Guild Wars 2

Depends if you want more skill in terms of strategic planning and tactics in combat or more skill in twitch based reaction gameplay.

I think gw2 has too much twitch reaction such that both defence and offence need to be spammable in order to counter the amount of bullkitten flying around.

I would like to see the huge burst (both power and condi) dps reduced and return to a light bruiser meta (not bunker) where time to kill is a little longer (but not indefinite) and choices in combat have greater consequences.

Justine.6351:

Curunen.8729:

zealex.9410:

Always found focus fun in pvp ppl never expect it and if there falling dmg the weapon will get insta value.

It’s certainly fun for the novelty, at least until you run into an opponent that shuts it down completely, where you wish you had the extra stealth or a block.

Personally running 3 stunbreaks and phase retreat I have never been bothered by a curtain pull that manages to connect (emphasis on “manages”), on the now very rare occasions I run into a focus user whether in pvp or wvw. I just immediately get up out if it and go in for burst, where the reflect is meaningless and iWarden gets demolished.

Edit – anyway I too would like to see a part 2, particularly fights or duels against good thieves/mesmers, as well as some outnumbered situations where they really chase you.

Focus is not a dueling weapon. Well I’m not a dueler and so I don’t think I could produce a dueling vid with focus. In this vid I’m running a bunker boon support chrono with traited glamours. I intentionally started one of the clips of me killing a sentry to show just how low the damage actually is. It’s laughable that anyone could die to it, but ya know…it’s wvw.

Well that’s the problem – if it’s not a duelling capable weapon then its not going to hold up in a situation where you’re solo or with an ally or two and outnumbered vs good players who are built for 1vx. Sure it’ll handle the odd loose zergling or hard counter projectile spammers if traited but not much else.

I am a solo player hence I need the tools to engage/survive any encounter (cue “roaming is dead”). Since HoT whenever I have attempted to use a Focus I have had less sustain and effectiveness than most other weapons (excluding pistol and offhand sword because they too both need to be looked at). Thieves in particular make using Focus not fun.

Believe me I love Focus and have enjoyed awesome plays with it in the past. I want it to be a thing again in all aspects of pvp – high level tournaments, ranked/unranked/hotjoin, large/medium/small/solo scale wvw.

zealex.9410:

Always found focus fun in pvp ppl never expect it and if there falling dmg the weapon will get insta value.

It’s certainly fun for the novelty, at least until you run into an opponent that shuts it down completely, where you wish you had the extra stealth or a block.

Personally running 3 stunbreaks and phase retreat I have never been bothered by a curtain pull that manages to connect (emphasis on “manages” as it doesn’t require much effort to outrange or otherwise avoid) on the now very rare occasions I run into a focus user whether in pvp or wvw. I just immediately get up out if it and go in for burst, where the reflect is meaningless and iWarden gets demolished.

Edit – anyway I too would like to see a part 2, particularly fights or duels against good thieves/mesmers, as well as some outnumbered situations where they really chase you.

Given how many extremely overtuned builds I personally encounter while roaming, choosing to use Focus is like giving myself a handicap. I don’t know if the scene is different on NA, but on EU you will run into good thieves and mesmers in particular, but also solid players of all classes, and believe me I have run Focus, Torch, Shield… all weapon combinations – likelihood of dying is far greater when using a Focus than when using Torch or Shield, Staff, Greatsword.

No one wants to button smash cheese all over the place, but when vast majority of opponents are on the HoT powercreeped bandwagon, trying to play elegant is not effective anymore.

Focus is an elegant weapon for a more civilised age. The age that was before HoT, before specialisations.

Disregarding pulling people off walls (because that’s its main use now) and zerging (because almost anything works) I want to be as polite as possible while being honest – get jumped by a competent thief, a power or condi burst from say a mesmer, or any competent players for that matter and it’ll be a different story. None of those enemies kited well – they all just tried to facetank in your aoes and shoot blindly into the reflects and made no attempt to outrange/dodge/block/otherwise avoid the curtain pull, which in itself wouldn’t do much to discourage a thief for example that was really after you. Nevermind if you get jumped in an outnumbered situation and having no stealth to disengage.

Please appreciate I’m not trying to be rude or unpleasant – on the contrary I’m generally super friendly and well mannered. But this video does very little to counter the argument that Focus is below average and needs buffs. I appreciate you making the video to support your love for Focus, but it doesn’t change that it is a sub par weapon, nowhere near “godlike”, that Torch with one skill (Prestige) is better and Shield is also better.

Truth be told mesmer doesn’t have any “godlike” weapons. A godlike weapon is something like Scrapper’s Hammer before it got repeatedly nerfed.

Another suggestion regarding Elusive Mind.

I’d be happy if they remove the stunbreak entirely, but make it like DareDevil’s Unhindered Combatant – ie dodge removes all movement impairing conditions (cripple/chill/immobilise). And have it remove an additional condition, maybe a damaging condition like Ranger’s Evasive Purity does.

That would be cool – they could also make a trait that gives swiftness on dodge.

Yeah the Firebrand has beautiful visual effects on their axe, including the symbol. I love the whole aesthetic they’ve got going on with that spec.

mortrialus.3062:

Axe auto attack feel a bit weightless animation and flavor wise. Axes are more brutal and inelegant weapons compared to more precise swords. It shouldn’t feel as brutal and heavy as Warrior axe auto attack, but it should feel a bit closer than it currently is.

Just on this note while it is personal preference, I like the elegant and ethereal nature of the axe auto attack chain and feel it fits the theme of Mirage nicely, as well as inspiration from the desert location and parallels with the whole veiled exotic mystery from similar cultures as those portrayed in the crystal desert. If anything I’d like to see the first two strikes of the auto chain to be a fraction faster.

czerwoni.9563:

Curunen.8729:

Zoltar MacRoth.7146:

n…o? Lose in what way? Did they fall in the lava at Chalice of Tears and not resurface?

Dead is dead? :p That would be pure masochism in gw2.

I take it OP is meaning some mesmers stationed at the end of various puzzles?

ya lol taxi at Not So Secret jp

Tbh the jumping puzzle of Not So Secret isn’t that difficult, especially with the blink shortcut.

The diving goggles on the other hand are horrific – both getting up there and then getting a safe dive. Those stupid rotating cogs are so broken with how far they send you unless you swap weapon mid jump.

Thinking that playing a p/p + p/p quick pockets (ie “reload”) thief with clerics amulet was actually good. xD

Zoltar MacRoth.7146:

n…o? Lose in what way? Did they fall in the lava at Chalice of Tears and not resurface?

Dead is dead? :p That would be pure masochism in gw2.

I take it OP is meaning some mesmers stationed at the end of various puzzles?

^If you say so… loads of utility does not imply being effective in the current state of the game.

Anyway I’ve said my piece and strongly disagree.

Back to the OP’s topic – while offhand axe would be very fashionable, I imagine other classes (especially ranger) would also require something to make up for being given one weapon this expansion. Warriors of course are the lucky kittens getting two daggers because “it looks cool”. :/

Tbh I’d take Mirage now in its current state as I’m bored of playing Chrono.

Can’t bring myself to play gw2 at all until able to play Mirage again.

Mikkel.8427:

I really don’t understand why people think the scepter ambush is even good… I thought it was one of the worst.

1) Root
2) Half duration condi from clones
3) Applies confusion OR torment per hit… I think a lot of people are misreading the tooltip.
4) Outside of the ambush attack, scepter clones apply the least condi pressure out of all our clones. Every other weapon’s clone stacks more bleeds traited with sharper images and the small amt of torment Scepter cones apply does not make up for this.
5) Long channel time
6) Root (worth mentioning twice)

Don’t forget single target as well.

Yeah I actually prefer axe ambush when traited (a lot of phantasmal axes flying around) and staff ambush.

I don’t mind if we don’t get a huge rework – I’m actually ok with a lot of things as they are, for example I like not having an F5 as that’s one less key to bind! Gives me some space on the keyboard to move things around as I’ll most likely be redoing my control setup for comfort with Mirage due to different button pattern than Chrono.

There’s a few things I hope they fix but I expect Mirage will be good enough to compete with other specs by the time pof launches, if not shortly afterwards so not too worried.

Justine.6351:

Curunen.8729:

Justine.6351:

Curunen.8729:

Would be nice if they just gave some love to Focus.

Focus is essentially an offhand Axe for us at this point, but two things make it awkward with Mirage:
1. Warden’s Feedback is in Inspiration which firstly is not the most synergistic line with Mirage, and not only that but it competes with Restorative Illusions.
2. Focus is very weak in any kind of pvp, especially untraited.

Regarding number 2, the sheer quantity of evades/blocks/stability/anticc skills and traits and other bullkitten being kittened out by every class makes Into the Void outdated. It’s a skill that has been eclipsed by HoT and previously it has gone neglected because with Chrono we have Shield which eclipsed most other offhands aside from Torch (which in itself is only really useful due to having stealth). But now Mirage is making it apparent how weak certain offhands are.

They slapped the ICD on Into the Void which at the time was good to give players more time to react, but now chances are it’s likely going to be passively countered by some bullkitten anyway.

Focus 4 needs serious reevaluation – ideally the curtain at least ought to destroy projectiles and maybe even provide quickness/slow, or maybe the pull br unblockable (ok I might be getting carried away there xD).

And as for the iWarden – this guy ought to pulse some effect like protection to allies within the bubble. I kind of like the stationary aspect of it though, in terms of setting up and controlling the field tactically, as well as a shelter to hide from projectiles.

Anyway maybe those are not suitable but whatever the case Focus needs some attention as it could thematically be the ideal counterpart to Axe.

Though I would also welcome offhand axe as I wouldn’t say no to dual wield Astralarias!

Mesmer focus is probably the best offhand in wvw. And it does destroy projectiles already, both skills.

Untraited temporal curtain does not destroy projectiles. Only iWarden does that.

Only when traited do both reflect projectiles. Edit – and no one is going to trait it when it competes with RI.

It’s nowhere near as good as shield or Torch for that matter due to stealth. Only real use for it in wvw is pulling people off vertical terrain/walls. We’ve already got movement speed buff from Chrono so that aspect is unnecessary.

I’ve been running traited focus since 2012. It’s god tier weapon.

Seriously? So you’ve never not traited it, especially since the trait rework and specialisation patch (to know that untraited curtain does nothing to projectiles – I used to believe that too until it was shown to me)?

Which means I take it you don’t use Restorative Illusions? Especially in wvw where it hasn’t even been nerfed, unlike in pvp where they cut the healing and made it more dependent on healing power. Taking into account the further nerf to Mender’s Purity and you’ve got to question what is the point in running Inspiration in the first place? Would be far better off with Duelling or another line.

Focus was god tier when you only needed to put 20 points in Inspiration to trait it and Into the Void could be insta cast after curtain drop.

Focus became “ok” when they slapped the 1s ICD on into the void.

Focus is now outdated since HoT, in spite of the consistency change to pull and the immobilise on iWarden cast (which in practice is beyond negligable). It’s a pve weapon used for clustering mobs in things like Fractals so you and your party can stack and hack.

Look at any kind of competitive pvp – how many players use focus? Zero. They all use Sword/Shield, which is the only set you could remotely call “god tier”. Even in lower tiers, Torch is the primary alternative offhand that sees most use.

I can’t remember the last time I ran into any mesmer in wvw who used Focus – or at least any mesmer that bothered me enough to remember them – most are running Torch or Shield, very few running Pistol, a good number running Staff and pretty much all cookie cutter power shatter are running Greatsword. I know what weapons I’d rather have equipped if caught with my pants down or outnumbered in wvw, and it’s certainly not Focus. Edit – this happened a few weeks ago on DBL where I was pulling some enemies from a wall, ended up outnumbered 1:3 – downed one but unable to stomp and was shortly killed – whereas with Torch or Shield I may have been able to win that fight.

Actually the last time I ran into an opponent mesmer using focus was hotjoin of all places, and we were commending their efforts in chat because of how easy it was to beat them.

Justine.6351:

Curunen.8729:

Would be nice if they just gave some love to Focus.

Focus is essentially an offhand Axe for us at this point, but two things make it awkward with Mirage:
1. Warden’s Feedback is in Inspiration which firstly is not the most synergistic line with Mirage, and not only that but it competes with Restorative Illusions.
2. Focus is very weak in any kind of pvp, especially untraited.

Regarding number 2, the sheer quantity of evades/blocks/stability/anticc skills and traits and other bullkitten being kittened out by every class makes Into the Void outdated. It’s a skill that has been eclipsed by HoT and previously it has gone neglected because with Chrono we have Shield which eclipsed most other offhands aside from Torch (which in itself is only really useful due to having stealth). But now Mirage is making it apparent how weak certain offhands are.

They slapped the ICD on Into the Void which at the time was good to give players more time to react, but now chances are it’s likely going to be passively countered by some bullkitten anyway.

Focus 4 needs serious reevaluation – ideally the curtain at least ought to destroy projectiles and maybe even provide quickness/slow, or maybe the pull br unblockable (ok I might be getting carried away there xD).

And as for the iWarden – this guy ought to pulse some effect like protection to allies within the bubble. I kind of like the stationary aspect of it though, in terms of setting up and controlling the field tactically, as well as a shelter to hide from projectiles.

Anyway maybe those are not suitable but whatever the case Focus needs some attention as it could thematically be the ideal counterpart to Axe.

Though I would also welcome offhand axe as I wouldn’t say no to dual wield Astralarias!

Mesmer focus is probably the best offhand in wvw. And it does destroy projectiles already, both skills.

Untraited temporal curtain does not destroy projectiles. Only iWarden does that.

Only when traited do both reflect projectiles. Edit – and no one is going to trait it when it competes with RI.

It’s nowhere near as good as shield or Torch for that matter due to stealth. Only real use for it in wvw is pulling people off vertical terrain/walls. We’ve already got movement speed buff from Chrono so that aspect is unnecessary.

Now that’s an idea – an offhand axe without a phantasm (unlesss they make phantasms work better with Mirage).

Would be nice if they just gave some love to Focus.

Focus is essentially an offhand Axe for us at this point, but two things make it awkward with Mirage:
1. Warden’s Feedback is in Inspiration which firstly is not the most synergistic line with Mirage, and not only that but it competes with Restorative Illusions.
2. Focus is very weak in any kind of pvp, especially untraited.

Regarding number 2, the sheer quantity of evades/blocks/stability/anticc skills and traits and other bullkitten being kittened out by every class makes Into the Void outdated. It’s a skill that has been eclipsed by HoT and previously it has gone neglected because with Chrono we have Shield which eclipsed most other offhands aside from Torch (which in itself is only really useful due to having stealth). But now Mirage is making it apparent how weak certain offhands are.

They slapped the ICD on Into the Void which at the time was good to give players more time to react, but now chances are it’s likely going to be passively countered by some bullkitten anyway.

Focus 4 needs serious reevaluation – ideally the curtain at least ought to destroy projectiles untraited and maybe even provide quickness/slow, or maybe the pull br unblockable (ok I might be getting carried away there xD).

And as for the iWarden – this guy ought to pulse some effect like protection to allies within the bubble. I kind of like the stationary aspect of it though, in terms of setting up and controlling the field tactically, as well as a shelter to hide from projectiles.

Anyway maybe those are not suitable but whatever the case Focus needs some attention as it could thematically be the ideal counterpart to Axe.

Though I would also welcome offhand axe as I wouldn’t say no to dual wield Astralarias!

Mirage – only going to add a few points because other people have probably covered everything else:

Axe 2 needs an evade – 3/4s would be ideal.

3rd hit of Axe auto chain (Mirror Strikes) could also do with an evade – 1/2s (similar to Ranger GS auto attack chain, or mesmer underwater Spear auto attack chain), but not crucial.

Fix Axe 3 (and Illusionary Ambush) pathing to work like Sword 3 swap – for vertical chasing/kiting.

Merge Illusionary Ambush and Mirage Advance? (Make room for new Deception utility).

Change painful sound effect of Imaginary Axes (worse than Alacrity sound effect).

Jaunt – 600 range.

Elusive Mind – also remove movement impairing conditions (cripple/chill/immob) but ICD on stunbreak?

Infinite Horizon – baseline (make room for new trait).

Add a contextual optional directional movement to dodge:
- hitting dodge button only just provides Mirage cloak and does not move you.
- pressing a directional key (forward /left/right/back) and dodge key together does a 200-300 range blink (soft sound effect) in the direction you move, and gives Mirage cloak. Also applies to double tap for dodge.
This retains flexibility dodge – you still can blur without moving by hitting the dodge button only, but you also have the option of a directional dodge blink if moving while hitting dodge.

Other mesmer notes:

Move Warden’s Feedback to Adept or Grandmaster tier in Inspiration, so as not to compete with Restorative Illusions. Focus needs some love.

Change Reflect to not break stealth and proc reveal (ie so Reflecting while in Stealth maintains stealth). This will fix a lot of trait interactions with stealth – from Evasive Mirror to Master of Manipulation.

Wooohooooo!

My god that was… long. Shame I can only look at it in my inventory right now.

^What they said. In a nutshell – clone/phantasm/shatter contradictory mechanics, damage/utility/etc tied up in fragile illusions (ie useless in large scale wvw), ramp up time of damage (pve), resummoning required on target swap.

K THEN.5162:

Why introduce more counters to stealth when you can counter your own stealth

It’s funny given how many stealth traits/skills we have and reflects – I don’t think other classes have the amount of stealth and reflect available together when there’s such an anti-synergy between them.

Eg, say you trait Evasive Mirror and you use say Decoy into dodge to evade something – procs the reflect which reveals you. So many similar interactions including Mirror heal that it’s a bit annoying. I wish they’d just make it so reflects didn’t cause reveal.

It is a stupid interaction for a stealth skill to get reflect when traited.

Either reflects shouldn’t reveal or mass invis should be changed to a different skill type instead of manipulations.

What game mode?

Definitely using Axe and Staff – I love both of them incuding ambush attacks. Most likely offhand Torch, but if other offhands are buffed I would prefer to use Focus.

Definitely going Viper with Cele trinkets (wvw) unless Griever is better for bursty play.

Regarding HoT legendaries, personally by far the most tedious and time consuming thing is the gift of maguuma mastery.

Especially for a player who is new to HoT – completing all the maps and masteries and getting all that crystalline ore takes ages. Sure for a second HoT legendary I guess its easier due to not having to complete masteries again.

Precursor collection is much easier tbh – nowhere near as time consuming aside from time gates (ie charged quartz) and some of it you can just throw gold at (tier II). Yes there’s a lot of things to do but I’m finding it easier and more fun than the maguuma mastery stuff.

wb Sticker.

Anyway one other thing I really like is the proposed change to offhand sword 4. That rework is… well it’s kitten awesome and I might use it more often than Torch if it functioned as in the OP.

We do need an overhaul for our offhand weapons – especially evident with Mirage because Shield has eclipses these issues by being so good (and Torch has covered the other issues – although iMage still could do with a coldown reduction because 30s untraited is stupid).

Focus definitely needs love, especially considering what Wardens’ Feedback currently competes with – nobody in their right mind would choose that over RI. This trait has to be moved and Focus could do with your proposed buffs ro bring new life to the weapon. It’s such a beautiful and skillful weapon to use but it’s so weak in the current state of the game.

I’m curious as to Pistol – would you change anything with that?

I wouldn’t want more ground targeting (already awkward enough to find suitable keybinds for jaunt, blink and things like chaos storm/temporal curtain).

But I’m all in favour of a mechanic that allows some ability for tactics and mind games with the mirrors.

Thanks for taking the time to put this together – makes the wait for release feel shorter.

I think the stunbreak is ridiculous without an ICD.

But tbh I’d rather see Elusive Mind remove all movement impairing conditions on dodge (cripple/chill/immob), and one single additional condition. Then stick a cooldown on the stunbreak (at least 10 seconds if not more).

Anyway I like some of your changes in the OP, particularly things like Warden’s Feedback – I’d actually play with focus again seriously rather than using it to pull the occasional person off a wall in wvw.

Don’t be sorry! Great to see a video so thanks for linking it here.

I’m just looking forward to playing with it on my asura.

The single best thing that is giving me motivation to finish is no horrific rattling/ticking sound on imaginary axes!!! My god I hope that’s not a bug because I’ll be so happy without having to listen to that awful rattling sound effect.

Currently on Tier III making charged quartz. Gift of maguuma mastery done, mystic tribute ready, just need to finish tier III and IV of precursor.

Would have been nice to see animations on asura, because asura have a sick aerial pirouette/twirl on the third hit of the auto chain which I think will look amazing with astralaria! (Just like asura have the best animations on everything. )

Have been playing hybrid since the last year and a half with a lot of success and fun.

I’ve posted my build and tactics at great length in other threads so will just give brief build here:

Insp – Restorative Mantras, RI, MD
Illusions – Pledge, MtD, MoF
Chrono – TCU, IA, Cp

Mantra heal, Blink, Mirror Images, Decoy, Mass Invis

Staff (Energy /Cleansing) + Sword/Torch (Energy/Cleansing)

Viper weapons, shoulders, chest, gloves, legs, shoes
Cele headgear and all trinkets
All wvw resilient infusions

Antitoxin Runes
Sweet Bean Buns (recently nerfed but still good)
Tuning Icicles

I have roamed wvw with great success using the above.

Power is usually around 1900, condi damage around 1100-1200, around 19-20k health, 1400 armour, ~35% crit chance (mind wrack under fury is around 80%), bit of healing power and also reasonable amount of expertise (can’t remember off top of my head), over 170% crit damage.

I have stopped playing this build as of last week simply because I’m bored and had enough and preparing transition to Mirage, which is also going to be hybrid with similar stats. But the build still functions well despite nerfs to menders purity/mantra heal and utilitiy/food consumables.

I’m sorry that you’re not happy with Axe so hopefully the next elite spec will have the right weapon for you. Being sincere, I can understand this because I don’t like Shield on Chrono.

Personally I love the animations and visual effects, and the skills for axe and think it fits the mirage theme perfectly. It’s one of the main reasons I want to play mirage.

Strangely enough I’m happy it doesn’t have +25% movement speed because I want to use Traveler runes this time because of all the other benefits (boon/condi duration and global stat increase). If it had 25% I’d have to use a different rune.

I know that’s really weird and I wasn’t expecting this, but Traveler is looking to have the best synergy for the build I have enjoyed so far.

^Yes, when Infinite Horizon is traited and you gain Mirage Cloak, all of your active clones also get Mirage Cloak which enables them to cast an ambush attack, otherwise clones do not use ambush. Phantasms will not cast ambush in any case. You as the player have a choice whether to cast or not, though as the cast window is so small it’s pretty much use it immediately or lose it (hopefully they increase the cast window).

Yes without it only you can use ambush. Infinite Horizon gives cloak to all illusions which gives them an evade, but only clones then cast their ambush attacks. In small fights/1v1/pve this provides more damage and in the case of staff the potential to stack more might/fury (depending on positioning).

However there are problems – particularly in how easy it is to kill clones, how easy it is for some attacks to miss (eg chaos vortex), how weak some ambushes are (GS) and the fact that phantasms don’t ambush.

Two main trains of thought as to this:
1. Make it baseline because Mirage damage output is balanced around it. This would require additional mechanics ro enable clones to better survive as well as making IH do something for phantasms (or changing phantasms altogether for Mirage).
2. Leave it as it is but buff the mesmer’s personal ambush damage significantly – because clones are so fragile and die in any large scale conflict making this trait not so useful (ie large scale wvw).

The thing is it needs to contain both options:

1. Pressing dodge key only, simply blurs you in place with no movement

2. Pressing dodge key while also pressing a directional key (forward/back/left/right) provides blur and executes a 200-300 range blink I’m the direction of movement. Also works with double tap to dodge.

Number 1 is really important to have, unlike normal dodge where if you just press the dodge key you will still dodge backwards. I personally enjoy the current design of Mirage dodge without moving and would not like to see that option disappear if a blink was added. Instead the above solution allows for both possibilities, movement and no movement dodge, which not only raises the skillcap but puts the choice firmly in the player’s hands as to how they want to dodge (move or not move while gaining Mirage Cloak).

While I can’t deny playing chrono is easier and more effective, I am also taken by Mirage such that I don’t really want to play Chrono for the next month.

While Mirage was more fragile and clunky, I enjoyed the playstyle more, especially being able to use some of my favourite traits (Evasive Mirror <3, Master of Manipulation for good reflect uptime) and I was enjoying Axe a lot (despite the horrible Imaginary Axes sound effect). Staff also feels weird now without the Chaos Vortex ambush animation.

So currently I’ve decided not to do any pvp or wvw on chrono and instead spend the next month completing The Mechanism so I can have Astralaria finished before pof releases, and that’s all I’m going to do.

“Mirage isn’t Chrono”

That’s the problem – it’s not Chrono which brings all the problems of core Mesmer to the surface again whereas Chrono fixed some of those problems.

Mirage is a halfway mishmash of mechanics – it should go further and be unique in order to totally differentiate from Chrono and core mesmer.

Windwalker.7421:

I think one “take-away” message for Anet should be to realize that all the complaints about Mirage show that there was/is a great interest in the Elite!

Even if people’s (probably unrealistic) expectations weren’t met during their BETA weekend experience, and they’re voicing that concern in often overwhelmingly negative posts on a fairly anonymous forum, the fact is there is a ton of interest in Mirage and we’re all very excited!

We want to see this Elite succeed, and we see it’s potential, but we are all a bit mortified by the gaping deficiencies we encountered over the weekend. Truth be told, I think Anet purposely tuned many aspects of Mirage way down —possibly even knee jerk after that silly video proclaimed Mirage to be grossly over-tuned based on Golem testing-- to build it up post Beta.

Let’s be honest, this Elite has a loy of potential to be OPd, and many of the suggestions for “improvements” I’ve seen on this board the past couple of days are clearly OPd! Many many more, however, are spot on and I still have enough trust in Anet as a “for profit” company that wants to sell copies of the expansion, to believe there will be MUCH tuning coming up.

Remember DH in the last beta weekend before HoT? OMG! People were lighting up the Guardian boards proclaiming it’s uselessness, the theme not fitting Guardians, and that it was the worst of the Elite’s etc! Sounds familiar? It took ONE single patch to change that to screams and cries about OP! OP! OP! WAH! (25x Vulnerability trap? lol!) Trap DH went on to rule low-to-mid scale PvP for a large part of the past 2 years…so yeah I’m optimistic that Mirage will turn out to be a great Elite for an alternate play-style.

That is not to say it will be an Elite for everyone! I believe it’s pretty clearly a Thief-like spec and will simply not grant the utility we’re accustomed to from a Mesmer/Chrono.

I fully expect that a Mirage will turn out to be a high mobility, high survivability (from a combination of deception and stealth), and a strong sustained single-target condie burst class. (yeah that’s a bit of an oxy-moron…I mean a strong condie burst that can be repeated often enough to overwhelm single targets very quickly.)

Also I have to say, I feel that Power Mirage is in a lot better shape than people are making it out to be. You can do some pretty crazy CC->Bursts with Dom/Duel/Mirage and MH Sword. Lastly, as much as GS Ambush sucks, the ability to Mirage Cloak->Mirror Blade someone in the face without taking damage is not exactly bad either. (Generating 2 clones with DE, and shatter in the face.)

I’m also not downplaying the MANY deficiencies of Mirage, but I do believe there is time and will for Anet to tune this thing to be a pretty awesome elite!

Well said, I agree.

Also even when Mirage is fixed up, many people are still going to prefer Chrono – which is as it should be.

Even after we get 3, 4, maybe 5 elite specs per class, everyone is going to have their preference/niche and for some people it may be that the first elite spec (Chrono) is their favourite so nothing in any future expansion will give them as much fun – which is good as it promotes variety.

Good topic – sound and visual effects are for me one of the primary motivators for enjoying a class or game and one of the main reasons I enjoy mesmer. It also happens to be why I’m attracted to playing Firebrand, even though I don’t like core guardian.

Visual effects:
+ Axe animations are all beautiful Including the throwing of the Imaginary Axes and the whirling axe projectiles (bear in mind I play asura). I love the auto attack, especially the twirl/flourish on the 3rd hit of the auto. I love axe 2’s animation and I love the overall misty/sandy pastel pink hue on all the trails of all the axe attacks. The devs have done a fantastic job with how axe skills look.
+ Mirage Mirrors are beautiful and the shattering looks good.
+ The colours following Mirage Cloak are beautiful (fit with my Bifrost quite nicely).
+ Staff Ambush animation is beautiful (I always wanted the rev’s staff spin animation on mesmer)
+ Jaunt seems to have been toned down from videos pre-demo, so I like that (no bright flash to hurt the eyes).

- Scepter ambush animation in superspeed looks ridiculous, like Blurred Frenzy under quickness and then on steroids. It’s too frantic for mesmer, especially an elite spec that is all about subtelty and deception.
- Maybe a bit too much beige sand effects in some places, detracts a little from the core theme of mesmer. What if we are playing a Mirage in the Shiverpeaks somewhere – the beige sand wouldn’t quite fit.

Sound Effects:
+ Mirage Mirror shattering sound is fantastic
+ Mirage Cloak has a beautiful sound effect
+ Axe autos and axe 3/Illusionary Ambush sound good.

+/- Axe 2 has a weird “bubbly” sound (best I can describe it) that isn’t as smooth/whooshing/flowing as I’d imagine it to be. It doesn’t bother me but it could be better.
+/- Jaunt also has a weird bouncy/bubbly sound to it that isn’t as appropriate as it could be. Again maybe less percussive beats and more smooth transition.

- Imaginary Axes – it hurts my ears and I seriously hope it is changed. Worse than Alacrity, don’t know what the audio devs were thinking with this one.
- Some of the voice lines are really cheesy (as you said in the OP). I can’t remember all of them but I recall some were good but there were one or two that made me cringe a bit.

“Ranger-Mesmer” with Rifle or short/longbow, persistent illusions, pet control mechanics instead of shatter, and/or absorption like Soulbeast?

Nowhere near enough survivability compared to meta chrono and clones die too easily. Unable to contest a point for as much time as Chrono but also unable to reliably focus and burst targets to make up for it. Not sure what role it is intended to fulfil.

Inspiration not great with Mirage however because less frequent shattering (RI has less synergy). Would be nice to see a direct small heal on dodge trait, rather than just the regen from renewing oasis.

Change the imaginary/phantasmal axe sound effect!! less ticking please. Edit, for the record I like the actual mechanic of axe ambush, it is only the sound effect I don’t like. I’d like the mechanic of throwing imaginary axes and the visual effects to stay the same.

Put 3/4s evade on axe 2 and a 1/2s evade on the third chain of axe auto. Raise cooldown of axe 2 if necessary.

Fix axe 3 vertical pathing (needs to work like sword 3 swap).

Staff ambush – wider effect radius on the vortex, or have the effect also proc in a cone in front of the player (and clones).

Merge Illusionary Ambush and Mirage Advance into a single skill.

Increase range on Jaunt to 600.

Add a contextual optional directional movement to dodge:
- hitting dodge button only just provides Mirage cloak and does not move you.
- pressing a directional key (forward /left/right/back) and dodge key together does a 200-300 range blink in the direction you move, and also gives Mirage cloak. This also applies to double tap for dodge.

This retains flexibility of the dodge – you still can blur without moving by hitting the dodge button only, but you also have the option of a directional dodge blink if moving while hitting dodge.

Yes, nice thread!

Sexy axe animations (on asura) – I love the whirl both on auto chain 3 and skill 2, love the visual effects (sound effect of phantasmal axes is the single worst thing of Mirage though). I know I am going to be using axe so I know I will finish astralaria now.

Beautiful Mirage Mirror and Mirage Cloak visual and sound effects.

I LOVE staff ambush animation. I always wanted the revenant’s staff spin animation on mesmer so very happy to get it!

Nice that axe ambush is “ranged”.

Some good ideas in Deception skills – Jaunt is fun to use, Sand through Glass has beautiful effects (however Mirage Advance should be merged with Illusionary Ambush into a single skill, and then create one more Deception utility – needs more detargeting and stealth tbh).

Infinite Horizon – baseline

Elusive Mind – 20s ICD on stunbreak, but removes all movement impairing conditions (cripple, chill, immobilise) plus a single additional condition.

New trait that gives clones a second life if killed (not shattered).

New trait that provides small direct heal on dodge (not regen).

Zoltar MacRoth.7146:

Frostball.9108:

nothelseth.4621:

To make it clear, frostballs current idea of mirage is the following

Krait runes for jaunt
ineptitude+blind on shatter
signet of midnight
axe

Jaunt on target, spam every single shatter, get the elite proc and get a massive condi spike. Playing this as a silly thief +1er

Cool in theory. In practice 1 well of eternity, 1 astral form, 1 leadership rune proc and all of your cds and burst is gone. Less effective than a thief by x100. Garbage in a teamfight. Inferior 1v1 to chrono, can’t hold a fight for its life, garbage 2v2, etc

Frostball has literally for years been the kid who always tries to refuse what everyone else does and do ‘’his own thing’’ and insist that it’s better. This is the person who plays the inspiration build with carrion and played bunker mesmer with the damage well.

Fantastic pvper, one of the best mesmers in the game by far but also someone who has historically ALWAYS been a contrarian who wants to be cool and stand out by never agreeing with what’s actually true.

Also, your build is bad lmao

I see you got sindys advice, although his guess on my build was wrong in some parts so such is yours. If you cant burst again within short periods of time with my build youre doing something mechanically wrong. All of your cds most definitely arent gone with one burst and the burst isnt gone with a simple thing like a leadership proc. You need heavy condi cleanse.

So… what… is… your… build?

At this point I agree. It’s not helpful to the devs or the playerbase to withhold your build.

It’s a demo and things will be changed – so trying to get the upper hand on the competition doesn’t make sense before release, especially if making claims that go against majority of other feedback. But if it is the case that you don’t want to tell in order to surprise the competition, don’t even make a thread on here – keep it all to yourself. Otherwise this comes across as being patronising and arrogant/selfish, serving no purpose. In any case as said in my previous post I in partial agreement with your conclusion of damage output, so not saying this out of spite, rather a desire for all the community to be on the same page so devs can have a clear picture of what to do with Mirage ready for release.

Hell no, I’m looking forward to Mirage on release.