Guild Wars 2

dont forget that you dont have to worry about speccing badly as you can untrain your skills and traits cheap and easy.

not to mention that each time you buy a book it untrains all your traits.

i dont know if they changed it but there was no downed penalty from vapor form in spvp. that may be confusing people.

but seriously. Its a powerful ability.
so try to not use it right away.
use 1 as long as you can.
then vapor away.
then 3 to root them and damage them. I doesnt work all that often for me but if i can root the enemy at a distance they cant hit me but they are bleeding and getting killed.

when i play my mesmer and use the teleport ability i keep expecting that my health will jump back up like the ele does. but it doesnt.

warrior vengence is pretty powerful too if i can get the kill while in vengence to remove the vengence death effect.

can you use lightning flash in the middle of burning speed to get a ~1200 range burning speed???

I think for me the issue was that the class was so squishy in comparison.
A lot of times i was left trying to figure out what happened. Thats not really different than a lot of other games but its just that in this game the ele is lowest on the straight up defense chart.

Makes it hard to learn the combo that are needed to live.

i played a theurgist in daoc a long time ago. I played it like crap but in comparison the ele is considerably easier just due to more effective spells and less options. There is also the bountiful training available in GW2. mists and full level 80 in spvp.
i can see what the ele is capable of very quickly… at least more quickly…

sounds like you should bug it yeah.

pretty sure i see this when i get network lag. hit the button and nothing happens. not specifically on healing rain though…

are you sure that no other effects are getting this. what i will see is no effect or a very short duration of the effect.

sounds like lag

I hit this stage in the learning curve too.

its understandable. if you can stick it out keep pushing.
good luck. once i got passed this stage i did not look back.

it may be that build mirroring thing they do where there can be two versions of the game running at the same time.
check the build version. its on the login page i think?

aw that would be sad if that changed. that tactic is fun.
maybe someone stomped a dev in a zerg and vapored back to a keep.

Which conjure you use.
Ax
where you use. (pve/wvw/spvp/dungeons)
spvp
your impression of your skill level with it.
medium
the basic tactic around the use.
after initial d/d combo from water generally
the specific combinations.
just the ax really. 4/5/2/3/1 or drop
Build used as its relevant and why.
pretty much standard dagger dagger cantrip with ax instead of armor of earth.
also air1 to pick up the aura buffs off of the 4 and 5 combo.

Which conjure you use.
icebow
where you use. (pve/wvw/spvp/dungeons)
pve
your impression of your skill level with it.
noob
the basic tactic around the use.
single target opener generally drops mobs before they get to me.
the specific combinations.
5/4/2/3/as little as possible 1
Build used as its relevant and why.
generally i take waters +20% damage on vulnerable targets. icebow #2 with this is a natural combo

Which conjure you use.
greatsword
where you use. (pve/wvw/spvp/dungeons)
wvw
your impression of your skill level with it.
noob
the basic tactic around the use.
3 and 4 for travel
also throw the initial cast on walls and try to rain fire on walls with 5.
the specific combinations.
none
Build used as its relevant and why.
no real preference

Took me a couple of hundred spvp games to start getting how to play the ele. Took another of couple of hundred games to start getting when and where to use the flame ax and great sword. I may be a little slow in this respect…

Anyway no QQ here please. Please dont say how you dont use them and keep gripes to a minimum save where they are deficient in the specific way you use them.
Just the facts maam. How do you use conjures?

I have heard some interesting takes on how to use lightning flash with the ice bow offensively.
I have some personal basic understanding of how the ax fits with auras and what not.

But to keep it simple

1. Which conjure you use.
2. where you use. (pve/wvw/spvp/dungeons)
3. your impression of your skill level with it.
4. the basic tactic around the use.
5. the specific combinations.
6. Build used as its relevant and why.

videos are gold.
Please also link references to other threads if needed.

well consider leaving ax the way it is. although arcane ax sounds cooler, how about about an arcane great sword? Or arcane dagger for elite.
“You shall not pass!”

I supposed that double tap would work… i was a little discouraged to use it initially as the double tap does not feel natural to me.
ill try working on that.

I have actually been trying to start trying to use the bow myself as it too has a .25 second cast time like the ax. what initially drew me away from that was the immobile casting of 4 and 5.
Seems you found a way around that.
there was another thread about the staff bunker build and the proposed chill build that got me to appreciate the effect of the projectile finisher on bow skill 2.

that alone is a fairly powerful ability.

In pve the bow seems very powerful against single targets that i have the jump on. feels a lot like a typical mage using the bow.
drop them before the get to me.

It seems to me that i have tried that build you are talking about and it did work some although i still feel more powerful in a standard build.

I have not really tried much with the bow in spvp but i think it has potential.

how do you deal with the ground target with the conjures initial cast?

in my humble opinion there are not any builds better than a straight up d/d cantrip setup outsde of staff bunker and such. however replacing armor of earth with the ax does work. it reduces some defense for more offense.
so some things that i have tried are
25 air for vulnerabilty on crits fury with auras and one other air skill.
30 water with one water skill being +20% damage
and 15 arcane.
however a build around 10 air 30 water and 30 arcane is still better overall.
thats not a problem exactly with the ax. its just how the ele works.
the ax itself is not a new profession and it should not be i do not think. it doesnt and should not replace all my other abilities. i get where you are coming from but i think your angle of attack there is inaccurate. thats a problem with the ele overall not with the ax. whenever the ax is not out i need to be effective and i dont think any amount of reasonable changes to the conjures in general will change that.

the ax can be pretty effective using a standard dagger/dagger build. run through the initial combo and then cast the ax rather than use an auto attack or run away.
what hinders that is the ground target cast of the ax which greatly slows down the weapon.
greatsword is almost completely locked out of that playstyle due to its cast time and the need to stand still.

I dont think you are being abrasive. I just want to know that you know how to use the weapons. I surely should have been more upfront with that and i appologize.

This is about both issues. how to make them better and how to use them.

In order to propose useful changes you have to indicate where you use them and how they are deficient there. You have to demonstrate that you have some skill there. The ele is hard to learn. the conjures are no different. I have over 100 spvp games using conjures when i decided to try and learn them. what do you have?

I want to talk to you about how you use the ax. where you use it. what your actual issues are with it. not just what you want to change. “I dont use it because” is not good enough. I am not trying to be a jerk.

lets look at just the statement that ax is overshadowed by greatsword.

greatsword can not be cast on the run.
has 3x’s the cool down.
it has at least one skill that requires the user to stand still.
it has burst but its slow to bring it off.

the ax is fast in all respects.
it does pretty good damage for an ele.
it has ele style burst.
it has no stand still to cast requirements. neither in skill nor cast.
it has a built in aura.
it has a roll back dodge.
I would not mind seeing the ae case on ax 2 to be not ground targeted.

In almost every combat situation i would rather cast the ax than the greatsword.
In combat casting the greatsword will generally kill me because i have to stand there for a second casting it unless i use up lightning flash or mistform and the damage it puts out after its cast is not bursty enough to stand still.
However its pretty good for objects and moving around wvw save that i can not use it in emergencies as standing still for a second will generally kill me.

you want to change the ax all together. I dont think the ax needs any great changes. maybe some tweaking and balancing and all the weapons need some casting changes. Otherwise it has skills that compliment dagger/dagger pretty well.

swapping might be good but it drastically changes how the weapons work.
Is that a good idea? I dont know… maybe. who knows. seems like it but its untested and will greatly change how they work. It makes sense to me that they would work better that way but hell i may not be using the conjures correctly now and if i were i might see that this change would break them. there may be a very effective way to use them that i just havent figured out. the ele is complicated.

so lets be realistic.

Can we agree that there is an issue with the casting of the weapons and that the stand still requirements are very bad?

I dont think that they are unviable. I think the ele has some general build restrictions which makes it hard to use ANY build outside of a 30water 30 arcane setup.

so what is the most viable build for an ax conjure.

what is incinerator?
wait looked it up
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Incinerator

never have seen it… i dont think i have seen one legendary weapon so far

i like most of the suggestions here in regards to the ax… which is very minor. my shield, bow, and hammer, skills are pretty weak.

this is my $.02 on how to make the casting more friendly

i would like the conjure skill change into a two step skill. like other skills where the first time the key is pressed i get one ability and the next press does something else.
in this case id like:
first press to just give me the weapon.
second press then allows a ground target to put down the second weapon.
this change alone would go a long way to making the conjure faster to bring out and effectively more useful.

the other piece i would not mind seeing changed is the cooldown reduced for the number of charges left on the weapon when “dropped”
this would be a fairly drastic change to how the conjures are used.
basically 1 charge used causes a cd of 4 secs for a total of 60 seconds when the weapon is all used up. this would put the CD at the time the weapon is discarded rather then when summoned.
the ground target version would need some incentive to cast although i never use the weapon to give to other people.
maybe take charges to cast a second version.
or give a 60 second cooldown on the whole skill and add charges to the conjure in hand when cast.
the fire trait that adds charges would make it so not only do i have more charges but only about 2 seconds of CD is incurred for each charge used.

ax is the conjure that goes easiest with d/d
because its fast to cast and fast to use and has dd friendly skills. it also has light impact on the build by swapping out armor of earth.
try using it.

You can spec for the conjure without taking specific conjure traits.

i use fast ground targeting to keep the cast time of the ax down to .25 seconds.

Rump Buffalo.2594:

im glad conjures work for you the way they are…

they doesnt make them good, viable, or worth while in a build

tell me how you use the conjures so i can see where you are coming from.
if you dont currently use them then start.
replace one utility that you dont absolutely have to have.
like arcane wave for staff maybe or armor of earth for d/d

I would suggest ax or bow as the conjure as the others have a rather slow cast time.

i have used the flame ax for a few hundred non tournament spvp games and some leveling.
i would consider myself not a noob as to how at least the ax and the flaming great sword work.

i would like the conjure skill change into a two step skill. like other skills where the first time the key is pressed i get one ability and the next press does something else.

in this case id like:
first press to just give me the weapon.
second press then allows a ground target to put down the second weapon.

this change alone would go a long way to making the conjure faster to bring out and effectively more useful.
the ax itself has a 1/4 second cast time. almost enough to have an almost instant effect. currently i use fast ground targeting which works but still has a few situations where i get out of range and delays the cast not to mention messes with other skills that need more precise aim.

the other piece i would not mind seeing changed is the cooldown reduced for the number of charges left on the weapon when “dropped”
this would be a fairly drastic change to how the conjures are used.
basically 1 charge used causes a cd of 4 secs for a total of 60 seconds when the weapon is all used up. this would put the CD at the time the weapon is discarded rather then when summoned.

the ground target version would need some incentive to cast although i never use the weapon to give to other people.
maybe take charges to cast a second version.
or give a 60 second cooldown on the whole skill and add charges to the conjure in hand when cast.

the fire trait that adds charges would make it so not only do i have more charges but only about 2 seconds of CD is incurred for each charge used.

sure but there are some basics like turning of auto target and melee assist which are very useful for the ele.
some of the skills like ride the lightning are kitten hard to use to the full ability with those things turned on.

thanks Kaleden. I guess i did take that information as quite as literally as it describes in the wiki and such.
strange as sigils appear to effect the downed state where there is no visibly equipped weapon.

the on kill stacking sigils did not work?
did you see if they reset to 0 when using the conjure?

there is also the aspect of running away. the ele is so kitten slippery.
One encounter i had in wvw.
saw someone running down the road with no sign of bad guys.
started my attack run.
got through churning earth and an enemy thief added.
i got… scared and made a break for it.
only find a whole kitten zerg about 3k range away from me running the opposite direction.
they started to chase me.
they tagged me a few times.
i cleared those conditions when i could.
greenvale to the weather control island…
outran them all.
it would have been much sweeter to turn and attack the stragglers but… too noob to do it.

maybe it would reasonable to add a function the attunment changing that automatically unequips the conjure.
although again there are situation where i attunment dance for bonus’s while using the conjure. or my timing is off and i want to run the conjure from water but cast it backwards

one of the uses of conjures is the ability to use them from ANY atunment and get that atunmnets bonus’s.
so no i dont like it.

the one change i would like to see is…
a two part cast on the conjure.
one cast gets just me the weapon.
the second part give a ground target to cast it wherever.
both trigger the full cool down.

For changes i would like to see a charge regen rather than a skill cool down.
so that the weapon can be cast over and over but must remain unqquipped to get its charges back with a default charge rate of a full charge in 60 seconds. then fire trait to add charges would add charges and still give a full recharge in 60 seconds.

The second part of the spell would have to something attractive to make it sensible to cast. like casting the ground target version refills charges on the personal version but puts a 60 second cooldown on the skill.

my real only issue with the conjure are the ground target on cast.
and some of the requirements to stand still whiel casting.
id like to see the FGS stand still to cast requirement removed.

frostflare.6390:

I am not sure if anyone has mentioned this. I’ve yet to try it out personaly, but the other day in a battle one of the eles in my group had a focus. He was also very good with timeing and was able to use Swirling Aura to completly nulify 3 balistas and a trebuchet blast on our gate and gave us sometime to regroup.

It’s probably not the best weapon in teh game to run with in some situations. But if your defending a gate from heavy fire, A swirling aura can do wonders in keeping seige off you for a few moments, if only for your team to regroup.

Also I runs taff 24/7 in wvw and pve. Nothing like dropping meteors on a zerg!

I have heard of it being effective but it did not occur to me to use it to defend the keep walls and doors.

What else goes through the door without getting the ele killed?

quite a number of people have posted guides for various things but no stickies.
Why not?

There is some very basic information that all nooby eles need to know and it has been explained over and over and yet no stickies for this information

what do we need to do to get things stickied?

solutions not QQ

good info.
I rarely use shield but it does feel like utility to me which is kinda cool for a utility slot.
however the abilities are, as all ele skills, hard to learn i think.

The shield skills must have a place to work.

Likely a better place for it would be over arcane wave.
although if it has one blast finisher it would be a better fit.
I think either ax or ice bow would be better for spvp combat. .25 second cast time vs .75 second for hammer or shield.
for a bunker ele ice bow would be a more likely candidate. healing boost and projectile finisher for regeneration frost volley which means it would deal damage and stack up 10 seconds of regeneration assuming the water field would last long enough.

Navi.7142:

Weird.
But thanks anyway for your reply.

training.
updraft put you in perfect range for burning speed. +10 experience points for you!

dagger/dagger defense is not that bad.
i use that vapor form thing to get back to the keep often enough.
I understand not wanting to put in a possible future nerfed skill into the guide but…

I use dagger dagger on keeps and hunt for downed enemies.
just because it makes me feel powerful.
RTL/stomp/mistform/ try to get back into keep. vapor form as needed.

I also use FGS at keeps. 1200 range on the cast allows me to throw it up on walls and it burns. i have got at least one kill that way in my few times in wvw.
if the keep walls are not too high the conjure attacks can hit siege.

magnetic shield can pull people off of walls and such too.

kitten is the default “bad word” filter replacement. its a very aggressive filter.

I have used it in spvp some. my only decent skill set is around d/d but i did find that dagger/focus feels a lot like dagger/dagger in its skill flurry.

I would atuntment dance for damage and might and then bring out the ax or FGS. it did get me some kills but having only done a few times it just does not compete with dagger/dagger skills.

I switch to dagger/focus in wvw sometimes when i want a more stationary defensive setup.

i have also used this in pve and the one thing i have to say about this setup is that it was “fun”. I dont know why as i am still way better with dagger/dagger but nonetheless the action is still fast.

@sachiel thanks for the video!

if you hit lag it will mess up your casting a good deal.
i imagine there are people that are amazing with clicking but… using keys is so much faster once you get a feel for where the buttons are.

the ele often requires so much skill manipulation that .5 sec delay in launching a skill is fairly critical in their use.

some do. the ones that stack on kills seem to. at least they do not reset that i recall.
I would swear that they all do but I havent looked.

i was on a keep wall with my level 40 or so ele in wvw.
one of the attackers went down.
i jumpped off.
rode the lightning to them
started the stomp.
mist form
stomped.
picked up loot.
then vapor formed back to the keep.

@curring… awesome!

use a default cantrip build in spvp and work on the combos.
0/10/0/30/30
armor of earth, mist form, lightning flash.

in wvw you just cant compete with so few hitpoints at low levels

i used dagger dagger in wvw and do suicide stomps. see someone downed. ride the lightning to them. stomp and go into mist form while stomping then run away. vapor form back to safety when if you can.

you can vapor form through keep portals so as long as you are not too far out you can get back to safety.

I dont need to stay in a conjure forever.
i use them just as long as i need. then i ditch them.
just like i do with attunments. they work almost identically in the short term.

where do you use conjures?

mjharrison.3209:

The OP is right – conjures are a waste of time for as long as they replace your 20 weapon skills with 5 mediocre ones that you can’t swap between.

seriously… each time you swap atunments you block out 15 other abilities.
with maybe 2 or 3 of the 5 that you are likely to use.
And you block them out for longer than the conjure will. Or at least 5 skills for longer. if you have the conjure out for longer than it takes to get back to what you need to cast… you’re doing it wrong.

what you really replace is 1 utility slot. Thats not a minor issue. ele needs all of their utility to work with their build.

currently a person has to be really good with ground targetting to get the conjures to actually be a .25 cast.
or use fast ground targetting.

i plan on playing all of the characters. i already have an 80 warrior.
the game has an interesting learning curve

Death Reincarnated.3570:

Depends on your play style.

If you prefer 1v1 more often then D/D.

If you prefer 1v2+ more often then Staff.

I think both of these are extremes of what particular gameplay style you like – while mixing scepters/focus/etc was probably meant to be something in between, however, either it does not work as intended, or, people just like to go either of the extremes.

yeah i think the issue there is that the extreme is just more well known.

I have messed around with the rarely used dagger/focus in both pvp and pve and its entertaining but i after 400 spvp games… i am a lot better at dagger dagger.

someone posted earlier saying the glyph was busted so that you only get the condition of the atunment the glyph was cast in.
There may be some kind of similar bug with the trait… not sure how that would work but maybe it gets stuck on the element it gets its first crit in?

I have heard the percentage is 10% before.

hmmm it sounds like you could throw the ice bow in there somewhere.
being already chilled would make it easier to cast the deep freeze which has a pulsing chill on it.
it also has that additional %20 condition duration.

Do it with D/D but do not limit yourself to d/d
you will learn how the ele functions and wont be completely owned if you decide to go into spvp or wvw. not that staff bunker does not work but im guessing people are not going to spec bunker in pve by default.

I would like to see something like this done to conjures as well.
make the skill a 2 step skill.
hit it once and i get the weapon with no ground target.
if i drop it then it goes away and the CD is reduced depending on the number of charges left in the weapon.
hit it again while holding the weapon and i get ground target when i can cast the second weapon which starts the full CD.

then i get a sort of weapon swap effect and in fact i could use the weapon swap button to clear it. Hell go all out and tie it into the weapon swap like has said been said over and over but…
hit it once it clears it. hit is again and it recasts it for my personal use just as if i had pressed the button. the CD has to have timed out for the recast.

cast the axe. use 3 charges. swap it out. instead of 60 second cool down its about a 10 second cool down. hit weapon swap again when that timer has expires to cast it again or just hit the skill. weapon swap just remembers the last conjure used.

hit the actual skill button while holding the axe to get the ground target cast and get a full CD.

also tie in arcane so that the arcane skill increases the recharge rate of the ax.

yeah i like that better.
in stead of a cool down on the weapon recast give it a recharge rate enhanced by the arcane skill.
so i can cast and swap the conjure over and over until it runs of out charges. when its not in my hands it recharges to get a full charge by 60 seconds.
Then the fire trait that adds 10 more charges would instead bump the recharge rate.

casting the ally version of the weapon reduces the recharge for 60 seconds.

the main issue with conjures are
ground targetting which makes them slow to cast.
several have skills that require no movement which is just hard and dangerous to use.
flaming great sword has to stand still to cast which limits it use tremendously.
they drop easy.
hit the weapon swap button and they are gone.
hit water for a swim for a split second gone.
mist form gone.
down gone.
If weapon swap just dropped the weapon that would be OK too.

if I could move while using the bow ae and the deep freeze i could use it with d/d more aggressively. same with the FGS.

Rump Buffalo.2594:

Encaladus.5291:

Rump Buffalo.2594:

Lava axe is still overshadowed by fiery greatsword

this is because greatsword is an elite, while lava axe is a noraml utility

also yes conjures do WORK, but they are severely limiting to the user and have also NO traits to go with them besides the one in fire where they gain more charges. Conjure builds, for those reasons, are simply non-existent in any viable way.

All traits apply to conjures just like they do to equipped weapon skills. or they should where the traits are not broken.

ax does more damage than most of the normal weapon skills + a lot of movement.

they surely could use some work as they have some glaring short comings but I forced myself to use them and found that the ax is the easiest more fluid one.

Conjures surely could use more tweaking but they are not broken.
What they are is hard to learn. Just like most of the ele.

you can use conjures from any element.
so for instance I have worked with a 0/25/0/25/20 to get vulnerability on crits and use waters +%20 damage while target is vulnerable. +auras + waters +2% per boon.
conjures can be mixed and matched all that way.
ax has a built in aura combo.

I was going to post the same but im too lazy.

I would also like to see more forum work in regards to sticking guides and whatnot.

I was going to respond but there are too many of these posts about making conjures work.
They do work. Lava ax works well with d/d. i use it in spvp and pve.
There are only 2 things simply wrong with conjures as they stand.
ground target.
many require standing still to cast.

standing still stops the ele tank and that is deadly. Anything that requires me to stand still had better make up for the chance im taking. most conjures dont.
all ax casts are mobile.