Guild Wars 2

I’m still experiencing very poor drop rate quality and quantity, no matter where I play in the open world.

Even getting a green seems unusual for me these days. As for rares and exotics… forget it!

I understand that the discussion seems to have veered towards suggesting that it may be the DR mechanic that is at fault. But, I have wondered if many of us experiencing these poor drop rates have been openly critical of ANet on these forums?

I have a concern that because the game and forum accounts are linked, it may be possible for an unscrupulous company to covertly penalize those players that are repeatedly critical of them.

I appreciate that this may be tin foil hat territory. But, given ANets’ seeming contempt for players valid concerns (as evidenced in this thread and many others) I am finding it increasingly difficult to extend them the benefit of the doubt.

EDIT; Just because you’re not paranoid, it doesn’t mean they’re not out to get you!

@ Galen Grey… Thanks for the response. I’m a little stumped by your assumption that the Lost Shores/FoTM/vertical progression/Ascended Gear etc. are the source of my growing disillusionment with GW2. Could I suggest you check out my previous posts via my forum profile for the real reasons. Some of which actually go back to Oct. 7th. A date familiar to many Ranger players.

@ Tobias Trueflight…

Yes. I asked Galen Grey a couple of oblique, loaded questions. I chose not to use the words “conspiracy”, “manipulation” or “undercover employee”. You can nitpick all you want. I did not use them. No further discussion on the matter is warranted.

You “implied/suggested” yourself as possessing some insight when you responded to my question to Galen Grey in the following manner?

Tobias Trueflight.8350:

Crap! Galen, they’re onto us. Quick, remember Plan B and hope they don’t sniff out the names this time!

. . . Now onto seriousness.

Oh! My bad. Was that also sarcasm I detected in your reply? In which case the bonus points you refer to belong wholly with you. I’m not playing for points!

And as for plan Z!

Are you seriously telling me that only you and Galen Grey are allowed to play the “Men in Black” game! Doh!

Tobias if you wish to continue this conversation in this manner, please feel free to PM me.

@ Galen Grey…

If you don’t see any of the less positive changes since the beta weekends then as I wrote to Mirta earlier…. You don’t see them. That’s fine. I’m not going to argue for or against them with you. Any regular forum reader will be well acquainted with the discussions.

If you’re still experiencing (plan K) fun. All well and good. I’m happy for you. Many on the forums (myself included) appear to be experiencing (plan Z) a diminishing sense of fun!

Both experiences are entirely subjective. Both are equally valid.

I’m pleased that you understand the whole pattern thing and hence the reason for my initial questions to you. I prefer not to draw conclusions until I have sufficient information on which to base them. That’s why I ask questions.

@ Tobias Trueflight & Galen Grey…

Do you often find yourselves unconsciously dividing your responses to posts in such a seemingly coordinated manner?

Just kidding! Or am I? :-P

@ Gehenna…

Yep. Exactly what I thought and also part of what prompted my initial question to Galen Grey.

@Mirta… If you don’t see it… then you don’t see it! That’s fine.

I recall from another post of yours that you’ve been playing for about a month. Is that correct?

If so, then you probably have no direct experience of what GW2 was actually like for the first six weeks or so. This may be why you don’t see it. You’ve not known any different. But for many of us that participated in the Beta weekends and pre-release it seems to be more apparent.

@ Galen Grey… Thank you for answering my question.

A simple “no” would have sufficed. An answer that requires no mention of “conspiracy”, “manipulation” or the assumption that I think anyone that defends Anet is an “under cover employee”.

Your choice of words. Not mine.

In answer to your question; No. I do not think that anyone who thinks Arenanet are doing more right then wrong has to be an under cover employee.

But like many people, I observe patterns in the world around me. These patterns cause me to question things. When I question things, I seek answers. When I receive answers they help to inform me as to the validity or otherwise of the patterns I observe.

Pretty normal human behaviour as far as I can ascertain.

@ Tobias Trueflight… Thanks for your answer on Galens’ behalf.

@ Galen & Tobias.

With your evident love of plans perhaps you can tell me/us why, if plan K was fun… have ANet now dumped it for plan Z?

Plan Z being to suck the fun out of GW2 for many of it’s players one patch at a time.

@ OP. Snores. I am also worried about the direction being taken by Anet with GW2.

For a game that showed such promise on release, Anet seem to be making some very questionable decisions. The pattern of development many of us are seeing, leads us to make conclusions that may or may not prove to be correct in the long term.

So we continue to ask questions in the hope of answers. When we receive misleading responses, PR spin or silence, the overall pattern remains unresolved and we are left with more questions.

Which is why I personally have so many doubts about some of the posters on the forums who seem to have answers for everything!

@ Galen Grey… I remember another poster on these forums describing you as a “silver tongued apologist” for ANet. I have to say that I agree with their assessment entirely.

However having read many of your posts recently, I am seriously beginning to wonder if your defence of ANet in almost everything they do, actually goes way beyond this.

Possibly into the realms of community relations/support liaison?

Is your choice of user name more than a simple coincidence or a passing compliment to a certain member of ANets’ staff?

Nice story Inkubus…

You may like to check out this post;

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/gw2/Server-Populations/first#post703192

Server population shows number of accounts based on that server… not concurrent players online!

Thanks Mirta, but I don’t think that “event sponsorship & partnerships” are quite what you think they are in this context.

Please supply evidence to support your claims that these sponsors and partners are monitoring server populations, because I still haven’t seen any.

Your claims remain unsubstantiated.

“ArenaNet is proud to work with the best partners in the gaming industry to support Guild Wars 2 and to sponsor events and contests for our fans.”

https://www.guildwars2.com/en-gb/partners/

Thanks again, but “event sponsorship & partnership” still does not equal monitoring of server population caps.

Again sadly, I’m seeing no evidence to support your claims.

@ Mirta. Thanks for the links. But the link you supplied for sponsors, is for Guild Wars-Prophecies etc. NOT GW2.

http://www.guildwars.com/events/press/partners/default.php

Sadly, from the evidence you’ve supplied, your claims remain unsubstantiated, are merely hearsay and your assurances are meaningless.

Thanks for the reply.

@ OP. Yes. ANets’ ongoing moving of the goalposts (i.e. loot nerfs, DR etc.) are sucking the fun out of GW2 for me.

@ Mirta. You make a couple of interesting claims in some of your posts;

“low about 2000 people
med – between 5000 and 10 000 people
high is 10 000 people
full cap is about 15 000 or so me thinks.”

&

“they’re being both sponsored and monitored by other companies. If they had seen such fluctuation ArenaNet would get in a lot of trouble.”

Could you provide sources please? Otherwise these claims are merely hearsay.

Many thanks.

+1 from me OP. I agree entirely.

I played the original GW for about five years, on and off. I enjoyed it. I had fun! I had hoped that GW2 would have a similar longevity. Barely 3 months since release and it’s just not as much fun as it was. ANet are sucking the fun out of this game for me a step at a time.

I actually have to be really bored IRL to even feel like logging in anymore.

Please, please, please ANet…. put some of the fun back into GW2. Before it’s too late!

And Masaki, I think you’re probably right… Nexon!

ANets’ continued silence on the matter speaks volumes to me.

Intended nerf or unintentional bug? We’ve already bought the game. They have our money. They simply don’t care!

As another poster mentioned, ANet are treating us like mushrooms. keeping us in the dark and feeding us crud!

Unfortunately, like most modern corporate entities, ANets’ focus now seems to be on enticing new customers to buy their product. Rather than retaining existing customers trust and goodwill by the quality of their product, their support, communication and ongoing customer care.

Could these diminished loot drops be an unconscious reflection of the value that ANet now places on their customers?

I posted this a few days ago in;

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/gw2/What-is-Causing-People-Not-To-Play-GW2/860287

Diminishing returns… When I’m playing PvE, I want to feel that it’s actually worth it.

A month or so ago in the cursed shore, I was almost guaranteed to pick up one or more gold items an hour helping push my returns to somewhere between one to two gold an hour overall. In addition to karma, experience and crafting mats.

In a couple of hours in The Cursed Shore today… I got some experience, some karma, a few crafting mats, three goody bags, three salvage items, twenty or so porous bones, four or five spider legs, about ten white items, about ten blues and one… yes I repeat, one green item!

For a total value after sale to vendors of approximately thirty to forty silver!
All done without Magic Find gear… Which, whenever I’ve used it seems to make little or no difference anyway.

Overall I can safely say that to me, Orr is a chore! Even more so now than before.

It feels as if my lvl 80 toon, a professional hero… you know the one that beat Zhaitan and saved Tyria (with Trehearne hanging on my coat tails, stealing all the glory), has gone from earning a six figure salary to minimum wage!

If this is how Anet think that heroes should be valued in Tyria, then why should I bother! What’s in it for me? It’s not rewarding. It’s not fun!

I have to agree with plasmacutters’ original post and with his implied definition that a “real” player is a player that is not a bot!

Sorry Erasculio, but I disagree with your definition of what constitutes a real player; i.e. “those playing the game to have fun, as opposed to those grinding the game to farm.” Your definition appears to be based upon what you perceive to be fun. Others perception of fun is bound to different from yours… if farmers are having fun “their way” why should that be a problem?

Diminishing returns is a daft game mechanic that sucks as much fun out of the game for me personally as the bots ever did.

Agreed Astraea… and as the OP has removed the parts of his post that we have been discussing, it is no longer of relevance….

Re. your second point though, could I just refer you to the Businessweek article I linked to in an earlier post. It states that the share purchase was from the NCSoft chaiman himself.

Astraea.6075:

nic.5720:

DarcShriek… as reported earlier this year;

http://massively.joystiq.com/2012/06/08/nexon-invests-6-8m-in-ncsoft-becomes-largest-shareholder/

When 14.7% makes you the majority shareholder (i.e every other shareholder owns less than 14.7% of the shares) then you have a significant voice in the boardroom. You may still require 51% of shareholders to agree to major changes, but it does tend to make you the loudest voice in the room and when shareholders are after increased profits/dividends that counts for an awful lot!

14.7% may make them the largest shareholder, but they are still far short of a majority. They may get a seat or two in the boardroom of NCSoft, but it’s a stretch to imply from there that they get a direct say in operational matters of one of NCSoft’s subsidiaries.

I couldn’t agree with you more. But shareholders understandably want to see profits. I don’t believe that Nexon would have invested so heavily in NCSoft if they;

1) couldn’t see an opportunity to make a profit.
2) didn’t already have ideas/plans as to how to make those profits.
3) hadn’t already discussed the matter in depth with NCSoft and the board.

So, as a shareholder, if someone comes along with money to invest and concrete plans as to how to grow that investment and make profits, wouldn’t you be influenced?

I hate to admit it, because I loath corporatism with a passion, but I would certainly give them a chance.

Edit;

Just saw your latest edit re. the board of directors at NCSoft. Nice find! And as you say we will both have to look further to see if there is direct evidence of Nexon influence/membership of the board.

However, the Nexon/NCSoft/ANet connection is no conspiracy theory as arrownin seems to suggest in his original post.

Just as an aside though. ANet appointed a “monetisation manager” earlier this year who is an-ex Nexon employee. I won’t mention her name because the mods don’t like it. But it is easily found via google.

Whilst the timing maybe coincidental and entirely unconnected… how long do you think the negotiations for a $685 million deal take to negotiate? I genuinely don’t know. But I would suspect that we can agree it wasn’t an impulse purchase by Nexon?

DarcShriek… as reported earlier this year;

http://massively.joystiq.com/2012/06/08/nexon-invests-6-8m-in-ncsoft-becomes-largest-shareholder/

When 14.7% makes you the majority shareholder (i.e every other shareholder owns less than 14.7% of the shares) then you have a significant voice in the boardroom. You may still require 51% of shareholders to agree to major changes, but it does tend to make you the loudest voice in the room and when shareholders are after increased profits/dividends that counts for an awful lot!

here’s another link;

http://www.businessweek.com/news/2012-06-08/nexon-buys-685-million-stake-in-ncsoft-becomes-biggest-holder

Thanks for the appropriate link Serelisk… A post from ANet themselves carries so much more weight than the link from Wikipedia that I considered posting.

And Loic… I think that this is the post where Jon Peters suggests that there are only 2 designers working on class balance in GW2.

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/ranger/General-Patch-Discussion-merged/746290

I guess that it just goes to show that when it comes to wearing tin foil hats (and maybe even x-ray glasses), people that live in glass houses are advised not to throw stones!

So, whomsoever the cap fits….

You might like to know that;

“The company was acquired by NCsoft in 2002”

From information freely available on the interwebs!!!

Nice try arownin!

Oh well that’s sorted then! You say it must be so. So it must be so. Right?

Stating your opinion is fine. But to belittle other peoples’ valid concerns with suggesting their choice of headgear in such a way is immensely discourteous.

You may also like to do a little bit of homework before making strange claims in your posts.

e.g. Nexon are the majority shareholder (14.7%) in NCSoft. NCSoft own ArenaNet. ArenaNet make Guild Wars 2. I hope that the connection is clear to you.

I took a break from GW2 for about a month and have subsequently played for 4-5 hours over the last couple of days.

I’m not likely to play much anymore because;

1) Firing the Rangers’ shortbow (prior to Oct. 7th) used to feel like firing a machinegun… You know, mean, powerful and effective. Now it feels more like a flintlock! Even with Quickening Zephyr!

In addition, it’s evidently my own fault because I spammed 1, the Rangers’ shortbow auto attack all the time, which I’ve been told by Anet isn’t fun! It’s nothing to do with Anets choice of skills or design decisions for the Ranger shortbow skill bar! Is it?

2) The lack of serious efforts on the part of ANet to balance the professions. In particular the ones requiring the most attention… IMO Necromancer & Ranger. Whilst Warriors just seem to keep getting the most unnecessary buffs! e.g. 10% extra damage to longbow! Why?

3) ANets’ misdirected focus on poorly planned, poorly implemented and poorly balanced new content rather than on fixing the core elements of the game.

4) Diminishing returns… When I’m playing PvE, I want to feel that it’s actually worth it.

A month or so ago in the cursed shore, I was almost guaranteed to pick up one or more gold items an hour helping push my returns to somewhere between one to two gold an hour overall. In addition to karma, experience and crafting mats.

In a couple of hours in The Cursed Shore today… I got some experience, some karma, a few crafting mats, three goody bags, three salvage items, twenty or so porous bones, four or five spider legs, about ten white items, about ten blues and one… yes I repeat, one green item!

For a total value after sale to vendors of approximately thirty to forty silver!

All done without Magic Find gear… Which, whenever I’ve used it seems to make little or no difference anyway.

Overall I can safely say that to me, Orr is a chore! Even more so now than before.

It feels as if my lvl 80 toon, a professional hero… you know the one that beat Zhaitan and saved Tyria (with Trehearne hanging on my coat tails, stealing all the glory), has gone from earning a six figure salary to minimum wage! If this is how Anet think that heroes should be valued in Tyria, then why should I bother! What’s in it for me? It’s not rewarding. It’s not fun!

5) Reducing dynamic event frequency in the Cursed Shore. Particularly noticeable to me today. A month ago it felt that you ran from one DE to another with barely a pause. Today it just felt slow… so, so slow. Not dynamic at all! Not fun!

Again Orr = chore, so much more so than before.

6) The Lost Shores & update patch. FoTM, Southsun Cove, ascended gear/infusions, the introduction of vertical progression/content gating. Dividing the playerbase!

Despite years, yes years, of ANets’ assurances that there was no place for it in their game design philosophy and plans for GW2. Now, less than three months after launch, we have been presented with a gear treadmill based on grind. Which undoubtedly some may choose to view as fun, but many others, including myself, don’t!

Fractal of The Mists dungeon. Currently the only way in which to acquire the ascended gear. You know, the gear with better stats that ANet apologists keep telling people is purely optional.

The channeling of players into only one style of play as a means of acquiring the new tier of gear. Rather than the more balanced approach of making it available to everybody across all playstyles at the same time! If you really have to do it all?

Something that many would describe as the common sense, rather than piecemeal approach we’ve been presented with! Again, I’m not seeing much evidence of fun in this!

7) On the one hand we have Anets’ lack of constructive dialogue with the community and on the other hand we have, what some other forum posters have described as their “Orwellian moderation” of the forums. I agree and I have to say that this has also been a factor in my growing disillusionment with Anet over GW2.

8) The growing realisation that with Nexon having been the majority shareholder in NCSoft since June, the Anet of today is not the same Anet that we have been accustomed to over the last 7 years. Nexon need to make a profit on their massive investment and quickly! Guild Wars 2 is one of the means by which they intend to do so.

I believe that their influence on the direction of GW2 is becoming increasingly evident. And unless Anet, their metrics and the balance sheets are able to convince them otherwise, that the writing is on the wall for GW2.

Guild Wars 2 was fun for the first six or so weeks. Since then, somehow the Anet/NCSoft/Nexon trinity and their modified direction for GW2 is managing to drain most, if not all of the fun that existed out of this game for me. And if I’m not having fun anymore… I don’t play the game!

+1 OP I agree.

Something I hope that we can all agree on is that all of the posters on this forum (whether minority or majority/ or for and against etc. etc. etc.) are here because we care enough about GW2 to hold, express and hopefully discuss our opinions.

Of course, it’s generally more pleasant when it can be achieved without name-calling, flaming etc.

1. In GW1 – No Monthly fee.

-In GW2 – Yep. Can’t deny that they kept this.

2. In GW1 – Horizontal progression. Level 20 was fairly easy to get to and then it was all end game. Exploration. Searching for and acquiring new skills, new skins etc. Grind if you chose to do so!

- In GW2 – Getting to Lvl 80 was ok. Limited horizontal progression, new skins etc. if the grind for them was your thing… until the Lost Shores update of 15th Nov. Since then no! And the likelihood is that this model looks likely to continue.

3. In GW1 – Build variety based on skills and secondary professions etc.

- In GW2 – No! poor skill choices are limiting and lacking imagination. Poor build diversity.

4. In GW1 – Genuinely massive world to explore after leaving the starting areas. Most of it Lvl 20 which made it feel relevant and worth investing time in. Elite areas… the Underworld, FoW, Domain of anguish etc.

- In GW2 – Large world, but currently limited to only 3 lvl 80 zones (The Cursed Shore, Frostgorge Sound & now Southsun Cove). No Elite areas to speak of, unless you choose to describe FoTM as an elite dungeon? Less reason to revisit lower level areas.

5. In GW1 – Hard Mode & vanquishing. Endgame. Replayabilty… genuine reasons to revisit zone for loot and a challenge that scaled to your level. Possibly the one positive aspect of using instanced zones.

- In GW2 it can’t really be implemented because of the open world design. So no!

Something I didn’t like in either GW1 or GW2 is the whole anti farming/diminishing returns coding. Why! Just why? Sure, bots, gold sellers… I understand. But to allow it to impact on your legitimate players is just plain daft!

I play games to have fun. Somehow, the sense of fun is being/has been drained out of GW2 faster than I would have thought possible.

Hi Logun I just want to add my +1 for your OP. I wanted to play GW2 my way.

Although I haven’t played for about a month for a variety of reasons as I’ve posted about elsewhere;

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/gw2/How-many-here-are-playing-less-And-why/first

I can’t play my way anymore because GW2 no longer supports my choice of playstyle or profession (I mained a Ranger).

I believe that the substantial change of direction in GW2 is directly related to Nexon becoming the majority shareholder (14.7%) in NCSoft earlier this year. It seems increasingly likely that their influence on the board of directors in both NCSoft and ANet has usurped control of GW2 away from the visionary games designers and handed it over to the accountants.

“Under new management” sums it up!

Further to my previous post in this thread, I have now somewhat revised my opinion and reasons for no longer being the active GW2 player I was a month ago.

I no longer believe that ANet is in sole control of its’ own or GW2s’ destiny. And that Nexons’ 14.7% majority shareholding in ANets’ parent company NCSoft, is wholly responsible for the notable change of direction.

http://massively.joystiq.com/2012/06/08/nexon-invests-6-8m-in-ncsoft-becomes-largest-shareholder/

Majority shareholders may not have outright control of a companies day to day operations but they do exert significant influence in the boardroom and can be almost guaranteed a place on the board.

Without too much guesswork, it seems understandable that Nexon are looking to make a substantial return on their $687 million dollar investment. Who wouldn’t?

There is enough evidence to suggest that;

Guild Wars 2 was released earlier than ANet had originally intended because of Nexon pressure to recoup some of their substantial investment in NCSoft as quickly as possible. Ready or not!

The ANet design philosophy (as per the original manifesto) of horizontal progression, no gear grind etc. is not in keeping with the Nexon profitable business model of F2P, P2W, grind based gaming.

Now, for the more speculative part of my post.

Diminishing loot drops (despite claims to the contrary), more grind, vertical progression, expanded gem store, the seeming abandonment of the ANet manifesto within months of launch etc. all point to the Nexon influence in the boardroom having prevailed as the new corporate philosophy within NCSoft and ANet.

He, who pays the piper, calls the tune!

1. Who here, still come to forums but play the game much less?

- I visit the forums regularly in the search for some good news about GW2. But haven’t played at all in the last month or so.

2. When did you start playing less?

- As above, approximately a month ago.

3. Why / What caused the decline in time spent?

- I ran a Ranger as my main character for more than 400 hours and the stealth short bow nerf of 7th October struck me as a worrying sign of things to come.

In particular the inept handling of the situation by Anet (damage control courtesy of Jon Peters) and the subsequent wave of censoring legitimate debate on the forums by the moderators left an increasingly bad taste in my mouth.

Further messages from Jon Peters suggested that the Ranger profession was due some substantial attention from the Devs. The 15th November patch contained the fruits of their labours. For those who play the Ranger profession I suspect that no further elaboration is required. For anybody else that may be intrigued, please just check out the Ranger sub-forum.

Furthermore of course, we now have the one time events, the lost shores, the FoTM dungeon and the ascended gear treadmill/vertical progression fiasco….

I’m just seeing the same pattern of responses from Anet that I saw over a month ago. Limited communication. Damage control/PR. Censorship and the stifling of legitimate debate on the forums… etc. etc. etc.

I’ve been an Anet customer since 2007 with GW1. I bought, Factions, Nightfall, Eye of the North and I spent money in the online shop. I carried a lot of optimism and good will towards Anet into GW2. Only to have seen Anet do all that they can to squander that brand loyalty and goodwill within three months of launch.

I will never buy another Anet product again.

Thank you, Jon Peters for responding to the hordes of Ranger requests for some communication from the devs. It is genuinely appreciated, even if only in the sense that we now know that the Ranger profession is still a work in progress rather than just being passed over in favour of the other professions.

I look forward to seeing the changes detailed in forthcoming game updates and hope that they manage to put some of the fun back into playing the Ranger profession in GW2.

See how easily pleased drowning men clutching at straws can be!

Edit; However, as others have mentioned… I think it wise to wait and see what happens before we let Anet & the Devs off the hook. Actions speak far louder than words!

I just thought a few quotes from interviews with Mike O’Brien, President and Co-founder of ArenaNet might be of some interest and relevance to the discussion;

“We want people to enjoy the game so much that they bring in friends and hang out year after year,” said O’Brien.

Pasted from <http://www.forbes.com/sites/johngaudiosi/2012/04/23/arenanet-founder-mike-obrien-will-be-satisfied-when-guild-wars-2-is-the-most-successful-mmo-period/>;

“We’re building the genesis of a world that has a foundation resting on the importance of community and innovation. We’re going to continue to try to break through boundaries and exceed expectations.”

“We’re doing everything we can to meet and exceed expectations….. We’re confident about the work we do because we do have a support network for our community. The key to success is making this world special.”

“It’s not easy to make these kinds of games, but if you have the infrastructure and tools to get feedback regularly, it becomes a powerful tool. We have a very passionate fan base and when there are things that become clear that need to be addressed, we’ll fix it and make things better. We value their opinions.”

Pasted from <http://www.forbes.com/sites/johngaudiosi/2012/06/28/arenanet-founder-mike-obrien-discusses-guild-wars-2-mmo-launch-on-august-28/>;

How well do you think the Devs are doing with regards to the Ranger profession?

Yep, I’ve gotta agree as well. OP reflects my opinion on this matter quite ably. Please Anet… at least say something! Your continuing silence is doing your reputation immeasurable damage.

I think we’re all confused. We wanted to play the Ranger profession in GW2… but Anet really wants us to play ranged warriors.

Why, oh why did they even bother with the Ranger profession if they were going to treat it as a token class?

If I’d known that this was what they thought of the profession… I would never have bothered buying the game.

Anet. Is Homer Simpson running things for you? Doh!

I think that we were left out because Anet is embarassed by us!

We called them out over their deceptive update notes of 7th Oct. and refused to just take what we were given and comply like good little players. We have dared to question their integrity and have been too vocal in expressing our opinions.

Nobody likes to be caught out in public. Anet are no different.

I think a subversive viral internet campaign is a great idea…

Nothing anyone posts in this sub-forum seems to get through to anyone at Anet.

It really is a crying shame.

I agree with OP.

Any response to the customers in the Ranger sub-forums would be better than the facepalms we’ve been receiving so far.

Anet display a very poor sense of what engaging with the (Ranger) community means.

-1 to Anet.

Fellow Rangers… the evil in Tyria is real and it ain’t Zhaitan!

There is a greater evil that lurks in the very fabric of this world… and we Rangers, due to our great affinity with nature are amongst the first to recognise this. Due to this rising awareness, those dark powers seek to weaken the Ranger, to silence their voices and diminish their standing within the Tyrian community.

Unheard and ignored by their creators, unwelcomed and outcast in their own land. Welcome to the GW2 Ranger!

Busted! LOL

Thanks for the kind words Duncan. .

Like real Rangers everywhere I try to tell it how I see it rather than just give in and maintain the status quo. Whether Anet and others like to admit it or not, we dissenting voices are part of the community too. And Anets’ current way of dealing with us seems somewhat akin to shooting the bearers of bad tidings. Short sighted and ultimately counter productive.

In the meantime: “viva la revolution” … the Rangers are revolting!

I think Anet are probably very concerned and surprised at all of the negative feedback they’re receiving from players here on the forums. Locking and deleting the threads that threaten their view of themselves and GW2 shows a worrying sense of corporate insecurity. An inability to laugh at themselves, or to let others to laugh at them, suggests to me that they’re on the defensive and feeling very threatened by some of the opinions so ably expressed on the forums.

I’ve been an Anet customer for more than five years. I bought Guild Wars, Factions, Nightfall, Eye of the North, character slots, storage panes and other upgrades from the in game store.

Anet has done more to damage their own reputation in these forums since Oct. 7th than they managed in the previous five years. And their attitude has done more to take the fun out of GW2 for me, than any of the bugs and poor design ever could.

Consumers inevitably vote with their wallets and on that basis I am unlikely to be giving them any more of my money.

As barruktp says in the first post here, “Nevermind, I’m sure this thread will be locked as well…”

You’ve got to laugh!

“When humor goes, there goes civilization.”
- Erma Bombeck

“Humor is something that thrives between man’s aspirations and his limitations. There is more logic in humor than in anything else. Because, you see, humor is truth.”
- Victor Borge

“Resistance is useless.”
- Douglas Adams

Good luck with your future gaming in GW2 whatever character profession you choose to play from now on. I hope that you can have fun your way, rather than just the Anet way!

Just having checked the references again… the two class names were originally “marksman” and “warden”… my bad.

I seem to remember reading about this in a number of interviews, but a couple of quick refs for you should suffice;

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/suggestions/Remake-Ranger/75768

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http://tap-repeatedly.com/2011/06/exclusive-interview-arenanets-jon-peters-and-jonathan-sharp/

&

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Ranger

@ Fate. I respect your choice to “make the best of a bad deal.” I think it’s great. Good on you. But I can’t blithely go along with it. A bad deal is a bad deal, however you choose to look at it.

And as for nitpicking over semantics? Really? Is that what you think I was doing? Thanks, but I’ll leave the nitpicking to those that demonstrate a real flair for it. “Whom the cap fits…”

Anets’ own definition of the Ranger profession is the nearest thing that we, the playerbase have to a set of stated design goals from the devs. And I may well have quoted selectively, but it didn’t seem necessary to quote the whole paragraph.

Please choose to interpret my posts as you wish… Your interpretation of my meaning and/or intent, do not make it so, however…

@Carighan. If you had researched the Ranger profession in GW2, you would already know that Anet originally designed both the Archer and Beastmaster professions. And that the current GW2 Ranger profession is an amalgam of the two. Sadly the result is not particularly good at either!

FYI my opinion on what defines the Ranger here;

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/ranger/Range-Philosphy/429221

I’m pleased that the OP acknowledges the unacceptable nature of the nerf to the SB Crossfire & QZ skills. Though he tactfully avoids mentioning Anets’ utter lack of integrity regarding the issue.

I agree with the OP that many of the bugs with the Ranger profession will (probably) be dealt with in time and that some patience is required.

However,

I cannot agree with the OP that the current problems with the Ranger profession are down to large numbers of players “doing it wrong” or that he has any special insight on how to play the Ranger Profession “properly.”

All players regardless of ability (or lack thereof) are constrained by having to operate within the skills and trait framework provided by Anet/the Devs.

The problem is that the existing skills and trait framework are the direct result of poor design, implementation and subsequent modification/updates by the devs.

I do not agree with the OP’s claim that Rangers are “experts” at control, mobility and support. Perhaps we should be? But currently… not.

I am also unable to concur with the OP’s conclusions. According to Anet;

“Unparalleled archers, rangers are capable of bringing down foes from a distance with their bows. "

Unparalleled archers? Hardly!

Bringing down foes from a distance with their bows? How? Oh yes… that would be via dealing damage to the target. A concept that the OP seems to think is beyond the remit of the Ranger profession and best left to others.

The OP’s post is simply another thread attempting to shift responsibility for the current state of the Ranger profession in GW2 from the devs/Anet to the players and their perceived failure to play the profession in the way in which the OP believes it is meant to be played.

I thought that we were meant to be able to play any profession in GW2 our way!

I conclude that the problem lies with the poor design of the Ranger profession rather than with us the players.

A little integrity and courtesy to your customers goes a long way. I’ve not seen any evidence of either so far.

But all they ever respond with is “respect my authorita”!

I’m glad it’s not just me.

The great Anet Anti-Ranger conspiracy…..

On a more serious note, I see that the thread re. the closing of the now infamous 40ms thread appears to have been deleted entirely.

Another facepalm to Rangers from Anet.

Way to go Anet!

“The Guild Wars 2 Forums are intended to provide Guild Wars 2 players with a friendly environment to exchange information, get the latest news, share community-created content, interact with ArenaNet staff members, and discuss Guild Wars 2 with other members of the community. "

Sorry DocMed, you’re trying to place the emphasis for improving the Ranger profession onto us the players… the real emphasis on improving this profession lies squarely with the game devs / Anet.

Most of us want to see more and varied viable builds for this profession in both PvE and PvP. What we’re seeing is a decreasing number of viable builds for the Ranger. That’s the wrong direction for most of us.

I’m beginning to wonder, do you work for Anet?

18) King Adelbern. Death of his son, annihilation of his kingdom and eternal damnation as a ghost aside, his elite forces include a pair of horny teenagers and the kind of ranger who names his pets “Fang” and “Shadow.”

- What’s wrong with a ranger calling their pet shadow? The truth is a shadow would do more damage to a moving target than a pet does at the moment!

Yes, I have a ranger with a jaguar pet named shadow!

Doombunny, you’re absolutely correct. I dug out my old (1978 – yes I’m that old) copy of the AD&D Players Handbook the other day and read;

“Rangers are a subclass of fighter who are adept at woodcraft, tracking, scouting, infiltration and spying”

I’ve been playing rangers/ranger type characters in games since then and consider the class to be well suited to both my temperament and real life experiences.

Interestingly AD&D contains no specific mention of rangers being either archers or beastmasters! Theses both seem to be later additions to the original fantasy ranger paradigm (e.g. Tolkiens character Aragorn).

Whilst, personally I have always felt that bows are an appropriate (not defining) weapon for a ranger, I have wondered where the stereotypical view of the ranger as being a beastmaster came from and why?

In GW1, one of the first things I did as a ranger character was dump my pet in favour of different skills. I suspect many other players did the same. Quite why Anet used this as the professions defining mechanic is beyond me.

Back on topic though, the ranger whilst a capable archer should really be defined by the use of his movement, stealth, survival and woodlore skills. More of a fast moving, stealthy, lightly equipped scout/skirmisher somewhat like Rogers Rangers, the Canadian Coureur de Bois, the American Mountain Man, the WWII/Modern Ranger etc.

However the OP does have a point in that according to Anets own definition of the ranger class we should be “unparalleled archers” in GW2.

It’s clear that we are not.

Bindi Sureshoot, lvl 80, just hanging out in the Cursed Shore…

Finally managed to get in to the forums. Yay!

Only for my first post to be that of another disgruntled ranger adding my voice to all of the others that have been protesting the stealth nerf of 7th October.

Put quite bluntly, I’m incredibly disappointed by Anets’ approach to the whole issue. It seems that when other professions get nerfed, at least Anet has enough respect for those customers to admit openly that’s what they’re doing. Why do they feel that the customers that choose to play the Ranger profession deserve any less?

I feel very disillusioned with Anet at the moment.

I do use all of the shortbow skills available to me and rely on constant movement, traps, QZ/RaO (when required) and situational awareness to keep my toon out of trouble. I’d like to be able to rely on my pet too… but we all know how risky can be…

Regardless, I was enjoying playing my Ranger, even with this alleged graphical glitch when combined with QZ. It was fun. Now, less so.

If Anet truly want Rangers to stop having to spam the #1 Crossfire auto attack skill for the shortbow… then they need to provide us with the means to do so. Not nerf the single skill in the shortbow skill set that enables us to maintain a consistent damage output!

C’mon Anet. You could do better!