Guild Wars 2

In all respect nakoda, the so called “hardcore-tpvp-players” aren’t upset with hotjoin and its function to get ppl into the game or ppl that want to have fun. It’s more about the fact playing hotjoin provides a faster rank-gain than tournament-play, which is a silly reward-system and also destroys the whole rank-concept.

milo.6942:

hey, while we’re on the topic of builds, I’m looking for a trustworthy website resource on pvp and pve builds. googling for gw2 builds seems to give many outdated results (often from beta periods). there are many builds scattered on youtube as well. is there 1 site in particular that has a good collection?

http://www.teamparadigm.net/guides

Here are some (older) builds explained. Not all classes but a good start.

JonPeters.5630:

<tease> I think you guys will be waiting less time than most of you think. </tease>

Your comments amuse me, they do really. We are waiting for about 4 months now. We have to wait really less time than we think? Instead of 8 months it’ll be 6? Mother of God!

Coast.5162:

So it took like 1 year for gw2to have a smaller pvp than gw 1 currently has after 8+ years of neglection, such quality.

Ferik.3127:

Gandarel.5091:

Barret.4095:

make it so that you can buy all the weapon and armor skins purchasable with glory as well. like for example having the basic starting looking armor as the cheapest and the exotics and cultural armors being the more expensive ones. and this goes for weapon skins as well. it’ll give people something to work towards.

I’m sure these will be gem items.

And the gear systeam you are talking about is already in the game from an r1-80 scale. r1=worst

r80=cultural

No, the R1~80 is not rating any relevant scale. Hardly anyone could ever purchase the gears above rank 40s because the amount of grinding required is beyond reasons.

As a PvP game, players SHOULD be rewarded based on their skills. Now we’re locked in the state that we have no choice but to grind the 1 only way up toward the linear rank system. There is NO progression-based-on-skills, which violates the very fundamental of PvP.

I would be content if ANet make R80 gears cost 10,000 Glory each piece and available to players even at R1. AT LEAST we’d have a direction to work toward.

Now, it just seems that I would NEVER get those R60+ gears I wanted because considering my play-time everyday, they are simply 2 or even 3 years away!

In all respect, but whoever thinks that gear and other cosmetics defining the incentive for PvP, haven’t actually understand the structure of it at all. PvP is about competition, it’s about prestige symbols and it has to be equally challenging and rewarding.

I doubt PPL would play PvP longtime if T3 would be available at R50. What’s next, when they hit R50? ……..Exactly, there is the real incentive of PvP.
So to all Gear-Fetishists out there: please stop with your cosmetic-BS and your “I cant reach R80, it’s soooo hard”-BS, because this has nothing to do with the idea of PvP-incentive in general.

There has to be something to make melee weapons reasonable.
I’d suggest some sort of immunity to slowing conditions (cripple, chill) while using a gap-closer. So engage a fight means you actually can retreat and meanwhile you are also able to land your cap-closers.
Don’t know why the warrior still has no access to this, as gap-closers are so important for every melee class (or ports / shadowsteps in the case of the thief).

Funny idea.
Though the warriors problems don’t rely on its downstate, but rather on its sustain and the concept of this melee-class in general. EG: no protection, no efficient condition remove, heavily affected by chill/cripple because they can’t land their gap-closers anymore.

If a warrior is slowed once he won’t do damage for its duration. Basically this is the issue why warriors can’t be on the same level as other classes.

It’s strange when you got a leaderboard without visible ratings. This leads to the following question: Why invisible rating, when the system works proper? I come to the same answer as Authority: Something in the system is flawed.

Wow… there are ppl that actually care about soloQ ladder? really?

Tyler Chapman.1832:

Ele should technically be in a much better spot come the feature build.

Pretty anxious not gunna lie..

Looks like you start buffing classes again. The biggest mistake your development has done / is doing and probably will never understand.

Give up Henry, it doesn’t matter what you bring up as an argument. Too many ppl on this forum think too one-sided. Mostly because they only look from a one-class-perspective or because they choose to ignore bad skill-design.

“It doesn’t affect the meta” or “I played it and I failed, so it must be underpowered and useless”. If I read such things I have to facepalm myself for stupidity. I hope you realize in 2 months when staff ele gets buffed, that this trait will change to a real threat. Besides that it is just a horrible hardcounter (if it’s played or not doesn’t matter), but it seems like you are not able to think further and in bigger patterns.

deathshroud, putting marks below you, dodging and other stuff helps.

Stop capslock-ing thread-titles!

good to know. So the upcoming futures will be released when? 2015? Perfect!

Qaelyn.7612:

I understand the argument. I guess I just see an equally viable one, that what happens on the very high end affects only a tiny percentage of players and so it makes more sense from a business standpoint not to orient the game around them.

Especially a game like this one that is intended to be easy to pick up.

What you call “scrubs” Arenanet calls “paying customers”. The top 100 PvPers aren’t any more important to the bottom line than any other 100 players. I’m not saying their needs should be ignored, just not prioritized.

Specifically, making game balance decisions in a casual game that tick off 10,000+ players because of game balance issues that affect 100 players is bad management. Many of the proposed changes in this thread fall into that category.

The game can be easy to pick up, that’s not the problem when you balance around high-tier. But the skill-ceiling should be high enough to reward dedicated players. That’s what happens in LoL or Smite for example. Any Player can start and have fun, the basics are easy to understand. Play it for a week and you are able to perform well. But at the very high-end players can reach a high level of play, which casuals can’t reach.

This is not possible in GW2. Either you play an easy meta-build like the spirit-ranger or the hambow-warrior and reach the maximal potential of the class after 2-3 days, or you stay on your favorite class, which isn’t in the meta.
I see mesmers with experience of over a year of permanently playing PvP, loosing on-point to a warrior, which has played the class 1 week and is able to perform better than the mesmer. That’s the main problem of the not existing skill-ceiling. These easy-to-play-builds are more effective and worthier than any experience of a player. That’s what happening when you balance around casuals. They don’t have enough experience, but still wanna compete. They have not the knowledge of the skill-ceiling of the classes, which high-tier-players bring.

And that has nothing to do with elitism. This scheme is existing in every Sport. The rules are adapted to the best. In Soccer for example, the casuals (the majority) could say the goal is too small, because they are too bad to shoot precise enough. But the Sport wouldn’t be attractive and competitive anymore with a Goal, that is twice as big. I hope you get what I want to say.

Archaon.6245:

seems i’m the only one still playing 0 0 10 30 30 with double shout and consecration u.u

i have to agree that skills needed to play bunker guardian (Or anything else btw) are not even comparable with skills needed to go monk in gw1 gvg\ha, you needed years to get to a good level with monk while here an average guardian can already be effective after one week, with ah even less cause all you have to learn is how to move and support teamfights..staying alive is not a problem with that

Sadly A-Net chose to vanish active-support and replaced it with heavy class-independence and passive play.

ThatShortGuy.4672:

Empathetic Fighter.2065:

marnick.4305:

Tombing was indeed the best PVP I’ve ever played. It’s was good on so many levels. The only thing missing was solo join option (briefly existed)

If SoloQ for HA would be available back in times, it would have been so huge.

I honestly don’t remember solo joining a team ever existing, but maybe my memory sucks. I can see why it wouldn’t work though. We have the same problem with soloQ right now: a PUG getting rolled by a premade team.

It’s a nice thought, but in GW2’s case, that’s why we have hotjoin. Rank discrimination was a big pet peeve to many PvP newbies in GW1 so ArenaNet gave us a place to go and “farm” rank points PUG vs PUG.

The problem back in HA was that unranked players were dhummed to search for other unranked groups. I think with a solo-join, they could have met together much better. When I started I couldn’t find a group most of the times. Many unranked-players were driven away by that, because standing for 1 hour there and can’t find a group is not really fun.

Back to GW2, the major problem is that solojoin akka hotjoin is a better way to farm your rank than in the more skilled tournaments. I don’t have any problem to let casuals farm their rank, but it’s not healthy that these grinders have faster rank progression than successfull tournament-teams. That takes incentive away from competitive PvP.

dead game is dead

I’m dissapointed you didn’t change anything about the healing-signet. We know warrior need defense in order to be a melee. However, Healing-Signet creates a very passive and cheesy play. It’s boring to see bad warriors are able to perform that well, just because they have an utility in their slot with such a high impact and which doesn’t require no skill in order to succeed.

You should really start to focus and reduce the passive play to bring up the fun-factor of this game. It is not fun to play against Minion-Mancers, CC-Warriors or Spirit-Rangers. All people hate these cheesy builds . . .

papaganoosh.7908:

I think that this is the first time in a long time that all classes are viable in some way, shape or form.

That being said I think the current AoE Condi cleave meta is terrible and not fun to play.

I see a bit of a contradiciton in this post.
However, I would call 6 classes viable, 1 class not viable and 1 class dictating what ppl have to reroll.

A-Net better reduces the amount of AoE-Skillz, instead of nerfing retaliation due to AoE-spammers complaining about it.

This thread reached a whole new level of “worst mmr-screenshots” ever. Seems like humans found the 8th wonder of the world.

I miss the balance before the necro-buff. Teams could actually run a wider spectrum of setups than nowadays. Even with the patch yesterday, many ppl are still forced to play classes, they wouldn’t play without these changes. I hope we can get to the point where ppl can actually freely choose their comp, without being influenced of the meta. Also the meta should not be based around a class, as it is now the case with necro. The only class since release, which kept staying in the meta is the guard. However, I don’t see the guard to be a problem, as there is no way to abuse this class, especially not in stacking it.

Furthermore heavy condition spam is in my opinion not very well placed in this game. There is no stat that counters conditions. Toughness was usefull against power-damage and this relation between those stats was really interesting. For conditions it is not.

You’re build is not in any sense viable for tournament play. You don’t have any defense at all. On a second note scholar runes on warrior are as useless as the vaporform from the vampire-runes. Before you even engage a teamfight you will be under 90% for sure. You can consider yourself lucky if by then you’re still alive.
But hey, that 13k killshot was definitely worth it. Escape a teamfight without condition cleanse? No problem at all. Just use whirlwind and rush to get away. Oh wait… cc/slows! Anyway, who cares about that, big numbers always win, am I right?

Skyhammer literally forces you to quit soloq.

Who invited the philosophers into this forum?

The advantage of CS-GO? It’s just a copy-paste from its predecessor. That’s the point where GW2 already failed.

What brings you stability when you get melted by conditions? Besides that you give up a dmg-utility (which provides also stunbreak). So you stay there casting stability to not get CC’ed while doing no dmg. I doubt any team would like to have such a player.

You missspelled the thread-title. It should be “PvP” instead of “Hotjoin”

You can’t take this thread serious anymore. I mean every class will change in upcoming patches, can be this year, can be next year. What Jon is saying is like the rest we can read from them, which in every text you see the words “soon”, “upcoming”, “we take a look at it”, We are working on it", “we release it when it’s done”, “we can’t say when, but it definitely will be done” etc.

In terms of damage, burning would have been enough to fullfill their collection of conditions they have access to. Also the problem with necro was his survivability and defense/stun-breakers in general. His damage before patch was allrdy fine.
But that’s happening when developers try to balance a class, without an idea of its state.

Muramasma.1570:

alcopaul.2156:

Muramasma.1570:

the game simply must be a sublime experience. This is the first step towards what you, as well as everyone else here, wants. I would advise you stop trying to skip this step, because it will only bring failure.

It was sublime on our part (my part at least) because we used one build to build different build setups. It’s not all IWAY versus IWAY match, mind you, especially in GvG. We are the only IWAY on upper top 50s. (Highest rank that the guild got on GvG was rank 8. I just read in this old thread in our forums. Good thing that we documented our GoTW correspondences)

http://yourmathteacher.myfreeforum.org/ftopic300-0-asc-15.php

No no no, you missed my point entirely. I’m not talking about GW1 here at all, let alone [MATH]. I’ve already told you I had nothing against your guild back in the day (mostly because I never had any trouble facing IWAY whatsoever), nor did I even reference it in my post. I can understand you’re quick to jump to your guns, but drop it for once and focus on the discussion at hand.

I simply wish to show you that you’re 100% correct in that efame is the greatest sought reward from competitive PvP; something you’ve been yammering on about for god knows how long, and something that I’ll be the first to agree with you on. However, the point I was making is that the desire for efame is something that comes naturally with in an amazing game; and countless PvPers have found GW2 to be rather lackluster. This is why many of us wish to see a focus on making gameplay the best it can be, rather than focusing on the things that are much better left for AFTER this is done.

Agree, but progression and “the-better-you-play-the-better-your-reward-is”-Mentality are or should be the priorities for every PvP. When the game is amazing it helps for sure. (In the case of GW2 that’s for sure not the problem, because it is pretty solid)

At the beginning ppl played it and got entertained for achieving things. But after the champion-title, which could be done easily in a week and could be farmed also in solo-join, ppl got bored of farming rank-points for a rank that can be done faster by playing hotjoin. PPl started to not feel rewarded enough for playing competitive. Many players asked what the point is of playing something competitive when playing casual will reward you more. Then QP’s came and there was a little effort of playing in paid-tournaments. Sadly, A-Net kittened it up again. Now as we have CA’s atleast we can do it on our own. But besides some ppl watching you on twitch, there’s nothing more about it.

ensoriki.5789:

PSX.9250:

Empathetic Fighter.2065:

Destiny.6738:

Gandarel.5091:

Destiny.6738:

Romek.4201:

arenanet care toooooo much for e-sport

Don’t use these two words in one sentence, at least not in GW2.

They care about e-sports, but not developing PvP.

There is no e-sport, without developing PvP in this case.

That’s why it is not considered yet as an E-Sport. :O

Sorry but this game will never be an “e-sport”, they are incapable of balancing the professions. Such a shame how Anet went from GW1 to GW2.

There were tons of imbalance in GW1 as well.
Assassin’s were known to phase in and out of the game for months at a time.

GW1 wasn’t affected by imbalance as heavy as GW2, due to dedicated healers/prots. They balanced the imbalance to a certain degree.

If I’m not false you pointed out the classes in 1v1 situations. That’s just my impression. In the most cases I feel a bit the same way. But you should also consider what all the classes can do in teamfights.

Guardian: Allrdy said is a support. Besides that it’s the best revive class if specced as bunker at least. In 3v3+ a needful matchwinner.

Elementalist: Nothing to add.

Engineer: Not much build-variety there. High dps output and a big pressure in teamfights. Highrange acces through grenades. (got popular in spirit watch) Uncountable bugs with this class.

Mesmer: With Portal and Timewarp a strong class. Effective in teamfights due to stuns, immobillizes, fast aoe bursts and again Timewarp. Good in defending nodes due to portal mobility. Squishy.

Necromancer: Heavy teamfighter, with marks and aoe-rezz. If not distracted by others he is dominating node-fights. Due to plague and deathshroud able to survive. Lacks of mobility.

Ranger: Good in 1v1 fights due to constant pressure and ranged attacks. No AoE dmg makes ranger not a dedicated teamfighter. Good for speed-stomps. Pet that follows the enemy through half of the map and makes some pretty good dmg.

Thief: Best burst. In 1v1 pretty useless if not able to surprise insta-kill. Has hard times in tpvp due to the bunker meta. Addicted to stealth, otherwise an easy target that drops in seconds. In teamfights hard to play due to AoE..

Warrior: A good teamfighter with GS. Can’t be left allone because he will loose every 1v1. Not enough condition remove. High dmg output if able to hit. Other builds than 100b not existing.

Please don’t argue with sarcasm.

The development has clearly no idea what to do with this game. Also they refuse to cooperate with the community and especially with ppl that have an idea about the game. Otherwise they wouldn’t move in a circle for 2 years . . .

Oh… Guildwars 2 is now in Beta-Version? I thought it’s still Alpha.
With Custom-Arenas it will be definitely Beta-State, so nvm.

The patch had defintely improvements.
However, the huge lack of risk-reward and a non-existent skill-floor making the game for every average pvp-player a nightmare. The time spent into PvP is not necessary anymore, you can roll the meta and you’ll win.

So I guess Team-PvP will be dead till Janaury, when the reward-system will be released. Sad to see such potential being wasted due to a development-strategy for casuals, while desperately trying to make this game an E-Sport.
Are you even aware of the fact that an E-Sport has to be competitive, therefore needs a high enough skill-ceiling? Because what you do now is trying to be an E-Sport while trying to get as much causals as you can get. This strategy leads to a mess, or what we call ingame: “The Meta”

No class needed anymore. We have allrdy enough class-imbalances. As you only PvE i guess you won’t understand that, but classes in PvP are freaked up balance wise.

RoRo.8270:

I would have preferred the alliance system that guild wars 1 had. I have been harassed many times over representing.

Try to deny the grind in a MMO is just silly, because there is no way around it. The grind or in general, the progression of yourself is the reason why you keep playing a game. To actually give an incentive to progress, the challenge-reward scale has to be fixed though. This means if I kill a champion or do a content that requires some more skill (eg. dungeons (except CoF)), I should be rewarded for it. Sadly this is not the case. Furthermore farming spots shouldn’t be nerfed in terms of loot, it would be better to actually just make it harder for players to farm these spots. These can be area effects or scale-up mob-strenght etc.

For EG: In GW1 they implemeted a counter for UWSC with SF-Sins. They placed enemies over the whole map who could hit through SF. Problem solved.

A-Net: Company that needs a kittening month to do something that a 15-year old with a bit of game-understanding could do in one day. Pathetic development, no excuses on this!

CntrlAltDefeat.1465:

Empathetic Fighter.2065:

CntrlAltDefeat.1465:

So buff to necro, then debuff to necro..makes perfect sense. Not whack-a-mole at all. Slow clap.

This is what happening when not adjusting balance by the help of actual top-class players, but by ppl that play on isolated test-servers without any clue of competitive play. (Some SOTG responses of devs prooves their heavy lack of understanding)

Forget top class players. They don’t make up the bulk of the players in guild wars 2. Focus on the every day player. Top class will always play their game and theorycraft their way. They live in a walled garden of 5 people who know each other well, use vent, assign roles and secondary duties etc etc..when advancing the field of medicine..you focus on what works best on the masses..highly specialised neuro surgeons will always develop their own techniques in their community. At the moment most tpvp players at some stage cut their teeth first in spvp. Again..focus on the grass roots..not the tall poppies that occasionally grow here and there.

All in all though..I totally agree with you. Closed test servers and playing in isolation without taking a few vetted volunteers is detrimental..especially considering there is 1..maybe only 2 people balancing this whole game in pvp.(And potentially guild wars 1 as well) You have people glamouring to give you feedback..use the resource whilst it is there and offering it’s time for free.

The problem I experienced with “casual” players (what I also see on forums) is that they call for nerfs or buffs because they have problems with certain skillz or classes and lack of general understanding in terms of mechanics.

EG: Shatter-Mesmer: If you know the mechanic and when to dodge it gets much easier for you. Casual players sometimes don’t know how to, therefore call the class overpowered and want nerfs. Same goes for BS-Thieves.
If you look into the history of this forum you see SOOO many nerf-this-class-topics due to lack of knowledge.

(This comment is not intended as flaming or any sort of that nature, just my personal experience and the resulting opinion of it)

SvenskNavi.9378:

So far these suggestions for loots are a little too hopeful.. You guys realize the world bosses only drop a guaranteed rare right? And if you look at how often people are killing champions in Queensdale, you can quickly see how getting those kinds of drops that often is way too much.. I’d vote for maybe an increased chance at getting a rare (not 100% obviously, but maybe 30% chance), but anything more would make champions way too good of a way to make money.

Scale the loot to the level of the champion. Champions in low-level areas are too easy, so they shouldn’t have the same rate as an 80’champion.

The population of PvE is fine (decreased a bit)
The population of PvP is dissapeared (about 90% left)

Lordrosicky.5813:

Just reset both leaderboards every month, get a proper decay system with no removal of decay when people play again (decay starts after a day) and declare monthly winners on this basis.

There you have it. Mabye we can expect something like this in 2014 if we’re lucky.

The most balanced class in my opinion is the guard. He can either specc into support/bunker (several different builds) and has also viable hybrid and damage builds. Why? Because this class has a lot of “viable” traits.

I’d like to see other classes in the same spot. It’s ridiculouse that after 10 months nearly all classes have more than 75% garbage-traits, not even PvE-Players use. A-Net should better focus on actually buffing unused traits and utilities rather than nerf the better ones.

Chaos armor got a bug-fix = buff