Guild Wars 2

One of the reasons thieves die fast or often in dungeons PUG, is because the party has no teamwork / strategy.

How many times did you corner pull into blind field trash mobs just to have a guardian or mesmer knock them back as soon as they enter in it xD Or you drop SR to ress someone and the person attacked by boss runs straight into it to cancel the ress and get everyone cleaved etc.

I have no problem surviving in full zerker as long as the group is competent. On top of that you can’t make a solid defensive build with high toughness and HP, and good damage (like a condi engineer or necro for example) on a thief.

Am not sure I understand this. You can land CnD reliable via our teleports (obviously if you won’t slot the utilities or use steal much or at all, then you can’t blame CnD mechanic), it’s your own job to monitor if you are blinded or will get blinded in vicinity of your target, if your target is blocking etc.

Is like if I’d ask to get stability when I pop black powder or shadow refuge because I “might” get knocked / pulled out of it.

For condi removal you have lysa runes, basilik venom to activate it, IS can be spammed even with no target in order to cleanse something fast (sword is already one of most used MH weapons in pvp), you also have a signet and shadowstep to cleanse conditions. Sorry no, thieves don’t have a wipe all conditions and / or become immune as a skill / trait / weapon set, and they don’t need one either.

Am running 10/30/0/0/30 but with S/P & SB and is really awesome. I think it will prove better than the S/D variant for tpvp in the times to come, since pretty much on S/D you just use first 3 skills, 4 and 5 are rarely if ever used, while S/P gives you the best ranged daze and black powder which help your team more (you can blast the BP for aoe stealth and still have SR). You bring better cleave damage with added single target stun and evasion, you still have your teleport for avoiding attacks, clearing condis and avoiding stuns & fear pathings etc.

That depends a lot on what weapon sets you’re running, we don’t know (we can presume but is not same) from your post that.

S/D, S/P build will usually have no need for SR as they base their survival on evade frames / mobility / control, where a P/D, D/D, D/P would spend way more time in stealth instead of being very mobile and evading all the time, so if they get hit, they will most likely need a backup heal (30s on HiS ain’t that good vs skilled opponents, compared to 15s on wihtdraw etc).

Regarding WvW and P/D rise. You need to keep in mind that most players in WvW are not very good at PvP outside of following a zerg and pveing champions & veteran npcs P/D offers very good mobility / evasion against melee classes, 95% of players in WvW have no clue how to deny CnD and usually spam evade even before you actually attack them (that if they notice you first) etc. I wouldn’t be surprised if someone made a video with P/P sitting in BPs and chain killing some peeps w/e.

Now that cof p1 farm is gone and peeps are doing more paths of more dungeons am sure a thief will get back into the game, and those who know how to play and adapt to encounters, switching weapons etc, communicating with their team and so on and so forth, will stand out and become wanted in groups.
Can’t speak for fractals high levels as I didn’t bother with them (is the only game where I had no aim for high end pve content and epic gear, am using strictly exotic gear as I don’t like the lack of customization on ascendant gear etc).

P/P needs a drastic change, either make it a condi weapon or a power one, the mix doesn’t really work good at all since your first 2 attacks apply conditions (3 with stealth attack), your DW skill is a power attack, and 4&5 are utilities. Preferable would be to make Unload into a good bleed & burning (or torment) applier, so pistol mainhand remains the single target condi weapon, and D/D aoe version of it.

Well any cleave melee will suffer from retal, that’s why condi damage is stronger in current meta, it doesn’t take much if any damage from retal (and necro neither from reflect), you keep the pressure (aoe as well).

On the other hand we have confusion which affects greatly classes that spam skills then swap different weapon set and continue spamming (like S/D thief, ele burst etc), and is more forgiving on classes that don’t spamm (given you can’t always cure it, and engineers especially can stack it quite high).

Also in current meta, is very important to have access to AoE poison & good cleave damage, to prevent chain reses xD

Personally I see PW as a good move for specific times, it gives an interrupt / stun, evasion, and cleave damage. Is not my go to move, I still use AA on S/P a lot and IS obviously, BP has quite good uses on nod fights or to get a longer stealth without blowing SR, the interrupt from headshot is fastest in game if am not mistaken – and ranged at that as well.

Even jumper-x admitted for his team needs he had to forego S/Dx2 and get SB in, which did cut a good part of his 1v1 capability but gave him better mobility / aoe (and the poison field obv).

Personally am quite happy that we have 3 weapon based builds that work in tpvp (D/P, S/D and S/P all with SB) instead of having a single build that outclasses rest by far and you’re gimping yourself and your team for not being fotm.
It’s a give + take relation between those sets, you give up something to gain something else which better fits your team / playstle etc

^ Agreed.

Against high evade uptimes – like S/D, they don’t have perma evasion frames, you can time a basilik+steal with PW, or take the easy path and just kill them with SB which outclasses S/D easy.

Regarding retaliation – this is only a problem in WvW zergs, 1v1 vs a guardian for example you really shouldn’t have a problem. Personally I hate zergs and avoid them, 5 man roaming or solo, capping stuff / killing supplies etc. I’d much rather run on my necro or mesmer or even staff ele if I would have to do zergs

I don’t think comparing the cast time on skills should be the factor in deciding which set has the upper hand.

You can precast PW and connect using various teleports. You don’t have to stand in S/P all fight (in fact you should spend majority of time in SB).

There is no such thing as playing X set vs Y set you have no chance by default. It all comes to player skill, awareness, reaction time, positioning, anticipation. So what if a D/P can perma stealth? I can get max stealth duration as well (BP+cluster spam) then go my way if all they want to do is sit in stealth, land a backstab and go stealth again. The thief is unmatched in mobility / roaming, you can chose when to engage, when to disengage, etc.

You pretty much play it similar to S/D+SB except that you don’t spend most time on one set, or in middle of action.

Pavel can you please elaborate regarding S/D superiority over S/P for WvW? Landing the PW is not a problem given you’re not spending 100% of time in S/P trying to PW spam peeps to death, you have same mobility / defense minus the evade on FS or boon steal, gaining a stun and more aoe damage (with evasion).

Am playing S/P & SB, 10/30/0/0/30 and can’t say I run into situations where S/D would have turned the tide for the FS/LS chain.

Your success in pvp combat will have nothing to do with what race you pick, or what colors you dye your armor with. Is all about what spec you run, how good you are with it, how good is your awareness, reaction, positioning, prediction etc.

You can play an engineer casually, same as you can play any class. But you won’t have same success (soloing champions, group events, large groups of mobs etc) as someone who’s using all their tools obviously.

Sure you can 3-4 shot any mob with rifle autoattack if you build for it so by no means engineers lack damage when built (gear + traits) for it.

The damage by itself (done by a single player) is not too high IMHO. The reason peeps die so fast is because of:

A) pain train
B) cleave damage

The pain train burst – usually done spamming blast finishers in a fire field then stealthing and all opening on target of choice (usually necromancers tehehe) is made specially to give as close to zero chances of survival to said target (preferred targets with no immunities / blocks etc).

The cleave damage well… presuming 4 players fight on a node, and 3 enemy players attempt to ress their 4th and get cleaved by the other 4: if each attacker would deal only 1k damage with his cleave attack, every second you would take 4k damage – add damage from conditions – and you would look at minimum 5k damage / second, meaning in 3 seconds only – you are either dead or almost dead (15k dmg aoe).

Ideally peeps would spread out, use LOS to avoid (some) damage, etc. But the nature of current conquest forces you to stay on the point to keep it neutral (or defend it from decap), and since most cleave / AoE attacks have quite some radius, you will get hit and take damage that wasn’t directly aimed at you personally – and it adds up fast.

Mord the things are pretty simple.

Engineer has the most options (via kits) and largest array of abilities (conditions / boons included) in game. But they require you to have a very good memory for each kit / toolbelt slot so you can piano literally through weapon set / kits / utilities / toolbelt skills.

It has the highest APM of any class in GW2. You won’t spend more than a few seconds in a given kit / weapon set, and constantly switching depending on your needs.

Regarding WvW – you have all the tools (depending on build) you need to deal with anything, your success or failure lays strictly on your player skill vs enemy skill.

Pretty much the only limit is your imagination and ingenuity in utilizing your skills in combat, with good options both at range and in melee (depending on kits of course).

As long as the game is conquest only for tpvp, there is no way for a player to get a measure of his improvement / performance, since everything is tied to team communication, decision making, target calling, support and positioning.

It is also very difficult with the current UI to see the boons / condi on players you have not targeted – which cuts from awareness – so many times things are miss or hit.

SYNC taking it home and going to face TC @PAX!

Davinci once again brings proof that guardians are OP even when their mouse batteries stop working! xD

WvW – meaning as running with 50-100 peeps fighting another zerg?

That’s same as DE zergs. You can be naked, sit in the back and use a ranged cleave weapon to tag stuff, or you can deck out in purples and be frontliner IT WON’T MAKE any difference to the outcome (both for DE and WvW zerg fights).

Now go solo a champion event, or 5 man it, same for WvW (roaming / harassing / capping / decapping etc). Now it really matters what you run and how you mix with your team and support eachother.

It can’t work that way. Only the last created combo field will apply to projectiles, leaps, whirls, blasts etc.

Because there are several fields that can be up at same time for peeps to whirl / leap / shoot / blast etc and would create an immense mess (ie: you drop a fire field on node fight, thief drops smoke field, and mesmer ethereal and you want to get a buff from this, but your ranger gets trained hard and needs to use his healing spring etc).

I don’t agree with this the utility is fine as it is – remember we want most of the kits / elixirs / skills to have an use depending on your build, not to have MUST HAVE ones which you are forced to take etc.

Dodge on side mouse button 5 (can still dodge in any direction by straffing with A/D), auto run on mouse button 4.

Default settings for weapon skills / belt skills / utilities and elite. Might consider setting bomb kit and toolkit on mwheelup / mwheeldown on mouse and rocket boots (or 3rd kit depending what I play) on mwheel pressed down.

Make a P/S engineer. Rejoice beating any non S/D thief \o/

Blind is perfectly fine as it is. If thieves were so OP “spamming” blinds non stop while carving you a new one, why don’t we see teams with more than 1 thief completely dominating all the middle fights?

That is not really true. You are saying it as any class other than necromancers, the moment they get in a fight with a necromancer, have absolutely 0 chances of wining.

You can never please the masses (or the trolls trying to stir things up). Even if all attacks did 1 dmg and nobody had blocks dodges etc, someone would still complain that his 1 dmg is not same as X class 1 dmg.

Imagine if the new map would get into competitive play, how the meta would insanely change. No power builds, no bunker builds, no condi builds. Who has more pulls / stability / knockbacks. Then peeps will start QQing that X class has a shorter CD on their pull / knockback, or Y class has TOO MANY knockbacks etc.

I can understand mesmers complaining to some degree with the current meta, but eles? Almost every single team that played in EU qualifiers had an ele and they did a great job. How can you even say they are unplayable or in worst spot ever? If that was the case nobody would have run one in their team don’t you think?

Pretty much every single class is forced to embrace a single spec / build as the meta changes if they want to play at highest level of competition, that goes for everything (look at thieves forced into S/D, ele in S/D, engineer P/S, necro conditions and so on and so forth).

Just complaining to complain without any solid proof that indeed your class is in a terrible spot (as you make it seem) doesn’t really do you any justice, just saying.

I think you misinterpreted some things. While the base bonuses to stats from dropping points into a tree is a nice bonus, is not the main reason peeps pick trees to put points into, but the minor & major traits. What you build like is pretty much dictated by your gear setup (tpvp / spvp amulet playing the major role again).

You don’t have to drop a single point in the toughness tree to play a bunker.

Regarding the bleed number of stacks etc. Geeez, you can’t possibly expect to put and keep more than 10 stacks of bleed in an average to high level gameplay field. Is just not realistic unless your opponent(s) are completely ignoring you and don’t use any cleanse / blocks / reflects, don’t dodge etc.

The real damaging dot is the burning, followed by 6+ stacks of bleeding and poison. Chilling / weakness / blind / cripple (so they can’t use skills as often, can’t move in time out of AoEs when they can’t dodge or their block ends, their damage is diminished etc) are further hindering enemies. Then add confusion for engineers. Even 5 stacks is a lot if the targets are forced to dodge / use skills etc. We’re not talking pve where you can stay behind someone and AA them to death (in rangers case), or land the telegraphed warrior LB moves unhindered etc.

I’m running Koroshi build with 2 kits and Rocket boots.

While the advice you gave him regarding engi vs p/d thief holds water, as I said in my initial post, each engineer plays in a unique way, there is nothing set in stone or predetermined.

Given the 1v1 scenario in WvW, either player can freely disengage if so they chose to do (proximity to zergs, duration of the possible engagement – 2 condi classes that also have good sustain and condi clear, as well as stealth and good movement). Thief is predictable no matter what weapon setup they run (once you saw what they use, you know all moves they do and in what order, there’s no ingenious way to do d/p or p/d or s/d, the weapon sets pretty much dictate everything for the thief). It’s obvious that if a p/d goes stealth he will shortly follow up with the mini-unload to stack bleeds, if he comes in melee range he wants to get a CnD or torment etc.

Regarding to dodging poison darts and static shot – open for pull into pry bar, plus personally I run superior sigil of Doom on pistol, so my poison is not tied only to poison darts skill, nor is telegraphed. Then we talk about elites, you run thieves guild or Dagger Storm, I run Elixir X for WvW, because they allow me to keep on moving and counter other classes elites (both tornado and rampage).

And in the end, is all about a bit of RNG and player skill (anticipation / preparation / reaction / awareness), popping reflect just as your stealth ends and you unload all the bleeds on yourself, dropping smoke bomb when you come to CnD or shadowstrike then stealthing from it into a pull + pry bar confussion etc.

Conclusion: if a fight lasts longer than you planned for it, disengage. You can’t win them all, there is no 100% guide / masterplan to beat X or Y class in 1v1 WvW.

Short answer: you can’t.

The engineer class is the most complex one, since it has access to so many abilities via kits, and there is no rotation to go through, the way he chooses to use skills, switch between kits, and his approach to a given pvp scenario are unique to each engineer (worth their salt).

You can’t tell what combos he’ll pull off, or when, if he plays aggressive or defensive, etc.

Also you have no idea what kits he has equipped – which literally means you have no clue apart from his weapon set, what he’s running, what abilities he has access to, and how he can combo with them.

Regarding shield / gear block and reflect… You don’t use them when someone auto attacks you, you use them at specific moments in the fight that either help you avoid big damage / condi appliers, or to create offensive (knockdown, daze, closing distance to target etc) play. GW2 is not a game about not being hit at all (which is impossible, yes even for a S/D thief or D/P thief etc). The game is about knowing what hits (skills / abilities) you can afford to get hit with, and which ones you need to avoid / block / reflect etc.

While knocking a thief out of refuge with magnetic inversion is nice, keep in mind you can also go stealth for just as long as he does (since if they use refuge and you are not in a position to knock him out within 1-2 seconds, you can just as well bomb it to get your own stealth which will also last longer than his giving you the surprise element).

The fight is far from each character standing still and spamming 1 to stack bleeds on other one (like an old west duel lol).

Fenrir dear, did you read what you said in first sentence?

“Condition damage needs a stat/boon that reduces their incoming damage, but it shouldnt be accesed by bunkers”.

Am sorry, what in your eyes defines a bunker? Is it a specific trait line / skills combination, OR the gear choices? So if someone is wearing rabid set for example, they should not have access to said stat / boon?

Do you realize what are you asking in regards to game mechanics?

2nd. Forums are free. Posts / threads are free. If you make a thread, that does not mean YOU OWN IT and dictate that only peeps who agree with your idea can post in it.

3rd. When someone has an idea and brings it to public attention, he must be prepared to equally receive pro and con opinions. If you can’t have a mature, non biased discussion with someone sharing a different or opposed opinion to yours, then don’t post at all There is no such thing as your idea / opinion is THE RIGHT ONE from start – only because you think it is – and automatically deny any different inputs on the matter.

Just because the lot of you can’t adapt their builds / gear to the game mechanics doesn’t mean the game is bad. There are things that are meant to hit you no matter how “skilled” you are. Hence why in normal circumstances you have cooldowns on blocks, stability, healing skill, and your energy for dodging is a limited slow regen resource, which makes you – that’s right – susceptible to taking damage, be it single target, AoE, direct damage or condition damage. The sooner you learn that this is how the game is designed to work, the better will be for the community

I enjoy jportell crusade against condition damage, he keeps following HIS dream of 1v1 unkillable bunker spec which will lead to AMAZING game play when you put 2 bunkers on 2 points, and harass enemy with 3 peeps (or keep them roaming between those points to reinforce whichever point they attack since they need at least 3 peeps to have any chance of killing said bunker, so they can’t split effectively to attack 2 positions etc).

Now back on the matter at hand, IT DOES NOT SAY ANYWHERE THAT MAKING A BUNKER CLASS, YOU ARE GRANTED INVULNERABILITY IN 1V1 SITUATIONS. That my dear jportell is the rode of your own imagination. Which is perfectly fine. We can dream to be what we want to be. That doesn’t make our vision THE ONLY VISION, nor the RIGHT VISION, which we try to impart to rest of players using more or less democratic ways

So is one thing that you – personally – don’t enjoy / like / approve of something, but making it a general thing, or even claiming that’s how the game it’s meant to be played – because, again, you, personally enjoy your own vision of playing the game in said manner, is not ok.

Completely agree with Mammoth. The sole purpose of switching to staff, is to use marks, there’s nothing else to it.

Since Dhuumfire nobody takes greater marks, you can block or dodge (or both).

I am not sure I agree with the concept of heavy armor class for engineer. It is an adventurer profession (like thief as well), and this alone dictates a medium armor set for it.

Am not going to debate your other points, but from a role play PoV, medium armor (leather in particular) fits the engineer theme best.

The most enjoyable role for engineer (as you could see from EU qualifiers for PaX) are those of roamer / defender / point (de)cap.

Instead of trying to do what a necro can (and he does it way better as he got the tools needed for the job), you should play to the strengths of engineer – perma vigor + swiftness, 2 blocks and 1 reflect, several knock backs, confussion, high condi dmg, both ranged and melee options, best sustain in game (healing turret + combos depending on situation) etc. It’s also what makes (for me) the engineer most enjoyable class in tpvp.

You are correct, my bad (you can still get some might and stealth tho, but duration on stealth will be lowered obviously!).

My variant:

BoB+Smoke bomb+Turret drop and blow+Shield4+Rocket Boots (as I always run with rocket boots in WvW)

What you achieve is same duration stealth + the jump from rocket boots.

Also worth to mention you can start with fire bomb to get some might stacks out of the stealth as well (if your ping is good, otherwise stick with 1 combo).

We need a melee or ranged cleave weapon that scales with power / crit / cdamage.
Something you would play with toolkit / bombkit / whatever you fancy.

0/30/20/0/20 is what I run.

There is a lot more DD than Condi damage going out at all times (all condi appliance skills also have a DD component). While not all of the DD is burst, it’s still a large chunk of damage over time (cleave damage). Being able to passively reduce it via toughness (and pop DS / protection for the burst windows) your EHP and time spent being active are increased a lot compared to a pure vit build. Especially for necro where your means of avoiding damage are very limited, and you will most likely save the dodges for burst / CC (that will lead up to burst etc). We can’t ping pong evade frames like a S/D thief dancing through aoes / cleave dmg.

I think this got to the point where some players want to have their pie and eat it too – to the point where they can’t build a class that can be invincible or 2 shot players without any risk.

As game evolves and patches pour in nerfing / buffing / balancing abilities / skills / traits etc, we will see different classes performing different roles within their parameters.

It’s a MMO. Everything changes at a point. We can’t talk about a rise of condition builds, when in all games in tournament there were 2 maximum condi builds, with 1 or 2 bunkers and a high mobility / evasion class with power dmg.

Engineers are highly mobile and have good single target pressure via conditions and control (pulls, knock backs) and decent defenses.

Necros are immobile, great condition manipulators, point pressure, with limited control (1 aoe fear, 1 single target fear) that apply constant pressure (when left alone) and help their team by cleansing / transfering conditions and applying debuffs to reduce incoming damage (blindness / chill / weakness / cripple).

Did you see what happened every time necro gets targeted? A) they flop over they use spectral armor, enter DS, pop Plague elite, then flop over (while doing this they lose all their condition transfer / cleanse abilities to help the team).
Did you see what happened to tinker teldo when he got stealth zerged? He imploded.

Which will be ugly. Because it will force you in a tree that gives you nothing else useful to your build. Seriously if they add a sword MH that acts as a power weapon with cleave damage, would anyone even consider using axe or dagger MH? Am 100% certain the answer is no. So how do you add a new weapon melee that needs to be only an alternative, without offering something which severely lacks from Axe & dagger?

I just can’t play a necro with dhuumfire in 30 spite. You give up too much to get too little (with very poor minor / major traits on the way there).

Running 0/30/20/0/20 myself with staff cd % and greater marks (this is huge for me to be able to land a specific effect on someone even if they are blocking), as well with 20% red cd on spectral skills and LF on marks trigger.

Regarding carrion vs rabid, toughness is great. Conditions are not what you should fear, is something that everyone gets hit by in current meta, what is important is to know when or what to cure / transfer and don’t try to stress yourself to be “clean” as fast or as much as possible.

If you have good toughness and add protection on top of it – while having weakness on whatever is attacking you, you pretty much can say you nullified the burst you couldn’t dodge / DS (as was shown in the tourney as well with necro living the stealth burst gank in middle by predicting the opener and using abilities in right order).

Regarding burning – while the damage is nice for sure, it only takes ~6 stacks of bleed to equal the damage from burning with same condi power. Am sure most of you can self sustain 10+ stacks easily in pvp. (and even aoe).

So I prefer to run on the safer side with less potential single target damage, but larger and unblockable marks, good LF generation, decent LF pool, accessible protection x 2 (spectral armor + spectral wall), leaving me with one utility slot for whatever I desire or see fit in a particular situation.

Look at engineers, they have good condi damage, but it’s single target pretty much (haven’t saw a single engi running grenades in tournament tbh), they run toughness as well, have better mobility, but their bombs unlike our marks need time to apply their effect and the enemy can simply choose not to come nearby (or use a block / stablity etc). Also most of their attacks can be reflected.

I have no idea how this will work. First, for every new weapon type, they will need to add traits that make it more effective – like for the weapons we already have. Second, the new weapon sets / combinations need to make sense for both power and condi builds. I really hope they won’t add stability / block / evasion / teleport or other crap to the new weapons because that will just break everything about the necro pretty much.

Am positive it doesn’t trigger unless an enemy sets it off.

Seriously stop QQing about condition “BURST” damage. There is no such thing. There is no stat / ability / trait / runes / elite / food buff that affects the TICK frequency of damaging conditions. It’s fixed. Conditions don’t crit either. The damage is stable (excluding the insignificant direct damage from the player skills that apply conditions) as long as they can mantain the stacks of bleed / burning / poison which are dealing the damage.

IE: you have 10 stacks of bleeding on you that each deal 100 dmg, it means every second you lose 1k hp. There is nothing (except stacking more bleeds or adding poison / burning) that will change that. You constantly lose 1k hp / second unless you remove it, or it wears off if is not refreshed. For an average 15k hp, that means from the moment you’re loaded with 10 stacks of bleed and they are refreshed, you have 15 seconds until you die from natural causes.

How on earth is that burst? There are several classes who can do 15k dmg in a window of 3 seconds (less for s/d ele LOL). They can also usually stun / knock back / knock down you before actually bursting.

So sorry if conditions deal respectable damage, and it doesn’t take a stack of 10 bleeds 1 minute to kill you.

Stop comparing WoW to GW2. Non healing classes had no 15-30s heals or dispells (and still don’t have). DoT classes had access to 8s (4s latest expansion) of CC on the dot-ed targets (so their dots actually did damage and buy them time).

Most damaging condition in game is burning, period. Several classes have access to it, via weapon sets or traits. Bleeding needs to stack to achieve respectable damage, and unless you do PvE rotation on a dummy you will never get more than ~10 stacks on a target at any time (as you also have to use other abilities that don’t apply bleeding, move, dodge, get CCed etc).

It’s only natural for a class that specializes in condi damage, to have access to aoe appliance of those, since the game meta is AoE focused (every single class has at least 1 weapon set for AoE dmg, be it power or condi based).

There is no overabundance to conditions either. All classes have access – even as power builds, to at least some conditions (chill, cripple, poison, bleeding, burning, blind, weakness etc). But classes that are by design made to be very good at applying said conditions, have multiple ways of doing so (engineers and necros obviously). Also said classes have no option with different weapon sets to get AoE cleave with a power build, which is why the game is balanced.

If you can’t adapt to ever evolving meta is nobody’s fault but yours.

So an engineer is complaining about auto attacks applying conditions? REALLY?

Oh wait, you’re complaining about a necro AA applying conditions, your AA doing same is completely fine. Biased much? Dude seriously…. You have access to ALL conditions as an engineer, and AoE versions of them (utility kits + main weapon set + traits). You have the easiest access to most reliable and longest burns in game. A heal that cures condition (turret), stealth, can self stack might, several blocks / pull / KD / KB / confussion / snare / chill etc.

Engi condi burst is easier and more deadly than what a necro can do.

I would like to see the QQers about the evolving metas, give their input on what their ideal meta would look like, because you obviously are just trolling for the sake of trolling.

As far as I can see – and anyone who bothered to watch the tournament qualifiers, the current META includes EVERYTHING. Burst, Sustained, High mobility, Conditions, Bunkers.

We had ele burst, ele bunker, guardian bunkers, ranger bunker (dem spirits), thieves high mobility / sustain / survival, necros condi, engi high mobility, conditions, control.

Mesmers are still wanted for most fractal / cof p1, so they are not in a bad spot

jportell.2197:

Anelyn.4593:

Geeez this is mind blowing. So having a guard and ele on your team to take care of the conditions is not enough, you want every single member of the team to be able to ignore conditions – as in, your team to become immune to conditions. So we get back to the meta where there are no condi builds, everything is bunker / burst.

How about a mixed meta, like the current one, where both DD and DoTs are viable and work great together? Did you watch the tourney qualifiers? Did you see that neither team had any problems in training the necros and killing them (even with full LF bar, using plague elite then DS).

Also stealth ganks are based on DD not DoTs, it was showcased several times in tourney with 1 shots even on guardians.

CC tried to run 2 necros in one game vs TP, and guess what – IT DIDN’T WORK OUT FOR THEM. So stacking necros is obviously not working / not OP.

Don’t get fooled that peeps who died from conditions ONLY took condition damage from necro alone. Watch the vods again if you somehow are deluded to believe that.

Which class pulled off a 2v1 and turned an important game for TP? An engineer that’s right. I don’t recall seeing any necro in the tourney coming even close to that.

i want everything to have a decent counter. Right now condition damage has a terrible counter and it isn’t working. Ease of application vs. Way’s they are removed are terribly and I mean terribly imbalanced. Especially when the ones most guilty of application are the ones that are the best for removing them.

Same can be said about thieves. The way their direct damage is applied and how hard is to avoid their damage, especially when the ones most guilty of application are the ones best at evading them. Looks familiar no?

Spvp will never be balanced because you have no control of what classes join a match, nor how skilled / teamplay involved the people playing them are.

Back to Tpvp – which should be the main point of balancing for pvp, every team I saw runs all 3 types of classes in their comp: condi, burst, bunker, with the addition of a high mobile class as well – engineer.

Guardian – check. Thief – check. Necro – check. Ranger / Ele – check. Engineer – check. Except mesmers, all classes have a spot in the current meta. Ele or Ranger is a preference of the said team (some may opt to run both at expense of engineer or necro).

If condition damage was so insane, the condi burst so great and unavoidable, am sure necro / engi stacking would have made an appearance in the tournament and probably even win it.

So your arguments that condi damage is too good / strong, are not holding water. GW2 is not a dueling 1v1 game. Nobody gives a kitten how strong or weak you are in 1v1 vs a specific class / build. All it matters is if you are a good addition to a team to justify a spot.

Pve and WvW are a whole different beast altogether.

ArmageddonAsh.6430:

Shock, typical blame it on L2P. Ignore the fact we are pretty much sitting ducks for ANY class that involves condition damage. We are targeted first for a reason – we are an easy kill for Condition builds.

Wrong. Necro DOES have Stability so as you were saying “Learn to Play” 2 of the Elites ahve 20seconds of Stability, they can trait for more Stability with DS as well

Then how comes both S/D ele and S/D thief can shut down / burst a mesmer if you are weak to conditions only? Sorry but all vods from tourney shown that s/d ele and thieves can solo mesmers without any assistance from their team, so I really don’t think the problem is with a necro on other team.

Geeez this is mind blowing. So having a guard and ele on your team to take care of the conditions is not enough, you want every single member of the team to be able to ignore conditions – as in, your team to become immune to conditions. So we get back to the meta where there are no condi builds, everything is bunker / burst.

How about a mixed meta, like the current one, where both DD and DoTs are viable and work great together? Did you watch the tourney qualifiers? Did you see that neither team had any problems in training the necros and killing them (even with full LF bar, using plague elite then DS).

Also stealth ganks are based on DD not DoTs, it was showcased several times in tourney with 1 shots even on guardians.

CC tried to run 2 necros in one game vs TP, and guess what – IT DIDN’T WORK OUT FOR THEM. So stacking necros is obviously not working / not OP.

Don’t get fooled that peeps who died from conditions ONLY took condition damage from necro alone. Watch the vods again if you somehow are deluded to believe that.

Which class pulled off a 2v1 and turned an important game for TP? An engineer that’s right. I don’t recall seeing any necro in the tourney coming even close to that.

Seezungenschleuder.8319:

If Dhuumfire gets removed, you would still be dependent of 30 Spite, because there are no other valid options.

As someone said in the necro forum, Death Magic is only interesting if you go for minions, while Blood Magic is only interesting if you go for wells or minions also.

How so? I enjoy 0/30/20/0/20 build, S/D with staff, cooldown red on staff + greater unblockable marks, 20% red on spectral skills + 3% LF on marks triggering.

Why on earth would I go 30 on spite (with or w/o dhuumfire) for 30% cond duration and crap minor / major traits?

They play mesmers and thieves, because they actually believe there is skill involved when battling eachother, considering both have good burst, stealth access, insane mobility and CC avoidance (thief dodges / teleports, mesmer distortion / teleport, both have stealth).