No, the skill is fine in theory. They should simply fix the bugs, streamline the ranges, and maybe tone down the high casting time for 1 second or something.
Yes, but even if the devs balanced the game in such a way that a Mesmer and other professions could have 5-6 different meta builds instead of just 1, wouldn’t all of those mesmer builds still need to take Portal anyway because no one else could? The only other solution I could see to prevent that, is to keep nerfing and nerfing Portal, until it hardly became relevant, but then pvp tactics would suffer from this, because Portal does add some extra tactical options as it is. And, of course, mesmer fans wouldn’t surely like it.
Maybe not even for “every class”, but to several of them, especially some of the most underused. Like the Engineer and Necro.
An “Underworld” portals for necros that would only warp them back and not the entire party (maybe excluding other necros), would give them interesting mobility and interesting bunker options that a guardian wouldn’t have, but it would not compete with Mesmer’s because it would not work with allies.
A “portal tool” or even a “teleport kit” for engineers could be randomized, create an unpredictable mess in the battlefield, making it inferior to Mesmer’s at its main goal, but it would offer more secondary options through the kit or toolbelt skills, making it more versatile in secondary situations.
EDIT: I don’t think it would be that hard to do, because the mechanic is already coded, and they would just have to make some changes to the code to adapt it to other professions. However, unless they would remove 1 utility from those classes, we probably would have to wait until an expansion for them to add new skills.
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Alternative portal-like skills could work differently. For example, profession A could have a portal skill that only warps the own caster back, and not the entire party; profession B could have a portal-like skill that is unpredictable and chaotic unlike the Mesmer’s; and profession C could have a weaker portal-like skill with added mess/ conditions/ pets like the examples I created in the starting post. This would keep Mesmer’s portal as the simpler but straight-to-the-point effective version of the mechanic, which is by itelf an advantage.
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Removing/sharing key features of one class is not balance.
Before we want to axe stuff that works how about we buff the useless traits+utilities that exist, you know, 95% of the other skills?
What’s with this logic of ‘’this is something everyone uses, we should axe it’’
‘’Guardian bunker too much of a must, nerf them’’
‘’Necro rez sig too strong, makes everyone take it, nerf it’’
‘’Mesmer time warp and portal too strong, nerf them’’
‘’Thief burst too strong, nerf it’’
‘’Ele 2gud, nerf them’’Every single balance thread is focused on silly stuff like this when there are traits like ‘’damage foe when you interrupt them’’, with the damage being a whooping 300 dmg at lvl 80 regardless of your weapon.
You have completely missed the point of this topic. I’m not talking about balance, I’m talking about design. I’m not even suggesting any nerf here.
Of the examples you mentioned, even though a guardian bunker is the best bunker, other professions can bunk as well. Even though the thief has the best burst, other professions can burst as well. Even though necro has a good rez signet, other profesions have rez skills as well. But no one, except the mesmer, can play the map warping role.
This is comparable to the heal/ tank roles in other games, or the Monk class in GW1. It’s not about balance, it’s about a design issue that makes everyone pick a specific profession, not because it’s mathematically strong, but because it’s mechanically needed.
When people are asking for a nerf to portal, not because it’s too strong, but because pvp needs that mechanic and only a mesmer has it, then the solution should be to spread that mechanic to other classes, not to nerf it, IMO.
Keep in mind that an elementalist, in addition to high mobility, has plenty of aoe. That means that if you join any zerg, chances are,you’ll get credit for all/ most of the kills. Eles also have excellent defensive builds which allows them to survive in groups, buying time for your party members to finish off your opponents.
I sometimes use a staff elementalist to farm glory in spvp. Basically, you apply swiftness to yourself to move between points quickly, have strong defense to survive duels (staff is not very good at killing in duels), and go where the zergs are, spamming meteor showers and other fields. You’ll make your party stronger with combo fields, crowd control up to 2-3 opposing players at the same time, and get kill credits for all foes that were hit by your fields, even if it’s a backstab thief or someone else who kills them/ deals the most damage to them.
If the Mesmer would become useless by sharing one mechanic of a single utility, which I think they would not, that would be a balance issue. In this topic, I’m not talking about balancing directly, but about a design issue. By design, I think that giving portal only to mesmers would be like giving a rez utility only to guardians, a running signet only to rangers or a stun-breaker only to another single class. The nature of pvp requests those mechanics, and if only a single class has it, then that class becomes core.
Keep in mind that I’m not asking for a portal nerf here. The meta mesmer builds are currently very strong for all they bring, and even with this change, they could still be the class a team would want to bring for the portal mechanic (or even without it). It just happens that there would be more options – at least, that’s what the devs have been trying hard for.
In a way, even the mesmer fans could win with this, because they would no longer be forced to bring a specific utility, should one of their party members bring something similar to portal. This would create situations where the mesmer could bring extra clone fodder utilities for stronger bursts, or null field, or their instant vengueance rez, or whatever they would need that wasn’t in the remaining two utilities already (because you can only have 2 of those there). It would give more build freedom to mesmers. Of course, balancing other utilities to make them stronger would also open the door for new builds, but portalis so important to pvp, that any mesmer ill probably be stuck to it + only 2 other utilities of choice.
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Diogo has been regularly calling for mesmer nerfs and ele buffs, so this thread is not really a surprise.
The current meta build for the Mesmer is overpowered. Outside of the most extreme mesmer fans, who are willing to defend their class no matter what the situation, no one argues against that. Likewise, the best ele builds are also way to strong.
If you have seen me suggest ele’s buffs, chances are, you have seen me suggest changes to underpowered builds, skills or traitlines. Most of those buffs (although surely with a few exceptions aside) wouldn’t make the current eles stronger, but open up the possibility for new builds.
I’m sure that there exist mesmer’s builds, skillsets and utility that are also underpowered. Afterall, you don’t see scepter mesmers being popular in pvp, do you? Because all professions in this game have underpowered builds, regardless if they also have overpowered builds or not.
Mesmers have THE WORST Mobility in the game… Portal helps counter that sometimes because its designed to TELEPORT them. We can’t control death… Our DPS is a joke compared to thieves and warriors.
Keep in mind that portal isn’t about giving mobility to the mesmer, but to the entire party. There’s a difference here. From what I’ve played of the mesmer, I agree they have weaker mobility overall compared to most other classes, but portal is more than a self-mobility skill, it’s one of the most important pvp mechanics in this game.
Finally, mind wrack burst builds are extremely strong, both in damage, in being aoe, and for being instant-speed. And with clones and some stealth/ teleport giving you enough defense to use berserker amulet and kill easily before being killed, and with twice the dodging thanks to vigor per critical, and you have a very solid burst build that melee have a really hard time to counter because they can’t see when all illusions are running towards them. It’s my favourite Mesmer build to use in pvp.
We have a TON of bugs that make our class weak in comparison to others and only a few skills and traits that really shine and we will be up in arms
This applies to every single profession in GW2. It’s not a sole problem with the Mesmers, but a serious issue with the overall game.
Every class needs to bring something different, powerful, useful, and amazing to the group.
Yes, but there’s a difference between (amazing) class mechanics or class skills, and with core gameplay mechanics.
You don’t see only a single profession being able to heal. You don’t see only a single profession being able to use aoe attacks. Nor only a single profession having the increased running speed skills. My point is that the mechanics behind Portal are waaay to important to pvp’s sucess, which makes portal more than “only a mesmer skill”, but actually a huge, important pvp mechanic only available to a single class.
This is like giving the extremely important burst-healing mechanic to a single class (the Monk). It leads to the same kind of problem that the devs have worked hard to prevent in this game: the existence of a class that has exclusive mechanics for itself that are so important to a format, that any other party setup can’t compete in that format if not including the format-defining mechanic.
Guardians aren’t the only profession that can heal or ressurect for the same reason. Rangers and thieves aren’t the only profession that can run faster. Because all those mechanics are way too important to the game as a whole, to be stuck in a single profession.
That’s the difference between portal, and any only class-exclusive mechanic, be it either from the mesmer or from any other class. And even if the portal was an utility from another class, I would suggest the same. So this topic is not even an anti-mesmer topic.
It’s just that I think that the mechanic of a single utility, from a single class – which happens to be the mesmer, is way too broad to only exist in that single class.
Unfortunately, some die-hard mesmer fans in this thread aren’t willing to even listen, and are judging the entire topic because of the topic title.
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The desire to have portals removed because people refuse to learn to play is not the problem of the dev’s it’s the problem of the bads that refuse to think of a counter.
This link shows top teams changing up their play style and meta just to prove mesmers and guardians are not a requirement.
Portal removal and Time Warp threads are really just a L2P issue articulated by people with either no imagination on how to design and play a TEAM build or they’re just too kitten lazy to learn how to counter it.
High mobility teams counter portal. Thief traps counter portal. Bunker negates portal. etc. etc. etc.
Wait, you truly think Time Warp is balanced and “can be countered”?
I have been saying over the guru forums since before the release of this game that Time Warp was the most broken skill of this game, and I’ve been thinking this even before the devs nerfed all other quickness skills/ traits. In fact, when I considered making Mesmer my main character, one of the advantages I’ve immediatly thought of was the existance of this overpowered skill that was at the time negleted.
Quickness has been causing problems in this game even when it lasts only a couple of seconds and has a drawback. Do you really think that a party-wide quickness that also happens to have no drawback, that also happens to last 10s, that also happens to be massive, that also happens to be a combo field, is not overpowered, really?
If Chuck Norris was a party-support field, he would be Time Warp. :P
This is an idea about spreading an important, core mechanic through several classes, instead of being restricted to a single one, or else we’re getting the equivalent of the Monk class back: a single class out of many that can do something extremely important that no one else can.
It has nothing to do with making Mesmers less unique, because the clones, the shatters, the inversals and mirrors, the boon stripping and the rupting are all very distinct to the Mesmer class, and we’re only talking about a single utility anyways.
But there’s a large difference between classes sharing core mechanics, while keeping distinct, flavourful secondary mechanics; with classes having core mechanics all for themselves.
Also, this thread has nothing to do with the current balance (if eles and guardians are op, nerf them), and finally, this isn’t even a complain thread, if any of the mesmer fans even bothered to read this thread.
If portal was another class’s utility, and if that class was the most useless thing ever, I would still suggest this change.
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I understand that the Mesmer is the trickster class, and as such, it’s supposed to have some skills that are more alternative than normal.
However, I think the portal mechanic is way too important to the core of pvp’s gameplay, that it should be treated like the speed-buff signets or the ressurection utilities: available to several professions.
Of course, finding the flavor for that would be needed, because Mesmers are the ones that bend the shape and space of reality, aren’t they? – and that’s what portal does. But with different flavor it could even offer new/ different tricks.
A necromancer, for example, could probably summon an underworld portal at a given point. A pet/ minion/ whatever would come from it with cripple/ chill attacks. As a drawback, only the necromancer itself and the minions would be able to cross the portal, or maybe party members and opponents alike crossing through an underworld portal would need to sacrifice some HP. Or maybe it would generate neutral minion pets attacking any player, creating a short chaotic moment.
An elementalist would be able to leave some kind of whirlwind “portal” that would transport their party through with strong gusts. For the sake of flavor, it could probably have a pull-in effect at the portal entrance to all players (making it harder to use in a point where bunker player was left behind guarding it), and at the end of the “portal”, it would automatically launch to the ground and/ or daze the party that crossed it.
And I’m sure an Engineer could create some sort of crazy portal mechanism with randomized effects and explosions all around the zone.
If we want to go a bit further away from the mechanic itself, but keep the idea of map warping, a necromancer would leave part of his soul at the cost of their HP, and teleport back to that piece of soul if needed. A Guardian could leave an unique “spirit weapon”, generating a field that would punish opponents for standing within it by teleporting the Guardian back to that place with an holy/ burning explosion + push-back. (As a drawback, it would not be triggered by the own caster, so the Guardian could be warped back at the middle of a fight and find themselves unprepared, with low HP and in the middle of 2-3 players).
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I always hoped for this game the trip to getting a Legendary would be just that.. Legendary, full of epic battles and searches, and going places to find rare parts to forge together slowly to make this awesome weapon.. how disapointing it turned out to be.. {end of rant}
I also EXPECTED this, and I’m still hoping for it someday.
I want more ADVENTURES. Something on the level of GW1’s Beyond Content (but with more exploration), where you had a chain of quests/ adventures that make you revisit a lot of old areas, had to go through difficult/ skillful but rewarding content and had a new story/ narrative to follow, with a fat set of rewards at the end of the story, and an optional (ONLY optional) grind to duplicate those rewards. The grinding was really just an optional extra for farmers, power-grinders or perfectionists. Your average player would simply go for the adventure.
Currently, most of GW2’s content revolves around mindless grinding for rare drops. You explore maps for the sake of a mathematical % number, with little lore/ story-telling/ difficulty/ reward behind them. You zerg events and pray for half decent loot. You fight one or two satisfying champion battles with a random group, but you stop when you realize none of them has rewarded you with anything worthwhile. And then you grind for materials, you grave-rush and grind the dungeons, and “grind” the TP for the lack of better options.
I love GW2’s concepts and combat system, but the systems that make you (want to) progress through the game are still very bare-bones (and this includes other systems not discussed in this thread, like the unexciting personal character growth systems and the scarce story instances).
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If it’s to keep the high casting time and the high delay time, then both the damage and the condition would have to go up. Something like 100-200% more damage and 10 stacks of vulnerability. To not make it too strong, make those stacks only last 5 seconds, so you need to switch immediatly to fire to take advantage of them. Would lead to interesting play.
Neither break stuns, right now they are useless in every case.
No.
The cantrips are the best utility skills for us at the moment.
They could make MG and RTL act like HS :I
They could have HS act like MG or Burning Speed. This way, HS wouldn’t be as cheap as it is.
I’ve been successfully with this build in free tourneys.
Diogo’s Burst/ Dodging Roamer
http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fEEQJArYhEmebzR5gjDAEFn4iQxFWUekDO2A;ToAg0U0YoRQjlGHNSaGWcIY+B
Basically, with Berserker amulet, 20 in air, signet of earth and sigil of air, you’re very efficient at killing. Your fire scepter’s skills will hit hard, and a combo like Updraft – Dragon Tooth – Signet’s Immobilize – Ring – Well-targeted Phoenix – Fire Grab will destroy almost anything, and you still have the earth blast finishers to rely on (with Lightning Flash to make sure Churning Earth hits) and a last attunement change back to air for 2 + 3 again. Might-stacking and the possibility of 30s fury only make following bursts stronger once the cooldowns get off.
The vigor you get from criticals and the cantrips, the endurance received from weapon swap, the two cantrips themselves and the regeneration they give, and finally the many healing skills you have (water trident, cleansing wave from skills and from water dodge, water attunment) will give you good chances to survive while taking down your opponent or running away.
I play free tourneys with my guild, and we’re not even that organized. But it’s extremely fun to play with them, and no, we don’t enjoy paid tourneys much because we would get stomped (and because they consume a lot of tickets).
I agree matches should be more balanced, but ruining the fun for people who want to play with their friends for the sake of appealing to solo players is not the way to go. Both types of players should be equally treated.
Attunement changes are weapon swaps, not skills. Mesmers are the only ones who have a gcd on skill use.
The gcd isn’t the real issue though, the might reduction which leads to no decent tagging in DEs is the main problem.
Attunement changes are skills when traited. For example, water attunement is a good aoe healing skill for a bunker (or even any) ele.
I’ve been making free tournaments with the build I posted above with success. I only switched air’s channeling trait with the momevement trait for faster map traveling, and it was worth it.
Diogo’s Burst/ Dodging Roamer :P
http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fEEQJArYhEmebzR5gjDAEFn4iQxFWUekDO2A;ToAg0U0YoRQjlGHNSaGWcIY+B
Basically, with Berserker amulet, 20 in air and signet of earth and sigil of air, you’re very efficient at killing. Your fire scepter’s skills will hit hard, and a combo like Updraft – Dragon Tooth – Signet’s Immobilize – Ring – Well-targeted Phoenix – Fire Grab will destroy almost anything, and you still have the earth blast finishers (with Lightning Flash to make sure Churning Earth hits) and a last attunement change back to air for 2 + 3 again. Might-stacking and the possibility of 30s fury only make following bursts stronger once they become available.
The vigor you get from criticals and the cantrips, the endurance received from weapon swap, the two cantrips by themselves and the regeneration they give, and finally the many healing skills you have (water trident, cleansing wave from skills and from water dodge, water attunment) will give you good chances to survive while taking down your opponent or running away.
staff has only 1 aura. Problem is, the aura I’d most want to share, IS the one on staff
Powerful Auras is not only about spreading the aura effect, but the 3 boons they give when traited too. The protection/ swiftness/ fury spread stacking makes a huge difference. I’d also say fire and frost auras are more useful this way, because the burning/ chilling effect becomes more noticeable.
^That’s how (when) I use it too. In theory it should be great before changing back to other attunements to spike for a little extra damage, but not only is the vulnerability too low for the effort it gets, it also takes too much out of your time.
An instant cast (but still with the delay time) with ~5-6 stacks of vulnerability would be interesting.
Powerful Auras (+ Synergies)
=
Entire party with 8(!) seconds of protection and 10+ seconds of swiftness + fury. More so with signets. Not to mention the stun/ chill/ burn effects from the auras.
This basically makes all allies around you burst for higher damage, while being protected against burst, while kiting, chasing and go capping more effectively.
It’s crazy.
Water Trident is excellent, and alondside with Cleansing Wave, the minor water’s master trait and the water dodge from EA, you get a pretty big heal burst. You can fully recover your health without using a heal skill this way.
Ice Shards is meh, and Shatterstone is terrible.
It works best with D/S or D/F because it gives you access to 3 auras (two weapon skills and one from fire field + leap combo).
I’ve made the following build,
Critical/ Dodge Burst
http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fEEQJArYhEmeblxzgjDAEFmoiQxEWUekDP2A;ToAg0U0YoRQjlGHNSaGWcIY+B
Gain endurance by using your 4 channeling spells, 2-3 (?) of your utilities and swapping attunements, and gain vigor by making critical hits. You have dodge traits to capitalize on this.
The rune of citadel will improve your burst and give you the fury you need. Your utilities will give you an immobilize to spike, arcane blast for more might spreading and extra damage, and the shield for damage + protection. Berserker amulet for the burst.
Although I’m questioning arcana’s master trait, and wondering if I should have -20% arcane cooldown instead, or even something else and switch the arcane utility by more defensive stuff.
Opinions?
EDIT:
Better Version
http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fEEQJArYhEmebzR5gjDAEFn4iQxEWUekDO2A;ToAg0U0YoRQjlGHNSaGWcIY+B
Lightning Flash and Mist Form over the arcane utilities, and the cantrip traits for water. They give vigor, which is generally more useful than that trait, and then regeneration as a bonus. Mist Form is better at protection than the Shield, and L. Flash can be used to hit with churning earth, so there’s not much burst to lose, especially when you can already kill with your burst fully connected.
I could use Vigorous Scepter instead for an additional means to regen endurance, but I’m not sure if it stacks with vigor or if it’s too redudant. Used the arcane shield trait for some anti-burst protection.
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For those who enjoy damage-oriented builds, what are the most solid choices for pvp? I’m bored of the cantrip bunker, and although auramancers are cool, I feel trying something different.
Shatter mesmers are still the best mesmers, aren’t they?
Cant rly complain about the fixes, but that negates the only noticable buff mesmer had last few months :<
It’s not completely negated. It used to last 5s before it ever happened, it now lasts 10s.
SS became 5x stronger last patch, now it’s only 2x stronger than what it used to be.
where is the underwater ranger buffs and neccesary engi nerfs?
This was not a balancing patch. Well, with the exception of the two changes mentioned, but that’s because they were urgent.
Yeah, before the storm comes, I think anyone can understand how strong the trait was, and how exploting a bug was leading to very unfair pvp experience.
The update was not about balancing, but having those two changes leak in shows the urgency behind getting them fixed.
SS was overbuffed last patch (especially in comparison with an ele’s trait, which got its might duration increased from 5s to 10s, Mesmer has gotten not only double the duration, but triple the stacking – which was ridiculous), and both the overbuff and the bug were having negative consequences in pvp.
so if you want more freedom for parties, you would be sacrificing freedom for solos.
If they add more party-driven content, they don’t need to take away what already exists for solo players. This way, you would remain happy, and other unsatisfied players would get happier.
A game like GW2, that wants to appeal to both party players and solo players, a game that promises players that they have a choice between one or the other, must have enough content for both.
And no, party content is not meant to be experienced by solo players, and no, that doesn’t means solo players can’t enjoy this game.
Also another thing – what other MMO did it differently?
Guild Wars 1.
The prequel of this game.
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new features
I would like to see the return of an old feature, one of the things I loved about Guild Wars. Bring back heroes and henchies, please!
(Optional) Heroes/ henchmen would improve the game greatly:
1) Collecting and interacting with story NPCs is fun AND good for the story itself;
2.1) Deeper character building and deeper party customisation for the average player, without forcing anyone to join parties;
2.2) Players with party-support builds would always be in a party;
3) More content designed for parties;
4.1) Devs would have an excellent and very natural Money Sink mechanic, because players would expend hundreds of gold to fully equip their entire party to perfection (and customising their looks, if they are NOT story NPCs).
4.2) In turn, devs could remove money sink from other areas, like traiting, and map teleportation, increasing the playerbase’s mobility.
Deeper content, deeper building, funnier mechanics and a money sink for the devs to keep the economy controlled. Make it so each player can only have one companion or two, so things don’t become a mess when many players are in the same map.
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Reason?
1. Orr is really annoying and slow to do on your own
2. You want to party up and spend time with people.there’s your reasons. It’s optional. You know what’s great about that? You are not forbidden from doing it. You know what I do half the time while exploring? Party up with my boyfriend. Help some noob from the guild. Party up with a friend. Do I have to? Thank godness no, I can solo the content pretty well and am happy about it. If you want to socialize you do, if you don’t then you don’t. Why do you want to take the freedom of choice away from people that like soloing?
I don’t want solo players to have less freedom, I want party players to have more freedom. That’s the difference. Why should one kind of players be treated better than the other?
There’s a lot more to the game than Orr. Especially when you are leveling up. And even when you party with somebody else, where is the strategy that makes partying fun?
I’ve went to Orr, and I haven’t seen party-content. I have seen group zergs, which is a completely different thing. I haven’t see party strategy. I haven’t discussed with someone on how we should beat this guy or overcome that obstacles. I have simply joined the zergs, spammed skills, and finished events while watching TV.
This is not fun. And even if it was, it’s a zone only for level 75-ish or more. What about everything else? What about the other optional maps? And the story instances?
GW2 only truly starting having casual party-driven content with the monthly content patches, especially with Mad King’s and Tixx’s instances, and it has almost no deep party content outside of dungeons.
Partying with your lover or personal friend is cool, but if I want to party with anyone else to meet new people and make new friends, which adventure can make me help other people? Events are a zerg. Hearts are 100% solo, there’s not even an option. Exploration is mostly solo, because everyone has different explored and unexplored maps, and it’s a waste of time going back to a place you’ve been for the sake of “helping” someone in your party. But they won’t usually even need help.
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Also, there will be no new race, profession, or new region with these larger Feb/March releases.
Can we expect this stuff later in 2013?
Cheers.
I suppose improving the core game now takes priority, and later on we should get new content (= new zones) more often.
Look at it this way: how many of the current zones are a bit forgottable/ repetitive? For most of them, you explore, grind basic heart quests, fight countless enemies with basic AI, 100% complete the zone, and leave. And for the players that don’t even like to fully explore a map, there’s not even motivation for them to go to any those zones to explore them (if anything, they rush through them for the sake of dungeons).
To many players, many of the GW2’s current maps are still “new content” or content that is not fully realized. Making the existing zones more fun and diverse, and adding “quests”/ hunts/ adventures with (maybe) new stories and, certainly, cool rewards (like the exotics needed for legendaries, but not only that) means a lot of new content and a refreshing take on already existing maps. To many players, they would explore the old maps as if they were new, and to the remaining playerbase, they would explore those maps for the first time.
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^
1 = Dungeons;
2 = Dungeons;
3 = PvP;
4 = PvP;
5 = Mindless hack-and-slash zerg;
6 = A single example;
See where the problem is Mirta? Tell me, for someone who doesn’t cares about dungeons – or cares about dungeons but also a lot about general pve, what is the reason to coordinate with other players in an attempt to be successful while exploring the world? Or while completing the storyline? Or while, you know, simply doing adventures?
If I pick a random map in GW2 and start doing “adventures”, how many party-driven adventures do I have? And the answer is: a few champions here and there. Yeah, not very exciting.
If I waste a lot of money on trait building and equipments to create my dream party-support build, which content can I do while adventuring through the world, that demands that?
GW2 is pretty cool at making solo players fighting together (dynamic events), but the devs have overlooked content with real party coordenation and strategy. Sure, they have designed dungeons for that, but dungeons are but a few maps in a few corners of the world: the meat of the pve game is exploring the world, doing adventures, “seeing the world changing”, following the stories. And it’s a very lonely experience. It’s something you don’t do with a group of friends, just alone or with a band of foreigners that groups together as fast as it disbands. They could very well be NPCs instead of players, it wouldn’t have made much of a difference (or would they? henchmen/ heroes in GW1 were pretty cool).
It’s cool that the game gives you the “option” to play solo. It’s sad, however, that the game does not gives you the (meaningful) option to play in a party.
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We’ll be releasing more information on our blog in the next couple weeks that details our plans for first half of 2013, including more details on the kind of stories and features you’ll see in the January, February and March releases.
Is the January’s update at the end of the month?
Did Colin mean that January’s update will be smaller than normal, or simply that it’ll not be as massive as Feb/ March’s updates? There’s a difference here.
Because all the big updates we’ve been getting monthly should also be “relatively smaller” to whatever big is coming Feb/ March, according to his words, so this month’s “relatively smaller” patch could very well be as big as wintersday/ halloween/ etc.
Oh yes, this lack of party-driven content also leads to a lot of support builds becoming pointless. Most of pve’s builds have degenerated into DPS + some defense, or DPS + Magic Find, because there’s no reason to pick anything else unless you want to grind or explore at a slower pace.
One of the reasons for why the monthly content updates have been so fun, it’s because they actually make people group together. Now if only Anet could spread this kind of content all over pve….
The chat is usually more lively when players have trouble with something and need someone else’s help.
EDIT:
@Urthona,
But why not have content balanced for both type of players, instead of just a portion of them? Afterall, dungeons and champions do exist, so Anet’s intentions are there. It just so happens that there’s too much for solo, and too little for groups.
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The best part of GW2 is that it isn’t designed to force player cooperation. This is also the worst part of GW2. For better or for worse, it’s the design choice that sets the game apart. I try to appreciate it for what it is.
Yes, yes, very much yes! Good thing someone mentioned the other side of the coin.
There’s no adventure to do with your friends in GW2, unless you enjoy dungeons. There’s no story missions like GW1. There’s no party-driven content outside of dungeons or pvp. There’s no means to stick with a friend and both follow a story or explore the world in a way that does not waste our time.
There’s no obstacles to overcome with a cooperative group through general pve, outside of a few scattered champions.
By giving you the option of playing solo, GW2 takes from you the option of doing party content. At first, GW2’s general pve seems to appeal to both types of players, but in the end, it handles everything to solo players and forgets players who love parties.
I feel forced to NOT joining a party because doing somebody else’s story instance won’t advance mine’s, because exploring the world with other players is a mess, as they have done different hearts than me, and because it’s not even needed, so most players will simply ignore their party – if they even join in one – if they ever get an invite.
I my opinion, the elementalist is the most well-designed profession in this game because of its attunement system. Having to use four weaponsets instead of two – and more importantly, having to rely on every one of them to survive, simply works so well. It also creates a larger cap between bad and good players, and it’s a profession that does not need annoying stealth/ clone mechanics to do what it does, nor an excessive amount of disruptive bubbles, which makes it actually fun to play against.
The big disadvantage of playing an elementalist, is the very design of most other classes: that it’s sometimes frustrating to work harder than your foes to get the same results, especially when after playing piano with our keyboard, we are suddenly taken down by a 6k+ backstab out of nowhere, or a 8k+ Mind Wrack also out of nowhere, at the middle of a battle or something. At least Engineers can adapt between simpler or more complex builds.
Overall, an elementalist avoids being overly simplistic and overly annoying like most of GW2’s classes. Once dueling is out, the funniest duels will be between elementalists, IMO.
Roles are not only unclear, but highly inacessible. The amount you have to pay to experiment with traits multiple times to get an idea of what is stronger or what fits you mostly, and all the exotic pieces of equipment you must obtain for a single, specific build is crazy and a huge grind-fest. This makes most players invest on one and one role only, mostly a general role that can be adaptable to any situation, with some preference to offensive power to kill quickly, and some detriment to party support because you won’t need it for most of pve.
Money sink in build-making is a mistake, IMO. I don’t mind money sinks, but when they go degrade the quality of major aspects of the game, then something is wrong.
I completely disagree. It seems to me like this “writer” is an avid WoW player who bought this game with the idea that this is (just another) WoW clone with better graphics. Well, it is not, nor should it ever be.
Wrong, the writer was well aware that GW2 tried to innovate the genre. He’s just honestly saying that some of those changes have had a more negative impact than both players and devs have expected.
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Lmao, where’s my patch for insane thief and warrior burst damage?
Good god. I should just roll a warrior, shouldn’t I? Can you just tell me that- flat out.
The Shatter Mesmer build is arguable one of the strongest – if not the strongest build for pvp at the moment. Why would you want to reroll a Warrior, who falls way behind mesmers, thieves, guardians and bunker eles at spvp? Or do you enjoy the challenge? :P
That’s why I said they should look into the mobs AI before doing any pvp splits of the sort. PvE’s balance REALLY needs an AI that can counter all 8 professions equally well. Would love to see a dev’s reply on that, although I’m not sure if pve devs read the pvp forums.
And yes, Mesmers should get some utility with pve in mind, for a change. Mantra of Pain having an AoE effect? Or redesign Signets with pve’s environment in mind as much as pvp’s.
thieves need to and will get addressed as well. i mean they dont have to, but then people will just stop playing spvp.
If there is something in a game that is making people stop playing it, then that issue should be fixed.
Well, their utility is not very good for PvE, honestly, but Mesmers are not “weak” there at all. In fact, I feel like they are fine.
The problem with PvE is the monster’s AI that makes builds like Guardian’s or Warrior’s GS, among others, insanely overpowered. The foes do not dodge, they do not leave, nothing. They might counter a Mesmer by attacking clones, but they’ll never counter a Warrior by dodging or a Guardian by kiting them or getting out of their symbols.
Although pvp/ pve splits are important for some situations, I think they should be prevented as much as possible, unless there’s no other way. For example, confusion is already split between pvp and pve.
Monster’s AI and lack of party-driven content is what greatly restricts professions and builds in general PvE, not nerfs.
I like how you make it seem that 6-18 stacks of might are SUPER OP, when many other classes generate that might pretty easily too.
(…)
Man, I didn’t know immobilize was such a special skill that seemingly mesmer should never have compared to every other class, especially as it’s based off a very unreliable clone jumping skill that has 600 range/barely any cripple to begin with to even start it, great skill there.
No one is saying that 6-18 stacks of might is overpowered. In fact, I even said that I think mesmers should have a specialized might/boon-stacking/ spreading build.
What people are saying, is that one of the most overpowered builds in the meta has been directly buffed with extra 6-18s seconds of might. There’s a difference here.
Other classes can generate might, but they must dedicate their builds for it. They must give away something for that. For example, an elementalist must sacrifice their bunker traits (which are the traits for their current best builds) for might-stacking.
A shatter mesmer does not need to give away anything. It was already one of the top-tier tournament builds before, and it’s even stronger now.
Immobilize is cool, but I never said that made them overpowered neither. I’ve said that having a LOT of options in the same build made them too strong, immobilize being only one of the many of those options. I was talking about the sum of all parts, not just a single detail.
It’s not an agenda against mesmers, it’s an agenda against overpowered builds that are dominating the meta.
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What happened to let the meta develop, btw?
-100b warriors were considered hugely OP until people learned how to deal with them.
-BS thieves were considered hugely OP until people learned how to (partly) deal with them.
-Shatter mesmers are considered hugely OP but instead of letting the community figure out how to counter them they will immediately get nerfed instead?Something seems out of place here. Yes, all these classes (and several others) have access to huge bursts but why does it seem like mesmers are always the ones getting the short stick when it comes to nerfs?
First, HB Warriors are only strong when the opponent doesn’t knows how to play. Which makes them underpowered in competitive pvp, and overpowered against the mindless AI from PvE. If anything, Warriors need to be buffed for pvp (even if at the cost of a small nerf to HB, IMO), and for PvE, it’s the AI that needs to be fixed.
Second, BS Thief is probably still BS. :P The differene between a thief and a warrior, is that you can counter a warrior with almost anything, while countering stealthed a burst is quite a different situation. IMO, BS needs to be nerfed, especially if Anet wants non-thieves and non-mesmers to have glass cannon builds too.
Finally, shatter mesmers have been overpowered because they could already burst high and still bring a lot of control and party support. Portal, their elites, their excellent self-survival (blur, distortion, stealth, clones, evasion teleports), confusion, immobilize, chaos storm, etc, while still bursting high. It’s not about letting the meta grow: the meta already developed and showed to everyone how this mesmer build was overpowered. What made things worse, is that this build was directly buffed last patch. Now, in addition to everything this build already does, it can still get 6-18 stacks of might AND perma-vigor. Yeah.
A Shatter Mesmer is pretty much a god in today’s meta. I think HB and BS burst should be toned down (and Mind Wrack too). But a Shatter Mesmer build offers a lot more than (an insanely strong burst). It can stand its ground due to its excellent defenses, it can (now) burst even higher and evade twice as often, and can make their entire party instant-win with mass stealth/ quickness and (now) might-spreading.
I think mesmers should have a might-stacking/ spreading build, but it should be for a different, unrelated build. Maybe move Shattered Strength to another traitline that is not used by the current shatter builds. Or maybe making it a major, and giving the player the choice between it and persona. Or something.