Guild Wars 2

I know I saw them try to put up advertizements on Facebook twice today and both times it got loaded down with feedback on the price and then the staff took the advertizements down.

Maybe they will eventually get the hint that we will not be duped so easily.

But hey, the Fanbois are doing great at helping them meet their quota so we will be able to get HoT for cheaper sooner.

The problem is still like
for veteran players:
I pay 100USD for old content(five character slots) + new content (1 character slot only if you pre-purchase)

for new players:
I pay 50 USD for old content(five character slots) + new content

Now come on, even if us veteran players pre-purchase HoT, what are we getting? An extra character slot. A freaking extra character slot. How much does that cost? 800 gems or 10 USD. Does this 800 gems mean anything to a veteran player who started playing since 2012 or even 2014? I don’t think so.

What kind of appreciation is this? Even worse is players that started playing this game 6 months ago can get a full-price refund. That means they don’t need to pay more to enjoy new content. A player who played a game for 6 months can be counted as a veteran and why on earth are players that are even more “veteran” who support this game longer, maybe even pay more for gems get treated like kitten?

I understand you want to attract more new players into this game, to keep this game “lively”, but that doesn’t mean you can treat old players like kitten.

50€ for an expension is ALOT, for that amount of money u can buy a whole new game. I believe that’s what i paid for the game when it released, so HoT better have atleast 3-4 new dungeons, 6-8 new maps, and alot of new content, or else it aint worth the money.

Old players are getting a slap in the face, if a new players gets a game + update for 50€, and i only get an update, then i want atleast another free account without HoT, and my current account updated, so i could give that “free account without HoT” to a friend or something.

I really dont understand why they didnt create a Game + HoT package, and a seperate HoT package. 50€ for the whole game, and like 25-35€ for HoT would be acceptable.
But ye, i bet they dont earn enough money with the gem store, and wanna leech more from us to keep playing, well i aint buying HoT anytime soon with these prices…

Ayrilana.1396:

Aidenwolf.5964:

Ayrilana.1396:

Aidenwolf.5964:

Ayrilana.1396:

Kityn.8247:

Ayrilana.1396:

Kityn.8247:

Extremely horrible pricing model. Paying for something that you already own. I don’t care that GW2 core game comes ‘free’ with HoT. You are basically throwing away an entire account. Current GW2 owners should get something when they purchase HoT other than a throw away account. I would be happy if 2000 Gems came with it.

You’re not paying for something you already own. It’s a free bonus for new accounts/characters.

Then why does it feel like it? And why does so many people agree with me on this?

They don’t understand how sales/promotions work? It’s the same people that would say that a buy one get one 50% off means that each item is 25% off regardless even if you buy only 1. It’s the same people who thing candy single candy bar is half price when you buy only one during a buy 2 get 2 free sale.

Giving the core game is a way to get new players into the game which is important for any MMO. They market the product so that all new accounts from now on will get the core game, plus all previous expansions, by purchasing the latest expansion. Anyone can take advantage of this regardless as to whether they are a new player or veteran so long as they follow the criteria outlined in the promotion.

You also have companies that repackage products together. You often see this with GOTY editions which contain the core game along with all of the expansions. The value that players had when they first bought the game and expansions at their original price is not diminished when someone purchases the GOTY edition at a lower cost.

I understand very well how pricing works and I’ll enlighten you. The base game is in all 3 bundles meaning a new player is getting a buy one get one free software package while current players get only HoT.

While this makes it easier and more desirable for a new player to get into the game it’s sending a message to current players that we’re a given to buy it so pay up. I own GW2 so I can continue without HoT I’m not a 100% guaranteed sale for Anet.

Yeah, I know the core game is included as a free bonus for new accounts in all three packages. Yes, it does equate to a buy one get one free situation more or less. I’ve stated this before and it’s fairly obvious.

It’s generally easier to get players who are already playing the game to purchase an e passion compared to new players. There’s nothing wrong with trying to focus on being new players to the game and this doesn’t mean that they’re neglecting existing players.

What is does mean is that New players are getting a far better deal than existing players. I’m being urged to buy a bad deal, that’s the issue.

Yeah. And as in one of the examples that I gave, those who only buy one item in a buy 2 get 2 free deal are getting a worse deal that those that take up the offer. That’s kind of how it works. I have also brought up when they sold the game for $10 kne weekend or sold the deluxe upgrade for half price. All vet players who bought those at full price got the worst deal.

I do have a question for you though. If the prices for all three packages were reduced by $20, would you have any issue at all?

I don’t believe that’s possible as NCSoft priced the expac. Minus the core game the expansion should be between $30- $40 and I’m being generous. I can wait as can others.

Straylight.7529:

You did NOT pay Arenanet in advance so they owe you three years of updates. You paid for Guild Wars 2 in it’s vanilla state. Nothing more, nothing less.

No we didn’t. It’s an MMO so frequent updates are expected and included as part of the base product. They sold the game on the basis of their post-launch plans. No-one would buy an MMO that wasn’t planning on adding new content just like no-one would release an MMO that wasn’t planning on adding new content. That’s not how the market works.

http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2012-04-23-guild-wars-2-developer-has-plans-for-literally-years-to-come

“Look,” concluded Price, "even from our standpoint we’ve got years of work, of great work, that players are going to be able to enjoy.

“We’re launching a service – you don’t launch a box and be done with it. We have years of awesome, fun work ahead of us.”

Articles like that are the reason people bought into GW2.

We were just talking about the guild missions thing in our guild.

Even as a pure-PvE player, the thought of grinding Langmar Estate for a guild hall sounds worse than a gear treadmill, TBH. I really hope that they have some new missions on the way, the existing ones are incredibly uninteresting for long-term players. It’s hard to get people to even show up for them anymore.

Hi,

We are a guild of 3 guys . We love WWW.
With Guild halls , we will have to do guild missions.

So why we have to do puzzle jump and things like this , when in this game we just love killing people on the battlefield !

Why can t we play as we want .. ??

The OP’s point is quite valid. Any veteran player that buys and links HoT to his old account should get something.

It’s simple matter of fairness. New players get core game + HoT rolled into one for price of x-pac alone. Old players who do not choose to make new account (taking up server space and other resources), but instead link HoT to their old account, should get something too. Like that extra character slot.

Still at least A-net moved a bit torwards us veterans (and it’s own interest along the way). For me personally now it’s more of an “50$ is ten bucks too much for me”, rather then “I won’t support this sleeze”.

Duke Blackrose.4981:

This community can never be pleased.

It is standard MMO practice for any expansion that adds new character classes to also include at least one additional character slot by default. See: WoW, Guild Wars 1, etc.

The problem with this “clarification” is that you ONLY get this benefit if you pre-purchase.

In other words, you are expected to pre-purchase for a “bonus” that is seen as normal in almost every other comparable game out there. It’s like buying a plane ticket at the gate, and finding out the seat is not included, since you didn’t order your ticket well in advance.

Pre-purchasing as a practice is inherently anti-consumer. We are literally paying for a promise. We have no guarantee as to the quality of the product, or if we’ll even get the product (if ArenaNet goes under before release, for example). This move strongarms people into pre-purchasing if they want that slot

Duke Blackrose.4981:

This community can never be pleased.

To be fair, GW2 is touted as a casual game, but when it comes to selling their games, they aren’t so “casual” about it, especially when they enforce a deadline for the free perks. Why can’t company businessmen be pleased too? It goes both ways, right?

A character slot should be included with HoT even if people buy it after it comes out. Only including it in the preorder is messed up.

The character slot is required to make HoT fully functional. The core game doesn’t even have enough slots for all core professions. At the very least you should add one with HoT for the new profession.

To me this feels like I’m being bullied into preordering. I would much prefer to wait until the game comes out and decide if it’s worth the price.

Pushing the preorder this hard makes it seem like you don’t have confidence in the quality of the product. If it’s a good product people will end up buying it after it comes out.

I still won’t be pre-purchasing it or purchasing it. While the extra character slot is a nice incentive, it is also a band-aid response. What do we need 2 extra character slots for? Wouldn’t some gems have sufficed, how about dropping the prices of expansion by $10 on each version. The reason being is that they want your money via pre-purchase, they do not care once they have it. It is all a numbers game for them, HoT has already failed with its greedy and flawed business model. These goodwill bonuses of free character slots and gems will be gone upon release because they want you to feel that you ‘need’ these items and must pre-purchase but that is not true. If they cared about the playerbase they would have been standard given out to all current players now instead. They have showed us nothing about the expac that is worthy of 50, 75 or 100 dollars. Any trait/skill changes are happening to the game anyway so you don’t miss out, what are we paying for then? Does anyone actually know? A new class and a few maps is all I can see, is that worth it?

Well they have ruined what GW was for me, between lazy writing in the personal story, lackluster content with living story and the only content updates we ever see being gem store items upon gem store items…. GW is ruined.

I won’t be ever buying HoT, I am done with gems, screw every future expansion and giant middle finger to the greed of the company.
(That finger only half the size of the one they gave this community time and again)

So, I just got home, just saw the blog post, and…I’m still not buying HoT. I don’t need an extra character slot, I need to know what makes this worth buying at $50 – nothing so far adds up to that amount. Drop the price to $35, maybe even $40, for an expansion-only variant, and then I’ll buy it.

BolkovonHarnfeldt.1372:

You really want to get people to pre-purchase instead of waiting for the release to make an informed decision whether to buy or not, don’t you?

Exactly.

If you want me to pre buy an expansion then show me why it is worth $50. I love this game but I sincerely doubt that this expansion is going to be worth the money, sorry.

Zephyron.7081:

Thank you ArenaNet! Ignore the Negative Nancys and Debbie Downers! All in all, GW2 and HoT is the best bang for your buck MMO any way you slice it! Not only that, but it is THE BEST MMO on the market. You all put a lot of love in your game and it is obvious! Thank you!

As they’re expected to sell 2 million copies of what in my opinion is an overpriced upgrade to existing software, ignoring current customers is only feasible if they’re selling targets are being met. Many “Veterans” of the game have begun looking at HoT as consumers which isn’t a good sign for sales as this software update is thin in substance.

Call me a Sceptical Stan

So with the core game essentially being included or given away as a bundle with future expansions, I do hope that isn’t increasing the cost they are passing onto us.

Additionally, why not just provide the previous clients as a free download with the release of each expansion to not only keep the game heavily populated with new players for the community to interact with, but also to eliminate the need for including previous clients in the cost of any future expansions.

I have not pre-ordered yet primarily because so far the HoT only content im finding sufficient enough to justify the price and I am being generous (i’m not alone) and the current promotions are simply unappealing, price aside.

I hope to see the HoT only content greatly improve over what the core game is already going to be offering, unless they are trying to consider the interface improvements and balance changes to the core game part of HoT—that would be pretty kitten lame and dishonest.

I’ve been playing for 3 years. I have spent more than a few USD on the BLTC and additional accounts for my family members. I am not ungrateful for the now included additional character slot with all versions, but to be honest, that was the least we “expected”. It really isn’t something you are giving to us as much as it is demanded. Considering this, where is the real preorder bonus for players who had already purchased the core and been playing—some of us from launch? Seriously, the marketing team couldn’t have been this incompetent to not already considered different responses from the community even if you are all drinking from the same pitcher of kool aid. There should have already been plans in place, redundancies, preparation, etc. I can’t imagine the marketing team thought the community was that stupid. It is insulting to those of us uninterested in the kool aid compared to the volume and quality of content comparably to what the core game already includes or included when it was sold at full retail.

This is nice and all but I still bought the game from amazon a couple weeks ago, your policy still makes me pay for content twice.

I don’t have a good solution for you but I know I won’t be buying the expansion any time soon. If the base game becomes unplayable I will quit and spend my time/money elsewhere.

Reposted:

“We want to be clear about our business model for future expansions now that we are approaching our first paid expansion for Guild Wars 2. We believe that to keep the game dynamic and vibrant with a constantly growing community, it should be as easy as possible for new players to get into Guild Wars 2. For Guild Wars 2: Heart of Thorns, we didn’t want the core game’s price to be a factor in a new player’s decision to begin playing Guild Wars 2. In the future, if we release further Guild Wars 2 expansions, we plan to offer all of the prior expansions, the core game, and the latest expansion for one single purchase price.”

You guys do realize that they will use this^ as an excuse the continuously raise the price on us, right? $49.99 = HoT $59.99 = Future expansion: aka because it includes HoT already.

That extra character slot still isn’t a sure fire thing. I’m going to wait until they’ve expanded their servers, dropped the price, or whatever before buying HoT sorry.

Khristophoros.7194:

What I’m upset about is they’re only including the character slot for preorders so I feel bullied into it even though I much prefer not to preorder. I don’t like the concept of preordering. I want to decide after the product comes out if it’s worth the price.

Yeah, I figure if there’s not a character slot in the basic version of HoT when it is released (and it sounds like there won’t be, unless something changes) then I’ll probably just end up waiting a good 9 to 12 months until the price drops. There are other games to play in the interim.

By that time, even if I have to pay ten bucks for a character slot it will most likely still be a lot cheaper than fifty dollars. I can wait.

Khristophoros.7194:

D best.3547:

Khristophoros.7194:

I think this was all planned to get away with charging 50 dollars for it. It’s not worth 50 dollars unless the guild halls are absolutely incredible because the amount of content appears to be very low for a 50 dollar expansion.

And it’s really annoying that you are trying so hard to get people to preorder. If it turns out to be good people will buy it after it comes out. Don’t push the preorder this hard. Just make a good product and it will speak for itself after you release it.

I ended up preordering but I’m not happy about it. I felt like the only way I’d get a good value is by preordering the ultimate edition. I felt bullied into it. I may have done it, but I’m not happy about it.

They came out with much more than $60 worth of content with GW2 + living story + Events + Every patch ever. I’m more than happy to give developers more money then subscription games for the expansion. The reason I was hesitant to prepurchase is the fairness factor of the deal that new players got compared to old players. Its like having a game %25 off for some but not for others.

If you want to support them because they did X, Y, and Z, that is a great reason to preorder and they don’t need to push you to do it. You were going to preorder anyway.

What I’m upset about is they’re only including the character slot for preorders so I feel bullied into it even though I much prefer not to preorder. I don’t like the concept of preordering. I want to decide after the product comes out if it’s worth the price.

Agree. It was a good read until the ‘only preorder gets one slot’ part. Still feel tad bit shady but I guess I could live with this fix.

What? how are you people happy with this?? you are paying 50 bucks AT least cause I know some of you WILL get the other options, and then all they are giving you back is something worth 10$??? No, that seems cheap. If you were giving out a free legendary or something NOW THAT seems more like something to pay us,veterans, back for the support WE HAVE given you Anet. Not some lousy character slot.

D best.3547:

Khristophoros.7194:

I think this was all planned to get away with charging 50 dollars for it. It’s not worth 50 dollars unless the guild halls are absolutely incredible because the amount of content appears to be very low for a 50 dollar expansion.

And it’s really annoying that you are trying so hard to get people to preorder. If it turns out to be good people will buy it after it comes out. Don’t push the preorder this hard. Just make a good product and it will speak for itself after you release it.

I ended up preordering but I’m not happy about it. I felt like the only way I’d get a good value is by preordering the ultimate edition. I felt bullied into it. I may have done it, but I’m not happy about it.

They came out with much more than $60 worth of content with GW2 + living story + Events + Every patch ever. I’m more than happy to give developers more money then subscription games for the expansion. The reason I was hesitant to prepurchase is the fairness factor of the deal that new players got compared to old players. Its like having a game %25 off for some but not for others.

If you want to support them because they did X, Y, and Z, that is a great reason to preorder and they don’t need to push you to do it. You were going to preorder anyway.

What I’m upset about is they’re only including the character slot for preorders so I feel bullied into it even though I much prefer not to preorder. I don’t like the concept of preordering. I want to decide after the product comes out if it’s worth the price.

I think this was all planned to get away with charging 50 dollars for it. It’s not worth 50 dollars unless the guild halls are absolutely incredible because the amount of content appears to be very low for a 50 dollar expansion.

And it’s really annoying that you are trying so hard to get people to preorder. If it turns out to be good people will buy it after it comes out. Don’t push the preorder this hard. Just make a good product and it will speak for itself after you release it.

I ended up preordering but I’m not happy about it. I felt like the only way I’d get a good value is by preordering the ultimate edition. I felt bullied into it. I may have done it, but I’m not happy about it.

Been playing since Beta came out. A friend pre ordered the game for me so I could enjoy it to its fullest because some of us can’t afford to fork out a sh** ton of money. And I’ve been an avid player since. But now, I’m feeling a little put off with this new expansion pack. I don’t see that I’m getting any true perks, personally unless I were to pre purchase the two most expensive downloads. I’ll be lucky to even get the standard priced down load. And…tbh. I don’t even know if I want to now. Even with everything I read to assure the players of good things. I just don’t buy into it this time around.

Julie Yann.5379:

there should be an incentive to pre-purchase and that is fine.

Incentive: stop encouraging people to throw their money at castles in the air. It’s not healthy. Tell us what to expect and when to expect it, and while we’re waiting, let us know if something changes. And the free slot should go to everyone who pays for the expansion, not just the blindly faithful.

I don’t post on the forums very often…but I feel like I should throw my voice into the mix here.

You realize, all they did to fix this debacle, was to offer a temporary extra character slot? You get it if you pre-purchase the game, you don’t get it if you wait for the expansion to come out and then buy it. So…if I want to wait to see everything the game has to offer, judge it for myself and then buy it…I won’t get the extra character slot.

After the expansion releases…it’s the SAME EXACT THING…why are we giving praise to Anet again? Granted, they actually did communicate and address the community, but that…in itself…it not enough to garner the type of praise people are giving them. :/

I don’t think this is so much for veteran players, as much as those who are willing to fork out the money for a pre-order. Someone else actually got it spot on, it feels like there is a big precedent on getting people to pre-order the game, perhaps not as confident in it as we would hope. If it is good, people will buy it – and my main concern here, is that this ‘community’ response, did not actually address the majority of concerns that there are for the expansion. One of the big issues, since the very release of GW2 has been the story; lore and presentation, and ever since the release, I have seen nothing addressing it. I do hope Anet has something in store for us, because many of the issues deter a huge amount of players from GW2. I actually say this in positivity, as GW2 could always be so much more popular. If us veteran players who don’t want to pre-order, which is reasonable, given the little information we actually have, and little clarification around so many concerns as of yet, we will presumably be buying the game for the same price, with no character slot? Now, forgive me if I’m wrong. But pre-orders are quite commonly for early access, I understand rewarding people more, but not adding a character slot for the existing accounts which upgrade? Seems cheeky. This only makes me more skeptical as this response seemingly took a long time to occur, with minimal action and in actuality, a fraction of the concern with the game dealt with. The praise that is being given for an issue that was quite frankly so obviously going to occur baffles me, though I don’t mean to degrade those who do wish to give thanks naturally. This isn’t meant to be so much as an Anet bash, as a wake up call to staff and perhaps some players, and I do thank Anet for looking at the forums and addressing concerns, but it seems like quite the tactful resolve in removing that animosity that was all over the forums, when it has changed nothing. You’ve addressed the issue that shouldn’t have been an issue, and offered refunds to those who purchased the game up to six months ago?
“We set out on this journey to challenge the conventions of MMOs”

Challenge them! Another point I missed, is that a lot of players who are disinterested in the game due to some issues will simply not come to forums, not everyone does (even I struggle sometimes to write about a game which I play, and am ultimately not completely satisfied with, when I have other things I could or should do). Forget the price tag people, they can put a £100 price tag on it for all I care, but if they do so, it has to live up to it. So my fingers are crossed for the updates that GW2 badly needs for its player base to grow substantially.

DevilLordLaser.8619:

And just as everyone who didn’t blow their tops on first knee-jerk knew would happen, ArenaNet has put it right.

Did you folks seriously figure they wouldn’t? Come on. You know better than that.

Thanks Gaile, for weathering that particular poopnado, and thanks ArenaNet for doing the sensible thing. I’d already preordered Ultimate on my own, but I will admit I feel better about the purchase with this announcement and clarification in place. Hopefully lessons have been learned all around from this debacle.

Whatever else people say about this company, it’s been my experience that ArenaNet is one of the best in the business at learning from their errors, and really? You can’t expect more than that from anyone.

Nothing would have changed without the backlash.

Fernling.1729:

No pitchfork here. I just don’t think Anet should be put on a pedestal for fixing something that should never have been a problem in the first place.

I really do appreciate that they are willing to make changes based on customer feedback, I just don’t like the extent the playerbase has to take it to actually make it happen.
People were warning/begging/asking Anet months and months ago about adding a character slot to the expansion. If they really wanted to listen they probably should have done it then. Not when they see bad press and go into damage control. At this point they’re only doing it because it’s in their best interest.

^^^This.^^^

As someone mentioned earlier in this thread, it really does feel like they are doing the absolute bare minimum they could possibly get away with doing to address player concerns.

I don’t know. It just feels like ANet never does anything nice without some kind of “catch”.

Like Living Story season one, for example:
Yay, more story, and free content! (Catch: You can only play it when we want you to and if you miss it, too bad, it’s gone)

Or Living Story season two:
Yay! I can play it at my own pace! (Catch: But only if you’re level 80. Oh, and if you don’t log in during an event, too bad, you’ll have to pay gems for it later)

And now this.
Yay! They’re going to give us the character slot we told them we wanted. (Catch: But only if we give them our money before we actually know what we’re buying)

I realize the word I’m about to use here is an exaggeration, but I can’t help feeling frequently manipulated. It seems like simply giving them my money isn’t enough anymore, they also seem to expect me to jump through their hoops, and to do so on their timeline, not my own. It just…doesn’t feel good.

I’ll purchase (or not) HoT when I am ready, not when ANet tells me to. And since a simple character slot is a pretty basic feature for an expansion pack that features a new profession, it would be nice if ANet just gave the slot with the basic version, no matter when it is purchased.

But yeah, I know. There’s always a catch.