Guild Wars 2

A single trait was the reason a few people picked a class. A single trait revamped entire playstyles. A single trait helped establish world peace and fought against world’s decrimination. It was the death of a single trait – nay, of a true hero.

5v5 definitely needs improving.

From what I’ve experimented so far, I absolutely love it! It’s clearly not as popular as 8vs8, but I feel like I make a bigger difference.

So, I entered this map and my team was losing 70-350. We’ve worked hard, and by the end of the match, we lost 400-500. Even though it was a loss, it felt extremely satisfying, because such a thing would never have happened in a zerg 16-man match.

5v5 has a big problem, though: most of the time, it’s not 5v5. It’s 3v3, or 4v4. That’s because there’s always those players that leave the match anytime before it ends. So we get 2-3 dedicated players in each team, and 2-3 slots for other players to come in and go.

I was also going to suggest that, for casual spvp, it may be better to have 12-man matches over 10-man matches. 6v6 will mean, in practice, 4v4 or 5v5 most of the time, taking into account the player recycling that is common in hot-join.

Another problem is the rewards. I feel like 5v5 (and even if it was 6v6), atlhough funnier and deeper than 8v8, punishes you for more time spent to get the same rewards. I have a question: Are the win rewards at the end of a match spread towards all players? If not, maybe they should, so 5v5 match wins could give slightly better end rewards to compensate for their longer duration. When it comes to mid-game points, I feel they are fine as they are.

Maybe better rewards could be enough to make more players stick until the end?

I haven’t played many dungeons, in fact, I’ve only played through ascalon and furnace for story mode. They were decent, beatable, and that was basically my impression. I love party-driven gameplay, but I’m more of a normal pve guy than a dungeon guy.

However, Fractals is absolutely AMAZING. Seriously. Playing Fractals is a whole level ahead of general pve play in this game, fun-wise, and from dungeon play too, from my very limited experience. The levels are diverse, they are creative, they are fun, and at level 1, they are acessible for anyone to enjoy. There’s just a sharp contrast between the lonely or zergy pve experience or the boss fights with too much HP in the dungeons I’ve played, and my experience with Fractals so far.

This dungeon and the new pvp map are, from my semi-casual playing experience, GW2’s mechanics executed at their best and at their funniest. They’re so good, that they’re giving me hope that the sea of sorrows map tomorrow is also going to improve upon the general pve’s experience, like the former two improved upon the dungeon experience and the conquest pvp mode experience.

Regardless, extremely well done, Anet! Best patch so far, best content so far.

Haven’t played enough of the map yet, but I’m loving it. I like how the cap points are close to each other, how the time is spent so much on capping as it is on getting bonus effects, and the verticality of the whole thing. It feels, in my opinion, the most complex map so far, in a good way.

It’s no longer only about capping a point and going for one of the remaining two points, one or two exceptions aside. The verticality works extremely well with the conquest mode, the added emphasis on secondary mechanics promote movement more so than any other secondary mechanic, and decision making AND diversity to the conquest mode, and the big anti-bunker effect is just delicious.

I’m no pvp pro, I don’t understand clearly what makes a map well designed or not, but I certainly feel it’s well designed for this one. It’s just so much fun, that if I had to choice, I would like to rotate between this one and any other future maps that could be like this one.

Future map suggestions: what about a pvp map with some small jumping puzzle elements?

I can’t stop laughing, it is a funny bug. But take no offense to that. Hope you get your fixes soon (next content patch for december?)

The blind and cripple are helpful, especially for D/D. But a damage buff would be nice.

EDIT:
@tomlin: the damage is the same, the attacks just no longer count as blast finishers.

Elementalist’s power builds are a bit underpowered.

That does not means, however, that all elementalist builds are underpowered.

We have some excellent traitlines, especially on water and arcana, and we are mostly restricted by them. However, as long as you stick to the best traits we have, you can switch between a more balanced or defensive build attribute-wise and be worthwhile with it.

Good defensive elementalists are stubborn. They refuse to die.
(And they were overpowered before the last patch, with infinite blast finishers for countless might-stacking and regeneration stacking from a single trait. Yeah, they weren’t very weak exactly).

ThiBash.5634:

I’m looking for a build that allows me to change effects based on my creativity at the moment. Evasive Arcana allowed me to pick an effect based on the available combo fields out there. It kept me thinging and planning constantly. That’s what appealed to me and that’s what Í’m looking for. A very flexible, constantly changing build that changes based on the decisions you make.

Wasn’t this option always available for Staff, even before people found out how to abuse EA? You still have your two Arcane skills and your Earth skills.

Earth skills will require more planning and skill than EA, because you must priotize specific attunement orders. You have Eruption -> change attunement -> pick combo field of choice, or field -> change to earth -> Shockwave (and Stoning). With the two Arcane skills, you can have finishers on demand when you want to stack them up or when that specific order is not available or optimal. Add in the elite glyph of elementals for extra fields.

Evasive Arcana still allows you to pick your effect, although not with combo finishers. As an alternative, you have the other grandmaster trait that affects arcane and, even if you don’t like either of them, you have the arcane’s 20% cooldown reduction trait.

Think of it like two arcane skills = 2 dodges, except the combo finishers are different now. Which is not all that bad. Doesn’t the projectile applies daze through the lightning field?

EDIT: You can also add in for your third utility a conjure weapon for extra combo finishers – but yeah, I know, conjure weapons are a bit poor. Still worth experimenting with the new changes. Lightning Hammer adds a field and (one?) leap finisher, giving you three different ways to finish fields when taking into account your arcane skills.

I think that conjure weapons should open a lot of new playstyles the day they are properly balanced.

ThiBash.5634:

DiogoSilva.7089:

If you go check the other profession boards, everyone is saying the same. Everyone feels that their profession is weaker than all other 7.

Let me rephrase the question: what profession would you recommend that’s even remotely as much fun as an Evasive Arcana staff elementalist?

D/D Elementalist.

Your question is a bit vague, and it does depend specifically on what makes it fun to you. Is it the rolling in and out? Dual Daggers are extremely fun at that, even if in a different way (ex. you’ll dodge and pull in to survive while sustaining damage, not to generate finishers, except for magnetic grasp). Or do you want a party support build about rolling in and out? D/D Elementalist with Auras. Also different, but very fun too.

But then again, I’m biased, because D/D is my favourite playstyle.

fixit.7189:

Nerf gaurdian self combos then. If we are not allowed to, neither should they nor anyone else for that matter.

Wrong, this is one of the many details that makes classes distinct from each other.

Guardians rely more on self-combo fields with a few of their weapons. Warriors and Rangers are more one-sided towards finishers. Staff elementalists are more one-sided towards fields. Other eles rely on self-combos, but are restricted to burning/ might stacking mostly. Mesmers have self-combos but can’t use them as often and reliably as Guardians can. Etc. Each profession is distinct at this.

I agree that EA created a fun playstyle, but everyone could tell that something was wrong when a single trait redefined the entire playstyle of a weapon with 20 skills. But that’s more of a problem with Staff’s bland playstyle. If people loved rolling in and out with their old Staff + EA build, they should try D/D. It’s different, but there’s a lot of rolling in and out too.

I think we should get a blast finisher rolling trait in the future, but not for EA. Or maybe only for one of EA’s attunement effects (earth?).

If you go check the other profession boards, everyone is saying the same. Everyone feels that their profession is weaker than all other 7.

EDIT: But if you dislike nerfs, stay away from Thief/ Guardian/ Mesmer. They’re the top priority targets to take down. Have you seen how much Mesmers were nerfed last patch? :P You would come at the forums stating the future isn’t bright for those.

If you like buffs, pick underpowered classes like the elementalist. For example, the Ranger and the Necromancer. But then you would come at the forums stating the future isn’t bright for those.

Warrior is probably your best bet. It’s strong, but not “top-tier” strong. It’s possibly the best balanced class in the entire game, and it has only been getting small nerfs or small buffs in all of their patches. Probably the best class for those that dislike MMORPG nerf culture.

terrordrone.1875:

I’m just going to level my warrior with 5 new combo finishers now.

Your “I have lots of combo finishers” warrior is not much different than “I have lots of combo fields” staff elementalist. But maybe Warriors have their own version of the old Evasive Arcana, but that creates fields instead of finishers?

You can also experiment with several of the buffed skills and traits we have gotten in this patch.

ThiBash.5634:

At least daggers can make use of their own might buffs. Without Evasive Arcana, we’re stuck watching others get buffed by our fire fields…

If Staff elementalists that love self-combos haven’t been using Earth and Arcane skills to interact with their own fields, then this is a perfect time to learning how to do so.

Seriously, I understand that Evasive Arcana was the god-tier of all traits, to the point that a single bug fix to a single trait can make an entire staff userbase melt in exaggerated drama, but there’s more life to Staff than a single trait.

Evasive Arcana works best with D/D now, due to its limited range. Honestly, there’s no master earth trait that’s better.

You can get the earth cooldown reduction, but it’s only relevant to earthquake IMO. Churning Earth is only used sometimes, and all other skills have low cooldowns. I don’t like bleeding duration increase, and the generic +5% damage boosts feel weaker than Evasive Arcana.

EDIT: Actually, now that I’m reading it again, you have 0 points in earth? Are you using an aura build? Or are you using the cantrips + regeneration + condition removal water traits? If it’s the later, add 10 points into earth for the armor of earth trait! There’s no better one than that.

Ahh, when a patch comes up, the drama queens wake up, and the forums are filled with drama, oh drama, my god, so much drama!

Did I read anyone saying that Evasive Arcana is what made D/D fun? Really, seriously? D/D is extremely fun due to its level of intensity, fast-paced combat and mobility. It’s adrenaline inducing due to the low passive defenses and melee-range, and it’s a highly rewarding, highly satisfying weapon when you get used to it. And, when I mean mobility, I mean dodging out of attacks and catching in right after. D/D never was about mindlessly wasting your dodges around Ring of Fire to gain 6 stacks of might. D/D playstyle never depended on a single trait to be as awesome as it is. And with better RTL and M.Grasp, it should be even funnier now.

Staff’s playstyle, meanwhile, was always a bit bland. Most of the fun came from knowing how to combo your earth finishers with your other attunements’ fields, or crowd controling before or after you put in your fire nukes. Yes, yes, a single broken trait transformed staff from a combo field generator to a self-combo beast of a weapon, but you can still have that fun with two utilities and with three earth skills. It just requires more skill with the later. If Staff’s playstyle is bland, that is something inherently wrong with the weapon itself. The fact that a bug fix to a single trait can make the weapon a lot more boring to a lot of you, only shows the inherent problems with the staff. A weapon should not depend on a SINGLE trait to be fun.

That being said, I always got the idea that Elementalists were never meant to be specialized self-combo machines. Their self-combos usually come with restrictions. Scepter and Dagger are about might stacking and a bit of burning through combos – that’s mostly it. Staff self combos require utility skills and attunement switching, outside of a single trait that completely revamped that. Self-combos are usually best done by professions like the Guardian.

Devs consider that the rangers are the ones that need most dev support at the moment, especially because they haven’t even gotten the full changes they were promised to. Unlike us elementalists, which were promised downed state changes and and D/D improvements, and we’ve gotten that already in the patch before the last one.

Our “nerfs” were almost irrelevant compared to the nerfs some of the other professions have gotten. Have you ever looked at the mesmer clone changes?

Temperantia.3207:

I’m not supporting Anet ever again. I’ll never forget this. I’m feeling disrespected and violeted.

If the typical MMORPG world of patches and nerfs is too harsh for you, you should prepare yourself very well for real life.

thetreebranch.4831:

It’s got a 10 second cooldown. If they made the blast finishers on a 10 second cooldown as well, that would have been perfectly fine. Instead, they removed them completely. This trait is no longer worthy of being at grandmaster tier. It’s more like a minor trait (deal damage to target when switching to this attunement worthy)

This trait gives you an extra block, party-wide condition removal and heal, and crowd cripple in addition to the damage. It has a lot of utility, and it’s very versatile.

If only all our minor traits were this good…

Picking the second copy on the ground does not applies the new buff effect.

EDIT: Conjure Frost + Signet of Water + Mist Form might be a decent alternative to triple cantrip builds for regeneration, but it’s probably not still good enough as a whole (cantrips are still the best utility we have, and they offer 9s of regen over 6s from the first trio).

Fiery Greatsword seems decent for an elite spot for any weapon combo.

NevirSayDie.6235:

NevirSayDie.6235:

Everyone thinks eles got hit really hard but the way I read the patch notes, they can still do 4 dodge blast finishers in 10 seconds, right? They just have to switch attunements between each dodge roll now.

Hmm, just checked the ele forum and it looks like I was wrong. No more blast finishers at all. Looks like I have to eat my words on that one—looks like eles are back to being the weakest profession.

Nah, elementalists are still strong without EA. With the right builds, of course. And now Mist Form gets a cooldown reduction when traited, finally.

Conjure buffs are just that – buffs, however, they are not applied when you pick the weapon from the ground.

With this last patch, conjure weapons now increase your stats when you cast them. However, they do not increase your stats when you pick a second copy on the ground.

Strang.8170:

Staff got nerfed, it´s still viable though.

But the main thing this did is that s/d or d/d is now downright better in most cases.

They were nerfed too, as people used EA with them for might stacking.

Nonlinear.9823:

DiogoSilva.7089:

A single trait that offers, in addition to four skills, four blast finishers, is broken in my humble opinion. Evasive Arcana got as big of a nerf as it was begging to.

I think it’s a good, balanced trait as it is now.

Spoken like a true fanboy. Are you taking a break from defending the new bait and switch gear treadmill to pick on the weakest class in the game?

Bunker eles were one of the strongest builds in the entire game before the patch. And they’re still good. Oh yeah.

That being said, it’s unfortunate that backstab thieves and bunker guardians’ nerfs weren’t in time for this patch.

Spacefish.4623:

Thanks for nerfing D/D bunker ele by absolutely gutting the 20 water/30 arcane staff support spec… Meanwhile, warriors get buffed.

So stupid.

Bunker ele builds were stronger than warriors before the update.

Facepunch.5710:

It offers one of four skills and one of four blasts. It’s a grandmaster trait, I don’t think it asking too much that it be a good one.

It offers four skills, because each skill has its own individual cooldown. Evasive Arcana is about changing attunements and punishing opponents whenever you roll. Not about rolling into combo fields whenever they become available, regardless of attunement.

I wouldn’t mind a blast finisher roller trait in the future, but EA was clearly about punishing the opponent by rolling, not about dodging into fields whenever they were created.

They seem to be focusing more on skill changes over trait changes at this point, if we look at all the balancing updates until now. Bug fixes aside.

I also have played with Staff ele, with and without evasive arcana. EA felt unnatural, and it was clearly breaking the weapon’s combo fields.

zombyturtle.5980:

Staff is the weapon that has been nerfed the most however. There is no way (other than arcane wave) to produce a blast finisher in water fields severely crippling the healing that bunker staff relies on.

Earth skills have several combo finishers.

fixit.7189:

Isnt it funny the D/D guys are so happy and laughing at us staff users?

YOU DID NOT GET NERFED TO HECK.

That’s because that, when the game started, D/D was already “nerfed” and staff was already “broken”. Now they’re balanced.

A single trait that offers, in addition to four skills, four blast finishers, is broken in my humble opinion. Evasive Arcana got as big of a nerf as it was begging to.

I think it’s a good, balanced trait as it is now.

Yeah, evasive arcana is a good trait even without blast finishers, and I agree bunker builds are still good. Just not overpowered-good.

People always cry over one nerf or two, even when they happen among many other buffs. I still haven’t tested the changes myself, and I’ve heard some things might have stopped working correctly, but in theory it was a good patch.

Relevant Fixes

• Ride the Lightning/ Magnetic Grasp/ Mist Form’s trait – People were begging for it.
• Evasive Arcana – It was (is) a good trait without blast finishers, it was broken with them. Pretty much only used before to abuse on bunkers water fields.
• Dragon’s Tooth – The blast finisher finally makes sense and works well with Flamewall from Focus.

Relevant Buffs

• Ether Renewal – One more worthwhile condition removal effect, especially relevant for D/D or Staff without cantrips/ water investment.
• Conjure buffs! Let’s see how they play out now, and with the fix on Soothing Wave, Frost Bow + Mist Form + Signet of Water might prove to be an alternative to triple cantrip for regeneration builds.

Relevant Nerfs

• Evasive Arcana as mentioned above, which was breaking bunker builds, and Healing Ripple, which was too strong on bunker builds.

Elites

• Tornado’s nerf was weird, possible done by the bug’s dev team instead of the balancing dev team, or something. Lich and Avatar of Melandru got the same changes.
• Anyways, Tornado has always been bad at what it was meant to do, while Fiery Greatsword might actually be something now.

CONCLUSION

• Devs are still priotizing skill changes over trait changes, as has been for the last patches, bug fixes aside.
• Some important bug fixes should frustate us less now.
• Bunker builds were nerfed, as expected;
• Conjure Weapons were buffed, at last. Will those buffs be enough? I don’t know, but if they are, they might have a pretty big effect on elementalist building, especially when it comes to: weapon switching options, damage builds and even bunker/ healing builds. Also, another candidate for the elite slot now.

Furienify.5738:

DiogoSilva.7089:

It was worth a grandmaster trait even before people discovered it counted as blast finisher and abused it like mad for absolutely crazy bunker builds.

So we’re on the same page that a PvP nerf screwed over one of our most versatile PvE support options?

Bunker eles were unkillable, broken machines, and anyone knows this. We might be lacking at glass cannon builds, but our bunker builds were broken.

SecondtoNone.7549:

Funny how we used to have “hopes” for this patch…

Taking a look at the patch notes, it was a good patch. Important Bug fixes, nerfs to bunker builds, buffs to conjures.

Evasive Arcana is a strong trait that was beyond broken. Crying about it is like crying because thieves are getting nerfed.

It’s still a heal+condition removal on water, extra block on air, cripple (and little bleeding) in earth and burning in fire. You’re still going to remove and heal yourself with it, you’re still going to control your foe’s movement with it, you’re still going to get free blocks, you’re still going to apply extra conditions, and each skill still recharges for 10 seconds only individually, all in one.single.trait.

It was worth a grandmaster trait even before people discovered it counted as blast finisher and abused it like mad for absolutely crazy bunker builds.

People still expect weapon switch in combat for an elementalist? You know, you’re going to disappoint yourself for the entire existence of the game.

Whirlpool is stronger than Tornado, because the pull in helps you at keeping your foes close to you. They must dodge to avoid it, but even then, you can dodge too to get to them faster. Tornado push actually makes it much harder to hit with the elite a second or third time, and at the middle of a zerg, you contribute to spreading them out, making tornado weaker.

Of course, some kind of protection would be great.

Calle.8746:

I hope they leave our damage alone. Only thing damage-wise I’d like to see change is the cast time on our attacks.

If you invest on fire/ air over the other traitlines, you’ll get slightly more damage for far, far less defense.

Our best builds don’t need more damage, but our glass cannon builds sure do.

More freedom usually means more extreme builds and less diversity, because people would pick the single best combinations, and we would get a meta of extreme bursts and extreme bunkers, as if our current meta wasn’t already shallow enough. We need restriction. But maybe, yeah, a few more amulets to pick wouldn’t be a bad thing, as long as they were properly balanced.

Expectations:
- Nerf to bunker builds.
- Lots of bug fixes.
- Lots of skill changes.
- Minor changes to traits outside of bug fixes.
- Underwater improvements.

Hopes:
- RTL and M.Grasp fixed.
- Spike/ systained damage builds improved.
- Changes to several traitlines.
- Elite improvements.
- Balance check on glyphs.

Wishful thinking:
- Conjure weapons fixed.

Joiry.2504:

Diogo, I have yet to see any argument from you that actually backs up the claim vertical progression is necessary. All you’ve done is assert it is, and use as proof other games use it.

Yes, you can base a game around vertical progression. You can innovate within that box. Doesn’t change the fact its still a box, and a small box.

I get it, you like vertical progression. However, you can’t seem to understand not everyone else does. And no, its not necessary, its not integral to gaming.

If its the path Anet wants to take, then fine, its their company, their game, and their revenues. They just need to be upfront and honest about it.

Furthermore – even within your own paradigm of vertical progression – I don’t see how you can think that baking in the rune/upgrade slot as an unmodifiable stats and repurposing the slot as an infusion slot is somehow innovative. Its a total hack, and will end up getting dead-ended in not too long. What’s the next step – baking in the infusions and freeing up the slot for yet another upgrade?

I agree that Anet needs to be more honest and clear about their (new) intentions, and may add that they haven’t exactly convinced me with the new patch changes. I want to wait and see first, and I don’t even expect the new changes to be perfect at all.

The thing is, I’ve seen a lot of people that convinced themselves that vertical progression = tedious MMORPG grinding, and i was simply trying to show that it’s much more than that.

I don’t mind horizontal progression (I love pvp), and I think this kind of progression still needs to be perfected in this game (events and hearts should have more diversity, although events have been going that route since halloween; and I think pve should generally be harder to require more skill), but I don’t mind seeing statistical progression as long as it’s well implemented. Which I don’t know if it’ll be or not yet.

P.S. If GW2 ever became a gear-grinding mindless game, I would give up on its pve aspect too, because I have lost my patiente for grinding-driven games years ago.

Joiry.2504:

Equating vertical progression with having or not having characters in a story is a ridiculous analogy. You’re just declaring vertical progression is as inherent as verbs in a language. How are you even making such declaration?

Vertical progression is an element of gaming, from where you can create countless different mechanics. The originality lies in the mechanics themselves.

In other words:

What it comes down to is innovation. You are clearly happy with how most MMOs/RPGs do things.

That’s not what I said. Other MMOs/ RPGs have their own mechanics to achieve vertical progression. How innovative they are or not depends on said mechanics. GW1, for example, has titles, content unlocked by storyline (the biggest one), skill merchants, levels (even if only to 20), etc.

Personally, I hope they choose innovation instead of rehashing what all other games (by your own admission) already do.

I hope they make fun mechanics instead of rehashing old, dry mechanics. Vertical progression can be there either way without affecting originality.

Joiry.2504:

Your own argument basically invalidates itself. Yes, there are plenty of RPGs (MMO or single player) that have vertical progression. Why does GW2 have to be Yet Another vertical Progression Game? Anet made and continues to make noise about how innovative it is. Yet your argument is, well, everyone else does it, do GW2 should do it too.

Vertical progression is not a mechanic. It’s an essence of videogaming.

I’m going to give an example from a different medium: storytelling.
A writer can also decide to write a story without characters (yes, some have “done” it) to be original, but does that means it’ll be any good? Does that means that any story that has characters in it is cliché and a cheap rip-off of any other story ever writen? Nope, the originality behind a story has little or nothing to do with it having characters or not, but how those characters (and how other storytelling elements) are told.

The existence of vertical and horizontal progression do not make a game less or more original. What truly defines its originality is in how those elements are executed.

I don’t know if GW2 will do it right or not with the next patch, but some people’s hate with an essencial aspect of videogaming is incredible.

If GW2 keeps adding vertical progression you can’t do this, because by the time you get back to the game all your previous work is probably rendered useless, and instead of jumping right into the stuff you want to do, you have to go and get your gear up to par again first. That’s where it becomes grinding.

GW2 is an online game. Nothing can change that. But as long as getting the better stuff is fun, it’s not a grind. If the game forces you to kill 1000 rats to get the loot you need, it’s a grind. If you can get it simply by knowing how to play (= horizontal progression) and exploring (=horizontal progression) and beating hard content (dungeons), then it won’t be a grind, unless you must do it countless times too.

Let’s first wait to see how fun and diverse it is to get this new gear tier, before claiming it’ll be a grind.

GustavoM.7605:

DiogoSilva.7089:

Really, people, what is wrong with vertical progression?

It promotes power and repetition over everything else.
To make It more clear: Forces a player to repeat a specific content over and over again for a single goal: obtain more power, promoting elitism.

You’re wrongly associating “grinding” (the act of repeating a monotonous task over and over) with “vertical progression”.

I’m not sure if you have ever played a RPG outside of the MMORPG genre, but there’s plenty of rpgs out there where you become stronger by simply following the storyline, finding a new town and buying new stuff from the weapon’s shop, or finding a treasure chest in a dungeon for a shiny new sword, or even getting rewarded with that shiny sword for killing the boss at the end of the dungeon.

That is not grinding. But it’s vertical progression. And it’s very fun and rewarding. The entire RPG genre is build around a few concepts, one of them being (statistical) growth.

The big question here is, will the new equipment tier for GW2 require grinding? If so, it’ll be boring and repetitive. Will it be a proper reward for beating difficult content? If so, it’ll be fun and fair.

Vertical progression does not automatically means grinding. It depends on the implementation. Likewise, horizontal progression can also be a grind when it’s monotonous and repetitive, like most heart quests in this game.

IMO, a RPG is at its best when it has a healthy combination between horizontal and vertical progressions.

GW2 is at its best when you progress vertically through horizontal progression instead of grinding. When you get better gear, or better means to get that gear, by doing a lot of different tasks that keep the game diverse and prevent it from being a grind. I hope the devs never forget that.

I think people are doubting the new changes, because unlike GW1’s greens, ascended equipment is going to be stronger than exotic.

Really, people, what is wrong with vertical progression? It’s an absolutely wonderful thing when implemented right, or have none of you ever played and got addicted to countless offline RPGs in the market?

If GW2 had none of it, you would have started the game maxed, at level 80, with all the best gear, and no means to statistically grow at all. The lack of vertical growth only makes sense in pvp, and even then, it has its kind of ranking system, and it NEEDS to develop its ranking system, for better matchmaking in the future.

Vertical progression is good, and GW2 and GW1 had plenty of it. But apparently, a lot of think that vertical = grinding.

Let me tell you one little piece of shocking information: GW2 has grinding in form of horizontal progression. It’s called the heart quests, and most of them are mindless, repetitive and same-y as much as vertical gear grinding usually is in other MMOs. Shocking, I know.

Conclusion: It all depends on the implementation. It can be fun, or it can be grindy, repetitive and monotonous. if they ever make this vertical progression fun, it’s already a step ahead to the horizontal progression repetitive grind that the current heart quests are.

Facepunch.5710:

Sigh.

How can you possibly know this? I read your entire explanation and saw no justification of how you presume to know the devs’ intentions and/or understanding OF THEIR OWN GAME. You create an interesting scenario (that is totally speculative) but, my god man, rein in the arm waving.

The devs have said something along the lines that they started revealing the simplest classes first. That’s it. I’m not saying it’s a bad thing elementalists became a complex class, just that it probably wasn’t their intention at first.

Bunzy.8674:

Rieselle.5079:

I don’t know much about competitive FPS, what kind of gametype do games like BF3 and TF2 use in esports?

A quick google search gives me:
http://battlefield.gigabyte.com/en/statics/rules

Which says conquest? Or does BF3 “conquest” mean something different?

Conquest is a great mode in FPS, I would agree.

However, conquest in an MMO is just boring.

Tip: You can’t bunker build in an FPS.

I’m hoping bunker builds get nerfed this patch. And the new map, with the ability to kill a boss and cap all points instantly, sounds very cool on theory. Let’s see how the patch changes the pvp environment.

Kuthos.9623:

I didn’t make the game. Anet chose to make elementalists more complex than the other classes. In every game, there’s always a class which takes more effort and research to make it work than others. In this game, well it’s elementalist. If you don’t like it play something else.

Actually, I feel like Anet didn’t want the elementalist to be this complex. It was the first profession they revealed before the game was out, and they said they were planning to reveal their professions in order of complexity. First we got the elementalist, then the warrior, then the ranger.

If we look at elementalists’ skills, traits, utility, etc, they are all very simplistic, not unlike a ranger or a warrior. And while a warrior has huge defense and offense, and a ranger a pet that does half the damage for them, an elementalist would be a walking library full of versatility and spiking damage (if we go by their class description).

I think that, at first, the devs weren’t aware how the attunement system (alongside the low defense) made the elementalists so complex. Unlike a Mesmer, whose shatters are all about sacrifing everything for a single, most of the times abstract effect, the concept behind attunements is very simple: you change one attunement, and your 5 simplistic weapon skills are changed to other 5 simplistic weapon skills.

Anyways, the attunements made eles much stronger than other professions in the beta, and the eles were drastically nerfed at that time. And I wonder: if they nerfed all other professions, would they still be easy mode? Would a nerfed warrior be able to auto-attack and kill anything? What about a nerfed thief?

Is the elementalist harder to play because it’s inherently more complex, or because it’s weaker? Or a bit of both? Let’s nor forget that a Mesmer, both in theory and in practice, is at least as hard to play with, and possibly harder to understand for newbies. But so why do Mesmers have an easier time?