Guild Wars 2

They need to ignore the people worried about server pride and just merge the WvW servers already. Or just turn them all into EotM style maps and call it a day.

The top 6, maybe 9 servers have a playerbase large enough to play WvW the way it was meant to be.

Are turrets for engineers designed to at least have the turrets shoot the target you’re selecting? Would this minimal amount of control be out of line?

The wiki’s cast times aren’t reliable. Users often put remarks with the total time. Otherwise you’ll have to record it and measure the time yourself.

If you’re specifically looking for the Reaper, Spoj made a post a ways back I believe with the values.

And it being impossible from a practical standpoint is why theoretical dps spreadsheets carry so much weight here. And those theoretical samples tend to go the other way… that the Reaper isn’t a significant improvement over the Necromancer, and that the DPS and utility provided isn’t competitive with the other 8 classes.

It’s a shame too as it would take no effort for ANet to dump the combat log to a data file.

Would simply applying chill when entering death/reaper shroud to a minor trait alleviate the problem of lackluster minor traits for non-greatsword builds?

I don’t see too much discussion on what the current raid group was made of. The discussion has always been about what the Necro/Reaper brings and what, if anything, sets it apart from the other 8 classes.

No one cares that Necro is capable of 20k DPS for 10 seconds. The question is what is its sustained DPS over a 1minute period. And where does it rank with other classes over a similar period.

Yea, I agree with Anchoku I think. The cooldown is short enough where it’s not really needed. Personally, I think they need to change it so it’s more valuable in a single target scenario. Especially since the Necro does such a poor job at stacking offensive conditions on its own.

For example, Epidemic could double the current stack of condis on your selected target but spread the original stack to up to 5 surrounding targets.

If balance is a concern they could limit the number of stacks to 15 on the original target or only double bleeds, torments, and poison or something along those lines.

Sazaraki.1970:

I at least somewhat agree with Cogbyrn. You can’t expect chill’s slow effect to work on bosses because it is too easy to keep it up 100% of the time. They do need to have situations where chill’s CC will be helpful though. Along with other CC like immobilize and cripple.

If that were a concern why not just increase boss attack speed across the board by 33%? I know he was being facetious but this is a reasonable option.

Well that’s what a wiki is for…

They remove 1 boon every 2.5 seconds. Most encounters this is enough as bosses tend not to spam boons. The class also has alternative ways to boonstrip if need be. Plus there’s the added benefit of multiple mesmers etc.

Like I said, in encounters where a boss gains tons of boons instantly on a regular interval, the Necro is great. Not so much when boons trickle in like they currently do.

roachsrealm.9284:

um. necro shouldn’t be the top tier DPS. the damage you can crank out of them is amazing, but it should not be top tier.

the difference is, none of the other top tier condi DPS builds can heal themselves while doing damage. Necro is about sustaining and efficiency, not burst, and always has been.

Pressure, pressure, pressure. Battle grease. Necromancer is simply less risk in a glass cannon fight.

Also: are all these numbers taking into account life stealing?

I have no idea what you’re talking about.

Burst damage means nothing in encounters (at least generally speaking. In GW2 it means a lot due to poor content design)… it’s the sustain. This is something you’re saying the Necro should be good at, but its sustained DPS is well below that of other classes.

No one cares if you burst 20k dps instantly and then do 1k dps for the next 10 seconds or you do 3k damage a second. The result is the same. 3k DPS.

There are 2 things that matter in a group… utility and DPS. The more of one you have the less of the other you should have to keep things balanced and ensure each class has value to a group.

Typically, utility is broken down into sections like tanking, healing, and buffs/debuffs. In GW2, things have worked a little different over the past 3 years but ANet appears to be abandoning their original design philosophy and going with a more generic trinity approach.

So unless Necro/Reaper turns into a main tank in a game with no real agro mechanic and on a class with no control over their pets in an AE spam world, the Necro provides next to no utility. This should, therefore, justify higher than average DPS… be it burst or sustained.

Lynnie.7213:

From what i’ve seen about this first raid boss, necros are not necessary and can be easily replaced. I wish the others bosses have mechanics that make necros really wanted.
Like a consistent boon removal. We can have that every 5 sec with RS#2.

Mesmer can have that with their auto attack…

The only way boon removal would benefit the Necro would be if a boss got 5+ boons at the same time every 30 seconds.

Lemondish.3268:

hazenvirus.8154:

Reaper brings little support, so the only reason to take them to Dungeons, Fractals, Raids, in PvE is dps. Dps needs to be one of the things that defines Reaper compared to other classes, in a party, or we will always be last pick for PvE content.

I don’t think this is a legitimate concern at this stage.

Raids may be coming to GW2, but this constant fear mongering that a whole class will be left out because of a culture of min/max doesn’t need to come with it. For one, that level of ridiculous exclusion is not something that will benefit anybody but the world first guilds. It’s not the kit that will determine your group’s success, it’s how you use it.

We know of very few fights in the raids. Those that we do know about include mechanics that we’ve never seen before in GW2’s PvE content. The value of any profession in this content cannot be accurately predicted at this time.

I’d be less concerned if this same exact stuff wasn’t happening now…

Warscythes.9307:

Honestly I am too lazy to do the math, but I wouldn’t be surprised if greatsword auto does similar damage compared to dagger when above 50%.

However if this true, it essentially allows the reaper to stick just to gs only for damage. Before I believe the best dps weapon sets was essentially dagger spam->gravedigger when below 50 which means your weapon sets were locked to gs and dagger/warhorn for the most part.

This allow weapons sets like axe to be considered taking for the boon strip on blue and ranged damage when standing on the field.

Well dagger has the benefit of providing off-hand options. Locust Swarm for example is something like .66 DPS base which brings dagger up to 2.0. Gravedigger spam at 50% and below is only 1.5.

But again, this is me doing math quickly.

Warscythes.9307:

Atherakhia.4086:

Vydahr.4285:

Atherakhia.4086:

I’m not sure the sub 50% theory is even true. Gravedigger alone only does 15% more damage than dagger auto attack does. Dagger auto does 10% more damage than greatsword auto attack but also gives you access to horn off hand which effectively makes it a wash.

So that means you’ll be dagger auto with locust for the first 50% and swap to gravedigger for the remaining 50%? If you chose to go reaper at all?

Has anyone bothered to plot any of this in excel?

Actually, GS auto has higher power scaling, so theoretically, you could be doing higher DPS if you’re hitting with it (but, yeah…. hitting with it…..)

It’s true, Greatsword has higher coefficients so each attack hits harder. But remember there’s a time component in there too. So while each hit is harder, you hit far less often over time.

For example:

Dagger:
Attack 1: 0.9
Attack 2: 0.7
Attack 3: 1.2
TOTAL COEFF: 2.8
Time: 2.1s
DPS: 1.33

Greatsword:
Attack 1: 1.0
Attack 2: 1.2
Attack 3: 1.4
TOTAL COEFF: 3.6
Time: 3.0s
DPS: 1.2

That’s a difference of ~10% in favor of dagger.

Doesn’t greatsword do about 10%~ more due to 2h weapon damage is higher?

Yes, you’re correct. 10% more in fact. But like I said, I did this math in 5 seconds. If someone wants to actually chart this stuff out I’m willing to help. But I’m not convinced reaper pulls away from base necro at a large enough rate to place it above the other classes it wasn’t already above.

Yes, if you’re in a situation where you’re always hitting 3 targets instead of 2 you’ll be doing better DPS. But the majority of content in this game is you hitting a single target. Even the new raid encounters were largely single target encounters, right?

Aomine.5012:

Atherakhia.4086:

Aomine.5012:

Atherakhia.4086:

Drarnor Kunoram.5180:

Cogbyrn.7283:

If the break bar didn’t absorb cripple, chill, weakness, and immob, would the conversation just switch to “Necros don’t apply <insert key condition for a particular fight> as well as <insert some other class>”?

Is there any merit to Necromancer being able to potentially fill multiple holes in a potentially changing encounter/raid environment?

Is it possible that debuffing capabilities will be a special consideration on certain fights, just not the one that is currently on display?

The only one of those conditions Necros don’t apply as well or better than anyone else is Immobilize. Cripple, Chill, and Weakness, we’re top tier on applying and maintaining.

Necro’s self-sufficiency may come into play in some encounters, but for what we have right now, it’s just not a thing to be valued. The profession is versatile, sure, but so is every other profession.

And as long as break bars absorb those debuffs and appear on every boss? Not a chance of them being useful.

Is this even true though?

A ranger provides perpetual cripple via auto attack on their highest DPS weapon. Thieves provide 50% uptime on weakness from auto attacking. Even chill, unless you use greatsword (which I assume is a poor option given its DPS?) is done equally well by Rangers?

So even if debuffs weren’t impacted by breakbars the utility you mention isn’t that short in supply and is provided by classes capable of more damage with no sacrifice.

One-hand sword of ranger locks you in one place, which is horrible.

I really dislike using it, but sad thing is main-hand axe is so weak to use.
It’s really not worth comparing, because in generally it’s an awful weapon in contents you actually need to dodge.. Also one-hand sword 2~3 does next to no damage.

Also ranger’s axe’s chill has super low duration, and frost trap is such a terrible utility that no-one bother to use it. Donnu why you can compare ranger’s chill with Reaper’s.

Really, I rather get a new range one-hand weapon for ranger than that staff…

One more thing, Reaper does way more damage than ranger without smokescale (that pet is OP currently, and will get a nerf anyway). Go test the damage of ranger yourself and see. Druid makes the dps even worse.

Already tested Ranger damage. It’s higher than Necro and it brings more utility. Sword provides the cripple and owl provides 50% chill up time with their actual PvE build. Thief can provide weakness with their actual PvE build.

The only point I was trying to make was the debuff utility the Necro supposedly specializes in isn’t rare or meaningful enough to warrant a Necro getting a slot. Other classes provide enough without sacrificing utility or build and those classes would likely be taken in multiples in a raid simply because they provide a DPS premium whereas Necro is still low tier in DPS and missing tier in utility.

Are you comparing to REAPER or regular Necro?

Unfortunately you can’t use REAPER right now, but I tested, the damage is way higher than melee ranger. (Range ranger has even lower dps). You have to combine with shroud and gravedigger and self might/ vulnerability.

Also shouts are actually good utilities. Go check glyphs on druid and see.

I’ve only done very basic math on Necromancer because I had no interest in playing it for the better part of 2 years. It’s only about the past year I started playing. But Ranger I’ve done the math on.

Things to keep in mind though is dagger is still higher DPS than greatsword auto attack. Dagger + Locust does about the same damage as grave digger. So really Reaper isn’t going to be pulling away from base Necro all that well just from doing very quick math.

Perhaps others who are more vested could provide better numbers.

Vydahr.4285:

Atherakhia.4086:

I’m not sure the sub 50% theory is even true. Gravedigger alone only does 15% more damage than dagger auto attack does. Dagger auto does 10% more damage than greatsword auto attack but also gives you access to horn off hand which effectively makes it a wash.

So that means you’ll be dagger auto with locust for the first 50% and swap to gravedigger for the remaining 50%? If you chose to go reaper at all?

Has anyone bothered to plot any of this in excel?

Actually, GS auto has higher power scaling, so theoretically, you could be doing higher DPS if you’re hitting with it (but, yeah…. hitting with it…..)

It’s true, Greatsword has higher coefficients so each attack hits harder. But remember there’s a time component in there too. So while each hit is harder, you hit far less often over time.

For example:

Dagger:
Attack 1: 0.9
Attack 2: 0.7
Attack 3: 1.2
TOTAL COEFF: 2.8
Time: 2.1s
DPS: 1.33

Greatsword:
Attack 1: 1.0
Attack 2: 1.2
Attack 3: 1.4
TOTAL COEFF: 3.6
Time: 3.0s
DPS: 1.2

That’s a difference of ~10% in favor of dagger.

The problem is this game has had no defined roles for 3 years and now for some reason we’re seeing only a single specialization focused so heavily in a single area to actually create the game’s sole ‘trinity’ class.

No one is saying Druid needed to top healing and damage, but the line should at least synergize with other trait lines and weapons so it’s attractive to players who don’t want to be a primary healer.

As an example, they could have easily made staff and astral form provide strong utility type spells and left damage completely out of it and turned the line into a healing/control type build. At least this way the line would compliment the other 5 lines available and synergize with weapons other than staff.

Irenio CalmonHuang.2048:

There’ll be more supportive damage for Celestial Avatar by launch… possibly from trait modifications or from skill changes.

An issue which should not be decoupled here is that Celestial Avatar felt gated behind staff use (and troll unguent), which left a ranger with one damage-focused weapon option and one support weapon. I’m making some changes to astral force rate gain to try to address this. Ideally it should be possible to build up your astral force without -needing- to run staff, but running staff should speed up the process by nature of the heals it provides. This would yield the option of running two non-staff weapons while still having Celestial Avatar available.

Celestial Avatar healing is the best available by a decent margin right now. One issue that came up is that the healing coefficients are so insignificant that running with healing stats yields very little reward.

The best healing in the game being available without using any healing power; this is not good for the game.

The berserker meta not be the only consideration requires that other stat combinations be rewarding.

Being able to run two more damage-focused weapons (if that’s your thing) and still have Celestial Avatar available should address some of your offensive concerns if you want to play a bit more offensively as a hybrid. If you want to focus on being the top offense then you probably shouldn’t be selecting the Druid specialization.

That’s all I’m going to say on the subject for now (though I will continue to read constructive feedback here and elsewhere) as there is plenty to be done in order to address these and other issues. /me ducks back to work on Scrapper and Druid.

Do any of the other specializations come with a ‘you probably shouldn’t play me’ label? It doesn’t seem right to force the Druid so heavily into a support/healing role and leave no other options for it to explore.

Is there no way you can split the load between staff and astral form so both at least compliment a condi build in some fashion or perhaps provide enough utility (immobs, blinds, cripples, etc) so a power build would consider the build? Not even the traits really help outside of healing or synergize with the other trait lines all that well (even when considering healing/regen).

I’m not sure the sub 50% theory is even true. Gravedigger alone only does 15% more damage than dagger auto attack does. Dagger auto does 10% more damage than greatsword auto attack but also gives you access to horn off hand which effectively makes it a wash.

So that means you’ll be dagger auto with locust for the first 50% and swap to gravedigger for the remaining 50%? If you chose to go reaper at all?

Has anyone bothered to plot any of this in excel?

Aomine.5012:

Atherakhia.4086:

Drarnor Kunoram.5180:

Cogbyrn.7283:

If the break bar didn’t absorb cripple, chill, weakness, and immob, would the conversation just switch to “Necros don’t apply <insert key condition for a particular fight> as well as <insert some other class>”?

Is there any merit to Necromancer being able to potentially fill multiple holes in a potentially changing encounter/raid environment?

Is it possible that debuffing capabilities will be a special consideration on certain fights, just not the one that is currently on display?

The only one of those conditions Necros don’t apply as well or better than anyone else is Immobilize. Cripple, Chill, and Weakness, we’re top tier on applying and maintaining.

Necro’s self-sufficiency may come into play in some encounters, but for what we have right now, it’s just not a thing to be valued. The profession is versatile, sure, but so is every other profession.

And as long as break bars absorb those debuffs and appear on every boss? Not a chance of them being useful.

Is this even true though?

A ranger provides perpetual cripple via auto attack on their highest DPS weapon. Thieves provide 50% uptime on weakness from auto attacking. Even chill, unless you use greatsword (which I assume is a poor option given its DPS?) is done equally well by Rangers?

So even if debuffs weren’t impacted by breakbars the utility you mention isn’t that short in supply and is provided by classes capable of more damage with no sacrifice.

One-hand sword of ranger locks you in one place, which is horrible.

I really dislike using it, but sad thing is main-hand axe is so weak to use.
It’s really not worth comparing, because in generally it’s an awful weapon in contents you actually need to dodge.. Also one-hand sword 2~3 does next to no damage.

Also ranger’s axe’s chill has super low duration, and frost trap is such a terrible utility that no-one bother to use it. Donnu why you can compare ranger’s chill with Reaper’s.

Really, I rather get a new range one-hand weapon for ranger than that staff…

One more thing, Reaper does way more damage than ranger without smokescale (that pet is OP currently, and will get a nerf anyway). Go test the damage of ranger yourself and see. Druid makes the dps even worse.

Already tested Ranger damage. It’s higher than Necro and it brings more utility. Sword provides the cripple and owl provides 50% chill up time with their actual PvE build. Thief can provide weakness with their actual PvE build.

The only point I was trying to make was the debuff utility the Necro supposedly specializes in isn’t rare or meaningful enough to warrant a Necro getting a slot. Other classes provide enough without sacrificing utility or build and those classes would likely be taken in multiples in a raid simply because they provide a DPS premium whereas Necro is still low tier in DPS and missing tier in utility.

In the other thread it has a 2second total activation time. Which means it has a DPS coeff of 1.5. This means it only does 15% more damage than dagger auto attack.

Silverkey.2078:

I don’t know if you’re aware of this, but the world first did include a reaper. However, that does not mean it was needed, but at least it works

From what I hear the raids were disabled for all of a few hours to begin with and the encounter was defeated. If this is true, I’d be more concerned with the encounter just being SIGNIFICANTLY undertuned.

Drarnor Kunoram.5180:

Cogbyrn.7283:

If the break bar didn’t absorb cripple, chill, weakness, and immob, would the conversation just switch to “Necros don’t apply <insert key condition for a particular fight> as well as <insert some other class>”?

Is there any merit to Necromancer being able to potentially fill multiple holes in a potentially changing encounter/raid environment?

Is it possible that debuffing capabilities will be a special consideration on certain fights, just not the one that is currently on display?

The only one of those conditions Necros don’t apply as well or better than anyone else is Immobilize. Cripple, Chill, and Weakness, we’re top tier on applying and maintaining.

Necro’s self-sufficiency may come into play in some encounters, but for what we have right now, it’s just not a thing to be valued. The profession is versatile, sure, but so is every other profession.

And as long as break bars absorb those debuffs and appear on every boss? Not a chance of them being useful.

Is this even true though?

A ranger provides perpetual cripple via auto attack on their highest DPS weapon. Thieves provide 50% uptime on weakness from auto attacking. Even chill, unless you use greatsword (which I assume is a poor option given its DPS?) is done equally well by Rangers?

So even if debuffs weren’t impacted by breakbars the utility you mention isn’t that short in supply and is provided by classes capable of more damage with no sacrifice.

Well post your power, what weapon you’re using, if it’s exotic/ascended, and we can figure this out.

mistsim.2748:

so bring axes down to 600 and make them mega strong? I’m down for that, but theyre gonna need some serious work.

So make it work much in the same way vapor blades does? Instead of bounce they just pass through and return? That can’t be too difficult.

Just making them a melee range attack and the third attack you throw the axe in a circular path in front of you would be cool too. Especially if they could make it so if you have an axe in your off hand you throw 2 axes in a circular path in front of you kind of like a figure 8. Would be neat.

I’d love the Shortbow to go back to being a true hybrid weapon so it could function in a power role as well as a condi role. The most (and to be truthful, only) fun I had with the Ranger class was shortly after release when the attacks were faster, longer, and did more power damage. The other skills were mostly utility to help with kiting and control and it was a very dynamic and engaging way to play. The class has never been that fun since.

The problem with the Shortbow is the axe. They have the same range, very similar attacks, and due to the offhand, the axe can be pushed toward a condi, power, or utility playstyle. To make Shortbow stand out for the class may require changes to the Axe too. I really do think Infantrydiv is on the right track for both weapons.

If you make Axe #1 a melee chain that is more condi oriented and simply increase the damage on Shortbow #1 and increase its range somewhere, you’ll return Shortbow to the way it was at launch and make Axe and Shortbow very distinct weapons.

Alternatively, you make Axe #1 more of a melee power oriented chain with perhaps a twirl finisher on the final attack and you make it a utility/power weapon but still strong on condi builds while still allowing Shortbow to be a strong, distinct condi weapon.

Either approach is good but it’s important to broaden the gap in playstyle/utility of axe and shortbow without causing a problem with axe stepping on sword’s toes (which it shouldn’t since sword is a evasive melee weapon).

Bad Cabbage would be the name of mine.

I have no interest in being a healer which basically leaves me no real trait variety in the druid line. Just the condi cleanse trait, the movement trait, and the stun one. And these have more of a utility/condi focus. Would have been nice to see a heal/power/condi type approach to the traits.

Staff I only have a couple issues with on a theory level and can’t say much more without playing it. But I’d like to see #3 also deal damage. Either power oriented damage or perhaps drop a burn. I’d also like #4 to apply a bleed. Many of the other ‘vine’ attacks the Ranger has cause bleed so it seems fitting for this attack to also bleed the opponent.

Astral is the same way. I would like it to deal damage even if it is slight. A short duration burn on #1 or small power damage. #2 exploding with a poison field. Just as possible examples.

Tim.6450:

Question is: is self healing not considered damage absorbtion? Because if yes the biggest difference with death shroud is the focus on healing compared to the focus on “damage”, I would not consider it enough to justify the lack of utilities and ally healling.

That’s honestly a pretty interesting way to look at it. I honestly didn’t consider that. You will run into the whole ‘overheal’ issue that limits the healing of Druid over the Necro shroud, but you still make a great point.

Olcon.9506:

I’m wondering if all the people complaining even watched the same stream I did. For YEARS all this subforum has complained about is “we’re not in the meta”, “we don’t have a place”, “people don’t want us because we’re a selfish class”, “the devs don’t listen to us”, “we’re bogged down by our pets” etc. etc. ad infinium.

The Druid gives the Ranger legitimate group support across multiple game modes and is frankly probably the best elite specialization they’ve revealed. They truly did save the best for last. You don’t even need to take the staff, you can spec into Druid for the celestial mode (WHICH IS A BRAND SPANKING NEW CLASS MECHANIC NOT BOGGED DOWN BY YOUR PET HELLO IS ANYONE THERE?) and give yourself crazy amounts of healing that’s affected by your traits WHILE you continue to carry two weapon sets and two other trait lines to help those weapon sets or your pet.

???

What are you guys even complaining about? I see this and I see my ranger taking his longbow, axe/torch, sword/dagger whatever into a dungeon, laying down dps (which Irenio said does fill the celestial bar so you’re not locked into healbot btw) , and then seeing “oh kitten that thief over there is getting pretty low on hp lemme just HEAL HIM BACK TO FULL HEALTH real quick!”, switch over to your God of Healing™ class mechanic and then make him good as new. Then you switch out of your celestial mode after topping off everyone else in the group because why the hell not, and go back to being a ranger and outputting a not-insubstantial amount of dps, which is further complimented by your new smokescale literally teleporting around the battlefield, during which it can’t be affected by AoE.

And then, to top it all off, the developer that designed this legitimately overpowered specialization outright declares the death of the berserker meta at the hands of the Druid, announces that he’s been reading and taking note of the ranger forum’s criticisms for probably the last year (!!!!), and says he can’t wait to put down a red thread and interact with you guys, and that further details about the future of the base ranger class will be discussed later on during the balance segment of the presentation.

And all you guys do is say kitten like

Atherakhia.4086:

What this change did was effectively removed Rangers from the game.

I answered your ‘why’ question in my post…

Trinity roles are highly polarized. Everyone wants to be a DPS class, but few want to tank or heal. You can’t take a game that for 3 years has told players they can do everything and then shove the ’you’re a primary healer now, suck it up’ card down their throat.

That’s the complaint I, and I’m sure others have.

Substance E.4852:

According to Dulfy these are without any stats so the skills may end up doing respectable damage in the live environment.

If that’s the case then Astral Whip would do 60% more damage than maul. So that’s nice

If they would make Astral Grace do AE damage to enemies and heal allies that would be great as well. Even if it’s non-critical and does 1470 damage or something.

At least this way you’ve given the staff a role for non-healing builds.

Their shroud doesn’t block damage though right?

I don’t know if giving Necros their utility skills in shroud would be overpowered or not. I do know that simply allowing us to see them and their remaining cooldown wouldn’t though. At the very least can you do this…

rabidsmiles.5926:

I am amused with the amount of complaints going on here about being a heal-bot and not being able to PEW PEW away in a dungeon/raid/where ever. Guys…we HAD NO PLACE before…we were taken because no one else would fill a slot. Now we should have a slot and rightfully so. We won’t be the joke profession any more and I am thrilled with that! Some players enjoy playing a healing profession and now we get the option to. If you want to still run around with your bow and bear and pew pew your heart out go for it…but don’t try to spoil the new toys for the rest of us!

That’s part of the problem though. The trinity roles are highly polarized. Everyone wants to be DPS, but few want to actually tank. Fewer still want to be a healer. It was this premise that made GW2 so successful because they didn’t deal with these roles. They designed every class to do everything.

Unfortunately they did a horrible job balancing classes so you had things like Necromancers being useless or Rangers having no defined role or purpose for years on end. But at the end of the day, every class could do everything.

What this change did was effectively removed Rangers from the game. You will now be a Druid or you can go home. They need to dramatically scale back the Druid’ healing while significantly improving its offensive capabilities while at the same time improve the healing for the Revnant, Elementalist, and Guardian. This way you spread the healing responsibility better and a player could quickly switch to another attunement/weapon/legend/astral form to heal and then go back to doing what ANet has been telling them they should be doing for 3 years… everything.

LOL…

What better class could this have happened to than the one with no purpose or identity for 3 years. This is absolutely laughable.

I especially love the ’you’ll need a healer in HOT’ stuff. This game doesn’t need a ‘THE’ class at all. If you wanted to make healing important then expand the healing of some classes. You don’t make a ‘go healer or go home’ class.

I haven’t played beta at all so I’ll reserve judgement for release. But I could see where the weapon could feel boring. The attacks don’t really compliment one another.

I still think the Ranger’s Greatsword is the most ‘fun’ weapon in the game. The attacks works by themselves but also can be chained together and the weapon actually compliments several other weapons the class has.

Greatsword really does kind of look like a ‘just use it off cooldown’ type weapon. But again, I haven’t actually used it so I’ll find out in a month.

Lily.1935:

Atherakhia.4086:

We’ve also seen raids where people all pile onto a single spot in raids in other games.

But even if we are to assume groups need to split up, they’ll likely still be split up into small camps of people as opposed to lone players each standing outside of range of one another. In this situation you make Necromancers even less useful because now the raid needs multiples of the same classes that provide more utility at the expense of raw DPS.

Necromancers have no utility AND low damage. Short of there being some niche encounter that is specifically designed to align with the limited utility the class does provide, things aren’t likely to be any better in HOT. Certainly not for those who choose to play Necro over Reaper.

except we don’t have low damage. That’s a myth which has been busted multiple times. Our burst is low, yes this is true but our sustained damage is extremely good. And, not only that Vulnerability far more valuable to a party than might is in terms of providing damage. This is just a fact we can show this with the mathematics.

The reaper can stack vulnerability like no other profession I’ve seen. And actually sustain it. Not even my engineer does that well in stacking it or as quickly. Will Scrapper be able to stack it just as well as reaper? That is yet to be scene. The answer to that is maybe.

However, the necromancer has more than just vulnerability they can use. They also have some of the most potent boon stripping in the game. Which only the mesmer compares to in that regard.

In raids we are expected to use all of our tools and all of our mechanics. So I fully expect to have to use skills like “Nothing can save you” in PvE. You also have to remember that Chill actually causes the defiance bar to degenerate. That is absolutely huge! Thats going to be a major factor against bosses who might have quick regenerating and/or heard to break defiance. And considering that the reaper can both apply a whole bunch of chill and sustain it on their own while at the same time dishing out a heap of damage and being capable of surviving a boss’s focus fire while doing it, I see major value in the necromancer.

And also, unless you’re planning to run something like, 5 phalanx warriors in your raid my point stills stands. And if you are actually planning that I’d say you’re silly and wasting your time.

PS: Pre-buffing will be virtually useless.

If it’s been debunked, they’re keeping it to themselves because I’ve certainly never seen anything to disprove Necromancer isn’t bottom tier in damage. If someone wants to post what a proper Necro/Reaper rotation is or if you want to link your proof then so be it. But from very basic math it looks like the Necromancer’s overall DPS is 160% of their power a second when not considering things like Frost Bow and the like (assuming a 3min sample to account for Lich DPS). But again, that’s with me putting about 2mins of effort into figuring it out and not knowing the proper rotation.

I’m also very worried when the only things you can list for Necromancer utility is vulnerability, boon stripping, and chill. Rangers can do 2 of those things just as well if not better while providing significantly more utility and stronger DPS. The only time a Necromancer’s boonstripping would be more valuable than a Mesmers is if they design encounters specifically around casting 5+ boons every 30 – 45 seconds. Otherwise Mesmer wins just like now.

Now as for predicting future raid content from ANet given their poor delivery of PvE content up till this point is a waste of time. Their classes aren’t sufficiently diverse and their decision to drop the ‘holy trinity’ really limits their options. All we know is going into HOT the Necromancer is quite poor and the Reaper hasn’t gained enough from what we’ve seen to level the playing field. I’m not going to rest my hopes and dreams on Reaper viability on ANets ability to get PvE Raid content right.

It’s clear the OP never got anywhere in a trinity game.

There’s plenty of skill on both an individual and team level in games that utilize the trinity and those that don’t. The main advantage trinity games have is they aren’t as limited to content and class design. You don’t need to ensure every class can do everything. You don’t need to design encounters that are overly scripted.

The reason PvE is a failure in GW2 isn’t because it doesn’t have the trinity, it’s because it has poor developers.

We’ve also seen raids where people all pile onto a single spot in raids in other games.

But even if we are to assume groups need to split up, they’ll likely still be split up into small camps of people as opposed to lone players each standing outside of range of one another. In this situation you make Necromancers even less useful because now the raid needs multiples of the same classes that provide more utility at the expense of raw DPS.

Necromancers have no utility AND low damage. Short of there being some niche encounter that is specifically designed to align with the limited utility the class does provide, things aren’t likely to be any better in HOT. Certainly not for those who choose to play Necro over Reaper.

If you’re going to improve utility for the class, it should probably be oriented around group utility so the class can justify having such poor DPS and still compete for group slots in competitive parties.

Lets not forget chill should affect initiative regen!

Malachi Draven.2865:

You guys are wasting your breath. You’re forgetting the very important statement made by Anet that they want raids to work with ANY group composition. They don’t want any required classes, which also means that every class is viable.

Basically, you guys are expecting these raids to be waaaay tougher than they actually will be. Reaper or not, selfish dps or not, you can play whatever class you have the most fun with and you’ll be fine. I guarantee you there will never be a situation where a raid wipes and somebody thinks “I bet we died because we brought the Reaper…”.

You’ve described the game as it is right now. Dungeons being 10 man isn’t going to make things any different.

We’re living in a world right now where ‘No Necros’ or ‘No Rangers’ or ‘Ele only’ is a real thing.

Large group play and zerging, the class provides wells for strong AE burst.

Small scale group play the Necro is the one that comes pre-shot in the leg so your group can escape while you’re eaten by the ravenous horde.

I feel like some of you are underplaying what the class is capable of while others are overplaying what it can do.

Necromancer second best at control? Not likely. Ranger is far better at this role while also dealing substantially more damage AND providing worthwhile group utility to boot.

Ranged Boon Removal being a thing? While you’re right that this is the one real niche the Necromancer will fit in, the only way this will be viable is if bosses are designed to only reboon once every 30 seconds. If they work the way they do now with steadily stacking boons and such, Mesmer will always be more valuable regardless of its range.

The Necromancer is not in a very good place right now and overselling what it can do to fit hypothetical PvE scenarios that don’t exist and are easily circumvented does far more harm than good.

Midline is effectively what the Necro does currently though in a zerg. Playing a midline melee with no engage or range isn’t productive and continuing on wit the current playstyle doesn’t exactly show the Reaper is effective.

Now unfortunately I haven’t played the class as I refuse to pre-order and I’m still on the fence about getting HOT at all, but some of the other players have said the class is suitably tanky in large scale combat so it may just require a little more effort on your part to get used to the new ‘ins and outs’ of the class.

Mind sharing your build and gear as that may shed some light on the problems you were having? Obviously running in with Spite/SR/Reaper in full berserker isn’t going to work as well as it currently does.

Hopefully it’s more along these lines and less about poor class design.

Sigmoid.7082:

D best.3547:

skill coeficient*power is what appears on the skill tooltip.

All tooltips show:
Skill coeff*power*average weapon damage/2600

as 2600 is armour of a heavy golem.

This is correct. The wiki assumes a base power of 916 iirc as well. That’s where its damage comes from.

silvermember.8941:

Atherakhia.4086:

Jerus.4350:

Atherakhia.4086:

Jerus.4350:

SneakyTouchy.6043:

Looks like 2 kinds of people in this thread. Those saying the length is an eyesore that makes them feel uncomfortable, and those that simply like it.

Interestingly, had this weapon been 2x the height of a character instead of 4x to begin with, I don’t think any of these current likers would be making threads about how it’s too small.

The physics, realism and reach don’t matter. The aesthetic appearance of this weapon in it’s standing form is awful, enough for a ton of people asking it to be adjusted. It should be adjusted.

I think you’d be right if it weren’t for one thing. The length matches the radius of the strike.

I can’t tell you how frustrated I get when The Ettin hits me with his pudgy cudgel from 3X it’s length away from him. I think the practicality of an animation matching the effect is quite an important thing in a game.

Is the scythe goofy long? yup, is the entire shroud kinda goofy/kitten, yup. Doesn’t bother me. I’m far more bothered by all the gaudy items in the game.

They could easily just add a green ‘swoosh’ to the outside of each reaper attack to show the actual range. That would be a far better alternative to the current option imo.

So we’re asking for realistic and we’re saying “ohh it’s some weird shockwave effect” ok…

I never asked for realistic. A scythe in general isn’t a realistic weapon. I’m asking for it to not look goofy.

You think it looks goofy and I think it looks kitten, you see how that works?

Right, and you’re wrong. See how that works?

Jerus.4350:

Atherakhia.4086:

Jerus.4350:

SneakyTouchy.6043:

Looks like 2 kinds of people in this thread. Those saying the length is an eyesore that makes them feel uncomfortable, and those that simply like it.

Interestingly, had this weapon been 2x the height of a character instead of 4x to begin with, I don’t think any of these current likers would be making threads about how it’s too small.

The physics, realism and reach don’t matter. The aesthetic appearance of this weapon in it’s standing form is awful, enough for a ton of people asking it to be adjusted. It should be adjusted.

I think you’d be right if it weren’t for one thing. The length matches the radius of the strike.

I can’t tell you how frustrated I get when The Ettin hits me with his pudgy cudgel from 3X it’s length away from him. I think the practicality of an animation matching the effect is quite an important thing in a game.

Is the scythe goofy long? yup, is the entire shroud kinda goofy/kitten, yup. Doesn’t bother me. I’m far more bothered by all the gaudy items in the game.

They could easily just add a green ‘swoosh’ to the outside of each reaper attack to show the actual range. That would be a far better alternative to the current option imo.

So we’re asking for realistic and we’re saying “ohh it’s some weird shockwave effect” ok…

I never asked for realistic. A scythe in general isn’t a realistic weapon. I’m asking for it to not look goofy.

Andlat Helsonr.1284:

This whole thing reminds me of the time when people thought GS + axe/shield warriors were completely OP because they didnt know the tells and just got wasted. wait for a month or two at most, people will start recognizing the animation straight away.

To be fair… they did end up nerfing it.

Jerus.4350:

SneakyTouchy.6043:

Looks like 2 kinds of people in this thread. Those saying the length is an eyesore that makes them feel uncomfortable, and those that simply like it.

Interestingly, had this weapon been 2x the height of a character instead of 4x to begin with, I don’t think any of these current likers would be making threads about how it’s too small.

The physics, realism and reach don’t matter. The aesthetic appearance of this weapon in it’s standing form is awful, enough for a ton of people asking it to be adjusted. It should be adjusted.

I think you’d be right if it weren’t for one thing. The length matches the radius of the strike.

I can’t tell you how frustrated I get when The Ettin hits me with his pudgy cudgel from 3X it’s length away from him. I think the practicality of an animation matching the effect is quite an important thing in a game.

Is the scythe goofy long? yup, is the entire shroud kinda goofy/kitten, yup. Doesn’t bother me. I’m far more bothered by all the gaudy items in the game.

They could easily just add a green ‘swoosh’ to the outside of each reaper attack to show the actual range. That would be a far better alternative to the current option imo.