Guild Wars 2

I have seen a commander who would only accept join requests if the player was on teamspeak, but then teamspeak is not necessary anyway nor is being in a commanders group.

There are no unspoken manners about grouping. Stay with the group and do what they do, unless you don’t and then you are of course on your own.

There are some general rules about WvW that you haven’t asked about. Don’t take supply from towers, only supply camps in most situations. The towers need them for upgrades. I’ve seen a commander who was very upset that one particular player kept placing un-superior siege down and using up precious supply that could have been used for the superior siege that was, during that run, readily available and much better.

There are guilds who have been known to want to have a battleground all to themselves. Screw them.

You paid for the game and have every right to play as anyone else. Alot of the servers do have teamspeak or something and it doesn’t hurt to hear what they have to say. Depending on your class there may be requests to do a particulary thing once in a while but don’t feel compeled to comply. All contributions are appreciated. Having said that, as an Elementalist I will almost always play my staff during seiges to clear the walls and provide some healing for siege at the gates. It is a team event after all.

I’m not sure what you mean by fastest. I’ll guess and assume you mean keystrokes and will not be in sPvP where reflexes and fast reactions times are everything. In that case, you need not worry about a bunker build. Bunkers are a PvP build for 1v1s and are not needed in Pve or even WvW if you run with a group. Because you will not be doing that, you have a wide range of build options. The sky is the limit. Level him up and have fun!

Suppose I should have said usually. If a player is moving fast and sideways to us, they can avoid it. The skill hits where they were when we triggered the skill. But, usually it will work. I think it beats the alternative which is to take precious time to mouse point every time. Now that you know the game works like that, you’ll recognize when to use it and when not to.

Really like the Ele. Use all the weapon sets depending on what I am running and have alot of fun with the different playstyles they each have. But, I don’t play much sPvP at all. No doubt because that has been the target of so many of the patches, I have not been affected nearly as much. Also, although I can put out significant dps with high crit, I am happy providing alot of support to a group, so I don’t get too upset when my dps is not as high as another classes.

In MF the other day, I was the only one up. Three were dead and one was downed and almost dead. So, I soloed the two veterans with my staff while the downed player got up and revived the other three. I am not bragging of course because that is not hard to do. I am saying it was a blast and fun to play. I really enjoy the endurance and speed of the ele. Coupled with the crowd control, good healing, condition removal, utility skills, and dps, there are alot of ways to play a situation.

Interesting. Fire Grab is one skill I can always land. Taking my fingers off the movement keys and hitting the skill will auto turn me to the target and hit it everytime as long as I am in range. All I have to remember is to be sure the target has not moved off and is burning..

Chemy.1462:

Kirbyprime.2645:

What’s your set?

D/D – Rush into them and kill
D/F – Earth reflect, run into them, Air 4 and kill
S/F – Earth reflect, nuke them, Air 4, nuke some more
S/D – Run in, nuke nuke nuke nuke nuke nuke nuke
S – Nuke, Earth reflect, nuke more

D/D is what I’m using right now

Yeap. I think your issue is more related to your tactics than anything else. Throughout this game there are ranged mobs and bosses whose weakness is melee range.

Also, whatever weapon set you are using, the chills, stuns, blinds, condition removals, immobilize etc. coupled with dodges will reduce and avoid alot of the damage. Better to use those skills than the auto attacks when your other dps is on cooldown.

BLKNovember.5620:

It’s a good skill, but it’s entirely situational, and the range is very short, keeping you close to downed allies, which would be a risk if they got downed in the first place. But it does grant you a chance to kite while casting, instead of directly reviving and taking direct damage from enemies, I suppose.

/agreed I’ll load it if I am in a dungeon group that has players who are downed alot. The final fight of MF is a good example when standing still and rezzing is hard with the aoe and shock waves. Wvw can be a good use of the skill especially now with the increased aoe damage from siege equipment. There are alot of downed players and in earth we can rez 3. I lose my favorite utility skills I would otherwise use but, hey, it’s a team effort.

It used to revive dead players in earth for a long time. It took a couple patches, but Anet was finally able, sadly, to end that.

wtf are post-temple DEs? Never heard of them. As our world holds sporatic temple events to open Bathlazar for example, for no better reason than legendary mats, which is often lightly attended, perhaps myself and others are badly lacking in an incentive to take these temples, which has gotton old to tell you the truth. What are alot of us missing?

No one mentioned Necro, so I’ll throw it out there, even though I deleted mine so I am no expert. But, its ability to remove/apply conditions and remove/apply boons to mobs and party members was phenominal. The essence of support. No other class with the sophistication of their abilities.

Dailys and Monthlys-will get you alot of Karma which can be used for many things, including buying full sets of Exotics from the Temple vendors in Orr. They are not a grind and will come naturally as you do all the rest mentioned above. Just be sure to check what you need for completion and go to those areas of the the world.

Crafting-If you are into some cool looks and fine gear this can be alot of fun.

Guild Missions and Group Events-there are some threads in this forum and others that post guilds that will invite you to their guild for the completion of missions. There are also servers that run group events such as conquest of the differentTemples that anyone can tag along on. All you have to do is show up.

Server Communities-Most if not all worlds have a web site for the community at large that will sponser fun events such as jumping puzzle completion etc. Watching others fall to their death can be great fun.

Heh. My first sign on after the patch was last night and I spent the whole night doing guild missions. Of course I saw the patch download and I was real curious at the end of the night what it was because I didn’t notice any change. Granted it was 1) Pve only and 2) I don’t use Mist Form because I’ve found I don’t need it and 3) Don’t use a Cantrip build for the regen and condition removal because I don’t need that much condition removal either. So, after reading the notes I did learn why some of my RTL attacks seemed to come up short. Just about everything else in the patch was a bonus.

I do see Last Warrior Lord’s point though, but I would be curious to know a specifc situation how their play is affected.

With 30 in Arcana, I now count 7 condition removals in under 5 seconds instead of the 9 there used to be with a DD cantrip build. The 9 would only be there if all cantrips were off cooldown all at once. One of the missing two would be available at the 5 second mark. How is that a fatal nerf? My math may be off by 1 or so. I am counting 4 for cleansing fire (3 for the skill, 1 for the rengen and condition removal with the cantrip build)

Kind of the same goes for RTL. Is the argument that if we are still running after 20 seconds, we are dead now instead? Map movement? The difference in distance between running with one RTL or two at the end of 40 seconds is miniscule.

Curiously, I’ve seen few posts that illustrate a detailed picture of just what exactly the fuss is all about. What exactly are the situations you guys are getting into that this stuff is that big a deal?

It says “strike” an opponent, not damage. I assumed this meant something like “run into”. So, yes a block would count as that. Is there a bug that a Blind will prevent the 20 second cooldown?

I too use the skill for closing in on an oppenent, rarely ( I won’t say never) for anything else. Yeah, I think the object was clearly to prevent elementalists from escaping at will, but the effect is pretty small imo. If someone is still chasing me after 20 seconds lol, which has happened like once since game launch, I am not going to suffer permanent emotional damage if they catch me for a change.

I for one agree a dev input now and then in our forum would certainly be easier. Instead, Anet seems to speak out in other venues, requiring us to go there to hear their thoughts. A dev response in the forums is not needed to hear what we have to say and getting into a debate in a forum post re what ifs or why nots just goes nowhere. Their time is better spent having those discussions among themselves. Only they have a complete and total understanding of the class in ways we can only dream of. It’s a full time job and they get paid to do nothing else lol.

Also, the wiki is pretty good at answering the class mechanics questions we need to understand the class. If that was lacking, I can see we would certainly need more feedback. As it is though, with the explanations in the wiki and in this and other forums, it is pretty easy for a player to get a handle on the class.

The GW2 community will not stop being unconstructive if a dev answers a constructive post. I think that is the nature of the community of a non-subscription game. If I was a dev I would avoid getting into a debate in these forums at all costs.

They are obviously addresing issues and, with few exceptions, we clearly understand exactly why they have done what they have done without explanation. I don’t need to hear them say it.

Just a note to players new to the class looking to glean useful information from this thread. The consequenses of these changes to the ele are extremly situational, even then usually easily compensated for with workarounds, and will not impact the majority of players at all.

That’s not to say some players have not experienced pain as a result of the changes or do not have some valid complaints. The min/max playstyle and attitude that there is only one way to play the class with specific combos in specific, not often occuring, situations has been altered for those players. For the rest of us, because we are not usually in situations where we need to have RTL as the only option every 20 seconds to escape baddies, that is not an issue. Or, being so close to death that we have to heal with utilites while in Mist Form (as if we hadn’t used that utility already)for 3 seconds, again not an issue for most of us and there are other ways, like using it earlier. Or, being the object of so many conditions so often that the class will become unplayable, that we cannot live with the class and ragequit when left with the significant removals we still have with exactly the same builds as we had before, in PvP only.

Its the same thing in every game in every forum after every patch. No disrepect to those whose game style has been altered past your point of endurance. Just that this patch is not a class breaker for almost everyone else.

Minion of Vey.4398:

Baladir.2736:

I don’t understand the complaint re RTL in Pve. If we hit something the cooldown is reduced by 1/2 to 20 seconds. I don’t see why I can’t live with that. I use that skill to close to the target, not run…

Re AOE. Ours is ranged, has a significant radius, offers combo fields, and with crits does some good damage. Sure, I would like more damage, who wouldn’t. But it is apples and oranges to compare our aoe to a warror.

There’s a whole thread going on mist form and I don’t use it so…..

Glyphs got some nice buffs. Once again talks about ele nerfs were not realized.

Why should we need to “live with that”? Other movement abilities on other professions don’t.

When rangers use their 1100 range swoop with 12s cooldown (Superior to pre nerf RTL for getting around in PVE, 20s cooldown 1550 range), they don’t need to.

Seriously? The loss of a, once every 20 seconds, sprint on a Pve map is important to our class? Where are we going in such a hurry that this alters our game play experience? In SPvp, sure, there is someplace to be in a hurry, but in Pve, where are we going in such a hurry that this is nothing more than a minor inconvenience?

Clearing conditions before entering Mist Form solves that problem. Sure there will be situations where there will not be time, if the Ele has taken substantial direct damage And have substantial applied conditions that will down him during the 3 seconds in Mist form.

I certainly see the points that its use has changed drastically though. With the nerf to RTL, we no longer have the panic buttons to escape like we used to. But then, perhaps we deserve to die in those situations lol.

I don’t understand the complaint re RTL in Pve. If we hit something the cooldown is reduced by 1/2 to 20 seconds. I don’t see why I can’t live with that. I use that skill to close to the target, not run…

Re AOE. Ours is ranged, has a significant radius, offers combo fields, and with crits does some good damage. Sure, I would like more damage, who wouldn’t. But it is apples and oranges to compare our aoe to a warror.

There’s a whole thread going on mist form and I don’t use it so…..

Glyphs got some nice buffs. Once again talks about ele nerfs were not realized.

Yes you can do it. Posters in the forums have talked of stacking might before a sPvp match starts. Other than that kind of thing, stacking might for might’s stake when you could instead be directly attacking the other character or mob will, imo, cost you dps.

Einlanzer.1627:

Lert.6287:

Ye, you’re missing that it’s not only about dealing damage.

No, I’m not missing that. I’m talking about damage in conjunction with support, which I clearly outlined in the post. Nice try at being helpful though.

I’m confused. Yes, you said you understood the other were support’y but then proceeded to compare them based on dps and concluded they were weak based on dps. The others are definately not weak when compared on non dps factors. I can not be in combat for long before I need the heals, cripples, freezes, knockdowns etc. in the other attunements. I don’t know any elementalist who survives based on fire dps and dodges alone in a tough battle with multiple opponents.

I use it on off hand weapons. At the start of a battle it will proc when I change into an attunement and before I ever get in melee range which doesn’t do me any good. If I choose to run though it comes in handy but that of course is 10 seconds later.

I know your question was about staff. I try not to get into melee or 1v anything with a staff. The effect is a small aoe and easy to run around for someone coming after me from a distance. It could come in handy if I am in a group and the battle becomes close quarters, but then I just prefer to stick around and die lol if that is what everyone else is doing. I use other sigils for staff.

eldain stenlund.4306:

……..dagger: Umm, first of all, your a caster, light armor, lowest hp.. you shouldnt be in melee in the first place. design = total stupidity………

.

I get this. I really do. The class is not like any other, anywhere. I had a hard time playing the necro and finally dropped it because I did not like the concept of the class. I just couldn’t get into it. It is just plain weird to me, stupid as you say. Design wise I hear a good necro can do quite well.

The design of the elementalist is superb too. The proof is in the success that yes we can get in melee range and do exceptionallly well. In light armor. With a little ittty bitty dagger. Must just drive you crazy lol.

Jester.1546:

I dig about the combo fields, and am alla bout using staff to support the group. But we both know there are times where the fight is stable and its mostly just “this is taking forever, I want to pew harder.”

ah, I think I misunderstood your point. There are not a alot of dps move sequences in staff and like the previous poster said, not alot of dps reasons to move out of attunements. But, the elementalist staff increases others dps. If the damage they are taking is reduced they are alive, not self healing, and not running out of range because they have no more heals. They are not taking time to remove conditions. They do not need a rez. For example, Staff Earth 1 is a great skill. Weakness stacks on many bosses. Given the choice between weak autoattacks and some nice support options, I opt for support.

Jester.1546:

I dig about the combo fields, and am alla bout using staff to support the group. But we both know there are times where the fight is stable and its mostly just “this is taking forever, I want to pew harder.”

I am with you all the way. If I can get in melee range I am all about dps. I go to the staff if I need the range on a boss. We are talking about bosses of course, not all the other stuff.

Key to melee range is to watch for aoe circles at their feet. They will often telegraph their melee damage moves. That can be hard to see because we are too close and they are so big. I try to stay behind them. If I keep seeing toes then I know they looking at me lol. A quick dodge roll forward to get behind them fixes that. If they have an aoe melee attack that has no aoe circles then its just hoping I can see them start it so I can dodge. Some bosses we just have to be at range, no choice.

Staff on a boss is not all about Your dps. Static Field on the boss will stack alot of vulnerabiliy if the party uses Projectile Finishers. Healing Rain on the boss will proc healing with projectile finishers and clear conditions on the melee. Lava Font gives the projectile finisher effect of burning. You have 6 combo fields in all with Staff.

There’s a theme here if you missed it so far in this and my previous post. Combo fields!

With Scepter Dagger and Glyph of Elemental Power

1) Pop Elemental Power
2) RTL to the npc to get in melee range
3) Fire attunement
4) Ring of Fire, combo field
5) Fire Grab, damage to burning targets
6) Dragons Tooth, gives might for combo finisher
7) Pheonix as soon as Dragons Tooth is in the air, gives might for combo finisher
8) Earth Attunement
9) Earthquake, give might for combo finisher
10) Churning Earth for combo finisher

Arcana can give a combo finisher also but there is only so much time to get everything in until the Ring of Fire goes away. I often do not bother with Fire Grab in the first combo. There is time in subsequent rotations to use that with Ring of FIre when Churning Earth for example will be on cooldown but I want to land Earthquake. The important thing is to get myself and nearby players alot of might asap before the boss perhapes knocks me down or hits me hard and/or I need to go to water for condtion removal or healing for myself or others. Don’t forget Air, for RTL, Blinding Flash, and Lightning Strike, quick triple combo after things are on a roll, rather than staying in one attunement and auto attacking. With Elemental Power this is good for Weakness and will help save your hide in melee range.

Must be in melee range. The Ring of Fire is key. With other party members aware of that and using their own blast finishers, you will see some really high Might stacking for yourself and them. I go back to fire everytime it is off cooldown to use that.

I use a Logitech Flight Controller (of some kind, don’t remember offhand) It is software programable. There are 4 buttons on top of the stick, a trigger, and a side button. The top hat has 8 positions and is controled by the thumb( I only use 4 positions) The Logitech mouse in the right hand has two side switches, left and right selection and a push button for the scroll wheel. I programed the left and right scroll wheel for crtl and alt so I can get many key combos programed in the game. I don’t need to touch the keyboard. I can move and simultaneously do anything else at the same time.

azurerogue.9240:

…..Another question: I was just thinking it might be worth giving up Elemental Attunement for Renewing Stamina – I know renewing vigor has saved me tons of times (especially before “nerf” but even after as it’s still effective) and at 1200 range I’m not sure how often my allies will benefit from my attunement swap buffs. More importantly, I plan to stay in fire a lot unless the opportunity to drop a couple quick spells in another attunement presents itself, so I’m not sure how often I’ll even get the benefits. This is one I can test out myself, but was just wondering if anyone had any brilliant insights.

Nothing brilliant probably. I like Renewing Stamina because I dont proc vigor with Cantrips. I like Elemental Attunement too. So I have both. I don’t think I spend any more time in fire than other attunements unless I am targeting tops of walls or a gate during a siege.

Gaudrath.6725:

…..

The weapon set that has real issues is Scepter, due to the slowness and predictability of most damaging attacks. This might change slightly if the Arc Lightning gets the same buff Mesmer GS beam attack will get. We’ll see.

Staff, however, is mostly fine. It is a emphasized support weapon, meaning you don’t want to be caught alone out in the open with it, or even in small groups where your chances of getting focused are much higher.

I think that sums it up pretty well in Wvw. Two of our weapon sets, staff and dagger/dagger are very useful for differenct roles. I am not going to complain that we get two out of three (not to say scepter or focus don’t have any use at all, but there it is). I enjoy switching between the two sets often. In fact I have little choice lol, because if I am not around alot of people, I feel helpless running in the open with a staff. D/D is the weapon of choice in small engagements.

+1 on your post. I’ll have to take another look at Glyph of Elemental Power. There’s no reason not to swap that in for Lightning Flash when I am using staff, imo Per the wiki: The chance of the effect triggering is high (around 50% for fire and water, and 25% for air and earth) but has a cooldown of about 5 seconds.

If you can survive with <12000 hit points, that’s all that matters, but 12000 is all glass. That’s one-two shot territory lol. There are plenty of players who run with that and claim success, but I don’t think the range of the staff will change the amount of health you need as much as you seem to think. There are plenty of mobs in the dungeons that will be able to close the distance to you easily enough. The other point about agro in dungeons is that mobs will often not target melee, but ranged instead.

I would suggest simply using the hit points you currently carry as a starting point. Of course you could just take your build you have now and carry a staff and see how you do?

This is a quote from Jonathan Sharp from the 12/14/12 patch:

•Ele
•We see the elementalist as the king of versatility. The skill ceiling for the Ele is exceptional, as the ability to leverage all four attunements at the right time is crucial for understanding the elemetnalist. The Ele boasts some of the best team support and control abilities in the game, as well as some great area of effect damage.
______

When they got rid of the trinity dps/healer/tank, the fire breathing, elemental wielding, caster got “team support and control abilities.”

I am not proficient at small engagement use of the staff so I can’t speak to that. I prefer to use dagger dagger and hope to accurately foresee the use of it. In large field warfare however, and in running battles of larger groups, the staff is great at providing cover and impeding players with crowd control. In large field combat utilizing our range, we can bring significant fire to bear to aid our own melee characters or run off ranged. I’ve never seen anything break the line of opposing forces like my meteor storm. They will turn and run, and always away. A quick shockwave is often a way to catch a straggler or runner. In a close running battle, unsteady ground and static field do catch players. Windborne speed for everyone around. Chain lightning to use on the run.

Wvw commanders love staff eles. There are too few of them by far. Eles during a siege will clear the walls, end of story. The staff too is a great weapon to assist in holding a bridge or narrow area such as a break in a wall.

The profession as you see it would be fun to play, it would. I don’t think the devs will give us alot of help, given their view above of the class. If we kept our movement and we had ranged hard hitting, no induction, short cooldown skills on the staff like we have dagger dagger, we would reign supreme in PvP, and be OP in the process. Staff is simply signifcant additional damage, but I can dream too.

Correct me if i am wrong, but this is just another thread complaining about Pvp dps shortcomings. Well written to be sure and quite a bit of time and thought too, but still looking at the class thru one facet of the game, dps. You run in a group yet I did not see anything about group synergies, but then Pvp players rarely if ever do. It’s all 1v1, I can’t hit anything.

In other words, if we took out everything in the thread that dealt with Pvp dps oriented material, there would not be much left. There’s nothing wrong with that. Don’t get me wrong. I just wish perhaps that was in the title so I didn’t have to read the whole thing to find that out.

I should have realized at the second paragraph, “This thread is mode only and SOLELY for contructive criticism.” My Bad. It’s not really about the class taken as a whole and an even handed discussion of the positives and negatives, just the shortcomings. I have to ask, why to you play the ele at all?

i am thinking to that players will become much bolder seeing many players are around them, or meeker at how many they face.

There have been plenty of times I have been certain the only reason I have survived is because I was invisible.

Granted most players in Wvw don’t work together. I never see targets over anyone’s heads. I get the impression everyone just hits what is closest to them. Excluding groups of good pvp players who do work together and are always a problem, what happens now that everyone can see us?

There are alot of variables depending on the systems of the players. Many players will just be seeing badges and some kind of blobs. Whether or not they will now see me as a squishy elementalist I don’t know. Certainly we will be more visable than we have been before and that creates problems. If I see the tell-tale streak of RTL or a ring of fire, you can bet that player is targeted, but will I be able to target him? Tab targeting with a so many players in view? Mouse clicking on an itty bitty Asura amoung so many targets?

I am thinking that regardless of the madness the new battlefield will bring, our class will be much more vulnerable than before. Though smaller battles will remain unchanged, I expect to be surprised at how many more players have been around that I have never seen and how many more of them will see me. That is bad news for a d/d ele lol. imo. I have to wonder how this will play out with builds and tactics, now that we can expect more incoming damage.

The OP was just giving us his experience with a build he tried out in WvW. He enjoyed playing it and had fun with it. He never said it was the best build or best way to play or best weapon set choice. And, he is entitled to enjoy the game and share that with the rest of us.

With d/d, an ele has to pick his opportunities because they are very vulnerable. No amount of condition clearing and healing will counter the direct damage an ele takes in light armor when facing superior numbers. We have to run in and out.

It will be interesting what happens when the culling changes take effect. Bottom line is that if an ele has a target over his head in melee range he is d.e.a.d. Fortunately most WvW players in this game don’t work together. But, with no more culling, they will all now be able to see us lol. If they can see us well enough with the culling options and their systems, I dont know.

emikochan.8504:

Intelligent mobs don’t usually go for toughest, they go for weakest. Hence why in some places like CM the glass cannons get chased forever.

Differnt mobs have different rules to follow

That must explain it. Inside that house was one of the funniest times I have had. I had mobs chasing me as I jumped over furniture all over the room. We were all laughing our heads off.

Dingle.2743:

Intigo.1653:

Arheundel.6451:

Intigo.1653:

eldain stenlund.4306:

lol.. “massive damage in a single attack” pfff.. lol…

Ok but…

1) 22 stacks of might
2) bonus food
3) fury
4) maybe vulnerability from friendly zerg

Sure ele doesn’t lack damage for sure, but the picture you’ve posted is misleading

I never said it wasn’t, it was just all the effort that I felt like putting into a reply when the original post was this wrong and uninformed.

Churning Earth is still one of, if not the strongest, hitting abilities in the game.

Also, it was 23 stacks and don’t forget the 25 Bloodlust stacks on top of that. Still had pretty bad gear back then, though.

Churning Earth has the second highest damage single hit in the game; first place goes to Kill Shot, which deals roughly 15-17% more damage at equal stats; third place goes to Eviscerate, which deals roughly 6-7% less damage.

Churning Earth, however, takes twice as much time to cast compared to kill shot, which is already slow enough for anybody to deal with. That’s the same issue as most of the big hits elementalists have. It also has triple the cooldown time. Traits can boost the damage by around 50% total, though, and utilities can guarantee that it will crit, so it may be possible to build around it.

I generallly don’t have a problem landing Churning Earth. 1) RTL to target. 2) Change to Earth Attunement for Earthen Blast and a 3 sec cripple. The Sigil of Hydromancy may proc for a Frozen Blast if off cooldown 3)Earthquake for the damage and Knockdown. 4) Churning Earth for another cripple that stacks duration. 5) Pop Arcane Shield 6) Lightning Flash if it looks like he might get out of the aoe field. Fun for a suicide into a group too. More fun than running lol. Ceratinly more fun than stacking might.

Usually player(s) will try to hobble out. There are two or three, up to four conditions they have to clear to start running depending on how the player clears conditions.

Defendable? Sure, but usually not. Everything is defendable, but battle and players’ cooldowns are fluid. Their attention is often somewhere else for example. Condition removals are down. Nothing is perfect.

Earthen Blast and Sigil of Hydromancy are also great for running away. Best advice Monty Python every gave lol. Often the best course of action no matter how hard I try not to lol.

It’s easy to aim the cones. 1) target the player 2) get in the other characters face. d/d has three skills that do that, two automatically. 3) take your finger keys off the movement keys and fire. The game will hit every time even if the target is moving. It will even instantaneoulsy swivel you 180 to hit a character behind you. If you already know this than please ignore the post, but then I dont know why you are having problems.

sapphyredragon.6437:

I think a few people are missing the point… We’re talking about the limited options for ele. Yes, the few builds that work well are great. Congrats. We don’t all want to waste 30 points in Arcana and 20-30 in Water, though.

I don’t think Earth is useless, but I guess I like that it gives toughness and condition damage. I always spec into Earth and get V (Elemental Shielding).

I am not so sure. If you are having problems outside of pvp surviving without a bunker build, there are other issues. Bunker builds are not at all needed in pve. Vitality, yes, but bunkers, no. The skys the limit in the number of builds one can craft with good vitality that do not need to have 30 in water to get decent vitality either.

This is especially true with exotic gear which frankly makes the game so much easier to play. I went thru all of Orr with under level karma green gear and found it very challenging. With exotic it is a cake walk, relitively speaking. Dungeons are so much easiler with exotic gear I can not tell you. Leveling up we were all level appropriate as soon as we qualified in green karma gear or inexpensive crafted gear. If people are having issues running these dungeons, which are almost all underlevel, in exotic gear, something is wrong and the build is probalby not the issue, as long as a character has decent vitality. And that doesn’t mean pvt gear either. My exotic rings and accessories have a total of 28 toughness. My gear is Lyssa gear which carries precision as its main attribute. There are no pvt runes on that. My build has only 15 in water. I have 17,000 health. I do just fine with that in Wvw and Pve. I do decent damage. I just don’t pretend I can run into a group of players in Wvw, outmanned, and survive lol.

Seems people in the forums are always speaking of required builds without specifying their use. yes, lol, a character needs hit points and toughness in PvP where a dodge (a simple example) will not lose agro or when we have a target over our heads.. So, what else is new? We are in light armor. Having said that, I run 0-10-15-15-30 and do just fine. I just use a staff when there are numbers around. Seriously, its silly to expect to run into melee range of intellegent players and survive for long. They know we are easy targets in light armor. How come many of us do not?

Gallrvaghn.4921:

Baladir.2736:

The logic of the weapon damage seems to be risk vs. rewards. The melee dagger/dagger has a great deal of damage. The scepter/dagger when used in melee range also grants a good deal of damage because of the might it can effortlessly generate with Dragon Tooth and Phoenix used as blast finishers. When scepter is used at range those two finishers are lost because the blast finishers of those skills is outside the Ring of Fire.

In Pve the Scepter/Dagger is awesome. RTL to the boss,Ring of Fire, 4 blast finishers plus any arcana finishers plus dodges and the everyone in the group is primed with insane might. When are we going to stop talking about our class as if we were solo all the time and realize what we bring to a party in combo fields, finishers, crowd control, healing, boons, and condtion removal?

Can I haz option for dealing awesome damage from myself and get rid of the “I stack hefty Might for everyone, therefore I am amazingly powerful” kind of mindset? Should ele always rely on Might andcombos to deal enough damage?

Might stacking with d/d and s/d is too powerful to ignore. Same goes for combo fields. It would be like saying, “Can’t a thief get away from stacking vulnerability?” I was in a mini boss fight in coe1 the other day and the thief in the party stacked vulnerability to 25. How is that not helpful? Rhetorical quesiton lol. The game designers when they eliminated the trinity roles replaced them with group roles. The group roles replaced the high dps clases, big healing classes, and tanking classes, which we all lost, with group synergies to increase group healing, dps, etc.

We don’t have to stack might, but it is a powerful option available to us. In the example above, I had never seen vulnerability stacked like that before and groups have done just fine. I don’t know if it was just the thief build or what, but it was certainly helpful. I don’t use arcana skills to stack might, btw. I often go staff in parties. We don’t have to go overboard and confine ourselves, but we shouldn’t ignore this kind of stuff either. imo

The logic of the weapon damage seems to be risk vs. rewards. The melee dagger/dagger has a great deal of damage. The scepter/dagger when used in melee range also grants a good deal of damage because of the might it can effortlessly generate with Dragon Tooth and Phoenix used as blast finishers. When scepter is used at range those two finishers are lost because the blast finishers of those skills is outside the Ring of Fire.

In Pve the Scepter/Dagger is awesome. RTL to the boss,Ring of Fire, 4 blast finishers plus any arcana finishers plus dodges and the everyone in the group is primed with insane might. When are we going to stop talking about our class as if we were solo all the time and realize what we bring to a party in combo fields, finishers, crowd control, healing, boons, and condtion removal?

destroywhatdestroysyou.4301:

Hmm okay. I was thinking about playing a Thief too, (with a Shortbow), or a Ranger (with a Longbow/Shortbow). Do either of these classes have better DPS than an Elementalist?

The trinity of tank, dps, and healing does not exist in this game. You will never hear “heal me” anymore, thank our lucky stars, for example. There are some glass cannon builds which you can find in the forum or simply experiment with for yourself, but because each character regardless of class is primarily responsible for their own healing and will regularly gain agro against dungeon bosses, they will not be the big dps dealers you may be familiar with in other games. That is what I was meaning to say.

So, I didn’t mean to discourage you from the class. These are things to keep in mind simply when building your character. The penalty in this game for min maxing dps is a lack of vitality (health) toughness (armor) and the ability to trigger traits that aid in these areas. The more experienced in the game you get, the less crititcal these areas become, presumably. No guarantee there. There are some glass cannon builds out there that are running with 12,000 hit points. I prefer to stay around 17,000. In sPvP I built an Elementalist with over 21,000 lol. What part of the game you enjoy playing has alot to do with what you need too.

Dodging is the #1 defensive tool. Constantly moving is #2. That will go a long ways towards increasing your survivability and reducing the hit points your character needs.

Having said all this lol, there is no single recognized dps class. A warrior is probalby the most straight forward class for dps. I have seen a glass cannon ranger do some remarkable things in the hands of a good player. A well played messmer can do some amazing damage. Even the guardian which is well recognized for being a more defensive class can get some good dps numbers. Necros I have heard can be king out in WvW.

There is simply no class you can hold out and say, “high dps (name the class) lfg” No one wants those. There is so much more a character has to be able to do.

Just so you know, each skill has a different factor for the amount of crit damage it does. Staff skills are not known for high crit damage compared to some other weapon skills. More likely than not, you will find the Elementalist will not compare well with mages’ dps in other games.

Thrashbarg.9820:

Aggro in this game has a lot to do with smell.

If you smell funny to the mobs, they ignore you. If you smell good, they eat you. If you smell bad, they eat someone else or throw things at you to make you smell better.

Grawl, trolls, ettins, etc. like the smell of meat, if you’ve killed any deer or moose or anything like that recently, you probably smell like food to them. Leave the wildlife alone, you big meanie.

Skritt are all about pie. If you are a cook, or have any pie or fruit in your bag, watch out for Skritt aggro. They also like cookies, and legendary/ascended gear (shinies!).

Oozes have “fur-envy”. If you play a Charr, try to avoid getting downwind of any Oozes.

Asura, or anyone who has rubbed up against one recently, will pull the most aggro from risen. “Brainnnnnsssss…..”

Icebrood have no sense of smell, noses are frozen. You get their attention by yelling (like my girlfriend gets my attention….). Shout warriors and guardians are perfect for this, but elementalists can end up with aggro by swapping attunements too often.

(All this info is verified by my extensive research, and contradicted by common sense.)

No, I’m pretty sure that sounds accurate. As the Charr like to say, “There are old Charr and there are bold Charr, but there are few old, bold Charr.”

The #1 reason in the wiki is closest to the NPC. #2 is who is dealing damage. It does not say the most damage, simpley dealing damage. I can vouch for the fact #1 will not guarantee agro. Also, in another section in the wiki it states. “However, keep in mind that different NPCs use different aggro mechanics, and that a tactic that is useful against some NPCs can utterly fail against another”

In other words, agro is random and changes often. The best advice I found in the wiki article was that dodging away can often help to shake agro. My guess would be that has something to do with the invulnerability during that time. They state dodging increases distance faster and that is the reason. Regardles, dodging often regularly seems to work. For builds like mine that have Evasive Arcana, we are doing that all the time anyway and agro is generally not an issue. Best Guess.

reposted below due to formattin issues

“Base direct damage” is used in the formula for critical damage.

Per the wiki:
Base direct damage is given by the following equation:

Damage done = (weapon damage) * Power * (skill-specific coefficient) / (target’s Armor)

The “skill-specific coefficient” is the key here. It has to be lower for the staff skills. We do not know, at least I cannot find, this number for any of our skills.

That explains the math. The reasons the devs did this I think was to balance the staff because it does so many other things such as those mentioned above as wells as combo fields, six, and aoe crowd control to mention two more.

Not a good idea at all. Classes do not have the same boons and the effect of the boons is different from class to class.

1) The same number of boons on two different classes leaves both classes in entirely different states offensively and defensively.

2) Boons are unbalanced. Some are simply more valuable than others. Saying the number of boons on a character determines his penalty would be saying the same thing as the number of conditions on our class determine their effect on us. We know that is not true. We selectively use our condtion removal for those condtiions that are most critical under that situtation.

3) Each situation gives boons a different priority in the importance of their effect. Might is only effective if the ele is in a postion to down the opponent and inconsequential if only trying to stay alive. Speed is primary to escape or travel to a point, not in the heat of battle and to a minor degree the importance varies depending on whether up against a ranged or melee character or a character equiped with closing skills, such as a d/d ele.

4) Nerfing boons to counter one build, a bunker ele for example, would have an unequal effect on other classes or ele builds when their boons have no such great an effect.

5) Boons come with their own penalties. Quickness comes with its own unique conditions. Other boons come with penalties because of the traits that were replaced with them and are no longer available. Builds are sacrificed too as well as equipment sigils etc. to get certain boons or damage or effects.

Adjusting a classes boons to prevent OP builds for that specific class, weapon set, gear, and build is a much more straight forward process. This prevents the unintended consequences on other builds and classes.

I for example run with Lyssa gear that upon the use of an elite skill removes all conditions and gives all boons for 5 seconds. That gear is pretty light on positives otherwise. That is an extreme example but clearly illustrates how disproportionate the penalty would be on me. Most might argue that proc is underpowered and not worth the effort. How obvious then is the penalty against me for using it an unfair penalty given its limited usefulness to begin with.

Because damage is not the only measure of the effectiveness of a weapon set? Do I get a Stuffed Charr Backpack for first correct answer?

skupuz.6940:

Intigo.1653:

No. Backstab Thief still works great after the change.

Since Ele is the only other class that can reliably 1vX

Such a laughable statement to make.

What is there to laugh about? Sorry but the only classes that can reliably 1vx and get away are ele and thief. Sorry, forgot to include “get away.”

Can other classes do it too? Yes, but not as effective as ele/thief.

If escaping an undefeated player is “reliable 1vx” then I guess I would have to reconsider my definition of reliable. Though, this is not the first I have heard something like that from a D/D ele. I just thought the concept the first time I heard it was a bit unusual, though truthful. It’s just that I don’t think there are alot players who value the fact they can run from a battle.

It is a bit premature to think upcoming changes will somehow change the thief class and cause massive rage quit. I think most class changes already occured and that the WvW changes were postponed for March. Regardless, the devs seem to be pretty evenhanded in their adjustments. The recent changes to the Ele class seem to demonstrate the devs’ cautiousness. They were far milder than many expected.

The thief class seems so much different to play that I suspect their players will not leave to play a different class, any class, without some unforseen unfathomable event. Learning an entirely new class, especially one as complicated as the Ele, and bringing that class up to speed is not an easy undertaking. For me, the class now seems relitively straight forward, but then I remember I have been playing it since Beta 1 and am still picking up little things I seem to be noticing and implementing for the first time.