Sounds like every issue you have is with the core class and should be solved with a balance patch, not a new elite spec.
That’s kind of my point, actually. Since elite specs still make use of core specs, they’re still slapping a bandaid on top of an existing issue. Without fixing existing issues, our shiny new toy will simply feel hollow.
I see what you did there at the end… still. Base Engineer used to be really good at dueling as opposed to stalling. Can we get back to that? The good at dueling part not the camping. I keep hearing this jack of all trades talk which there is some truth to that but it was good at something (blowing people up in 1v1) and people seem to forget that.
Sounds like every issue you have is with the core class and should be solved with a balance patch, not a new elite spec. We’ll get a balance patch on the 8th, hopefully it will solve some of this problems.
In my opinion, it is the Core Profession in general that is the issue and not the Elite Specs. The design of Core Profession is “Jack of All Trades but Master of None” but that does not work so well when put with Elite Specs that Focus on a Specific role such as Scrapper being a Crowd Control/Tank Elite Spec and Holosmith being a Pure DPS Elite Spec.
With other Professions their Core specialize in a specific area and adding Elite Specs adds a additional Specialization to go with what their Core already Specialize in or improve on what they already Specialize in. However, Engineers “Jack of All Trades but Master of None” nature at the Core Profession means they do not truely Specialize in any area but cover all areas at a subpar level for being able to cover all areas. Due to this Engineer is always a bit “shorter” when Elite Spec is added on to it compared to other Core Profession when a Elite is added on to them.
Think of it like this, Core Engineer being a Jack of all trades is a build that is equally designed in appearance always having room that covers all the needs of a Business and all average and skilled workers can interact with each other. They are all in equal access to each other and working together but no section of the business can be properly specialized due to no actual focus in their skilled workers use of abilites only for focusing only on advance part of the business.
The other Core Profession are Buildings that have a part of itself taller than one side or longer than one side. The Taller side or Longer side is used for where the more skilled workers go while the smaller/shorter side is where the average workers are. They’re not equal but one side of their business can focus on specializing in a area while the average workers focus on dealing with smaller tasks to make up for where the Business lacks.
Now you add Elite Specs as expansion to these buildings so more Specialized skilled workers can join the team for this Business but these new additions can only focus in one area. The Other Pofessions can now focus on specializing into two areas or improve on a area they already have with this expansion but for Core Engineer this will be the first time they can Specialize in a specific area but the rest of the areas will always not specialize in something.
(edited by EdwinLi.1284)
Most of the hate originates from the lack of Utility provided to the new Elite Spec.
There is a very high demand for Engineer to be given a decent or high Utility focus Elite Spec so it can compete against other Jobs that provide far more utility/support while also dealing the same amount of damage at the same time.
I want back my turrets. I don’t care about anything else.
Just give us a new AI window so we can activate it manually. More buttons to press, I dont care. I just want to have more control on my turrets.
Also it needs a bit more HP, for a static turret with higher cooldowns, it sure dies faster than minions. What a joke anet.
Sad times. I’m still trying to remain optimistic as we haven’t tried the classes hands, but i’d rather go into the expansion with extremely low hopes than high hopes.
i love the holosmith so far but the problem is it still is a melee medium armor self damaging profession
this makes engineer still trash for wvw
currently there is no viable engineer build or mechanics for WvW
engineer has no proper AoE potential mortar is a big joke and cost us dearly to lose the old grenades for it
rifle’s damage is a joke and like most of engi close target focused and the mad projectile hate in the game hurts it
pistols are good but projectile hate gets it too and its pretty much single target as well
grenades in numbers are nice but the reduced range kill them
engineer has no proper AoE support, nor damage nor CC
its got terrible mobility wich the new spec seems to offer for a change but is melee focused too
i could go on for days with the details but at his point its pretty much a beaten dead horse
(edited by Rezzet.3614)
Way too early to declare that it’s going the way of Scrapper (1 build)
I see many ways to potentially play Holosmith in PvP for example
No mention about the synergy between Crystal Configuration: Storm, Prime Light Beam, Corona Burst, and Explosives traits?
Steel Packed Powder and Shaped Charge? Is that what you consider Synergy, Chaith? I mean come on! Just look at the Reaper! 1 single trait creates an entire build! Corona Burst and Light Beam don’t even come close to that.
I think Holosmith totally fits into a P/P hybrid damage build as well. P/P, Firearms/Alchemy/Holosmith. Flamethrower, Elixir S, Spectrum Shield. Holosmith: 2-3-1 for heat venting dodge roll burns or Holosmith 3-3-3 for an overheat style build.
Sorry Chaith, I looked at those suggestions and all I could think was; “We’re still just playing the same old builds but slapping Holosmith on it.”
The ONLY redeeming quality for the Holosmith is the way it’s skills function. Like I said in the video, the Holosmith could bring the Bomb Kit back with it’s area control and Static Discharge back with multiple F1-F4 skills but boy do those traits do nothing to enhance the flavour of the skills. And when I make this statement, I’m not saying the traits don’t work or you can’t use them, what I’m actually saying is, the traits don’t give us any incentive to use other trait lines.
And you could once again bring up the Explosives line and I’ll tell you right now that you will only go into the explosives line to get Glass Cannon, Aim-assisted Rocket and Thermobaric Detonation and the traits that supposed to synergize with the Holosmith will be left behind.
Bruiser might stacking build with Sword/Shield, Inventions/Alchemy/Holosmith. Elixir Gun, Spectrum Shield, Hard Light Arena. Focus on doing high Sword damage after leaving Photon Forge with high heat. Holosmith 2-2-2.
I assumed the Bruiser build would be 1-2-2 since damage reduction is in the Light Density Amplifier.
DPSSS Holosmith with Sword/Shield, Explosives/Alchemy/Holosmith. Grenades, Elixir S, Spectrum Shield. Wreck face with ranged explosion Photon Forge autos and Grenades. Use Sword/Shield to leap away and quickness heal instead of offense. Holosmith 2-3-3.
Ranged explosion Photon Forge Autos, 2-3-3 won’t get you that. But I guess you meant Crystal Configuration: Storm. And even with that, it still doesn’t make the Spec any livelier than the Mirage or even the age old Reaper.
Since you’re not excited to play these builds, I think you are just too narrow in what you can view as fun.. personally your suggestions are too focused on condition spamming for my liking
Narrow? Nah, I’ve just seen these same patterns before. It happened during the trait revamp, it happened during the Scrapper reveal and it’s happening again now. And I can bet with you now, the Holosmith is not going to be used because the traits are good, but because the skills are good.
And if you don’t like conditions, I was just thinking that with all this Holo-manipulation we’re doing, why aren’t we doing things like completely changing what the skills actually do; For instance, instead of Holo Leap being Holo Leap, it gets changed into Holo-chains that immobilize, or instead of Corona Burst we get Holo-Clones that copy our next attack or a Holo-Gatling Gun or a Holo Charrzooka! Why isn’t there more CRAZY?! Why are the traits so narrowly focused on Heat and turning on or off the Forge? Why doesn’t it also touch on the manipulation of light or the manipulation of blind or even the Holo projections themselves! Come on Chaith, you have to see it from my point of view as well.
We don’t even know if using a kit will eject you from Photon Forge, there are playstyles totally hinging on that, wait and see.
As I said, I’ve seen these patterns before and they don’t bode well for the engie community. Not at all. The only thing that can save this is if that balance patch actually changes anything significant on the Engie, that I don’t know about.
I make guides to builds you may not have heard of;
http://www.youtube.com/user/ceimash
http://www.twitch.tv/ceimash
http://www.youtube.com/user/ceimash
http://www.twitch.tv/ceimash
(edited by Dirame.8521)
Have to completely agree with this post.
We need the “Balance Team” to take time off from buffing warriors and nerfing thiefs to spend some real time with the engineer trait lines to make them complete.
This class has been neglected since beta in a serious way. It was even obvious in how much time they took to display the holosmith on the latest launch video. Seriously it was like 10 seconds of time compared to the rest of the time the other classes new specs were talked about. How disappointing.
If the “Balance Team” takes some serious time on the engineer in the next stream and upcoming trait/balance patch I’ll have hope about their skills again but until then they have severely disappointed the Engineer community with their lack of concern for the class.
You’ll also notice in the trailer video, holosmith was the only class where a weakness of some sort was mentioned (the overheating). It’s like they go out of their way to make us different in a bad way.
I’m just scared that the payoff for overheating will not be worth it and holosmith will be in the same boat as rifle engi…high risk, high mechanical skill, no reward.
Rifle is NOT a ranged weapon for Engie.
“Only problem with the Engineer is
that it makes every other class in the game boring to play.”
Hawks
that it makes every other class in the game boring to play.”
Hawks
I do think that Photon Forge is very like Reaper Shroud, the similarities are crazy.
- Longer than standard 130 melee range autos
- Gap closer #2
- Stability (when traited) #3
- Multi-hitting condition spike #4
- Point blank AoE CC #5
It’s very obviously based on Reaper Shroud
Forum Lord Chaith
Twitch.tv/chaithh
New Twitter: @chaithhh
Twitch.tv/chaithh
New Twitter: @chaithhh
Have to completely agree with this post.
We need the “Balance Team” to take time off from buffing warriors and nerfing thiefs to spend some real time with the engineer trait lines to make them complete.
This class has been neglected since beta in a serious way. It was even obvious in how much time they took to display the holosmith on the latest launch video. Seriously it was like 10 seconds of time compared to the rest of the time the other classes new specs were talked about. How disappointing.
If the “Balance Team” takes some serious time on the engineer in the next stream and upcoming trait/balance patch I’ll have hope about their skills again but until then they have severely disappointed the Engineer community with their lack of concern for the class.
Balance Team: Please Fix Mine Toolbelt Positioning!
Rifle turret should look like a chain gun (mini gun with rotating barrels) and not that water spout we currently have.
I don’t know, I find the water spout appearance to most closely represent how powerful the thing actually is.
LOL well can’t argue with that
Rifle turret should look like a chain gun (mini gun with rotating barrels) and not that water spout we currently have.
I don’t know, I find the water spout appearance to most closely represent how powerful the thing actually is.
You had me at “I have played this game”
IMHO Shield just need another slightly lower CD reduction for base then it will be where it needs to be. I think the hate for engineer shield is brought up by the fact that we never had a good mainhand to go with it (until now it seems) because pistol is for conditions and you are always going to take offhand pistol.
Its the most stacked shield effect wise: 3 sec projectile reflect with a knockback and blast finisher and a 2 second block that stuns melee that hits you and can even stun through evade attacks (like thief sword/pistol 3 or mesmer sword 3) as well as a 900 range throw that dazes both ways.
I love to play the Gunpowder and Steampunk Class – So it was obvious for me to pick Engineer five years ago.
Played Powerbuilds with Rifle+varying Kits all the Time, crafted a Legendary Rifle.
Then HoT came and turned my class into a freaking Hammerer – Only Condicheese provided Gunpowder with Pistols and my Legendary Rifle was just getting dusty inside a bank vault.
Now with PoF my Engineer becomes some fancy Swordmaster – And thief gets a dedicated Rifleman, Marksman, Sniper call it what you want specc.
I am out, I am sooo much out of this class.
Rename the Class Engineer into ‘The Experimental class thing we actually can’t find a theme and name for’.
Engineer/Thief – Drakkar Lake
I don’t believe you have enough experience to make these judgments. As an engineer main who duels, pvps, and gvgs, Engineer brings amazing utility outside of small groups and 1v1s. In guild vs guild, Engineer is unmatched in its ability to stealth his downs and to reveal the other team during the beginning stealth engage. This single reveal and amazing down stealth is what can make or break a gvg round. On top of that pull can be used very effectively to pull targets out of their stack and 100 to 0 them.
This is my opinion so don’t take it personal.
I am an engie guardian mesmer main. I saw the new holosmith and i played a scrapper and a condition burn assassin engie.
My opinion i come up with after talking with my wvw guild is that engineer is only good for 1v1 and roaming.
Engineer cant heal. Cant boon spam. Cant bring ultility to zergs. Cant offer good damage range support or melee support for wvw comps.
Engie is only good for spvp and duels and 1v1 and roaming
Scrapper is good for 5 man parties and that’s it.
MY QUESTION NOW IS….
Do you like this role as engineer and do you like where anet is taking the direction of the class ?
My view is i love being a 1v1 solo machine in pvp but i also love group pvp.
Overcharged Shot – hits ‘Last Stand’ (or similar). oops. dead.
Overcharged Shot – hits reflect. oops. dead.
Net Shot – only a 2s immob, but it’s broken immediately by a dodge or movement skill anyway.
Hip Shot – meh damage compared to revs dropping 5k autoattacks
Jump Shot into the fray – hits a pile of CC and damage. oops. dead.
Jump Shot away from the fray – gets a DH spear in the back and pulled. oops. dead.
Blunderbuss is okay I guess, but it’s still wasting half the damage on condi when it should be power.
anyone who has played engi for a long time knows that rifle needs some SERIOUS love and as one of the few classes that even gets to use rifle, its a total waste.
Doesn’t look like a swap. The different utility skills that “use” the heat you generate have different weapon appearances. So, wielding a sword, the utility gives it a rifle to “use” the heat, and with the heat gone, back to sword.
Lost in the Maguuma [TC]
Te Nosce [TC]
Te Nosce [TC]
First oft, i play since the beginning. My first 80 was the engineer. I love the concept. But after a long break i hit a brick wall with hot.
I am dying left and right. I am one, two shotted by everything that moves.
I tried full vit and tough scrapper. I couldnt outheal the damage. I couldnt escape. I couldnt distract with anything like necro or mesmer ofc.
I tried full condi pistol pistol. Damage didnt kill fast enough, couldnt outheal the damage.
Full power feri scrapper, all the same.
Please enlighten me how to engineer. I just love the class too much to quit it for my necro or mesmer (who just kitten the mobs in the junge, even Champions).
Blinds baby, blinds. The enemy can’t hurt what it can’t see.
Pistol 3 + Bomb 4 + Mortar Kit 4 + Grenade Kit 3 + Flamethrower 5 = enemies are nearly permanently blinded unless they are champs or higher, in which case you shouldn’t try to solo them.
And that’s just if you want to play defensively. If you want to play more offensively, you should be up in their face making them miss all their attacks.
So much this…
Who needs dodges? I’ve got BLINDS FOR DAYS!
Just stretch your piano fingers and get playin’.
Imgur album of the new traits taken from Bog Otter’s stream: http://imgur.com/a/A2kpr
TIL Bog Otter streams at 720p :feelsbadman:
Will post skills once I can organize them.
Even if I have to squint at them, that’s infinitely better than not having them to squint at!
I’m theorycrafting a few builds that I couldn’t really do during his stream given how sporadic it was.
Keep it coming! Thank you for the hard work. <3.
Self damage because that’s always so popular in pvp.
Well kitten.
Seems intriguing.
I’m really not sure how this “holo-form” is going to work. Seems like it could be either a Death Shroud style full-on form change activated with F1 OR perhaps just individual skills activated with F1-F5, but either way that means no toolbelt skills. Is that even possible that they’d change something that core to the profession so radically? Prior to this I would have said no, but now we’re getting a petless Ranger elite spec, and pets are even more central to Rangers and have even more traits and skills dedicated to them, so if they can do that then maybe they could also give us Engie with no toolbelts?
Or are the holo-form skills basically just going to be toolbelt skills, but different than the normal toolbelts? That’d be a LOT of new skills if they made one for each utility, another thing that I probably would have said wasn’t going to happen, but likewise we’re getting Elementalist with an attunement-mixing mechanic that changes based on attunement AND weapon, and that means a lot of new skills there too.
I don’t even know any more. These new elite specs seem to be pushing the boundries of what I had previously thought was off-limits to the point where I don’t even know what to expect with Holosmith.
If it is basically just giving us a “free” Kit with a Shroud-style transformation, then its likely meant to address one of the common Engineer criticisms that kits are too mandatory to the class. Although I see a potential issue with that, where they’ve built this “heat mechanic” and it sounds like the utilities are the main way to benefit from your heat, so while you technically get a free kit, you’re still forced to use the Holosmith utilities to benefit from heat, so stuff like gadgets and elixirs are still going to be a tough sell.
I dunno, I guess we’ll see how it shakes down in a couple weeks. This is definitely one of the Especs I’m most confused and potentially excited by, though.
Those are actually Holoskills most likely their Utility skills. From what it seems the Elite Spec heavily focus on using the new Holo Form and Primary Weapon over the Core Kit of Engineer to build up Heat then use their Utility skills for massive Damage.
The design so far appears to be based on making a Core Kitless Elite SPec that does not need to depend on Kits which Engineer currently depends greatly on but instead Utility skills and their Primary weapons instead.
…which means Holosmith is gonna be relying mostly on their new Utility skills while Gadgets and Turrets will be more useless. Sweet.
Holosmith is definitely a nice elite specialization never the less. It looks like it could potentially be a mix up between both power and condition due to heat system. I could be wrong on this, but it looks like Tool Belt skills might be replaced with Photon Forge skills while in that mode.
For the Photon Forge used, it seemed like they have a rifle for a long range high damage skill, mace that’s a ground slam that knocked down enemies, great sword was the leaping spinning one (looks like it leaves something behind their last location since it showed up twice in different occasions), pistols with some sorta unload that potentially causes burning, and a hammer that’s swung at 360 that could weaken defense.
The Utility seems to have a hexagonal force field around them, one that surrounds them with the wall, one that pulls nearby enemies to the center, and a spinning aoe that sticks with you while moving. Overheating causes constant explosions while continuously using Photon Forge.
Overall looks like a specialization that sacrifices a lot of Engineers defensive utility for an extremely aggressive play style.
(edited by Midontto.5847)
Those are actually Holoskills most likely their Utility skills. From what it seems the Elite Spec heavily focus on using the new Holo Form and Primary Weapon over the Core Kit of Engineer to build up Heat then use their Utility skills for massive Damage.
The design so far appears to be based on making a Core Kitless Elite SPec that does not need to depend on Kits which Engineer currently depends greatly on but instead Utility skills and their Primary weapons instead.
To be honest it feels dull and shallow in comparison to other elite specs. The heat mechanic better be good.
I’m pretty sure its the new healer
We already have the tools to be a healer, but they have never bothered to buff them at all… while i would be kinda kittened thay they held these buffs until the expansion only for the new spec, i guess it would be also a nice thing to finally get.