Guild Wars 2

WatchTheShow.7203:

Crazylegsmurphy.6430:

Kiriwar.7382:

I’m mostly upset that they had to have -high heels.-

I mean… really? really?

Wearing high heels means you’re no longer capable? You do realize these robots transform into other creatures to fight ya? But, even if they didn’t what does wearing high heels have to do with their abilities or presence?

Women choose to wear heels all the time, and I don’t think that makes them any less of a women.

Now….lets look at this from another perspective. When you fight, or play sports, you don’t typically stand flat footed. Humans distribute their weight on the balls of their feet so they can quickly move.

That is why soccer cleats have more spikes at the toes, and only a few at the heels. So, from a fighting perspective, these “high heels” aren’t really an issue.

In the end, it’s just a design choice. It’s meant to make them look taller, and more sleek (just like real high heels). I don’t think the intention was to make them some porn-bot with the intention of being someone secretary, and bending over to pick up dropped Skritt bottles.

No no no no no no no no. NO. Until you have worn high heels yourself, you are not allowed to say high heels do not affect ones abilities. Comparing them to soccer cleets? I would pick soccer cleets any day of the week. First, high heels make you very, VERY wobbley. Extremely unstable. Try walking, running, or even going up stairs on your tippy toes. Without killing yourself. That’s on a hard surface. If you step into the grass or dirt, your high heel sinks 100% into the squishy ground and you come tumbling down. Don’t walk over a grate, or an uneven surface. Forget trying to walk on a gravel road too. High heels are notorious for having no grip to them. Don’t stand on something smooth or wet cuz your feet will come right out from under you. Running in high heels? Nope. Forget it. If I were being chased by a dog and all I had on were heels, the heels would get kicked off first and I would go barefoot. Last but not least, they are uncomfortable. I can’t wear them for more than an hour before my feet cramp up and hurt.

haha I love this. I can’t believe some people. Running in heels really? They obviously haven’t watched last week’s episode of true blood. Seriously, that’s exactly what it looks like when two women are chasing each other in heels.

Crazylegsmurphy.6430:

Kiriwar.7382:

I’m mostly upset that they had to have -high heels.-

I mean… really? really?

Wearing high heels means you’re no longer capable? You do realize these robots transform into other creatures to fight ya? But, even if they didn’t what does wearing high heels have to do with their abilities or presence?

Women choose to wear heels all the time, and I don’t think that makes them any less of a women.

Now….lets look at this from another perspective. When you fight, or play sports, you don’t typically stand flat footed. Humans distribute their weight on the balls of their feet so they can quickly move.

That is why soccer cleats have more spikes at the toes, and only a few at the heels. So, from a fighting perspective, these “high heels” aren’t really an issue.

In the end, it’s just a design choice. It’s meant to make them look taller, and more sleek (just like real high heels). I don’t think the intention was to make them some porn-bot with the intention of being someone secretary, and bending over to pick up dropped Skritt bottles.

No no no no no no no no. NO. Until you have worn high heels yourself, you are not allowed to say high heels do not affect ones abilities. Comparing them to soccer cleets? I would pick soccer cleets any day of the week. First, high heels make you very, VERY wobbley. Extremely unstable. Try walking, running, or even going up stairs on your tippy toes. Without killing yourself. That’s on a hard surface. If you step into the grass or dirt, your high heel sinks 100% into the squishy ground and you come tumbling down. Don’t walk over a grate, or an uneven surface. Forget trying to walk on a gravel road too. High heels are notorious for having no grip to them. Don’t stand on something smooth or wet cuz your feet will come right out from under you. Running in high heels? Nope. Forget it. If I were being chased by a dog and all I had on were heels, the heels would get kicked off first and I would go barefoot. Last but not least, they are uncomfortable. I can’t wear them for more than an hour before my feet cramp up and hurt.

I admit they got a bit of an eyeroll from me the first time I saw them. It does sometimes feel like there is a flowchart in the world that goes: Can you put breasts on it? Yes → Put breasts on it. Even when it is not necessary to do so. There was a lot of similar discussion about the sylvari design, I believe. It can get a bit beleaguering at times, and is always worthy of discussion. Personally, I was satisfied with the reasoning I read in discussions about the sylvari, and have seen many valid points about the feminine form in the case of the watchknights.

I do also just want to remind people that by no means should this discussion be a love all/hate all. You can like that they are feminine in shape and still dislike the degree to which the design takes that shape. Personally, female warrior robots seem awesome to me. I like the idea of a female monarch with an entourage of female robot warriors. I love the female shape. I’ve been rocking one myself for quite awhile. But I do dislike that the female shape being represented is something even Barbie hasn’t even had for several years now. I dislike the heels. I dislike the waistline.

I don’t feel as though they’ve been “sexualized” because there is a very large difference between being sexualized and merely exhibiting secondary sexual characteristics. There is a line there to be crossed but I don’t feel the watchknights cross that line.

I feel, basically, that my initial eyeroll stemmed from a larger issue in society where breasts of a considerable size and waistline of a less-considerable size and a rump of a considerable shape are seemingly shown everywhere people can conceivably put them. When discussing sex and gender representation, there is no such thing as a single occurrence, you have to consider the representation at large. Yes, the feminine body is beautiful in all of its forms, no, ANet is not alone in appreciating it. I very strongly appreciate the beauty of it. Which is why I’d like to see it a bit better treated.

Crazylegsmurphy.6430:

TottWriter.8591:

That they look “sexy” would also be less irritating were it not a phenomenon I encountered near enough at every turn. A break would be nice. I wonder how many men would be comfortable surrounded by scantily clad or nude men bearing large pelvic bulges, all with smouldering, thoughtful expressions; like they really care about you.

I would be perfectly comfortable. Why? Because I am able to separate a video game design from reality.

I don’t think such a reductionist approach is very helpful in this conversation. Computer games are a reflection of real life (culture).
Think, and pay attention, on how often the female body is simply used as a decoration. Think of for example booth babes, the girls that kiss the winner of some race, the girl on the cover of your tv-magazine etc.
Then having these watchknights with a female body is a reflection of what we do in real life. Again the female body is simply used as a decorative tool.

You might call it art, but that doesn’t make it not-sexist.

I agree. The first thing I thought when I saw the watchknights were…why boobs? I mean it’s ridiculous. Not form efficient. Poor balance with the wide hips. So stupid…

Willisium.5081:

Dahkeus.8243:

The misconception that a lot of people seem to be making here is that it’s not inherently problematic to show women as having sexual or aesthetically pleasing qualities. However, it becomes problematic when it is done in a way, so as to objectify and diminish the other qualities of that person.

For anyone that is truly interested in learning more about this topic and isn’t here to simply defend their world view with straw man arguments, ad hominem, cherry picking, etc., you may be interested in the following link: http://www.feministfrequency.com/tag/tropes-vs-women-in-video-games/

What a nice roundabout what of calling everyone who disagrees with you ignorant, without acknowledging their arguments. I’m not saying you’re being passive aggressive, but it definitely could be construed that way.

How have these robotic beings been objectified or diminished? They are capable fighters, are they not? are they not respected in their defined construction?

I studied politics, and feminism was a topic that was covered in great depths, and funnily enough a woman’s choice of footwear never came up. Nor a robots, for that matter.

Personally I think the problem here is a lot of people equate sexuality with sexism. Joss Whedon would like a word with you.

Wisdom comes from acknowledging ignorance, so I’m sure anyone who doesn’t want to admit that will probably take that the wrong way. If so, they weren’t the intended audience of that statement.

As for your last statement, that is exactly in line with what I said. I don’t have a problem with the fact that these NPCs have such qualities, but rather that unlike characters in a Joss Whedon film, these characters don’t have anything else to them (aside from being able to fight). They are essentially objectified.

This is why I don’t see Norn females as inherently problematic, even though the have a highly sexualized aspect to them. They are acknowledged as thinking, feeling people with valid opinions and perspectives.

Shiren.9532:

… I suspect they are just consequences of a designer’s inspiration. Of all the possible sources of inspiration, I doubt it was ever intended to be disrespectful to women or suggestive of submissive women. I too wonder why they made the robots that way, but I don’t think it’s an issue.

“Consequences of a designer’s inspiration” In a field largely dominated by guys, I’m not surprised that this portrayal is the unthinking default. As someone who plays video games and reads comics, unthinking sexualization really is nothing new to me. I don’t think anyone would argue with what you’re saying. Whereas you can dismiss it as not being an issue because it was unintentional, imagine for a second that this is the background radiation of your life. The critiques being made in this thread are not diminished by intentionality (though I imagine they’d be more hurt and angry in tone if it became clear that it was intentionally done for the eye candy!). It’s a major thread in academic analysis that the author’s intended meaning is only part of the story: that imagery, history or cultural context that the author is unaware of can influence an audience’s reading.

I think I’m not far off base if I say that most here are just trying to make the devs aware of what messages they’re sending/culture they’re reinforcing, perhaps unintentionally, in certain choices. I suppose I will make it a personal critique of the overall devs involved, though, and say that being unaware of how using the skin of a naked woman in heels in the watchknights comes off seems mighty tone-deaf.

And for those of you saying that because they are “strong” that makes them not sexualized, I’m going to refer you to a series of comics that will hopefully help you come to terms with the flaws in your slippery-slope arguments: http://harkavagrant.com/index.php?id=311 and http://www.harkavagrant.com/index.php?id=336

Hi, everyone. There’s a lot of good discussion and critique in this thread, but it’s been marred by a lot of comments that are disruptive to a constructive conversation. If you have a different opinion from the OP, that’s fine. However, if you express that opinion in ways that are condescending, disrespectful, rude, sexist, dismissive, off-topic, and/or derailing, we will have to clean up the thread to make sure that the conversation stays on course. Please discuss in a way that is respectful of the opinions of others, even if you disagree with them.

Thank you!

YES! I mean, GW2 has been doing so well in terms of portraying females as people rather than sex objects (well, at least compared to other MMOs), but really…

These things look straight out of Heavy Metal (not the music, but the semi-pornographic sci-fi/fantasy movie and magazone). I mean, did you really need to put nipples on these things?

Crazylegsmurphy.6430:

Kal Spiro.9745:

Honestly, I think everyone would have been perfectly happy with these fembots if they were at least twice as wide which huge muscles. Leave everything else exactly as it is, big boobs, tight butt and stilettos but make them giant monster women and everyone would have said amazon fighting women or norn, seems fine, moving on.

I wouldn’t have been.

I don’t think they need to make them more “masculine.” I don’t see them as being any less for being feminine. They’re giant robots with blade weapons. They are beautiful and capable at the same time.

Despite what some may want us to believe, being strong, and being sexy are not mutually exclusive. There is more to strength than your body type, what clothing you’re wearing, or what gender you are.

So do you think Norn women are more masculine? I don’t. Just because they’re bigger doesn’t make them masculine, it just takes them away from the danty flower appearance they have. I don’t care if they’re robots and therefore their form has no impact on anything, they look like underwear models.

At least if they were big they would look like they were designed to crack skulls, which they were, not to whip you and tell you that you’re a naughty boy.

I also rolled my eyes when I saw the design. Part of me wanted to bring it up in the forums, but the other part is kind of exhausted by similar topics. I don’t actually have a problem with sexualised aesthetics in general, but it a) feels pretty out of place in GW2, and b) as always, only seems to apply to one gender.

I assume male watchknights come with beautifully engraved, prominent, shiny codpieces. When do we get to see those?

I was initially torn. I think the level of detail is beautiful (so beautiful). But do the watchknights really need nipples? Really? Once I realized that, I realized the watchknights present not just a typical skin-tight-I-can-fight-in-heels fantasy female body, but a naked female body to gawk at. Not even an attempt to hide the objectification. Do they really need heels? I wish they would have been androgynous, or that the lace/engraving effect was more emblematic of clothing. Do the breasts and butt really need the extra attention drawn through the lace design? Was someone like “You know, that engraving on the genitalia isn’t eye-catching enough… let’s give the robots nipples, too”?

And if you think a single topless male NPC (Braham) is equivalent to a whole type of NPC that makes up an army that we see over and over again in the span of seconds in the case of the Jubilee events, supposedly commissioned by a strong female ruler, I… I don’t even know what to tell you other than to ask you to sit and think about it for a while. And yes, EDI from Mass Effect 3 was way less sexualized in design than this. The details of her breasts, for glaring example, were kept inside of her “suit”.

Some sort of equivalence that could ~make things even~ is to get some male watchknights up in there with their testes made into the bellybutton/nipple “bolts” and some embroidered codpieces.

Crazylegsmurphy.6430:

Kiriwar.7382:

I’m mostly upset that they had to have -high heels.-

I mean… really? really?

Wearing high heels means you’re no longer capable? You do realize these robots transform into other creatures to fight ya? But, even if they didn’t what does wearing high heels have to do with their abilities or presence?

Women choose to wear heels all the time, and I don’t think that makes them any less of a women.

Now….lets look at this from another perspective. When you fight, or play sports, you don’t typically stand flat footed. Humans distribute their weight on the balls of their feet so they can quickly move.

That is why soccer cleats have more spikes at the toes, and only a few at the heels. So, from a fighting perspective, these “high heels” aren’t really an issue.

In the end, it’s just a design choice. It’s meant to make them look taller, and more sleek (just like real high heels). I don’t think the intention was to make them some porn-bot with the intention of being someone secretary, and bending over to pick up dropped Skritt bottles.

I would love to see you go play sports in high heels. That would be amazing.

Garenthal.1480:

I’m a little baffled by the lack of a male model.

They don’t have a female model either, just a mechanical clockwork robot model.

Meriem.3504:

Kiriwar.7382:

Meriem.3504:

Kiriwar.7382:

Arimahn.3568:

Their posterior seems awfully elaborate too.

Demanding pics for those stuck at work!

There is a pic, check my OP.

That was only the chest, I want to see their butts.

How is this not sexualized? I’d say if someone doesn’t pick up the obvious here, they’re the one’s with a weird mind.

Wish they would have spent as much time on the Sovereign skins as they did putting nips on a robot. -.-

I’m pretty disturbed by the watchknights in this update.. I find it hard to believe that a Jenna, a confident, powerful female leader would endorse these glorified ‘fem-bots’.

I think it’s one thing for player’s avatars to be able to represent multiple facets of a particular gender (being living, sentient characters there’s an implication of personal choice, which i totally advocate), but an engineered construct that is overtly feminine (they even have high heels!) and overtly sexual (part of the art on their “anatomy” implies nudity) is worrying because they are representations of women with no agency of their own made to obey, whilst being thin, tall and busty, and worst of all silent. They are obedient, objectified women designed to serve.

I think I would less concerned if there was equal gender representation, but I’m yet to see any male watchknights, meaning that it’s a clear choice on the developers behalf. I dunno, I just don’t like it. It’s perhaps a small thing but I think it’s lazy and simplistic, particularly from a game that I think has some very compelling and engaging content that promotes collaboration, community, cooperation, compassion and a real sense of collectivity.

Interested in others thoughts.

Wait. They did what now?

Meriem.3504:

I am so sad I did not get to see all of DR before the changes. I was afraid of physical changes to the city, I just hoped it wasn’t going to be too bad but it was. x.x

Never got to see this temple or the hole. :[

Its not a temple. Its more of a statue with a training circle in front of it and then ramps leading up to a platform with more training area behind the statue.

The great collapse was cool to see, but we had to expect it’d be gone eventually. It was a giant hole in the ground. It’d have to be fixed. But the removal of that shrine? The heck?

And its doubly silly to remove BALTHAZAR’s shrine from next to an arena.

Devs, is this working as intended? Was this an oversight? Please fix it, if it was.

Hammers used to be pretty underwhelming too. The community talked about it months ago, a dev replied, and nowadays hammers look to have more impact and heavy-ness than they did before.

Staves, unfortunately, are still underwhelming. Have you people seen some of the new “magical” trident skins? Why oh why aren’t they available for staves too? :P

I think staves should be bigger and with more attention to detail. I’m not saying they should all be flashy with particles effects – there’s certainly a crowd who likes them with some elegance, but at their current size, they’re way too tiny to be appreciated, and their effects and details are generally underwhelming and way too shy.

I’d like a staff that is a simple pillar of ivory (as in, just a cylinder with no ornate features). I’d like that same staff to have insanely cool particle effects when used.

If I’m channeling a skill, I fully expect there to be an immense vortex of magic being drawn into the staff.

The reason why I have so much more gold than my friends is because I play Elementalist.
Every patch my friends spend their gold on new skins, the last time I had to spent gold was actually never.
I dont like Bifrost, so I went with the Walking Stick til SAB, since then I have Super Skin.

I’d just like to say first and foremost thank you for the new wallet it is a godsend complete with rays of shinning glittering light.

There’s just one personal problem I have. I can’t put any gold in my bank now. I’m walking around with my virtual life savings. In real life I don’t keep any cash on me. I use my debit card for everything, because for me it really helps having the mentality out of sight out of mind. Am i gonna buy the things I want, or pay for a bunch of little inane doohickeys I don’t need?

Chauncey? He can’t be happy with “runner-up”…

Just as Queen Jennah is about to cut the cake, a mysterious, well-dressed Asuran arrives…

Mysterious Asuran: Mr. Thackeray!

Logan Thackeray: Huh?!?

Mysterious Asuran: Is your name Logan Thackeray?

Logan pauses for a moment, contemplating the situation before answering

Logan Thackeray: Yeah.

Mysterious Asuran: I’ve got somethin’ for you…..

Mysterious Asuran reaches into his Plush Quaggan Backpack

Mysterious Asuran: …a letter!

Logan Thackeray: A letter for me?!? That’s impossible! Who the kitten are you?

Mysterious Asuran: Maguuma Union. Actually, a bunch of us at the laboratory were hoping, maybe, you could shed some light on the subject.

See, we’ve had that envelope in our possession for the last seventy years. It was given to us with the explicit instructions that it be delivered to a young man, with your description, answering to the name of Logan “Legs” Thackeray, at this exact location, at this exact minute, Season of Scion, day 253, 1326AE. We’ve had a little bet going as to whether this ‘Logan’ would actually be here. Looks like I lost.

Mysterious Asuran laughs

Logan Thackeray: Did you say seventy years?

Mysterious Asuran: Yeah, seventy years, 2 months, uh, 12 days to be exact. Here sign on line six, please. Here ya are.

Mysterious Asuran hands Logan a clipboard and quill

Logan signs the paper and nods at the Mysterious Asuran before opening the letter

Logan Thackeray: It’s from Snaff!!!

Logan begins reading the letter

Dear Logan,

If my calculations are correct, you will receive this letter immediately after you saw the Asura gate struck by Kralkatorrik’s lightning.

First, let me assure you that I am alive and well. I’ve been living happily, these past eight months, in the Season of the Zephyr, year 1256AE. Kralkatorrik’s lightning bolt…

Logan becomes excited as he interrupts himself

Logan Thackeray: 1256! Season of the Zephyr, 1256!

Mysterious Asuran: Wait, kid! Wait a minute! What’s this all about?

Logan Thackeray: He’s alive! Snaff’s alive! He’s in old Elona but he’s alive!

Mysterious Asuran: Yeah but kid, are you alright? Do you need any help?

Logan Thackeray: There’s only one Asuran that can help me!

Logan hastily runs off into the cold, rainy night

Bubbles, the DSD, finally makes an appearance when it sends one of its champions to ruin the party.

That champion is a swirling gigantic… Sharknado!!!

If the recent voting confirmed anything, it’s that GW2 has a lot of fans that want to see this current development team present their spin on events that are associated more with the original Guild Wars.

It would be difficult, for example, to do justice to the fall of Abaddon in a fractal (which, by their very nature are extremely short adventures in duration).

Has the team considered releasing a Bonus Mission Pack (much like we had in the original Guild Wars) to tell epic stories that go beyond the scope of the current game world? I can’t help but think this is something players would be interested in.