Dantaeus X Heardt Ranger Lvl 80
Zhaitans Tears Guild[ TWS ] NSP
Zhaitans Tears Guild[ TWS ] NSP
http://www.twitch.tv/guildwars2guru/b/365009593
~50:00 (Anet Devs talking about builds)
I like how they talk about how they messed up spirit rangers. but havent come out with a solution to fix this~ for how many months now?
54:54 “I hear underwater rangers are pretty good.” I feel trolled
No, don’t lock this. This thread is literally a standing monument to how unfair anet has been to the ranger.
Hi ANet, fixed ranger yet?
No worries, I’ll come back tomorrow.
No animals were harmed during the typing of this post.
An enthusiast that only recommends factory overclocks for GPU and CPU (factory overclock CPU? really?)
As to getting improvements for Nvidia users, upgrade to the latest beta drivers from Nvidia. Their production drivers aren’t playing nice with GW2, at least for their new 600 series cards. I saw as much as a ~20fps improvement just updating the drivers.
“Otherwise, your MMO becomes all about grinding to get the best gear. We don’t make grindy games.”
-Mike Obrien, President of Arenanet
-Mike Obrien, President of Arenanet
Hi everyone I HATE the fact that World vs World part of world completion i don’t what to ever play PvP or WvW but i want to have 100% world completion so i’m forced to play WvW witch i’m NOT happy about it should be a diffident world completion so that players only want to do is PvE don’t have to do WvW to get 100% world completion
hello! please avoid WvW if you hate it.
please remember that if you want a 100% world completion you will need to explore the WvW maps!
also, you are not forced to play WvW! please remember that also.
thanks!
so i guess getting killed while going there to complete it doesn’t count as playing it? yeah try again. That’s the whole point of this thread.
Balance Team: Please Fix Mine Toolbelt Positioning!
A common misunderstanding. WvW is not part of the WORLD at all, it is within the mists. Lore wise it makes no sense for an explorer of the physical world of Tyria to have to explore the mists (a different universe) before he can safely say he has explored all of the world.
I have the title, and I still encourage Anet to change it. Make it so you have to explore dungeons for cryin out loud – it would be harder (I think) but make much more sense and not interfere with PvP.
This game needs a weighted scoring system. i.e. if you have zero opposition and cap a keep then hold it for 8 hours vs no opposition you should get substantially less than 25 points for each tick.
If you are outmanned and you hold a keep against massive forces, you should get substantially more than 25 points for each tick.
How many points you get should be adjusted based on how many people your team has vs how many people their team has. I don’t even know how you could implement this without getting it gamed because doing a player count at the end of each tick before adjusting the score is likely to result in large numbers of players logging out of WvW close to the end of each tick to inflate their own scoring potential.
In the end, whatever system Anet creates must rely on the majority of players in WvW wanting to play on a level playing field and choosing to allow skill and organization to be the most significant factors in the scoring system. But its not and so the winner is the server that gets worn down the slowest by attrition.
The score must nevertheless reflect the effort put into holding territory and discourage games of attrition. Attrition is absolutely the worst thing about WvW by a long way because if you have a significant enough off peak timezone advantage, it doesn’t matter how well anyone plays as long as your server can throw more players at opposing keeps when they are weakest. You wear them down faster than they wear you down. The game ceases to be a game for those who are outnumbered. Its like some terrible form of unpaid work. You either play and be miserable or don’t play at all.
Ever got into a 4 hour treb war with 5 or 6 focus eles camped on either side? That kind of game should not be incentivized by the scoring system because its a pure mind numbing deadlock. The only point of it is to drag a keep siege out to such an absurd length of time that your superior timezone coverage makes the experience less miserable for your opponents, who have nobody left to replenish their numbers.
There is no incentive in the scoring system to play creatively or to play well, only to stack population and coverage until creatively and skill are largely irrelevant. Theres a very good reason why every single matchup thread has very little talk about PvP, tactics, the strategy of how to win a (simulated) war – none of it is necessary to win. There is very little talk about team builds/composition. The only thing I ever see is players begging for transfers (ideally in non domestic timezones but most will take whatever they can get).
I can’t for the life of me understand why anyone wants to play this public relations game. The more I think about it, the more I think that this problem cannot be fixed by Anet unless the majority of WvW players cop on and start playing the game for the sake of playing it well.
(edited by Besetment.9187)
War doesn’t stop for nap time.
WvW isn’t war my friend, we want it to be!!
currently it is “who has more points” and thats exactly what is boring about NA ladder and Vizunah playstle :P
WvW is meant to be played for 24 hrs, perfectly fine IF ur on NA server where the whole world SEA/Oceanics/even EU and whole for Americas plays, but this doesn’t work in EU atall.
EU is 1 region and the only timezones which are even close to active are Russian(gmt+3) Middle east(gmt 4) and spanish who don’t sleep at night :P,
i am on desolation and play on 4+ GMT and every time i login, there is absolutely nobody playing on Desolation, which is by far the most populated server in EU.
the usual “primetime” for EU only lasts for about 3-6 hours which is again riddled with quues on almost all servers and the rest 18 hours have almost no players nor coverage atall.
the only exception to this is Vizunah square, the only server with 24 hour coverage in EU, we can argue that they have canadians, french playing for 20 hours straight for everyday for the last 7 months or what ever the reasons , this has made them into a very succesful and effective but boring server using the same tactic , golem rush everything on everymap when other servers are offline and upgrade everything and just defend in the EU primetime which makes them pretty much unbeatable in EU.
This strategy though is very effective and works really well, it has de moroalised pretty much every other server in EU.
few servers, deso/SFR did have NA guilds for a brief period of time and quite easily beat Vizunah but the amount of time , but paid transfers pretty much closed these doors for every server now. and the whine from VS is just too much for anybody to handle.
go to any EU tier1/2 server threads and u will see nobody wants to play VS anymore, again its not even VS is fault, they merely adopted to a flawed points and ranking system by Anet
Apparently 3 people playing at offhours for 10 hours (30 man hours) is a lot more effective than 10 people playing for 3 hours( 30 man hours) according to the points systems.
The only solution i see is either fix the points system to reflect the population activity in WvW or make global servers.
my playtime has already decreased from 4+ hours to 1 hour now, cos of ques and when we finally get in, we have no server to fight against cos, 1 server doesn’t come out of their towers and the 3rd server has already given up in the first 2 days.
(edited by salluks.6017)
By all means keep the pvp element of the JP’s that are in wvw, but remove them to a separate instance please! I’d even be tempted to go in there as an alternative to wvw on occasion, knowing that I wasn’t harming my server’s chances in wvw by being in the JP.
There are two ways that i can see this work:
1. make 1 different map that gives access to all JP:
This would mean that all JP will be independent from the actual control on the maps. Everyone can join the puzzle without having to fight your way to the access. This would probably increase the number of people doing the JP and making it more competitive. Control inside the JP will possibly have a bigger impact on WvW than it already has. it would be a campers paradise. Casual players and bad jumpers will avoid them even more than they already do, since it will be hard to complete if your world doesnt have control inside the JP or if you arent part of a bigger group.
2. Making JP portals inside the WvW maps:
kinda like the EB puzzle, the Borderlands puzzle will be reached by running into a portal on the map, that is located on the Homeworld side of each borderland (same place as the puzzle currently is) the portal could be behind the waterfall for example.
This would mean that all the puzzles (especially each borderland JP) will be still influenced of the control on the map. If your server is in control of the access area, than you will have it easier in the JP. But now we have the problem…if you want to leave the JP, you might be in a queue again. Since you won’t have a reserved slot in the different zones anymore (that would defy the purpose of seperated JP instances). So doing a JP during peak hours to get your siege, will have the possibility of you having to queue up for a long time again.
your idea is good though, but there are some issues that have to be considered. It is not a completely clean cut without consequences (like it seems to be at first).
If I had to pick up a problem in the WvW JP, it wouldn’t surely be the queuing – but that’s because I’m watching it from the perspective of a non-PvP player. From what I know, WvW is intended as a kind of blend between PvP and PvE. Problem is, as a lover of the PvE environment, I also love JPs, which are a tipical PvE content. Yet, in the WvW JPs I must constantly think about the menace of other players coming in and killing me. The JP becomes a stressful experience, not an enjoyable one.
I like both jumping puzzles and WvW so I have no issues with this side myself, but every time I go to one of them, almost everybody I get close to immediately does the /no emote. So I’m assuming people don’t want to pvp in there in general.
As for queue times, the server I play on is classified as a medium population one but still there are long queues during prime time. Lucky for me prime time is when I play with PvE oriented friends, but guilds are having trouble getting enough people in during their main play time to do anything. 10 or 20 people in jumping puzzles are already enough to keep a small-medium sized guild raid out. Sure, jumping puzzles aren’t likely to be the only thing that blocks queue spaces for people who actually want to WvW but they’re easily a significant part of the problem.
This, by the way, is also my strongest argument about map completion in WvW: PvE players do not like this at all, I guarantee you, and yet map completion is what I would qualify as a tipical PvE achievement.
I agree with this as well, again from the point of view of someone who actually likes WvW and has 100% world completion. But not only are all players forced to go to WvW for their world completion, you also have to spend a significant amount of time there or keep coming back for weeks. The ranking algorithm is designed so that if it works perfectly, servers tend to keep the same colour or two out of the three, while they’ll also be unable to faceroll the other side. So the better that algorithm actually works the worse this gets and PvE focused players are affected much more than PvP players.
World completion would be such a nice achievement for pure PvE or casual players who don’t want to go after a legendary, but because of the WvW maps being required, it’s not.
From the point of view of WvW players, at least people after their map completion are willing to fight. But then they also like to spam in chat about taking over one specific keep or tower they still need for their completion no matter how unlikely it is that your server could actually get in.
Anyway, BTT: I really like almost all the jumping puzzles. Hard to call a favourite. Basically I love the fact that they are even a thing in a game where the genre is pretty much full of games that only offer fetch quests and grinding.
If they are OPTIONAL, then remove them from wvw as they have no part in it, block real wvw players from getting in and are the cause of a lot of friction between JP2 fans and wvw players.
I’m not super familiar with how the JP in WvW interacts with the rest of the map, so I can’t really speak to that. I am not an expert on all things GW2 or even JP. I’m speaking from my understanding of the subjects. I would be interested in hearing more about this dynamic though.
If I had to pick up a problem in the WvW JP, it wouldn’t surely be the queuing – but that’s because I’m watching it from the perspective of a non-PvP player. From what I know, WvW is intended as a kind of blend between PvP and PvE. Problem is, as a lover of the PvE environment, I also love JPs, which are a tipical PvE content. Yet, in the WvW JPs I must constantly think about the menace of other players coming in and killing me. The JP becomes a stressful experience, not an enjoyable one.
(not THAT true: JPs are the part of the game I love the most AND, at the same time, that frustrates me the most ;-D)
This, by the way, is also my strongest argument about map completion in WvW: PvE players do not like this at all, I guarantee you, and yet map completion is what I would qualify as a tipical PvE achievement.
There are different ways to promote player skill. You don’t have to make everyone equal and boring in order to achieve it. It’s called asymmetric balance and it could be seen very successfully implemented into GW2 and it’s JPs.
As for the discussion — it’s been (mostly) nice discussing the subject with you.
You should participate in the TC jumping puzzles contest =D
http://www.reddit.com/r/Guildwars2/comments/17xaht/first_official_jumping_puzzle_tournament/
The problem with JP’s in wvw is they take up queue spots for people who want to do wvw and help their server win the wvw.
Ok. Thanks for the cogent explanation. I’ll look into counter-arguments and pass this along to someone who has the power to actually do something about it.
He is most likely one of the players who doesn’t want to have to have to PvP in any of the WvW jump puzzles…..
Nope, I don’t complete the JP in wvw for badges, I kill people, cap camps , kill tower lords etc in wvw for my badges- never completed a wvw JP (went in one with guild group..but left as a call went up for people to defend a keep we held).
For the dev:
The problem with JP’s in wvw is they take up queue spots for people who want to do wvw and help their server win the wvw. Jp’s contribute nothing to this, especially when you get an entire pve guild playing around in there for hours ‘having fun’ and being rude to wvw players who are politely asking them to leave so we don’t lose fully upgraded t3 towers, camps, garrisons, etc.
When you have spent piles of gold and hours of time as a guild and a server in upgrading and defending in wvw only to see EVERYTHING lost as a result of 30 people being in the JP and laughing while the map turns the enemy’s colour then you will understand why there is so much friction between wvw players and JP campers.
Some will argue that the siege they obtain from the end chest ‘helps the server’ but in reality most siege is bought and used by the commanders and their guilds using badges/gold obtained from fighting in wvw. If JP ‘rs really wanted to help the server they are on, then their guild leader could collect all the siege from his members, and meet the commander and pass it over to them. The funniest argument from JP campers is ’we’re helping by preventing the other server getting free siege’. Really? Allowing them to get badges from cap camps, towers and farm badges from the outmanned wvw players which they can turn into siege..that’s helping?
In tight matches (before server transfers became costly) it wasn’t unusual to see a guild or several suddenly pop up that you hadn’t seen before and fill a JP with 10- 20-30 players and then remain there all day while your server loses points and loses the whole week’s match up, and then disappear again and never be seen again.
The design of the JP’s mean that before they removed siege from being able to place in them you would have a small team from one server that could hold the chest spot forever, especially if they build the siege on top of the chest, meaning it would take people even longer to complete and hence fill up even more space that could be better used by a wvw player contributing to the battle.
By all means keep the pvp element of the JP’s that are in wvw, but remove them to a separate instance please! I’d even be tempted to go in there as an alternative to wvw on occasion, knowing that I wasn’t harming my server’s chances in wvw by being in the JP.
I guess it comes down to this in wvw: are you selfish and just out to help yourself (grab JP chest, grab badges, don’t contribute to server but be happy with the world buffs) or are you in wvw to join with the community and help fight the enemy, and realise that helping the server and having fun and some epic battles/solo fights/whatever helps the server is what wvw is all about.
In fairness dev, I’m sure there are plenty of people that find enjoyment in the jump puzzles you create, so carry on, but try and keep them as an alternative rather than something that has to be done, and let’s hope the other teams that are working on the wider issues can get things done too, otherwise from an outsiders point of view the ‘new content’ will seem more jump orientated than it actually is as people wait for fixes to the other areas of the game.
Victory, Beings Lost On Borderlands (BLOB), SFR & Gandara (inactive)
No. ALL skills, buffs, or any other un-equalizer will be removed.
That’s the idea I hate the most about where GW2’s JPs are headed. Skills, buffs and “un-equalizers” actually make the puzzles more fun, more dynamic. It provides creative ways to complete the said puzzles and awards thinking outside the box.
It is also imbalanced in hugely favors engineers and mesmers.
False.
Mesmers can only use portals to help others if they passed the puzzle already, their illusionary leap only works if there’s a targeted neutral/hostile, otherwise it fails. They also have no speed signet and their only reliable way for swiftness is on their focus with a huge downtime.
Engineers have the jump shot which is a great leap skill, however I’ve never had any trouble doing the same with the warrior (monarch’s leap), guardian (leap of faith), ranger (swoop, requires a bit of a run-up though, sword’s leap can also be used if you can at first waste the evade without falling off), elementalist (lightning leap from the conjured hammer). The thief has heartseeker, but due to it’s short range I haven’t used it as often. Necromancers are the only ones handicapped here, yet even they have a speed signet, marking them well above mesmers.
Such is how the fact, that mesmers can help an entire group bypass huge chunks of the puzzle, gets balanced out.
By stating that it’s imbalanced, you assume the JP is made in a specific way that specifically favors one or a few professions over others, while that is often true, it also adds further to the good side of dynamics and creative thinking. Especially if the JP in question has more then one route to the objective. The trick is to learn and play to your strengths and allowing skills, buffs and “un-equalizers” makes the JP a richer experience without much input by the developers them selves.
No. ALL skills, buffs, or any other un-equalizer will be removed.
That’s the idea I hate the most about where GW2’s JPs are headed. Skills, buffs and “un-equalizers” actually make the puzzles more fun, more dynamic. It provides creative ways to complete the said puzzles and awards thinking outside the box.
That said, I hated Griffonrook because, while dynamic, the griffons added a massive element of luck due to the erratic behavior of AI, their shifting positioning and twitchy attacks.
(edited by VakarisJ.5619)
i cant jump when i use my quaggan tonics:(
You guessed it! Everyone will be transformed into Baby Quaggan who can’t jump. All you will be doing is rezzing fallen NPCs who are doing a wonderful looking JP above you. I can’t believe you figured it out so soon!
Josh, I just wanted say thank you so much for sharing all the details about jumping puzzles and the camera design decisions with us. I really enjoyed reading them and I absolutely love the jumping puzzle aspect of GW2.
Frankly, from all the MMOs I have played, there isn’t alot of developers who would sit down and actually chat to players in a manner like yours. I really appreciate you taking the time to do this.
Unfortunately, it seems that in every game there are players who think that designing feature X would take time away from feature Y. This might have being somewhat true in the old days with a small development team, but as you said, it is rarely true these days when you have separate development teams doing their own thing.
This one that you’re working on.. I suspect you cannot talk much about it, but can you say whether it will be for a currently existing zone or for an as-of-yet unannounced zone? Is it themed for a specific holiday, or is it more general purpose?
Everything about it is brand new. I mean… everything. So it’s going to take a while. Give it a couple months.
The problem with the jump puzzles in WvW is that they do a few things:
- They draw players who have no interest in WvW into WvW, which takes up queue slots from players who do want to contribute to WvW
- Their rewards provide a lot of siege and Badges of Honor, which makes them feel necessary for WvW players who have no interest in them
- They create a lot of animosity because players who prefer to do the JPs and not PvP cannot without being attacked by other players, due primarily to the willful griefing that the JP encourages (a lot of players love ruining the day of the players who do the JP but are not very good at PvP)
[VZ] Valor Zeal – Stormbluff Isle – Looking for steady, casual-friendly NA raiders!
And even if it is not a JP, the labyrinth in Flame Temple Tombs in Diessa Plateau is a very good one.
Uh… I made Diessa Plateau and I don’t know what you’re referring to. Is it new content?
It’s this mini-dungeon: http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Flame_Temple_Tombs
Pretty sure it’s been in since beta, you do a meta-event to attack a firey place and open up a portal that ports you into the mini-dungeon and then there’s some underwater parts with torches and tunnels or something. And some ruins and stuff.
Lots of videos on youtube, like this one http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4SVZnP-QCTQ
Oh right. I forgot it’s final name. I was just calling it the water temple when I was working on it. That’s when Lisa and I first teamed up, and why I recruited her to help me with the one I’m currently working on. She’s the most talented scripter/designer/content person at Anet as far as I’m concerned.
One suggestion… when you create timed puzzles, add multiple difficulty modes. At the easiest mode, a person would get the most time to complete the puzzle and receive the achievement at the end. At the higher difficulty, there would be better chest rewards but less time to complete the puzzle.
Already on it. I’m currently placing props in my map that will only appear in Baby Mode that will create bridges over the difficult parts. Normal Mode will have none of those. And Stupid Mode… well, if you’ve ever played I Want To Be The Guy or Syobon Action (AKA Cat Mario) you’ll know what to expect. And all with rewards/titles commensurate with the effort involved.
Anyway, Scavenger’s Chasm is one of my favourites too. I have done it so many times now, I have started to time how fast I would go through it. (10 min atm)
It’s interesting how much love I’m seeing for that one on this thread. In general I’ve mostly heard negative feedback on it. In each JP I’ve done, I’ve tried to explore an element to its fullest. Weyandt’s Revenge was narrative, Griffonrook Run was a 2-part setup where you have to strategically plan your rout, then race to finish it, Clock Tower is straight up race , and Scavenger’s Chasm was all exploration/discovery. I’m a very discovery-oriented player myself, so I loved the building the Chasm and making the little hidey holes. This next one I’m doing is so massive that I’m getting to do a bit of everything in it, so it’s been a super fun experience.
Yes, you can simply compare the situation to the camera in other MMO’s. I have never encountered a problem with the camera in an MMO except in GW2. The problem is not really the camera and JP’s, it’s simply the camera.
The only problem I have is that (as you said) the JP’s weren’t meant to be “real content”, but as a bonus.
Now, they’re suddenly required to finish a monthly.
If they’re required, they should be tweaked or repaired so that all races can have a true chance to do the puzzles without the player becoming outrageously annoyed and frustrated due to things the player has no control over.
Or they shouldn’t be required to be done…ever…as they are “bonus” content only.
Thank you for your consideration in this.
So what your saying is that you dont understand that most people who want First person view would actualy be A-OK with it just being a head level view of your surroundings much like looking through your characters eyes
only with no weapons rendered and at worst your camera just move’s quickly when you dodge.
Haha… no. No that’s not what I’m saying. I’m saying it’s not a simple matter to do what you are saying. And even if it was, I doubt most of us would be happy with the results, simply because it would feel like a half-implemented system. Which is what you are describing. This is not to say that all the systems we’ve ever implemented were 100% perfect. That’s obviously not the case But they are always a completely DESIGNED system. Whereas your proposal would break a lot of things.
hell most of us probably don’t even want it for combat. ((many would probably use it for screen shots or Video’s turning the UI off as well. Make’s makeing a machinima a Lot harder.))
I totally understand that. But most people would still get into combat while in FP and then we’d need to figure out what to do there. Can of worms.
you can role in oblivion and skyrim in First person you know what it looks like, you move forward quickly
Yes. A game that was designed from the beginning to have a FP cam, and had previous games in the series with FP cams.
FYI good Machinima’s = Free game advertisement.
Totally agree with you there. I’d love nothing more than to provide a suite of tools to facilitate better screenshots, clips, machinima, etc.
(oh and what ever happened to the Dev option for FP view that was in the early builds)
It was removed for the reasons cited above. It was an experimental hack that helped us to determine that it would be too much work for launch. I have no idea if it will ever be picked up again, but I hope so.
One other thing to think about is character height and width. Small characters have no disadvantage – they can move and jump as far as the tallest characters. But it seems that the characters bounding box does affect interaction with the environment, and it is most noticeable to me in jumping puzzles. For example, the water slide in the pirate’s cove jp in LA is much more forgiving for a small asura than a fat char. And there are a couple of jumps in the chandelier room in the EB jp that my taller characters often bump their heads on, missing the jump (and forcing a frustrating restart), whereas my shorter characters never seem to have any problem.
Do larger characters have a larger bounding box when being targeted by AOE? Are they easier to left-click on in a zerg situation? I don’t know the answer, but if so then it creates an unfair situation.
No. All characters have identical collision and hit boxes. The only difference they have on the system side is the camera target, and that is what causes all the trouble in JP race discrepancies. If they didn’t then you would be staring at your Norn’s butt all day, or only see the very top of your Asura’s head.
just don’t stick us into a cutscene again please. Any sort of lag makes you die before you are out of the cutscene =/
There will be no waiting between tries on this one.
Anet cant program a camera properly(or design a puzzle properly, either way it comes down to broken/lazy coding)
Step 1: Dedicate time, effort, talented devs and resources to create jumping puzzles.
Step 2: Promote Jumping Puzzles as a big feature of the game.
Step 3: Change the camera at the last minute to break all of the jumping puzzles and half of the vistas.
Step 4: Launch the game because “it’s ready”.
Here’s how it worked. I started putting little jumping challenges into my maps several years ago. About a year and a half ago Colin and a couple other designers decided that these were fun enough to turn into some kind of bonus content. About a year ago all the other map artists were told to put a bonus jumping challenge or two in all their maps. We were in our polish phase and these were never intended to be anything more than small diversions for people who like platforming. Not a lot of time was dedicated to this because it was seen almost as Easter Eggs. Just fun little hidden places to discover. As such, JPs were never advertised as primary content, never included in world complete, never required for any story step, and never containing loot that could not be obtained elsewhere.
Because JPs are such a minor part of the game, specific camera issues that are primarily caused by them are not super high on the list of systems that demand the camera code bends to their needs. This does not mean that JP camera issues are ignored by the programmers who work on the camera, simply that they have to prioritize things. And while I’m not happy with the way the camera works because I spend a lot my time doing JPs, I know the engine optimization guys are not happy either because part of the compromise they have to make with us JP guys means that there are places where the world drops out because the camera can get through the occlusion planes. If the optimization guys had it there way 100% the camera would never even get close to a wall and we would build all our maps as flat planes with waist high walls. (Not that they actually want that, but that would be the ideal for avoiding world-dropping bugs) Since the camera has to serve two or three masters, who all want it to do different things, its current implementation is a compromise. This is not due to laziness or bad coding. We simply don’t hire lazy people or bad coders, and we get rid of any who show that tendency.
One issue that a non-developer would not know is the difference between creating a single-player game and an MMO. So it’s easy to look at Uncharted’s camera or Skyrim’s camera and say “Why don’t they just do it that way?” In fact, a lot of us artists DO say that to the coders. And then we get taught a lesson in how incredibly more complex an MMO engine has to be. The sheer amount of dependencies on any one system is staggering, and there is hardly ever a time where a programmer slaps their forehead and says “Oh, I never THOUGHT about just doing like Skyrim!” There are always REASONS that our systems are the way they are. None of this is to say that all our systems are perfect and our team is perfect and nothing will improve. Of course we aren’t perfect, and we are just as frustrated by the limitations and quirks as you are.
So yeah, had we been inflexible, we would have not allowed JPs in the game because they expose weaknesses in the camera. Had we been omniscient, we would have planned the camera from the start to work with the extreme geometry that JPs have. Had we been perfect, maybe we could have come up with a solution to work for all the systems at once perfectly. We are none of those things. What we are is a bunch of people who love making this game and who are constantly looking for ways to provide interesting and new kinds of content. That means pushing against the limits of what our engine can do, then iterating the engine to try to keep up with the design ideas. It’s a process, not and end point. There will never be a point at which we are all happy with the game and declare it to be the perfect representation of our design wishes.
I’m currently in a conversation with the latest ‘owner’ of the camera system and we’ll see what comes of that.
Can’t just switch camera systems. The system is the way it is in order to accommodate a number of systems including an occlusion system that makes things on the other side of walls not render, and messing with the camera collision can push it through walls then you end up with half the world disappearing at random times. This is just one of the important systems that need the camera to behave a certain way. In the big picture, having the world drop away is higher on the priority list than making all the jumping challenges feel good. It would have been nice to have had a final camera when most of the JPs were being built, but the occlusion system didn’t get in until near the end of production, so we couldn’t have foreseen the crazy camera demands it would have. We can make little tweaks to the existing JPs, but that’s got it’s own can of worms associated with it, like introducing new bugs. As to a First Person Cam, I would LOVE it. But that’s ANOTHER big can of worms, as we would have to create a new system for how we reconcile the direction of the camera to the orientation of the player’s face as they do all sorts of crazy maneuvers like back-flips, cartwheels, 720 spins, etc. Not to mention dealing with how to render the weapons and attacks which were not created with that viewpoint in mind.
So what your saying is that you dont understand that most people who want First person view would actualy be A-OK with it just being a head level view of your surroundings much like looking through your characters eyes
only with no weapons rendered and at worst your camera just move’s quickly when you dodge.
hell most of us probably don’t even want it for combat. ((many would probably use it for screen shots or Video’s turning the UI off as well. Make’s makeing a machinima a Lot harder.))
you can role in oblivion and skyrim in First person you know what it looks like, you move forward quickly
FYI good Machinima’s = Free game advertisement.
(oh and what ever happened to the Dev option for FP view that was in the early builds)
(edited by UnderdogSMO.9428)