Kerigolas, I’m running the same weapon setup, though I’m currently at 10/0/10/30/20. I just can’t get past that horrible second tier for Valor, so I don’t see that line as a good payoff. I am toying around with going 15/0/5/30/20 and see how good the vulnerability is from extended/enlarged symbols. Then again, with so many people saying how good 30/30 is for Valor/Honor, I might give it a go one of these days.
It seems with the changes to Mighty Blow, it acts just like Leap of Faith: you create an area effect if you jump from a field, so even if your foe leaves the field you’ll still get the area effect.
Considering the sword is probably our best 1v1 weapon, I’d say the sword/torch combo could conceivably obtain the same level of area conditions that the GS can. You lose the symbol to cause vulnerability, but if you’re fast enough I think you can effectively utilize the Radiance line’s justice traits. To me, the GS is just the AoE version of the 1handed sword, with a bit more power in sacrifice of utility. If you look at the guardian weapon skills, that’s what all of our tradeoffs are about: utility and damage.
A hammer has much, much more utility than the GS due to synergies with other skills, but won’t kill as fast (depending on how strong the enemy is). However, with a large group you will kill it faster due to spamming area retaliation/might. The extreme of this, of course, is mace/focus and staff, though the latter is ridiculously awesome when in a large group. Each of our weapons does fairly well if played right, though there are some inconsistencies and missed opportunities in the skills. I’d love it if the guardian had more symbols and another type of field, for instance.
Also, anyone ever go with a zerging mob, hit empower, and then immediately cast your buffed justice? Rather hilarious to see everything in sight catch fire. =D
Does permeating wrath work for anyone? It might be because I use 2handed weapons, but there didn’t seem to be any indication that any burning I was applying was to an area. Does justice only activate on one target, or does it activate on the attack, meaning the hammer’s blast attack would already accomplish an area burn?
Hey guys, Sorta new player here, recently rolled a Guardian, and I’ve ALWAYS loved being a 2H Hammer-Class player (LOVED the Bear Shaman in AoC and the Warrior-Priest in WAR), the Guardian fits my playstyle perfectly! However, I can’t seem to put together a good trait build, or one that makes sense. I see alot of you guys talking great things and I was wondering if you guys would be kind enough to link a solid Hammer Build, as I STILL can’t find one with PvE in mind.
I tried looking for what “Brutaly” was mentioning with “altruistic healing and empowering might” but I cant put together anything that synergizes well, or the Spirit Weapons Build (Which is pretty self explanitory until AFTER getting the Spirit Hammer & Sword, then what?), or even the Burning Retaliation Build sounds good, but I have no idea where to even start with that.
Im sorry to derail like this, but with all the Hammer talk, I figure this may be the best place to ask.
I really appreciate it guys!
I’m running a 10/0/10/30/20 atm, with increased symbol radius and duration, -20% 2handed weapon cooldown. This is the most important part of the build, which lets me chain area retaliation and protection. If you’re using the hammer, remember that you trade off burst damage for group utility (kinda =p ). The GS can strip conditions, but the hammer can apply much more in terms of boons with its blast attack.
I find consecrations to be the best thing to use with hammers, so I’ll run Purging Flames, Wall of Reflection, and Save Yourselves. This gives me a nice protection boost off the bat, so I can survive a bit longer until my prot/retaliation chain gets going. I also find Renewed Focus to be a lifesaver, giving me a long time of invulnerability and letting me spread out my virtues without having to worry about cooldowns.
I think the most important part of using the hammer, though, is know how to switch weapons at the right time and having a good secondary set. I love the mace/focus combo to switch to when I’m feeling a little pressured. I lose the area protection, but I get 4 blocks, a mass blind, mass retaliation, and a nice bit of healing to go with it.
I’ve thought about going 0/20/0/30/20, which, if you use the signet to heal, can give you an incredible 5 condition removal when combined with Absolute Resolve (Resolve active also removes 3 conditions. To me, the hammer is a bit less aggressive than the greatsword in that you can afford to not deal the most damage in the shortest amount of time. Align yourself right, use your utilities at the right time, and earn the thanks of your allies as you turn them all into prickly tanks. =D
lotsa words
I agree wholeheartedly with this, though I still wish #3 and #5 could be tweaked a bit more. I’d actually love it if wards got a minor trait to boost their effectiveness, kinda like how line of warding reflected projectiles as well during beta if traited. I think glacial heart would’ve been better off being applied if someone runs into one of our wards as well as knockdown, rather than a hammer critical.
I think these are the changes that were referred to
Doubtful, since the thread was about the actual hammer abilities, and not traits. I think this was done as a stopgap, giving the shield a bit of a boost while giving hammer users a nice perk for now. It’s not like the 2nd tier of Valor is that good, anyway (imo).
I don’t think, given the criticism of the hammer in the guardian community, that Anet would have this fast of a turnaround on hammer and only give us this. It doesn’t address anything that holds the hammer back from being a go-to weapon for guardians. I think the timer needs to be lowered to ~30s, though…45 seems meaningless when you consider how easy it is to remove conditions at times. I’d rather have a hammer crit create a glacial field to combo through, and not simply add a freeze condition. Or, a new symbol that causes slow inside of it, mayhaps? =p
Did I say it didn’t require any changes? I’ve already detailed a couple of times how I feel the hammer could be changed to be better. I just don’t automatically discount a weapon just because it’s not the maximum damage potential I can muster.
Do I want a faster chain attack? Yes.
Do I want more utility from #3 and #5? Yes.
You completely missed the entire point of my post, which is: while the hammer is NOT as good as the greatsword, it is still worthwhile to bring along for group utility. You’re painting the weapons in black and white, while I’m saying it’s shades of grey. Everyone in this thread has pretty much agreed that the hammer needs a buff/tweak to make it more viable as an option. But I think it’s unfair to call the weapon worthless and to imply that one should just stick to the greatsword. That was my point.
(edited by Draeka.5941)
Well, there is a distinct gap between “useless” and “unable to solo anything and everything while flossing”, which is what you’re forgetting. =p
The hammer is still a good enough weapon, one I’d take over a sword/anything combo without hesitation. I’m glad they’re going to revamp it a bit, as it does need it to put it on par with some of our more powerful weaponry…but don’t dismiss it just because our greatsword is ridiculously powerful. It’s wonderful in groups, though it lacks some utility solo. I destroy a lot of weapons that I don’t like to use, but it doesn’t mean they aren’t still effective.
TL,DR: Hammer still good, but others are better. Just because something needs a buff doesn’t mean it isn’t already effective.
The tooltip only changes for recharge time, but if you do a hard count you’ll find another second or so added to Purging Flames. It’d be nice if it updated with traits, though, aye.
Bar none, hammer. Nothing lets me run wild with damage, CC, mass boons and launch enemies who look at me funny. Most hilarious weapon you could ever use for WvW, imho.
For secondary, I prefer mace/focus. Partly because it allows me some breathing room if my hammer bit off more than it could chew, and partly because the they synergize so well. The symbol from the mace can be utilized by the #5 focus for retaliation, allowing me to continue to support my team even if my damage output drops and CC is virtually nonexistent.
I dabble with the scepter more than the sword, shield or torch, but that’s just because I don’t think they offer enough utility. I use the greatsword the most since it’s the one weapon that keeps dropping for me, but I do enjoy using a staff whenever a good one drops. Nothing beats a nice funnel point when you’re using a staff.
If anything, all that really requires tweaking would be a slight attack speed increase on the chain skill, allow usage of #2 while moving, and either the #3 or #5 move. I say either of those two because making one more beneficial to normal fights would drastically increase the utility of the hammer. The chains could be likened to the greatsword #5 so you could pull them back, or maybe #5 is affected by symbol traits. Being able to make a ring of warding that heals me and lasts longer? Sign me up!
If you are more of a backline fighter, you can trait to cast consecrations from afar, allowing you to support your allies much better than the small ranged shouts. Also, the aforementioned fire field means that anyone inside of it will be creating boons like a madman, supporting your group even more. It’s a phenomenal skill for caster guardians, though it by no means is worse than its shout counterpart.
If you use fire fields, or utilize it with other traits you can keep an enemy burning for almost the entire fight. Add in allies causing burning, and, well…now you have a nice 10% bonus to damage. =)
I think it ranks alongside the sword as our least party-centric weapon, whereas I’d say the hammer and staff are the greatest. The only area affect that you can use for the group is condition removal, and other than that you just have your blind. True, you do have a symbol, but the GS/S do not grant a good amount of bonuses to the group.
The mace/focus can give area retaliation w/ the #2 and #5 combo, and the hammer can give a mass boon depending on what field you’re standing inside. A chaos field gives armor, fire might, water healing, light retaliation, and dark poison (I think, can’t remember atm). This, on top of your symbol that grants protection. If you trait with Writ of Exaltation, Writ of Persistence, and 2-Handed Mastery (the full Honor line), you can have a perma-protection on nearby allies, have huge symbols, and can pop a mass boon every four seconds. If you roll with Writ of the Merciful over Persistence, and you are with an elementalist, then you can heal with your symbols and have them cast a water field for even more frontline healing.
The hammer is just fine solo, but like the staff it really shines when you’re in a group. So if you’re questing with a friend, I’d really suggest trying out a properly-traited hammer.
Hammer, meet enemy. Enemy, meet cliff. Say hello to the bottom for me.
Almost lvl 80, and I haven’t even hit up a lvl 70 zone, still chilling around the lvl 40-60 zones while exploring. Remember, you get a ton of experience from simply completing a map, so I don’t see any reason to “grind” mobs when I can easily level up 3 or 4 times from an area waaaay lower than my maximum level. Plus, when I’m done with the area I can head on back to a crafting station to gain another level or two from discoveries. I may not be getting a lot of xp per kill in the lower zones, but I can still get good loot and the overall completion gives great xp.
If anything, I’m levelling too fast…I still haven’t gone outside of the Kryta/Shiverpeak areas yet!
Aye, boring but effective. Would like to see smite create an electrical field, even if it doesn’t become a symbol. Turning it into a symbol might conflict with the staff too much, but giving guardians another field to play with would help our utility. Btw, what is the effect when using a blast finisher in an electrical field? I know water heals, and fire gives might, but what about electricity?
Mace/focus is fantastic when paired with a 2handed weapon, most notably the hammer. The combination will give you great defensive capabilities to switch to when you’re about to get overwhelmed, while still providing your group with a good amount of support. Remember, you can use the focus #5 with the mace #2 symbol to give area retaliation, so the combo w/ a hammer means your group can have retaliation up almost the entire time!
Sure, the mace/focus combo won’t deal the most damage possible, but it’s still fun to use even as a primary when I’m slightly tired of launching enemies with my hammer. =D
Indeed. I love sending them flying with mighty blow, setting them on fire, and generally making many rugs from their hides to sell to those poor widows in the wars. Viva la centaurs!
=D
I love being able to enter a new zone and just run around, knowing that I’ll be alerted if I’m near something that’s going on. I’d rather run through a zone and be alerted to something I might want to see and take a detour, rather than running through the zone and hope I just pass by that one NPC that’ll lead me to whatever is going on. I enjoy exploring a zone without the risk of missing something cool…why make the cool stuff harder to see?
I think the trait that adds +90 toughness when using a shield could be raised to act as a %-based modifier, but yeah; think of the shield as you protecting your allies and not necessarily yourself first. Guardians already have plenty of traits to survive solo, so it’d make sense for the primary defensive off-hand to be more about others. Whether or not it’s effective is another thing entirely, but I think the skills ring true to its intended role.
I know, but that’s my point. =p
The wards from the weapons that we have now aren’t affected by any of our traits. If they were consecrations or symbols, then we could have further utility out of our trait line. I don’t want to see the line/ring of warding be adversely changed, but I think a tweak into symbol mechanics would be for the best.
Or, if they were consecrations, just think of how much faster you could cast the two wards if they were affected by both the -20% 2handed weapon cd and the consecration trait! =)
Problem with burning is that any changes to it would also affect Engineers and Elementalists…which means you’d then have to balance their abilities as well. So it’s either that or turn the Guardian burning into something else entirely, which probably isn’t something the devs are too keen on doing atm. They could, however, give us some more trait-based condition damage, or maybe a grandmaster trait to double all condition damage. Still, I consider burning more of a support boon for the rest of my group, covering up other conditions and letting me deal more damage to the affected target. So, given the innate problems with burning, I’d rather it stay as a support mechanism rather than morphed into some unholy aura of wtfbbqpwnage. =p
Greatsword is fine; just use the binding blades when you’re already engaged, so when they try to run you yank ’em back in.
Hammer: maybe they could make the ring into a symbol? I’d like to see Smite, for instance, made into another symbol. For having so many traits related to symbols, Guardian doesn’t have a whole lot of ‘em to work with. If you made this change, then the ring could be traited to heal and cause vulnerability; it doesn’t need anything else innate, though the burning would be nice.
Perhaps the devs could add a secondary effect to our “immovable barriers” in that it causes freezing if passed over? Freeze isn’t affected by stability, so that’d make people think twice about passing through; if they’re frozen for say 3s, it might not be worth it…you’d still catch up to them to knock em backwards with MB.
As for MB, I think the most it’d need would be either a stack of might or maybe cause a symbol to appear underneath wherever the enemy lands to cause fear in the surrounding enemies for a second or two; you know, so the MB’d enemy doesn’t get a chance to be affected, but those around him get scared off to give some more CC. Or, just add a few seconds of daze to the ability. The hammer already gets a blast attack, no need to give it another.
Someone doesn’t like the 10% extra damage on burning foes trait…
You can build for good condition damage, the only problem is that burns don’t stack in intensity—you’re better off going with bleeds. However, you can make a good “heal-bot” so to speak, if you trait properly so that others get your Resolve, your Resolve is better, or that you heal others through symbol activation. It’s not incredibly imposing, but if the rest of the group has enough protection and can dodge efficiently enough, it’ll keep your group up n’ running just fine.
Courage could be dropped another 5-10s, but that’d prolly just make it OP. Remember, a lot of what makes Courage great is the Grandmaster trait to give you stability and break stuns. I think they’re fine atm, considering they’re free skills.
They are running through it if they have stability active, that’s how all guardian area denial abilities operate.
Gah, forgot about stability =p
well we need something given tanking is kinda out of the picture
“Tanking,” in the traditional sense, aye…but I’m having a lot of fun cycling through my protection symbols, mass boons, blinds, CC’d to prevent it from even dealing damage. I’d rather “tank” by preventing damage instead of simply standing still and hoping my damage mitigation is high enough, and my healers are good enough. Makes things more skill-based and interesting, imho.
If I recall correctly, Champions aren’t affected by certain CC moves…or it might just be when they’re surrounded by people. That might be what you’re experiencing. The hammer #5 doesn’t last too terribly long (kinda wish it was a symbol, tbh), so sometimes if they don’t hit the line until two seconds in, it’ll disappear by the time they’re back up. As far as I can tell, if it isn’t either of these things then it’s prolly a bug.
As others have said above, symbol area+duration and two-handed skill recharge -20% can give you and your allies a permanent protection bonus. If you’re worried about the first three seconds of the engagement, just run “Protect Yourselves” to get that and a nice regen bonus as well. I don’t think the heal from the symbols is worth it, tbh…I’d rather make sure people don’t lose 800 health than give them a paltry 150/s (if you’re not spec’d for healing, that is).
Hammer is not the fastest killer, but it’s definitely a team-player when you utilize the proper utilities and traits. Just be sure to have enough armor/toughness, as otherwise you’ll be too squishy to rely on the protection alone. You might want to also look into running with the traits to blind foes when activating Justice, or even vulnerability caused by symbols. But realize that hammer, while one would think best for 1v1, actually shines best in a group. Never underestimate mass boons and control. =)