Guild Wars 2

NevirSayDie.6235:

JohnDied.3476:

If you take grenades you get one of the best chills in the game, go bomb kit and you get an immobilize and cripple. Both kits offer great damage, combos and utility. Add in any elixir for stun-break (I usually R for dungeon runs) and we have a few different ways of disengaging (and crowd controlling considering all of those CCs were AoE). The only place we could have problems disengaging is in PvP and we all recognize that the engineer is a little weak there at the moment.

^ sound advice there. I don’t think it’s too healthy to “count” the number of a certain type of ability across professions—it’s just not an accurate reflection of potential. I self-combo constantly on the engineer, with 3 finishers (5 if you count rifle autoattack’s 20% and elite) and 3 fields. Thanks also for clarifying the aspect of the game we’re discussing, as dungeon builds are and should be VASTLY different from tournament builds.

Also, just for clarification, the grenade kit has no combo fields or finishers—trying to keep it accurate here. Seems a previous poster, who shall remain nameless, thought we had an ice field. That would be incorrect.

Grenade kit has a Poison field =D
Also, our only ice field is in fact, Mortar’s ability…

Also, I only put up the data to refute some claims that our wide access to fields and finishers stem mostly from our utilities, of which we can only carry 3. Going into detail may have been overkill =D

coglin.1496:

Maketso.5602:

Or that our Bombs have the only reliable fire/smoke field? Who uses a bomb kit these days? Never see it.

Alot of engineers I see, and I see them used all over in WvW. Do you have any actual logical to support what your getting at here?

Skilled groups thrive on using combos, so I guess the answer to who uses bombs for combo fields could be skilled players.

We have the least amount of reliable combo fields in the game,

Mmmkkaaayy.

Ice field, shows up 100% of the time I cast the ability to create it.

Fire field shows up 100% of the time I drop fire bomb

Light field shows up 100% of the time I drop super elixir

poison fields pops 100% of the time that I drop poison grenade

Smoke field shows ip 100% of the time I drop smoke bomb

Water field shows up 100% of the time that I pop healing turret

That is 6 fields that we get 100% of the time we use the skill that causes them. One and only one has a 33% chance to occur and that is not among the 6 previously mentioned.

Thieves get 5
Mesmers get 2
Necros get 4
Warriors get 1
Rangers get 5
Guardians get 2
Elementalist get 5

We also have access to all finishers. The most blast finisher, and second most projectile finishers. So please stop trying to pretend we are weak in the combo area when we are clearly one of the best professions at utilizing combos.

Perhaps you should invest some time learning about the professions comb fields and finishers before you attempt to tell us how they work

BOB: 30s, Blast. Toolbelt@Bomb kit.
Throw Mine/Detonate: 18s, Blast. Utility.

Heal Detonation: 20seconds.
Net Detonation: 30s.
Rifle: 20s
Rocket: 60s
Thumper: 50s

Magnetic Inversion. 30s, Shield Weapon skill.
Rocket Boots. 30s Utility.
Supply Crate. 180s Elite.

7 landbound Projectile finishers, 4 of which are 100%

Battering Ram: 25s
Surprise Shot: 10s
Throw Wrench: 20s
Throw Shield: 40s

20%s
Explosive Shot
Hip Shot
Tranquilizer Dart

Vs…

Warrior: 13 Projectile Finishers: 10 100% Projectiles (Land), with 3 20%

Aimed Shot: 10s Rifle
BladeTrail: 15s Greatsword
Brutal Shot: 15s Rifle
Impale: 20s Sword (OH)
Kill Shot: 10s Rifle (Burst)
Pin Down: 25s Longbow
Throw Axe: 10s Axe
Throw Bolas: 20s Utility
Throw Boulder: ~180s Elite
Tremor: 25s Mace (OH)

20%s
Bleeding Shot: Rifle
Dual Shot: Longbow
Volley: Rifle, 10s

Oh wait. Second most.

Ranger: 8 100% Projectile finishers (land)
Concussion Shot: 25s Shortbow
Crippling Shot: 12s Shortbow
Crippling Talon: 18s Dagger (OH)
Crippling Throw: 20s Greatsword
Hunter’s Shot: 12s Longbow
Path of Scars: 15s Axe (OH)
Point Blank Shot: 15s Longbow
Quick Shot: 9s Shortbow

20%s
Crossfire: Shortbow
Long Range Shot: Longbow
Rapid Fire: 10s Longbow
Richochet: Axe
Splitblade: 6s Axe

Well, a bronze medal would be fine, but we don’t have it.

Thief: 7 100% projectiles, 4 20% projectiles.
Black Powder: 6 Init Pistol (OH) <—- Combo field AND finisher.
Body Shot: 3 Init Pistol
Dancing Dagger: 4 Init Dagger (OH)
Headshot: 4 init Pistol (OH)
Shadow Shot: 4 Init Dagger/Pistol (Dual)
Scorpion Wire: 30s Utility
Sneak Attack: Pistol (Stealth)

20%:
Repeater: 5 Init Pistol/Nothing (Dual)
Trick Shot: Shortbow
Unload: 5 Init Pistol/Pistol (Dual)
Vital Shot: Pistol

Hrm.

At least the Mesmer and Elementalist classes have a worse time accessing Projectile finishers, right?

Elementalist:
Stoning: 100% Combo finisher .75s Staff (Earth)

Mesmer:
Mirror Blade: 100% Combo finisher: 8s Greatsword

Also, as a footnote: Water field is “up” for about 20% of the duration, and is pretty unreliable. Also, the only ice field we get comes from Mortar, but that’s quite unreliable due to Mortar’s minimum range and missile speed. 10s duration is nice, but the other ice fields seem to do better.

coglin.1496:

Ayestes.1273:

• Formula 409 should create a splash heal (1000 – 1600) on thrown elixirs.

I completely disagree. This trait is really powerful by being such a solid condition removal. A splash heal on top of that is way OP.

Doesn’t a traited “Shake it Off” do that already? minus the range…

There’s another one with an Elementalist btw…

Engineers are Overpowered and deserving of nerfs.

Said no-one ever

try sitting in the fire to the West side of the Lobby of the Mists.

It’ll burn you at a relatively controlled rate, so you can see the green numbered goodness that is your healing turret regen.

Nightpath.7415:

Now I just log out
weep deeply into pillow
then write a haiku

FTFY

So if engineers are a Mcdonald’s burger…

Warriors: Kobe marbled beef steaks to our ground beef patty
Thieves: French artisan pastries to our bun
Necromancers: English Farmhouse Cheese to our Kraft Singles
Guardians: Greek Salad to our wilted lettuce
Rangers: Honey Dijon Mustard
Mesmers: Italian pasta to our Ketchup
Elementalists: a Five guys burger to our McDonalds burger

(Not the best of analogies, but I think this gets the point across)

Bomb healing is 146 base with a .1 scaling.

They have a .5s cast time, as well as a .5s fuse, making them around 1/second.

With quickness, that’s only around 4 bombs every 3 seconds. (Fuse timer is unaffected)

This means that Ele Water staff 1 is still superior.

Oxstar.7643:

And since it has been requested, here are the healing numbers from elixir gun, completely without healing power and augumented only by ten points into tools for kit refinement.
403 impact heal
148 second tick
138 second tick healing mist
As for bombs, I’m sorry, but it’s IMPOSSIBLE to deduce base heal since you need 30 points into tools (300+ healing power) to make them heal you.
It might help to know though that I get 458 healing power from my gear, 179 from my rifle, then 445 from my accessories. That’s 1082 then 300 from traits. 1382.

As for toughness that’s 224 from gear, 128 from rifle, and 316 from accessories. And 300 from trait. That’s 668.

Well, that should cover up all my healing stats. Have fun.

We don’t get stats from weapons while using the Elixir gun kit, by the way.

Grand total for the Super Elixir is 1203.

Also, it’s not entirely impossible to deduce base heal for the elixir bombs:

Figure out how much Healing power you get without armor, then put the armor on and figure out how much the bombs heal you with the armor.

It should be a linear scaling, so you should GENERALLY be able to figure out the rate of the scaling as well as its base.

the fact that the same class can still swing in that same confined space for 2k+ per swing kinda negates that healing.

Also: a listing for the group heals for the other classes:

Water Blast:Ele staff 1
370+.1 scaling:
470 HP AOE heals at range every 1.3 seconds.

Geyser: Ele staff 3
808 base +.25 scaling with 3 second duration: (3 ticks)
3204 HP over 3 seconds.

Cleansing wave: Ele Dagger 5
1302 base + 1 scaling
2342 HP burst heal with 40s cd AND/OR after dodge (if traited) with a 10s cd

Vigorous shouts: Warrior Trait:
40+((Level^2) x 0.18) + (Healing x 0.8)
1984 burst per shout. (Shout with lowest untraited cooldown is 25s, 20s if traited)

Shadow Refuge: Thief Utility:
355+.18 scaling over 5 ticks
2711 HP over 4 seconds.

Now…

’’SuperBroken’’ elixir:
380+.2 scaling over 10 seconds:
5880 HP over 10 seconds.

Sure, Super Elixir LOOKS good over 10 seconds, but…
A: you’re restricted to one area for 10 seconds
B: this kind of healing is still only in line with the other classes’ healing per second at that level.
C: Other classes get weapon stats with their weapons

“That’s 11060 hp over 10 secs.”

And then the GS warrior pushes the “Hundred Blades” button, and then you lose it all again in a short amount of time.

Maullus.1273:

Pannonica.5378:

Basically, this is how we end up, instead of being awesome:

That is a dog with safety goggles pouring some substance out of an Erlenmeyer flask into a coffee mug.

If you looked up either Awesome or Super-Science in the dictionary, you would see that picture.

snip

not sure if sarcastic…

that picture is the “I have no idea what I’m doing” meme.

Elixir U is your friend there…

Only on a 60 second cooldown!
Works 2 times out of 3!

I’d like to ask Anet:

Why are the charr toy mortars way more durable than our turrets?

SoulstitchMMO.1396:

Travail.7390:

SoulstitchMMO.1396:

Near 100% uptime on a light field… Seems pretty amazing to me.

If light field removed conditions on blast and leap attacks, it would be alright. Retaliation isn’t a particularly great boon anymore, especially in PvE where mobs hit relatively slowly. Unless you’re running with classes who are shooting ranged projectiles, IMO light fields aren’t that great.

Now, if this was a water field, it would be great as-is.

-Travail.

100% uptime on condition removal is pretty much amazing.

Sure, but:

A: We don’t have any whirl finishers
B: Of the projectile finishers we have: Throw Wrench, Surprise Shot, Personal Battering Ram, Throw Shield. The others are 20% autoattacks on the rifle, pistol and elixir gun.
C: Fumigate is in the same kit.

It’s not quite 100% on condition removal, it’s near 100% for usage of light fields, which…

Guardians get pretty effortlessly. (nearly 1 field on any weapon they choose, can create one when downed, etc.).
The prime example is Greatsword 4, into Greatsword 5, into Greatsword 2. Dealing their damage combo and sending out two rounds of cleansing bolts nearly simultaneously.

I’m quite for the idea of changing the field type…

but they should fix Fumigate to self-cure conditions.

Townopolis.3607:

This thread needs more numbers.

Regeneration: 130 base heal/second w/ .125 coefficient.
Super Elixir: 140 base heal/second w/ .1 coefficient + 380 base impact heal w/ .2 coefficient.

@1,040 healing (full healing gear, jewelry, & runes, plus 200 from traits—does not include weapon stats for the obvious reason)…

Regeneration: 260/sec
Super Elixir: 244/sec + 588 impact heal

… over 10 seconds…

Regeneration: 2600 healed
Super Elixir: 3028 healed (assuming subject(s) stayed in the zone the WHOLE time)

The fact that SE is a zone people have to stay in to receive the heal is the biggest issue with the ability. On the other hand, it does open up some (comparatively minor) benefit in that allies can enter the zone after the fact to receive (some) healing. Possibly more importantly, there are some situations where movement is either already restricted (bunker) or the need to move is more predictable (dungeons).

I think SE remains approximately as viable for group healing as the ability to provide group regeneration. With Kit Refinement, SE is comparable (not too unfavorably) to permanent group regeneration. It has the drawback of being a zone, but the benefit of stacking with both regeneration applied by others (if that happens) and itself (if that happens). It is also about as good for burst healing as regeneration, which is to say not very.

I still like it, and remember that it’s only 1 of 6 abilities granted by taking the EG; it isn’t entirely reasonable to expect one ability to carry the whole kit.

Lets get some more numbers in here then. Similar group heals, using that 1040 number: (not a comprehensive list)

Water Blast:Ele staff 1
370+.1 scaling:
470 HP AOE heals at range every 1.3 seconds.

Geyser: Ele staff 3
808 base +.25 scaling with 3 second duration: (3 ticks)
3204 HP over 3 seconds.

Cleansing wave: Ele Dagger 5
1302 base + 1 scaling
2342 HP burst heal with 40s cd AND/OR after dodge (if traited) with a 10s cd

Vigorous shouts: Warrior Trait:
40+((Level^2) x 0.18) + (Healing x 0.8)
1984 burst per shout. (Shout with lowest untraited cooldown is 25s, 20s if traited)

Shadow Refuge: Thief Utility:
355+.18 scaling over 5 ticks
2711 HP over 4 seconds.

Now…

’’SuperBroken’’ elixir:
380+.2 scaling over 10 seconds:
5880 HP over 10 seconds.

Sure, Super Elixir LOOKS good over 10 seconds, but…
A: you’re restricted to one area for 10 seconds
B: this kind of healing is still only in line with the other classes’ healing per second at that level.
C: Other classes get weapon stats with their weapons

Again, these are group heals.

Engineers: Med kit. No Cooldown.

I wish we got fixes

1. Dart: good offensive and defensive AA
2. Elixir F: very good for kiting…
3. Fumigate: AoE condition cleansing, stacking conditions does nothing
4. Acid bomb: strong Area denial, scales well with Power, excellent escape
5. Super Elixir: Strong ranged heal, condition cleansing AND a light field.

ToolBelt: 0-frame regeneration on a decently low cooldown
Trait: Super Elixir: see above

Not entirely sure what you mean by the elixir gun needing more usefulness…

so… they didn’t even do that part right? >_>

Using that button in midair cuts your Acid jump short too

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fcQQFAUlIq6ZH5y3F1LJxIFfW0hPUYRFq8XGyNtA;TwAZUCukQp6SxFFYGwEgZBzBmEshAA

Melee-oriented two-kit build.

It is designed to punish overextension by either pulling and snaring a single enemy, and keeping them locked down by applying a multitude of conditions, or to initiate and snare a group of enemies while being able to absorb damage.

The traits are to attempt to increase both offensive and defense by reducing overall cooldowns and increasing the amount of activated protection.

Ranged snaring

Rifle 2 <— Decent immobilize on a low cooldown
Supply Kit <—- High-cooldown knockdown, with subsequent immobilizes
Tool 5 <—- Low-cooldown PULL
Tool Belt <—- Ranged cripple

Melee Snares
Toolbelt Swap <—- Caltrops with Bleed and Cripple
Tool 2 <—- Caltrops with Bleed and cripple
Bomb 5 <—- Immobilize and Cripple
Rifle 5 <—- Unsafe Initiation

Melee Damage options:
Tool 1
Tool 3 <—- 3 stacks of confusion and decent damage
Bombs <—- take your pick
Boots Toolbelt <—- High-damage, long-lasting burn (why Superior Rune of the Forge is being used in the armor)

Escapes:
Rifle 4 <—- Launch both self and opponent in case of bad engages
Rifle 5 <—- Targeted Leap for positioning
Tool 4 <—- Block all incoming damage for 2 seconds
Rocket Boots <—- Blast-type escape
Bomb 4 + Blast

Pros
- Can initiate and engage multiple ways
- Can snare nearly indefinitely through immobilizes and cripples
- Nearly 50% uptime on confuse application
- Force splits
- Decent AoE and Single-target capabilities
- Multiple burst heals

Cons
- No forms of CC, confusion will wreck the build
- Cannot sustain burst
- Lackluster ranged options (no real poke)
- No reliable forms of protection
- Nearly useless in WvWvW (Effective range of 600 is quite dangerous)

Any Thoughts/comments?

@Venoma,

What about the fact that mines didn’t do blast finishers anymore, even though it noted it on the tooltip?

As for bugginess, I’d have to say that our comprehensive lists placed side by side are much longer than the other classes (Save probably necromancer)

Engineers simply have not received much attention throughout all the patches, results wise.

I thought people usually took the turret for the 15s medium heal, or 20s burst heal, or 60s condition removal, or water fields… Regeneration is kind of the icing on the cake.