It’s that way for every immunity from Endure Pain to Signet of Stone. Though, Eles arguably have it slightly worse because Mist Form lasts all of what, 3 seconds? While Signet of Stone, Endure Pain, and Protect Me! all last 6, and they still can use every single ability while it’s up.
In any case, I agree it should stop all damage, but as long as no specific immunity gets it over the others, we can agree that’s in balance from that standpoint. The Mist Form no skills available thing, and the shorter duration are other problems entirely.
Even if the actual Evasive Arcana effect is on CD, you do get both blast finishers. So you can dodge twice immediately in Water attunement, get the heal, and both give a blast finisher.
I honestly don’t know much about PvE, but in terms of PvP Power/Healing Power/Toughness are what you would likely want to shoot for. We have such a low HP pool that stacking vit doesn’t really get us anywhere, and toughness makes healing power scale better. Combined with our healing skills on every set, it’s the obvious choice for survivability. Just makes playing the class more active. Low HP can effectively be dealt with by condition damage, but taking the 30 in Water for 2 condition removals when you swap to Water + Cleansing Fire tends to take care of that.
Necro downed state? Seriously? Fear is the ONLY good part of it.
If you have Lightning Flash up and need a faster stomp on a Thief, turn your camera to the direction they’re facing. Start the stomp, when they blink, blink back on top of them. Requires some speed, but can be done. Thieves also have an easy time with targeted shadowsteps (steal, I-Strike), and I think the same can be said for Guardians teleport Meditation. Mesmers can also use the blink trick like Eles can.
D/D Ele is by far the most fun I’ve had on this game yet. Haette, you may have just ruined the class for me. If I start seeing myself as a Power Ranger, I’m coming for you! >:(
@Bond
With D/D, use Shocking Aura to buy time. When you round a corner, pop Updraft as they come around. Use RTL on CD, and keep them chilled with your Water spells. I have no problems running away 2v1. If it’s 3+, sure, I’ll get chain CC’d but that happens to pretty much everyone. Can’t speak for staff as I only use for tank/heal builds.
I’ve never been effectively kited by Ranger or Thief when I’m D/D. Ever. RTL in, either Updraft or pop Shocking Aura. Either one buys you plenty of time for a combo. Before the CC is about to wear off, Mag Grasp > EQ, combo again. Ranger’s only good kiting comes in when they pop RaO. At that point, just go LOS them until it drops, or continue sticking to them with RTL, Mag Grasp, and Lightning Flash. No good reason a D/D Thief should be kited into oblivion.
Yes, blind sucks vs. fast attackers. But Shocking Aura doesn’t. Neither does Static Field.
As for PvE, I’m only level 11, but I’ve been farming the veteran ettin near Phinney waypoint since level 8 or 9, taking on the entire group of normal Ettins with it. Sometimes 6 or more. Yeah, we have to move a lot, but that’s the fun of the class. Very active. If you want an easy facetanking class, go play a Guardian or something. Unless you’re speccing for it, you shouldn’t be able to facetank easily on an Ele. But like I said, I’m level 11. Things will likely change drastically for sure, but I spend most of my time in PvP, so it’ll be a while before I get there.
I agree Thieves are “anti-fun” to play against, but they are pretty easy to beat. Unless, of course, you’re also running a glass cannon that isn’t a Thief. I only have 14k HP and 2500 armor on my Ele, and sure if I don’t see it coming backstab will gib me, but I find Thieves easy to beat.
It’s less about HP than it is armor, and what u-skills/weapon sets they bring. HP is class dependent, so a Warrior bunker will likely have a ton of HP and armor, but they lack all of the healing skills and such that a Guardian bunker brings. Likewise, a glass cannon Warrior will still have more HP than a glass cannon Thief.
Glass cannons run with base, or close to it, toughness, and tend to have low armor/HP compared to the typical for their class. Ramager’s/Zerks ammy with Ogre runes are common. They also use high-damage weapon sets (like GS Warrior) with more CC/damage oriented u-skills (Frenzy). Bunkers tend to use a higher defense or control weapon set, with more mitigation, CC removals, immunities, etc. Bunkers tend to shoot for 3k armor, glass cannons tend to shoot for 3k+ attack and high crit.
Would Elementalists be able to use greatswords in the future?
in Elementalist
Posted by: Animosity.5231
The fist weapon thing would be cool with a martial arts style skillset. It does remind me of Avatar-style bending. I’ve always liked the idea of a martial-style caster. The whole stand back and nuke thing is played out, and never appealed to me anyway. Just my tastes, though.
If they fixed conjures and made them usable with other attunments, that’d be a huge step in the right direction, and open up a lot more options for us. Or just making them work, at least.
I started with Ranger, and Thief. Dabbled in Mesmer, Guardian, and Warrior before rolling my Ele about 2 weeks after release or so. Never looked back.
The playstyle is amazing. Lots of versatility, lots of team support, and AoE damage. We can 1v1 and win just about any encounter, or stalemate it at least. I do feel like my skill level plays a role in my effectiveness. I feel rewarded for having a high APM, knowing how to attunement dance, and utilize my CC and combo effectively. On my Thief, it was basically spam 2, or 3 if I ran conditions, and dodge around. Pop stealth if things got hairy. Not really a multi-dimensional, versatile class. But yeah, I could kill people effectively – that’s all I could do.
Current meta is more about bunkering than anything. I can play an Ele bunker pretty well, and there are very few 1v2 comps I’ll die against, but it still takes them a long time. Of course, we have limited stability and knockback options, so point control isn’t much compared to Guardian or Engineer, but I can stay on it for long periods.
We suck against bunkers. Any good bunker player won’t even be scratched in a 1v1. He won’t kill me either, but he’ll never die to me. I bring backup, maybe ANet sees bunkering as being too strong and will nerf it, or perhaps they’ll buff our damage. But for now, bring backup since you won’t be killing them. And unless you’re a bunker on your team, you’ll have problems vs triple or quad bunker teams.
More balanced teams, though, we can be extremely potent. Any teamfight we can lay on AoE might, regen, condition removal, heals depending on your weapon, and AoE damage which makes a significant impact. Eles make great roamers in this regard, and for backcapping.
And no, please don’t give us weapon swap. That’ll be the excuse to nerf every skill’s individual damage again because we’d have to many damaging abilities to lay down. Never mind the support potential. That’s 4 conditions removed, perma regen, and if you run staff/scepter/dagger? Water Trident, Geyser, Healing Rain. Blatantly OP. Stop asking for weapon swap. Out of combat only for quality of life.
Don’t take 8v8 seriously. The win bonus is 20~ points, so no one bothers trying to win. It’s better to zerg around to maximize glory.
Try 5v5, you might have a little better luck, but those times you get 4v5, or someone on your team gets the eternal loading screen, or you go against a good pre-made can be really aggravating. I suggest spending a little time in the Mists putting together a team and getting in on a Mumble or Vent server.
The D/D Auramancer build is good. Swap out Armor of Earth for Cleansing Fire, and use a Valk’s amulet. Better DPS output, and your best bet for survivability are healing/toughness. Even in 8v8 I don’t die often. If you want stability, take Tornado, cast it and cancel it immediately. 24 seconds is more than enough time to burn down 1 or 2 people on a node if they aren’t straight bunkers.
Just tested it in the Mists, works for me.
I, too, am an Ele trying to spread the word of our excellence. Honestly, I run less than 15k HP, 2500 armor, and I don’t die in seconds unless I’m zerged.
Plus 3 stunbreaking Cantrips?
Depends on what I’m up against. Generally, though, 8v8 I run Signet of Earth or Arcane Wave, 5v5 I run Mist Form for stomps.
Seriously pls guys….I don’t get it at all…I’m playing a freaking ele( the profession with the most whine threads) and I don’t see any of the problems you mention, it’s really a matter of l2p man, during every fight I’m well prepared to be CCed at least 4-5 times in row, jeez during tournaments I prepare myself to be the target n1 and still do great
I, too, am an Ele trying to spread the word of our excellence. Honestly, I run less than 15k HP, 2500 armor, and I don’t die in seconds unless I’m zerged. Even then, I can usually last 5, sometimes more if I’m really on my game and get lucky. Thieves and Warriors aren’t even a problem anymore.
I do agree that bunkers are silly.
Play all of them, find their strengths/weaknesses, then play the class you enjoy. You’ll nearly always perform better on a character you enjoy playing compared to one you don’t.
Currently, though Mesmers are probably top of the dog pile. Thieves are great pubstompers, but some teams are dropping them in favor of other classes in 5v5.
I’m working on a video showcasing some 8v8 and 5v5 as an Ele. Both D/D and bunker. On top of this I’m also taking screenshots of every compliment or build request I get, since I get up to 3 per day. Today a Thief of all people told me what I was doing was “bad kitten”. Maybe seeing some stuff in action will start changing some minds. I really think a lot of Ele UP comments come from build issues primarily. I like our active defense/offense style. You’re never sitting idle, and always have something to do. Dumbing this down would be a travesty. Not that anyone is suggesting that, but those complaining about the amount of effort we require need to step back and think not only about the bigger picture (perma boons, AoE condition removal/regen/protection/swiftness, lots of AoE damage, etc.) but also need to consider how that would be fixed – by dumbing the class down.
I make a significant impact in any game I’m in, assuming I’m playing well. Ele isn’t fine, it needs bug fixed above all else, then animation tweaks, and a fixed down state, and maybe, just maybe a slight increase to damage. But I’d hit the first three before considering the last.
Last time I died to a Warrior was on my Ranger. Nah, just kidding. The only time a Warrior kills me, though, is if everything is on CD. Air Attunement (Shocking Aura), or my two stun breaks. Warriors are stupidly easy to counter. Dodge Bull’s, if it hits, Lightning Flash, wait for immobilize, Cleansing Fire. You now have 30 seconds to kill the glass cannon Warrior. You only need 10 of those because they are probably glass cannon. The hardest Warrior to deal with is Hammer + Axe/Mace. So much CC, and they crit Evis for 5k anyway.
Voltic: I use D/D. Water 5, 2, and Glyph of Elemental Harmony with a Valk’s amulet gives me plenty of healing.
Each class should have different skill caps and reward:effort ratios, but higher effort and skill cap should be rewarded more. Something like a Thief is very 1 dimensional, pretty easy to play and do OK with. Pick up an Ele, and there is a lot more effort required to achieve any results. Thieves tend to only bring damage, and sometimes venoms with the venom share build, while a good ele build brings AoE boons, regen, condition removal on top of their own personal stuff. Maintaining all of this and using it properly requires more effort, but that’s fine because the reward is greater.
I don’t understand too many of the effort vs. reward arguments. I’ve come to see what a class/build brings to the table as a whole, instead of focusing on one element of it. Take the Thief vs. Elementalist. Thieves can provide a bit of control, and plenty of damage, and an AoE stealth but it requires little effort. Elementalists can’t do as much damage, but all of the other stuff they bring to a fight is important, and makes them quite effective in numerous situations. We can’t burn down a bunker like a Thief, but we bring a lot of team support in exchange. The effort:reward ratio for damage is skewed, but looking at the classes as wholes instead shows a clearer picture.
Cipoet, please stop. You’re wrong in so many ways. Had a glorious 1v1 with a good backstab Thief tonight, ended the fight with full HP.
Feel free to roll a Thief or a Ranger and add me if you need lessons.
Well, I can’t speak for PvE as I’m only level 11 so far, but for PvP the basic setup is 20 Water/Air, then whatever else. Avoid Fire line, it’s pretty much useless for most builds.
Tank/Heal is 0/0/10/30/30 taking Armor of Earth trait, Evasive Arcana, and the regen/condition removal in Water. Cantrips are you absolute best option 99% of the time. Signets can be good in some builds, but cantrips provide so much benefit. Armor of Earth/Mist Form/Lightning Flash. Can be used with S/D or staff. Staff provides better group healing and support, while I find S/D to be a bit better at point holding.
For D/D it’s basically the same thing, but there are some variations. Some folks only run 20/20 Water/Arcana, but I find Evasive Arcana and the survivability/group utility in Water to be too good to pass up. The build I’ve been using is posted in the sticky. Can also work well with S/D, but you have to use Signet of Earth to land any Dragon’s Tooth against players that are awake.
http://www.gw2build.com/builds/d-d-spvp-d-d-elementalist-spvp-tpvp-7678.html
Sigils are kind of up in the air. Energy, and Battle are both excellent choices. Energy for better survivability + more Evasive Arcana, and Battle for more might stacking. Sigil of Accuracy or the fire AoE are good, too. You get 100% Fury uptime, so seeing the Fire sigil proc isn’t too rare, but it’s still relatively low crit, so Accuracy might be better. Haven’t tested. Runes are 2x Water and 2x Monk for boon uptime. Secondary effects tend to trump the minor stat boosts. The last 2 are up to you. I like prot duration and might duration.
Essentially, as long as you stick to the 20 Water/Arcana guideline with cantrips, you can’t go wrong with Ele.
A button to swap out of combat weapons would be a QOL buff for everyone. Don’t know why it’s not already in the game. Just a hassle currently.
@Selix
Wrong. Zephyr’s Boon = permaswiftness and fury with the fury on attunement swapping. Rotate Shocking Aura, Frost Aura, and Air attunment. Easily done. RTL and Lightning Flash both provide easy map travel. Lightning Flash can also go up obstacles.
I don’t know about 25 stacks of might, but I know I can achieve 18. It doesn’t last long, 3-4 seconds, and requires a pretty precise combo with Evasive Arcana, but nonethless 15+ is entirely achievable and maintainable.
I run Valk’s amulet with perma regen. And who cares about regen outside of combat, exactly?
Agreed on Mesmers. You can watch Aky vs. Tsunky on the Guru Ele forum. Fun video. Some Mesmers go down easier than others, and I have spiked some very hard, but no where near instagibbing.
A cantrip build brings 3 stun breaks. Even if you do get cheesed with back-to-back CC, these with Shocking Aura and RTL can make you hard to pin down. Shocking Aura buys time for the CC to wear off.
Yes, Backstab thieves instagib people. News at 11. Can’t win 1v1s without every CD? Laughable. You don’t need every CD available to win 1v1s at all. And everything but Mist Form and your elite tends to have a short enough CD that’ll be up at some point during the next fight.
Again, Backstab instagibs people. News at 11. I run 2500 armor 15k HP and I still get gibbed if I don’t see it coming. But it’s debatable whether this is a hard counter.
Not everyone sees you coming. If you run into a teamfight and Fire Grab a burning Glass cannon, you can knock 7k crits. Churning Earth > Lightning Flash > Fire combo can down a bunch of people at once. I agree, it doesn’t happen often, and if they have any HP/toughness you won’t be doing that.
Agreed. We are valuable roamers, but our burst isn’t up there with some other classes. We can do 13k~ in like 4-6 seconds with 11 button presses, but that’s nothing compared to Backstab or Frenzied 100B.
Atrixer, D/D Zephyr’s Boon power/healing build is excellent. Huge teamfight presence, and excellent at backcapping with permaswiftness + RTL. AoE might, regen, protection, and condition removal, decent AoE damage, spike potential with Fire Grab/Churning Earth, and personal 80% uptime on protection with 13k worth of heals. Pretty sturdy, slippery, and great map mobility.
Feel free to spout off ignorant, pointless arguments like “it’s an inexperience issue”. You’re not really helping your case, and you’re not exactly backing up any of your points – nor are you making points. I assume you’re a troll, but I’ll bite anyway.
Stealth is not overrated. Especially not combined with someone who also knows how to move while in stealth to juke. This is compounded by the current rendering issue. And if you’re looking to get out of the fight and re-open when your CD comes back, stealthing and using I-Arrow or another Shadowstep can easily ensure your escape. Bad Thieves stealth and stay in the same area, good Thieves stealth and move behind the target, since any smart opponent will begin attacking the area the Thief stealthed in. Sounds more like you’re inexperienced with stealth than your opponents if you think it’s overrated.
@Miniachilles
It still doesn’t matter because no other class has that gimmick build, or can put out those numbers. If everyone could do it, it would be balanced, but also a fragfest. Might as well play an FPS. If only one class can do it, it’s broken. In other words, if the best burst build is a Thief build, then why roll anything but a Thief for that role? Imbalance.
Try doing a forum search for stealth bug/exploit. You’ll find numerous complaints. Shutting your eyes to them doesn’t mean they aren’t there…
(edited by Animosity.5231)
If no other class can do that burst, then if anyone wants a burst build why roll anything but a Thief? If you play a Thief, try to step back and see the larger picture. No one should be able to do that damage.
And he may have 11k HP, but he still has stealth and shadowsteps to retreat if he fails. If an Elementalist were to run 11k HP, not only would they be unable to put out that damage, but they also would die immediately because they don’t have stealth. Stealth is the best retreat simply because the enemy doesn’t know where you’re going. Apply the same concept to other classes.
Minachilles, I see it often enough in sPvP and tPvP, so do many others. I think you’re thinking of the distance loading problem, where the enemy zerg can be 10 feet away and invisible. That’s not what this is. If you spend most of your time in WvW, you’re obviously going to see it more often there. :P
And it doesn’t matter if the OP is a glass cannon because no other class or spec can put out that much damage in that amount of time. And the ones who even come close like 100B Warriors have a number counters besides dodging/invul. It’s too high no matter how you slice it.
(edited by Animosity.5231)
Yeah, ANet is targeting the tank/heal build, I think, but there’s no real way to nerf it without hurting every spec. That tank/heal isn’t reliant on any one weapon – it’s effective with S/D and staff, and can be modified for and offensive role with D/D. No way to hit that without hurting every other spec.
Marz pretty much sums it up. Eles are fun, and extremely effective in the right hands, and they bring a lot to the table. My D/D Ele build has 4 CCs, the ability to crit for 3-6k on Fire Grab, and Churning Earth, brings perma-swiftness/fury, AoE condition removal/regen/protection, has 80% personal uptime on protection, and excellent map-mobility. Oh and I can consistently maintain 10 stacks of might, some of it AoE.
The spike is unreliable, though, because Fire Grab is buggy, and Churning Earth has a 4-second, rooted channel. It excels in teamfights where I can jump in and burst down a number of the enemy team, while applying AoE might, condition removal, and regen, then get out. With 13k worth of heals and 2500 armor it’s pretty sturdy, and very slippery. The only place we’re really lacking is burst. We can achieve some 13k burst with proper comboing, but it takes 6~ seconds, and 11 key presses. And you know what? I’m fine with that, as long as it’s reliable – which it isn’t. If we could do damage like Thieves and Warriors, a good Ele would be unstoppable.
TL;DR: Eles are amazing, we lack burst reliability, and we can’t burst like a Thief or Warrior can. Not a big deal given how much a single build can bring to the table.
(edited by Animosity.5231)
I agree, Braxxus. I know how competitive scenes work. It’s obvious that we all take the path of least resistance, and I too have faith that ANet will be able to balance properly with that in mind. My faith has been dwindling, though. We still have two week before paid tournaments come out for them to make balance changes, but so far they haven’t done too much. They might be waiting for paid tournaments for data collection; see what the top teams are running, and whether it’s too strong, and balance with that in mind.
STIMjim, there is currently a rendering problem with all stealth. After it wears off, they can be targeted but not seen for another couple of seconds. If you tab target you can get them, but you still can’t see them besides damage numbers and the red arrow indicating your target.
Warrior with Fenzy up, Spacemayu. Doesn’t change the fact that Backstab crits for 10k.
Take a look at LoL, Braxxus. Their tournaments have had the widest range of champ selection for the past year than they ever had, and no one champ is being picked over and over and winning consistently. If they are, they get nerfed, and they can be countered anyway with banning. If the game is reasonably balanced to a 5-10% difference in effectiveness, there are no easy-win strats to abuse. But I agree, when there are, people abuse them to the max – and I can understand why when money is on the line.
I know about the stealth bug, but the problems is the ability to do 20k damage in around 2 seconds by activating C&D, hitting Steal before it finishes to ensure you land it, then Backstabbing. If everything crits and you get a Sigil proc, it can easily do 20k damage. Shouldn’t be like that. This kind of stuff promotes 1-dimensional builds with Thieves and prevents them from ever getting buffed in other areas.
I would like to see other kinds of builds as well (like a S/D one), but to pull of that 20k damage is more than just C&D and Steal. It involves a Signet and at least one venom (sometimes 2) all popped within 1-2 seconds,plus manuvering to the back of the target.
Oh, well that makes it OK, then! I guess Elementalists should be able to pull off 25k(!) bursts because they have to hit 9 buttons for a single combo. Right? That’s what you’re trying to say, right? Doesn’t matter how many buttons they have to press. 20k damage in 2 seconds is too much. Don’t try to justify it when no other class can do it.
I don’t blame Thieves for it, Braxxus. While I’d never want to play a build like that (tried it on my own Thief, didn’t find it fun) as it will more than likely be nerfed, and finding a viable build that isn’t likely to be nerfed will make you a better player in the long run; I do, however, blame ANet for not seeing this coming and continuing to let it go un-checked.
(edited by Animosity.5231)
I know about the stealth bug, but the problems is the ability to do 20k damage in around 2 seconds by activating C&D, hitting Steal before it finishes to ensure you land it, then Backstabbing. If everything crits and you get a Sigil proc, it can easily do 20k damage. Shouldn’t be like that. This kind of stuff promotes 1-dimensional builds with Thieves and prevents them from ever getting buffed in other areas.
Does it REALLY matter? An Ele coming to kill your Treb, if they know what they are doing, will ignore you and kill your treb with AoEs. I do this alllllll the time. The only thing that stops me is 1-2 more defenders, and sometimes I can ignore them due to their badness. LOSing with the treb while killing it makes it easy.
Not sure if there’s necessarily a problem with this, as many classes can do it. Guardians are another good one to send at a Treb as they are tanky enough to ignore the user while killing it.
Look at the picture closely, Knote. You can see a capture point in the background (white ring) and it’s obviously on Legacy of the Foefire. Wouldn’t surprise me if it were a Warrior with Frenzy up, though.
Yeah, there really is no excuse for such high burst capability.; even for the “assassin class”. I run decent toughness on all of my characters, at least 2500 armor on each, and I still get nailed for 5k Steal, 5k C&D, 10k Backstabs. Kind of ridiculous. Easy to counter if you see it coming, but I thought the point of no long-duration stealth was to avoid stuff like this, and killing in a chain CC (PW). Stealth in this game is worse, IMO, than it ever was in any other game. It makes what should be a paper thin build very survivable, and allows fight resets and re-opens far more than games like WoW ever did.
I understand that ANet wants a fast-paced, action-oriented game, but they stated they wanted fights to be between 20-40 seconds. This throws in the face of that by making scenarios where the fight doesn’t even happen – someone just dies instantly.
There was a post about this before, and I checked a few of the more popular hacking forums and didn’t see anything about this. Not even old programs or exploits that got fixed – nada.
I just checked again and still nothing. Thinking it’s just a server problem.
Nice how ANet with all of their big plans forgot about basic functionality. Why there is no checkbox to stop the pop-ups is beyond me, and I find it irritating as well.
Kevingway, go to options and turn off Autotargeting.
The situation hasn’t gotten better at all, Art, and RTL has been broken since beta. It’s crap, and really poor performance on ANet’s part.
At least give immunity to damage during it so we don’t end up getting ourselves killed anymore.
/signed
Play with friends and the enemy team still might not ready up at all. How does that solve anything?
That said, I read the forums during the wait. Turn on the sound, and turn off “mute while in background” and all is well.
But yeah, some people are impatient jerks, and others purposefully refuse to ready up to cause grief. It happens.
Honestly, Thief balance is tough. Take a look at virtually any weapon set. They have AA, condition damage skill, power damage skill, then utility. D/D is the best example. AA, Death Blossom (only good with condition builds), Heartseeker (only good with power), Dancing Dagger, and Cloak and Dagger.
Dancing Dagger is more of a ranged chasing option given its cripple, and not really a damaging skill. DB only works well with condition, HS only works well with power, and C&D costs too much to spam despite it’s high damage potential. You nerf HS, what does a power D/D Thief have for damage? Nerf DB, same issue for D/D condition Thieves. ANet put themselves in a rock and a hard place with balance on Thieves. Likely the reason the skillsets are like this is because of initiative – the root of Thief problems.
This is likely the reason for the small, incremental nerfs to Thief skills. Nerf one too hard, and it’s a broken weapon set.
I almost exclusively play sPvP and tPvP and I still say our numbers our fine, and when played/built right an Ele is a force to be reckoned with. Warriors are easy-mode for me, most Thief builds, too. I rarely, if ever, die in a match.
The problem is just the bugged traits/skills, and the fact that our only good traits tend to fall into Water and Arcana, with a couple sprinkled throughout Air and Earth. No trait variation, unreliable spikes (require a lot of setup to maximize damage, and to even land them), and bugged skills make us feel underpowered. If you run anything but 20 Water/Arcana you’re pretty much kittening yourself. Never mind our utilities where only Cantrips and mayyyybe Signets are viable.
That said, we excel with heal builds if you’re looking for survivability. Healing power scales with the amount of healing skills you have, and toughness tends to make it scale well – focus on those 2 for survivability. The fact that we have 1-3 healing skills on each set kind of points us in that direction.
It’s true that we’ve been finding some builds that are effective, also true that much of the QQ stems from the low skill floor/high skill ceiling. I rarely die even in 8v8 on a D/D power/heal build, and I tend to rack up kills.
Doesn’t change that most of our powerful traits fall into Water/Arcana, that Fire traits and mostly useless, we’re still paper thin, and our animations/set up requirements make bursting at best unreliable. I can crit Fire Grab for 5k with my current build, but the trouble is landing it.
Bugged traits and skills, and really poor animations (Dragon’s Tooth) really hold the class back. To crit 5k I need to burn the target, then immobilize if I want a chance to land it. Or use Churning Earth which has a 4-second rooted charge up. Super easy to dodge or interrupt. Everything else hits for half this, and we don’t have the luxury of 14k damage 100B type skills, or 4k HS, or 10k Backstabs to at least make the set up and animation time see like it’s worth it.
That said, still the most fun class I’ve played.
They have 90 second CDs, which means your charge will be up before it. Do you only bring 1 CC? Try bringing a Sword on off-hand. Activate Flurry, immediately swap, use 100B. The immobilize stays in place.
Dodge Bull’s Rush, CC the Warrior, stun-break and dodge. By far the easier class to counter. They really aren’t a problem. Pro tip: dodge to the front or back of the Warrior. Going to the sides will still get you hit since 100B is a decent sized cone. Absolutely the definition of a gimmick, and exceedingly easy to beat.
Thieves, however, are another story. You could just be running over to a node, not see the Thief behind you, and suddenly you’re dead. They didn’t even use utility skills to do it, and they now have whatever they got from Steal to use on the next poor schmuck they target. Still avoidable when you see it coming, but requires no real effort, or CDs on the Thieve’s part. 100b may do more than 10k damage, but it’s over at LEAST a 1.5 second period. Thieves do it all at once.
You see a balance problem, I see options. Some classes require more work to get similar results, and that’s how it should be. They should naturally be rewarded by having more options for being more complex, Eles are. Look at WoW Feral druids during Wrath (last time I played), they could do DPS just fine, but ever seen their “rotation”? It was actually represented with a flowchart, and spawned a meme. There is nothing wrong with that, as they also had more available tools, and options to choose from.
Eles have the same thing. We get multiple boons, with high uptime. We get multiple gap closers, condition skills, power skills, and CC and that’s just with one weapon set.
The only concern should be whether we can do things on par with other classes. Some we can, others we can’t. That’s a problem, surely, but the problem isn’t with the whole “more work” thing, it’s the results that matter. I’d be upset if they dumbed down Ele to be like every other class. We have a lot of potential versatility, and even in practice we still have plenty.
We can apply AoE Might by ourselves, 6 stacks, 9 if you use an Energy sigil. We apply AoE regen, and condition removal. We can achieve 10k worth in healing for ourselves while maintaining a decent, steady DPS with some potential for burst (Fire Grab, Churning Earth), and that’s on top of the boon stacking. We can also maintain 100% uptime on Fury, Swiftness, and 80% on protection for ourselves. With ONE BUILD. If the price we pay is to be more complex, then I say it’s a fair trade-off, because utilizing all of this properly takes more skill. The way it should be.
Where we suffer is reliability. We can’t RELIABLY spike because of poor animations, casting times, and the amount of setup required for our spike skills to be useful. We can’t reliably gap-close because of bugs with RTL and Magnetic Grasp.
If you think the problem is complexity, you’re way off. The problem is reliability. Our complexity and versatility is there, some animation tweaks and bug fixes would go a long way to fixing reliability.
I run a build very similar to Munkel. I take Signet of Earth, Lightning Flash, and Cleansing Fire. Mist Form is nice for stomps, but the CD being so long and the bug making it unaffected by the trait makes it lackluster, IMO.
I also run Zephyr’s Boon instead of the 10 in Earth. With Battle/Accuracy Sigils, 2x Monk and Water runes (secondary effects trump the minor stat increases in most cases, and I like boon uptime), and whatever other 2 runes you like. This allows for hefty protection, fury, regen, and 100% swiftness uptime with proper skill use. Valk’s amulet for power/healing, and you should have around 600-700 healing power. That’s about 5k in heals from Water attunment alone. Fury and Accuracy sigil give all the crit you really need. Jewel depends on where I’m playing. tPvP I tend to run knight’s, 8v8 I tend to use zerker’s.
Elemental Attunement trait + Glyph of Elemental Harmony = 80%~ uptime on Protection, too. Swap to Earth during the heal, bam. You can get a bit more with the right runes, too. 33% damage mitigation is pretty huge, though even with that and 2500 armor I still get crit by HS for 3k, and 10k backstabs.
You can easily, and I mean easily maintain 10+ stacks of Might in any fight. I often find myself with even more than that, plus 100% uptime on Fury. Sigil of Battle, Evasive Arcana, and Zephyr’s Boon.
I assume we get less base health to make up for the fact that we can achieve 10k HP in heals with 600~ healing power, some of it AoE.