Guild Wars 2

Berserker is my recommendation for a laurel purchase.

The only possible use for Signet of Undeath’s passive is when camping sceptre-dagger and, even then, it under-performs for the slot it takes. The active is still useless in all applications. I tried it in PvE (Orr temple runs with plenty of players being downed) after the last balance. Its failure to res fully dead players makes the 3 second cast time utterly impractical. In all test cases, the Signet was a waste of a slot.

The Signet has no synergy with Blood Magic (healing support) or Curses (sceptre LF support).

If SoU res’d 1 player from being fully dead and added LF generation to sceptre AA, it might be viable despite being a Signet.

Remember, the monk’s outfit was adjusted to have more flare around the hips. It looks worse but must have solved some clipping issue.

Outfits can be so exaggerated in design that I usually pass on them.

Outfits I like are the pirate, cook, monk, and maybe a few others that are not so over-the-top. Town clothes and the clothes that were changed to tonics, along with many of the low level crafting or dropped armors are my favorites.

Dinas Dragonbane.2978:

Zefiris.8297:

Not to mention that power is weak right now – giving it a bit more damage that way wouldn’t exactly hurt the game.

If power is weak what’s the point of making condi stronger by giving it another weapon option? Just found that a little ironic :P

With one trait, Deathly Chill, Reaper can sneak into a lower meta tier. Buff power by 10k dps to the mid 30s and Deathly Chill will still add chunk more dps even on full Berserker. Nerf Deathly Chill and Reaper receives a lot of hate in PvE. I think something is going to happen to Reaper when Scourge condi releases; core, too.

Right now, I am placing odds on a severe nerf to Scourge affecting corruption rate and burning dps.

However, I also foresee a reduction in boon dependency in WvW and PvP. Scourge’s corruption rate cannot be an accident. The balance team may be trying to cut back on boon dependency. This is just a theory, though.

Interesting idea, Dadnir. I like it.

I also like suggestions from others to add a short delay to the decay. One second before the barrier starts delaying should help flatten barrier performance.

I pointed out Death Magic needs review in my weekend feedback post in the general GW2 forum, too.

Scourge

I liked how shroud no longer blocks use of non-shroud skills. It is a radical change for the profession and will take time to learn. I also liked the added group utility and burning damage.

Scourge can be very glassy and needs its corruptions and condition bursts to defeat opponents before being owned by control effects.

I know a lot of other Necromancer-mains will disagree but I would like more separation between sceptre bleed and poison dps and torch burn, torment, and cripple dps to prevent maximum profession dps being a combination of the two by a significant margin. Greatsword and sceptre could not be used simultaneously so bleeds from one would replace many of the bleeds from the other and the rest of Reaper dps was power-based. Deathly Chill may be the one trait preventing power-Reaper from good dps because the hybrid build defines its upper dps limit by a large margin.

Ideally, core sceptre builds would have roughly similar condition damage as a glassier, bursty, burning, melee Scourge. It would be great if a core condition build dps equalled condi-Reaper. The potential for condition dps bursts and group utility at higher personal risk feels like Scourge should be similar.

On a side note, sceptre could use more life force generation without an elite trait line but I had no problems with LF using dagger, axe, or even staff.

Core and Reaper power builds could use a dps buff, which would be negated by taking Scourge for a hybrid power-condi build where significant power would be traded in a Curses/Scourge build.

Group utility seems dubious right now. Blood Magic/Scourge works but I have yet to really test this. Scourge’s ability to be accepted in Raids depends upon the combination of minor heals and minor barriers, though the portal may be the one, defining utility.

Take a hard look at Death Magic. It does not do anything useful aside from its rather weak minion buffs. I would suggest making Death Magic very un-selfish. Add sharable group defensive utility to a few traits like making spectral skills have a shareable aspect; e.g., Wall lasts 2 sec longer, Armor proc’s an aura for nearby allies, Walk acts like a swiftness shout, and Grasp imcreases hard CC duration by 1 sec for nearby allies.

There are no good finishers on Scourge, or fields for that matter. Even if dps is fine without them, the complexity of watching for fields and using them is something I liked about Reaper. Perhaps consider if Oppressive Collapse could be made a blast finisher.

In general, I do not mind Scourge being more delicate and requiring healing and blocking support if the utility and/or dps are attractive enough.

Corruptions are good and, though there is some crying, the boon hate may change the WvW and PvP environment so players are more cautious about boons, conditions, and ignoring them due to passive and secondary skill effects.

Dhuumfire and terror may need some caps or ICD to limit condition bursts. Likewise, individual professions could use a review of low boon output and high cleanse builds. Popping boons like a hand full of skittles before facing a supported Scourge will be painful. Boonless builds could use love, assuming corruption skills have a purpose in PoF.

Most important on my mind is being able to sustain good dps on Scourge with or without sceptre or Curses so the profession is not dominated by one build and one trait. It would be nice to be able to do good hybrid dps with Spite and Soul Reaping or offer attractive support with Death Magic and Blood Magic. Curses and Soul Reaping would still be mostly condition damage. Reviewing, and adding, modifiers that synergize for Spite and Death Magic that depend upon other trait lines to scale up on effectiveness would ensure more variety in builds. Nice work with Blood Magic and Soul Reaping, though.

Consider making shades for opponent players redish for clarity.

Darkrye, the two elite lines have different applications and are will probably be adjusted before 9.22.

I would not compare them right now and maybe not ever. They will both likely have advantages in different situations.

I would like to see burning added to the third hit if Dhuumfire is traited.

Edit: Also, add 150 to 225 healing if dagger is traited.

Gig Shade may be a raid trait

Great review, EremiteAngel! Thanks for your hard work.

Yours, too, Brujeria and Ravezaar.

IMO, dps meters are not a problem but people do not have a right to use them, either, we have permission.

Please remember that we have no “rights” in this game. NCSOFT and Arenanet grants us temporary, limited licenses on its own terms, which we agree to. We do not own the game on our computers. We do not own individually-priced content like skins purchased through the gem store. We do not even own gems purchased with real money. Read the dark gray banner at the bottom of this forum page for a reminder on rights.

Currently, Guild Wars 2 allows players choice in how we group for raids and other content. This is not a “right.”

We do have permission to join raids, provided we are properly licensed to do so; i.e., purchased a license to Heart of Thorns. That license does not distinguish between players with different goals, preferences, emotional maturity, or tolerance levels. The abilities to exclude players from a group or kick players are tools provided by Arenanet.

Remember that the tool to “kick” another player is primarily to remove those who have left the instance, voluntarily or DC’d, or are otherwise unresponsive so the slot can be filled by another player and the content can be completed. Use of the tools for grouping and kicking is not a right but a privilege subject to change at any time without the players’ permission.

Therefore, next time anyone uses the grouping tools for any reason, stop for a moment to reflect on whether you used them as the developers intended. If the tools are used in unintended ways that Arenanet determines negatively impacts their game, the tool may be changed or removed from the game or, perhaps, only from raids. Individual users of the tool may have licenses pulled or restricted, too, just like those determined to be botting or AFK farming who may have been reported using another tool people should remember exists.

We, the player base, have permission to form groups for “speed runs”, to “min-max” builds, to use “compliant dps meters”, and to “grind for loot” but we do not have a right to do so or a right to prevent or deter other players from playing how they want or how they can. If raiding becomes too toxic an environment for some players or too lucrative a loot farm for others such that the experience falls short of its intent, Arenanet has the right change that formula.

Please also remember that Arenanet can track how many times a player is kicked from a group as well as how many times a player votes to kick others. Use the tool wisely and within Arenanet’s intended scope.

Arenanet can review everyone’s posts here on the forum, too. Posts filled with vitriol, arrogance, spelling errors, and horrible grammar mark the author as uneducated, immature, inconsiderate, and unwilling to put thought or effort into her or his work. I suggest keeping that in mind.

I do not consider sceptre a short range weapon.
Low power, no condi burst, no cleave, low LF, no damage mitigation
It is a kiting weapon. It works at close range but is not designed for it.

I was also disappointed torch was not main hand. Perhaps it was because torch has no right handed animations to draw from.

As long as torch can be used effectively without sceptre I will be fine. An alternative to sceptre AA for melee condition damage has been on my wish list almost since game release.

Dagger-torch / Axe-horn hybrid condi-burst

Good point, Fuzion. Some days I swear people try to MPK me in PvE roaming.

Edit: love how players use me to peel magma elementals while I am salvaging of just chilling on the BLTP.

You put a lot of effort into this and I appreciate it.

We have minions and are getting burning.

I prefer to daydream about getting Agony, instead.

It is not as if black and green are pretty…

Maybe now my skills will not clash with as hard with my pink and white cook’s outfit

Dadnir.5038:

Edit 3: More happy news is Scourge does not have unwanted combo fields.

It does… dark field on elite skill.

You’re right. Oh, fudge, what is anyone supposed to do with it? Scourge would have no finisher outside of a crap build with minions and staff.

I will fix that.

I am happy for the PvP reverse splits and the buff to my black balloon, although I still cannot use it to float up and over Tyria.

Edit: I am also happy Necromancer has a serious cleave weapon and elite. That was a big improvement over core, whatever it’s shortcomings as a power weapon.

Edit 2: One more thing to be happy about is the dedicated melee condi damage elite coming with burning. This is something many of us have been asking for for, literally, years and it comes with potential for group support, yet another years-old request.

Edit 4: Scourge finally lets Necromancer use skills on both sides of the health muffin when using LF. Additionally, signets now keep their passive in shroud.

Edit 5: Removed edit 3 – no fields that suck.

Wow, think of all things we have asked for and have gotten!

I would guess converting might to torment and cripple is a good trade. Stab is also better converting rather than flipping to fear.

I like Nefarious favor’s rapid flipping of conditions to boons on allies. That could be attractive to groups; especially if it means other professions do not have to bring as much condition cleanse.

@Necrataal
I suspect Scourge will be tricky in PvP and need allies at all times. As a primarily support build, it will be focused even harder.

75 concentration / expertise is 5% duration, if I did the math right

Drarnor Kunoram.5180:

I can see potential. Not sure on the choice of Unholy Martyr, though.

I have concerns about UM, too, but I was not sure if Transfusion would be desirable.

On the runes, I dithered between burning and torment duration, too. I would really like to mix some sinister equipment in as well.

Thanks for the kind review

Imagine torch and punishment skills in here

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vRAQNAY3IMwFKYbGAtwsIK7+F-TxhAQBR7gAwtjAAEV/xmKBr2+DA4BAASlfAA-e

I wish qt would just test 3 builds per profession: Power dps, condi dps, and support (using support metrics).

There is no reason not to have 2 or 3 condition builds but condi Reaper is the meta build for PvE and it is entirely due to a single trait in what is otherwise a power-based elite line.

Letting Necromancer continue using Deathly Chill until PooF, when a more dedicated condition trait line is released, makes sense. However, this is where the problem lies.

If Reaper receives a power buff so players do not need bleeds for fair dps, then DC will make the condi build dps even higher and people will still only want condi Reaper. A condition Reaper is, after all, a hybrid power-condi build and not full condi like core Necromancer’s sceptre gives.

Arenanet will want (I hope) to pull power builds out of the waste bin but can only do that without increasing condi dps, which cannot happen with Deathly Chill as it is.

Expac 1, HoT, released with a balance update and I expect that to happen, again. The August update I regard as a partial update to try many of the planned changes coming with Pants on Fire. However, I expect some of the Scourge balance changes could not be implemented without breaking something and this month helps Arenanet see how the August changes shake out.

I am guessing PvE bosses will reapply their boons very frequently. Some new bosses may do things like have 100% protection up time

Great posts, here! Thank you, Lily

No mobility, blocks, shroud, or other damage immunity could make scourge very glassy if barriers are thin due to equipment stats

If Scourge is using all of its LF for dps, will Scourge shroud, which is a fraction of core and Reaper shroud, be a useful defensive mechanic. The question is whether a dps Scourge will be downed a lot having only dodges and thin barriers.

Yes, barriers and boon strips/corruptions do not sound valuable enough,
if so,
Scourge will have to bring top class dps,
and,
Will a dps-Scourge have enough sustain using only barriers?

Mount had too much sway and loose motion as if their muscles were made of gelatin. They did not move like real animals and reminded me of a bouncing ooze but even oozes have more precise movement. It also felt like there is too much lag between commands and reactions similar to a synchrony problem.

Please tighten the movement of the mount so it works more like a real animal.

As a support build, Scourge has me worried because I do not see much that will prevent dps from cratering if condition and power damage are not maximized. What I would like to see is a trait that converts sustain stat’s to offensive stat’s or healing power so support gear does not destroy competitiveness. Arenanet has already explained that barriers will scale strongly with vitality and healing.

Using support stat’s like vitality, toughness, or healing could end badly. Barriers do not seem potent enough to allow a low dps build to be competitive. So, here I am considering viper’s, sinister, and berserker with Spite rather than Curses, which loses some appeal if sceptre bleeds are not most of the dps, or Soul Reaping if traits are not adjusted enough.

What would you like to see for Reaper traits when it goes pure power?

For me, I would like a trait that adds 1% damage per unique condition on the target and 2% damage per unique boon on the Reaper. This should help Reaper scale in a group versus bosses.

Another idea is a trait to steal at least one boon per person per AA cycle. Remember, sceptre will not work with Reaper so its boon corruption will be absent.

Time for more ideas. Let’s hear them!

Condi Reaper is the best dps right now but is rumored to be destroyed when Scourge is released making Reaper a pure power spec.

When that happens, I hope for a buff to Reaper dps.

Drarnor Kunoram.5180:

Unless Serpent Siphon gets a massive buff, you do not want to be using it for damage. 1 stack of Poison for 2 seconds is never worth a skill slot.

I’m assuming you’re talking for raids, in which case, I would say your trait selection is correct, but I think weapons will be Scepter-Torch/Scepter-Warhorn. You absolutely 100% need the life force generation, but Dagger mainhand hurts your DPS too much in a condition build. Warhorn provides decent generation and also good breakbar damage. For utilities, the only one I see maybe making it in is Dessicate because it provides life force.

For Condi Scourge, LIFE FORCE IS DAMAGE. If you can spam F2-F5 on cooldown, you have good damage. If you can’t, I don’t see it being anything spectacular.

Also, it appears Dhuumfire will proc on the attack from sand shades (and yourself) whenever you use a Shade skill. 2 Torment and 1 Burning any time you use an instant-cast ability.

^^
This

I could see dropping both Curses and Soul Reaping using Spite for CtD, and Blood Magic for group utility. Axe-dagger / dagger-torch.

The build would be supportive but also generate tons of LF for condition bursting or high barrier up-time.

With boon support from other professions, those could be… Not bad.

I still have some big question marks

• finishers
• crit chance
• shroud traits

Murdock.6547:

1: Insanely high dps uptime. – By this, I assume you mean not being downed? Please correct if I misunderstood.
2: Incredibly simple rotation execution. Mechanically simple is only a “pro” for players unfamiliar with the profession
3: Surprisingly mobile despite what some may say. I agree that Reaper is more mobile than core but there are no mobility skills on weapons and the two utilities (Walk and Wurm) are clunky
4: Decimate defenses. What if I want to trade some health for dps?

I suppose, after the consumables nerf, conditionmancer is improved, relative to other professions, over what it was… maybe?

For power, Reaper or core (dagger) just does not scale up very well. I am afraid, with Scourge being a condi-bunker support type, power builds will continue to lag the meta. Although, Scourge will be Necromancer’s best group support build. (If it is not, I would hate to be the developer who made it, or the leaders who approved it.)

Reaper was probably supposed to be the power build but it ended up best as a hybrid condi build and too short on power. Still, it has cleave – lots of it. That one single thing made Necromancer a whole lot better than core. The chills and short-cast shouts were also a large improvement over core.

Unfortunately, Deathly Chill was needed to achieve an adequate dps. After expac 2, that will transition to a power-based trait, iirc, and Reaper will no longer work as a hybrid condi-build. Power output has to be buffed or no one will want it aside from casual PvE

maddoctor.2738:

Anchoku.8142:

Make grouping automated with no exception. Eliminate statics and kicking. Track player experience per profession for matching. Provide a rating system for competence, courtesy, and quitting.

That’s a horrible idea.
Automated system based on what? How do you count experience per profession?
Based on how many times you run the content in the past?
What kind of purpose does eliminating static groups have? Other than punishing guild groups and groups of friends who want to play together.
If you disallow kicking then you open the flood gates for griefing and trolling. No thanks.
An automated grouping system for PVE will never work and it’s absolutely terrible.

Please read the whole post before replying. There is not that much so it should be quick.

Arenanet is fully capable of automated matching. They can easily create a raid group if there are enough professions and experienced players waiting. Just indicate the wing you want using the build you want and wait. When the group is matched, a pop-up could ask for confirmation similar to Fractals.

Arenanet can track total damage, heals, and mitigated damage, per profession, per account, and add feedback from others about your own performance to determine an overall score. They know what your profession is and what your build is when you are in queue.

Your score could then be used toward a reward track just like in PvP, adjust the amount of loot that drops for you, or simply add modifiers to your luck in that instance or the next one you join.

The feedback portion of your score should be quick, easy, and voluntary.

• People who flame may be singled out for a down-rating by others in your group.
• People who kick others may receive a downgrade by the person kicked
• People who grief, troll, or otherwise give excessive negative feedback and vote opposite to the majority of the group may also be tracked in the servers and receive warnings or suspensions from raiding.
• People with low technical scores may receive reduced rewards and may have to wait longer to be assigned a group sure to win even if one person is less capable.
• People who are polite, knowledgeable, and helpful without kicking or rage-quitting may receive a lot of positive feedback from the group, leading to higher scores and increased rewards.

Fully-automated matching works and either gets rid of toxic players, or trains them to not be toxic. Good, friendly, and patient players should receive faster reward track progress. There are many of those players in GW2 and they should be rewarded for the good work they do supporting pugs, training raids, and making raids fun.

Those raiding strictly for the fastest completion time are just grinders who should get regular rewards for completing a task for a minimum of effort.

Those who make raids unfriendly or are a drag on the group should receive fewer rewards. Internal metrics, combined with negative player feedback, should give lower scores that equate to less loot and slower progression. They can keep practicing to get better, or not, but a scoring system should ensure their reward is appropriately low and the group they are matched with can make up for their deficiencies.

Automated matching can work. This game already does that in WvW and PvP. PvE already does scaling, which is another knob Arenanet has to turn.

Will you lose your static? Yes.
Will you still be able to raid with friends? Maybe, if you all join the queue together and they are on your friend list.
Will you care if you can still raid successfully? You decide.

As a side note, Arenanet should really do more to integrate voice chat applications into the game. If someone pastes a chat channel into the text box, clicking on it with the mouse should launch the appropriate app and connect the channel.

In Arenanet’s preview, Scouge was demonstrated with dagger/warhorn, not scepter/warhorn. I suspect that means something but am not sure how significant it is.

Something tells me that Scourge was meant to be a melee condi/support build rather than compete with scepter for mid-range kiting. If I had to guess, play style should be something like this:

Use scepter to kite when needed but close whenever possible, swap to dagger/horn, stack. share boons and barriers, then initiate dps burn – portal group as necessary.

This is kind of like stacking and well-bombing but should be much more flexible. The portal is probably meant to work smoother in combat than Mesmer’s port and add combat mobility to professions without ways to jump behind targets.

Barriers could be spammed taking some burden away from a dedicated healer. With shroud being little more than a thick personal barrier it should be used less often so regular healing AoE is effective more often. The addition of Blood Magic healing traits seem almost certain to make Scourge useful as an alternative healer.

I have no idea whether a toughness build might also enable Scourge to function as a secondary tank using Death Magic, provided there is a primary one, too. Minions draw plenty of aggro but are horrible versus AoE and I do not see much else in Death Magic to justify a build without them: Putrid Defense, Deadly Strength, and Corruptor’s Fever?

It is not the meter that is the problem. It is the way people are allowed to group.

Make grouping automated with no exception. Eliminate statics and kicking. Track player experience per profession for matching. Provide a rating system for competence, courtesy, and quitting.

My heart progress is stopped at 90%. Nothing left to do. All fires out and villagers healed. Just riding around the outpost, bored.

Edit: I quit the demo. May try again tomorrow.

Ah, I forgot about that. Aside from Jagged Horrors and Death Nova, I cannot think of much else that uses conditions and I never build for boons anymore.

Sceptre LF has always been a problem. A LF generation setup on weapon swap is how I handle it.

Do the punishments generate enough LF, if you use a full bar?

Reaper was light on LF and had it buffed. It also has LF generation traits.

Minions are independent of character stat’s. This allows them to do consistent dps whether the player uses a power build, condi build, or anything else.

If your minions are not doing enough damage, don’t use them. That may sound harsh but minions draw aggro in PvE reducing your incoming damage so they cannot out-dps all other Necromancer builds.

I was rather hoping it would stopped being a transform. It is a little more bursty but still has some clunkiness.

In any case, the biggest change I struggle with was to Speed of Shadows. I wish it still gave shroud CD reduction. That was the one trait in SR I used most.

I think you will want scourge’s punishments instead of BiP and MoC.

If you are playing condi-Scourge, you will be running sceptre-torch and using sceptre AA a lot for the bleeds. Scourge will apply a little burning and a more torment but bleeds will still be a large part of your dps.