Guild Wars 2

The whole PvP is a slap in the face

Online-Poker…oh wait

Well, the ele is one of the classes that actually have a “decent” skillfloor. A class that needs to be played intelligent. Ele has (besides of the Air-attunement and the arcane-utilities) pretty good animations, which can be, just by looking at which attunement the ele is on, predicted. This actually gives some room of counter-play. For an example, dodging updraftes / spikes or start to burst after he switched off from water-att. and so on. Also the ele has some sort of combos he rolls. It’s not only spamming buttons on cd. Burst-eles were a good mix of risk-reward play and needed besides timing a good awareness of the combat-situation.

All these things make the elementalist a class that is well fitted. The reason why many ppl have the impression this class needs a “fix” or an “update” is, that the meta nowadays is just a complete mess (described by you) and shows on how many areas this game has big issues (AoE, instant casts, animationproblems, AI, spam in general, passive traits/abilites and so on…).

However, the right way to fix is not to adapt a class to the rest of them, but to look at the game overall and see the problems on the core-mechanics. PPl need to get that!

samo.1054:

The video I posted is just a small proof that MMO CAN be e-sport. One of the main problems GW1 hasn’t developed a well known, strong e-sport would probably be that team size in GvG was 8, which is really hard to pull off. WoW pvp also was not developed with e-sport in mind, and to be perfectly honest, WoW pvp compared to GW1 pvp was just a joke.

Ironic tho, Anet advertised GW2 as a future e-sport game, however what they did not tell us is that this game was actually developed as a pve game, and once all the pve content was done, they just added a few arenas, the mists and voila. That’s your pvp. That’s unfortunately pretty clear. While Anet was making PvE content (which includes all the class skills and traits) they never really considered pvp much.

I mean seriously how ignorant could they be…

My point is, an MMO could be e-sport, if it was built with that in mind…. From day 1 of developement. And Anet was close with GW1, if they only built from that point on in GW2, then GW2 would have been an e-sport by now.

Instead they decided to tear it all down and start from scratch, making mistakes as if they had zero knowledge of what they learned in GW1. Actually it’s even worse. GW2’s design philosophy is in many ways a 180 degrees turn compared to what the philosophy was back in GW1… And it’s a turn to the worse. Stuff that made perfect sense in GW1, makes no sense here at all.

Which leaves me really confused.

Your one out of thousands. They should’ve taken Counter-Strike as their role-model. If you look at CS and its evolution you see how successful it was since the first version of it, and still is. What they made was just better graphics and some more maps. No hard work.

A-Net should’ve built GW2 on the basis of GW1, just with a faster pace to make it E-Sport compatible. It’s that easy.

Hammerheart.1426:

Empathetic Fighter.2065:

Deimos Tel Arin.7391:

well, u think those people who like downed state are minority.
i think other wise though.
for me, the ones who dislike downed state are the minority.

It’s more like the ppl accept it as it is, because . . . what can we do else?

Ambush them during a state of the game

They would answer the same thing, they did everytime: “We definitely look into this”.
You can watch every SOTG, note down every topic they said this sentence and write a pretty long list on what changes we can expect in the near future.

Burning is actually the only condition, that is outstanding. Condition-speccs without it have no chance to be successfull (see engi/necros). Therefore it should be reduced a bit in duration or damage. The rest of the conditions are not a big deal (weakness mabye).

Ever tried to play a necro before patch? Without burning the damage was fine, but definitely not overhelming. Or the engineer? His access to burning was the key-element of this build (and is still).

Cyhann.2609:

Empathetic Fighter.2065:

Cyhann.2609:

Lordrosicky.5813:

dodging is OP

Dodging is the best thing in this game, and normal dodges can’t really be spammed too much aside in a few set ups. Dodging by itself also is by no means OP.

After a long time I come back to this forum and see posts like these. Are you kittening srs? You obviously can’t be or you aren’t able to figure out by your own that dodging is one of the most broken mechanics in this game, as it is spammable and therefore doesn’t produce skill, but luck. Jeesus…

You have no Idea, before the rune of the adventure was nerfed you were able to make
builds that perma dodge, and not some kind of semi perma dodge, but a real one. And
I’m talking just about the “v” skill, without the addition of any evasive skills. The stuff
we have today isn’t even remotely close to that.

Let’s asume somebody has perma vigor, which means 4 dodges every 10 seconds, but
is that so much? If you compare it with the amout your #6 skill heals, and the dmg
conditions and even some auto attacks do, that’s not really too much.

Traited a Thief is able to doge 3 times in 12 seconds, and he might use vigor, which means 6 times in 12 seconds? Two dodges more than a normal person, it’s not that
much, also a thief like that is either having low damage or low toughness, so there
is a pay off there. Also he only has a vigor uptime of 66% and even then he would
waste some heals.

The thing is, if said Thief has all the obve, uses S/D and SB and the sigil of
energy on each weapon and uses the signet of agility, he hase more evasion
uptime than he would actually need, thats the point where it too much.

If you can’t handle an enemy with 4 dodges in the next 10 seconds …. well sorry.
But well I actually would prefer some kind of dodge mechanic which just quickly
moves the player to a different location, but that wouldn’t work too well with the
way attacks work in this game.

As you clearly stated, dodging can be spammed. And spamming is a problem in this game, seems like you are not aware of it. 4 dodges in 10 seconds are way too much. I agree that the damage also is too much (and other things too) and should be adjusted to it. However, doding became (cuz of sigils and vigor and evade-skills) skillless.
You dodge, not because you see the enemy coming up with a fear or a stun, but rather because you can. “99%” of all dodges are either because your endurance is (nearly) full or by prediction.

As gold would change something. If you need gold go PvE. PvP has glory as its currency. Let A-Net make something with it. We don’t need more PvE players in here.

This game is still not fun to watch, not to say unwatchable.
So much clutter, no details of good plays, asuras, no risk-reward, no comeback-ability besides guildlord etc.

More than 99% of all ppl who bought the game don’t enjoy PvP. Why should that change at the gamescom? It just shows the crowd how unfinished this game is.

Seems like Weakness now reduces heal.

ahuba.6430:

Kultas Sunstrider.9218:

or hire more people for the pvp aspect of the game. kitten, they sold over 3 millions copies, I think they can afford to pay someone who is not totally brainless (any reference to Karl “The Legend” Mclain is purely random)

“Don’t criticize what you can’t understand”
How ironic. You know, Karl didn’t become a dev in one of the top game design companies just because of his beautiful ponytail hair. Chances are you have no idea how to right code, how to think on balance changes and it’s impact and you’re precisely criticising what you don’t understand.
I don’t get all this hate on the guy just because he was weird on sotg, maybe he was just nervous and didn’t get his ideas across well enough who knows, but if he’s the one responsible for balance tweeks its because he has the qualifications for it. It’s easy to call someone brainless when all you have to do in this game is enjoy it and go “BOOOO this sucks you brainless” when you don’t like something.

Mabye he is over-intelligent and super educated, mabye a genius in his area. The problem is we can only judge from the sotg and the actual balance that is happening. And what we see are 3 ppl on a screen searching for excuses because nothing is developed in time.
It’s clear that they are understaffed for pvp and trying to get e-sports (in this incomplete beta-state a nice joke) is for like 5 ppl just toooooo much to handle. For me it’s a fact: Get more ppl working on pvp (outsourcing, temporarily hire), get all the basics (wanted features = see the forum with tons of suggestions) and implement them into the game. Then you can let your 5 ppl make these features perfect. This would need like 3 months and you have a nice PvP and ppl that actually play it.

marnick.4305:

Tombing was indeed the best PVP I’ve ever played. It’s was good on so many levels. The only thing missing was solo join option (briefly existed)

If SoloQ for HA would be available back in times, it would have been so huge.

Parisalchuk.9230:

Gandarel.5091:

I think deathmatch would work Did some 2v2s with friends in my CA just for the funzies, and even bunkers went down. Not a gamebreaker if you take one or don’t.

Some reworked or new formats, doesn’t matter, I don’t think ppl want the exact same HA back, just a global tournament where winning a match actually makes you feel some kind of progress, the more you win the more rank points you get, many maps and game modes are maxed in a row, and the HoH winner team is broadcasted, gets into observer and has access to some kind of reward.

They had this with reward chests in the 3 round tournaments. People complained that they took too long to complete.

So which is it community – are you willing to play in a pvp match for a possible long time, or do you want shorter matches?

The original problem wasn’t really the time, but moreover the entry-fee for paid-tournaments and the lost challenge in free-tournaments, due to no MMR and obviously the paid-tournaments, where the best teams were only playing in.
After they took the 3-round paid tournament away and replaced it with 1-round paid-tournaments, the competitive scene was there. Meanwhile the 3-round tournament still were in place, but as said, the 1-round tournaments took all the competitive teams into it, while 3-round tournaments were left to soloQers. So the question was for SoloQers: Do I farm 3-round tournaments without any guarantee, or do I farm Hotjoin, where I get more points in less time. That’s why 3-round tournaments died and A-Net was not cappable of providing a real tournament-system. So now we have 1 round tournaments. . . and that’s it.

DPS-Guards are not in a bad spot either. And with the upcoming changes, they’ll get some more options.

Mending should remove all conditions (see “Consume Conditions” from Necro).
Balance stance should have a shorter cd and a shorter duration of stability (see “Stand your Ground” from Guard). The rest seems legit, without overpower the class. I like the slight increases/decreases.

JonPeters.5630:

We believe the majority of the issue is the effects spam. News on that front coming VERY soon. Once that is out of the way we can start to address other concerns.

Jon

It took you nearly 12 months to realize such a thing? Respect

Mrbig.8019:

Empathetic Fighter.2065:

Mrbig.8019:

Thieves, after quickness nerf, are bottom tier, along with the war.

The warrior isn’t viable anymore in pvp. So if the thief is on the same level, you could say it’s not viable anymore too. I hope when you reread it you will agree.

Stop raging .

I understand wars are suffering and are not viable anymore in PvP, but the thief is not THAT better than them.

We’re in the same position, altough i agree wars are worse than thieves right now.

Actual meta pushes towards defense, and without quickness we can’t punish them anymore.

It’s actually you raging about how bad thieves are now. But sometimes, just sometimes it’s the player and not the class that is not viable.

GankSinatra.2653:

Does anyone even know what alcopaul is talking about anymore

About the incentive to play and why HA/GvG from GW1 succeeded with such an easy model. Actually everything that a top-player wants to have, but nothing from it can be seen in GW2.

Josh Davis.6015:

@Sigil stacking – I guess we didn’t make it clear enough on stream – many of the sigils will be rebalanced to compensate for the ability to stack two of the same type.

We all know how well you balance . . .

For god’s sake: stop calling it GvG!!

Sure this game is e-spawts!
Since all top-teams stopped playing the game, it is even more interesting to watch.

Forsaker.9213:

Drafigo.4690:

Forsaker.9213:

Justin ODell explain me how we the community can take u serious?

What we got since realese?
-broken leeder?
-broken solo que?
-power creep?
-no skill killing michine wars?
-no skill condi spam necros?
-no skill mm necros?
-no skill stealth mesmers?
-no skill zoo rangers?
-maps that are not even balanced?
-ton of bugs since reales w8 for fix till now?
-and more more more more more….
-broken matchmaking?

How? Tell me how? Company like anet can act like that , ignoring us the community , u dont listen to feedback . I playied a lot of diffrent games and this is 1st game when the crew responsible for balance/designe dont listen to feedback.Tell me how often u visit class forums? We had post from dev on necro forum few months ago , so until u dont start to respect us dont think we the community gonna respect u.

EDIT:
One more thing how can u even let in this game to chain CC? ITs not funny when u are stuned,dazed,feard,knocked,stun,dazed,imob,feard,knocked,dazed,stuned………………………………………………………………………………..

Great point at the end! Most games once you are hit with a type of CC you are immune for a few seconds. Great point!

man today in 1 game i got dazed-stuned-feard-imob in the same time , was realy fun

Lets be real game where team/company who is responsible for balance will never achive anything good when dont listen to feedback , thats why there are alfa/beta tests and here anet dont listen to us to it wont get better , so many games failed becouse of that and now GW2 gonna join them , the best thing is when they say " we have no recourse" , Devs i have a lot od wood from salvaging pvp items , i can give u if u want.

People got kicked out of the Alpha for saying negative things about the game, for e.g. future aspects that can turn into problems (especially concerning conquest).

Nowadays test-servers are offline. The development refuses to accept the fact, that they have no idea about their own game. Instead of getting help, they try so hard to get the turn-around (which obviously will result in more problems → see last patches).

The ignorance of A-Net was stated druing the Alpha couple of times, when it came down criticism from the testers. I mean look at the forum. Ignoring the community and do it their own way is just one of many points (see immobilize-stacking, dhuumfire etc.). Things never ever suggested get implemented into the game, while good suggestions from experienced players were left out.

Who the kitten cares about achievement points, but the addicted ones that actually collect the points? kitten I just read.

Oni Link.4621:

No guys, the OP is absolutely right. There MUST be an option to see all characters as humans. You don’t have to use it, but it there should be. It is not about “I can’t see what an Asura does”. The problem is “why Norns are so easy to read while Asuras aren’t?”.
SPVP should be balanced in EVERY aspect.
You are not forced to use it, but there must be the option for who wants too.

PS: And yes, there is a difference between Asura or non-Asura, just look at tournaments: most of players are Asura. Ugly to play against and ugly to watch, really.

Have to agree with that. Also for Shoutcasting a match it is hard to tell what asuras are actually doing. There is alot of interesting stuff going on, which is rarely noticed by shoutcasters/observers when you have a teamfight going on between 8 asuras.
I think for the future this toggle is needed to enter the e-sport scene.

If you take away the burst of a thief… he will disappear from the game (especially from tournaments). And if you have some exp. you won’t die against thiefs. There are too many 2-2-2 thiefs around who are free targets.

Now stop complaining about every strenght of a class and learn to deal with it.
“Regards – a NOT-THIEF-player”

Actually this forum is the best feedback the devs can get. I think even when there are not constructive posts at all, you see how satisfied (or not) ppl are and what they are struggling with.
If noone would complain about frenzy the devs wouldn’t look at it twice, as ppl are okay with it. Other thing was the 1v1 paid-tournament release, where you got no reward from it. What we saw were flaming threads all over the place. And let’s see… they fixed the rewards in a day! There are douzens of examples.

So please stop complaining about ppl that complain.

Probably you playing free tournaments. Please watch teldoos stream if you wanna see how the engineer is well played. And still it’s a “to be carried” class.

hooma.9642:

Empathetic Fighter.2065:

hooma.9642:

Empathetic Fighter.2065:

hooma.9642:

Empathetic Fighter.2065:

Relentliss.2170:

I love how he calls things ‘improvements’ cause I am not seeing any.

giving op regen warriors better shoutheal to troll more and call it “support others”

If I would do such a work in my company, I’d have lost my job. But ye, they’re designers and we can’t see the brilliancy behind this creative work.

there is not deeper thinking behind. all they do is seeing some parts of the game and adjust it ignoring it impact on the rest of the game. its like the changes to stunduration.

all in all the complete problems coming from missing balls to do the full step. so why not remove as example +daze/stun durations and adjust the needed time for every skill if u can do half the work and throw it at the customers. at least u has shown that u are willing to do something

“sarcasm” you know it? :P

:)

sometimes its hard to regonize.. i heard fanboys are still out there who believe in anet

I’m definitely one of the core-bootlickers here.
Was it easier to recognize this time?

Decrypter.1785:

May i add a question , while we have developers interacting in this thread ..

Q . How long after Gw1 launched did you add GvG,HoH,Arenas ? also when was it open region pvp with automated tourneys and observe modes ?

At GW1, there were other persons working on. The good ones left to “better” companies.

Anelyn.4593:

Change spectral wall to spectral circle / bubble, same radius as greater marks, fears anything inside towards outside, and anything trying to get inside outside. Same mechanic / cd / duration etc. Also make it reflect projectiles since is a freaking spectral thing.

Yep and increase the fear duration of it and clean conditions while staying inside of it. Or mabye invulnerable during its duration. How about that?

Gibe.8172:

Warrior is a good, strong class.

The main problem is that people really don’t know how to use it and complain.

Said by a warrior since day 1.

Then tell me how pro-warriors like you, evade the cluster of AoE-Damage raining on you while still doing viable dmg in 130 range against evading opponents.
As I never saw you in competitive play, this must be your second account.

Selling unid dyes from pvp would result in a lower value. The crit chance for rares are the same I think.

viivi.2394:

Zoutsha.1093:

viivi.2394:

Zoutsha.1093:

viivi.2394:

You guys really need to get laid more often.

ohhh someone runs out of arguments

Oh I must have hit a nerve there, ‘cause I wasn’t making argument other than how silly this discussion has become.

I have a girlfriend so i couldnt care less. Its just funny how ppl always start to flame like “ahhh ur a bad player, get on my lvl noob…” and when they realize that your a good and high ranked player they bring arguments like “get a real life” or “at least im not a virgin”.
You posted multiple times in this thread is that not arguing? now you make yourself look like an idiot.

You seem to take this matter very personal. I hope I didn’t offend you, though I am glad you felt the need to reassure me of your social competence.

I must admit I have never had such a dreadful experience as you describe. I am sure it has helped shape your personality and make you stronger.

Reversing a lost argument by such a subtile answer, is not going to save your fail before. Pretty cheap to take this on such a childish level. I mean everyone can write whatever he wants into the internet, so can you. Well done, you’re a official part of the internet now!

Actually I really appreciate this map (guess I’m the only one here). It’s not so focused on the conquest overall. The only “little” problem in my point of view, is RTL. It’s not applied to the movement reduction so far (you guys allrdy mentioned you will add this). The problem I have in general is that RTL is not even considered by conditions like cripple and chill. If this would be the case you wouldn’t see so much eles on this map (even if a guardian is a better orb-runner).

Juan Ignacio.8903:

its like the necro thingy

community: we want necro to be a bit more tougth or a bit more mobility
anet: ok we agree, here is dhuumfire

^

Ultima.8673:

maybe anet should ask some elementalists who made more than 2k tourneygames than a necroplayer. people cry about elebunker because it seems to be unkillable in a 1v1 ???? (engi will rip apart eles, good ranger can do the same…)

cantrip ele is not broken imo (many people just suck 1v1 and have no theorycrafting skills and play bad builds) …just buff warrior

Even Phantaram said the same Thing. If you wanna offend ppl then make sure you’re above their skill Level. Otherwise it’s just embarassing.

The reason why Ranger in PvP is not suceeding? He lacks of efficient AoE-Damage (Trapper is too weak compared to other classes) and he has not as much of teamsupport as other classes have. Especially since Necro stepped into the spotlight.

+ I have to agree on above points.

It’s not good to see a game just in the view of PvE only. And that’s what you did. If you would have played PvP from launch till now, you would see that the playerbase in gerneal is decreasing heavily. In PvE it’s pretty stabile. But that’s not the whole game.

+1, sometimes I even forget my character-name

Zenith.7301:

Archaon.6245:

…and as i said way before…why should someone run a condition mesmer if you can just bring a necro and spam aoe condis 24/7 with more survivability and effectiveness? Other classes can do far better than mesmer outside dps shatter…and dps shatter is useless atm…so…hotzerg, die or reroll…no other options aviable…

Because the condi mesmer has better survival outside conquest formats.

In case you haven’t come across PU mesmers in WvW winning 1v4’s. It’s an extremely potent attrition build. It just takes time that you don’t have in spvp, and the mobility/stealth of the build is not helpful when you need to stand in a point or kill people quickly to reclaim that point.

The problem is how the conquest format emphasizes the strengths of some classes and builds while leaving others out in the cold.

A format in which holding points is key, and to do so you need to stand on them, and aoe skills have the very same ratio or bigger of that point you need to stand on, that’s a problem. Because you’re forcing people to eat skills that in places like WvW they wouldn’t eat as there’s nothing compelling them to clump up in tight quarters.

Guardians also complain about condis in spvp because unlike wvw you have no 2-3 staff eles laying down healing rains while you run 6-7 guardians with shout condi removal and lemongrass food/melandru rune reducing condition uptime to sub 30%.

The format really dictates what is valuable. It’s not the build itself inherently that’s broken.

I also think that their design for the condition mesmer also had him spreading boons with the staff. So it’s more of a supportive shutdown conditions build but it just doesn’t do it effectively because the only conditions it has access to are damaging conditions.

The necro is supposed to be the master of conditions, the class whose offense comes mostly from conditions at the expense of lack of boons and mobility and burst (which was made pointless by terror fear chains).

But the condi mesmer was never defined. All that was said about mesmers is that they rely on their illusions, but the clones themselves are pretty lackluster outside shatter builds and phantasms are mostly single target and thus useless in teamfights. And clones have no survivability in team fights.

You pretty much have to trait your clones for on death traits to get some use out of them in team fights.

So first you say condition mesmer is viable, then talking about WvW (wtf?!) and in the last part you argument condition mesmer is not viable due to conquest. Rather confusing dude.

Ignoring is the best way to deal with incompetence.

I missunderstood the term “tournament”. For priced tournaments with a team-pool this option is a must have. For tournaments as queueing against randoms no. So I agree here.

Well, finally a good idea. However as alrldy mentioned this should also go for dungeons.

The dps output in this game is way too high, so there comes naturally a counter with it. And to be honest I rather face a guardian bunkering than a ranger with evade spam.

The point why guardian is preferred over other bunker-classes is “Stand your Ground”. As no other class can provide 6 seconds of stability to the whole team on a30 (24) sec cool-down.

Lady Sara Goldheart.2764:

This may seem like a sneaky advertising, but I will drop this here.
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/suggestions/Reward-System-Incentives-PvP/first#post2113474
Especially the higher ranks are not worth it. Dredge and Nightmare Armor are dungeon-armors in PvE, so one has a much, much easier access. Tier 1 and 2 Cultural Armor cost less than 10g together. This is just one day in Citadel of Flame. And we spend time to reach 1621500 or 1771500 rank points to just get Tier 1 ? Even more with rank 70 requiring 3421500 or 387500 rank points. ( Not sure what to read out of wiki ). This carrot is rotten. And there is no other carrot to stick to aside skill progression ( which is rewarding itself too ).
Furthermore, I talked with a few of my friends and a conversion of like 100 glory to 1 gem would not be bad.
What infuriates me the most at the moment though is how I am forced to farm PvE for gems or play gamble with dyes. This means either spend less time on PvP or pray I get some good dye which sells well. This is not satisyfying at all, especially since it has been said that PvE and PvP should be completly seperate. One should not be forced to do stuff he or she does not enjoy in order to be able to purchase or enjoy things.
Also, get any RNG out, it is not in the favor of customers and even PvE’ers are put off.

As for infrastructure and it being a good part of the incentive, divide Solo-Q and Team-Q. As probably a lot competitive players will also play SoloQ, it may put others off, but I guess that will do more good than harm for learning purposes and some challenging matches.
Put in also seasons where one can earn titles, skins, etc., make it even quarter-yearly if it drags out too much. Or half a year.

Edit: Make it much less glory for higher rank points or scrap that system, else it will put off casuals too which have even less chances to get an armor like Nobleman, Dredge or Nightmare. Make the rewards much more accessible but also put in seperate rewards for high ranked/skilled players.
Giving the players freedom of choice to decide what armor or weapon to go for keeps them happier.

Rank is not worth any hour to grind, since competitive play is not rewarded. You can be no. 1 on this worthless ladder and still a hotjoin zerger makes more rank-progression over the day. This game overall feels not rewarding at any point in competitive play, it feels more like a job. As for me I rather enjoy some map-completation on PvE (which is sad) than wasting my time in a stale and repetitive game-mode without any kittening incentive. The only thing that keeps me in this game are my friends.

Old but gold. Though it’s not really optimal for TPvP. For tournaments i’d suggest to run a bunker-build only.

On his channel he presents two other bunker builds (they are nearly the same today) and explains the advantages/disadvantages of it. A look at these vids mabye can help you a bit more detailed.

The balance overall is pretty good (besides tons of bugs). I think balancing the game is not first priority. A-Net needs to rework the reward system, some new mods and ladders to be able to achieve something.