Guild Wars 2

StickerHappy.8052:

Atherakhia.4086:

I kind of agree with Sendaf. I personally would just make traps fill a hybrid role so they’re valuable to condi and power builds than simply try and focus all their attention on condi playstyle.

I’m also not sure removing a boon on trigger and traiting that to 2 boons is really powerful enough, but given the cooldown on some traps it may work out.

As for the comment that traps are fine, other than some quirks and spike trap overall, they’re not bad if you play a condi bunker build. Traps do have the problem of never being taken unless you spec for them though. The problem is the class overall just doesn’t provide much to the group and one thing this game needs more of is boon removal. Giving rangers access to it may start seeing them break into the meta in WvW and PvP.

I’m just not sure 2 boons per trap is enough when you consider how reliant rangers are on their utility skills to keep them alive. They sacrifice a lot to take a trap. Especially if they don’t specifically build for them.

1 or 2 or 3 boons, it doesn’t matter, the point is you have something new to bring to the table to your team, instead of just you know spending 6 points into Skirmishing just for a regular trapping playstyle.

Fire trap, Viper trap, Frost trap, are the only ones AOE, and youll be only getting 2 of those because you will lack stun breaks.

Spike trap should be AOE too. given its immensely helpful immob.

Do you think a Ranger will find a spot in a group just because their traps remove 2 boons per proc? Over a Necro or Mesmer that can remove far more? I don’t know… but that’s what needs to be considered.

Just bringing boon removal to the table isn’t going to help unless the entire class has a niche to fill that isn’t better filled by another class.

SobeSoul.6910:

Arken.3725:

Overcharged Shot: Again, instant-cced skills need to go. Give this a 1/2-3/4 cast time.

Warhorn: Increase the cd’s to 20 and 25 respectively. The amount of condition-removal on-top of it’s low cd makes this off-hand a tiny bit too strong in that department.(As well as 1 being a blast finisher)

Neither of these are good suggestions….

1) As engineer you have to buff check before using the skill. It is not a brainless skill. Besides Rangers basically have the same instant knockback without CC’ing themselves. You can argue the .5s timer on it. But still there’s no penalty for using it like OS.
2) Reducing condi removal on classes is the step in the wrong direction.

How is #1 different for any class?

No idea if true or not, but seeing as how every single other AE int he game is limited to 5, I really don’t know how Warriors are trying to argue to keep this? It’s not even a nerf… it’s a fix as far as I’m concerned.

I kind of agree with Sendaf. I personally would just make traps fill a hybrid role so they’re valuable to condi and power builds than simply try and focus all their attention on condi playstyle.

I’m also not sure removing a boon on trigger and traiting that to 2 boons is really powerful enough, but given the cooldown on some traps it may work out.

As for the comment that traps are fine, other than some quirks and spike trap overall, they’re not bad if you play a condi bunker build. Traps do have the problem of never being taken unless you spec for them though. The problem is the class overall just doesn’t provide much to the group and one thing this game needs more of is boon removal. Giving rangers access to it may start seeing them break into the meta in WvW and PvP.

I’m just not sure 2 boons per trap is enough when you consider how reliant rangers are on their utility skills to keep them alive. They sacrifice a lot to take a trap. Especially if they don’t specifically build for them.

I honestly dont know why axe isn’t 900 and dagger isn’t 600. But that said, horn 5 and axe 3 would be strong contenders for blast finishers.

Your change to Incendiary Powder is silly. If they want to change ALL passive applications to this kind of mechanic, it would be one thing. But to introduce this mechanic for one trait for one class is a waste of time and effort.

Just drop the burn to 2 seconds or up the iCD to 20-30 seconds.

Your change to overcharged shot also doesn’t seem reasonable. Most people are complaining about its cooldown. Your change wouldn’t impact much because a lot of people just net before it. The other changes to it also don’t seem reasonable. Just increase the cooldown to encourage the use of hair trigger.

Not everyone can play a Guardian and can spam 1 to get maximum wxp. Some of us play single target classes or ones more ideal at roaming. Not going to raise in rank that quickly in those situations

Every other game in existence has had a ranged nuking class. How did you handle them there? And in your 4 opponent example, what are your 3 allies doing? Perhaps you should bring a class that can nullify the range advantage? And then the idea that you have the tools to handle a Ranger but you shouldn’t be kitten d to use them? Come on…

Like I said above… the only class that has a legitimate complaint against Rangers is really Necromancers. They have no mobility, 1 gap closer, and short ranged attacks. I really can’t see another class having an issue against a power Ranger. And considering they’ve been this way for 3 months now and they still haven’t found a way to get into the meta they are either not powerful enough or what they provide isn’t wanted or needed.

I’m indifferent to nerfing them. But you have to keep in mind that the class was worthless in WvW before the change, they’re worthless now. Nerfing them will need to be offset SUBSTANTIALLY. Seeing how long it took for them to get what they got? I don’t think ANet has what it takes…

How overpowered would a trait be that made it so whenever a Necromancer had protection they also reflected (or destroyed) projectiles? Destroyed makes more sense since a lot of the protection we get is from spectral sources. Kinda in theme that the Necro becomes spectral so projectiles go right through him. For that matter, they could just attach the mechanic to the spectral buff.

Class has limited access to protection, but the access it does have is long duration. Most other classes that provide protection is self only other than Guard and Mesmer I believe?

The thing you’re ignoring about the melee classes in this game is they have an abundance of ways to get into melee range and maintain that range. While the Ranger has some kiting tools, there aren’t many on the LB+GS combo that is all too common. It’s also worth mentioning that despite the supposed strengths you list, the class still hasn’t found a way to break into the meta in PvP, WvW, GvG or competitive guild groups.

Being completely honest, unless you’re a Necromancer, a Ranger isn’t going to present an insurmountable hill you can’t climb. While the Ranger is certainly strong, a nerf while the class is still mostly obsolete seems premature without compensation elsewhere.

would be nice to see stealth I think.

Like put a 8 second debuff on them and should they stealth, they simply turn into a shadowy version of themselves to us only.

You’re doing it wrong?

TheBlackLeech.9360:

I’m going to fight on the Necro side of this argument.

If elementalists can stomp then activate mist form…. Necros should be able to do the same with death shroud.

It pretty much comes down to this.

There’s no reason another class can change forms, teleport, or use instant cast abilities to aid in a stomp and a Necro is interrupted when they enter of leave deathshroud midstomp.

MisterBang.3516:

Atherakhia.4086:

IMO, server pride hasn’t meant a thing since megaservers were introduced in PvE. At most there’s guild pride and ‘alliance’ pride, and those guilds/alliances will still remain.

If the name is a concern, then delete both servers and come up with a new name. Now you don’t need to worry about a Ferg4lifer being on ET. Now they’re on Fergusson’s Terrace and everyone’s happy.

After a week people won’t care about their old server, only that they’re finally having fun again on a new one.

You mean how they superstacked Aranzeb and then Kyrios and then Ollo?
Oh wait, wrong game…. But yeah, still same results really.
It’s pretty much like you’re asking for free transfer.

Why should a player have to pay for their backwater server to be merged with another backwater server for the sake of a viable player community?

But yes, once the servers are merged a free, targeted transfer may be needed. Hopefully they’ll handle it better than the last one.

IMO, server pride hasn’t meant a thing since megaservers were introduced in PvE. At most there’s guild pride and ‘alliance’ pride, and those guilds/alliances will still remain.

If the name is a concern, then delete both servers and come up with a new name. Now you don’t need to worry about a Ferg4lifer being on ET. Now they’re on Fergusson’s Terrace and everyone’s happy.

After a week people won’t care about their old server, only that they’re finally having fun again on a new one.

It’s not just the lower servers that suffer. The higher level ones do too. What do you think players on SoS are saying now that they’re stuck fighting in a lower tier?

“One more week of this and I’m transferring…”

ANet needs to realize that they simply don’t have the playerbase to support the number of servers they currently have. They really need to merge a lot of the lower servers and then consider openning free transfers to targetted realms (1 at a time…) until things even out.

I’m honestly not doing that great, but I’ve only been playing Necro consistently for a couple weeks now. The lack of mobility skill (not even one…) makes roaming a hassle abd the lack of any way to get toughness on a power build kind of forces you into a condi build which is kinda boring imo. But I’m new so can’t say how much is class and how much is me.

Warrior, Guardian, or Elementalist would probably be your best bet. But honestly you’re probably better off sticking with Warrior and just trying to figure the class out so long as you enjoy the way the class plays.

If you don’t enjoy how it plays then try Guard or Ele.

Interesting video. I personally don’t think it will work though. Diminished returns is a difficult concept to get across to players and I think the majority of players will just get frustrated. I agree with the other approach by just shaving might on battle/finishers, increasing the swap timer, or going back to unique sigils (which really wouldn’t impact your target classes unfortunately).

I’m also curious what your intention is with these changes? While it will certainly nerf Elementalists and Engineers somewhat, do you feel it will nerf them enough so the classes they’re currently kittenblocking can get into the meta? Even when you consider the changes you’re proposing will impact those classes as well?

It goes beyond the AI. Nearly the entire game was designed without even the slightest consideration for pets. They’re a complete liability in WvW. A lot of PvE content is very unforgiving to them. I could have my pet on passive and never do anything with it and it will be dead half the time.

Game is going on 2.5 years now. It’s probably time ANet wave the white flag.

An argument could be made that even 1% is too much…

Well then what’s keeping Necros out of the meta? Shadow Art Thieves and the Necro power builds being below par?

Solstice.1097:

lich form OP.

but yes necros need to be babysat a lot. but with good team support they absolutely wreck a lot of the builds that tend to cause the most trouble.

People tend to dislike playing classes that rely on others to provide the majority of their survivability. I also find it quite odd that for a class that lacks any mobility whatsoever, that they didn’t design the class to be sturdy as a rock. They then made the class heavily reliant on spells with actual cast times and channels to deal damage. I haven’t played the Necro much (despite mine being 80 for nearly a year or so) but I certainly understand the draw to condi builds because playing a power build while you spend the bulk of your time flopping around on the ground like a fish out of water is quite annoying. It really does seem backwards.

Even a slight amount of mobility and one realistic option for stability would do the class wonders.

With luck ANet will consider reviving class CDI’s next year and once we have a Ranger do-over since theirs was a complete disaster, perhaps Necros will be next.

Go Elementalist IMO. Each main hand weapon provides a very distinct playstyle for the class and they are currently seen as one of the best classes in the game. They have a bit of a learning curve for new players because of their attunement system, but they can be very rewarding if you stick with the class and truly master it.

While they do have the lowest health and armor of all classes in the game, you’ll be surprised just how survivable they are once you get going.

The only major downside to them is many consider them to be overpowered and who knows how ANet will address the issue come patch time next year. They also tend to be a bit more support oriented in organized play because of how powerful a lot of the staff skills are.

Once you get a character to 20 (I think?) you’re allowed to queue for PvP. You should definitely give that a shot with a couple characters to see which ones you really like and you can see first hand how the different weapons for each class affect the way they play.

Good luck.

Thread says new siege ideas as well. But you can easily convert the waypoint idea into a WXP exclusive.

For example… only people with the waypoint trait unlocked can interact with the way point beacon.

1 pt allows you to place the waypoint beacon or assist in constructing it. Make it a rather substantial cost so a single person building it would take too long to do it but if 10+ people worked no it together they could get a new way point up immediately. To balance this, way points must have 1minute to charge before use.

A second point will allow you to build defensive walls around your waypoint effectively increasing the health of the waypoint so it takes more than one treb shot to kill it. Like the actual beacon, it should be expensive so multiple people are needed to really build it quickly.

A third point can build a waypoint generator (limit 3). Without a generator, a way point can only port in XX people a minute and when they spawn they are at 50% health. A generator will allow +X more people at 75% health, a second for +X more at 100% and a third for unlimited at full.

The second idea we could introduce ‘suits’ instead of being a golem. The first suit is the one I described above. We could then have general suit WXP boosts.

Make the last point be the eject when dead like golems have. The point before last can make it so when the suit explodes it also knocks backs enemies around the impact site and disables siege around the impact site for 10 seconds. The other points can be general things like increase suit armor, give the suit an anti personal weapon, give the suit an anti siege weapon etc.

We could then add more suits later.

In my limited experience I agree with Drarnor, but I am finding it incredibly difficult to deliver damage. Especially as a power build. The lack of mobility AND lack of stability is too much to overcome. I’m trying to convince myself it’s a l2p issue related to my limited experience, but I honestly don’t understand why the class was designed this way?

You’d expect a class that wasn’t very mobile to be very sturdy so when you hit it, it’s like hitting a brick wall. Especially since a lot of the skills have long cast times and are easily interrupted.

Is this legitimately a l2p issue? Or is this the main reason condi necros are so popular and power builds tend to be more uncommon? This is why I originally agreed with a lot of what was said. Though after reading this thread and actually thinking about it I have changed my mind on some things.

Remove waypoints from WvW.

Allow players to build way points via siege at a specific area in hills, bay, and garrison so a valid tactic is to build a trebuchet and take out the enemies waypoint. Or don’t…

Introduce another golem called plain strider golem. Only point of it is to lead a zerg by leaving a trail several hundred yards behind it (like 1000 units) that was reasonably wide so any players on the trail get increased movement speed (like 50% so you could still use current methods and not be at a disadvantage). Beyond that, the only other use the thing has is to ‘charge’ at an enemy zerg and knock players down/away in its path. If it colides with any other siege it will destroy it in 1 hit and you can eject safely if you have the trait. So now you have a fast, agile golem that is there to help your zerg move around faster in a WvW world with no waypoints (or at least easy counters to waypoints) and can act as suicide bombers to counter omega golem rushes.

I suggested it months/years ago but I still think it could work…

What if there were pre-conditions on capturing structures?

For example, to capture SMC you would need to have a lord alive in each of your towers and your overlook on your side of the map. If they weren’t alive you could still siege SMC and even kill the lord, but you couldn’t actually capture the point.

As an attacker you would need to defend your own side because you need every lord in every tower and overlook to be alive. As a defender (of SMC) you need only send out a small group to kill a lord in any random tower or overlook to ensure the attackers can’t actually take SMC from you.

You could even expand this to make it so you can’t just go to an enemy borderland and immediately attack garrison, bay, or hills with a surprise golem rush. You’d actually have to take the south tower(s) before you took hills or bay. And you’d need either hills or bay and a northern tower before you could take garrison.

This way we would no longer need white swords at all (or way points imo) because you could see when an enemy force was actually attacking because you’d see your tower was taken and you’d be able to properly defend a higher value target.

This general idea could be expanded indefinitely as well. You could make it so you can’t take an enemy tower in their own borderland unless you owned 3 of your towers in EB. You couldn’t take SMC unless you have your bay, garrison, and hills, etc etc.

Just something to make attacking and defending more vital to the game mode.

Mobility in PvE isn’t a real issue and giving you the ability to replace 2 other classes isn’t fair for the other 2 classes.

Part of the problem is the damage just isn’t there and the other part is the utility that PvE players want isn’t provided by the Necromancer at all.

Since most PvE content revolves around a stationairy boss stuck in a corner while a stack of players is in front of it hammering away, you’d think the Necromancer would do well because of all the wells and marks, but it just doesn’t.

This is why I suggested what I did above… if they could find a way to allow Necros to dramaticaly increase well uptime without overpowering things in sPvP on points, you’d have enough sustain damage plus the perma 300hp/s would probably give you the utility you need to get invites.

Good news! We’re getting close to the end of this current 6 month patching cycle! By February we should have a balance patch available!

It’s the same with the Lich form’s skill. It appears to be related to the Z-axis in some fashion as non-stationairy targets that aren’t on the same, level ground, always seem to be missed.

Kontrolle.3514, I run havoc or solo roam until rally times where we run privately as a guild with 15 people on average and 30 people on reset nights. I don’t map queue. And still I have the same opinion… there’s simply no point behind WvW.

Deny it all you want, but you’re in the minority. Look at PvP, why do you think they have reward tracks now? Shouldn’t the act of PvPing be enough for the community? Should that community be happy with the 5% of the playerbase that plays it? Or do you think they’re happier with the much larger % that play it now due to the rewards?

The exact same thing has happened in WvW that was wrong with PvP. There was no point to do it other than boredom because there’s simply nothing else better to do. This is why the community has shrunk and continues to die off with each passing day. There’s nothing bringing new players in and there remains no reason to do WvW.

So as to your actual point… WvW needs new maps, new rulesets, and new life breathed into it. But it also needs proper rewards, and rewards are significantly easier to implement and will have a much larger impact in the short term than anything else ANet could do unless they have a map just sitting there waiting to be implemented.

Deep down we both know ANet has nothing in store for WvW though. Nothing in the works. Our only hope is going to be tied to loot. Or a new game that isn’t afraid to deliver on what WvW could have been.

The trait Spectral Attunement (Curses X) states spectral skills have longer duration and grant life force. However, this trait doesn’t increase the swiftness duration of Spectral Walk or the Chill duration on spectral grasp but does increase the protection duration of Spectral Armor?

Is it intended to only increase the effectiveness of the boons applied for one utility skill while ignoring the boons/conditions applied by another?

The Warhorn trait Banshee’s Wail (Curses VIII) at least specifically mentions the ‘effectiveness’ and is increasing boons and conditions.

Clarification would be nice.

At the very least allow it to work with Eagle Eye and Read the Wind. That would restore much of its range and really help with boosting the bleed procs on flanking shots.

oneply.9586:

why are rewards for killing so important to so many MMO players? isn’t winning enough of a reward?
i mean to me the biggest reward to WvW is that you get to do almost everything PvE and sPvP offer all in one area.

that being said, i do agree that home servers should have # of accounts/players capped. and to spread players out more i would say that all servers should have the same cap until the population becomes balanced on all of them.

Because there needs to be a point to the madness. There needs to be a goal to work toward. Simply winning is all we’ve done for the past 2.5 years in WvW and we’ve been losing players all this time.

Rewards bring fresh new players in. It ensures they continue to come in. These fresh new players may suck at first, but as time goes on they get better. Soon they realize their accomplishments matter. Soon they realize that for them to maximize their reward, they must maximize their efforts.

As it stands now the only people who bother with WvW anymore are likely the same people who are playing GW2 simply because there’s nothing better available. As better things become available how do you expect to attract new players and keep them when you have them do the same thing for 2.5 years for no reason whatsoever?

Kontrolle.3514:

Baldrick.8967:

It’s very simple- loot.

EoTm gives more badges, more loot, more karma by just following a train.

Silverwastes chests and events give so much loot it’s not even funny.

An hour in wvw and unless you play a spam 1 tag everything class you might see half a dozen bits of loot, compared to opening 20-30 chests, 30 events, 40 loot bags containing up to t6 mats, etc if you wonder around in Silverwastes.

I’m sure a lot more players would try wvw if it had more loot, even if they have totally failed to update it in two years.

Maybe ‘season 3’ should be a revision and new maps to wvw, with piles of achievement points available (won’t happen, but we can dream).

As it is there is almost no reason to carry on logging in to wvw apart from the occasional even fight, and it’s very clear that is the conclusion reached by the majority of players.

From all things the WvW needs, loot is none of it.

We need new maps, bigger maps and more ways to escape a megablob for 5-man groups. And jes, the last tier of servers should be merged.

The loot is how you get new players in. Everything you mentioned is how you retain the players that come.

Just needs a longer range. I’m not sure it has the same pathing issue as the Mesmer’s clone. I honestly don’t see the wolf miss that often except due to range limitations which are a byproduct of the long cast time. Which coincidently is a large problem with Ranger pets overall.

While I don’t agree with the OP’s suggestions, I certainly don’t agree that the Shortbow is fine as is. It’s quite a mediocre weapon and overlaps too much with the Axe mainhand.

It needs a burst skill, but not something at Rapid Fire’s level. I agree with the suggestion above where the skill does a fair amount of damage, but the purpose is for the skill to pair with Moment of Clarity.

You just got it! It’s TDM! Joy!

Half the classes in, half the classes out. That’s balance around these parts. On the plus side, we’re reaching the end of our current 6 month patch cycle! So maybe you’ll see change by February?

oneply.9586:

Dalwhat.2867:

people want to be Legolas

lol….thanks for an early morning laugh.

altho its never crossed my mind, wouldn’t you say that rangers are more like Aragorn? i mean he was called a ranger afterall. and the Rangers in Tolkien’s world were masters of multiple weapons. the only thing different is the pet.

Yes yes yes… Legolas was a soldier. We all know the drill. After watching the hobbit who wouldn’t want to be Legolas though!?

I still refuse to buy into the ‘stigma’ argument. To believe a class stigma would have a lasting real impact on how a guild recruited and ran an organized event just doesn’t hold up in my opinion.

There are some very ‘famous’ guilds playing (played) this game at a very competitive level in WvW/GvG/Guild Groups with players that are more than capable of judging a class’s worth without investing hundreds/thousands of hours into the class to figure out every nuance for themselves. In 2.5 years, they’ve never budged on their opinion of the class. The damage/utility/support/sustain is simply not something they’ve found useful. It’s more than just a stigma.

Take WoW for example. Everyone has heard the term Huntard. It was coined practically on day 1. I was a Hunter in a highly regarded raiding guild and got invited to 100% of raids during my entire lifetime with the guild. Now if I were the only Hunter in the guild I’d agree with you that player skill was the deciding factor and the huntard stigma was a reality. But I wasn’t, we routinely brought 3 to 5 Hunters. Contrast this to Warlocks which never had this stigma (only 3 very entertaining videos about how bad they were) and my brother never got invited to raids because Warlocks were awful for the first year or so of WoWs release (needed one for CoE and a guild officer’s girlfriend was a Warlock).

Our guild leader only ever played a Thief (and eventually a Paladin as we were Horde). We were a cutting edge guild that couldn’t wait for other guilds to build statistics, addons, and walkthroughs for content before we could progress. But somehow my guild leader in WoW could judge a class he never played patch after patch accurately to determine if they should be brought to a raid but in 2.5 years no single commander found a use for a Ranger in anything but sPvP? And even there it was more thanks to a condi/AI meta?

Just doesn’t make sense imo. It’s easier for me to believe the class has problems.

ps. I realize this is a PvE to PvP argument. I’d give a PvP to PvP argument but apparently I’m the only player willing to admit to playing Shadowbane for 2 years so no one would understand the reference.

Would giving Necromancers a trait that made their active well and mark duration increase by X second(s) each time they crit be overpowered? What if you limited it to crits while in deathshroud?

Would have an enormous impact on sustained damage while not having that large an impact in WvW because fights are very mobile and still leaves very easy counter play in PvP because you can just CC the necro’s life transfer which is the only skill that would really wrack up the timer because life blast has a long cast time.

In a perfect world a necro would drop Well of Suffering for 5 seconds. Life Transfer could up that an additional 9 (minus about 3 to 5 seconds to account for global cooldowns and the channel time) seconds and Life Blast spam could probably keep it active long enough for you to run out of Life Force. When you drop out the cooldown will be up and you’re ready to repeat once life force is full.

Just balance it so you can never have more than one active well of a single type up so people don’t manage to stack multiple wells on top of each other.

BlueBoy.1236:

Reborn.2934:

Atherakhia.4086:

Waypoints are now too large an advantage.

agree . also the siegerazers are too poor optimized on situations ….let see all together a very nice photo ( see the attachement ).

a server with their population is creating a waypoint on your keep and manage trolls you and the new wvw players all the day , because it is fun for them and sucks for your server people .

if this is not gamebreaking for new wvw players i can not imagine what means gamebreaking ….

ANET you want more people on wvw …. right ? fix first the issues and gamebreaking situations that make new players do not want play on wvw and after all fixes through your “grenades” in wvw ….. please

If they can troll you, why can’t you? It’s not like one server gets white sword and the other doesn’t. The only reason i see you lose your keep here is that your server is severely outnumbered or your server just doesn’t care abt wvw at all. EBG keep is the least affected wvw objective from this patch.

Once they get a waypoint they do have white swords. And given many servers have severe population disparity at different times of the day, if a night/sea/eu crew manages to waypoint your things (or keep the waypoints up on their own structures) they have a significant advantage over those without waypoints until their stuff actually goes down.

I don’t argue. Unfortunately, I agree with much of his (and many others) opinions on where the class falls behind and why it’s not found at a competetive level.

It’s a very strong roaming class but it really doesn’t have a role to fill in an organized group. Partly because the class needs improvements but also partly because the competing classes are simply too good and overshadow what the Ranger actually does do well.

Waypoints are now too large an advantage.

zapv.8051:

Boon corruption or transfer would be blatantly overpowered on something that lasts 20 seconds. Even removing 1 boon on 5 enemies a second would be stupidly strong.

True, but the #1 problem with this game atm is out of control boon stacking. So while overpowered, better boon management is something this game needs. If you do what the above poster said and reduce the cooldown to 60 seconds and the duration to 10 or 15 seconds, it may balance out better.

Another thing is what if both Plague and Lich form had a purpose beyond the form?

Change both to 60 second cooldown, 10 second duration.
Change both to give 10% life force a second.
Have both consume all remaining life force when cast to do something:
Lich could be something basic like a PBAE that did damage equal to some percentage of your remaining life force (like 25% of your remaining life force.

Plague could drop an invulnerable, stationairy clone of yourself that also cast what you cast while in plague form for X seconds where X was a percentage of your remaining life force (.05% for example). Only lasted so long as you were in plague (so max 10 seconds).

Warning in advance… I’ve only played the necromancer off and on for the past 6 months or so. I’m by no means an expert and a lot of my experience with the class is in WvW.

#1: I disagree with this premise because I disagree with the idea of healing while in DS. Ill explain below.

#2: I like the other approach you’re taking by allowing life steals to work unhindered (since they’re fairly weak still overall) and changing it so deathshroud just reduces the amount you’re healed. For example… why not just make it so death shroud puts 2 ‘buffs’ on you. The first reduces incoming healing by 50% and the second makes it so all healing (including life steal) is split between your base health and life force while in death shroud? So this way effectively 50% of life steal procs and 25% of normal healing/regen will go to you and the other 50/25% goes toward life force?

#3: Lock the heal, even with the above suggestion, but release the rest. Especially the elite. There’s tons of times I wish I could go from DS immediately to plague because I will die immediately when leaving shroud.

#4: I agree. I think Necromancers should gain stability when entering deathshroud and foot in the grave should grant it again when leaving. Considering the overwhelming lack of escapes/mobility, the necromancer should be quite sturdy by default.

Now as to the general issues discussed… I don’t really find an issue with Deathshroud or tying so much importance to it for the class (but again, I’m not as experienced as most of you). I think it just needs to be more powerful and have a larger impact when you do use it.

For example… the Fear from deathshroud shouldn’t be single target. It should do an AE fear centered on your target when struck or ‘nova’ after the fear ends on that target triggering a PBAE fear so the skill is more reliable as an escape tool.

Alternatively(in addition to), Dhuumfire should be a PBAE knockback+burn when leaving deathshroud instead of the current mechanic.

Lastly, why not just change dark path to a 600 or 900 range leap like a Warrior’s sword #2 skill? If it lands, you do an AE chill and bleed.

I’m also curious why Deathshroud seems to favor power builds more than condi builds? I understand the premise that the point is for condis to work while you’re safe in deathshroud, but there’s just not enough to do other than sit there if you go complete condi spec. Is this just my inexperience talking? I feel like I just use #5 for the torment, #4 just cause, and spam auto because it’s there.

Having played in tier8, 3, and now 2… I can assure you that everyone does it

Wasted SoS numerous times ‘doing my job’ because of retal.

Yup, Ranger trap is certainly better for chilling. Longer duration etc. But the well also blinds and is still on a Necro whereas the Frost trap is still on the Ranger.

In WvW, diversity really isn’t a deciding factor for most commanders. Everyone would rather have a 10th hammer warrior, 10th guardian, 10th elementalist, or 10th necromancer before their first Ranger unfortunately.

They’d probably prefer a 1st Thief, Engi, or Mesmer before their 1st Ranger as well unfortunately.

If you’ve managed to win an argument with your guild leader to bring a Ranger over a meta class for either a guild run or GvG let me know how you did it! Better Rangers than I have tried. No ranger policy still in place 2.5 years and counting.