Guild Wars 2

@mrsrachelm.7618 (infraction incoming, I’m sure of it)

Really enjoyed that whole “I’m holier than thou and I pity you for being my lesser” part of your argument, at least you’re consistent in your posts.

To the point, completing something difficult is where my personal satisfaction comes from. Having my accomplishments dumbed down for others won’t detract from my own pride in completing it, but I’ll readily admit that anyone that requires a nerf (on something that’s not even that hard) to complete it probably won’t get any words of praise from me and spare me your condescending preaching, it’s who I am. Also, I enjoy the puzzle the way it is now and I personally don’t want it to become another boring puzzle I’ll never go back to because it got ramped down into Silver Platter mode. I’m also not deluded into thinking everything in the world can be converted into some hand holding group hug to help the world spin faster with the undying power of love which seems to be the utopian nonsense you’re constantly posting.

I don’t understand why people like you feel like people deserve things they can’t earn in a videogame, RL is an entirely different issue so don’t bother throwing that at me since you like to get people in trouble with your irrelevant arguments involving RL. Where is the satisfaction in knowing that something has been made more mundane in an effort to make it accessible to you? That would just make me feel undeserving, have a little pride for F’s sake. The only valid reasons to make changes to the puzzle are the camera issues, the banners (wasn’t aware of that), and other players blocking your view with their giant charr/norn butts.

Supervillain.8617:

After nearly FOURTEEN (14) hours attempting to finish this puzzle, I finally get to the top, and waited for the clock face to break. After it had, and I was sure, I jumped into it, to be greeted with the expected loading screen (that I’d seen in the videos) only to be returned to the beginning with no achievement and no chance to open the chest.

This is completely unfair. I do not like the clock tower puzzle, nor do I want to spend another FOURTEEN hours attempting to do it because it was bugged, but I’ll most likely end up doing just that because I’m obsessive compulsive. It started out confusing, then went straight to frustrating, and now it’s just plain insulting. At no time was it ever “fun.” I wish I could just go on without the achievement, but I can’t, as it’s going to be eating at me until I do. (And before anyone says it for the millionth time, I know it’s not part of the overall mad king emissary achievement. That’s not the point.)

Wow, that super sucks dude. I really hope it doesn’t take you 14 hours again, that’s pretty brutal and a little scary if you’ve been sitting at that puzzle for 14 hours straight with no breaks. xD

It would be so incredibly fantastic to have these game modes permanently, they’re so much fun!

Swifter.6451:

Do people not like a challenge anymore?

Apparently not, nowadays it’s all about trying to ride glittering unicorns down rainbow slides made out of laughter and splashing into a chocolate fountain of mediocrity. Gawd forbid something offers you a sense of accomplishment anymore…

mrsrachelm.7618:

Then don’t PLAY the easy mode option. Simple. It’s no skin off -your- nose if others do.

Just like you don’t have to do the puzzle if it’s too hard for you. Simple. It’s no skin off -your- nose if you don’t.

neon.4863:

I didn’t say every person with a disability is doing that. What I am saying is that the lack of consideration for the people who are here, right now, saying they’re not skilled enough, due to a disability or otherwise, is astounding.

Also, people have different opinions. What would be insulting to you could be inclusive to someone else.

I don’t think a nerf should be in order – I think this level of challenge should be available to those who want it. But telling people who aren’t skilled enough to do it (but would like to) to suck it up is unnecessarily harsh. Being more inclusive – which could be done just by making the puzzle available permanently – would not hurt those who are really good at it. It’d just make those who are less good at it able to get it done, too. Eventually.

Hey, I’m all for making it permanent also, I think the Mad King’s Realm is absolutely terrific. I just think it’s a slap in the face to people (like myself) who possess the necessary skill to accomplish this and get the achievement, then turn around and remake it for toddlers so everyone else can get the same achievement too. Once again, I don’t understand the sense of accomplishment in it… if I wasn’t able to do it, I’d probably just say screw it, it’s not worth the points and move on.

neon.4863:

If I may say so, what feels like a slap to me is seeing all these comments about how you just need to work on your skill or deal with it.

There are many things a disabled person has to deal with that someone without a disability can’t possibly understand, because they’re things that never need to occur to them. For instance, going up stairs is a simple task if you can walk perfectly, but if you can’t or are in a wheelchair, the level of difficulty is increased tremendously.

So what’s a difficult puzzle for someone without a disability becomes an even more difficult puzzle for someone with one.

Likewise, someone with a disability has to develop skills someone without doesn’t in order to get around their disability – for instance, playing with their tongue and face, or playing with a pen. These extra skills take time to master – longer than the couple of days during which this puzzle is available.

People with a disability are already constantly reminded of their limitations by everyday tasks. It’s harsh when something in a game – which is a thing you do for fun – pokes the wound, so to speak.

I’m not saying we should dumb it down, it’s frustrating but not the end of the world to be unable to do it. But the lack of empathy some people here display is astounding. It couldn’t hurt to at least be more understanding of the fact some people just aren’t as dexterous as others, so this isn’t as fun for them, but they would have liked to be able to do it regardless.

Yeah, I’m pretty sure not every person with a disability is mentally moping and secretly cursing the world for “reminding” them of their disability. Long story, incoming:

All that stuff aside, people need to realize everything isn’t going to be dumbed down to their level of incompetence or inability so they can succeed. Yeah, it’s a game where we all come to have fun. Some people enjoy a challenge, others apparently do not… I honestly don’t even understand how you can feel pride in achieving something after it’s been dumbed down especially for you… hell, I’d be insulted. The only thing of worth this thread is providing, which mrsrachelm.7618 pointed out surprisingly, is feedback for the dev teams for future updates.

But hey, to each their own I suppose. All for camera fixes and player blocking fixes, still against any proposed nerfs.

Edited some clarification, also forgot to expand on a line I wrote, lol.

Noeh.5960:

incorrect stuff

The OP sounded like a “please nerf this because I’m incapable and everything must be made to accommodate me” to me, maybe I’m just jaded by WoW and what ended up happening with that game.

Also, my 2nd post in this thread I actually did agree that characters blocking each other was an issue. I also acknowledged that although I didn’t have any camera issues, perhaps it was just my setup AKA I didn’t dismiss the potential of the problem just because I didn’t experience it.

Clearly you don’t read before posting. Nothing I say or anyone else in this thread, unless they agree then you guys eat it all up, is going to change your minds. You’re not here to listen to reason or perhaps debate and maybe realize some points, you’re just here in an attempt to get ANet to accommodate your desires. That’s what the majority of the posters here want, at least half of these posts don’t simply say “camera and other players are a problem”, they say “this is too hard because blah blah IRL reason/excuse blah blah make it easier so I can do it too, QQ!”… It is what it is, I hope they administer fixes without nerfing it, that’s my stance.

Cyric out.

Fiddlestyx.9714:

Good news! The whole game is skippable. Talk about missing the point.

Good news! There’s no middle ground, the world revolves around me.

mrsrachelm.7618:

stuff

It’s not the fact that we don’t want you guys to complete the puzzle, it’s the principle of nerfing things just because you lack the ability to do it. You’re right, it’s not going to affect me one way or another if it gets nerfed or not. But I don’t want this to turn into WoW, where everything is made so easy your unborn child can do it from the womb with a series of well placed kicks to the keyboard.

Not to mention, the puzzle is worth 10 achievement points. That’s all. It doesn’t count towards your Emissary of the Mad King title. It doesn’t give you anything unique, not even the Mad King slippers, which are just an already available skin on a soulbound uniquely named item. You literally have next to nothing to gain and absolutely nothing to lose with this puzzle.

There’s no reason to be calling for nerfs on something that is not impossible or, IMHO, even that difficult to begin with. If you can’t do it, move on… what do you think you’re missing? Watch a video, the entire puzzle is you frantically jumping to broken pieces of clocktower with a miasma of green stuff underneath you. Nothing amazing happens.

Jesus H… 10 achievement points… that’s it.

TL;DR – I’m against the mentality of nerfing something that has no bearing on the game just because Johnny Icantdoit is having trouble.

Karthaugh.6532:

I totally agree with the OP. The difficulty would be perfectly fine in a permanent puzzle. But in a holiday event? which is supposed to be fun? I see a hell of a lot of stressed players around. That doesn’t much go with fun I’d say.

Well it’s a good thing the puzzle isn’t worth anything besides achievement points and bragging rights then. It’s not like they gain anything of significance from succeeding… but this is typical of an MMO, people always want things brought down to their level, anyone who doesn’t support the OP is obviously a troll because opposing opinions and perspectives are a fallacy created by the our respective governments. Amirite?

On a less negative note, maybe you guys should stop viewing the puzzle so seriously. I did it my first time in a little over an hour, I shouted bizarre things (mash a household object and a swear word into a sentence, it’s… odd) every time I fell. But I viewed it as a challenge and had a lot of fun. Just saying…

WeLoveKanjimari.6725:

You screwed your argument with that last bit.

If “a large amount of the community thinks X” is reason for something to stay the way it is, why isn’t “A larger amount of the community thinks Y” a reason for it to change?

This puzzle is difficult. But it’s not difficult because it was designed that way. It’s difficult as a product of various ridiculous design flaws with the game- not accounting for the fact that everybody is blocking everyone elses view, not accounting for the still broken camera that causes the camera to slam into you, etc.

It’s frustrating. Waiting for it to start over is frustrating. Watching that cutscene every time is frustrating. Being blocked by other players is frustrating. HAving no sense of your own positioning is frustrating. These are not “Challenging” things- they are frustrating things, and there’s no way you truly believe they are “difficulty” and not “unacceptable design flaws”?

Nonsense, I’ve run into plenty of people who love the puzzle and I see more positive posts about it than negative. As for the “unacceptable design flaws”, half of them are just nitpicking. Standing around chatting with people while you wait for the puzzle to reset isn’t that big of a deal IMO, watching a 5 second cutscene isn’t that big of a deal IMO either. Being blocked by enormous charr and norn is annoying, I’ll agree, but after a few go’s at the puzzle it’s not particularly difficult to remember where to jump. Lastly, I never had a single camera issue with the jump puzzle… I play with my camera about 3-4 clicks out from full zoom in, so maybe that had something to do with it.

Regardless of all this, I stand by my statement that near-meaningless achievements shouldn’t be cheapened for the sake of someone’s inability to _ achieve_ them.

CasiaVulpes.7015:

I don’t really understand why people are so against this getting even the tiniest nerf.

If it gets nerfed, who does it hurt? Nobody.

If it doesn’t, who does it hurt? A number greater than 0.

In a way I’m not against the nerf as much as I’m against ANet going down the path of “let’s make everything easy for everyone” just like “that other game” did.

I don’t want to be “that guy” but can we please not endorse the “it’s too hard for me specifically, it needs nerfing” mentality?

I get that it has limited availability and I get because of that you want to succeed before it’s no longer available. However, the achievement for completing the puzzle doesn’t count towards anything besides your achievement score. So if you’re unable to achieve success then it shouldn’t be lowered to your level and thus cheapened as an achievement, especially if a large amount of the community loves the puzzle and is able to complete it with some effort.

I just completed it with bunch of big Charr blocking my view for the first 15 seconds of it and it only took me a little over an hour. I’m actually delighted with the difficulty and wouldn’t change a thing.

Kudos to ANet for making a fun jumping puzzle.

I have a few posts in this subforum where I’m basically pointing the finger at the aforementioned “entitled” folks and shouting “personal responsibility, nobody made you do it!” and even after reading this I still retain that stance. However, in your post you kind of acknowledge that as part of the problem as well as kind of being set up for failure by the way the event was designed, so I really have nothing to dispute here.

A lot of people would read my posts about taking responsibility and think I’m just blindly fanboying, which I’m not. I just think you’re responsible for something you voluntarily do, that being said, I agree with everything you’ve written here. The design didn’t go as planned and it ended up being a crapshoot, which is very unfortunate for those who participated.

Anyway, extremely well articulated post, much respect to you.

Yamagawa.5941:

Great….that’s the recipes for the gifts. The questioner was asking about the weapons, not the gifts…

Relax stud, I mistakenly thought the bottom recipes were for the actual items. My bad OP, I misunderstood the information I was presenting to you.

Sorry!

chimecat.9082:

@ Cyric, does anyone have a screenshot of the recipe though? Like I said, I’ve seen multiple recipes. That being on the wiki doesn’t make it correct necessarily.

Not that I know about, the wiki is probably the most “complete” knowledge that’s been amassed so far that I’m aware of.

The Mad Moon
Arachnaphobia
The Crossing

SanguiniusChan.6032:

@Cyric

Actually, let me break it down for you.

>To GAMBLE ON
If we’d known we were gambling, no one would have played the gambling game.
>They provide nothing but vanity, making them OPTIONAL
Considering Guild Wars 2’s endgame is quite literally vanity, I’m not sure how that’s a point in your favor. Playing any game to win it is OPTIONAL.
>Spent real money on a system that can be paid with actual game currency
Unfortunately, when people buy a lot of gems, the exchange rate goes up, and gold becomes worth less. Add to that the transfer tax, and it’s actually far more reasonable to pay 20$ for 1600 gems (maybe 20 gold?) than it is to give up 40 gold for the same amount.
>Only had the definition of RARE to go by
Part of the problem is that no one used the word “Rare” anywhere. Nowhere was the word “rare” used. As a result, most people went into this expecting it to be a reasonable drop rate for a fun holiday, not a pseudolegendary rarity designed to broker a stronger in game economy.
>AN fixes it by giving us another shot are RARE
Unfortunately, once more the word Rare was omitted. It didn’t matter at that point, the money was spent, but I’m baffled as to how getting more useless junk was meant to make anyone feel better about being mislead in the first place.

The honest truth is that you’re fanboying so hard to protect AN, when AN is admitting left and right they’re goofing up. They’re big boys. They don’t need your obviously considerable intellect to protect them.

I would imagine after the first couple of chests, people might have started to think something was up. I know I would’ve immediately thought “not guaranteed” and possibly stopped opening chests until I knew exactly what was going on, not fervently spam click through chests. So if you failed to deduce you were playing “the gambling game”, maybe there’s an issue concerning limited intellect.

Obviously playing any game to win is optional, unless you’re part of the Hunger Games, all games are optional. The argument you’re presenting for this part of my breakdown is really stating nothing of relevance, instead giving you the guise of success in a debate even though you’ve debunked nothing.

The price of gems to gold or gold to gems is irrelevant, regardless of what method of obtaining the gems was a better method. Fact of the matter is, you didn’t have to spend actual money. That’s the point, nothing more or less. You had an alternative, whether it was ideal or not isn’t relevant.

If you insist the word “rare” wasn’t used, then fine. I will concede that part of my argument is flawed, however, it didn’t take long for the community to come to the conclusion the skins were exceedingly uncommon.

As for fanboying for ANet, think what you will. It doesn’t matter to me what company it was, all I’m trying to say is that the majority of people raising pitchforks seem to dismiss the fact that the choice to participate in the “gamble” was completely up to them. That’s my point, I don’t personally approve of the RNG or cash shop being such a big part of the holiday, but it is what it is. If I spent $500 on chests and got one item skin, I’d be a bit perplexed and probably filled with regret, but I wouldn’t blame ANet for something I chose to do.

Wayshuba.5912:

Sentinel VX.1392:

Why do you think casinos exist in real life? Even the government doesn’t put gambling as illegal activity.

First, this is an MMO NOT a casino. When did it become acceptable for video games to be considered CASINOS?

Secondly, the federal government does not put limits on gambling because of the land usage which makes it a sovereign right of the state governments, of which in the vast majority of states in America gambling is illegal. The only exception is Native American reservation lands, which is how most states (like Michigan and Washington State where ArenaNet is HQd) have casinos.

Okay, let’s break this down for you and everyone else to understand. Before we start, let’s toss one rule out there to keep this as logical as possible, and that rule is that your opinion doesn’t matter. Whatever you think an MMO should or shouldn’t do and should or shouldn’t be doesn’t matter because we’re discussing what is.

• So ANet created these fantabulous item skins inside BLCs for players to GAMBLE on during the Halloween event.
• These skins provide nothing to the player beyond vanity, therefore making them OPTIONAL.
• Players spent varying amounts of real money, in a system that can be manipulated with the use of in-game currency, to purchase the above mentioned BLCs.
• The odds of obtaining these RARE skins was never announced and players only had the definition of RARE to go by.
• Players didn’t receive desired items and went into a forum rage, implying they are somehow being coerced into OPTIONAL GAMBLING.
• ANet decides to attempt to make amends by producing a MKC that can be crafted with all the “useless junk” the aforementioned players received.
• Once again there is no announcement to the odds of obtaining RARE skins, however it is guaranteed players will at least obtain Halloween based items.
• Once again players spend more real money, in a system that can be manipulated with the use of in-game currency, to purchase BLC in an attempt to obtain RARE skins.
• Failure to do so results in aforementioned players crafting MKCs with “failed” BLC items and attempting to obtain the RARE skins again.
• Some players don’t receive desired items, instead only receiving Halloween based items like ANet stated, and proceed to go into a forum rage about being cheated by OPTIONAL GAMBLING. (even though the tooltip for MKC states the skins are RARE)

Boy, you guys sure did get shafted by ANet. /sarcasm

Seriously, you guys have nobody to blame but yourselves. You took the risk, nobody forced it upon you. Whatever expectations you had, were YOURS, nobody gave you any false information. So please, tell us all again how your choices/decisions aren’t your fault.

Also, because I know most of you have a barely passable command of your native tongue and for some of you it just isn’t your native tongue, allow to me elaborate on the definitions of important words in my list.

ANet should take a little from Fallen Earth, they always had a couple GMs in the game. Sometimes they’d be moderating the various chat channels, sometimes they’d be checking out bugs with players, and sometimes they’d be hosting events for the community. Hell, even Rohan:Blood Feud had in game GMs! I actually recall PMing one once about a bot I was watching, he teleported to me, stood there doing something on his end for a couple minutes, then POOF! the bot was gone.

There’s hardly an excuse for rampant botting… there’s no better defense against botting and gold seller spam than an active GM team.

NightShadow.1429:

People are going to kitten no matter what they do. It’s chance. Always has been. They said you’ll get a second chance, and that the other items associated with the Mad King chest would be Halloween related (as that was another item of contention). They did not however state that the chance of a skin would increase exponentially or become guaranteed. Really tired of seeing this. You want a skin, farm, get gold and buy one.

What this guy said. You gambled and lost, if those Halloween mats are such a letdown then feel free to send’em to me, I have an Arachnaphobia to craft.

People are never happy, I swear.

spacemayu.4817:

But Act 1 is for 4 days; the most days of any of the events.

So it should have the most things to do… but it doesn’t!

All there is to do is: Farm Candycorn, Farm Haunted Doors, Get the book, carve pumpkins…

That’s it.

Wah, wah, wah, wah, wah.

You could try to find the new jumping puzzles or the new mini dungeons, you even participate in the perpetual costume brawls in Lion’s Arch.

Oldgrimm.8521:

but guys in your stats as of now, what is your current crit damage %?

My armor is level 80 Valkyrie exotics slotted with the Superior Rune of the Scholar set. My daggers are level 80 Berserker exotics with Superior Sigil of Air and Superior Sigil of Accuracy. My accessories are level 80 Beryl Valkyrie exotics slotted with exquisite beryl gems.

At base stats (no buffs) I’m sitting at approximately 3.4k power, 25% crit chance, 100 crit damage, and 17k health. With 25 stacks of my Superior Sigil of Accuracy and my traits constantly proccing the fury boon, I’m usually capped at 55%-ish crit chance in combat. My highest backstab after the recent change to Assassin’s Signet was 10k on a downed warrior, although my backstabs normally range from 7k-9k so that warrior might’ve been undergeared or underleveled, I don’t know.

So yeah, that’s my stuff, hope I added something helpful for you.

Outamyhead.4812:

Where are you finding all the candy corn besides Queensdale?

There is an unholy amount of candy corn floating around the WvW maps.

BAMFZILLA.1850:

The items in the bag, not the actual nodes is what I meant haha

Those will most definitely stay, dev confirmed and all that jazz. Better get harvesting, I’m sitting on 800 right now. :\

EDIT: Uh, I mean I have like 40… but I’m wasting them on everything because, um, they’re never gonna be worth anything!! >.>

Zenge.7856:

I got mine done. It’s really easy to do in an hour or 2

Well done, sir. I’ll probably get mine some time tomorrow, I haven’t had a chance today as I’ve been farming the hell out of candy corn. I’m up to 800 and some change, what’s funny to me is I hate candy corn IRL. -.-

Guanglai Kangyi.4318:

You guys realize you can kill a thief in like 2 auto-attacks, and you don’t even need to target him? If you see a thief targeting you just swing a few times then mash F to finish him.

Hell, you don’t even need to finish him really. What’s he gonna do, get up and die again?

Lmfao! While grossly exaggerated, that last line made me LOL for realzies.

I’m also confused by this thread. I’m a backstab thief myself and I actually like the changes to AS more than the old model for it…

Critwrench.8432:

Cyric, try equipping the book.

Ahhhhh… duh. -.-

What…?

One of us is confused. When you say “scavenger hunt” you’re referring to the quest to find 6 ghosts detailing the life of Mad King Thorn or are you referring to something I haven’t encountered yet?

I’m guessing you’re referring to something else since you can’t transmute a book… onto your back…

Masternewbz.4953:

seems like u.

Ever played other classes besides thief?

/thread.

thief is OP and I played elementalist/mesmer.

Between this thread and the one you started, you’re either mad or definitely trolling.

Yes actually, I have a 6x engineer that I play more often than my thief lately.

Thieves are OP because players are bad and prefer to be ignorant about other classes outside of their own.

/thread

Reading the introductory paragraph led me to believe you were going to attempt to reword our traits to be more informative, however most of the descriptions you’ve typed out here seem identical to their in-game counterparts or you’ve just added unnecessary additional description. You probably could’ve saved yourself a lot of space by just typing out the ones you actually did change for the better, lol.

Red Falcon.8257:

“Hey honey I’ve seen a site on your PC the other day, let me see web history to see if I can fin-”
Double dodge + double infiltrator arrow + withdraw + roll for initiative + shadowstep.

This made me LOL IRL! xD

I wish I could dodge roll to my car to avoid post one night stand awkward morning encounters.

Oldgrimm.8521:

thanks, im just trying to figure out how did that thief reach 21k hp with all orbs at wvwvw, im trying to calculate, he or she must have at least 18k+ base hp

No problem, hopefully a more knowledgeable thief will pop in here and shed some light on that for you.

Good luck!

Oldgrimm.8521:

but just a question, with your current set up can you reach at least 18k+ hp?

With WvW orbs I can, otherwise no, unless there is some food buffs I’m unaware of that’ll dump 2k HP into my health pool. Currently I’m mostly exotic (just missing a few armor pieces) and I sit at 16k HP without buffs.

Oldgrimm.8521:

my build is not really solely based on backstab,

im just torn or my concern is having or not having a toughness stat in my build,

Well my build isn’t focused entirely on backstab, some of my build is purposed around making my opener an effective backstab, but after that it’s about being able to survive. I can only truly “one shot” squishies, medium armor classes usually eat the backstab and take a couple hits to put down, it’s those heavies that make me think twice. Even with that, I have the HP to go toe to toe with them long enough to decide if I want to commit or retreat before my face gets melted off.

I recently thought about maybe sacrificing some vitality for toughness, but as your OP indicates, you can’t have both… not with my setup anyway. -.-

EDIT: I personally value vitality over toughness though due to our low base HP and other class’ ability to attain high burst as well. I have a level 56 engineer that has roughly 209 vitality stacked (not intentionally, I don’t really start kitting out until 70) and he is already at 10k HP… which is a level 80 thief’s base HP.

Depends on your build.

I run a backstab build and use Valkyrie gear. I’m sitting at 16k HP standard, 3.3k power, and 100 critical damage.

I would love to see a lot of these implemented, but Rohan was a much more brutal game than I predict this ever will be.

If I had to pick one though, the Sealing Circle would be my choice. Nothing like watching your enemy turn to run, realize they can’t, and turn back to a stealthed thief with a gleam in his/her eye.

Good times, good times.

You played Rohan:Blood Feud, didn’t you? Love the assassin techniques in that game, lol.

I’m gonna split my gold between a backstab nerf and/or a signet nerf. With all the QQing about how OP backstab is coupled with thieves trying to explain it’s the signet, I expect to see this get rolled into one unrighteous nerf.

Greyfeld.7104:

I completely agree, and I hope that Anet takes these complaints seriously, but…

QUEST COMPLETE HAVE SOME MAGIC PANTS.

This totally cracked me up xD

I also agree and also LOL’d at the same line. xD

I can’t even defend this, man… you’re not helping our image at all. -.-

I’ve had this happen to me a couple times and thanks to this thread, now I know why.

Pretty pathetic if a player resorts to this tactic.

Wildclaw.6073:

So you downed a bunch of players and didn’t manage to finish any of them off, and then you come here and complain about your own incompetence.

I would hardly call not being able to stomp the 4/5 players he downed single handedly incompetence as much as I’d call it a silly mechanic for PvP.

No you didn’t. You downed him. Then you failed to finish him off.

And no, everything leading up to that wasn’t pointless. If you had taken less damage, then he wouldn’t have been able to counter-down you, and you would have won.

You’re absolutely right and that’s my issue. I don’t think downed state, in it’s present incarnation, belongs in PvP because I think one victory should be enough. I don’t agree with having to defeat someone twice just to get the kill, which most of the time in WvW doesn’t even net you anything anyway.

Reading some of the other posts, I agree with the ideas to increase stomp speed, tweak rallying, and/or tweak how players are revived.

Ralathar.7236:

Cyric.7485:

Ya know, I used to just kind of shrug at threads like this until about 10 minutes ago. I’m in WvW 1v1ing with a ranger (I’m a thief), he gets the jump on me and really lays into me. In fact, he almost burst my 16k down before I could reach him, but I managed to use Hide in Shadows. So I get to him, we start duking it out and I manage to put him into the downed state. I have like 2k HP left and I begin the eternally annoying process of stomping someone… wouldn’t you know, he puts me into down state AND kills me from his own downed state.

I’m sorry, but that’s total bull if you ask me. You shouldn’t have to kill someone TWICE in one match for ONE victory, this isn’t Street Fighter. Not to mention, I put him into the downed state about 2-3 seconds before I went down, kinda makes sense that I would come out on top since neither of us could heal and he would be lower on HP from being in the downed state longer than me.

Overall, I support the removal of the downed state from PvP, it’s just an obnoxious mechanic.

Actually that depends on builds same as any fight. Plus, PERSPECTIVE PEOPLE. Isn’t is BS that he started with a ridiculous amount of damage on you and yet you downed him first? Why the hell would you try to stomp with no health left knowing rangers have an interrupt? Especially if his pet was still up.

I’m sorry, But you lost that fight fair and square because YOU screwed up. You should have hit him hard instead of trying to stomp, but you failed to make the right decision.

Being less angry about it now, I can take a closer look at what happened and also say some of your points are valid. I probably shouldn’t have tried to stomp him with such low health, tunnel vision I guess. But that brings up the point of why wouldn’t I try to finish him? Kind of stupid, IMO, to put someone down and have to run away therefore gaining nothing from the engagement whatsoever, even though you managed to win.

I used Cloak and Dagger to initiate a stealth stomp so unless rangers have an aoe interrupt (not that knowledgeable about them), my gamble should’ve paid off. Also, I’d like to think my ability to react to his glass cannon burst and put him down wasn’t some “thieves are OP” fluke. It wasn’t like I one shotted him, I hit him hard when I finally was able to get into melee range with a Basilisk Backstab combo and stuck to him while he tried to kite me… it was a ridiculously close fight.

TL;DR – Regardless of mistakes made during/after the fight, I “defeated” him. Being killed by someone in downed state almost makes the entire fight leading to the downed state phase pointless.

Ya know, I used to just kind of shrug at threads like this until about 10 minutes ago. I’m in WvW 1v1ing with a ranger (I’m a thief), he gets the jump on me and really lays into me. In fact, he almost burst my 16k down before I could reach him, but I managed to use Hide in Shadows. So I get to him, we start duking it out and I manage to put him into the downed state. I have like 2k HP left and I begin the eternally annoying process of stomping someone… wouldn’t you know, he puts me into down state AND kills me from his own downed state.

I’m sorry, but that’s total bull if you ask me. You shouldn’t have to kill someone TWICE in one match for ONE victory, this isn’t Street Fighter. Not to mention, I put him into the downed state about 2-3 seconds before I went down, kinda makes sense that I would come out on top since neither of us could heal and he would be lower on HP from being in the downed state longer than me.

Overall, I support the removal of the downed state from PvP, it’s just an obnoxious mechanic.

QSpec.4298:

@ Wolfe

Come on, man… this hyperbole is making it difficult to have a reasonableconversation. I play a thief in pvp. I don’t want to see them nerfed to hell either, but there are some things that need to be realistically adjusted.

The squishy build BS is probably out of line. BS itself is not. That said, let’s not pretend that once the cheese build blows all of his cooldowns for the insta-gib that the thief is worthless. BS still hits hard (just not as hard) and the thief can still contribute (now vs a team who is down one person). Is he as good as he is with his CDs up? Absolutely not, but to say he is weak is, as I said above, hyperbole.

Moreover, I am tired of the thief has no defense. In a vacuum? Yes, the thief is weak. If he were to just stand there and let any other class pound on him, yes, he is weak. That said, thieves get one of the single best defensive skills in the game on a relatively low cooldown. When I am on my thief and I lose a fight, more often than not that just means I have to run away for a few seconds… when I am on my necro and I lose a fight, I am looking at a respawn timer.

Touché, sir, touché. I find a big problem between classes is the ignorance, a lot of classes don’t know the ins and outs of the other classes (myself included). This leads to absurd blanket statements about other classes, for instance, I notice lots of people think thieves are just 100% benefits. Thieves don’t have the smallest selection of weapons combinations in the game, thieves don’t have abysmal base health and armor, thieves never get hit by attacks because we’re always stealth or in some form of a dodge, every attack by a thief is a spammable 10k crit, etc etc… you see my point.

When it’s all said and done, I think that perhaps thieves should be toned down a small amount and all the other classes need to have their bugs fixed and be appropriately buffed to the perceived level of a thief. Or if not that, maybe make toughness scale better or something, I don’t know. It’s the same age old argument, at this point I’m just waiting to see if it’ll be the same age old solution of nerfing the rogue archetype into uselessness.

Ecliptica.7509:

Thieves:
- Dont need vit/tou , just invis/dodge (Lolwut)
- High Base dmg (Okay)
- All specs go atack/crit= massive dmg (We do have condition builds also, so no)
- Crit rate in this game its like playing a thieve in gw2, to easy. (Makes no sense)
- Nearly imposible to kitte a good thieve. (So being a “good” thief is a fault now)
- Invis bug. (Works both ways)

They have it all.

Moving on…

Oni.6841:

The problem with the thief, is that their backstab numbers are so ridiculous, they feel the shortbow is inadaquate.

This whole “once our combo is gone, we are screwed” is nonsense. You get a pew pew shortbow that is probably better than the rangers shortbow.

I like the whole “I have no mobility”…. you know.. except for that spammable teleport on your shortbow….

Um… never once have I lamented my short bow doesn’t compete with my backstab. Unless I’m fighting more than one enemy, I’m probably not going to use my short bow, especially since it’s an AoE condition based weapon. What thief says they have no mobility? Where do you people get all this absurd information from? We’re one of the most mobile classes in the entire game, lol, short bow is actually obsolete in terms of giving us mobility ever since we realized Heartseeker gives us more distance for a lesser/equal amount of initiative.

By the way, the average thief has 10 initiative. Last time I checked, Infiltrator’s Arrow (“spammable teleport”) costs 5 initiative per shot. So when we decide to “spam” it a whopping two times, guess what, ALL our abilities are now unusable because we have zero initiative.

ostracize.8316:

The Thief on the other hand can move while pistol whipping, can cast them back to back, and it’s considerably harder to dodge the thief with his movement speed.

Except the thief actually cannot move while Pistol Whipping. So with that being said, we can knock the movement speed reason out of here since it no longer applies and that leaves us with the initiative system.

I’m not even going to get into initiative because the majority of the non-thief player-base is so blissfully ignorant about it that they think we can just spam forever and ever and ever and ever and ever and ever…