Guild Wars 2

Remove dhunfire. Replace with a trait fit for power builds.

Add torment to scepter 3 – depending on number of conditions you apply a stack of equal value torment (ie: 3 conditions on target, stack of 3 torment applied).

Also just a quick observation, most peeps complaining about conditions are running zerker or bunker builds, with good vigor / protection / stability / dodges / blocks / immunities etc (so they have a great array of mitigating / avoiding physical damage and sustain in a fight) and their GOD status is challenged by – you guessed – conditions.

stof.9341:

Anelyn.4593:

Maybe IF our attacks (for condi weapon sets) also deal increased damage? Because pretty much that’s all there is, without stacking bleeds / poison there is no damage going (not everyone plays dhuunfire).

Maybe you shouldn’t expect doing much direct damage if you just use a Rabid amulet which is pretty defensive in itself :p Want more? Try the Rampager amulet maybe?

And this proves that peeps not playing necro have no idea how terrible scepter & staff direct damage component scales with power. By all means go make a 3.5k power build and let me know how much your AA chain from scepter is hitting / crits for.

It’s just the plain simple reality, without conditions, you do 0 damage. If peeps could constantly cleanse those conditions, reduce their duration / damage, your damage would become non existant. If terror would do 4-5 k damage for duration, I’d whole heartily agree that something must be changed, or if torment would stack higher or do better damage for it’s appliance.

There are plenty of options to reduce condition damage via runes / food, if you decide to not use them, nor to slot / trait towards being better against conditions (like traits that remove condition on heal / skill use, utilities that remove conditions etc) then why do you complain about not being able to shrug at conditions without having anything to help you with it? Is like a zerker d/d ele built for burst crying that he gets OHK by a backstab thief because he has 0 toughness, low vit, and slots only offensive abilities.

Maybe IF our attacks (for condi weapon sets) also deal increased damage? Because pretty much that’s all there is, without stacking bleeds / poison there is no damage going (not everyone plays dhuunfire).

So the problem is dhuunfire, or the bleeds + poison? If my marks did 2-4k damage when triggered on top of their effects, if my AA on scepter broke 1k dmg, then I’d agree with you. But as it stands, bleeds + poison are the only real damaging things coming from a non-dhuunfire condi necro. This also reduces our terror damage since we don’t have the condi duration a dhuunfire spec has, and for example personally, I don’t play with +50% fear duration trait either, I take the -20% cd on spectral skills and LF on mark triggers (because am positive the bug with summoning minions then changing skills to get some LF at start of a match will be looked at soon).

Necro’s don’t have ways to mitigate condi damage. There is nothing that makes us immune or reduces damage / duration of conditions. What we can do is cleanse or transfer some conditions via weapon skills / utility skills. This is based on class mechanics and intended role of condition / boons manipulation (look at signet of plague for example, you get conditions from nearby allies on yourself, it only makes sense to also give you an option to remove or transfer those conditions).

Regarding the removal of conditions: look at it this way. For a necro putting blind / weakness / cripple / chill is a very important defensive mechanism. Since we have 0 vigor, stability, blocks, invulns, teleports, we mitigate some damage by reducing it’s occurance (chill / cripple / blind) or reducing the damage itself to make it somewhat bearable (weakness / blind / death shroud). Comparing to other classes chain dodges, blocks, invulns, teleports, stealth etc, is like saying I want an ability to negate dodges, blocks, invluns, teleports, stealth since their application is not spread evenly across classes.

So once more, look at it from a non-biased perspective.

Change spectral wall to spectral circle / bubble, same radius as greater marks, fears anything inside towards outside, and anything trying to get inside outside. Same mechanic / cd / duration etc. Also make it reflect projectiles since is a freaking spectral thing.

How about abilities / runes / traits that slash the direct damage or just make you immune to it? Not every class has perma vigor, nor stealth, nor blocks, nor stability, nor teleports.

A very good portion of necro defense comes from applying conditions that weaken / hamper the enemy, like chill, weakness, cripple, blind, fear.

Why do you guys have such big problems in viewing this from a non biassed angle, that includes ALL classes. Everything you complain about or want changed, is pretty much directed against necros.

It doesn’t work like that. You either have to completely unlink spvp from WvW / PvE, or you just can’t make stuff work as intended in both scenarios.

Think about it, if vit stat would reduce condition damage or duration, you would end up in WvW with ~ -80% condition duration with help of food & runes. There is nothing even close to that regarding direct damage. So condition specs would have no place in WvW since you pretty much would immune all damage just by going vit gear + lyssa + food. PvE is already very bad for condition builds both to design flaws and meta (stack zerker builds to kill super fast) as well as the cap on conditions.

Regarding spvp, mesmer – as you play one, have quite decent condi removal / transfer, but that comes at expense of other utility skills which are better for team support / plays. Then again a class with such good options in builds, mobility, escapes, utility, having what you want regarding condition removal / prevention w/e, would just make it way over the top.

Regarding the ease of applying conditions, well duh, it has to be easy since their damage and effects pay off over time, meanwhile you’re doing no damage. If you could dodge conditions as you can dodge 100b and other burst skills, then the condi player would have no chance ever to even pose a threat.

That’s why peeps are annoyed of conditions. Because there is nothing you can do to avoid getting them on you, like you would denny burst skills via blocks, teleports, invisibility, dodges etc. But – that’s intended. The game is not like a jumping puzzle where as long as you time your dodges / blocks etc nothing can harm you.

So stop looking at conditions in a bad way.

Blind is fine. Weakness is fine. PvP is not tab target pve mob and press 1-2-3 KILL! You need to learn what classes can do and when they can do it (CD / initiative cost, timing etc) and pay attention to your buffs / debuffs.

Unless of course you think like a pve mob who goes sitting in the black powder getting AA spammed to death.

I think fixing the thief should look at other underused weapon sets appart from S/D & SB.

So last posts are discussing about 1v1 scenario? What happened with the AoE + 1200 range debate?

On a serious note, keep burning, but remove the talent with on crit (change it to something that fits power builds) and add the burning to one of the marks from staff. Then everyone goes back to greater marks, no more condition duration, marks have a decent cooldown so you will get less burns than before, but this time they will be AoE and unblockable. Maybe put them on reaper mark, so we get the fear + terror + burning all in one. Am a genius, I know, such easy solution to complicated problem

The utility slots are for adding a specific playstyle / flavor to your class. They are not the defining factor in CAN I PLAY THIS CLASS scenario.

No, if you play necro YOU MUST slot spectral armor, spirit walk and well of power / signet of plague in order to play necro. News at eleven, how will a minion master play only with the golem? What if you play conditionmancer (without dhuunfire) with greater marks, and you want the corruption skills and only have plague signet for breaking a stun.
It makes no sense to force a class into using SEVERAL stun breakers at cost of team utility / damage / mobility w/e. And is not that those stun breakers give you stability or anything, you break a stun just to get KD / KB / pulled back in, then stun again etc.

PS: all the trolls in this thread die to burning & terror, their screams can be heard in all Tyria.

Why peeps who never played seriously a necromancer keep coming in this thread suggesting stupid things (which revolve mainly on breaking the little synergy we have in talent trees).

Stop acting as if fears are on 5s cooldown and can be spammed, and there’s no stability / dodge / blind / kb / kd in game. Nobody gives a kitten about 1v1, is not balanced, never was, if you run into a necro with full LF and can’t beat him, guess what, you can avoid fighting him, same doesn’t work for necro.

What’s with this mentality that condition damage should be a very slow process? So you should be able to kill me with your autoattacks in 10 seconds, but my conditions should need 1 minute to kill you? WHY? Be honest here, the cooldown on all burst abilities is very small, which gives you no chance to counter / avoid more than 1 maybe 2 sequences of said burst. So it’s ok for you to be able every 10s to 100-0% someone with power/crit builds, but for a condition build I should have to wait for a minute or more? No thank you, I want to be able to kill you in 10 seconds if you don’t have any defensive cds / condition cleansing / play badly / I use all my abilities. Why do I have to stay there for 1 minute sussceptible to 6 burst intervals on average from any zerker class, just for my damage to wear you down? That makes no sense.

Burning is fine. 3-4k dmg over time. How much does your autoattack crit for with no resource cost, as a power / critdmg build? Am very positive it does way more damage over those 4s. And you can do it all time, with no ICD 10s.

But you don’t like it you say it’s op. Fine, remove it, instead add chill and increase damage by 200% on sceptre 3 because it’s patethic, so we can get 4-5k crits with it when we load something with conditions, so we still have a mini burst available.

Heck P/D thieves do 1k hits with autoattack on top of applying bleeds, how much does sceptre 1 hit for again?

On top of everything being said by the constructive and informative posts, I’d like staff AA to be changed to similar to Mesmer one.
Give it faster travel time and 2-3 bounces, and it applies vulnerability or confusion.

Wow, just amazing jmatb. I won’t be surprised if next you say Necro have best downed skills and best underwater skills.

Necros have their spot in tpvp, so do engineers. So I don’t see the problem here. Mainly I see engi, ranger, thief, eles, guardian, necro teams. Not so much warriors or mesmers.

True jmatb, there are no insta ress abilities in game, there is no stability, etc. You just try really really hard to make it look like this: if enemy team has a necro, you can’t win, because he’s sitting at 1200 range soloing your team with burst condition damage, and he’s like untouchable, even if you manage to complete the jumping puzzle to get to the necro, then subject alpha fight starts.

Staff on any class is 1200 range weapon. Sceptre is 900. But no, you have this BRILLIANT idea to force the unmovable object (necromancer – aka lack of mobility) into 600 range for using it’s offensive and defensive abilities.

Guys chill, relax, and please don’t treat pvp like pve, nor pve like pvp (add WvW somewhere in there).

Yesterday I was reading about how tournament teams drop necros on enemy first fight with mass stealth because they have no escape, no immunities, no teleports etc, to win the first team fight which is more important than getting a node at start of the game, that PvE and WvW necros were slaughtered more or less by the changes, and that necros are unstoppable death aoe machines which you can’t fight (so scary that you simply freeze when they start dropping marks, and just wait for the no cooldown, no interrupts, no counters, spammable fear chain from the start of game till end).

People are annoyed that the new blind actually does something, and you can’t just attack thin air to get rid of it like before.

People are annoyed that weakness actually does something and is worth casting and can’t be simply ignored. (short addition here, necros can’t really spam AoE weakness, and are not only class with available AoE weakness, engineers and thieves can just as well put aoe weakness via poison field + blaster finishers).

People don’t like that conditions actually deal decent damage with short bursts, they want probably condition damage to be something that you can simply ignore while you strike back 3-4 figure numbers in the offender’s face.

Necros and engineers have access to most conditions (via different means) because they are the classes most suited at applying conditions (and in AoE) with the worst power build options.

To everyone complaining about Epidemic and arguing that marks (and other AoE condi appliers) should be single target. Show me a single class in the game that needs to slot an utility skill to gain AoE / Cleave damage. There’s none, and will never be. Epidemic is a choice, and that’s all there is.

Regarding pvp, and mainly spvp / tpvp. Stop presuming that the necro is invisible and can load everyone with conditions, set up fear chains and even bounce peeps into spectral wall for even more terror, without being dazed, blinded, stunned, KD / KB, trained and killed (most common scenario), that nobody runs condition removal (I know, i know is a tough choice, why get the condition removal when I can get this X skill to increase my burst or give me another stun breaker or more mobility w/e).

The thing about conditions is that they can’t be spammed (except for those applies via AA of MH weapon), and you need to THINK when to use your condition removal, same as you would think before using your stun if someone has stability, or your burst if someone is blocking, or shooting into someone’s reflect.

Most of the community is pigeon holed into the mentality of current pve meta, where you put full zerker on, stack 25 might, add fury, and mash 1-2-3-4-5 to kill something before you take the hit that kills you.

Spvp is a huge mess, and by no means the place to look at for considering balance changes to classes / game mechanics.

WvW again is not the place to look at.

So we’re left with Tpvp and PvE. Tpvp evolves and changes depending on team compositions and tactics used, while PvE has same old bosses and mechanics. So this is where it should be looked at – but only having good arguments to why and what should be changed, keeping in mind all aspects of the game (so that necro players don’t end up stopping playing GW2 for rest of the year because already nobody wants them in dungeons, in DE mobs die too fast to be able to contribute in a meaningful way with the tools the class has at disposal, etc).

Speaking of which, is it normal for KD / KB to cancel death shroud or is this a bug? It literally knocks me out of death shroud putting it on 10s cd. Which means any class with a KD / KB (including mesmer curtain pull) will cancel my DS wasting my whole class mechanic….

Phantom Mage from torch needs a damage buff, it’s the weakest (by far).

In spvp hotjoins, peeps don’t care rats about objectives or team support / utility skills. They just want to kill fast and if possible live to do it again. So that’s why you see an abundance of glass cannon specs abusing quickness, 8v8 is zerg, 10% of players in a hotjoin will ress you if you are downed in a team fight or assist you if you are trained etc, everyone for himself to get kills but they move together (herding sheeps). So what good is a balanced spec if you can’t 3-4 shot someone and stomp them before you die yourself?

They are only race in game which hints at same sex love stories, they don’t seem to have a definite sex disparity but they regard each other as living entities where physical aspect is just a form? (as in they love in the purest feeling sense of being attached / having feelings for something / someone and not based on physical aspects).

Awesome information and great reading here, any idea where I can find more about Caithe and her lost beloved? (as far as I understood she’s in love with another female sylvari who was corrupted by the nightmare). Am really entangled by sylvari race and their lore.

I play SB / Axe / Horn in pvp. I have no problems with guardians and reflection, I just stop attacking them with my bow and drop more traps on them (playing with 3 traps, ~1500 cond dmg), if they stay there reflecting, they die from traps dmg, if they move, they die all the same.

Heya, after playing other classes and finally getting to necromancer, trying all builds and stuff, there is a discrepancy in 2 major aspects regarding the necro class.

1st: mobility. They need a form to achieve swiftness outside of the warhorn (which doesn’t even work as good if you happen to hit destroyable objects or critters etc), maybe on weapon swap make a trait to give them 5s swiftness and put it with the staff since is most used weapon?
2nd: CC – horrible. No stuns, no immobilize. Blind is ok, but lack of daze on a 10s cd on scepter for example is bad. Add one of those CCs to scepter skill 3 (feast of corruption)
3rd: increase all fear skills duration to 2s, 1 second is really barely noticeable
3rd: in combat mobility or lack of. Give them an utility teleport skill, like a portal you can drop, lasts for 1 min, and using it teleports you back to where you cast it initially, 1200 range, 30-45s CD (cd starts after you teleport back). Usable when stunned / immobilized.

Damage…. is very bad. You can’t stack bleeds to a decent amount in pvp unless you are completely ignored which won’t happen, you need to use utility skills, drop wells, use DS, all which make your bleeds to drop which literally kill any damage pressure you could put out. Increase base damage for all necro weapons by 30-50%.

DS is okay if nobody is attacking you, otherwise is only good for a clutch fear, afterwards you drop out of it even if channeling skill 4 to gain lifeforce even with 1 single enemy beating on you (since we know necro is one of few classes who can only dodge twice with no vigor / endurance return traits / skills).

The concept of the class is very good and lovely, but the implementation is not even good.

For example events (renown hearts) where you need to break objects to meet the goal. Please by all means try do that with a staff or scepter and tell me if is any good since condition damage does nothing nor wells or other targetable necro abilities. Possible change: add the dot component dmg average into attack 1 damage when hitting objects (like gates, houses, provisions etc). Really is no fun clearing 4 mobs guarding such objective, then getting 3 respawns while I try to destroy said object.

Any channeled skill that delivers multiple hits to a standing still target, given that the user is specced and traited for power / crit, will deliver a huge amount of damage, reason is simple, each individual hit can crit, which adds a lot of damage, and it becomes a true burst skill if haste is used before starting the animation due to the speed at which the hits connect.

Mesmer blurred frenzy, Warrior 100B, Thief PW and Unload, Ranger Rapid Fire, all have same effect under haste.

And that’s the point of dodging, teleporting, immunity / dmg reduce CDs, blind, weakness etc. You can’t simply make a tanky character and expect to take 1k dmg from a character built to deal burst damage just because you overemphasis toughness. 1 mug crit and a backstab crit can do as much damage with a glass cannon build, one killshot or eviscerate etc.

Peeps need to realize that game requires you to pay attention to such skills and not just build tanky chars and expect to live through stuff.

I seen condition Ranger melting full tanky characters inside a stun and immobilize with haste and just firing autoattack from shortbow in the back arc of a character.

I would like you to take a look at some builds and consider some ways to make them enjoyable in DEs.

As it stands now, if you don’t have spammable good AoEs, your contribution is nill. For example if I chose to play as pistol / pistol with pistol / dagger I have no way to deal AoE damage (unless you count Dancing Dagger 4 target hit as AoE) which forces me to pick a short bow to be able to get loot in DEs.

That shouldn’t be forced onto players and each weapon set we choose because of the look & feel & play style should be fine for doing DEs, and still contribute as much as people who just spam AoEs. Doesn’t sound right when I say I’m a pistol thief but I use short bow 90% of time because otherwise am just filling space

With existing mechanic, I’d highly sugest replacing Body Shot with a 3 ini cost AoE to be on par with other weapon sets AoE possibilities

Thank you kindly!

Heya, I experienced this several times playing my thief. Infiltrator’s strike and Shadowstrike 2nd part of the spell (the one which returns you to cast position) often place my character under terrain (most notable on hills. I end up under the hill with no way to go out than using a waypoint).

Also happened in PvP in the map with water / sharks, using Shadow Strike (P/D set) when it ports you away, I ended up under the water (was on shore) I could swim but only in a limited space, got to surface, but was stuck couldn’t move back to land or into water.

Is not a high occurence, but at times when it happens is very annoying as you practically cannot continue whatever you were doing (imagine this happening in a tourney match…).

Thanks!