Guild Wars 2

You can actively use your dodge during W.A., unlike Daggerstorm, but the ability itself does not innately provide evasion.

Look, Whirling Axe does NOT grant evasion, stability, or any sort of damage reduction. I cannot tell you how many times I’ve been interrupted using it, or even how many times I’ve been able to stop both Warriors and Thieves mid-channel with stuns, dazes, pulls, etc. Evasion would stop CC which I am positive I can still dish out consistently.

It’s nowhere NEAR an invincibility button. No one trying to hit or interrupt you while you channel W.A. is a stupid move showcasing a serious lack of skill on their part, especially considering how vulnerable you are during it compared to Daggerstorm.

Whirling Axe actually doesn’t evade attacks. Any sort of incapacitating effect will break your channel. Bull’s Charge has a knockdown attached to it, as do various other Warrior skills and utilities. Since it’s a stolen skill, if you’re interrupted while channelling it, you lose out on the remainder of the damage just as a warrior’s skill will go on CD if his/her W.A. gets interrupted.

Blazer Hellsing.9184:

Cris, very informative post. I mistook those attributes for the Assassin, but you say that they are Rogue attributes. So an Assassin doesn’t use Shadow Arts and Poisons? Where can I read up on this, I like all 3 classes.

Its less a question of ‘if’ they use them, but rather the differences between ‘when’ and ‘how’ they do.

As I said, the entire focus of an Assassin is: Get in, kill the target, and get out; being as subtle possible to avoid detection and retaliation. The tools of their trade encompass anything really, but more so things that are easy to conceal(on their person, or in the environment) so as to prevent anyone from linking them to the scene of the crime. I could definitely see an Assassin readily using poisons to accomplish a mission, especially if it was discreet enough to prevent them being caught(poison on the rim of a glass). The use of Shadow Arts(figuratively and virtually) just makes the job of getting in and out all that much easier and more subtle; for BOTH Thieves and Assassins. Thieves, on the other hand, are better known for their meticulous and calculating use of these techniques; not solely for the kill, but for the advancement of their agenda.

I can personally think of a myriad of uses for poisons: while Assassins usually just choose the deadliest of these to utilize(e.g. Basilisk Venom) for maximum efficiency, Thieves tend to be more open-minded about them. Slowing an opponent to prevent them from reaching an objective or weakening them to help out a teammate to name a few. I feel like Thieves are more geared towards team-play, control, and objectives than the whole -BURSTKILLBURSTKILL- mentality of Assassins. Venom-sharing is a perfect example of a team-oriented Thief/Rogue-like build.

Even figuratively speaking, Thieves tend to enhance the capabilities of the group; through the provision of unique skills like picking locks, disarming traps, sneaking ahead to scout, etc.; in contrast to the all-too-common ‘Lone-Wolf’ style of Assassins who care more about their contract than aiding the progress of a group. This isn’t to say that all Thieves are selfless(theres a good 50/50 split here I’d say) or that all Assassins are selfish, but they are often stereotyped as such in literature. In fact, it wouldn’t be too far-fetched to find a Thief or Assassin abusing a party’s generosity and helping them to the point where they reach their objective, only to backstab and go on their way.

I suppose I’m getting off track here, but you asked I’ve played tons of different games(MMO’s and Single-player RPG’s), read a lot of fantasy novels, browsed more than a few of the D&D game-books, and countless magazine articles; all featuring one or both types of individuals. Not that this makes me an expert in any way, shape, or form, but I’d like to think I’ve got a good portion of the whole picture after drawing from so many different resources. I’d fire up google to look at some D&D info if I were you, seeing as it is a VERY popular medium, for writers and video game designers alike, to base their productions on. Pen-&-Paper RPGs were where it all began as far as I’m concerned and they provide a wealth of information to absorb on this subject, among others. If you have any questions about specifics, I can do my best to answer in a private message… And who knows, maybe we’d both come to a new realization by putting our heads together.

Blazer Hellsing.9184:

P/P and all Pistol builds would be tPvP viable with the following changes:

1. Vital Shot: Instead of bleed, it adds 1 stack of vulnerability for 5 sec.
1.1 Sneak Attack: remains the same.
2. Body Shot: Instead of vulnerability, it adds 3-4 stacks of bleed for 6-8 sec.
3. Unload: Damage increased by 15%, fire speed increased by 20%.
4. Head Shot: Damage increased by 300% (it has to become a mid combat viable interrupt instead of an anti-rez/stomp/quickness).
5. Black Powder: Reduce the initiative cost by 1.

Agreed 100%. P/P needs something along these lines to make up for the lack of AoE. This is also the reason that most people take SB over P/P, not to mention the lack of good damage output.

Gameplay wise, Thieves are not Assassin’s either. There is a single weapon set that resembles, much less plays, even remotely like an Assassin as defined by the fantasy genre, and that is D/D. The rest of them revolve around controlling an opponent and doing either very flashy(PW, CB, Unload) or very discreet(Stealth openers, Infiltrator’s Arrow, Shadow Shot -and- Strike, Black Powder) things. Skilled Assassin’s do not execute their targets in flashy, obvious ways which allow them to be identified and hunted. Nor do these aforementioned skills, among others, lend themselves to assassinating a target gameplay wise.

Before you go spouting this nonsense about the Assassin archetype again, please go refresh your memory on fantasy history. Daggers, stealth, poisons, and moving through the shadows(literally or figuratively, it matters not) are all things originally attributed to one archetype: Rogues. Assassin’s are not iconic of their daggers, but rather their killing techniques and their ability to do so with whatever weapon they choose.

Thief gameplay is special in that it offers an incredible number of options for movement, deception, and control. They can be built to be gimmicky little one-hit-wonder glass cannons, but that is a single weapon set in a VERY SPECIFIC build that revolves around using 3 utilities(including steal) to amp up a sequence of 2 abilities for 2 shotting an adversary every 45 seconds or so. No other weapon combination available to the Thieves is capable of doing this, so trying to base an argument for them being an assassination class(around this small percentage of all the possible builds out there) is without merit.

If all you use your Steal ability for is the shadowstep, then you are missing out on the amazing utility provided by strategically choosing a target to pilfer. Stealing from Warriors for an Axe(damage), Guardians for a Mace(4 second daze!), or even a Mesmer for the Ecto(All boons) are important decisions that you need to be able to make if you want to use Steal to its full potential.

The D&D Rogue is actually the original archetype that has defined the way that this class plays in this game, among others. As bad as an example as it is, go look at Ragnarok Online. Thieves had the choice of whether to turn into an Assassin or a Rogue when they hit job level 40. They knew well enough to split those two classes, giving each their own unique and iconic sets of abilities.

And lastly, although I already refuted this: The majority of the Thieves abilities are NOT Assassin themed, but rather targeted towards the control of a battlefield, mobility, and deception. There is a small subset, being an EXTREMELY specific build, representing maybe 5-10% of the Thieves total abilities that even hints at the nature of an Assassin. If thats what you choose to play, then so be it. However, that doesn’t change the fact that this class, at its core, is based around more than just killing people. Only a handful of the abilities being suggested are leaning towards that side of things, but people REALLY need to stop with calling this class an Assassin because of a single build.

They intentionally did not name or design the Thief class like the Guild Wars 1 Assassin. They are meant to be two completely different classes. Namely, the Thief is capable of a lot more things than Assassin’s ever were.

Although using the dictionary definitions is going a bit too far on the serious side of the fantasy line, it does lend itself to the point I was making. @Blazer: You really need to read those definitions more carefully by the way, as you jumped to conclusions that simply are not written there. Those definitions, although not the ONLY way to describe it, are more of simplistic guidelines to give people a general idea of the priority placed on objectives within those lines of work. No one said that Thieves can’t fight to achieve their goals, simply that its not their speciality.

So, to clear it up a little: Thieves are capable of using force, especially when it forwards their agenda, but don’t even come close to exercising it at the same degree that Assassin’s do. Assassin’s are defined by their excessive use of force, with the killing itself often being their primary objective. Their entire existence revolves around the death of others in one way or another.

Thieves, on the other hand, are rarely(if ever) contracted to kill someone and those deaths are only consequence to the true goal of obtaining a prize for themselves or their client. They revolve around the creation of chaos, disorder, and dissention rather than blatantly slaughtering people for money. Whether they choose to sneak(stealth) to their goal, or stroll through with bravado as a distraction, Thieves are known for their guile and improvisational skills in reaching their final goal without their adversaries realizing they’ve been had. If someone gets in the way of a theft, there’s no telling what a Thief would do to achieve their objective as I’m sure it would depend on the personality of said Larcenist , but no one could put murder outside of the range of possibilities. This does not; in any way, shape, or form; mean that someone’s death is ever the primary goal of a Thief. Don’t forget to note that the definition says, “secretly or without OPEN force,” meaning that force may be used, just not in an obvious or public manner.

F.Y.I. They aren’t based around an “Assassin” archetype, but rather the “Thief” archetype with twists thrown in to differentiate.

Isn’t this thread called “Fantasy THIEF skills”? If so, then why do people keep bringing up Assassin’s when that class doesn’t exist in this game? Thieves are NOT Assassin’s, why is that such a hard concept for some people? It seems like more than half of the suggestions in here are based around the assumption that Thieves are Assassins, when in fact, they aren’t. Be more realistic or re-name the thread.

Nice video! You definitely have a good understanding of stealth mechanics. What stood out to me the most is your expert use of Shadowstep throughout the video. Very clutch gameplay. Sadly I think we lost all of those disloyal transfers from 4 weeks back that helped us win 2 weeks in a row. It’s pathetic to see people jump ship the moment things look bad. ArenaNet needs to make transfers a paid service instead of letting every Joe kittenwap when the server s/he’s on is losing.

Kurow.6973:

Didn’t you make this thread before and got bombarded by logic and was pointed out why you’re an idiot? Or was that someone else who was qqing about the same thing you are?

Different QQer, but still the same un-educated bulls hit.

edamber.1549:

OT, is that the vigil dagger?

Thats the Mystic/Inquest Dagger model.

Well, for starters, you have to make sure you’re using the right filters to get to the results you expect. I usually look for unique icons that might point to a special model as well. Above all, I keep my mind open and keep looking until I’ve exhausted all the options. Sometimes things are put in the databases wrong, so if you find one of these, you accept the fact and move on. If something has the wrong model preview, you look for the next best thing.

Don’t forget to abuse the heck out of the “Same model as” tab on the lower portion of the page

Yeah, Guildhead.com seems to have a better preview system, but if you’re looking properly you can easily find the correct models and preview them without having all the extra page loading of guildhead.

Alex.7914:

Do any of you guys have a picture of what Kenshi’s Dagger or Claw of the Desert looks like?

Go to gw2db.com and you can preview the models.

If you don’t ever plan on using it though, don’t spend the points on it. There are more than a few endgame materials, for legendaries and whatnot, that can only be bought with skill points, so I would make a conscious effort to save them over buying worthless skills.

Tulisin.6945:

Racial skills aren’t only elites, Nefarious, there are several worthwhile racial utility skills. Sylvari Seed turret, for instance, offers thieves the ability to get event credit while not present, something that non-Sylvari thieves simply can’t do.

Charr offers an extra trap-type skill, the fastest-cooldown trap in the game in fact, and great for thieves already investing in a trap/condition builds. Charr also get Battle Roar, which is unlike any thief utility skill and offers direct group buffs with a large range.

The intent is for race choice to not be unbalancing, but in actuality there are some skills with considering.

You may be right that these skills exist, but they are in no way, shape, or form comparable to the utilities provided to the thief class. Many of the thief unique abilities are too good to pass up, or are better forms of racials. Battle Roar may be the only racial that provides something that thieves don’t already have access to in one shape or another, but is it worth replacing a different utility skill with? There are already too many amazing and irreplaceable thief-only utilities to choose from, so why would you even consider taking racial utilities into account?

I never said it was the best evade skill, just that it would temporarily suffice in the WORST CASE SCENARIO. There are definitely better skills to use, there’s no question about that, but if there was literally nothing else available, why the hell not?

Devildoc.6721:

Remember, all of those on crit procs have internal cooldowns, specifically because of skills like pistol whip, unload, and 100b.

Sigil of earth used to not and pistol whip could proc bleeds like nobody’s business (unload as well) then they added the internal 2s cooldown and the sigil became worthless.

I getting on to the fact that there are more opportunities in a smaller window of time to proc any given on-crit effect in contrast to, say, the auto-attack chain. Of course that’s all dependent upon the individuals’ crit chance; with a high enough chance you’ll more than likely end up critting on your auto-attack anyways, meaning more damage overall(with the recent nerf) that can be done on the move and with less damage variation. The evade alone is worth it imho though.

Bullitt.8051:

Sure the evade on pistol whip is ok but it seems like black powder and auto attack are the better option now, the blind lasts longer and is aoe. I just don’t see a good reason to use pistol whip, maybe it’d be ok if they removed the initiative cost, but even at that I’m not sure.

Buuuuuut, don’t forget that Black Powder only pulses on targets that stay within the AoE. Making it only useful against stationary PvP(bad melee players) or PvE mobs. Worst case scenario, you can use a Pistol Whip on thin air to dodge incoming ranged attacks as you wait for your endurance to regen.

PW is awesome as an interrupt, although slightly slower than Headshot, and it causes you to evade during the swing animation. Don’t forget that on-crit effects will have more chances to apply in a smaller window to time than it takes to execute 9 regular sword swings.

The racial abilities are designed to be weaker than profession abilities in every way, shape, and form. They’re meant to be a fun little distraction and provide some variety in contrast to the normal skills given to each class. Don’t forget that racials are disabled during sPvP and tPvP, so if you’re looking for an advantage in either of those areas, you can pretty much give up on it.

Aside from any of that, not that there should be any other reason, none of the racial abilities mechanically benefit the class any more than any skill already included in the class specific selection, much less add to it visually. From a purely aesthetic perspective, I would say that Sylvari and Asura would lend themselves to the idea of being a Thief. However, lore wise, I would first and foremost personally recommend Charr, and to a lesser extent, Sylvari and Human.

Your choice, but I would definitely say that character race should have no influence aside from aesthetics or role-play.

The closest to a sawed-off that I’ve seen is the most basic pistol model in the game, which you can check out by going into the Heart of the Mists. Should be the pistol you getg by default. The other option is to go to guildhead and start looking at weapon models by search for what you see on theTP. Based on your description, the Ruinmaker is also a pretty good bet looks wise. Search either “Ruinmaker” or “Iron Flintlock” on guildhead. Dagger-wise, Claw of the Desert or maybe the Aureate(human tier 2 model) dagger would be worth looking at.

Why not just try it out haha. Also keep in mind that PvP gear only shows up in sPvP and tPvP.

Also, in PvP. Look under Free Tournaments.

InterestingJohn.3109:

I was making a general observation about the level of creativity that players in general display, not anyone specifically. Why the personal attack? That’s just uncalled for. In fact, looking at most of your recent posts, you’ve been on a trolling spree lately, what’s up with that?

I’m completely with you on this. There is definitely a general lack of originality displayed by people who play games with a high level of customization. Which is really sad actually, especially considering ALL of the options available. It’s really not for laughs either, as a poster above stated, evidenced by those individuals hastily jumping to defend their choices. I can understand if any specific look appeals to the masses, but that doesn’t make it any less sad that they lack the creativity to create something that looks unique and stands out.

Props to InterestingJohn and the other individuals who want to go outside the box with their looks! I, for one, am seeing more and more originality these days. Not to mention that 99% of the remaining AC knockoffs are pretty bad looking, especially with those over-sized shoulder pads =X

Head: Rugged Hat(PvE and PvP)
Shoulders: Emblazoned(crafted Exotic)
Chest: Commando Coat(Personal Storyline quest in Orr or ??? in PvP)
Gloves: Your choice, as the coat covers them up.
Legs: Commando Pants(same as the coat)
Boots: Same as the gloves above.

Nicomachiavelli.3046:

An exploit, in video games, is the use of a bug or glitches, rates, hit boxes, or speed, etc. by a player to their advantage in a manner not intended by the game’s designers.

Because Flanking Strike, Nine-Tailed Strike, and Shadow Assault are CLEARLY, and to use your words here, bugged or glitched and are being used in a manner not intended by the dev’s. /sarcasm

Two of those skills employ a mechanic which is referred to as ‘Evasion’ which prevents all attacks that fall within a frame of time from hitting the user. Now this mechanic is also included, no, designed around, our active Dodge button which provides damage prevention for about 1 second. However, these two skills cost 3(FS) and 5(SA) initiative each and are technically spammable due to the way that the THIEF CLASS WAS DESIGNED up to a limit, that being their initiative resource.

More specifically now: FS requires a target in order to be used reliably, as using it without a current target will send you reeling off in a direction pre-determined by the skill itself which does the player NO GOOD, aside from the initial evasion provided. No damage occurs when no target is selected unless an enemy happens to be at the ‘exit’ point of the skills animation. This one costs a third of your initiative bar for no benefit unless in range of an enemy that is currently targeted.

SA makes you evade for 3 seconds in place, doing damage to nearby enemies. This would be fantastic….if it didn’t cost half of the initiative bar to use EACH. AND. EVERY. TIME. This cost alone makes it a complete and utter waste to use for simply evading an enemies attacks.

Moving on, we have NTS which does the exact same thing as the Mesmer (4) and Warrior (5) skills: Blocks a single attack and retaliates with an after-effect. This one happens to be spammable on thieves, but it does NOT make them anywhere near invincible as the ensuing animation of X number of stabs prevents them from taking an action unless cancelled. Keep in mind that they are also NOT evading during this post-block animation.

Nicomachiavelli.3046:

Cris Croix.2370:

No thief with any measure of skill is going to sit there spamming his skills just to evade your ranged attacks.

To the contrary, I have seen at least two thieves taking advantage of the evasion on their skills and sitting on the point in ruins for well over 30 seconds if not a minute or more. The only way to hit him is sink/float. With the sharks on that map, simply turning into a bunker is an offensive move.

This is an exploit, and it’s not that hard to understand. Can’t you see that turning invulnerable for an entire minute goes far beyond imbalance and into the realm of absurdity? People exploit this flaw in the game mechanics such that they can hold the Ruins almost without fail.

It is not an imbalance. It is an exploit, and were the stakes higher in sPvP, I would be calling for bans. They’re not, though, so it just needs a fix. This can’t continue.

I’m sorry, but did you just call evasion invulnerability? I think this topic needs to be closed, as the OP seems to have a serious disconnection with game mechanics.

No thief with any measure of skill is going to sit there spamming his skills just to evade your ranged attacks. Get a second person and try pulling him towards you. Every class has ranged underwater abilities and at least one skill that can CC to some degree to deal with any number of situations underwater including thieves. Just blind his kitten and stay out of range while pelting him with whatever you like. Being good in 1v1’s does NOT mean that any given skill set provides exploitation methods. Now if his skills allowed him to get somewhere on the map that he shouldn’t normally be able to access, then that’s a completely different story, but this is in NO POSSIBLE WAY exploitation.

Nicomachiavelli.3046:

It’s a series of skills, from what I understand. Whoever designed the thief underwater combat almost certainly did not intend for this to happen. The skills were probably just meant to have evasion with no regard to how they might be used together.

An exploit is different from a bug. I use the term because the combination of skills is so obviously broken that no one in their right mind could think that this is a fair way to play. Thus, knowing that this is a broken mechanic, certain thieves continue to use these skills. That is the very definition of an exploit: taking advantage of broken mechanics.

How is evading a broken mechanic? Your dodge does the EXACT SAME THING. Maybe you should learn how to use it so you can be invincible too? Evasion will do nothing to hurt you until you get into melee range and the thief can start beating on you. You know whats comparable? A S/P Thief. I can spam Pistol Whip to do damage WHILE EVADING and lay down an AoE PULSING BLIND FIELD making it so you cant land a single attack against me while in melee range/within the field. And did I mention its a combo field so I can just shoot you while standing in it to blind you? Yeah I’d say that’s much worse than them using a single evasion skill, that costs almost half an initiative bar, more than once in a fight.

Phoenix the One.4071:

dimentox.6019:

Heres mine…

I love the cowboy / gungslinger look..

Its probably the only medium armor i can tolerate.

Where did you get that armour?:)

The ‘Commando’ Set is available as one of your three choices of reward armor for completing Thief(All medium user’s possibly?) personal story quests in all 3 of Orr’s zones. Different missions award different pieces of armor, but you’ll always be choosing between Commando, Pirate, or ‘Trooper’(Guild armor skin) with varying stats.

Actually, all those PM’s mean is there are even more wannabe’s than these pics might lead you to believe. Honestly though, who doesn’t want to look like a member of the Assassin’s Brotherhood =P

Lets get this taken care of Arenanet. Takes the fun out of WvWvW when one team can just fly in, grab something that we(as a server) EARNED fought hard for and then bug it out so we cant take them back.

InterestingJohn.3109:

I’m too lazy to go back and check :P So I’m going to take a shot and say it’s most likely the Order of Whispers Hood. It’s a hood that’s got a face mask on it. You can only get it if you’ve joined that Order.

Its definitely not the Hood of Whisper’s.

I actually google’d it and found out that there’s a random glitch that occurs when you transmute two headgear items together. Occasionally they will mesh together, and note that no one has been able to reproduce this phenomenon, and essentially look like a brand new item(while in fact its simply combining the models of the two head pieces). While the person who created the thread on Reddit claims that the model was permanent, the majority of the other individuals commenting have said that the looks were reset after they did any of the following things: Log Out/In, Zone Out/In, Un-equip/Re-equip, Toggle On/Off(headgear), and even Re-transmutation.

It also seems that the player who completes the transmutation is the only one able to actually see the combination, which a few of the posters found out after asking other players in-game.

Aside from all that, it would be awesome to be able to reliably reproduce a result like this!

Scourge.4317:

Does anyone have a picture of the dualist set on a charr? or the Nika set ( same thing ).

Make yourself a charr and go to the PvP locker in the Heart of the Mists. Its the very first set under “Medium Armors.” Don’t mind the naming conventions they use in there as the sets go by different names for PvE drops/crafting.

Kurow.6973:

The current look:

Screenshots

@Kurow: How were you able to get a mask to show up in addition to your Subtlety Hood?

Ward The Reaper.9813:

-snipped-

Why are you resurrecting this thread? All this will do is get people arguing again about whether or not thieves are overpowered. Just make a new post to ask your question/state your opinion instead of re-igniting a week old thread.

When I was specced into the trait, i noticed the heal popping up whenever the animation of whatever skill I used had finished.

No, he definitely operates as a Ranger. Guenhwyvar is as much his animal companion(pet) as any other creatures are to any number of rangers throughout the entire fantasy genre. Just because you view him as an assassin, doesn’t mean you are right, especially when almost every piece of literature and lore explicitly refer to him as a Ranger.

If you want a real assassin, look no further than Atremis Entreri. He is depicted as Drizzt’s rival in every way. Of the many things setting them apart, the ones most relevant to this thread would be(at least in my mind): their combat methods(Drizzt = Dual Scimitars, Artemis = Sword&Dagger) and their polar opposite moral compasses.

Also, ANYONE can use magical devices and be proficient at them given the appropriate time investment.

Nefarious.2014:

Where does one get the hood of whispers?

The the Level 80 Headslot available from the Order’s vendor. Obviously you have to become a member of the OoW to access and purchase said hood, but that is true for any of the 3 factions you get to choose from as part of your personal story.

Xecil is right. It’s the duelist set which becomes available at level 80 as an Exotic set. Of course with Fine Transmutation Stones and alot of cash, you can get them as early as you want.

Nefarious.2014:

What hood are some of these people wearing…. not the anonymity one, but the hood with a mask underneath?

See “ColdSpyder.9082” or “Regulate” above…

Its the Hood of Whisper’s. There is another one available from a dungeon set called the Inquest Hood.

Anasi Jykoor: 80 Thief

-Anonymity Hood
-Whisper Chest
-Falconer’s Shoulder(Human Tier 2)
-Duelist Gloves
-Seeker Pants
-Swindler Boots

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

~Ocean, Charcoal, and Mithril Dyes~

Head: Subtlety Hood
Shoulders: Prowler
Chest: Duelist
Hands: Prowler
Legs: Unsure
Boots: (edit) Swindlers

There is an Exotic armor set by the name of “Duelist” that has the same looks as the armor worn by the Human and Norn thieves in their respective character creators.

If you search in the TP for “Duelist” and search for only armor and filter out only Exotics, you’ll be guaranteed to find one. Note that they range from a few silver to over a gold and require level 70+(Unless you plan to transmute).