Guild Wars 2

Was in CoE a few weeks back. PUG group of 4 Necromancer and 1 Warrior. I was a Necro, of course. P2 subject alpha 2 we wipe at least 3 times. Everyone runs their own build. I ask Necros to all equip dagger to do dps and break crystals, trait Transfusion for DS heals, and trait and run wells for AoE heal and dps, then stack on subject alpha. Super easy win in less than 30 sec with no one dropping below 90%. Traiting was pure overkill. No one needed DS.

Build makes a huge difference, sometimes. Communicating what to run and why really works.

It does not take that long to level to 80.
Just do it. I have done it eight times. You can can, too.
Revy will take 1 month, max, without all the xp scrolls and whatnot.

Chronomancer Brings a lot to Mesme, i think, but was not well previewed.

Guardian gets some ranged damage, control, and mobility but may not be useful outside of WvW and HoT content.

Necromancer got another buff to trash mob farming but PvP should also benefit. WvW depends on whether zergs go more ranged; and they might with all the chat about new elite lines.

Should ask devs for green sparkling dust effects that spew from the end.

Grave Digger DPS will depend upon how foolish your targets are. I consider it a PvE skill.

The amount of slowing caused by chill does not seem to have changed but the preview did not show what happens when one chill overlaps with another.

As a guess, i would say two chills add duration but burning will stack in intensity so the same is still possible for chill. PvE will have the same problem with lost condition damage with chill as it does with burning.

It is still hard to believe just how amazingly OP Reaper is against closely spaced target dummies!

I already feel stupid OP!

It is too early for me to guess with any confidence but WvW may have a great deal more ranged fighting than just Ele and Ranger. Necromancer might be better ranged, too.

“Rune of Vampirism: Updated the sixth tier ability (mist form) to activate when struck while under 25% health, and profession-specific skills are no longer usable.”

Thief could also get more AoE damage like Mes is getting wells but it seems less likely than more ranged power.

Keep in mind there are two types of conditions; one does damage and the other is CC. Ranger can already perma-burn, stack vulnerability, and knock-back. Bind, blind, cripple, weakness, chill, those are things that help close range fighting and also synergize with a pet.

It feels like Ranger is strong at ranged fighting but there could be more options for melee.

ronpierce.2760:

On the flip side, I often feel like Necromancers are the most realistic community. I don’t support moving away from that. It’s the reason I love most Necros and I stay away from thieves and Engineers. :P

True, Necromancer’s version of euphoria is pessimistic compared to Mesmer’s Disco Ball idea

The whole group life siphon thing sounds great but PvE has to change to need it. Right now, might, stealth, and reflect are wanted.

I am guessing here but staff might have a bunch of CC on it like bind, blind, chill, and weakness. Range may be medium though. Sword or axe would probably help it.

Edit: To explain, some lockdown on targets to help the pet and reduce mobility would help.

Long range dps / CC with less mobility seems likely to me. No reason Ranger should have all the fun. Even Guard is getting range.

This is a reality check for all Necromancer mains who are repressed from years of being OP in ideal situations and somewhat less so in normal play.

Stop worrying about how to to nerf ourselves.

Please.

If a target aggro’s, it is a target. I see no real reason turrets, spirits, or elementals should not be considered opponents just like minions. It is a player’s choice to brining AI pets to a PvP party so they should count, IMO.

If War is for noobs, where does that leave pet classes?

I suppose banners are pets, though. Maybe Mickey can make banners dance and carry water.

Focus is my favorite. A holy warrior option that trades damage for group buffs so banners are unnecessary. War can use other utilities, then. There is too much reliance on banners in the game and it screws build diversity.

War needs some interesting play. Kits do not seem like that to me.

Think about what War needs and does not need. Group healing and stealth come to mind.

Now, what might War give up a little of? Mobility or dps are options.

tetrodoxin.2134:

Yet another offhand? Noooooooooooooooo

War horn could be main hand.

We could get a mind virus like badgerbadgerbadger.com

Sniper makes the most sense to me. Look for conditions and CC on it trading high spike damage for controlling the target. Maybe 1500 range, too.

Engi could easily get shouts but I wonder what function they might serve.

My guess is Engineer’s elite may be a direct damage trait line trading condition application for higher dps.

Unfortunately, there are not many weapons that are Engineer-like. The firearms are used, already. Too bad a machine gun or shovel are out of the running. Hammer and dagger come to mind and dagger would fit with a purely dps specialization.

Don’t worry about Necro. Kite the Reaper.

My guess is War will have an option to trade mobility for something. Defiance might be it.

What would Engi trade?

Reaper can be easily kited. On top of that, I suspect Ele will get counters for tanky professions and more kiting options.

3 / 9 elite lines shown and we think the dev’s will make Necro OP?

Edit: fixed math failure

Oh, well that is fine, then, provided some other professions cannot mitigate the proposed “Op-ness” of what was shown in the preview.

We are assuming other professions use their current meta-builds.

Too long; almost did not read.
Now, confused. What do you want to suggest for chilling force?

It’s a legit build. Necromancer does not get a lot of condition damage without scepter compared to direct damage. Weakness, Terror, and boon hate, along with the minors, work almost the same whether condi or power.

A couple other points to consider on hidden ICDs are…

… If there is an effect ICD not sync’d to skill CD and you use the skill a fraction of a second too early, you now are looking at 2x effect CD.

… Hidden cool downs require the player to count them separately from the skills.

Short CDs on sigils work because they are short and attached to every attack – no guessing as to when CD is up. It just proc’s a lot so it all averages out.

Ragnarox.9601:

Obtena.7952:

Super cool Reaper trait …

Perhaps we might get a Burning Nova ability some day? SO close.

You wish, did you forgot? We are in a good place.

Necro is in a good place, too, so think positively.

The problem, I think, with ICD proc’s is they need to be fast enough to proc’ reliably. A powerful proc’ on a long icd is just gambling for a chance at something big. In a fight that takes a limited amount of time, you want the trait to proc at a reliable rate, like every time you enter DS or every time the skill is used.

I would rather heals, skills, conditions, or boons be smaller than wonder if I will get lucky.

Would it be bad to say screw minion spawns and give Tainted Shackles on every target hit?

What do you think of trading might for 2 sec vigor and 2 sec retal for each target?

Thank you, Karl. Congratulations, Holl.

I think I will keep waiting on salvaging condition stat gear.

Bhawb.7408:

I dislike Jagged Horrors because they are worthless unless you have Death Nova, and that shouldn’t be a requirement to use the skill.

The bleeds can be useful, if they actually land. It is too easy to kite them.

A projectile minion could be good but bone fiend and wurm are kind of strong and the attacks are too slow, assuming their health decays within 5 to 10 seconds.

Minions are not a very good option with AI as it is but the numbers of horrors help if they are fast enough to close the gap.

Trap minions would work, too. If minions applied chill with condition damage instead of bleed…

Right now, all of Necromancer’s conditions scale with the duration attached to Spite. Only fear, poison, bleed, burning and confusion use the condition damage stat.

Chill, blind, vulnerability, weakness, and the rest only use duration and chill skills have direct damage glommed on the side. It would be nice if chill had its own damage like burning so gear did not have to be so power-crit dependent.

Jagged horrors are fine if they have a movement bonus like swiftness.

I totally missed chill damage scaling with condition damage. Right now, I think skills with chill include flat damage that scales with power; no condition damage involved.

A switch to chill doing condition damage would seriously affect non-reaper builds.

I so wish Dark Path was faster and more reliable. That would fix everything.

Chill is pretty powerful. If Necromancer can permachill, it will be nerfed.

Life siphon does not have to be large but they should scale with the number of attackers. I would very much like defenses like toughness also scaling with incoming dps but the Reaper traits and skills may mitigate Necromancer’s ease of being focused and burned down. It does require the Reaper line, though, so without it Necro is not fixed.

My main concerns are still (1) dungeon and mists races to a point or through a gauntlet, and (2) lack of group power-ups like fire fields or AoE stealth. Professions without these party buffs are unpopular because the game rewards them disproportionately.

Here is my feedback after a couple days of contemplation.

Make Might and Vulnerability harder to come by for all professions and Necromancer could be fine. It is too easy for a group to stack 25 vulnerability and 25 might. Either reduce the odds of getting it or change the scaling from linear to one of diminishing returns. An example of diminishing returns is having the damage bonus for each stack of might decrease slightly as the total grows; i.e., damage bonus= stack – 0.2*stack^2

I like the effort being put into Reaper and Blood Magic. It shows Arenanet is aware of the shortcomings and desires a true fix for them instead of a patch like Dhuumfire was. Allowing heals through DS is a big step toward sustainability. Without letting anything through DS, it is too easy to miss out on group support.

Chill is great. It has excellent synergy with Necromancer’s core skill set and traits but I wonder if the condition itself should be converted to one that stacks in intensity. It is an “ultimate” type condition with a huge effect – not as big as a hard CC or invulnerability mechanic but it is strong. Perhaps make it stack to a cap of 3 with 10% to 50% effectiveness.

Death Magic will not be good until minions are improved enough to be reliable in all game modes. They do not have to be the strongest option but they need to stop flipping between working great and being totally useless. Their decision making time, pathing errors, and susceptibility to AoE damage is too limiting right now.

Curses still bugs me with its high bonus to scepter. It is like scepter is being punished if people do not take lingering conditions but I understand the problems with condition damage and its uncertain future of actually proc’ing if condition cleanses and resistance buffs can crimp its effectiveness. Curses is also the only condition damage trait line we have and scepter is the only dedicated condition damage weapon.

Speaking of condition cleanses, it feels like there is too much conditions and cleansing in the game. Conditions and boons are everywhere and they seem to have lost some of their importance.

Signets are something I want looked at hard for Necromancer. They have no theme, very little synergy, and several are well below par for usefulness. Spite is probably the best because the passive is always useful and the active is strong. Locust is next best because the passive is useful and the active scales, even if it scales kind of poorly. Plague is nearly useless because neither active nor passive are worth a slot with all the cleansing going on from other professions and its cool down is unjustifiably long. Undeath is a wasted slot because cast time and cool down time are too slow. I can run over and res people faster. Take away the targeting requirement and shorten both casting and the cool down. War can drop a banner as that profession seems to be forced to carry it, anyway. Finally, Vampirism does nothing anyone wants or needs – nothing! There is no condition management, the heals are worthless, and the damage increase is unnecessary.

Runs and sigils should be re-evaluated, if Arenanet is not doing that, already.

It is the power scaling, the multiplication of effectiveness, that boon and CC professions have that is the hidden factor in why Necromancer is lower tier.

If other profession get their power scaling toned down a bit, everything will be fine outside of PvE. There is too much positive feedback, synergy, in boon and burst builds.

Inside older PvE, the only fix for the stealth / support (boon) / mobility problem is to redesign PvE.

Necromancer’s Reaper will be strong, though, and may end up getting nerfed.

First impression feedback

Group utility was one thing I was hoping to see more of. I think there was improvement, particularly in AoE CC and debuff, but the rest I will have to trust to Arenanet as they rework PvE and mob AI.

Blood Magic is apparently still under review for siphon / sustain. Crossing my fingers here, too. Getting some form a healing through DS should help, too, but I would not want it tied to particular builds. It could be stronger when traited but I was hoping a small fraction of all heals would be let through. Just like damaging or killing opponents generates small amounts of Life Force, receiving a heal while in DS should let a small amount of it through to health (2-4%).

Chill has very good synergy with the current skills and traits. Necromancer is all about power, now. Reaper should work a lot better with chill than any previous chill build, even back when superior runes worked very well in pairs and quads.

Condition damage looks less important than ever. Dhuumfire is still an obscure trait and will have to stay that way. No one will build Necromancer gear around the burning condition and it is stuck in Curses with scepter and condition damage. Raising the bleed cap in PvE may be the saving grace for condition builds, there.

Curses seems less important to the core Necromancer skill set so pure condition damage builds with low power output may go away in favor of hybrid-type builds. With three full lines to trait, I expect Curses to ride shotgun more often than being in the driver’s seat. Corrupt-shout Reaper may be too weird. We’ll just have to see how it works out. Corruption utilities may lose out for having low synergy.

Shout-well Reaper looks promising as well as a spectral Reaper. Spite ought to work very well. Any skills with chill or AoE have potential synergy.

Mobility is improved, though it is hard to say more at this point. The whirl finishers are a huge relief. Any finishers at all are a massive improvement. The emphasis on chill and the new gap-closers really help and lead me to believe PvE Necro’s will use a lot of Reaper even after the shine wears off.

Without Reaper, Necromancer may not see any PvE performance improvement and be sort of stuck with limited build variety like Warrior and banners.

Minion Master gets some love, I think, from Reaper, but not overly much. Still waiting on AI improvements. The gap closer on great sword may pull targets into position for minions to aggro but the Necromancer may as well do all the work with cleave. Minions are pretty much single-target dps and exploding flesh bags of poison that are good on vets in PvE and maybe not horrible in PvP but definitely bad on bosses able to wipe them and at handling multiple trash mobs. That is a pretty narrow range of goodness. Shouts definitely look better with Reaper than pets do. Death Magic may end up being neglected.

Popular lines to take may be
Spite, Curses, Reaper – hybrid condi shouts
Spite, Blood Magic, Reaper – power/support wells
Curses, Soul Reaping, Reaper – hybrid DS spectral
Spite, Soul Reaping, Reaper – power DS shout

War horn and off-hand dagger may lose a bit of run time to focus. Horn, in particular, may lose a touch of its popularity if Spectral Walk is taken more often. Focus definitely improved with the chill build.

Reading the interview Muchacho linked in another thread, Taunt is not likely.

Still, the idea of support by holding aggro may still be possible. Unfortunately, the PUGs I play with are not well trained for this type of cooperative play. GW2 does not have “roles” for players to train in. Tanking 1vX, the Necro is counting on heals, buffs, and debuffs from allies. gw2 does not encourage this.

Muchacho.2390:

Anchoku.8142:

If Necromancer shouts include a lot of Taunt, that might have good group support by gathering opponents in a small area for nuking. Of course, without a lot of sustainability the Necro dies, too.

We wont be getting taunt.

See
http://www.mmorpg.com/gamelist.cfm/game/473/feature/9691/Guild-Wars-2-Jon-Peters-on-the-Reaper-Elite-Spec.html

Well, Poo. Thanks for the link.

Been thinking about playing style for Reaper

If Necromancer gets damaging shouts, maybe Taunt, had the DS invulnerability skill, AoE power damage and soft CC…

Necromancer will be the tank profession whose job is to collect aggro and hold the position for the rest of the team.

It’s like another game’s Guardian.

If Necromancer shouts include a lot of Taunt, that might have good group support by gathering opponents in a small area for nuking. Of course, without a lot of sustainability the Necro dies, too.

Reaper will be awesome farming bags in Orr and events like Modnir.