Guild Wars 2

Manasa Devi.7958:

Why would I go to a merchant? I don’t have to go to a merchant. That’s something the new system appears to introduce for me.

Correct. I only go to a merchant maybe once per day (per character I play), and that’s just to keep my inventory clean (for aesthetic reasons, and so that I don’t have to check when I next go out with that character).

Now, to do that, I admit I have to have enough empty slots in my inventory to hold all of the minor runes and sigils. (Fine and lower do not generate runes or sigils, and rares and higher I usually sell on the TP immediately upon salvaging them.) But, that’s MY CHOICE.

Rashagar.8349:

Because within days of release the drop rates etc will be understood by those that want to know and there will be people who buy them en masse for their massed coppers of profit after prices normalise, amd especially if the price of something fluctuates enough to make it massed tens of coppers or even massed silvers.

Not if the TP price is lower than the minimum sale price, which seems extremely likely. (I can’t imagine anybody actually paying for the things.)

warbignime.4610:

Manasa Devi.7958:

People seem to think it’s an advantage they stack to 250. How’s that an advantage when you’re finally sitting down to ID that stack? Getting hundreds of useless blues and greens at a time and more green sigils and runes than you’ve ever seen before?

It solves nothing. It just postpones the misery, plus it adds a fee and a few extra steps of busywork for good measure. It’s an absolutely awful prospect.

That doesn’t make any sense, it is more convenient.
1000 gears comparison

Old system: salvage all 20 times-go to merchant 20 times
New system: Wait until 4 stacks and go to merchant 1 time-salvage all.

How is that not more convienient?

Because nobody has enough room for 1000 items in their packs. Or even 250.

Codes.6870:

Sooner or later they will sell something at the Gemstore called “The Copper-Fed-I-Dentifier” for 800 gems.

As near as I can tell, that needs to be “gold-fed”.

Hannelore.8153:

From my time on these forums I’ve determined that casual means the following:
- Completely flat map with uninteresting terrain that is easy to cross
- Speed across entire map in an instant, preferably by teleporting (somehow, having this ability is necessary alongside also having a flat map)
- Spend a few seconds only killing a mob by only pressing one button
- Overcome all challenges even in extremely inefficient gear and builds, without having to think about complexity
- Do not require other players for any event, not even group events
- No aggro from mobs, no skills from mobs, no danger from mobs
- No CC, no conditions, nothing that requires any kind of counter-play or quick thinking
- Everything as quick as possible, everyone is busy busy these days, can’t stop to actually play a game
- Always rewards, even for doing nothing at all
- Define fun as the embodiment of getting things for nothing, instead of immersion, challenge or time investment

More that I forget, but we all know what they are by now.

All 10 of your points are demonstrably false. Try again.

I hope you’ve seen the massive outcry against identifying loot (at least as currently presented). If not, https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/gw2/Unidentified-gear-Please-No-No-No-Nooooo/page/6. Please let us know your thoughts, because several people have said this is a make-or-break issue for them.

I sure hope it’s an unintended bug that they (eventually) fix. Targeting one profession over all the others just isn’t right.

Hannelore.8153:

How many Necromancers did you know who made their character because of the lore and not so they could get fast and easy XP and loot?

I’m one. My first toon was a necro. He’s also my favorite since they nerfed ranger into oblivion with the Druid specialization.

Well, I’m using one shortcut, which points to the 32-bit file. However, I think it actually executes the 64-bit one. Not 100% sure, though. I have to wait for an update.

I disagree almost completely. But, you may be missing something I noticed:

Balthazar (war/fire) – Primordus (fire)
Melandru – Mordremoth (both life)
Lyssa – Kraalkatorick (both chaos)
Dwayna (icy color, skills in GW1) – Jormag (icy)
Grenth – Zhaitan (both death)
Abaddon/Kormir (secrets) – an unnamed deep sea dragon? (Unnamed = secret.)

It can’t be a coincidence that five of the six human gods (who found and gave humans magic) just happen to nicely fit into the shells of 5 of the 6 dragons’ power spheres.

I don’t think it jumps around. I think there are still 9 or 10 enemies and antagonists to defeat, and they’re all starting to become active again. Each chapter just reveals a little more of their stories.

I didn’t make it very far (had a wedding and other events this weekend). However, I have to say that the identifying of items is a really REALLY bad idea. It can’t be allowed to survive as is, if at all. It’s too expensive, and not granular enough. Rares, exotics, and ascended should never occur unless it’s clear when you get it that that’s what they are (AND whether there’s a precursor present).

One more thing, STIHL: If you start the first LWS2 episode first, there are two major spoilers for HoT that show up. MAJOR spoilers. If you don’t care much about the HoT story line, that’s OK.

But, if you would like to hold out hope for eventually playing through HoT, at least at the story level, then maybe you should have someone go through the HoT storyline with you first (I’ll help; I still have 15 characters that need to go through at least part of it). Or, read through it on the Wiki. And, use Bitterfrost Frontier (episode 3, A Crack in the Ice) as a starting place. The spoilers there aren’t too revealing if you don’t actually do the story once you’ve made it into the zone.

Ashen.2907:

To be fair, the core game failed some players just as HoT failed some players.

Agreed.

The problem is in equating those two things’ impact. The populations affected are very different quantities.

I think the biggest overall reason HoT failed (as an entity, not how it failed certain players) is that ANet listed to a very vocal minority. And, they looked at their history: GW1 added “hard mode” to accommodate that same demographic.

The problem is that they implemented an entire expansion heavily targeting those players.

As someone earlier said, if Hot had been four zones, but only one of which was really hard, it would have been much better received. Or, if they didn’t have so much XP/mastery gating. Or, if they had provided an adequate set of mapping tools to accommodate the new verticality.

But, ALL of the zones are difficult to navigate, and ALL of the zones were of extreme difficulty just to walk around in them. (Change in tense is intended.)

TexZero.7910:

HoT failed ?

Coulda fooled me with the pre-sales/sales numbers of just the expansion and the ever steady gemstore purchases.

So, the CEO, what, lied?

Further, the failure was precisely because of the presale numbers. Those players spent their money, and expected something. But, they were given something very different from that expectation. They were burned, and that cost the company a great deal of player good will. ANet and NCSoft knew that this would prevent many sales of the second expansion. (Which it has, as is witnessed right here in this thread.)

That’s almost certainly the reason we got a preview. They simply cannot afford another HoT.

STIHL.2489:

Vayne.8563:

VB is not a giant jumping puzzle, you can walk from one end to the other, if you so choose.

I have tried this with no luck, can you show me a guide of how to do this or a video?

I think that’s because mapping VB is very different from simply traversing it. To simply make your way across, I found the best way is to go through the story. Unfortunately, that means collecting enough XP to get a couple of required masteries: bounding mushrooms, gliding, and updrafts.

But, if you really want to just walk across, probably the easiest way is to go north from the entrance until you get near the Batrach Falls PoI. Then, backtrack a bit and take the west-leading road that crosses the river.

Follow the actual trail until you get to the Last Leap PoI (or just past the Brooding Gulch PoI). The road zig-zags there, but your goal is to keep going straight west.

Then you’ll keep going until you get to a dead end that has two bridges, one pointing WSW and the other SSW. Take the SSW one, and keep going roughly SSW into Coztic Grounds. Take the west-leading path, until you get to a gigantic tree that contuse the path west.

Then, keep following the path. It gradually turns SW and then S, until you hit the next zone.

I recommend the story method, though. But, to get the XP for the needed masteries, abandon VB and head to one of the LWS3 zones. Collect the XP there, but not the masteries from LWS3. Instead, take the masteries from HoT. That will make it a LOT easier to get around in HoT.

STIHL.2489:

But, to be honest, I am just not feeling any urgency to invest, still feeling a bit burned by HoT.. so, gonna let this one simmer for a bit.

I feel exactly the same way. I most likely will end up shelling out the money. But, will I keep playing? Not so sure. Mapping is still an abject disaster in vertical zones. And, the new idea of having to identify treasure galls me. I put up with that in GW; it was a blessing and a relief to NOT have to deal with it in GW2.

So, I do recommend buying LWS3. It’s $10, which is cheaper than PoF. And, it will help invest you in the story line, too. (More detail than that would be spoilers.)

If PoF doesn’t include LWS3, that will be money well spent. Only if it’s included will you regret spending it, I think.

And, if you ever want to go back to HoT to test the waters, ring me in-game. There’s still a LOT I need to do there, and trust me, I won’t get mad at you for being casual.

STIHL.2489:

Vayne.8563:

DoctorDing.5890:

Rhanoa.3960:

It was a significant change

Bingo.

Games without significant changes often die faster than games with them The six guys that would still be playing core Tyria if is stayed at that difficulty would be happy as clams. Most of us would have played a lot less, because too easy is as bad as too hard. HoT kept me in the game. And I know for a fact I’m not alone.

This is not true at all. Case in point, EQ didn’t significantly change their game, they merely added to it. In essence, they added levels, which progressed the game, but did do while keeping with the established systems and style of play that the base game was built off of, there were no major system shocks, or massive overhauls on how the game felt from one expansion to the next, the transition from Norrath to Kunark, felt smooth, the Kunark Expansion felt like it belonged in the world of Norrath, making a fitting addition to the game.

Whereas, HoT was an abject change to how the game felt when you played, it didn’t feel like a smooth transition at all.

Ergo, games may need to grow, but they don’t in effect need to overhaul level changes to stay alive, in fact.. subtle small changes are what keep games alive, additions keep games alive.. substantial shocking changes have historically always done more harm then good.

I don’t do this often, but I have to agree with Vayne. Not philosophically, but on the specific issue of “do games have to change or die?”

They really do. They have to give players things to do that aren’t just the same things as they’ve done before.

My disagreement with Vayne is on how MUCH games must change, not whether they have to or not.

Players want new content. And, even casuals like me want new challenges. But, I don’t want overwhelming challenges. Vayne seems to thrive on not just the challenges, but the eventual defeat of those challenges (which s/he does via hard work).

As a casual, my preference is for different challenges, not so much harder challenges.

But, ANet must satisfy both of us, or die. Financially, I think they have to lean more heavily in the casual direction, because that’s where most of their money comes from.

So, I haven’t lobbied to return completely to the original GW2 model. I’m more of a half-way kind of player. Some day … SOME day …, I might want to tangle with those really hard challenges that people like Vayne have asked ANet to implement. So, I agree with Vayne (and others) that some of those challenges need to exist.

Unfortunately for HoT, I think ANet tried to move to hard in that direction, and they did it throughout the HoT game play. It was almost too much for me, and it was too much for you. I mean, if I have to be honest, Draconis Mons has tougher enemies than Verdant Brink.

The difference, and the reason I like it, is that there are a lot fewer of those very difficult fights. And, you can avoid them. Yes, if you want achievement points, you eventually have to tangle with them. But, in HoT, you had to tangle with really hard enemies just getting to the battles that had achievements attached.

There were three areas (in my opinion) where HoT failed: mapping, gating, and difficulty. They eased the gating, and significantly eased difficulty. But, mapping is still a chore and a pain, and there are still too many overlapping difficult places.

LWS3 has overcome those areas, generally. Yes, there’s a very badly mapped Draconis Mons (episode 5). And, there are places where the events and challenges are too hard (IMO), like some areas of Lake Doric and Bloodstone Fen. But, overall, it’s quite good.

If PoF is similar in casualness to LWS3, I’ll like it. A lot. But, if it doesn’t include enough challenges that require peak playing skill, Vayne won’t. And, s/he will be correct.

It’s got to be a balance. The game as a whole needs to have enough variability to accommodate both the majority of casuals AND the majority of hardcores.

Rhanoa.3960:

Has the game really failed? Far from it.

Nobody said it did; well, nobody other than you.

We said Heart of Thorns failed. Which it did.

Rhanoa.3960:

HOT didn’t fail, the Players DID!

This is false. By the statement of the CEO and the financial beating the company took, HoT was a total disaster. There really is no grounds for saying it didn’t fail.

Now, you are correct that the player’s failed. But, not the way you are thinking it. HoT failed BECAUSE the majority of the players failed … to find it enjoyable.

Ashen.2907:

Personally, I think that, especially in an MMO, 15 hours per week is well within the realm of casual.

I agree. I’ve spent over 25 hours a week, but I’m definitely casual. I don’t think hours played is a defining characteristic of casual.

Actually, the definition of the word “casual” seems to be pretty casually-stated.

So, the word “casual” probably isn’t limited to any one definition. It’s probably more of a section of a continuum. Things like:

• Many hours vs. few hours.
• Solo vs. group-centric attitudes.
• Easy play vs. hard play.
• Structured play vs. unstructured.

and probably a lot more. Casuals would tend to be on one side of any summary of those tallies, and hardcores on the other. But, no one thing “defines” either group.

AliamRationem.5172:

You’ve spent much of this thread telling others that they don’t have a voice because they don’t meet your definition of casual. So yes, yes you did.

He never said anything like that.

STIHL.2489:

No, see, unlike some people that puttered around for years crying about the game and how it needed to be harder to suite their playstyle, or fussed endlessly for raids, when the game was no longer to my liking… I left.

What is truly ironic, is that some people would say “if you don’t like it, leave!” and yet they remain and fuss incessantly that the game needs to be change, as opposed to you know, following their own advice and leaving.

<snicker>

Correction:

After trying the regular client, it updated both the 32 and 64 bit tmp files, but it didn’t update the exe file, which is dated way back in May. The 64-bit exe file was updated Friday, so I would think the main GW2.EXE file would be updated if it was used.

That answers all my questions. Thanks!

I actually had two different shortcuts, pointing to the two different clients. The 64-bit one was obsolete with that announcement, but I never saw it. Thank you!

Charrbeque.8729:

Geez. Some people trigger easily.

Yeah. I’m on the edge of a razor with this game. They really blew it with HoT. It won’t take much to sour me, and going back to a horrid mechanic from GW1’s days fits that role very nicely.

I plan on giving them another try by buying PoF. But, if this is in the release, I’ll retract that statement. It’s unacceptable.

Sarpan.9074:

If you have not played through LWS3 how can you be critical of it?

That’s a good point, but perhaps some background can explain it:

When HoT came out, there were at least four kinds of players.

1. Those who loved it.
2. Those who hated it.
3. Those who liked it.
4. Those who didn’t like it.

Of those, the second group fragmented: many quit the game. Many stayed and stuck it out. STIHL was one of those who left.

So, he wasn’t around when LWS3 came out. But, I was, and I remember being apprehensive about it. ANet had admitted that they had made huge blunders with HoT. But, they only corrected some of them. When LWS3 chapter 1 came out, I didn’t play it for a while. Frankly, I was scared it would be more like HoT than the core game, and if it was, I would have left as well.

STIHL is going through that same apprehension now. I understand the feeling very well.

But, that’s why I’ve been posting positive posts about LWS3: because ANet went at least halfway back to the game that attracted us in the first place. I can only hope PoF does the same, but I’m going to give them the benefit of the doubt. They need money to stay in business, and the game overall is still darned good. So, they’ll get my money.

However, they’ll get it somewhat reluctantly. If PoF looks closer to LWS3 than HoT, it will be money well-spent. If the reverse, it will be the beginning of the end for players like STIHL and me.

Edited to add: #2 was by far the biggest group on the forums. But, most of #3 and #4 don’t post, so #2 is probably only a plurality of actual players.

Genesis.5169:

This is the most casual MMO on the market, if it gets anymore casual i wouldn’t be able to discern this game from candy crush saga.

This is not a joke, this is the most casual an mmo gets, death has no penalty, you can undo stats on Ascended, everything progresses you in some way even just mindlessly killing things on the map will some what progress you if you salvage, you can play this entire game single player with no issues. You don’t have to talk to anyone ever if you don’t want to. You can spec anyway you want to no matter how bad your build is in 70% of the game, Seriously there are like a billion things that this game forgives you for that games like ff14 don’t and even ff14 is casual compared to things like tera or skyforge.

To the issues of navigation, the only place i have had some difficulty in navigating was tangled depth, which I am pretty kitten sure that was intended just from the name of the map.

Now for my humble opinion i hope i don’t get an infraction for this but i want to be honest, i really don’t want people like you around in this game i honestly do not believe you guys can be satisfied unless the entire game played for you and you got legendaries just for a login, you guy would remove any mechanics for classes of real consequence. We would see the end of condition damage in pvp invuls and dodges that damage. It wouldn’t end there you people would rampage into Raid and fotm and demand that other players cater to your inadequacies for the sake of your fun, kitten the rest of the people there.

I humbly do not want you people to play this game i humble hope the devs ignore this thread and move on and for that i apologize, might i suggest candy crush saga there no pressure and you can play at your own pace.

You’re right: this game IS designed for casuals.

Which is why the vast majority of its players play it. And, it’s how it created that player base in the first place.

And that’s a GOOD thing.

STIHL.2489:

LS3 is no i instance based like all the previous living world stories?

The “missions” are in some cases instances and in some cases open-world stuff. Much more open-world stuff than core, but I think that’s an improvement.

STIHL.2489:

Good to know things were dialed back for HoT, too little, too late for m I’m afraid , but ,I’m downloading the game now, so I’ll check out the PoF expansion

They actually scaled things back about 6 months after HoT released, but you probably missed that (along with other casuals who just gave up in that first 6 months).

More importantly to the game’s future, though, is that the LWS3 maps/events/metas are much closer to core Tyria in terms of difficulty and ability to play solo.

I remember you from when you used to post. I think you would do yourself a favor if you bought the LWS3 package, especially if you’re wavering about PoF. But, if you’re buying PoF for sure, you may not need to buy LWS3. I don’t know how they’re marketing PoF; it’s possible (though unlikely) that it would include LWS3.

STIHL.2489:

Thank you , this was very informative, and yes , I was not around for Living World, Season 3, and, I highly doubt that I will be getting involved with it, as it’s old content now, which means less active pugs doing it, so I would be required to solo, and to be honest, I love pugging, one of the special and unique joys of an MMO is the Pug, which of course continually reminds me of a the joke from another game I played.

I hated HoT, and only have warmed up to it a little bit. But, LWS3 is actually quite a bit better than HoT was. The maps (except one, Draconis Mons) are much better. You can actually know which level of the map you’re on by looking at the mini-map. Refreshing.

The mobs are also toned down quite a bit.

Finally, the meta events are nothing like HoT metas. No clocks need to be watched, and you can join or leave them pretty much any time.

So, my take is that LWS3 is much better than HoT was. I’m fearful for PoF after the disaster of HoT. But, the individual maps/events/metas in LWS3 are quite good.

STIHL.2489:

Which now begs the question, if we always understood that “casual” was a mindset when talking about any other activity, why do we suddenly get so confused when it gets applied to games?

That’s easy to answer: hardcores didn’t like being grossly outnumbered on the forums and even more-so in-game. So, they artificially broke up the definition of casual so they could argue against specific subsets of casual play. Thus, they “won” the arguments more.

Unfortunately, ANet believed them, and almost destroyed the game trying to cater to them.

But, being crushed in the marketplace caused ANet to reconsider, and they’ve moved back much closer to where they were in the beginning. Except for mapping, and for failing to nerf HoT mobs a little bit more, I think they’ve done well. They can’t go too far in the casual direction, because the game does have many hardcore players. They don’t want to alienate them any more than they did casual players with HoT.

HoT was an appalling disaster for them. They did make some changes to be more casual-friendly. But, there are still major issues outstanding IN HOT, such as way more levels of maps than are actually reflected in the world map view, and trash mobs and individual enemies are still way too difficult.

However, in Living Story Season 3, they have corrected most of those flaws. Only one of the six zones is grossly under-mapped like most of HoT was. And, the enemies are further apart and less instantly killing you, like they were in HoT.

There are still grossly overpowering creatures, but you can mostly avoid them now. (Which makes me wonder why they bothered making them at all. ???)

Personally, the only thing holding me back from pre-ordering is their stubborn refusal to admit that the mini-map simply doesn’t work in those over-leveled maps. I’m probably going to buy PoF, but there’s no way I’ll reward them for refusing to communicate.

Perhaps, but I had to download it to my PC. Did it “update itself” to a non-beta version?

I’ve been using the “beta” 64-bit client for a few years. Is there a non-beta version available yet?

Also, you can actually play through the optional mission choices with other players, but I don’t think you can actually verify that you’ve played through them all. So, to get the achievement, you would have to buy at least 25 extra character slots.

This is the most serious objection I could think of (it might seem like a money-grab by ArenaNet).

Another (minor) objection might be that it is emphasizing the core game, but ANet is focusing on the future, not the past.

Sorry, I wasn’t clear.

What I mean is that one has played through each mission segment, including the “other” one, when there are two (or three) choices available.

For example, in the Asura storyline, Part I, there are three colleges available: Statics, Dynamics and Synergetics. This achievement would require that the account has played through all three college paths.

Additionally, inside each college’s path, there is a split storyline mission. For example, in Statics, you can either choose Unwelcome Visitors or Unscheduled Delay.

So, to get all of the tier one Asura missions, you would need at least 6 different characters (3 colleges times 2 optional choices).

Likewise, each race has 6 paths through tier one.

Each race also has 6 paths through tier two missions, as well, but you can do them all with the same 6 characters.

Finally, there are 5 races, so you would need at least 30 characters to complete them all. (It turns out that all of the later options, including choice of order, can be done with a subset of the same 30 characters.)

I think there should be an achievement for playing through all of the storyline missions on an account.

I agree completely (except, I hate HoT overall). My complaint about masteries, though, is that there aren’t nearly enough mastery points available. If there were other ways of getting to maximum, I would like the system, I think.

Another problem is that XP is tied to raids. You stop gaining XP in all HoT, LS S3, and presumably PoF zones unless you make it all the way through the raid masteries. Most of the jerks moved to raiding once it appeared, and I have no desire whatsoever to play with those people. (There likely ARE non-jerks in raids, though.)

It’s another example of ANet saying, “play it our way, or you’re done progressing.” It leaves a foul taste in my mouth.

I was speaking to the OP, but I didn’t really understand the problem. So, I retract my original post.

Retracted due to errors

Expertise is condition duration, as in how long the condition is applied. Condition damage is the amount of damage conditions do. They’re totally unrelated other than that they both operate on conditions. Viper gear has both, and is one of the most popular gear stats in the game. With viper gear, you get conditions that do more damage AND last longer.

Concentration is a mod to the length of time boons operate. There is no other stat that’s affects this.

So, I really can’t see how your argument has merit at all.

They all had different numbers, but I got four of them as well. However, since it was obviously not intended, I simply reported it as a possible exploit and left them in inventory. I didn’t try to open them.

Good point (although I had to check what BLING-9009 sells to notice that).

Thanks!

Illconceived Was Na.9781:

Which four-stat prefixes are core? They all use jeweled dowels/patches to craft and/or HoT “activators” (e.g. maguuma lily). I’m going off the list on the wiki of 4-stat prefixes.

Ascended rings from Fractals are the only ones I know of for sure.

Illconceived Was Na.9781:

• If it has 4 stats, it’s HoT. See also: 4 stat prefixes.

Not quite, if I recall correctly. There are four-stat core items. However, the point count you get is smaller than the HoT four-stat items.

Hot items have two primary stats and two secondary stats, and they have more total points than either three- or four-item core gear. Core four-item stats merely move some points from one of the other stats into a fourth stat, but the total number of points is the same as three-item gear.

I see your pain, but I think they need more structure. Some players like the extra challenge. While I don’t, I think they should be accommodated.

My suggestion would be to have more HPs, but not all 10 points each. Have some 1-pointers, some 3s, some 5s, etc. Base the reward on the difficulty. Some hard to fight through, some hard to get to, just like in core.

They also need to add some to the Living Story Season 3 maps.

Rauderi.8706:

After the clusterbomb that was Tangled Depths, I have desperately wanted custom mapping tools. I’ll be fine if I’m the one that has to mark “updraft here” or “start of vista path” with little symbols and arrows and dotted lines, but please make this part of the GW2 interface. I’m severely uncomfortable with the idea that the only way I can get such a useful tool is through modhacks which might get me banned.

GREAT ideas (except for getting banned)!

ANYTHING to make it easier to find your way around would be an improvement.

Donari.5237:

I’m just glad we have a minimap at all, one on which I can easily see which direction I’m facing and spot gathering nodes around me. ESO doesn’t provide one; worse, it spins you 180 degrees when you consult your map, then spins you back when you close it, causing frequent moves in the wrong direction. I had to get a mod to get a mini map and even the lowest footprint one causes glitches.

Do you have a sample of how a tiered minimap would look, one that would better aid you in navigation while fitting the GW2 UI aesthetic? I cannot picture it in my mind without imagining a confusing multicolored line drawing. Each time I see a thread on it I hope someone links to a video of one in action.

Three ways they could fix it:

First, they could have every “level” that’s on the map correspond to a “tier” on the world map. When I’m walking in Savage Rise, and I’m exactly where Kodama should be, s/he is not. S/he is just below me. If I go to the main map, there are only three tiers, despite there being between five and seven actual map levels there (depends on how you count them).

Second, they could double/triple/quadruple the up/down arrows to signify a greater depth up or down. Or, they could increase the size or even brightness (perhaps) of those arrows.

Third, they could implement the green “pathing” arrows that exist in storyline missions in cities. The AI figures out how to get somewhere and shows you the direction you should travel. NOTE: This one should only work once you’ve already been to where you are going, or after a certain time interval has passed while searching for it.

I like the pricing, but unless they admit the mapping problem, I won’t be buying.

starlinvf.1358:

In fact, a lot of things that drove HOT’s design is based on what people liked or didn’t like from Fractal level design. More focused encounters, more variation in mob skills, enemy team compositions, a desire to see CC skills being more impactful to game play, environmental hazards, bundle tools that actually assist/help players during events, a better use of space, less dead zones, coherent map design, and fights that don’t simply boil down to standing there and spamming 1.

While most of what you’ve said is correct, they overdid it (and later admitted their mistakes and corrected some of the worst ones).

But, “coherent map design” never occurred. The verticality isn’t the problem. The problem is that navigation of those verticality areas is very bad. VERY bad.

Now, they tried one thing to correct this: adding the up/down blue/green arrows. This was a great start, but not a complete fix. You can still stand in places in Tangled Depths or Draconis Mons, where you are exactly at the North/East/South/West location of a target — but you still can’t find it, because it’s above or below you, and there’s no way to get there from where you are.

I mean, seriously, find Kodama if you’ve never been there. Even with a picture of the map, you can’t get there without knowing how. Why isn’t his/her level a level? S/he is almost underneath the waypoint, but you would never know that without researching it on the Internet. And, even then, you need a video of someone else finding it to succeed, because s/he is not “just” underneath; s/he is two “levels” underneath. Except, they aren’t levels; they’re just … I’m not sure what to call them.

Make them levels of their own. Does it really cost that much to draw two more maps?

Maybe it really does cost too much. If so, why not show the green pathing arrows you get when you’re in a town for one of the core storyline missions?

Or, even show a phantom (see-through) image, along with multi-level arrows showing up or down. (Multi-level arrowing means some way of telling how FAR up or down you need to go. Like is currently done for POIs and waypoints and their up/down arrows.)