Guild Wars 2

I think I’ve got this figured out! We’re all just misunderstanding the op. They’re actually complaining that they got dunked by a sinister engie on a Mesmer.

This is the obvious logical conclusion, since complaining about sinister Mesmer is clearly absurd.

AlphatheWhite.9351:

Silverkey.2078:

I think there is no doubt the channeled block is needed. It makes the shield stand out as a defensive weapon. It was only excessive because of its duration. 2.25s is fine, but x2 is too much. Reducing to 1.75s for each block should be enough.

Baby steps. Maybe try 2s first :P

Well I considered 1.75s a small step
I played bunker the whole week-end, I felt the blocks were just exaggerated. With blurred frenzy and precognition, you’re near-invulnerable for a bug chunk of time…
1.75s still makes it 3.5s in total which is one of the best block of the game considering we also produce 2 phantasms and have already other invuln. The trade of is that there is counterplay (not attack the first block). I think 1.75s is a very reasonable number.

feight.2704:

i would much rather that the block gives distortion or something, not every block has to be channelled, and we have a blocking mechanism IN the profession, that allows us to use skill while blocking attacks. way better iteration than just a 2 sec block twice.

If you’re referring to “distorsion”, the problem is it prevents capping. This is a great panic button, but not something you want to use on CD when bunkering. I think a block makes a lot of sense on a shield, and believe me, a channeled block is needed to make bunker mesmer viable (and many of us want it to be viable). We are light armor profession with awful sustained damage. We have great supportive skills (though inspiration is a bit weak) but we need (non-kite) survivability.

My fellow Mesmers, I present to you my own original concept for an elite specialization, The Harlequin! I would love to hear what you all think of it.

New Elite Specialization:
The Harlequin

The Harlequin is an agile, high-mobility trickster who uses unpredictability and deception to her advantage on the battlefield. Drawing upon her background in the theater, the Mesmer utilizes the art of performance, in the form of the Harlequin Elite Specialization, to confound, control, and conquer the enemy in a spectacle of style and power!

>Aesthetic Style & Thematic Inspiration:
The Harlequin draws up the Thespian roots of the Mesmer by paying homage to ‘theatrics’ and using classical theater terminology in the skills. The Archetype of a ‘Prankster’ is also evoked, lending a colorful and comical visual effect to a variety of the Harlequin’s skills, as well as to their new weapon the off-hand scepter.

>New Profession Mechanic: Shatter Inversion
Your new F5 ability as a Harlequin is called Inversion and it allows you to do exactly what it says: invert your shatters! Inverted Shatter skills serve the opposite purpose of normal shatter skills, instead giving the Harlequin a fast way to produce more illusions with some utility.
Inversion acts as a shatter skill itself, destroying all active illusions and providing the Mesmer with ‘Schism’. However, Inversion has a significantly reduced cooldown based on the amount of illusions shattered.

Inversion: Shatter. Destroy all your clones and phantasms and invert the next base Mesmer shatter skill you use.
Cooldown: 1x Illusion 60 sec
2x Illusions 40 sec
3x Illusions 20 sec
~Schism: Shatters are inverted.~

~Inverted Shatters:~
Inverted Shatter skills have separate cooldowns from their un-inverted counterparts.

Inverted Mind Wrack – Mind Rend: Inverted Shatter. Emit a burst of magical energy, damaging all nearby foes. You create 1 clone per enemy struck (max 3).
Damage: X
Cooldown: 13 sec
Radius: 240
_Number of Targets: 5

Inverted Cry of Frustration – Cry of Astonishment: Inverted Shatter. Enemies at the target ground location are stunned and dazed. You create 1 clone per enemy struck (max 3).
Stun: 1 sec
Daze: 3 sec
Cooldown: 25 sec
Radius: 240
Range: 900
Number of Targets: 5

Inverted Diversion – Bedazzle: Inverted Shatter. Send forth a prismatic orb that captivates enemies’ attention. The orb will detonate when it reaches the end of its path or if activated a second time. When the orb detonates, nearby enemies are taunted, and 1 clone is generated per enemy struck (min. 1, max 3).
Orb Duration: 3 sec
Taunt: 2 sec
Taunt Radius: 240
Cooldown: 35 sec
Range: 600
Number of Targets: 3

Inverted Distortion – Persuasion: Inverted Shatter. Drop all conditions and become unattackable but you are unable to attack or use abilities. During this time, enemies you touch will give you a charge of Illusionary Charm, max 3 charges. When Persuasion ends, consume all stacks of Illusionary Charm and generate 1 clone per stack (max 3).
Duration: 4 sec
Cooldown: 45 sec
~Illusionary Charm: You’re so charming!~

>New Weapon: Off-hand Scepter
Harlequins being the “eccentric” characters they are, have done something interesting with scepters, a weapon that many magically-inclined Guild Wars 2 professions have come to recognize as a main-hand weapon: They wield them as an off-hand! Yes, this DOES allow the Harlequin Mesmer to be the first (and only?) class to dual-wield Scepters!

~Weapon Skills:~

Off-hand Scepter 4) Curtain Call: Roll forward evading attacks, then gain stealth. Becomes Encore.
Stealth: 4 sec
Evade: 1 sec
Cooldown: 15 sec
Roll Distance: 580
Notes: Stealth activates at the end of the roll.
||
V
Encore: Teleport back to your original location.
Notes: Encore is usable for 3 seconds after casting Curtain Call.

Off-hand Scepter 5) Phantasmal Jester: Phantasm. Create a phantasm that attacks your target with a violent explosion and then gives itself stealth.
Damage: X
Cooldown: 20 sec
Range: 1,200
Phantasm Stealth: 3 sec
Combo Finisher: Blast
Notes: Phantasmal Jester, when cast, will appear at the enemy’s location and perform its explode attack before immediately turning invisible. The Jester’s attack interval is about 4 seconds, with its stealth lasting 3 seconds, so as to appear out of stealth just before attacking to avoid getting ‘Revealed’. It will repeat this cycle until destroyed. The Jester’s attack, an explosion of rainbow glitter and swirlies, counts as a blast finisher.

>New Skill Type: Tricks
You know those things that Thieves do that make them really hard to catch? Well the Harlequin has a bit of a different take on it… usually involving decoys, duplicates, and… a jack-in-the-box?

~Healing Skill:~
Intermission: Trick. Dazzle nearby enemies with a bright flash of smoke, damaging and blinding them. You are healed and gain stealth per enemy hit.
Healing: X
Damage: Y
Cooldown: 30 sec
Radius: 240
Blind: 3 sec
Stealth: 1 sec per enemy (max 5 sec)

~Utility Skills:~

Utility 1) Disguise: Trick. Change your appearance to look like a Phantasm. Double the duration of all boons currently affecting you.
Duration: 10 sec
Cooldown: 15 sec
Notes: Simply gives your character the visual effect of your phantasms.

Utility 2) Soliloquy: Trick. Becomes Pantomime.
Duration: 5 sec
Cooldown: 25 sec
||
V
Pantomime: Steals one of the enemy’s skills. This skill is replaced with that skill.
Skill Swap Duration: 60 sec or until cancelled
Range: 240
~Copycat: You have something that doesn’t belong to you…~
Notes: Activating Soliloquy makes Pantomime usable for the next 5 sec. If Pantomime is not used, the spell reverts to Soliloquy and goes on cooldown. Stolen skills can be dropped early by removing the ‘Copycat" buff (by right-clicking it). Pantomime reverts to Soliloquy and goes on cooldown after the stolen skill is dropped or expires. When cast on enemy players in PvP, Pantomime will randomly steal one of the enemy’s Utility Skills. Enemy players still have access to their stolen skill.

Utility 3) Improvisation: Trick. Swap places with the target illusion and gain stealth.
Cooldown: 45 sec
Range: 1,200
Stealth: 5 sec
Notes: Can only be cast on one of your own illusions!

Utility 4) Avvio Diavolo: Trick. Place an invisible prop on the ground that triggers when an enemy approaches it. When triggered, nearby enemies are feared and confused.
Damage: X
Prop Duration: 60 sec
Cooldown: 20 sec
Trigger Radius: 180
Attack Radius: 240
Fear: 2 sec
Confusion: 5 stacks, 8 sec

~ELITE SKILL:~

Mantra of Insanity: Meditate, charging a spell that will incite madness into your target.
~Perplexed. Bewildered. Hallucination.~
Cooldown: 10 sec
Preparation Time: 2 3/4 sec
||
V
Power Coax: Afflicts the enemy’s mind with insanity, massively damaging them every second that they aren’t using abilities for the duration.
Cooldown: 10 sec
Range: 1,200
~Insanity: Receiving massive damage while not using abilities.~
~Insanity Duration: 3 sec~
~Insanity Damage: X~
Notes: Enemy players hit by this spell in PvP will suffer from a screen-blur effect similar to the bobblehead laboratory for the duration.

~Possible Trait Ideas:~

-Minor Trait 1-
La Commedia: You can equip scepters in the off-hand slot and gain access to Harlequin Tricks skills. Gain access to the Inversion shatter skill, which allows you to change the effects of your ordinary Shatter skills to cause them to produce illusions.

~Other Traits:~

Stage Presence: Using a Trick or an Inverted Shatter fully heals all currently active illusions and gives them Distortion for 2 seconds. 10 sec internal recharge.

Chaotic Embrace: Your Inverted Shatters instead generate 1 random phantasm.

Ethereal Rejuvenation: Using Tricks and Inverted Shatters heals you. Heal each second while under the effects of Persuasion.

Master Prankster: Your Phantasms daze opponents when they attack. Your Phantasmal Jester inflicts burning.

Hideous Laughter: When ‘Revealed’, you project a haunting Laughter into the minds of nearby enemies. Laughter: If this enemy activates a skill, they are feared for 3 seconds. Lasts 2 seconds. 20 sec internal cooldown.

Trickster’s Wit: Tricks give 1 second of evasion and 3 seconds of Vigor.

Trained Performer: Reduces recharge on Trick skills.

Illusionary Circus: Your Phantasms can now dodge roll.

-Zen

Nearly every Elite Specialization gets a new F* utility, without sacrificing the old, so why should ours be merged into/replace an existing one? On the subject of the UI, yes, that can do with a bit of a makeover perhaps, but I don’t mind how it looks as-is. There’s bigger issues with how our numerous in-game buffs will go in a conga line all the way to the right side of the screen, disappearing under the mini-map—if you got enough of them—when talking about the aesthetics of the UI that is. That affects every player, regardless of their profession (unless you run the game at 4K, I guess, never tried that).

The balance to our Continuum Shift, is its destructibility, you can counter it by targeting the Continuum Rift placed in the world. Players are not used to spotting it, nor to take it out, yet. This will come with time. Our counter to this again, is to make use of clever placement, lockdown and so on forth (all with their own counters). We got a rather short period of time to make use of it however, so we can’t exactly drop it around a corner, run for a few seconds and then do our skills. By its very design, it’ll often be placed in sight for the enemy to focus. If they don’t deal with it, that’s not our fault, is it?

I don’t see any reason as to why we need to sacrifice more than one of our Trait lines. Taking Chronomancer over our other preexisting lines, comes with certain sacrifices. Let’s not pretend it doesn’t. While our new line gives something for everyone, it also is taking the place of something else. And with us being a profession incredibly reliant on our Traits, more so than most other professions, it’s not without sacrifice that you pick up Chronomancer.

I think people tend to forget that Mesmer, is a relatively difficult profession to get into. A difficult profession to master. Most players acknowledge this. It’s a profession that require some skill to play. In turn, this means that the average Mesmer you will be facing, is inherently a relatively skilled player, maybe more so than your average player of another profession. When every Mesmer you face, is inherently relatively skilled, this can create a skewed perception of the professions “power” to someone playing a different profession. Thus, we face the “QQ”, complaints and nerf requests at a steady rate.

Daniel Handler.4816:

We exchange one tyrant for another.

And this is bad how?
I still don’t quite see the problem with this. Others are brought to stack might, to spam their #1 skill or place banners. In a multi-class-multi-role environment, you will want to break down everyone to their strongest aspect, make them focus that exclusively, then mix on a macro (group / zerg / raid) level to achieve what you want to do.

That is to say, instead of everyone doing 50% damage, 30% healing and 20% buffing individually, you want 5 DDs, 3 Healers and 2 Buffers in your 10-man group.

Ok, this thread is turning into a gross version of a ‘I play how I want’ whinefest.

Here’s the deal: Raids are hard. If you want to play successfully in a raid, you don’t get to play how you want.

Every class is going to have a particular thing that they’re best at. In a raid team, that aspect will be focused on, built around, and added to the whole. For an Elementalist, this is 90% damage rotations with a side dish of fields now and then. For warrior this is banners, ea, and the Warbanner res with a side dish of damage rotations.

For the Chronomancer, this is alacrity and quickness. We provide alacrity and quickness through a full build, sets of skills, traits, and rotations.

Don’t like what the Chronomancer is capable of doing? Too bad. Don’t want to run 5 wells when optimization calls for 5 wells? Too bad. We’re not eles. We’re not warriors. We’re not Druids. Each class has a different role, a different reason to be present on a raid team. If all the classes could literally do the same stuff, this would be the most boring game in the world. Whining about not wanting to do this or that just because you don’t like it is equivalent to if your ele showed up in settlers gear and said ’I’m bored with my dps role, so I’ve decided to do healing with a bit of condition damage today’. You’d kick that ele without thinking twice, just as everyone else will kick you without thinking twice if you stubbornly refuse to run what is optimal.

The only thing that matters is that our role now truly takes a full build and playstyle to achieve instead of just 1 or 2 utility drops regardless of anything else you did.

Or interrupt mesmer if you dig that thing, we have a lot more roles in WvW with HoT, you just need to be more creative. Pop nullfield + gravity well and you’ll trap a plenty of enemy that depend on stability rather than blink. Do it again with Continuum and you’ll guarantee to down 3-5 or more people if your WvW group is competent.

Alternatively use continuum, mimic and warps (daddy and mini warps) to make opponent suffer from uncleanseable and pulsing slow while boost your group with high quickness uptime.

If you’re truly looking for pure damage, shatter still works for backline. Calamity + tides of time still works well with iLeap for locking people and shattering. Sure we still do mediocre damage against the main frontline, but but we have a lot more ways to build traits than the ever-the-same WvW staff ele build.

Ultimately, the difference comes in what you’re actually doing.

What will our role be? It’ll be to provide alacrity and quickness.

Is this a bad thing? Not really. Veilbot and portalbot roles sucked because we were literally taken for a single or two utility skills. Not for our skill, not for a build or capabilities of what we did, purely to be able to press one or two skills on our bar.

What is our role? Alacrity and quickness. What is the role of an ele? Damage. What’s the functional difference between these? There isn’t any. They’re just different words, different roles to play.

To effectively provide full dps requires a build and fully effective playstyle for an ele. To effectively provide alacrity and quickness requires a build and fully effective playstyle from a Chronomancer.

Ultimately, they’re equally valid, complex, and important parts of a party. A Veilbot is a 1 button wonder that would be just as good with no weapons or traits or utilities other than veil. A chrono support build is truly a full build designed and played to fit a particular role on the team.

I am not saying all elite specs are op or anything even near that. I am saying that most of them will need balancing before and after release. Considering that not every player in the pvp base will purchase HoT but many will still be dedicated pvp players I propose this. Please do not balance anything in the core specs around Elite specialization. What I mean is do not make a balance decision based on the fact that lets say scrapper has access to something that core engineer doesn’t that might be game breaking or otherwise. Do all the adjustments to scrapper and scrapper alone. Balance engineer on its own as if scrapper were nonexistent.

Now this may seem like common sense but some decision (not all) have defied it before. This separation will be key in pvp balance.

I keep wondering this. When some people lose they come to beg for nerfs. This tends to happen long before they look at the build, try to figure out counter, or even hit the wall (where you know you can’t beat it but others can). It leads me to the idea that perhaps some people feel they should win consistently. And that goes more than just for the loser but the winners too. Some seem to over evaluate how much of the victory was their skills vs the build itself.

Generally if I play a build and I win too easily I question if I should run it. Whether someone else agree is op or up I think about it and it’s counters. I set in my mind my personal pvp skills to mediocre/average and then consider how much work I have to put in to win, survive, lose etc. I consider builds that might counter mine and how much they have the potential to shut me down.

I do not say all this as bragging but I wonder each time I see a random nerf thread did the person play the class first? How long? Did they try a counter build? How many? and more questions like this.

I understand defending a build you like ( I do it too). Yet I still ask more questions. Do you know the counter? Have you ever been easily countered? If not perhaps a player might want to think about it. The same way a player can write an angry post about how “OP” build x is another player might defend it to the end.

In the long run I think for many it boils down to 1 issue. They like winning.

I think in many cases they like winning more than they like being better players. Kind of like a trophy that says you are worth something. I know they sound the same but they aren’t due to some caveats. Winning might be more important than actually practicing and improving. A player can win a match and see the new victory as some metric of how good they are. Another player could lose a match and see where they are improving and try to improve further.

I think that might be the difference to focus on for some people. Rather than a loss or trying to get class x nerfed improvement might be the answer (this is not an absolute mind you as nerfs and buffs are part of balancing). I rarely see this among veterans but new players from time to time come and ask for advice how how to build in general or how to beat class/build x. I think there is value in the mind set that your timing can get quicker, your build could be stronger, and that your knowledge of other builds can lead not to wins necessarily but more competitive play.

Just some thoughts.

Doug Whisper.2465:

Isn’t destroy the point of CS can stop it and pull the Mesmer back the that point?

It does, but people ignore the obvious and cry regardless.

Haste.8610:

FJSAMA.2867:

The “combo” you discribe only can happen on 1st encounter on pvp when all CDs available, and cause of that easily countered… You know its coming.
Remember if u want to use cs mid match for sure you will have some skills on CD and activating cs will just prolong that CDs.
Its, at max, a 5 seconds time window… just kite. Wells are static on ground, rest of combo easly telegraphed.

TL:DR > l2p

How do I say this with out sounding mean.. You didn’t think about what you said at all.

You didn’t either..

It’s a short, 90s cd kitten combo.

Do you know how long 90s is in a fight?
You must not, you must be running around auto attacking, because waiting 90s to do something is a death sentence in pvp.

Kite? A mesmer? Sure go ahead, have all 5 members kite and lose the point because of the massive AOE shatter + Gravity Well.

It doesn’t take 5 people to kill a mes, and if 5 people are on a point with no stability or stun breaks and they walk into red circles then you may need to rethink your team comp and the skill level of the people you play with.
If this is a regular occurrence for you in your spvp match-ups I hate to tell you, but your MMR may be really low.

Waste your defensives to get away from it. Don’t forget shattering slows you know so kiting is that much harder.

slow=/=movement impairment

Congrats, you got away, no come back after losing the point and retake it- Oh wait, the entire thing can be done -again-.

Brush up on your game terms please

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Glossary_of_video_game_terms#Cooldown

with the alacrity nerf you aren’t going to have BWE1 CD reduction unless you trait for it.

I play a Mesmer, only a Mesmer. This is to strong, all I’m suggesting is that they either lengthen the CD or shorten the window you have to combo.

Try playing more pvp with people who don’t let clones sit around.
The combo you listed either needs 3 clones and your opponent to be completely oblivious to mesmer mechanics OR afk.

mistsim.2748:

nah trust me. not supcutie + friend issue. I play at the top mmr, so I face people of similar caliber every day. this build is nuts. I’m sure he’d be happy to tell u that.

anyway, thanks for the bumps. make sure to keep this thread going for the devs.

I’m afraid I can’t trust you on this one. Someone that would make a thread like this is very questionably skilled, which would place you low on mmr.

Chokolata.1870:

See most people have assumed that I am either new at the game or completely oblivious to how Mesmer works. Neither is the case. I have quite a lot of games played. The issue is that the build can pump up so many conditions that I can’t keep up and simply run out of CDs to burn.

I am constantly being pressured by 6-7+ stacks of both torment and bleeding cleanse after cleanse alongside poison, burning and other fluff you mentioned. In the last game I played I was on my Ranger with the survival power build, which has as good condition removal as one can get on a Ranger, and after burning all my CDs to condi cleanse I was left exposed and my HP dropped from 100% to 20% within 3-4 seconds. I simply ran out of CDs. And I did not use my CDs to burn fluff as you have said.

So, my question from start is:

- Since Anet is very heavy handed in nerfing obnoxious spam builds, why does this exist where someone can just keep dodging, stealthing and spamming conditions at an insane amount.

There is no way you ended up in the situation if you didn’t Hit the block and eat the shatters.

Your HP no way got that low unless you spammed skills or were facing a burst power mesmer and you didn’t notice.

No matter how good you think you are you will get exposed as spammer if you are dying quick to it. There are no if and or buts about it.

Now to break it down further. The only way you got poison from the mesmer is if you sat in chaos storm or he had a sigil of doom in. In either case it should not have sustained long at 1 stack (possibly 2).

The bleeds mesmer (really) would be staff and clones (winds of chaos + sharper image) or Pistols phantasm. However if that were the case there would be no constant stealth. You could have used birds and had all those bleeds tossed back on you by the mesmer too (generosity or thievery).

Which likely means you let the clones stand or that damage came from else where.

Read 1,2, and 2.5.

My guess is you closed the gap and ate the shatters not maximizing 4→2→3 combo on long bow + taunt. Left all the clones standing and payed 0 attention to animations. Rushed in with the GS tried to land 3 and failed a lot.

In any case if you were not dueling then you just had a bad team. As a power (burst I hope so) you should have won unless you were getting reflected a lot but you said you went down to conditions solely. I have no doubt you got out played because a proper power burst with cc should have ate half his health real quick.

So if your story is true you are indeed completely oblivious to how mesmer works. Read my first post. And yes I play pew pew ranger a bit too.

People are assuming that you’re either new or oblivious because there are obvious and direct counters to the stuff you’re whining about. Since you obviously either don’t know them or are unwilling to use them, there’s a limited number of conclusions we can draw about you.

Condi mesmers aren’t really ideal for sPvP. Sure, if you give them enough time, they are a fairly strong dueling class. But they are extremely slow in practical utility, and time is of essence in every game.

If you take 1-2 minutes to outduel someone and decap a point, its really inefficient and can be really bad against more mobile teams.

For most solo queue games, the stealth, mobility, and the use of portal far outweighs any other builds/traits mesmer has. I cannot tell you the amount of times I’ve created mismatches just through the use of portal alone.

For example: Forest of Nifthel, I invis to enemy home point and lay down a portal. Next, I pop out of invis to steal the boss. Then, I run to keep (while luring the rest of the enemy team with me) and watch their home point. As soon as everyone leaves, I portal back to their home point and cap it. Next, I wait for 1-2 enemy members to realize their home is being taken and run from keep back to home. Finally, I portal back and help team stomp keep (which is now usually a 4v3 mismatch).

This alone creates a 60+ point swing within the first minute, and does much more than any condi mesmer build that takes 2 minutes to kill something.

…

4 things to see and avoid:
iCounter – insanely easy to see and not proc
Confusing Images – obvious animation
Shatters – easy to avoid with a tiny bit of brainpower
iDuelist Unload – easy to avoid/LoS

Everything else is fluff – illusion auto attacks, ineptitude/BD confusion procs and so on. The damage is easily mitigated.

If you avoid iCounter you will never be hit with double figure stacks of torment. If you avoid confusing images, same for confusion.
If someone blows 3+ shatters in a row just to condi burst you, they’re ripe for the counter attack.

Most mesmers shatter predictably so can be anticipated and dodged/blocked/evaded if you know how they will play. I’ve been in many “stalemates” with mesmers in the past (on different builds – power and condi and different classes) because we could easily read each others shatters and avoid them.

Oh nevermind that:
Confusion – if ~5+ stacks, don’t spam skills. Cleanse or kite.
Torment – if <~3 stacks, ignore. If more, cleanse or be careful with unnecessary movement.

I wish you could counter insane burning/poison/bleed stacks in the same way.

Fay.2357:

You’re making an awful lot of claims about how strong you are with this build ozzy. How about you make us a video so we can all have a good chuckle?

Every time you have asked someone to do this, they never do.
I wonder why :P

Also @Ozzy

When you are dazed you can still dodge roll, use utilites, and move.

So I’m not sure how people are sitting still long enough for you to ramp up 12 stacks of confusion unless they are AFK.
Then again if all you do is go to hotjoin games. I could see the issue.
Lastly.
When a build is grossly OP and can actually benefit a team most of the top teams will find some way to exploit it.
When was the last time you saw a condie mes in a tpvp team?

You’re making an awful lot of claims about how strong you are with this build ozzy. How about you make us a video so we can all have a good chuckle?

READ AND LEARN or Continue to whine

I am going to be a bit rude with this post because the counters are really simple.

Since the numerous passive traits were removed from this build (it has been nerfed into the ground for a while mind you) this is strictly a l2p issue. I mean this not as an insult but cold hard fact.

1. For the shatters kill the clones. They will have no uptime vs any competent cleaver. Clones dead equal no shatter burst.

2. Dodge the laser. Confusing Images has a 2 second cast if you dodge when you see it coming or on the first hit you will get very little of it.

2.5 Never hit the block. Illusionary counter (scepter 2) applies 5 stacks of torment. Most players in my mmr (not high or anything but this is consistent) just don’t hit it. No dodging required as the mesmer can’t attack outside instant skills (like shatters) for the duration. Animation is a raised forearm.

1 and 2/2.5 alone and you have avoided most of the damage that could have been done to you hooray!

3. Bring a cleanse. This is common sense but mesmer doesn’t have much in the way of cover condis. Application can be high but not lasting.

4. Time your attacks. This is common sense. Condi mesmer pushes button spamming. Confusion and torment will not tick like a burn. You end up killing yourself by just spamming skills.

5. For PU apply condis. PU mesmers generally have weak condition management (vs Inspiration which have strong but weak stealth if any at all). If you apply condis many will have to back off.

6. STOP DUELING wait I forgot something STOP DUELING LIKE A NOOB. A good team or even a pug will have a guard or ele or inspiration mesmer than can clear condis for the group. If they are doing their job due to the lack of cover condis mesmer conditions are on the easy side to handle.

7. Generosity is your best friend. Much like Burn guard condi mesmer is weak at covering for itself so sending back the confusion and torment is pretty simple.

8. Call Target. Most condi mesmers will not stand up to spike for long if at all. Ctrl + T and have your team just burst.

9. Last but not least there is not much room to nerf it. Condi mesmer is actually one of the weakest condi builds. It has none of the burst of burn and none of the cover of engi and necro. It is hard countered (very hard) by signet necro and AoE. It has been nerfed of every passive condi application (confusion damage has been nerfed too). It is nearly a pure skill based build as in literally there are no lucky procs or on crit traits. The mesmer did all the work.

I can understand your point but this build will catch a bad player “slipping” every single time. A good player knows all of this already.

Now you know how to beat a condi mes. Your welcome.

Novuake.2691:

skcamow.3527:

ozzy.8059:

you will be able to maintain 12 stacks of confusion and watch your enemy kill its self.

Which is a major l2p issue. Players with half a brain won’t do this. If this has been your experience, you definitely haven’t been fighting good players.

Yes because thats all that matters.

Remove it, get double dmg, leave it and let it tick? I think not.

Remove it and hopefully the larger stacks drop of because you knwo? RNG and esports makes sense.

Its stupid how SPAMMY it is.
Same goes for Engi conditions.

Your essentially clearing in the hopes of the worst one dropping of when you need it too, its just WORSE with confusion because each one hits harder the more you fail to cleanse confusion.

If they reintroduce a reliable clearing method(left to right for example), I would agree with you. But the way it is now is kittening RNG, which is downright kittened.

Uh.. Well the thing is that it could.. Be avoided.

Take a second and clear out thoughts of “spam” and “cancer” and analyze what the class is actually doing. Ima explain it assuming you’re actually open-minded about learning to beat the build rather than mindless ranting/complaining.

- Damage sources: Scepter block (6x torment) – Confusion (average of 3 persistent stacks. 6 with a full scepter channel)

- What can they do in stealth Hide and heal and.. That’s about it.

What does this mean?

You may not be able to kill the Condi mes, but with even the slightest thought to how you play and how the build does damage will keep them from killing you.

ozzy.8059:

you will be able to maintain 12 stacks of confusion and watch your enemy kill its self.

Which is a major l2p issue. Players with half a brain won’t do this. If this has been your experience, you definitely haven’t been fighting good players.

Chokolata.1870:

I feel like this is a proper question to ask. And before you attack me that I need to learn to play, I actually know the build and what it does.

My question is, since Anet is very heavy handed in nerfing builds that are bad for the game, why is Mesmer allowed to constantly stealth and just dodge all the while pumping out insane amounts of conditions that, even if you fully go for condition removal, are simply impossible to cleanse.

This is from a Ranger and Warrior perspective.

To answer your question, its because the build is smothered by myths and falsetalk than facts. Condition Mes has already been heavily nerfed and the majority of its passive play has been stripped with the removal of clone-death traits.

Here’s a tip against any Condi mes, pu or otherwise: Only one attack does burst damage and there’s only one condition you need to worry about cleansing: Torment. The only way they can do meaningful damage to an opponent that pays attention is with the scepter block/counter. Players like Ozzy shouldn’t even be able to touch you. Confusion damage should be minor in most cases.

All the stealth and other stuff is just fluff, a PU Mesmer is at a disadvantage in PvP and is one of the least useful Mesmer builds when played improperly (which is 90%) of the time. Anet doesn’t balance around duels, and when’s the last time you’ve heard of a Condi Mesmer being a threat outside of a 1v1?

ozzy.8059:

im playing it right now.because im so sick of it.

now i have never played condi mesmer before, infact im terrible at mesmer (350+ping) so i lag and cant dodge some attacks because they are to fast no matter how early i react thanks to ping. i have won almost all my 1v1’s so far bar an engie with flamethrower…

i practically turn team fights with 6 stacks of confusion on the target and chaos storm wreaking havoc. i can even jump into the middle of it and get some shatters off because i have way to many ways to mitigate damage.

its godmode cheese cancer even necros die to me because signets cant transfer to what you cant see/blocking/invulnerable targets its a joke.

This post.. Is everything wrong with the playerbase asking for nerfs.

You practically turn teamfights by.. Pressing 3 with the scepter on a target too incompetent to press dodge or carry any sort of cleanse? 6 stacks of confusion on one target is making a difference in a teamfight? Is this hotjoin?

It must be hotjoin.. If chaos storm is “wreaking havoc” in a condition build and you pressing random f-keys to beat people.

You can scream “cheese” and"cancer" all you like, but if the above are your examples of why then its fairly obvious your experiences aren’t coming from someone who fights even average players. Confusion and shatters aren’t even what makes the build decent, neither are clones.

Daniel Handler.4816:

Fay.2357:

@Kent:

The skills are modeled after their counterparts, but if it’s illusionary unload instead of just unload, then it should occupy a separate database entry and probably wouldn’t be accidentally changed. I don’t know for sure though, haven’t tested.

I know this.

The point I am try to make this that they MUST buff the damage on the duelist, or else they are going against the very logic by which they buffed unload. It the damage doesn’t cut in on the skills we model then our skills must too be changed.

No they don’t. This is ridiculous logic. Some of the Phantasms may use skills very similar to other professions but they aren’t linked to them.

They balance the Mesmer’s offense based on what the Mesmer can bring to the table. The same for thieves. Thieves got their pistol skills buffed because the pistol set was under performing and they wanted to make it a more attractive option. The Duelist is already an excellent Phantasm and performs well. Any buffs it would require would be because it’s under performing in the Mesmer kit.

ozzy.8059:

im playing this kitten build right now dude…. bad players or not they all die, i dont use clones to try fool people i use them to shatter and cause more problems for my enemy, stealth lets me sit there regenerate and watch them melt for a bit before my next burst

i can keep 6 stacks of confusion on them all the time, condi cleanses are stuck behind a large cd way longer then the speed i can stack conditions. i have 1 reflect 1 invulnerability 3 stealth sources cc and a block as well as a condi transfer, even a necro cant kill me because its gear does not work unless they can see me or i am not blocking/invulnerable, even if they get a lucky one off i just shove it right back on them.

it i literally my first time playing this spec and i rarely play mesmer in general i should be a free lootbag, imagine if i actually knew what i was doing

it could just be my mmr but these people are alot harder to beat on other classes

ps i didn’t even need to look up metabattle the build is obvious if you just read the traits while picking them…….

You lost all credibility when you posted the story about how you never played mesmer before, started playing with a condi build and people just started dropping left and right of you, winning “almost all my 1v1s” despite the fact you have 350+ ping and can’t dodge.

You should really try harder when making up stories about certain build’s op’ness, because what you said makes it pretty obvious you’re either lying or have never played a condi mesmer.

Also, you have a post history of qq-ing about mesmer, here’s a gem:
“i can go nuts on clones all day, the mesmer can produce them faster then you can kill them and you are doing exactly what the mesmer wants you to do, stand next to the clones so it can shatter them. here is an example
i can put down 2 wells and the clones are still standing after this.. with more being pumped out at the same time, it takes a full life transfer to take out the clones, (as if the mesmer is going to let that happen) this is on my tanky build with 2k power 3k defence and bloodlust with 45% crit chance.”

I won’t take anything you say about mesmer serious after this.

Condi mesmer is mediocre at best and fades in comparison to every other meta condi build. It’s frustrating to play against, but that doesn’t make it op. You people need to accept that simple fact and take your qq elsewhere.

I was going to add this to a topic by Chaos Archangel on (Are Condi Mesmer not supposed to be a thing), but I thought this needs a new topic on it own as if more focus on the class as a problem not just condition.

My thought’s on why, the class in itself paying for all the nerf, cries and complaint that is attached to it in PVP.

There are 4 reason why I see the Mesmer class has this problem. There are more but i will only stick to what i believe are the major cooperate.

PU, no condi clean/all zerk builds and clones. Now add Bad / new players to the mix you have your problem.

I can’t even say which is the biggest cooperate but it seems everyone keeps pointing at PU and not looking at the class as a whole.

Good players understand where am coming from but majority of the player base don’t see the bigger picture, but only point a finger at one trait that other class also have access to.

PU = Stealth.

We have stealth like most other classes like thief, ranger etc, but different is we can also summon illusions that does our dirty deed for us. (Yes they might not be strong), but enough to distract bad players, and those bad players can’t tell the different between real or illusions so the run after everything while we wait and plan our next attack.

Also because all these bad players read the same site the same forum and follow the same act (Meta build/zerk/no clean). Plus they may have come from other mmo’s (wow) where some class are just to powerful (Rouges, Paladin, Warriors) the roll that class and expect the same in GW2, or watch some guy on YouTube who is very skilled at his/her class or some guy who is just face rolling bad players, they not think that can also achieve this with little to no training or time spent of the class but find out this is not they case.

All these and more further adds fuel to fire why they think the class is OP.

As you can see, the common factor in the two examples I have used are the bad players. Not PU but simply bad players that don’t understand the game/class mechanic.

I know when I first started the game over 3 years ago and went up against a Mesmer, i could not tell the difference between the real and illusions. (Then there was clone death which made things even worse). But I have since learnt the game, Learnt the class and all other class and what they are all about, learnt their strength and weaknesses and know how to fight and counter them. Yes it was frustrating at first but that is the beauty of playing any game or doing anything. You face the challenge and over come it.

People / Players don’t want to go through the hard effort of learning each class and how to counter, They just want to be given the OP class so they can start wining. And if these doesn’t work they way they have envision it, they cry.

I mean how many times has anyone read, “Am new what is the best class to play, best class to level, OP class comment”?

Mesmer class is surfing because of these people not knowing what to do, not taking time to learn or the just follow blindly hoping to achieve the same skills as the people that made that build.

I do think Phantasms are actually a major toxin to this profession and have been since day 1. They were poorly conceived from the start. Something definitely needs to change but IMO the real problem is that the phantasms are acting, from a mechanical standpoint, as pets, and therefor are being thought of and treated as such..

Allow me to explain.

In reality, the Mesmer is not a “pet” profession, and I don’t believe it was ever intended to be. Giving us the responsibility of having to manage or in any way babysit any of the illusions which we decide to conjure is the ACTUAL self-defeating quality to the Mesmer, as it goes against our purpose. If you want a pet class, that’s what Necros and Rangers are for, not even just in this game, but across all MMOs. Necro’s are the summoners, raising minions to do their bidding, and Rangers are the tamers, befriending creatures and forming psychological bonds with them. Mesmers don’t fit anywhere into that dynamic, and again, I don’t think they were ever intended to.

The Mesmer is, by definition, an Illusionist. What does that mean exactly? Well, I’m pretty sure it means that our only goal in creating illusions should be for the sole purpose of either A) diverting the enemy’s attention or/and shattering them for special effects. I think Anet has forgotten this, and I think the real issue lies in the simple truth that the Mesmer as a concept is very demanding from a design perspective. One could even argue that the Mesmer has, in essence, successfully “confounded” the very people who designed it. It’s a result of the profession’s naturally convoluted and extremely confusing way of doing things. Us Mesmers? We’re twisted. Insane. Absolutely bonkers. The profession is meant to reflect this. It’s SUPPOSED to be confusing, and in a way, it’s part of our own advantage. The more confused WE are (the ones playing the Mesmers), then what chance does the enemy stand at predicting our actions, if we can’t even fully predict ourselves?

I got a little sidetracked, but it’s still relative to the point I’m making here. The point is, I think Anet, in all their attempts to create this ideal profession of chaos and confusion, made themselves confused somewhere along the way, and made a few poor base-design choices. So what exactly is the solution..?

In my opinion its something like this:

In order to keep the Mesmer feeling like a Mesmer, and in order to actually bring it even further in line with being the proper illusionist it was always supposed to be, Phantasms need to change from a mechanical standpoint. They need to be taken out of certain trait lines, they need to be taken off of certain weapons, and their role when conjured needs to be re-imagined in a way that is more focused and logical.

In other words, the Mesmer’s damage potential needs to be taken out of Phantasms entirely, and put back into the two places where it properly belongs: The Mesmer his/herself, and the Shatter mechanic.

Now I know that idea probably offends a lot of people, particularly those who think a Mesmer’s power is already too concentrated into Shatters.

I read a lot about people who love playing Phantasm Mes because of the “pet class” feel it gives. They like having their Phantasms around who they can rely on to do all their damage. But it needs to happen. It’s the only hope for the future of the Mesmer. The profession needs to be brought home to the place where it truly lives.. not as a pet class or a summoner, but as an ILLUSIONIST, a deceiver, one who’s power is his own and not a “pet”. Illusions are NOT sentient beings, they aren’t even real. They are SUPPOSED to be figments of the enemy’s imagination, not an actual physical entity that the Mesmer should ever have to have a second thought about, unless that second thought is “disperse”. And to the Mesmer’s who will shed tears over the loss of their precious phantasm DPS pets? I would say too bad. If being a pet tamer was your intent going into this game, then I repeat, that’s what Rangers and Necro’s are for. The moment when a “pet build” became an available option to the Mesmer in the form of Phantasms is the moment when the future of the profession as a tried and true illusionist was compromised.

People don’t like conditions. If they take a 10k backstab from stealth it’s fine, but confusion ticking during 6s for 1.5k damage is OP.

Yes, condi mesmer suffers from a lot of QQing in other parts of the forum (mostly from WvW roamers). You could expect that with the stealth nerf, this will change, but when people start to hate a build, it takes long to undo it (people still complain about mesmer power bursts even after the mirror blade nerf, while it is infinitely more counterable than a backstab)

Also, DD would not have been OP in any real situation. In theory, against a dummy, 3 iDuelist + mesmer sword AA was a higher DPS in sinister/rampager than 3 swordsman+mesmer AA on a berserker build (not by much). When is the last time you managed to keep 3 duelists alive in PvP???

It seems that the devs are unbelievably skittish about condie Mesmer strength in 1v1, while simultaneously neglecting the effectiveness of these builds in actual fights. This has been consistent throughout the entire game. Mesmer condie builds are usually great duelists, but patently awful in a real fight.

This results in really wonky balancing, because it simultaneously ensures that there will be a nonstop stream of complaints about these builds because people hate losing duels, but also makes them useless in PvP or WvW outside of roaming.

It’s a really awkward situation, and needs better resolution.