The problem is not their damage alone…the problem is their sustain ALONG with their damage.
This applies to multiple classes, not just DH.
Everyone should really watch his youtube video of dh carrying (posted on his signature), before commenting here. It speaks volumes about his actual skill level and experience.
Here’s the link, in case he decides to remove it: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6DGRFVbvCnk
I keep hearing people say how easy it is to avoid the vault and that simply isn’t true in all situations. The good ones start vaulting and then shadow step at you. This makes the vault land instantly and there isn’t time to dodge roll kitten. They also like to stealth first before coming in with it. Essentially the vault thief is trash in a mid fight if he’s trying to be a bruiser about it and brawl on point but the smart ones who wait and creep around first are a guaranteed nuke to hit a team fight, usually dropping 2 or 3 players simultaneously with a single strike.
What’s broken isn’t really the damage behind bound and vault. It’s that they have parameters that allow them to enter a team fight late “when everyone is at half health” and do so in stealth and with a shadow step insta 15k bomb on every opponent at the mid point.
I’m sorry but it’s a bit broken and needs some patching. A good start would be so that none of it’s traits/runes or otherwise it’s procs, would ever work before it is in combat. It’s kind of messed up that they can build up a bunch of damage modifiers while sitting in stealth, ooc from mid and then come in with a 15k AoE nuke on point. That’s a REALLY over powered single strike attack. It’s not the staff thief build that’s broken, it’s just vault nuking. Maybe vault should only hit a maximum of 2 targets or maybe only 1.
Dunno, maybe a better way to explain this isn’t that it’s OP but rather it’s broken. Some of that power needs to be distributed in other places on the staff build, not just dumped all into 1 skill. That way the build as a whole is playable and not just used for single strike point nuking.
I’m not reading this wall of text after that first couple of sentences.
You do know that you CANNOT use other skills, including shadowstep, while vaulting…right?
Your knowledge gap is painfully obvious, as is your PvP skill and experience.
…vault’s coefficient damage needs to be nerfed by about 50%
I died from laughing…and then I had to come back to life so I could laugh even harder.
Lets be honest here, from what I’ve seen Thief doesn’t need any skill in 1v1 or 2v1 whatsoever… The point where most Thieves fail especially in low divisions, is rotation and decisionmaking. I’ve seen Thieves with the worst rotations or randomly pushing team fights, winning 1v1’s against truly better players. In the end it comes down to rotations, which most Thieves fail on, which is why their teams flame them for losing….
2 things are obvious from this response.
1: You don’t play a thief.
2: You’re at a relatively low division.No thief should be winning a 1v1 at equal skill level. There’s absolutely zero excuse for you to lose to a thief if your skill levels are equal…with the exception of utter trash tier.
that towerman said is true , skill rank not only is tied to player skill on 1v1 or wining a fight its also tied to “PVP skill” (map awareness, know where to be in a precise moment etc etc) mid and low tiers(and some in mid-high) are full of tief with a superior mechanical skill(for their rank) but 0 “PVP skill” usualy they are WvW players only seeking for duels
Since it’s not apparent to you yet…let me try make this clear to you: there’s a significant difference between class faults and player faults. Once you can identify that, then come back to this conversation.
Lets be honest here, from what I’ve seen Thief doesn’t need any skill in 1v1 or 2v1 whatsoever… The point where most Thieves fail especially in low divisions, is rotation and decisionmaking. I’ve seen Thieves with the worst rotations or randomly pushing team fights, winning 1v1’s against truly better players. In the end it comes down to rotations, which most Thieves fail on, which is why their teams flame them for losing….
2 things are obvious from this response.
1: You don’t play a thief.
2: You’re at a relatively low division.
No thief should be winning a 1v1 at equal skill level. There’s absolutely zero excuse for you to lose to a thief if your skill levels are equal…with the exception of utter trash tier.
Why is there so much thief hate??? I’m not a great thief but I’m not bad either but getting blamed before the match starts is really stupid.
And this is how you spot a bad thief, like others said before, a good thief can carry a game, a good one is dead weight, the special snowflake mentality
And this is how you spot a bad player. Even best thief in game is only as good as his team. If your team is incapable of holding a point, then you can’t do much. Let’s take Sind – he is probably best active thief on EU atm (fangirl mode on!!!) but i have seen him lose matches when he had a bad team.
What OP mentions is true. If Sind would be playing on some no-name account for example and his team would lose, chances are he would als get flamed and blamed. This has been normality for years now.
I am not denying there are bad thieves, but often teams resort to blaming the thief instead of looking at own mistakes. It has been done to me, i also have seen decent thieves getting flamed by their teammates way too many times.
My biggest issue is that teams often don’t know how to play with a thief on team. There is always that moron that keeps charging far and pulling enemies there so you can’t really go for decaps (but still getting yelled at that you don’t decap). Since this one guy is missing from the team fights, you are forced (as a thief!!) to take his spot in those fights and thief is like worst team fighter in game. Then we have people that farm animal 24/7 and let enemy steal it when it should be thieves job. Or people forcing thief to defend the point because they would rather chase some guy on the beach. Etc etc.
Bottom line, they force thief in situations that thief is not meant for and then flame and blame that thief for not “carrying” them.You know what would solve majority of that problem? If thief wasn’t shoehorned into such a garbage role where it had literally zero versatility.
‘+1’ and ‘decap’ is a joke of a role. 95% of the time you’re better of taking a mesmer or a revenant instead of a thief.
This guy…I think he nailed thief’s description perfectly: https://www.reddit.com/r/Guildwars2/comments/5ykcc6/pvp_condi_counters/deqxlk0/
If you don’t like the role of the thief, then why not play a different class? That’s like complaining about healing other players while playing a healing class. And thief is still the king of +1 and decapping. If mesmers or revenants are doing a better job, then you’re not playing thief well.
I don’t play the game anymore dear.
Don’t make assumptions…it makes you look bad.
‘+1’ and ‘decap’ being the sole role of a class and balancing the class to be shoehorned into it is incompetency at best on the balance team’s part. However, judging by your comments, I’m not surprised to see that you’re incapable of comprehending that.
Also, before you ask a stupid question: I’m free to use the forums without playing the game.
(edited by Asur.9178)
Why is there so much thief hate??? I’m not a great thief but I’m not bad either but getting blamed before the match starts is really stupid.
And this is how you spot a bad thief, like others said before, a good thief can carry a game, a good one is dead weight, the special snowflake mentality
And this is how you spot a bad player. Even best thief in game is only as good as his team. If your team is incapable of holding a point, then you can’t do much. Let’s take Sind – he is probably best active thief on EU atm (fangirl mode on!!!) but i have seen him lose matches when he had a bad team.
What OP mentions is true. If Sind would be playing on some no-name account for example and his team would lose, chances are he would als get flamed and blamed. This has been normality for years now.
I am not denying there are bad thieves, but often teams resort to blaming the thief instead of looking at own mistakes. It has been done to me, i also have seen decent thieves getting flamed by their teammates way too many times.
My biggest issue is that teams often don’t know how to play with a thief on team. There is always that moron that keeps charging far and pulling enemies there so you can’t really go for decaps (but still getting yelled at that you don’t decap). Since this one guy is missing from the team fights, you are forced (as a thief!!) to take his spot in those fights and thief is like worst team fighter in game. Then we have people that farm animal 24/7 and let enemy steal it when it should be thieves job. Or people forcing thief to defend the point because they would rather chase some guy on the beach. Etc etc.
Bottom line, they force thief in situations that thief is not meant for and then flame and blame that thief for not “carrying” them.
You know what would solve majority of that problem? If thief wasn’t shoehorned into such a garbage role where it had literally zero versatility.
‘+1’ and ‘decap’ is a joke of a role. 95% of the time you’re better of taking a mesmer or a revenant instead of a thief.
This guy…I think he nailed thief’s description perfectly: https://www.reddit.com/r/Guildwars2/comments/5ykcc6/pvp_condi_counters/deqxlk0/
I’m willing to bet you duo queued most, if not every single match.
Even if he did he still belongs near the top.
It’s okay; the point being made is not to be understood by all. If it were, then you wouldn’t have a solo matchmaking system that allows for duo queues.
I’m willing to bet you duo queued most, if not every single match.
Duo queue in ranked, especially placement matches is utter stupidity.
If you want to guarantee doing well in your placement matches, bring a good partner.
The game’s balance is still kitten cause the balance team doesn’t seem to know what they’re doing, especially with certain classes.
Sure, let’s just completely kitten on the only high tier sPvP thief build…while not allowing the other sets to ever be comparable, or be viable at that skill level, because your balance team just doesn’t know how to handle and balance thief properly; nor have they learned over the course of almost 5 years now.
The best counter is to play a better class.
If you want to play a thief, grow a thick skin and be prepared to get used, abused, and blamed for everything.
If you’re a masochist, thief is the perfect class for you. If you think you aren’t a masochist, but enjoy getting used, abused, and blamed on your thief…then I have bad news for you: you’re a masochist.
All I know is I’m shelving my thief (quite unfortunate), and after fiddling around with some stuff on the other 8 classes (mostly rev) for the next few days, probably shelving my game if nothing clicks (even more unfortunate).
I have no interest in playing my mesmer, warrior, and guardian again next season, because the balance team is too incompetent to make unused weapons, skills, and traits better. They nerfed the class’ only defensive mechanic (evasion), without compensating them with any form of reliable access to protection, aegis, or invulnerability. On top of that, they buffed mesmers and their phantasms, warriors, and guardians. I mean this balance team is utter trash and clearly playing a different game than the rest of us.
All I wanted from them was to make sword and pistol MH better and fixing bugs which has been around since over 4 years (scorpion wire & shadow trap primarily), but apparently that’s asking too much. I wasn’t even expecting more team play ability from thief considering they haven’t given a kitten about the selfish class in years. They need to seriously consider changing the dev in charge of thief balance (we know who it is) because he clearly has no love or aspiration for the class.
I haven’t been able to get my competitive fix from this game in years, and DotA2 does plenty of that for me. As far as PvE goes, props to the raid team for Wing 4 (it was well done), but I am finding myself bored of the class that I once cared deeply for, because the balance team just doesn’t give a kitten – which is enough to drive me away.
Before you reply to me, if you think I never gave a kitten about the game, then consider the attached pictures.
http://i.imgur.com/Z8JCxI4.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/a9mpJwS.jpg
I blurred out the names because I do not like to get random whispers from complete strangers. What you cannot see on the hero panel is that Bifrost is overskinned with Nevermore, Ad Infinitum is overskinned with Ascension, 3 phospholumi infusions, 2 winter’s heart infusions, and 8 ghostly infusions. That’s only my thief; so, yes, I spent a considerable amount of time on the class and the recent balance changes after the 4th gw2 birthday has only been slowly driving me away from the game.
Mesmer fanboys are so easy to spot in this thread. XD
It’s a game for casuals.
The balance team doesn’t care as much as you’d want them to care.
There’s your answer.
I have an amazing idea.
Can we make it so if you’re on a thief character you cannot participate in sPvP at all. Problem solved. We don’t have to see another thief ever again.
While at it, can we simply get rid of the useless class from the game altogether and ban any player who has more than 1000 hours on a thief character?
I’d start by removing the initiative system. As long as thief skills use the initiative system, thief can and will NEVER be balanced properly.
Must be difficult carrying games as a block/invul/evade/condi spam mesmer. /s
Who is actually happy with the current state of thieves?
Dev responses are irrelevant, because it’s apparent that you’re happy with it.
Heavy hitting AoEs…AoEs linger too long…easily rotate-able AoEs…constant stream of massive area of denial…passives out the kitten (not a problem with this class only)…blocks out the kitten …heals out the kitten …
I think I covered a lot of it already.