Sonofakitten. Super elixir Still does have a 20s cooldown on Kit Refinement.
Please explain how confusion is one of the weakest conditions in the game?
Do you remember the time Toolkit wasn’t on anybody’s radar? If you don’t, I do. The buff for the kit is not even that great, confusion is one of the weakest conditions in the game and only really affects Thieves and Rangers who like to spam 1 all the time. Also if you think FT and EG were only good for gimmick builds, you’ll be surprised how close to OP they’ve come with what they’ve done with this combo.
It’s a buff to individual kits.
It’s the combinations that have been nerfed.
Lets see… Our 4 kit refinement traits
Cleansing Fire (Already 10 seconds)
Super Elixir (20 seconds to 10 seconds)
Melee Grenade Barrage (20 seconds to 10 seconds)
Box of Nails (10 seconds)
Now lets say we connect with all of them for damage or something.
Box of Nails → Cripple + Bleed
Cleansing Fire → Purge 1 condition and some burning
Barrage → Damage
This is overpowered how?
I’m… really quite happy about the buffs all around regarding Kits.
Slightly less happy about Kit Refinement though, with mixed feelings.
Yes, even though you can jump, you still only get 1 condition cleanse per cooldown, as opposed to the double from having both FT and EG. (Even though they used to have a cooldown of 10 seconds and 20 seconds respectively)
On the plus side, doubling the amount of melee-range grenade barrages and super elixirs are made of win.
Flame Blast is slightly nicer, but that addition to Air blast doesn’t really do anything, considering that the kit STILL doesn’t deal that much burning alone.
Acid bomb… That’s a really really really powerful buff and <3 Anet for it. Makes really good combos even better.
personally, I think that simply changing the targeting would change its function.
What the grenade kit should be is a very very good area denial tool. If they want to pass the area we are carpet bombing, we are tolling them, in the use of a blocking skill, utility, gapcloser, endurance, or HP. That’s its current incarnation.
IF we set it to autotarget players, then it’s just a slower, longer-range version of the pistol auto attack.
Yes there is.
If you go 0/30/0/30/10 It should give you absolutely everything you need, essentially a Transforming Engie.
Of course, this locks you out of the Explosives line, but what you have access to:
All 3:
30% Boon Duration
300 Precision
300 HP
300 Cond Dmg
Anyways:
Tanky:
You’re probably going to have to go with Elixir Gun and Flamethrower, using
Any (Infused Precision to “stick” to a target?), Fireforged Trigger, Juggernaut
Self-regulating Defenses, Any (CF409 or Backpack regenerator), Automated Response
Kit Refinement
between decently tanky armor and your kit skills, you should have enough active and passive defenses (3 and 5 on flamethrower, 1, 4 and 5 on Elixir gun, + whatever the kitten you have for stunbreak and weaponry)
Supporty:
There’s quite a few ways to do party support with Engineer, either through CCing, snares and the like, or stacking snaring conditions like cripple, immobilize, blinds and vulnerability.
Vulnerability/Immobilize:
Rifle, using Elixir Gun and Net Turret
Sitting Duck, Precise Sights/Hair Trigger/Go for the Eyes (pick any)
Self-regulating Defenses, CF409, HGH
Kit Refinement
You end up with easy access to lots of vulnerability, can add some Might to yourself and the party, while dealing a respectable amount of damage overall AND clear lots of conditions. You can play more aggressively with using the Utility goggles (10 more vulnerability and fury, for more on-crit procs) and choosing other things from the Alchemy line, or more defensively with more elixirs.
Alternatively, you can go a completely different path via cripple and chill effects with condition duration and on-crit procs. (Of which we have many)
DPS:
Pots and Pistols.
This topic’s been covered too much, but with a core of 30 firearms and 30 alchemy AND access to kit refinement, I don’t really have to go into too much detail.
Now, this is all just some theorycraft. I haven’t found out the armor pieces and I need to make this work with the minimum amount of bagspace, (I probably need to have Divinity-style accessories, and change the armor around), and I haven’t been able to wean myself off the explosives line yet (Mainly doing WvWvW and dungeons), but I like to believe that my reasoning is sound. If someone wants to knock over my proverbial house of cards, I will definitely invite them to.
I won’t make any claims of massive fractals or pvp ranks on my engie because that would be a flat out lie… but for those with that experiance I ask one thing:
Is there a trait set up that, without a respec (IE: only changing majors, gear, and abilities) can go from tanky, to support, to dps like most all other classes can? I’m not asking for top of the line in all three, but it should be able to do the job at least average.
I’ve tried making builds that can be swapped out to do all three and I’m usually only able to pick two and utterly fail at the third. So I would really love some advice from the pros. I know we can make some amazing builds, but since they nearly all require a total respec it makes them nearly pointless for when you are not sitting in LA/Mists.
(edited by Daigle.8497)
The problem I find in WvW is that Mortar suffers both from lack of range and requirement for LoS. In effect, as a defender on a wall, I only practically get a little band around the wall, offset by a little bit.
The toolkit magnet is great in a ZvZ situation, but the mesmer’s version, Temporal Curtain, and the Thief’s, Scorpion wire, equally as buggy, is SO much better during sieges, and have a much better chance of pulling people off walls.
No matter what loadout we get, in addition to our low damage, only 4 out of 5 of our weapon skills will deal damage. INCLUDING kits. (Except Grenade kit. Grenade kit 3 deals 33 damage, which is hilariously lower damage than an autoattack.)
Coupled with lower damage coefficients… yeah… I think I see a problem.
Don’t listen to anyone who’s equipped with Daggers or a Greatsword, and play Engi.
Isn’t that… literally every other class?
Dagger:
Ranger
Thief
Elementalist
Necromancer
Greatsword:
Ranger
Warrior
Guardian
Mesmer
unless the RNG elements are overpowered to compensate for their lack of reliability, there is absolutely NO benefit to RNG skills. As it stands, anet thinks our RNG skills need to be underpowered to compensate for their ‘variety’
I agree with that. I would have though the random chance would have actually meant we would get a stronger version of the skill. They got some of it right though, like elixir x actually lasts longer than the ele/warrior counterparts.
Stronger version, or lower cooldowns would have been nicer.
With Elixir U, it’s almost neither.
I’m pretty sure that if I shoot something with 1.5s worth of poison and again in one second, there would be 3 ticks worth of poison total..
And doesn’t FT hit 10 times in that 2.5 seconds? There’d be 8 seconds residual.
I would be fine if they buffed it so it hits half as often, twice as hard, and burning on each tick. (Possibly 1 second?)
That way, if they are smart, they are only scorched for a mere second, and if they are not, they are only burning for 2-3 seconds after, instead of the current kitten that is
Burning for 1 second if they sit in our flamethrower for 2.5 seconds, which gets negated entirely if they wear 2 melandru runes or something.
Currently as it stands, we only get 1 second of burning for 2.5 seconds of attacking. Assuming the last tick hits.
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Flamestrike
Which is much weaker than this one for the same amount.
Although…
If they stand in the full flame jet, we pile on 10 seconds worth of burning in one go, which is much more threatening. (If they don’t move for 2.5 seconds)
I know of a decently easy fix that will make engies more popular in WvWvW
Allow them to carry double supply and/or repair siege weapons with the toolkit =D
This sounds fun, Invite please =D
Might I suggest instead of Static Discharge, you run Kit Refinement, due to your relatively long cooldowns on toolbelt skills?
You get more condition removal due to having the Elixir gun (double healing light fields) that way.
Also, the elixir gun isn’t bad offensively at all.
With power, the damage of Acid bomb scales quite well, especially if you can land some CC or immobilizes for 3 ticks or more (Glue shot, Glue bomb and Elixir F). Its cooldown is relatively fast, 15 seconds untraited, and Elixir F isn’t too bad for damage on its own.
Three sources of Fury.
Goggles do something here.
I’d like to clarify this – Bandage Self is 15 seconds, and Healing Turret is 14 seconds. I know 20 * 0.7 = 14, but, look at Anet, not me, as to why it doesn’t work right. I still prefer medkit, but that’s because the fury/swiftness puts it a good bit ahead imho. It’s one of two sources of fury for the engineer (please don’t count elixir B and toss elixir B as two), and it’s just one part of many for the engineer. I also prefer medkit in sPvP if I’m running points in tools – after a tough fight on a point, it’s a great idea to just start making one spot loaded with antidotes and medpacks for you to remember if a tough fight breaks out on that point. However, with an HGH / 409 / Elixir CDR setup, I’d probably consider the healing elixir over either. But, as Killy stated, with no traits, it’s pretty hard to beat smart usage of the medturret – making it explode is also a decent stunbreaker if you choose to leave it up (camp beside it, OH NOES BULL RUSH HUNDRED BL-boom, get wrecked!).
wow.
It’s nearly 3 seconds to activate all the portions of the heal for the medkit.
.5 each, 1 second for toolbelt, and .25s for the kit swap.
On the plus side, it’s nice to split up and can be activated individually without fear of interrupts
I personally love the Healing turret, and find it harder to use the others anymore.
14 seconds of regen on drop, plus initial AoE burst heal, and the Water combo field for extra AoE Healing.
In addition, you can “cook” the turret for extra regen (over a minute’s worth fairly easily), then pick it back up when/if you need it.
The numbers aren’t that bad on single-target, but remember, it’s also AoE heals. If a second ally comes into the mix, its healing effect is much greater compared to the bandages.
Its overcharge, although slightly unreliable, can also cleanse conditions readily.
In addition, although nobody does this: use the healing turret as a close-range interrupt, push, or insurance against melee-type AoE skills if traited.
It also has a .5s cast time vs 1 second compared to the others…
With the amount of on-crit procs (albeit with cooldowns) that our traitline has, would it be possible to have a hybrid rifle build of some sort? It’s not quite condition damage or anything, but rifles with Sitting Duck can stack vulnerability really quickly fairly quickly.
For example, in this build:
http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fcQQFAUlspyVnuy2F1LJxoCcG0D7C48KSxjp8nCsF;TkAg1CnoUyUkoIbNOlk1MSA
there’s 3 sources of Immobilize, each of them coming with 5 stacks of Vulnerability, including the toolbelt for Utility Goggles, which serve triple duty in this build. (Stunbreaker, Fury source, and Vulnerability source).
Can the Rifle be used for conditions effectively, or should I just go back to the drawing board and look at the pistol?
Asurans have a mech suit as an ELite.
More like a mobile coffin atm =/
Well to be fair…All mechs from any anime/game are mobile coffins. Get shot in any of them and they all blow up hard. Just look at gundam :P
That’s quite true, but one actually earned that nickname, and this one kinda comes close
Asurans have a mech suit as an ELite.
More like a mobile coffin atm =/
I was just wondering:
What kind of armor does everyone like to run?
I know the effectiveness depends on builds and such, but I’m semi-interested in what everyone else seems to be running. (As I don’t want to jump into investing into a 3rd set just yet due to lack of invisible inventory space)
Currently, I am regretting my investments in Cleric’s and Explorer’s armor, as well as 2/3rds of a Triforge.
so… Confusion sources:
Pistol 3
Tool 3
Bomb 3
Pain Inverter
That’s not bad, 3 of them are accessible to non-asura races, and they’re on decently solid kits.
A single wrench, business end at 2 o’clock, with a distinctly octagonal and angular pipe wrench look.
If the devs are busy, I can whip ’em up an EPS in illustrator right chicken louis.
almost like Builder’s League United?
=D
Excellent playing, and an excellent video. I might have to look into elixirs again, now that I’ve seen them being utilized very well.
I do have a random suggestion though. It’s probably because I don’t understand your build and playstyle entirely too well, but… Even though you’re milking the Coated bullets for all they’re worth, what if you trade…
Elixir C, cloaking device, Coated bullets
for
Flamethrower kit, Kit Refinement, Juggernaut?
You can build decent stacks of might without using any cooldowns, (while you wait for pistol cooldowns, running, and whatnot) and Kit refinement can help purge conditions.
Doesn’t that mean attempts to stack Might would be best?
oh god.
If they implement HALF of what those warriors in that thread want, I’m quitting GW entirely.
I’m still not sure why this skill is strictly worse than Scorpion wire though…
you also can’t see them if they’re facing you.
You will see them a lot if they run away though!
guys, calm down.
Anet can only work on 1 thing nobody plays at a time.
(I kid, I kid. Hoping to see what the revamped/fixed PvP brings! =D)
Everyone roots for the underdog, but nobody bets on him.
Alternatively, go whole hog. Leave the toolbelt, and swap 4 weapons slots for 4 more utility slots. (Or a 2-slot Weapon kit).
lot of that sounds extremely OP and unreasonable. Alot of it we already have and even though every time you compare us in a generalization to warriors, rangers, thief’s, and make illogical comparisons to professions in other games, we explain to you that we have them.
You ask to be faster from gadgets. We have a gadget designed for that, called super speed. It is great for for running down enemies or escaping them.
It’s not like he’s asking for them at the same time. How unreasonable is it to ask to be put at the same level of the other classes in the same game?
Is it unreasonable to draw on parallels from other games in the same genre?
Sure, we’ve got Super speed. 5 second 133% movement speed increase with a (traitable) recharge time of 45 seconds. That’s cool, for 5 seconds, when a lot of the other professions’ instant-gap closers have either:
A shorter Recharge
INSTANT gap close
Larger effect
Not to mention that immobilizes and snares still affect you while using the speed boost.
Now on nades:
I don’t want Ground-targeting to change. Being able to direct exactly how your grenades land and leading your targets, or to create an area of denial is invaluable.
A channeled effect is definitely welcome, as an “autoattack”, especially if we can move while channeling, interrupt it with another cast, or even drag the targeting reticle around.
I just remembered hearing about using EADG over WASD
There’s more room to “weave” buttons between your movement keys there…
Thoughts?
listens in, has Logitech G600 and using Default Keybinds
I have 5-10 and F1-F4 on my mouse.
G9-> Healing skill
G10 -> 7 slot
G11 -> Elite (it’s the easiest button to access)
G12-G13 -> 8 and 9 Utility
G15-16 -> F1 and F2
G18-19 -> F3 and F4
and… Mouse 3 is dodge.
Well as long as the toolbelt skill on Kits are appropriatlely powerful to compensate for the lost Utility I think the Kits are fine.
Grenade- Barrage, I think most would argue while not very utility it still packs enough of a punch to be considered “good”, if not better.
Bomb- Big Ole, yeah I dont think anyone ever has complained about the usefulness of this bad boy.
Tools- Wrench, Tossing this sucker does decent damage, but could probably get the cripple without a trait to bring it more in line.
Elixer- Regen, kinda weak for a utility, maybe if it was a shorter cooldown.Flamethrower- Ammo, yeah this is garbage.
So not bad really.
Take a good look at our gadgets and potions. Most of these by themselves fulfill the function of a utility slot quite well, so their toolbelt counterparts should be somewhat weak, but not all of them are.
Turrets. Well, most of the Toolbelt skills are garbage, but I guess its cause they can all be blast finishers too? Ever seen the healing 3 turrets exploding in a water field can do?
Think of it this way…
If you took gadgets and potions… would you look at your toolbelt skills and go “That is definitely better weapon swapping and a class mechanic!”?
med kit, grenade kit, elixer R, net turret.
perma swiftness, end recharge, stun break, dmg, control, revive, mobility, and more.
and thats just one combination with 2 weapons, 5 utilities, and a (granted, situational) pet. …
I’m just saying if our entire class mechanic revolves around our utility skills in general… it shouldn’t hurt to ask for any 3 of these things.
A. more Utility slots
B. more Choice of freedom over Toolbelt skills
C. Toolbelt skills that don’t have obscenely long cooldowns or useful effects.
Could have fun and do like a 4-turret combo
Healing <—- Water Field
Rifle <- — Generically low cd turret
Net <-- Immobilize
Flame <— Smoke Field
Elite Supplies <—- Blast Finisher
If they ever fixed turrets properly, this might be kind of fun.
On a 40 second cooldown, you can drop the turrets in this order:
Rifle→Net→Flame→Healing, then explode them all at once. If you wanted stealth, you’d overcharge the Healing and Flame turrets, then explode them all. (overcharging Healing turret will make sure you don’t get a water field in the next pulse)
Unfortunately, this means the combo is also ~ 2 seconds worth of setup time.
Will this setup be any good? Doubtful.
no we didnt. we get 5 “weaponized” kit skills and an F “utility equivalent” skill usable with each kit (equipped or stowed), combined with faster weapon swapping than a warrior to also give us weapon skills in the mix.
thats up to 5 weapons, 4 utilities.
eles get 4 weapons, 3 utilities.
where do we get shorted? a lack of stun break?
fine, 4 weapons, 3 utilities, one side effect, and one stun break with side effects.
hmm.
That was in context of discussion of the toolbelt.
If we were to run a 4 kit build, our F-utilities: We have a pool of exactly 1/3 Healing skills, and 5 out of all our utilities, paying for the pidgeon hole we’re getting ourselves into.
If comparing to the Eles, they get passive attunement buffs, and can use their full utility list.
As for the toolbelt skills ON those kits.. they’re worthy of being utility skills on their own. For many of the OTHER skills, however, the effects are either too weak or cooldowns are too long IMO. A bunch of the Toss Elixir effects don’t warrant having a 90s cooldown, and other things people have repeated ad-infinitum.
We got shorted on the toolbelt. =<
Interrupts on demand are almost never bad!
putting things on engineer jealous view:
Eles have 4 (“KITS”) plus utilitiesYet there F-keys do nothing but arm their equivalents of kits, as you put it. While my utility choices give me 4 skills there, each having the usefulness and value of a elementalist utility skill, except as an engineer we get 4. They only get 3.
Well, our toolbelts are supposed to be balanced (damage and cooldown wise) to be less effective than slot skills. If they were equivalent to slot skills then someone rolling three utility skills (instead of kits) would have access to six really good abilities, and would be over powered in the eyes of other classes.
One problem with this idea is that some of our toolbelts do in fact have the same level of utility as a slot skill, like BoB, grenade barrage and throw elixir R among others. I guess we do pay for this versatility (ie having more slot skills) in the damage of our main attacks, but this has the effect of people viewing our abilities as spammy as opposed to effective.
Also, since we have this hybrid system where some toolbelt skills are as powerful as slot skills (those that belong to most kits, like grenade, bomb, and med-kit), and some are balanced to be weak because they’re not meant to be slot skills (toss elixir U/C come to mind) we might get taxed on both fronts. We might get taxed for having extra utility slots by doing less damage per attack (meaning we have to attack a lot more than other classes) and we get taxed by not having a weapon swap.
Or everything is balanced to be this way and we’re worrying ourselves into little old men over this toolbelt.
but we SOLD 5 weapon skill slots to get those 4!
If I give them 5 dollars for 4 bags and 4$ worth of goodies to put in that bag, I don’t want to see the bags only be able to carry 75c worth of stuff.
Doublepost, but fun fact:
This guardian:
http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fUAQJASBFlhDD5FCQEA
can field: 6 fields (2 types), 5 finishers (3 types). <— 6 combinations.
Your build, sir.
7 fields (6 types) (Counting traits)
5 finishers (2 types, 2 20%)
11 possible combinations (although one is quite unreasonable to pull off)
Can I offer a corollary build?
http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fYAQNAoaVlUmyO3eS9E+JA
4 Fields, (3 types), 8 Finishers (4 types) <—- 12 combinations.
snip
I got proven wrong? So I post how we very factually have access to creating more fields, and you claim I am wrong because “YOU” feel they are not reliable? Sorry, But I do nor feel using a bomb kit or grenade kit as losing an ability.Now your going to go on and claim bombs are only useful in one situation? You tell me to read up on the class? I use bombs every day. Unlike yourself, I do not need to read about the profession to post about it. Unlike yourself, I know it from doing it.
Twist it, turn it, and make stuff up about it all you like my friend, we have the most fields avaliable to us. We have the most blast finishers variable to us. I am sorryh if the facts upset you, but claiming they ar enot reliable does not change the fact that we have access to them.
If you feel our kits are waste of utility slots, feel free not to use them.
Yes. We have access to creating more types of fields. I agree factually.
More? no.
Also, we do not have the most blast finishers available to us. If you are including each instance of “Detonate Turret” for each turret, you’re kind of ignoring “Plant standard” for each banner. That’s kind of a double standard. (No pun intended)
Also, reading up on the other classes if you don’t have alts doesn’t hurt.
I actually like FT5.
It works even when you’re disabled, although it should either be a finisher (Blast) or a field…. (Smoke), but it’s not entirely worthless.
It’s still a 5 second AOE blind with a 20 second cooldown, that works through stun.
There are not many “things” that produce a field and a finisher and EG allready does a field.
As for evac- is combat collision on? I found it made a difference for me
And use at your own peril on uneven terrain – an engineer stuck between two rocks is a dead engineer
I agree, it’s still rare, but there is precedent already..
Well, Bomb kit makes a fire and smoke field, AND has a blast finisher…
not to mention that Elixir gun’s already got that 20% projectile and light field finisher…
Fun fact: Black Powder makes a smoke field AND is a 100% projectile finisher. Instant smoke on call for 6 initiative seems really strong….
Remove our primary weapons, and give us 5 more utility slots. (While leaving the toolkit slots the same)
Is it a crazy suggestion? Maybe.
Will it make us overpowered? Maybe.
Will it solve some of our versatility problems? Yes.
quite a few of our problems has been that there isn’t enough utility slots to actually take advantage of our excellent variety of utility skills or most of our major class mechanics (kits and turrets).
We’ve already paid for our versatility with the loss of weapon swap, so trading our other weapon for more utility/free slots wouldn’t be too out of flavor.
If the lack of weaponry is not to your liking, chopping up the current skills and repopulating 1-5 wouldn’t be too far-fetched, or even repackage the skills into a weapon kit of some sort isn’t too unreasonable.
Would these changes be unacceptable?
Discuss!