Guild Wars 2

Blood Red Arachnid.2493:

It doesn’t matter if it gives a significant improvement. All that matters is if the potency of that skill competes with the others. When power builds needed ascended gear to compete with condition build’s exotic gear, then that’s a problem.

… But it doesn’t. At all. I’ve no idea how you guys do your math and crazy numbers but condition damage isn’t ever going to do better than raw consistent burst simply because one stack never hits that kind of damage. Ever.

Fire elemental should be combined with a statue for Balthazar effect and rain fire on the play area.

Blood Red Arachnid.2493:

As for the OP, I suppose the biggest issue I have is that I see this completely in reverse. It isn’t unfair to other builds because power builds get a 5% increase via weapon strength with ascended. It is unfair to power builds because they have to get ascended to get their full potential. It is an extra demand necessary for the build.

This makes no sense. The best tier gives you significantly improved potential and you are complaining while the best tier does not significantly improve the potential of other builds?

Is this real life?

You don’t realize the implications of adding +x% healing or -x% damage. That would make options like Knights way too powerful or making getting a healing power of 3,000 (which is way too much) not only possible but normally recognizable.

Damage is one thing but balancing survival is a whole new can of worms. I can already think of a number of builds I’ve made that would just never, ever die.

Now I have to test it with as little condition power as possible. Again.

Use pure damage and try to win through outsmarting and outmaneuvering. Sometimes the best offense is a good set of utilities.

Rifle is still a strong contender.
He’s been nerfed into the ground but still has decent sustain and defense.
Your main goal is creating fields and to some degree focusing on damage and using mitigation like shields for defense.

Engineer, due to the nerfs and a change in which conditions stack, has gotten more complicated to play though for conditions.

The answer is GS Mesmer.

“The Rune of the Berserker also increases your overall damage output by 5%, wich extremly strong, especially since it works for conditions aswell.”

This isn’t actually true. It increases your condition damage by 5% but does not increase the damage of conditions by 5%. There is a measurable difference.

+1 My paperweights are ready.

Rocknull.2986:

DGraves.3720:

Rocknull.2986:

Rr worked for me in wvw. Alone it seems silly low but in wvw I always have swiftness plus a regeneration flowing tack on backpack regen and mango pie it really starts to add up.being able to break away from a fight and regen like a beast has its uses.
the only tuff part for me was putting it all together while superspeed is active. But yes it Def worked very well. They are both very good traits I think . Rr I feel has more potential

You brought up Mango Pie. For that I want to talk about what I used to do when i was benchmarking whether something was worth it or not. Once upon a time I would convert Mango Pie into healing power coefficients and see the “match”; if the matching value was too high it wasn’t worth it.

For instance M. Pie does 85/s (iirc) so in order to get an additional 85 out of RR-swiftness you need 2,125 healing power. I… can’t say that’s a good thing. In other words all things equal if you took full healing power major gear and maxed it out in every way possible you would be barely getting more than just eating mango pie.

The purpose of this was not only to test efficiency but to test necessity. After all in order for it to work in your favor it has to A ) not be cumbersome and B ) be reasonably powerful. To prove the point to get 85 out of just basic regeneration you need 680 hp and that means you’ll get 312.5% out of the healing power if you take both of these in just the regeneration. This ignores the base of course.

So mango pie is more bang for your buck? Or healing power sucks? Im sorry man but your almost to smart to talk to . I know some people like this so i know it is better to be patient and learn then to criticize and objectify. So what the hell u talkin about? Seriously u lost me a little.

So we can pretty reliably get 800+hp/sec burst heal and more like 300hp/sec semi passive play and this is while still going balls to the wall damage.

MM will give you a good power boost if you are running high toughness but I feel toughness is really lacking use or missing all together in current game types (pve,pvp/wvw)

OP just make the best build in the world using MM and Juggy and fire arms. do it!

The idea behind converting is simple:

If you take a base (that is, something you can have up most if not all the time) regeneration and convert it into a mango pie you can see how effective your points are spent. “If it takes 2,125 healing power to just get a mango pie out of this skill it’s probably not a good skill.” is the simplest conclusion.

You can do this with anything including sigils and whatnot like +5% damage can be converted into power and +7% critical strike into precision, etc. It basically tells you how much you are adding to your limited pool of stats that you control and how well and efficiently you are spending them. Obviously it’s inefficient to use RR with swiftness because just a basic mango pie beats it with no problem and it has a gimmick that can be countered.

Twigifire.8379:

DGraves.3720:

Twigifire.8379:

Furthermore, the regeneration actually will save you for the next incoming burst, since you’ll have more HP, whereas the extra damage won’t do squat.

I want to focus on this.

Why do you believe that the weakest regenerative ability the Engineer has by miles will save you? Realistically one thousand HP every 10s, or it’s true hps of just 100, isn’t … meaningful. At all. You will die to basic autoattacks from a Nomad rifle warrior at that rate.

Between the two it isn’t that the might will save you but that the rapid regeneration will not save you; it’s the only thing it’s supposed to do and it just won’t do it. Ever.

You’ll die but you’ll take a whole heap more hits. And it does save people all the time. Backpack regenerator is in the same tier and is sub-par, yet some people still take it because of that extra sustain. If you’ve fought some decent players or been in 1vX scenarios you’d know that this sustain is paramount to ideal performance.

No, you won’t. Unless “whole heap” = one more through dumb luck? Also, backpack regenerator is the better option not only for a higher base and coefficient but because it doesn’t have a hindering gimmick and no one can force you out of it. Boon strip? You’re done. It’s easily countered, it’s got a short-lived “sweet spot” that isn’t really maintainable and requires too much to maintain (superspeed) and the swiftness side is just terrible plus one really popular way to keep swiftness is to swap kits thus the point.

Also, I know a lot about sustain. This is kitten sustain. That’s about it. I mean you can dance around it all you want but it’s not BiS in any sense even without running kits; you’d be better off just giving yourself actual regeneration which you can do easily with a medkit swap and pressing 1 or even better just picking up a kit after a crit if you’re playing tanky with bunker down.

guildabd.6529:

I tested flamethrower dps vs condi dps to pvp indestructible golem (kill 3 times as fast as possible):

Flamethrower 1 spam. 10 might, some quickness and fury.
Amulet: Berserker
Rune: Scholar
3 golem kills: 63.12s

Complex condition rotation. No boons:
Armor: Rabid
Rune: Balthazar
3 golem kills: 43.26s.

Condition without napalm or bombs (those may miss a moving boss). No boons
Armor: Rabid
Rune: Balthazar
3 golem kills: 59.58s

The difference is about 4 – 20 seconds. I still believe flamethrower may win after a long time, not by doing more dps, but hitting the boss for longer time.
Not sure about sinister or viper.

You can’t actually do these tests. The reason is that power scales much better than condition damage so PvP stats which have much lower caps make condition damage look much better. To illustrate the illusion:

1:10

1,000:1,0000

The difference between the first pair is 9.

The difference between the second pair is 9,000.

Ratio’s the same though.

You’d have to do a lot of upscaling math to get accurate numbers.

xiiliea.9356:

I’m making an Engineer and looking at this guide http://metabattle.com/wiki/Build:Engineer_-_Condition_Raids but I have a few questions:

1) The guide recommends Sigil of Geomancy, but that only procs on weapon swap. Does that mean I need 4 pistols? (might be a stupid question but I just wanna confirm before getting 4 pistols)

This made my day.

For me it’s Mesmer. I hate playing it. I hate facing it. Nemesiiiiiis.

So your economic scheme comes to an end. Viva E Pubricus!

Holy kitten!

What have I been doing with my life?

Zoltar MacRoth.7146:

DGraves.3720:

Zoltar MacRoth.7146:

DGraves.3720:

Instant character deletion if not revived within 300s. Permanent. Hardcore.

Pfft. I’ve seen this question several times now, each poster labelling it as ‘hardcore’ while giving themselves an out like your “..if not revived within 300s”.

That’s not hardcore. This (channelling Mick Dundee) is hardcore: no escape clause and on death, your entire account is deleted. Ha! Would you play that hardcore?

I would. Then I could stop wasting time.

Would you though? That’s an experiment we’ll probably never get an answer to.

If Path of Exile counts then it’s already been done. Sadly.

Twigifire.8379:

Furthermore, the regeneration actually will save you for the next incoming burst, since you’ll have more HP, whereas the extra damage won’t do squat.

I want to focus on this.

Why do you believe that the weakest regenerative ability the Engineer has by miles will save you? Realistically one thousand HP every 10s, or it’s true hps of just 100, isn’t … meaningful. At all. You will die to basic autoattacks from a Nomad rifle warrior at that rate.

Between the two it isn’t that the might will save you but that the rapid regeneration will not save you; it’s the only thing it’s supposed to do and it just won’t do it. Ever.

“So why didnt i go back to spending the time in PvE? PvE on the base game essentially is designed for kids between the ages of 7 and 12. "

I agree. There is definitely too much complexity here for toddlers and that makes them better than many games on the market.

Zoltar MacRoth.7146:

DGraves.3720:

Instant character deletion if not revived within 300s. Permanent. Hardcore.

Pfft. I’ve seen this question several times now, each poster labelling it as ‘hardcore’ while giving themselves an out like your “..if not revived within 300s”.

That’s not hardcore. This (channelling Mick Dundee) is hardcore: no escape clause and on death, your entire account is deleted. Ha! Would you play that hardcore?

I would. Then I could stop wasting time.

Jugglemonkey.8741:

I have 554 healing power in my build (sinister cele hybrid), so I get 199+109=308 healing per second (rounded down to nearest integer value) from regen and rapid regen respectively. That’s 18507 healing per minute. Rapid regeneration simply gets better the longer the fight is provided you have good regeneration and swiftness uptime, which with defender runes and elixir b I have plenty of both. Obviously this is from a WvW perspective, take the extra power in PvE if you want.

In my game how much healing you get in a minute doesn’t matter when you take a hit worth more than a quarter of your HP in an instant. You know what gets better the longer the fight? Sustain. In general. You know what doesn’t get better the longer the fight? Your odds of survival when you get hit for more than 308 damage.

guildabd.6529:

Not even with 100% crit change, 25 might and near permanent quickness?

No. While it sounds like a dream come true boon duration comes at a cost and that cost is power and the weapon doesn’t hit like a truck to begin with so …

So let’s say the death penalty is much, much higher. Not some silly “you loose X% exp.” like those other games which incentivize you doing nothing over and over. No. And not “pay some golds to waypoint” because that is weak and scares no one. No. What if … when you died you actually died for real?

Instant character deletion if not revived within 300s. Permanent. Hardcore.

Would you use toughness then?

You’ll get banned. I am banning you.

So you want to enter a raid or whatever and you come with your favorite class. But no one likes that class. The question is: What is the class?

I know there is still hate for at least a few classes and the whole “free will” and “play as you want” front is just not realistic these days. Unless it is. Then I know nothing. Nomad’s is still the best.

I liked your intro.

Obviously this is your opinion so I won’t correct you when you’re wrong. But seriously, what do you think?

It works like anything else engineer related. If you’re good, it’s good.

Once upon a time Juggernaut gave +200 toughness. It was never meant to be an offensive weapon so much as it was to be a bunker weapon. You detered enemies with it and could get some kills but realistically it was to keep people moving not to be OP and do crazy damage.

In raids this tactic obviously will not work.

The running problem with all of the trait lines for the engineer are the same in which one line caters to too many weapons and set-ups but also caters to them all poorly.

Top lane should be grenade enhancements.
Mid lane should be bombs.
Bottom lane should be mortar.

It’s just that simple.

No need for gimmicks involving blind, etc. since people won’t run plenty of clear anyway and bombs are way too slow to take advantage of, after reacting to, a blind due to the lag of swapping to the kit to begin with and then laying and awaiting the explosion.

Hm. Get well soon.

1. EPK used to have no cooldown.
2. Bombs being unblockable is pointless.
3. TD is pointless.
4. Soothing Detonation is horrible.

Keep in mind that bombs do not in and of themselves trigger blast finishers. Only one bomb actually produces that effect and it’s a toolbelt skill.

Jourdelune.7456:

Please give back healing bombs to make those viable again.

Yes.

Upgrade the shrapnel trait from 15% to 50% chance to condies…

No.

Yes. You just have to build a legendary flamethrower first.

“Best in show”.

Such curious modeling. I still would like to see this somehow put to real use to show value though. Seems close to a marginal analysis.

I can’t wait until two years from now where they inroduce a harvesting tool that just harvests all the nodes on a map with two clicks all at once. Then and only then will your request be granted.

I played around with it and realized it’s just a playstyle thing. I went defensive and just ran knights with rune of the scrapper. It did surprisingly well. I presume if I had paladin’s armor it would do better, but I don’t, so I can’t tell you. The utilities are something one just does on their own imo.

Well, I don’t want you to kitten it, I want to kitten it using your model. Partially because I am curious about a few BiS pieces in the power set. I’m not convinced they are the best options. Especially pinpoint distribution. I’ll do it later.

Whatever you want. Literally.

Rocknull.2986:

Rr worked for me in wvw. Alone it seems silly low but in wvw I always have swiftness plus a regeneration flowing tack on backpack regen and mango pie it really starts to add up.being able to break away from a fight and regen like a beast has its uses.
the only tuff part for me was putting it all together while superspeed is active. But yes it Def worked very well. They are both very good traits I think . Rr I feel has more potential

You brought up Mango Pie. For that I want to talk about what I used to do when i was benchmarking whether something was worth it or not. Once upon a time I would convert Mango Pie into healing power coefficients and see the “match”; if the matching value was too high it wasn’t worth it.

For instance M. Pie does 85/s (iirc) so in order to get an additional 85 out of RR-swiftness you need 2,125 healing power. I… can’t say that’s a good thing. In other words all things equal if you took full healing power major gear and maxed it out in every way possible you would be barely getting more than just eating mango pie.

The purpose of this was not only to test efficiency but to test necessity. After all in order for it to work in your favor it has to A ) not be cumbersome and B ) be reasonably powerful. To prove the point to get 85 out of just basic regeneration you need 680 hp and that means you’ll get 312.5% out of the healing power if you take both of these in just the regeneration. This ignores the base of course.

So then what is your main issue? Damage? Defense? I mean I know what I would change but that’s my natural playstyle so it probably wouldn’t help. It depends on what you want more of.

Rozbuska.5263:

DGraves.3720:

Rozbuska.5263:

Yea gemstore skins for turrets/pets/minions would be nice

Would you actually pay for a new turret look? Because it costs money to produce the skins since someone has to design them so …

Ofc. Someone told you that you can buy skins with ingame gold in this game right?:-P

You must have nothing else to buy. I always forget about that; I am always buying something ridiculously expensive.

One last question before I embark; if I choose to change something in your builds that you posted these results for will the results vary wildly? If so, how wildly?

Crafting is for those who wish to experiment with the game’s systems. If you know what you want though, no, and if you never change armor or weapons to test things out, no. Otherwise it gets expensive fast to try out new things even in just basic exotic armor let alone ascended because the insignias are the most expense parts.

Xyonon.3987:

DGraves.3720:

So do your findings confirm the previously known rotations or challenge them? I guess in the end that’s what matters.

The rotation is an illusion.

So what is the optimal rotation under your system? Or is it just “go by color”? I have to test your model now.

Edit: Or you could and post the footage. That’d be nice too.

What is the main objective of this build exactly?

Roaming?

Rozbuska.5263:

Yea gemstore skins for turrets/pets/minions would be nice

Would you actually pay for a new turret look? Because it costs money to produce the skins since someone has to design them so …

Ah, yeah, I didn’t even bother look at the top of the screenshot.

So do your findings confirm the previously known rotations or challenge them? I guess in the end that’s what matters.