Guild Wars 2

You guys are making some really good points, thanks.

Do you guys think this should be a higher priority than other changes? Why?

evildeadjunky.1576:

Maybe cause its stupid that you have to load like 3 screens to do it?

You can directly join a custom arena from anywhere. You do not need to be in the Heart of the Mists anymore.

Lupanic.6502:

You really think if a new player is able to select from a pool of traits he is fine but if he gets 1 new trait per line he is lost? Come on.

Again, this system is forward looking. If we just unlocked the 40 new traits now, what about next time? It will always just be X more. We have to draw a line somewhere, and here is probably the best place to start.

Deimos Tel Arin.7391:

justin, could you confirm with us, that the newly unlocked traits would be account bound, once unlocked? because this is how it works for guild wars 1, once unlocked, is account wide. i expect the same in guild wars 2.

I don’t know, but I’ll bug Josh and Allie about it and see if they can get it answered on Ready Up tomorrow.

Lord Kuru.3685:

No. If you have more options than your opponent, then you are potentially more powerful because at worst you can have the same build as him.

That isn’t the worst case scenario, you could just as well have an inferior build because you chose options that don’t work well together or with your play style. More options make coming up with good builds increasingly difficult, especially for beginners, because there are so many more things to consider and each must be weighed against alternative choices (opportunity cost.)

Lord Kuru.3685:

Plus, “barring any balance issues” is actually a big deal. You can bet these will cause balance issues (unless they’re intentionally bad like the new healing skills).

Definitely a concern, but that will mean little to new players who don’t know the current state of balance anyways.

Shockwave.1230:

Did the company change their moto from “When it’s done™” to “coming out soon™”

I think it happened sometime after release. :P

Xista.7391:

But lets say I wanted to play my friend’s spec, because it’s really good. But I can’t, because I don’t have certain traits unlocked. That to me feels really bad.

This exact scenario is on our radar, and we definitely want to make it possible. Hopefully you’ll get a better idea of what we have in mind when we talk about the new rewards system.

Rubik.7192:

PvP gives us a tiny bit of coin. No matter how much you play pvp, you won’t be able to make as much as your average pveer. What’s the point in implementing “horizontal” progression when pveers can unlock the new traits multiple times faster than pvpers?

That is a valid concern, one worthy of its own thread. I should mention that this is only part of the rewards we have planned. We should have a blog post about that coming out soon™, but I’m not sure where it is in the schedule.

Nineaxis.1826:

snip.

Please do not presume to speak for all players. As a PvP player, I disagree with you, and I know others that do as well.

If you want to turns this into a numbers game, please do keep in mind that the vast majority of PvP players play PvE and WvW as well. We definitely want to make the game fun and enjoyable for PvP-only players as well, but we need to keep a broader context when designing systems.

sorrow.2364:

Is there at least a way to obtain those traits without spending money in PvP? For instance, back in GW1, you were able to unlock skills with factions, whose main purpose was that.

It would be great to allow players in the new reward system to be able to unlock those traits without paying gold, which can be spent in a lot of other ways (and trait isn’t exactly the way I want to spend golds on).

It could be, for instance, by paying tournament win tokens to a vendor?

I know it’s something we were discussing when we were talking about the new reward system, but I do not recall were we landed. I will bring it up with the team again. I know I’d like to see it.

Xista.7391:

So Justin just confirmed that sPvP will be vertical progression. You need to unlock abilities. I’m sorry, but unlocking new traits = vertical progression to me.

I have to disagree. If it meant more skills available to you at one time while you are playing, then yes it would be vertical, but that just isn’t the case. You get more trait choices, not more traits applied to your character.

Olvendred.3027:

Then why make a distinction? If PvP can happily go along with players getting 12/13 traits per line, why add an extra layer of frustration and difficulty instead of giving them 13/13 traits per line? It’s obviously nothing to do with easing new players in.

If it were only an additional trait, you’d more of a have a point, but we’re introducing this system with the future in mind. I can’t speak for the Skills and Combat teams long turn plans, but I know I would be disappointed if we stopped with just these new traits.

Olvendred.3027:

Horizontal progression is a nice concept… but it’s one that I’ve never seen mentioned on the PvP forums, only the PvE ones. If you want to get more players in to PvP, somehow I don’t think keeping back build options is the way to go about it.

Horizontal progression is very common, even in PvP games. Personally, I think one of the reason’s PvP rewards seem somewhat hollow is that we have no real progression beyond looks. I think you would be hard pressed (outside one-off games like most FPS and RTSs) to find a successful game without progression. As a PvP player, I love this change (disclaimer: I had no design input) and can’t wait for the 15th.

Come on guys, lets be more productive here. Saying we don’t care isn’t just wrong, it shuts down and discourages dialog between developers and players.

Don’t get me wrong, you can certainly express your opinions and frustrations, but just because we are heading in a direction you personally don’t agree with doesn’t mean we don’t care or that we are ignoring you.

Now lets get this thread back on track.

As Roy mentioned in another thread, all the current traits will remain unlocked in PvP, even for new players. It is only new traits that need to be unlocked, and you will not have to PvE to obtain them.

Also, this system is designed for horizontal progression. Unlocking traits, or what have you, won’t (at least shouldn’t, barring any balance issues) make you more powerful, they simply give you a wider range of builds and allow you to better tune your character to your play style. Many, many successful games ease players into options, and, in my opinion, trait unlocking isn’t any different.

I understand some of you are worried that we’re just adding stuff and ignoring existing problems. I can assure you, as I sit within earshot of the Skills and Combat team, that they are very aware of this and have no plans to ignore existing issues.