Guild Wars 2

at level 30 before i knew how to use D/D i was using scepter/focus in AC.
this worked pretty well.
Even got cudos for healing… comboing off of ranger water fields.
no EA.

the defensive utility and CC in scepter/focus feels nice. However i like the play style more of dagger/focus. weird i guess but i liked it when i tried it.
I am working on some concepts of a dagger/focus aura conjure build.

It actually feels like dagger dagger some as I am running around all over trying to unload aura and combos.

I got this to work once so far in keep defense.
see someone go down.
jump off and RTL to them.
stomp into mist form.
vapor form back…

I have done this once during stand offs as well but vapor forming back to the line or relative safety. It feels a little cheap but cool at the same time.

It was cool. I have to say i rather like the ele at keep defense and stand offs.
being able to vapor back into the keep makes keep defense kind of fun.
I know it has ethics issues but it was “fun”.

written in stone is too high in the trait tree or fires embrace is.
in my humble opinion the signet/aura build should be able to get 25 water for the damage boost that auras can give.
written in stone, fires embrace, and air 1 fury and speed with auras.
and that is totally ignoring arcane.

that combination being so far out of reach is a real shame.

Also firesembrace working with signets that have a rather long cast time for all but one of them makes that spec a little hard to use.

a second is a pretty long time when i can take all or most of my HP in the time it takes to cast one signet. Firesembrace would be a lot more sexy if reduced or removed the cast time on signets. Or maybe worked with arcane to give a cast reduction based on attunment speed.

signet of air is the most useless signet save that it has no cast time.

Blaine Tog.8304:

BlueprintLFE.2358:

This has been an issue with our profession from the beginning. Our stat allocation is pretty much dictated to us from creation. Low base health and lowest armor forces eles to either trait defensively or gear defensively. I don’t know any eles out there running 10-12k bad health build/gear set ups.

I tested a 30/30/0/0/10 build in Orr the other day, just to see how it would play out. Even with my mixed-stat gear, it ended disastrously. Against ordinary mobs I was kinda ok, but as soon as I tried to help fight the Priest of Melandru I just got myself two-shotted over and over.

The boss mobs seems to cause me the most problems. the regular and veteran mobs i just fight and not get hit but the boss mobs… even one hit is a down, death, or just out of the fight to heal.

Hp’s just do not scale well. The difference between 21k and 13k HP in this game is pretty drastic. Still….
i played some old school DAOC and casters suffer the same issue there only worse as they could not cast while being hit.

I think the ele is just weak like a caster but fights like a light tank. I dont think that is a bad thing. Dagger dagger ele is pretty cool play style.

Ele has a few different ways to mitigate damage.
As an ele noob i always did better with more HP.

For PVE at level 60 i have 30 water, 20 air, and then the rest will go into arcane.
at level 40 i had 20 air and 10 arcane. this was still a pretty effect pve setup. the dagger dagger ele deals with most damage by simply not taking it.

The combination of mistform/ ether renewal is a huge part of my play style.
I went through the other two heals for a long while but i dont think they compare to what that combination is capable of in terms of staying alive for general usage.

I use dagger dagger mostly but at lower levels i was using scepter/focus. the invulnerability offered there helpped me quite a lot. what i could take on level 15 mobs at 10.

I have an 80 warrior that can pretty much can not be killed by a single at level mob so i understand how fragile the ele feels… however the ele kills things way faster than my warrior does.

speaking for flame axe scaling…
in spvp it hits hard compared to most ele attacks when comboed with auras.

From 40 to 60 i feel it has stayed pretty consistently damaging in pve but i have no numbers on it.

just made 60 in wvw last night. been playing mostly spvp with the ele.

last night i was seeing that i use shocking aura while in RTL i did not get the boons from auras. that is likely an old issue though.

Creslin.1758:

Kilger.5490:

D/D in wvwvw is a suicide bomber. You go in, you unleash hell, you leave a corpse behind.

Not that I would recommend this…but you could just mistform -> ether renewal -> lightning flash away -> RTL when mistform ends, and then repeat once it’s done.

Not-so-suicide bomber. But I think that wouldn’t be the best build because you would be extremely dependent on CD’s for survival.

i do this in wvw often enough.
go through a whole d/d opener and vapor from back to the line if needed.
i had no real trouble with survival in wvw. this was at level 40 with 13k hp as well.
not to mention cruddy equipment. was using AC dungeon armor.

generally i do the opposite.
go in with primary weapons to setup the conjure.
generally roll through all primary atunements getting buffs and using the high CD normal stuff and then hit water for the conjure.

well i dont know now. here i am a hammer noob… I did not suspect that much difference between the conjures but i guess it doesnt surprise me that there is.

I would go high power and toughness.

Lordryux.9785:

u guys are still forgetting that in order to make the conjure even remotely useful u gotta put points into fire traits for the added 10 more charges sadly..

naw I Have not needed +10 charges.

I consider a build like this to be 5 attunments with one wild card attunment that i dont need to switch to.
but im not a hammer expert.
I use ax and flaming great sword mostly. ax more so.

consider glyph of elemental power and arcane power.

I have been working on something like this…
PvE only.
http://www.gw2db.com/skills/calc/elementalist#3|17|1150|628|1132|3975|1027|0|0|0|0|30|1887|1619|1888|10|2257|0|0|30|1683|2260|1687|0|0|0|0|0|0|0|0|0|0|0|0|0|0|0|0|0|0|0|0|

auras…
+~80% damage on knocked down almost dead folks with chilling and critical damage on top of that
bumping up power and toughness and relying more on arcane power for the crit chance.
actually is arcance power considered a critical hit or just critical damage??? i am guessing critical hit.

problem with this is movement… the build is slow.

this is an old bug. its in the bug sticky

Kardiamond.6952:

@maddoctor

Well the issue we are talking about is only affective WvW, so I was taking in account WvW use only.

Negative. this can be done in the foefire spvp map as well. Well effective is another story but anyway thats where i experienced it.

I know my vapor form has been rooted once or twice. its pretty rare. specifically by that ranger binding roots thing.

the low hit points, low armor, low single skill damage, no i win buttons ( or highly situational i win buttons), and difficulty in landing the higher damage skills make the class brutal to learn. kitten hole loving brutal.

for me this made it seem like nothing was good enough on the ele. In fact i have a post about this somewhere about not taking any spec points and doing about the same in spvp as with spec points.

combine that with bugs and such…

the ele learning curve gets to a point where it seems like nothing works.
But the problem was in fact me ( and bugs) but i sure hell did not think so… lol

I will agree though that the learning curve on the ele is kitten high and maybe even too high as it reduces the “fun” factor to a pretty large degree.
after near 400 spvp games and several hours in the mists trying stuff, most of the class I dont know how to use effectively.

lack of fun factor is a big deal. i can take a lot of pain if i like what im doing and it appears to take a long long time to get to the point of where it doesnt feel like work.

OldRodKS.9758:

boozer.7815:

I suggest you try this out on some dummies in the Mist with D/D.

How do you do this? I’ve been to the Mists once and didn’t really see how to try out different builds, but I didn’t really know where to look. Also, is there any kind of combat logging so you can try out different builds and analyze them for DPS, etc.?

you can turn on your combat text and watch the damage. you can switch up your builds whenever you are out of combat in the mists.
there are dummies and npc classes to practice on. just rrun around a bit and you will see them. golems.
i would get all the jewels from the merchants, which are free, and a few different sets of runs and sigils and swap around to see what i liked.

There are also the boss mobs and minions to practice on.

however… i found that what works in the mists is not always so great in spvp. in the mists i tend to spec more pve like. glass cannon stuff which doesnt work so good in actual play. so dont forget the basics.
toughness.
condition removal
hp’s

and most important… ease of use.
since the ele can die in one hit its important to not have to think too much about it. at least it was for me.

Kilger.5490:

I like the ax too, was looking at it for my d/d build since it gives you 900 range. Other than that.. meh.

yeah… i dont know that its better than a non conjure build but its different…
but it does help with low arcane builds. gives a few seconds of cool down.

TGSlasher.1458:

Frost bow is good to take, not to use as a main weapon, the cds are way to long and you will die.

Flame axe 5 is 15 sec burn, good to carry, apply super burn then drop, again cds to long. The only one with cds in a nice place that I have found is the greatsword, also an elite

(\(\ ;; /)/)

its true but the auto attack on the ax is pretty good and it doesnt last long anyway so the cooldowns are not that big of deal.
fire/leap/roll/explode/auto or drop.

dagger/dagger is hard to master but it feels right when it all come together. the other weapon combinations don’t make as much sense but i suspect all of the combinations have pretty good ability.

but not having any hitpoints is a bear. got stick and move. stick and move.

well just use it.
consider it a valid ability.

It will be interesting to see 20 ele’s jump down and go through a dagger rotation on the folks on the door every minute or so. the range on vapor form is pretty limited.

Moddo.7105:

What I would like to see is per toon keybindings. Having to remap keys when swap toons sucks.

thats the beauty of using the nostromo and a naga.
dont have to remap keys simply because all of the keys are easy to get to.

the difference is that the ele is downed.
It will have a larger outrage factor than people just avoiding damage.
but yeah there is a counter. It does feel cheap when i have done it to avoid death or stomp.

I think you all are missing the point.
but i think it is wise to expect a nerf here. Something like the mist form can not go through doors. hopefully they dont go overboard as nerfs tend to do.

I have done this in the spvp foefire map with the gates.
not over and over but certainly to almost complete safety from down.

yeah its not completely infallible. roots will root the mist form.
Also consider that you could combine this with damaging mists and do a little AE damage going in and out.

the argument isnt about glass cannons and what not.

whats better? 10 fire or 10 air?
or 10 air and 10 fire vs 20 in either one.
id say earth and air have better traits. more defense and more utility and more synergy. synergy being pretty important to the ele.
but what do i know.

remember that conjures do not change traits. they work just like you had a new weapon in your hand save that you dont get different abilities when changing atunements.

Meaning + damage traits effect them just like normal weapons.
when a trait says “all your water spells” or fire or what not that just means while in that atunement. when a conjure is being used from water all of its abilities are water based spells for the purposes of the traits.

sometimes that isnt clear. so… there it is. This is a big deal as you can build around the attunement you expect to use the conjure from.

I am pretty sure that swirling winds is also not friendly.
It may be visual but i am pretty sure it destroys the flame bolts from the great sword autoattack.

I really like going through uncharted lands to get to various points of the personal story.
i achieved the same thing when i was exploring for dungeon way points or hear it from friends that are going hunting for cooking matts.

searching for routes and doing events and quests i come across. It makes the world feel more alive rather than a repeating script.

However if i have a way point to the area near the story i generally use it.

I would like more of that i think. Perhaps as something of an option in the story.
One of the options would explain that a long journey to somewhere is needed.

Exploring the world is fun and the story integrates that in with exploration. I dig that play style.

also look for the lightning hammer pve builds.
I havn’t used that yet as i have been doing mostly spvp… my ele is barely 50 actually…
Spvp have been so useful for L2P.

replace armor of earth with flame ax in any cantrip build. I know its hard to do but if you force yourself to it works in spvp. better than a standard d/d build.. i cant say. for me its about the same.
the ax has 1/4 sec summon time, mobility, auras, fire field, good damage, range, and ae damage. it also cause burn at 1200 range on cast.
the burn at range is nice when… there is someone at range particulary when they are at a hard to reach place.
IMHO its the best d/d ele weapon as it has a built in GTFO maneuver.

I use it in spvp with d/d.
Great sword is not a good d/d pvp weapon as it has stand still to cast and a long cast time. I still use it though. its good against doors and such.

but…
i use this in spvp and pve sometimes
http://www.gw2db.com/skills/calc/elementalist#3|3|1150|628|3984|1848|1027|0|0|0|0|25|1887|1617|0|0|0|0|0|30|2261|2260|2259|15|2250|0|0|0|0|0|28041|28016|53505|53505|53505|53505|53505|25790|48792|0|0|0|0|
try to run the conjures from water but otherwise play like a normal d/d build without armor of earth. it has a few logic issues but… it works well enough.

currently im trying to learn staff. i have d/d down pretty good. The single fight end game in d/d still eludes me a bit.

basically i try to think of the conjures, the ax anyway, as utility for when im in a dps or movement lull.

Conjures compensate for low arcane. run the conjure from water while other things are recharging.
it is not recommened for general use but fast ground targetting helps me out with the conjures. for d/d they need to be fast and selecting a ground target is just not fast.

MindlessRuff.1948:

Well we need the “~” button to drop conjures, I use it myself quite often.

+1 I have it mapped to my nostromo though… dont actually ever touch that ~ key in game but hit the weapon swap often enough to drop conjures and such.

funny thing is that these aura builds go well with conjures.
cause vulnerability with signets, +20% damage on vulnerable targets, +2% per boon and run the conjures from water for regen. lowers the group healing and condition removal ability some

I am guessing that powerful auras will someday work with all auras.

its a shame that taking written in stone and powerful auras, and fires embrace is not possible.
it would be interesting if one of those abilities was on a lower trait tier.
being able to do a 10/10/20/20/0 and get all of the above and + aura traits would make auras more attractive on their face.

signets are just slow. if they were instant I would like them so much more. well i guess air signet is instant but all of the others are at least 3/4 of a second which is too long for the short effect they give or while in pvp. at least for me.

the passive on air signet is almost completely useless for most ele builds.

nostrmo + naga
12345
67890
f1-f4
directional pad, jump and weapon swap
on the nostromo

targeting, pickup, and a few extra buttons on the number pad
on the naga.

if they bumpped it to 25% id take it. but as is… 5 points in air gives almost the same effect.
i dont think i have ever taken winborn dagger. it has no sexy as all.

i was contemplating something like this but not with focus… interesting.

i was so discouraged by not being able to take 25 water with fires embrace, written in stone, and zyphers boon. thats like the combo there.

also signet are so slow.

MindlessRuff.1948:

JuniorSB.7089:

Oh, I hadn’t looked at your post lol. How effective is the frost bow when you play? Is it good for 1v1?

1v1 it is good for point control, stand in the middle of the point, you can add armour of earth for extra insurance, then call down the AOE volley and they have to blow their dodges to leave the point or take a TON of direct and condition damage, if they do dodge to escape this opens up an opportunity for a deep freeze, it is also sick if you and a team both use the volley on a point, and there are plenty of chances for big plays if you use it right.

I have not used the bow much as it has all those stand still skills which i have a hard time doing. but… i can see how it could be useful.
i havent tourney’d as im such a loner but… i would if i could.

all that said just allowing the conjures to live on the elite slot would get them used a lot more by me.
i like “crossing” attunments with the conjures but basically water is the most senisible place to use them as water has no real dps.

i was not looking at classes but game mechanics.
I expected that all the classes would be pretty much the same as any other game and id be able to play for a month or two.

honestly that is what i expected. I was pleasantly surprised to find a different take on most class concepts and enjoyable PVE. enjoyable PvE was what really blew me away.

I was at the point that i thought the game was too easy when i started playing an ele. after playing the other classes i knew i had no idea what to expect. And i was pretty much right.

the ele is so deep.

in spvp i am partial to the runes of the forge.
not random.
toughness bonus.
protection bonus.
bonus starts within a reasonable crit comfort zone.
i have been critted for 13k in one hit.
then get all my power out of gems and such.

I had thought when i started to use conjures that being able to choose them as an elite would be alright.
consider the possibility of combining your ideas with that.
leave conjures pretty much as they are. add the ability to choose them as elites.
while in elite form they work something like what you are talking about. or a new elite that is the conjure glyph.

when i look at this stuff i think of what is the easiest change with the least impact with the most feel.

the problem with large changes is they are going to come out broken or take a really long time to start working.

look at all the ele bugs. IMHO is doesnt matter what things should be. it is this way and working within that model will get things done faster.

I like dreaming but realism is important when implementing dreams.

change the ground target so that the cast time really is 1/4 of a sec.
allow the FGS to be castable on the run.

ArmageddonAsh.6430:

Crunchy Gremlin.5798:

ArmageddonAsh.6430:

Crunchy Gremlin.5798:

ArmageddonAsh.6430:

Crunchy Gremlin.5798:

ArmageddonAsh.6430:

Crunchy Gremlin.5798:

conjures already gain the bonus of the element you are in. any element.
Please guys seriously use the weapons before deciding how the need to be changed.

They gain increases based on the weapon – not the element you are in. If you are in Fire, Earth or Air it will still give the same bonus to the weapon – its based on what WEAPON it is rather then what element you are in for the bonus

I guess i dont understand what you mean.
the passive element bonus’s work on conjures like they work on regular weapons.
if you have 10% bonus damage in fire the conjures get that while you are in fire.

Ah okay i was thinking the stat increases like condition damage and such not from traits

can you explain that further?
what do you mean stat increases?
conjures, as far as i know, do not change anything about atunment dancing. just the weapon skills available.

Since the update (or before never really use them) each Conjure weapon increases certain stats – for example i think the Bow increases Healing Power and Condition damage think the Great sword increases Power and Precision and the Shield increases Toughness and maybe another stat

though this happens only for the first weapon, so if you pick up the second you dont get the stat increases

I get you. so what are you proposing then? that the conjure stat come from the element they are in?
this i dont care for so much as it “breaks” some kinds of conjure usage.

currently i can take ax and run it from water. getting passive healing and +20% damage when the target is vulnerable.
that can be mixed with an arcane build to apply vulnerability with arcane spells or aura build and apply vulnerability with signets. i dont like signets much though. too slow to use.
Some of the normally less useful traits start becoming somewhat reasonable when used with conjures.

I dont want to see the ele get more complicated. its hard enough to remember to be in water to use the conjure.

In my opinion – I think the conjure weapons would be better suited to changing based on the element you are in. Maybe give a bonus for that element as well. As i posted earlier

for example for “Frost Bow”

Flame Bow: Good AoE damage and Multi target damage – similar to the staff
Water Bow – Similar to water Staff – Healing, chill
Air Bow– Good Single Target, a Good Multi target (fan shot?) and some sort of CC like cripple, weakness or something
Earth Bow – Not sure how to make a bow defensive lol

This way you can run D/D and have the Bow but still have the option of using the bow the way you want and get the most use from it. The same could be done with all the weapons, not forcing the weapons into a specific play style due to how limiting the weapons are

i wouldn’t mind this if they removed normal weapons all together.
They are limited in usage but they are just utility.
If you use them more like utility they work reasonably well. at least ax does.

to the OP.
I rarely if ever use the second conjure.
I dont consider these weapons better than standard weapons.
so conjure x2 means little to me.

Conjures benefit the ele in the low spots of their attack cycle or combat type. Or add power to elements, like water, that normally do not have a lot of power.

consider how often any of the utilities are used.
Lightning flash is great but i want to use it with churning earth not just whenever. Too noob to know how to use it otherwise.

I use ax the same way. I have a lot on cool down and i need a short gap closer. ax, ring of fire, leap, roll, explode, autoattack or drop.

I have used ax for a little extra movement too by just leaping away.
this is one reason i want FGS to cast on the run. the movement bonus from that would be fairly powerful. its really a decent retreat weapon save that i have to stand still to cast it which makes a near useless retreat weapon.

ArmageddonAsh.6430:

Crunchy Gremlin.5798:

ArmageddonAsh.6430:

Crunchy Gremlin.5798:

ArmageddonAsh.6430:

Crunchy Gremlin.5798:

conjures already gain the bonus of the element you are in. any element.
Please guys seriously use the weapons before deciding how the need to be changed.

They gain increases based on the weapon – not the element you are in. If you are in Fire, Earth or Air it will still give the same bonus to the weapon – its based on what WEAPON it is rather then what element you are in for the bonus

I guess i dont understand what you mean.
the passive element bonus’s work on conjures like they work on regular weapons.
if you have 10% bonus damage in fire the conjures get that while you are in fire.

Ah okay i was thinking the stat increases like condition damage and such not from traits

can you explain that further?
what do you mean stat increases?
conjures, as far as i know, do not change anything about atunment dancing. just the weapon skills available.

Since the update (or before never really use them) each Conjure weapon increases certain stats – for example i think the Bow increases Healing Power and Condition damage think the Great sword increases Power and Precision and the Shield increases Toughness and maybe another stat

though this happens only for the first weapon, so if you pick up the second you dont get the stat increases

I get you. so what are you proposing then? that the conjure stat come from the element they are in?
this i dont care for so much as it “breaks” some kinds of conjure usage.

currently i can take ax and run it from water. getting passive healing and +20% damage when the target is vulnerable.
that can be mixed with an arcane build to apply vulnerability with arcane spells or aura build and apply vulnerability with signets. i dont like signets much though. too slow to use.
Some of the normally less useful traits start becoming somewhat reasonable when used with conjures.

I dont want to see the ele get more complicated. its hard enough to remember to be in water to use the conjure.

ArmageddonAsh.6430:

Crunchy Gremlin.5798:

ArmageddonAsh.6430:

Crunchy Gremlin.5798:

conjures already gain the bonus of the element you are in. any element.
Please guys seriously use the weapons before deciding how the need to be changed.

They gain increases based on the weapon – not the element you are in. If you are in Fire, Earth or Air it will still give the same bonus to the weapon – its based on what WEAPON it is rather then what element you are in for the bonus

I guess i dont understand what you mean.
the passive element bonus’s work on conjures like they work on regular weapons.
if you have 10% bonus damage in fire the conjures get that while you are in fire.

Ah okay i was thinking the stat increases like condition damage and such not from traits

can you explain that further?
what do you mean stat increases?
conjures, as far as i know, do not change anything about atunment dancing. just the weapon skills available.

ArmageddonAsh.6430:

Crunchy Gremlin.5798:

conjures already gain the bonus of the element you are in. any element.
Please guys seriously use the weapons before deciding how the need to be changed.

They gain increases based on the weapon – not the element you are in. If you are in Fire, Earth or Air it will still give the same bonus to the weapon – its based on what WEAPON it is rather then what element you are in for the bonus

I guess i dont understand what you mean.
the passive element bonus’s work on conjures like they work on regular weapons.
if you have 10% bonus damage in fire the conjures get that while you are in fire.

conjures already gain the bonus of the element you are in. any element.
Please guys seriously use the weapons before deciding how the need to be changed.

only two things i want to see.
no ground target. cast at target or at feet.
Or
change fast ground target overall to be cast at current target or normal ground target if no current target.

and

fgs castable on the run.

rest of it is meh…
the shield needs work but the concept of having the shield be a set of utility skills is on the right course. it feels natural that way. They could change all the skills in shield to be just defensive utility and id be ok with that.
lightning hammer i hear is strong but i have yet to put a lot of time into it.

dont care about charges. default ax duration is about perfect.
FGS last too long IMHO but its a good weapon for destroying structures. its just not better than attunment dancing.

if they are expected to be used over regular weapons permanently then all conjures should be on the elite skill. so i get access to all the other utility skills.

that is the truth of the matter. they are after all just utility slots.

one with air works. havent tested it thoroughly but basic observation shows that its faster than 10% and increases in speed as time goes by.

i dont feel that is a useful way to use the weapons unless giving the weapons to others.
basically locks out the other weapons on cast. one conjure with the fgs elite is about all can handle. mist form and lightning flash are just too useful to not take.
low arcane works ok with conjures as the conjure gives time for the attunments to recycle.
i would try to got 5 or 15 into arcane for the fury and the increase in attunment time.
25 in water is nice for the damage boost.
currently i like a 0\20\0\25\25 build. more can be taken from arcane to boost up power . I run with berserker jewel in spvp.
one with air helps with the lack of run buff. and air trait one for auras. that helps out ax. ring of fire. leap. roll back. explosive ax. autoattack
generally i do this from water using +damage from vulnerability.
issue with this kind of thing is the timing and skill needed to cycle through the attacks and use it when not ready. its a lot to keep in the head. and all that button pushing. it can be kind of intense but it works with d/d well enough for me.

Thrashbarg.9820:

I’ve been running with frost bow in PvE recently (D/D primary weapons), and it’s pretty decent in that format. I keep wanting to run shield in WvW but the cast time makes it not fluid enough for my taste, cripple>daze>aoe-pull>immune>drop-shield>D/D damage rotation sounds fun but in practice it’s hard to pull off and hard to give up a utility skill to justify it.

try using fast ground targeting.
its the only way i can get the weapons to cast fast enough to be fluid…
still run into problems of my cursor being hard to find and not casting.
its a problem. the is not much of point in it being ground targeted in the first place. hinders the spell more than helps. all of them are that way.
should be at my feet or at my target.

i used scepter focus in my ele’s first catacomb runs at 30 as an ele noob. it work well for noobling. there are a few good combos for might and if there is a rnager with a water field healing.