Guild Wars 2

Dont worry, holo will be nerfed too after a month.

Purity of purpose, wopwop!!!!!

A-net has been nerfing Base engi since HoT came out to try and balance what was a broken spec, Scrapper. What doesn’t make sense to me is why u would nerf all engineer builds when you could just nerf the scrapper trait line and solve the problem at the root. With the August 8th patch A-net has decided to tear the base engineer traits apart in attempts to balance what has not even been released yet. Holosmith.
The Tools line was suffering from poor options at its Grandmaster tier, so we’ve reworked Kinetic Battery and Gadgeteer to smooth out their gameplay patterns.
is that what u did anet? Is it rly?
Turret Detonate Skills: Fixed a bug that caused these skills to count as toolbelt skills for the purposes of traits.
Big? THEY WERE TOOLBELT SKILLS FOR THE LAST 5 YEARS!!
Mortar Kit: Fixed a bug that caused the effects for these skills to play incorrectly on WvW walls and doors.
aka they not longer actually land ontop the wall
Alchemical Tinctures: This trait no longer grants boon duration; it now grants up to 240 Concentration at level 80.
which is 4% less boon duration
Explosive Powder: This trait has been removed from the game. It has been replaced by Shaped Charge
which was 10% dmg increase for explosives and included the trait that gave turrets knockback
Siege Rounds: This trait has been removed. It has been replaced with Orbital Command.
which takes away my double orbital strike for blast finishing for a useless skill that wil NEVER HIT ANYONE!
Kinetic Battery: This trait has been reworked. It now generates kinetic charges whenever a toolbelt skill is used. At 5 charges, gain quickness and superspeed for 5 seconds. Charges can only be generated while in combat but do not expire until 5 stacks is reached or the trait is unequipped.
What was once the main defense for mostly all base engi builds… gone

A-Net needs to stop nerfing everyones builds, and focus on the ones that are actually a problem. (Scrapper for the last two years)

I posted this in another thread but basically I always thought mortar should have been the power option and grenades the condi option.

Put the fields on grenade kit except water and make mortar full power save the 5 skill being a water field, take the old concussion barrage and put that on the kit as well and make up a couple new power based skills for the mortar, like a pulsing damage field as said above. Increase the velocity of the projectiles by 50% because hitting anything beyond 1000 range is near impossible unless the thing isn’t moving.

You lost me at minions. Honestly you don’t even have to search to find an Engineer complaining about AI. I’m shocked someone would even suggest such a thing TBH. I’m so beyond even trying some new way to make AI work. There are so many other cool types of skills we could use from other professions (Signets, Mantras, Shouts), or invent a new one (Exceed) that I never want to see more AI on the Engineer ever again.

I like the dual skills idea though.

Years and years of bad AI getting too easy, too weak or too stupid.
Turrets getting OP, then nerfed into oblivion.
Gyros being incapable of following the player character, running in circles at the tiniest obstacle in the ground and frecuently failing to do their work.
Same kind of problems with Ranger pets, Spirit Weapons and other AIs in the game.
AI gameplay style always involving more rng and lesser control by the player.
Etc.

The search system in the forum is a mess, but but if you scubba dive in the engineer section you’ll see there are lots, and lots and lots of threads complaining, advicing against and pleading anet to please NOT give Engies more AI dependant skillsets.

Samug.6512:

Dragon.4782:

I thought it would be fun to speculate what the next elite specialization for some of the classes would be in the expansion after Path of Fire. This is what I thought of for the Engineer:

[…]

New Utility: Techno-minions.

No. More. AI.

This comment really should be a sticky on the engineer subforum.

Dragon.4782:

I thought it would be fun to speculate what the next elite specialization for some of the classes would be in the expansion after Path of Fire. This is what I thought of for the Engineer:

[…]

New Utility: Techno-minions.

No. More. AI.

Welcome to what is currently the stagnant world of Engineer/Scrapper. You’ll notice a similar effect when you attempt to fight that isn’t an NPC without the Alchemy line and HGH.

Call me blind, but while playing with the elite spec during PvP, noticing the tiny little bar showing the heat mechanic was kind of difficult in the heat of battle. Due to this, I’ve often overheated without meaning to.

It’s possible that it may come to pass, such as how Necromancers are easily able to check their life force. However, it might be more noticeable to show the heat mechanic in another way. For example, those similar to the bar design associated with Guardian’s Virtue of Justice, or Revenant’s Mistward.

Another, more unique way, to show this would be designing new icons for each skill that benefits from the heat mechanic as they reach the relevant thresholds. However, on top of this it would be appropriate to show the above, also due to builds that don’t use any Exceed skills.

Do you want to discuss engineer or necro?
because it really sounds like the latter, and therefore as the wrong subforum for this topic…

Another thing, and a big thing, is the fact that a Charr running with no weapon in hand and actively trying to equip weapons (that you don’t have) will run with the head in the ground, top-half body froze.

If you want to check it out, just unequip all weapons, run and hold down the key you bind for “equip/unequip weapons”. It’s a thing I’ve used a lot over past years to make people laugh and now … Well it’s automatic on a Charr in Photon Forge mode that runs. It’s funny when you want to look stupid, but not when it’s uncontrolled, please Anet, fix this too.

So the predicted patch changes…

Orbital Command: Is now instant strike. Strike is single target and cooldown increased to 45s to compensate.
Mine Field: Amount of mines doubled and deployed in a more predictable way. Damage has been removed and mines now cause voulnerability for 1.25s instead.
Mecha Legs: Moved trait to baseline holosmith. Replaced with a trait that gives you 3s of swiftness when hit (30s icd).

It would be cool, and I fully support this change, but sword is pretty pathetic as is. You have PLENTY of reason to continue using Rifle and Pistol.

In fact, I think most ‘meta’ Holomancer builds will continue using Rifle and Pistol.

Yeah if in fact heat damage is limited to sword that has GOT to change definitely because it pigeonholes the class into a single weapon and many people including me, hybridize our elite specs to suit our needs. Losing that damage to rifle for example is simply unacceptable.

One example of how I hybridized the last elite spec you placed on the class, is I made a healer Engineer with multiple quickness options so that I could heal myself whenever I entered a blast and whenever I hit max on my gadget points (5), I used heal+condi armor for my armor and it had toughness on it but I also included the toughness building options for my traits in the elite spec line. I didn’t use a hammer at all I used pistol/shield to synergize protection with lower cooldown and used it as another blast. Instead of using all gyros I used healing turret thumper turret cleanse gyro Elixir R and Supply Drop. I was able to also include explosives as a trait line so that I could benefit from the turrets exploding damage and the extra mines from dodging and the mines from the other trait line for bunker. I also included the boons from building turrets. All of these combined into a great support spec with lots of defense with ranged as the focus.

I plan on doing something similar with explosives with the new elite spec but we definitely need to fix this damage bonus lock that you have on the sword because that goes against your philosophy of “playing how you want to play” and “diversity”.

Ardid.7203:

1- Balance base weapons and trait lines so they are viable without elite specs.
2- Balance elite specs traits and skills so they aren’t OP and have sinergy with every base weapon.
3- Balance sword and hammer so they are on par with the base weapons while highlighting their spec mechanic.

Pretty much.

Until step 1 is done, we will continue to have issues.

1- Balance base weapons and trait lines so they are viable without elite specs.
2- Balance elite specs traits and skills so they aren’t OP and have sinergy with every base weapon.
3- Balance sword and hammer so they are on par with the base weapons while highlighting their spec mechanic.

Voramoz.6790:

“we are already pigeonholed into a weapon set. Please don’t let us try out a sword and make sure we remain pigeonholed into weapons we’ve had for five years.”

You don’t see the irony in that statement? You don’t see how we could easily get “Pigeonholed” into only ever using sword, because none of the other weapons are affected by the heat mechanic?

I for one miss our core engi weapons more than I am excited for sword. Yeah it’s fun, but It doesn’t represent Engineer as iconically as pistols or rifle. The biggest thing is, like you said, I want options meaning NOT being pigeonholed into any one weapon.

Sword being intentionally weak to justify the heat bonuses is just about the worst argument against this topic I can think of.

The thing to me is they chose to have the trait line exclusively affect PF. Which is cool, it’s an interesting design choice but I’m not against that. It’s unique and at least the general feeling in the first few hours was the trait choices are meaningful.

The reason why I feel strongly about this topic is because you do not only need to compare to other PoF elite specs, but no other trait line in the game period is so isolated from the rest of the profession. The fact they chose to go with PF exclusive traits is okay in and of itself, but without also spreading the heat mechanic to the rest of the profession—at the very least the other weapons—it is a big reason of why people say the Holo feels very disjointed from Engi. It’s not just the playstyle is a bit different, it’s that it is literally disjointed from the rest of Engi like no other trait line is.

From what I remember, Sword (as well as the Exceed skills) having built-in Heat bonuses comes from the fact that the traits only affect the Forge mode. There are no Sword or Exceed utility traits so they used the Heat mechanic to give them bonuses. We also have the two GM traits that provide bonus damage (2 might stacks per second while above 100 Heat, Gain Laser’s Edge after overheat explosion). So there are some alternative weapon benefits to heat use.

That said, I DO wish that we gained some other kind of benefit from ECSU other than might stacking. (Precision or Ferocity perhaps), and that Thermal Release Valve gave some kind of damage boost for conditions. Something like +150 Expertise while above 50 Heat. Although I’m personally afraid of that kind of buff as it puts you in one of those “don’t dodge or you lose your damage” situations like that Tools minor trait that was reworked.

I have mained an engi for 5 yrs, but as a multiclass player i have never found any reason to play a healing engi in any game mode, whether pve raids or fractals or pvp or wvw, obviously anything goes in open world pve so its fine to use their, other than that its just subpar even with the best gear possible, its like your gimping yourself for playing it, and i have tried every possible engi build out there.

EriskRedLemur.7153:

Why the kitten not? Find a guild that isnt about min/maxing crap and have fun. You dont “need” druids or ele healers to beat raids. Yes, they bring all this better and more. But this is very viable, not as “ideal” as Druid but things don’t have to be about speed/min/max/best. PUGS will not be open to this stuff, and I understand that a lot of ppl would be really bad at this engi healer, but if you are competent and know this role, with a guild that’s cool not forcing roles, then great. I always loved a healer engi.

I knew Med Kit was a little subpar, and having never leveled Ranger or Ele past like 20 I didn’t know what I was competing against. But I looked at their kits and healing multipliers and it’s pretty disappointing to see how little attention Engineers have gotten for this. If nothing else, hopefully this thread will bring a little more attention and they can tune the class more in line with other healing builds.

One more thing about the Holosmith – please update the offhands and rifle to work with the heat mechanic (underwater weapons would be nice as well!).

Well, now that I have had time to collect my thoughts, I’ve got feedback on the Holosmith. For reference, Engineer is one of my two most played classes, and I primarily play PvE content. Sorry in advance for the well more than 100 word wall of text.

First off, Holomsith really doesn’t feel like an Engineer at all. It really feels like some other class poorly stapled onto Engineer. Part of this is because the traitline is exclusively about the new Forge, offering next to no synergy with other traitlines (there’s the Explosive skill fact on some things, and that’s basically it). The fact that Forge is so powerful and locks out kits, also tries to discourage usage of kits, which further distances it from core Engineer. And then the sword and Exceeds scale off of heat, so it receives more benefit from those skills compared to those available to base Engineer. On top of that, it loses the thing that really makes Engineer play distinct from other classes: no cooldown on kit swaps or limited time in a kit/shroud/transformation. Forge locks you out of your weapon and kits for 6 seconds, heat softlocks you out of Forge, and the heat scaling on sword/Exceeds discourages using those skill if you’re over the threshold.

Furthermore, and most importantly, it doesn’t actually add anything new to Engineer. Holosmith isn’t bringing anything besides moar dps, and dps is one area in which Engineer wasn’t lacking. Photon Forge is essentially just a super-kit, not a really new or interesting thing. The kit lockout won’t stop the meta Engineer build in raids or fractals from using kits— either kits will fill the time while Forge is cooling off, or Forge will fill the time you’re waiting for kit cooldowns. Even in casual play, it doesn’t offer some new kitless Engineer build— that could already be done, and Scrapper was good for that already. And, as mentioned, Forge is like a kit, so it doesn’t even feel like a kitless build.

TL;DR: Holosmith feels like it’s intentionally tossing out part of the Engineer’s identity for bigger numbers. It’s one dimensional, and that dimension was an area where Engineer already excelled. Elite specializations were advertised as allowing classes to fill new roles, and, at least in PvE, Holosmith fails miserably on that front.

I understand that my problems with Holosmith are with the basic design premises of the spec; you can’t even begin address them without going back to square one and creating something completely new. So, in lieu of asking for changes, I ask this: please try to make Engineer’s third elite specialization something that feels more true to core Engineer , and have said elite specialization open up a new role for the class.

I feel that unlocking a specialization fully should unlock the weapon for core, and all future specializations. Not everyone liked hammer, but I for one would love to play around with it with Holosmith.

But as a side note we have a perfect offhand for power… That is if you play PvP and WvW like some of us, Shield! Shield is awesome, and I’m so glad I finally have a reason to use it as a power engineer.

Killyox.3950:

Did anyone try Holo underwater? Does it even work?

Revenant haven’t gotten a single elite spec that functions underwater yet, so I’d say it’s possible Engie is the same… But maybe not, there is an ever decreasing level of care and energy put into some of the elite specs.

Revenant has the least players, maybe that is why they didn’t bother to give us a single choice for underwater combat. Not even after two elite specializations.

However, as someone who loves the engineer, I fully support giving heat mechanics for other weapons. It’s like the weaver was designed to remind the other specs how little time they had for them. ;P

I think this is absolutely necessary.

Imagine Elementalist not getting skills for weaver with other weapons.

We need HEat stuff for Rifle/pistol MH OH/Shield

P.S.

Did anyone try Holo underwater? Does it even work?

IMO this HAS to be done. BUT only AFTER fixing the many imbalances and weakneses on pistols, shield and rifle (Hammer seems to be in the right place).

It has to be done because Elite Specs must create new options for all the profession elements, not limit their synergy to the new traits, skills and weapons.

It must happen after weapon fixes, because weapons must be able to stand on their own without Elite Specs. ESpecs are there to add diversity, not to repair base problems in the profession.

It’s not like we have anything to switch to.

I don’t know why they are crying… You can’t be perma in PF. PF offers no def skill (meaby corona burst for stability and 5th skill for cc) but theese are not true def skills. Our utilities is… Not so OP. I try 1v1 against hot spec. DH beat me 50/50 if I loose presure he won. Chrono has no chance – as like against scrapper. Scrapper beat me. Other classes are in similiar trouble like against scrapper. So I dont think that they will nerf holo. And if so, then they must buff pur defense. How they will do it? Buffing alchemy or invention mean heavy bunker scrapper. And holosmith traits seems to be balanced pretty well.

I really don’t like “Pure DPS” classes. But. Since engie is in a place were ANYTHING seems to be better, I will not complain about Holosmith. With some luck I can make it work with rifle and FT. Maybe.