Guild Wars 2

I would love for someone to share the link where Anet says its not intended to use the aoe restriction in conjunction with heals/buff non-restrictions.. I hear about it a lot but have not read it myself and would love to do so. Or that it is an unintended side effect for them to counter each other might have been how it was described.

Sometimes a “bad commander” is the only one willing to step up and do the job.

“Lead, follow, or get out of the way” in this case.

IMO if you aren’t willing to “put the pin” on, then might need to consider which of the 3 categories to play in. It is easy to say a commander “sucks” but not so easy to step up and do the job in their stead.

Cogbyrn.7283:

combined with the NON-Buff cap

I’m pretty sure people here have said buffs cap at 5 per pulse as well. Can anyone prove either way, or are we just going to continue to shout at each other?

shouts and heals do not cap at 5 people example.

Sebyos.4089:

Turtles with half a brain move with portals and will portal on your siege before you even finish em. Seriously stop with your dumb solutions. Or they can simply rush it or build their own balista.

for reals with all the “duh it’s obvious” answers. Top guilds in the game are countering it .. peeps think for reals there’s original ideas that obvious? It’s countereable, it’s not about the counter it’s about how imbalanced it is and weather or not Anet actually intended this effect fromt he AoE cap combined with the NON-Buff cap plus Portal.

thats what a squad is…

you can talk in squad anyone can join the squad
the squad commander can see how many supplies his squad is currently caryring etc… that is already there. Turning that into a standard only 15-20 people can join a raid group would make guilds pick guildies only and leave the PUGS to fend for themselves with no organized leadership, where as now anyone can just pick the commander they want to follow and join their squad.

Wish I could be playing but it is nice to see SBI with the late-game second wind again =)

vespers.1759:

1. get rid of commander
2. add raids of 25 people
3. FUN.

commander is useless and annoying.

yeah I don’t want to go back to xx# man raids in this situation
Need the ability to use PUGs not just guilds and closed raids would be just that IMO. Would trade sense of WvW Community for Elitism

I would like to see like a gold pin that’s badges bought for example so you can have some differentiation.

Blue pin = PvE or WvW PUG zerg herders (100g)
Silver Pin = WvW only Commanders (300 Badges)
Gold = WvW Map commander (600 badges + guild influence level)

if you join a commanders squad you don’t see other pins.

Jacklo.4230 “Perhaps a better approach would be to make players more vulnerable to AOE damage when they are very close together?”
————————————
I kind of like this idea…

again we are not talking about when a Mesmer spec ops their but through a choke or flanks your forces and ports an army in… we are talking about when 40 people stack invulnerability/stability/heals to such a point they are “near” invulnerable as there’s still something that counters stability/invul, THEN begins to portal from siege equipment to siege equipment, dead player to dead player, NPC to NPC never taking damage unless u have pre-set arrow carts and have the right classes to counter the invulnerability ON HAND.

This isn’t just porting into the lords room, or behind you siege camp.

You might ask who cares because you can’t really take a keep doing this… but you can hold up a way-point, manpower, siege destruction at a far higher value than any risk you take, for example.

@ Jabtangs.9251

yeah I can see that frustration. We’ve dumped fistfuls of gold into SM this week and I’d say those were legit turn overs, I can’t imagine the drama of doing that just to have it out of no where change color without a breech or anything. I wouldn’t want to play either.

It doesn’t sound like it’s about the orb buff at all but that they have to accept to never have it because it can just be taken away at will almost to taunt peeps into wasting the gold, or to grief since it seems to happen at will and right after full upgrades happen".

I don’t care who you are, you grief someone enough and they are forced to turn into griefers in return, or abstain from the events.

It seems the tiers even out with time from top down.. but yeah that pic doesn’t look awesome.

a 3 day t1 match would be useless as it would differ too much from weekend to weekday on wind and reduce those upgrade contributions, making the use of upgrades useless. I can see the argument for tiers that are still balancing but I dont see how it would would out if it wasn’t the same for all.

RockonHarder.7235:

Arani.9057:

RockonHarder.7235:

I’m not sure if anyone actually remembers a game called “Shadowbane” it was a MMO WvW enviroment. this game came out before WoW.

Any guild that was worth anything “stacked” we called out targets and dominated other guilds.

this isn’t a system thats new. it’s been getting done in any game that has allowed it. because it’s a tactic that works. The real issue is the culling problem.

people who have issues with the tactic of stacking are more then likely just frusterated by the fact they are not as organized. which is understandable. in the end to be truely effective you need to be in a group.

we really need to stop making multiple threads. its not “stacking” we are talking about we are talking about Buffs being unlimeted targets and a 40 man zerg with invulnerability and stability that can’t be hit in the first place let alone the 5 amn AoE restriction after that.

the culling and portal drama is just icing on the cake.

Buff’s while are unlimited only have temporary effects. i have a guardian so even with max traits spent i can put a buff up that last’s 12-14ish seconds but then have to wait 48-96 seconds before i can put it up again.

stacks while useful are only so useful. powerful against an unorganized groups. So far as i can tell my only issue i have found with stacks is i can’t see them until i run into it.

there are ways to beat a stack. for example. seige is not affected by the limit of 5 targets.

i know i’m playing the devils advicate on this but i’ve played alot of WvW based pvp over the years and this is a tactic that gets used alot.

2000 years ago they used the Phalanx formation. but eventually it got broken too.

as for how the buff’s can target more then 5 well they are of limited use and unless the group is extremely organized those buff’s will be down alot of the fight.

tell me how often most classes can drop an AoE and then ask yourself how often a class can drop a buff.

i get that it’s frusterating but i can’t honestly say any of that is truely broken.

buffs stack up to 60s, with a 45s refresh (example) it would be constantly up by example… phalanxes didn’t have the benefit of only having 5 people risk damage if their shields dropped.

A soldier has an estimated duration of “stamina” (boons for our example) that allows him to hold said shield if you can refresh said stamina as fast or nearly as fast as it drains he can hold it forever or nearly so only allowing minimal damage to come in small pockets of risk meanwhile AoE healers have no limitations ro cover those pockets.

It’s not about the countering, people know how to counter, it’s about the risk v reward of it. There is not enough risk for the reward of how much siege equipment and cash destroyed, or time consuming distraction to the enemy, for example when performed well. Little loss chance, lots of gain potential = imbalance issue.

Some classes have more AoE conditions/Buffs than others. Can’t really compare the 2 in a generalized fashion like that IMO. An ele has a lot of both (on the left side and no spec considerations), I have 1 for example, and the same 1 is also my buff, so its on them or us or we are engaged in melee ranged fight. (not including the staff boon bounce for this example). I don’t think it can be compared how you have posed it.

Mighteous.9281

Brad pitt didn’t have a 5 man AoE cap nor the ability to portal to the walls… when they moved they were vulnerable and hence a risk. When you have no vulnerability there is no risk.

Last 2+ weeks SBI and JQ members have publicly shared their respect for the challenge the other team has brought with of course our random idiots/trolls mixed in on both sides, but we have mutually given respect as competitors IMO.

I can’t seem to find many non “QQ babies we can play how we like, deal with it cuz your in last place, suck it”, replies from the new kid. Granted I’m assuming these are mostly the players BG majority wishes would go away idk, but I’m not feeling that same we are respected competitors atmosphere that even SBI/JQ has seemed to grow into even with their mutual historic distaste. Maybe it’s a “new money” kind of thing. I hope sophomore year goes better.

Ender.3508:

Can someone enighten me as to whether or not siege like ballistas and arrow carts are affected by this cap?

No they do not follow the AoE cap but they do follow Invulnerability and stability rules.

WM always been a well respected opponent. +1

I think public claims of “hacking” of entire guilds/servers should start having repercussions. It defaces a server or guild’s ability to recruit quality talent and reputable players. The only reason to post publicly like that is to try to discredit.

Nohonor.5382:

I hear that siege such as arrow carts and ballistae ignore the five person cap aoe damage.

they do but they don’t ignore invulnerability or stability

Snow Aeth.1937:

@kidbs
So what exactly do you do when 40+ non stacked enemies come to your door?
You run into them and manage to kill them all?
You don’t use siege to shoot them?

40 non stacked enemies are much more mobile than a stack.

The fact that you fail at counter just means your group is less organized, there is no buts.
Your server attempted turtle tactic with your supposed strongest guild WM, and they got wiped.
Oh yes turtle tactic is so easy, yet when you do it you die?
And when we do it, we’r invincible?

Just stop fooling yourself already and learn to adapt like the groups that succeed in countering do.

And if you got no time/resources to set up siege, it means you’r either outmanned/outplayed.
That is not because the enemy stacked up, but because your side is lacking.

we are talking about a group that does this and exclusively portals from spot to spot so this statement is incorrect. This isnt about the counter … it’s been “countered” its about the risk vs reward of turtleport vs counters

lil baby anime.6834

Why not use AoE that doesn’t have the 5 player cap?

they have invulnerability and stability with this mechanic set up and it isn’t “JUst” use the bigger AoEs. You have to first strip the invulnerability or use the only thing that counters stability before you can even start to work on the AoE limit issue and then add in the mobility of portal and its rinse repeat if they don’t overly suck.

@ kidbs.8920: no think this one was the first dedicated to the topic except the one where SOME BG members (not all) are trying to say its some new leet strat they came up with the spartans and their elite slave Helot forces or such…

I didn’t mean to dismiss your thread start I’m glad this one is here it was outlined well it’s all the others starting to get repetitive and people seem keep going back to thinking this is just about the AoE limit or porting or stacking …

If you are new tot he thread please read the OP. This is NOT about oh just arrow cart the stack or just Batista them etc etc… it’s not about just do this counter la~

CrimsonHandHiro.9574:

Arrow Carts/Ballistas, Stack done. See you in the next cheese and whine thread!

Now watch the portal go from arrow cart to arrow cart because they have invulnerability and stability.

RockonHarder.7235:

I’m not sure if anyone actually remembers a game called “Shadowbane” it was a MMO WvW enviroment. this game came out before WoW.

Any guild that was worth anything “stacked” we called out targets and dominated other guilds.

this isn’t a system thats new. it’s been getting done in any game that has allowed it. because it’s a tactic that works. The real issue is the culling problem.

people who have issues with the tactic of stacking are more then likely just frusterated by the fact they are not as organized. which is understandable. in the end to be truely effective you need to be in a group.

we really need to stop making multiple threads. its not “stacking” we are talking about we are talking about Buffs being unlimeted targets and a 40 man zerg with invulnerability and stability that can’t be hit in the first place let alone the 5 amn AoE restriction after that.

the culling and portal drama is just icing on the cake.

Katsumoto.9452:

Well it’s the first i’d heard of it and it only took me a very short time to figure that ballista’s would counter this turtle formation. So…. build ballista’s?

Stability

kidbs.8920:

Arani.9057:

kidbs.8920:

Why would they need to raise the AoE cap to fix this problem? Just make it so AoE spells can only hit 5 targets, but not limit it to only the same 5 people in a turtle.

if 5 people go (let alone die) down in a 40 man turtle, IF the vulnerability wore off by some chance, IF the unlimeted AoE heals didn’t keep them up, a 40 man zerg will insta rez.

Well now you’re talking about the shouts and buffs not having a limit which is another issue. Also collision detection is about the only thing that will fully prevent the problems. I for one wouldn’t mind having that in the game.

This is EXACTLY what this discussion topic (and about 4 others currently on forums) is about. The storm of AoE limit, Buff/Shout NON-limits then add in Portal mobility to boot in some cases.

kidbs.8920:

Why would they need to raise the AoE cap to fix this problem? Just make it so AoE spells can only hit 5 targets, but not limit it to only the same 5 people in a turtle.

if 5 people go (let alone die) down in a 40 man turtle, IF the vulnerability wore off by some chance, IF the unlimeted AoE heals didn’t keep them up, a 40 man zerg will insta rez.

Vayra.3290:

Arani.9057:

There are already 10 people dropping AoE including siege already when I double tap through lords room… I’ve never died in the Lord’s room Choke even once. If they kill me it’s further in. There are a couple chokes that I find tougher than most Lords rooms but I have yet to say gee commander that’s a lot of AoE I don’t know if I can get in this time.

That’s because the hits you take are spread out among all the people coming through (since each hit can only do damage to 5 people). If every hit dealt damage to each player you would be dead before you got within 30 feet of the gate.

I run in solo most the time

There are already 10 people dropping AoE including siege already when I double tap through lords room… I’ve never died in the Lord’s room Choke even once. If they kill me it’s further in. There are a couple chokes that I find tougher than most Lords rooms but I have yet to say gee commander that’s a lot of AoE I don’t know if I can get in this time.

filc.7051:

Arani.9057:

filc.7051:

Arani.9057:

filc.7051:

Limit for AoE is there for a reason. It’s not a “known flaw in the AoE mechanics”. It’s there to protect you from serious AoE spike, which you can get from organized groups. Imagine 30-40 ppl AoE spike, THAT would be OP and design flaw imho.

Remove this limit and you will see what is the real power of organized group.

The AoE limit is not the “flaw” I was refering to. It is Using the AoE limit with the Buff/Shout/Invulnerability NON-limit in conjunction with portal mobility. AoE limit was not made to make 40 people invincible in most cases.

Yes, it’s coz lots of boons stack the time, not the value. On the end if you have enough dmg even the turtle will die, but to do that you need organized group on the other side and commander, who knows what to do.

I’m member of MA, which is part of DYES and I died a lot during the weekend. So no, turtle is not invincible.

Agree turtle would Die if it didn’t port every 10 seconds…

Yeah, but for that you need 2 things:
a) lot’s of mesmers, coz recharge on portal is high, we had max 3 iirc and in one point we had just one.
b) to place portal mesmer needs to survive

boons stack upto 60s portal is shorter than that IF only 1 active Mesmer. Shorten the max stack times or remove invul stack all together.

Raven Paradox.1860:

I love how children always excuse a server of God knows how many (2,000 or so) of hacking when it’s just one person. I don’t care, disable the orbs, we’ll still demolish JQ and SBI. They’re easy. All talk, yet every time I log in they always flee or use the exploits they speak of.

I sign the petition to change their server names to JQQ and SBCry. That’s all their known for.

Go ahead, blame 2000+ people for hacking when one person did it and the rest of us all shake our heads at that one person. Oh, and from what I hear, there have been 2 confirmed reports of hacking FROM ALL 3 SERVERS and that was a few hours after the matchup started. Care to explain how we have a 20k pt lead on you all now? More hacking? Hmmm… no reports of that. JQQ and SBCry strikes again!

I also enjoy this complaining about tactics yet SBCry and JQQ haven’t even taken the time to try to learn them. Anyone can do it, yet they don’t. Oh, but they do enjoy the Portal and culling “bugs” and love to complain about them on these forums. Yet, have any Blackgate players come on here to complain about how SBI and JQ have 24/7 been attacking only Blackgate in EBG and very rarely attacking each other? We’ve constantly been having to re-flip our towers in EBG and never get a chance to upgrade it because we’re either fighting 100 @ Anza/Mendons or 100 @ Ogres. Can’t be in two places at one time.

Yet, we still lead by 20k…. match already seems like it’s done imo.

“Anyone can do it, yet they don’t” … this is the point. anyone can hack an orb or jump into castle etc… but they don’t… why?

filc.7051:

Arani.9057:

filc.7051:

Limit for AoE is there for a reason. It’s not a “known flaw in the AoE mechanics”. It’s there to protect you from serious AoE spike, which you can get from organized groups. Imagine 30-40 ppl AoE spike, THAT would be OP and design flaw imho.

Remove this limit and you will see what is the real power of organized group.

The AoE limit is not the “flaw” I was refering to. It is Using the AoE limit with the Buff/Shout/Invulnerability NON-limit in conjunction with portal mobility. AoE limit was not made to make 40 people invincible in most cases.

Yes, it’s coz lots of boons stack the time, not the value. On the end if you have enough dmg even the turtle will die, but to do that you need organized group on the other side and commander, who knows what to do.

I’m member of MA, which is part of DYES and I died a lot during the weekend. So no, turtle is not invincible.

Agree turtle would Die if it didn’t port every 10 seconds…

filc.7051:

Limit for AoE is there for a reason. It’s not a “known flaw in the AoE mechanics”. It’s there to protect you from serious AoE spike, which you can get from organized groups. Imagine 30-40 ppl AoE spike, THAT would be OP and design flaw imho.

Remove this limit and you will see what is the real power of organized group.

The AoE limit is not the “flaw” I was refering to. It is Using the AoE limit with the Buff/Shout/Invulnerability NON-limit in conjunction with portal mobility. AoE limit was not made to make 40 people invincible in most cases.

I run through an AoE choke point every breach Only the Batista to the face slows me down, not the AoE. You sure can get through it.

We know counters its not about the counter it’s about the RvR of the countering vs the TurtlePort RvR. This thread is a GROUP of BG members trying to defend using a known flaw in the AoE mechanics then pairing it with Portal Mobility, as a primary and in some cases an only tactic as some new leet strategy.

It’s not leet it’s not ingenious, it’s doing “whatever-it-takes” to win even when it hurts the server or causes Anet to lift AoE caps, remove portals, limit the number of players on a map whatever it takes to fix these mechanic flaws being abused by a small group. If everyone can do it, and are not, why do you think that is. When you take such grievous advantage of mechanic flaws the game counters it with giant Nerf bats all around, no one except maybe necros will enjoy IMO, or ELE lol because they can finally AoE properly /wink.

but because this has been pushed so much to the point of using no other tactic by this group, it pushes the need to drop the AoE restrictions even if its a bad idea or restrict buffs to the same standards AoE even… it’s not about the legality its about what its going to do to the game and the name attached to all undesired game changes because of its overuse will be attached to the infamous group who pushed it so hard.

and I run solo through arrow carts and AoE gaps like a champ so this AoE restriction is bad idea to lift is lost on me.

@Arius , no stress about terminology, just wanted to make sure we were talking about the same thing.

It’s not about the counter it’s risk vs reward. It can be countered but at a far higher risk vs reward rate of those using it.

Katsumoto.9452:

Quick question. I know player skills only hit max of 5 people, but how about siege? Is that also capped?

Siege is not capped.

Arius.7031:

I recognize that since it’s common place, that it’s a valid tactic. Turtling (or as my server calls it, stacking) really sucks all of the enjoyment out of our fights. We were a low tier server up until we made a huge leap upwards in the rankings. We got matched with a server called Maguuma. They used stacking against us. At first we viewed it as abusing the system for multiple reasons, we were to an extent wrong, but the idea behind it remained.

That entire match, we were quite dominant thanks to numbers. But, in order to fight Maguuma forces 1 on 1, we would have to start stacking on each other. Now, any time my server is having trouble with a fight, we pull out the stacking (though to our credit, we don’t when we don’t have to). Sadly, it just sucks every bit of fun out of WvW. It doesn’t feel or look epic when there’s two groups of people just sitting there AoEing at each other. There’s no chaos, no sense of a battle, it feels just far too much like we’re milking every little bit of effectiveness we can out of the game. It’s not fun, it’s what’s required to win. And combine that with culling, and sometimes we can’t even see these large groupings of players. It’s really sad.

Portal bombing I love on its own, though I think portal needs to be nerfed. I think stacking/turtling will be the reason I stop WvWing, and culling just makes everything worse.

We “stack” also but we move… we stack then push, stack/rally then move, stack then siege… etc. Movement from location to location… or maybe we just use the term “stack” much more loosely more compared to group up before a movement.

With this Turtle Port there is no movement at all outside of portal and no risk in this. Stacking is not quite the same thing or could just be a terminology difference.

kidbs.8920:

So currently we have a few mechanics in the game which I believe are a serious detriment to the future of WvW in general.

When used in combination it allows a group of 40 players to stand tightly on top of each other and take advantage of the shout buffs and heals while only having 5 people actually take AoE damage. On top of this, guardians can put up bubbles to protect the entire group from taking any damage.

….

(this quote was snipped see OP for entire quote)

I’m glad you explained this so clearly as I am one of those who did not understand what the big deal was until I saw it myself. To stress it’s the NO damage at all factor for 40+ people on top of the occasional random 5 (of 40) people that might take minor AoE damage which differentiates this from your average portal concept.

@ horndrid :

Not everyone feels it’s an entire servers fault when a few or a group ruin it for hte rest, and I’m sorry for the rest of BG who are taking heat form these things… you don’t deserve it imo, but maybe that’s why they made xfers so people will pick servers like guilds. When server gets a bad rep the good players can still go to one that fits them. And very sorry for those who call this home and are stuck with the drama

sincere sympathy for those who don’t deserve a bad light shined on them.

Vorpal.4683:

BG was by far the least classy opponent we ever faced.

However, I wouldn’t call this exploiting, as it’s clearly the way the code is supposed to work. It’s just mind bogglingly terrible design.

AOE’s exist to punish people for clumping up like noobs instead of learning to spread out properly.

However, unlike every other realm v realm game, GW2 has implemented a system where the best way to avoid aoe is by… clumping up!

The mesmer portal bombs and culling issues are just technical limitations icing on the cake of bad game design.

The cometary about “BG” aside this is the most accurate summation of this problem, and I love this game and am a Mesmer and agree with this. It’s not the classes, not the “servers” but groups of people taking advantage of unintended side effects of mechanics that are in place to protect but unfortunately have issues.

Just because it’s not technically a cheat, it is taking advantage of what has already been stated by Anet as unintentional game play and not defensible as some new “leet tactic” that we just can’t counter. It is simply dropping an a bomb on people leaving them little choices left except to begin doing the same and therefore ruining it for everyone.

I never portal people with the intent to cause lag, take advantage of culling, or make my friends immune to all damage. To me these are exploiting as I know the game did not intend for that. I’ve never been asked to do so either as I have never worked with a commander who would imo.

Just because you CAN jump into a castle from a cliff doesn’t make it less than cheating when u know you were not supposed to be able to, for analogy.

Aaron.4807:

Arani.9057 … Seriously, that reply read like “I am a Mesmer and don’t nerf me exploit holes!” God forbid mesmers should have to * gasp * do actual combat!

That’s not what I said at all, not even close. I said group only is too restrictive for a specific reason then gave feedback for another option in repose to a previous posters idea of restricting to group only.

These kind of replies begin the trail to lockout, it’s only reason is to rile people up who only read this blurb and not the entire thread and then derailing.

This thread is for a specific crews tactics that have been controversial and their desire to plead to the community to see their side of it, which IMO they have a right to do, weather I agree with the tactic or not.

I haven’t queued longer than 15 mins in weeks, got a 30 min queue on Saturday.

This is not a small group of people “breaking a larger zerg” —-——

This is 30/40+ people not moving a step and not being able to be damage, not just the zerg undamaged no player damage ticking at all. Watching single target damage not tick because there’s no limit to buffs.

I was called in twice yesterday to help out an out-mann buffed JQBL as a Mesmer and saw what they are talking about in full monty for the first time. This was not someone moving forces past a choke, or to infiltrate an unguarded keep… it was a zerg standing immobile porting back and forth between siege equipment, corpses to rezz, NPCs etc, taking advantage of the shouts and stability buff to make them invulnerable. There is no risk of death and all reward, and hence the game-break.

The second time I was called in they didn’t even bother to get off the portal pad, no melee whatsoever, they didn’t have to because they couldn’t be damaged. Giant gaping holes in the wall, gates down by a smaller force but once get to any confined space they just don’t move from their cluster and can’t be damage by anything that has an AoE limit.

This isn’t a point defense. They used this and only this at supply camps, keep defense, the ridiculous hour and a half barely failed siege on garrison then the successful one right after reset, same tactic.

I’m not saying “these guys suck”, just this is going to get everything ranged/portal/buffs nerfed and should not be called some leet tactic as its. This crew used absolutely nothing else except this tactic as I saw.

Like I said earlier there are ways to break it and we did but they are so unreasonably stacked in the wrong way of risk vs reward it makes it game-breaking potential.

portal limits —-————-

reducing portal to group only breaks the mesmer… we would spend 90% of our lives grouping and disbanding for supply runs to do same thing but Mesmers would quit playing if reduced to this. Its like in other games where you are a buff bot and 90% of your job is to buff via group and regroup to cast a 10 or 30 min buff on someone .. eq1 was like this heavily.

I’m not saying there shouldn’t be limits but “group only” is too limiting. I can see the argument for a condition applied once portal has been used by a player that they cannot portal again for x amount of time. But balancing Buffs/AoE limits seems more appropriate to what I saw.

this is a game-breaking level “tactic”, and with escalation would be the equivalent analogy of all countries arming up-to nuke level warfare and forget all other forms of warfare.

This eliminates all melee from the game in any most cases, not to mention the escalation to “zerg ONLY” warfare.

This is not spartan this is “I’m willing to push the nuke button and ruin it for everyone”, because this will get portals and ranged warfare nerfed, as more and more people are refusing to play with this in game, as is. This is intentionally taking advantage of unintended mechanics.

It’s not rocket science how to do it so why are so few groups using it.. because the rest see it as game-breaking catalyst, not an ingenious evolution in GW2 warfare.

aside from the poor necro I don’t think theirs a class that doesn’t have some kind of OP talent talk but with mes and thief we escape more where as others do not, but that’s what our classes are made to do. They are similar in their sneaky/stealthy aspects which can be frustrating as crap but you cant field a siege of 50 thieves and break the doors down imo.

Thieves make good scouts, stall tactics, and on occasion distraction because imo its kind of their job. Can’t judge the OPness of a class simply on it’s 1v1 talents imo, because wvw is not a majority of 1v1 but small to large group warfare with 1v1 scattered in.

Most the time these days I’m on a mission and no time to stop for a 1v1 with a thief so I’ll lose em to get back on my mission rather than try to kill him and maybe win or lose em if I win… the 1v1 isn’t the big picture imo.

Meshuggah.3704:

Baddies from JQ can only take SMC by using Mesmer portals.

so lols. when there are holes in the walls and both gates are down you are blaming losing stone mist on portal… not the fact that we broke through 2 doors before a portal hit the floor … keep the doors up to hold SM is the secret.

i don’t have jimmies… and takes more than that to rattle anyways lolzors
I wasn’t talking to you mr narcissism =p

if it’s not a bug it’s not an exploit to begin with…

It’s like zun tzu 101 to use your terrain, were peeps expecting everyone to file 4×4 and take volley shots till one side runs out of players?