There may always be a meta, but in GW1, the meta kept changing, even in PvE (remember SABWAY?). That hasn’t happened in GW2 PvE.
Changing meta is healthy for a game. It means people are constatntly re-evaluating what is best and adapting. GW2 PvE meta is stagnant.
GW1 was out for how long when Sab came along?
Gw2 has been out a year. That’s it.
And how many different metas showed up in the first year of GW1? A heck of a lot. SABWAY wasn’t even the most popular meta setup, it was one of dozens.
I think a bigger issue is that, as a necro, using your class mechanic turns off a traitline for the duration. Never mind that we are the only class that can be made immune to a boon.
Self-healing in DS should be limited, I definitely agree. The Regen boon, bare minimum, needs to do something for you while in DS by default.
There may always be a meta, but in GW1, the meta kept changing, even in PvE (remember SABWAY?). That hasn’t happened in GW2 PvE.
Changing meta is healthy for a game. It means people are constatntly re-evaluating what is best and adapting. GW2 PvE meta is stagnant.
i think he just said that theres actualy no defrence in difficulty between fighting as zerker and fighting naked :/ wich is prety much true save for the damage loss
Bingo! Though the loss of damage will increase difficulty some as now the enemy has more times to attack that you need to avoid. Not a huge increase, though.
@Stof: Try reading again. There is no issue at all with glass cannon builds. The problem is that what should be High Risk/High Reward is instead Low Risk/High Reward. If risk went up in PvE, I’m pretty sure most of the people would be quite satisfied. There are other changes that need to be done as well, namely to condition and boon use in PvE, but generally increasing the risk is the biggest part.
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I think the majority of Eles are united under the banner “Diamond Skin ain’t really worth it for the most part”
Pretty sure everyone is under the banner “Diamond Skin is not good for the game right now.” Either too useless or too powerful with nothing in between.
Enought of a sign to hint to the fact theres a problem.
yes and its not the armor….
The armor never was the issue. The issue is that the risk related to using said armor isn’t actually there.
Zerker gear isn’t an issue. It never was. What is an issue is that nothing but zerker has any importance in PvE. If you’re not running Zerker/Assassin’s, you’re not needed. You blew a large investment into mostly worthless stats.
Ah! Someone from that camp finally admitted it. This whole thing is about making WvWers who spent a bunch on ascended sentinels gear not have to respec for dungeons and still feel powerful. I suggested this was possibly the motivation before and nobody on that side of the debate would agree, but you finally did, thanks.
Considering I am almost entirely a PvE player, I can already prove your assumption wrong. Yes, I do occasional WvW, but those times are when I want a change of pace, so your entire premise is completely backwards. The current PvE environment is toxic, having not been balanced around active defense (other than the one-shots of bosses/agony in Fractals, where your defenseive stats simply don’t matter at all). Wearing Berserker/Assassin’s gear and doing well is no indication of skill right now. By design, glass cannons are a high risk/high reward playstyle, but PvE design did not really account for active defense, so the risk is unnaturally low for that playstyle.
Perhaps if you realize that what we are asking for is harder content, you might get past your “everyone else is bad and just whining” idea.
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If I remember correctly, the “-100% duration” was what it and Berserker’s Stance were supposed to be to begin with, but ANet never bothered changing them to that when it was clear (day 1 of their respecitve current functions) that they instead gave total immunity.
Not saying if their current function is fine or not, just saying that they weren’t originally intended to be total immunity, at least as far as what ANet announced at the time.
I’ve often wondered if the sceptre could be made more interesting/balanced by reducing the bleeds applied by it’s autoattack, making the other skills on the weapon more visible/telegraphed, and adding additional bleeds to those instead to compensate. Ideally poison would be moved to a different skill as well, because it’s currently too easy and mindless to apply 3 different conditions (if traited for weakness) just with the autoattack.
Nobody uses Withering Precision. Especially since if you’re going 30 in Curses on a condition build, you just grab Lingering Curse instead (or Master of Corruption + Terror). Withering Precision is just terrible, not even worthy of adept level since the June patch.
@Chaith: Again, what skills are you referring to? The three marks all have unique (if incredibly similar) animations, though I do agree that which is being cast should be made more noticable. Grasping Dead, the necro does a huge point forward, and that is the only animation like that on a Scepter/X set.
I will grant you, for example, that Enfeebling Blood and Spinal Shivers have similar cast animations, but since they are impossible to use together without a weapon swap in between, that really shouldn’t matter.
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I agree, necros need better telegraphs.
So that we are all on the same page, which abilities do you think need better telegraphs? Other than the difference between Mark of Blood, Chillblains, and Putrid Mark, (and the different wells) every necro skill is pretty well telegraphed and unique. The wells, you should respond to all of them the same anyway (leave the well), so that’s not really a valid concern.
What is even the zerker issue…
After reading dozens of pages and endless posts, I still have no idea. I get the issues with the mobs lack of tactics, AI, skills. I get the issues with many of the bosses being a joke. But I’m still 100% lost on why zerker gear is a (real) issue.
Zerker gear isn’t an issue. It never was. What is an issue is that nothing but zerker has any importance in PvE. If you’re not running Zerker/Assassin’s, you’re not needed. You blew a large investment into mostly worthless stats.
That is the issue that these threads are addressing. Something must be done to make other stat combos relevant in PvE, whether it’s times when they are simply the superior choice (Karka are a decent example, with high armor, low health, favoring condition damage), or bumping up the skill required to go 5 glass cannon successfully (which also will require semi-randomized attack routines from mobs/bosses, otherwise, players memorize the new rotations and this shows up again). Faster attacking enemies would also increase the value of Weakness, Protection, Confusion, and Retaliation. In all of these cases, the solution is re-working enemies.
It’s not even affected by Bloodthirst or vampiric, and also, Vampiric Rituals +bloodthirst doesn’t affect the siphon from wells…just throwing it out there
Bloodthirst does affect the active portion, though.
Heh, I always liked the third option I believe, “honorless gladium”. Also, “sorcerous shaman”. Story for Charr is by far better written and more entertaining than whole Living Story so far
Better written, I can argue with. Better delivered, oh yeah. The Living Story has been delivered pretty badly thus far, though they are improving.
Still, Charr personal story has fantastic writing and delivery.
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Keep in mind, my comments on things like that are assuming the ICD gets removed so the skill is actually useful.
I feel it works better with the “when hit” passive as it gives us at least some defense against the sport of “necro ball”. We don’t really have huge issues with sustain when we can act anyway. It may be sub-par, but it isn’t unreasonably bad. If we get stunned or dazed, though, we completely lose any sustain. The “when hit” passive at least gives us some defense when we are most vulnerable.
I love how people in this thread apparently don’t understand that the OP is not calling for any nerf to Berserker gear, rather changing PvE enemies to increase the risk associated with glass cannon builds. Truly skilled players could still complete the content quickly (perhaps slightly slower than they do now, but still faster than anyone else), but it would require even better play on their parts than it does now and it would be risky to go with a full glass cannon team. However, a mixed team would become significantly more efficient.
Almost everyone screaming about how this would hurt the game likely falls into the category of people who can do the easy content in full glass cannon setups right now, but aren’t actually that skilled. Personally, I don’t see any issue with full DPS group speed runs requiring serious skill (right now, they really don’t take as much as people claim) and other setups becoming important for efficient, reliable runs.
Specialization yielding better results may not have been their aim (hence the parenthetical note regarding it), but it is an undeniable fact: Specialists yield better results than generalists. This is pretty much impossible to change. To do so would result in one overbearing build that does everything better than anyone else. That is the only way it can occour where specialists don’t yield better results. This isn’t even an issue in GW2. The issue is that everyone specializing in the exact same thing yields the best results.
Distributed share of responsibilities is not anti-specialist either. It means you have people specializing in different things with some overlap. The point of the Dodge and locked healing skill slot were so that the basic functions that everyone needs (defense against big hits, especially the one-shots from bosses, and healing back the damage they do take) don’t require someone else to do it for them. It was made to work with the fact that you can’t always get the perfectly balanced party, and relying on a party for open-world content is stupid.
A varied group of specialists, ideally, would be the strongest composition. We already see it in PvP, as you have specific roles people fulfill. The difference between GW2 and other MMO’s is that those roles can be filled by members of any class (maybe not well, such as a bunker Thief, but it is possible). In PvE, this isn’t the case. If you don’t specialize in DPS, you don’t actually have a role. Increasing the risk related to going pure glass cannon would make the other setups significantly more important and encourage diversity in groups.
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Besides, this is a purely PVE discussion, what does sPVP or WvW have to do with it?
Because PvP and WvW prove that defensive geared builds require as much player’s skill as offensive builds do to pull it of.
Which again points towards the ineffective PvE enemy design.
defensive gear is fine in wvw and pvp. but that doesnt mean using defensive gear in pve needs any skill.
and this is how bad pve players are in wvw
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mCaEGzBkEuo
how can he even win 1vsx in wvw after playing PvE and berserker for so long?+ PvE monsters are probably smarter and better compared to the majority of wvw players.
So, you find a video of a single condition necro (who’s moves and video comments suggest he is no stranger to PvP, even if WvW isn’t his norm) fighting a number of people that lack condition cleanse to prove that PvE Berserker’s are all skilled? Anyone else see an issue with this logic?
A well-reasoned analysis, but I disagree that player skill has no part of this discussion. Objectively, the “zerker” playstyle has a higher skillcap because the active defenses must be deployed correctly (type, timing, placement) to gain the benefits of front-loaded DPS. Failure to correctly use the active defense in a highly skillful manner typically results in the defeat of the player and/or team (and corresponding loss of money and time).
By contrast, more defensive playstyles have a lower skill requirement because there is greater room for error in the execution of the available active defenses. This is not an elitist statement, or an insult to lower skilled players. It is an objective fact, and frankly a positive testament to the game’s design that all content can be completed by players of varying skill levels.
But it is a basic tenant of game design that higher skill should be rewarded. Lowering the skillcap — or raising the skill floor — eliminates the fun of getting better at the game.
This is why I disagree with your premise that there is a problem with the Berserker meta. Nerfing Berserker gear or raising the effectiveness of defensive playstyles lowers the skillcap, making the game less rewarding for skillful play. Currently there is positive correlation between higher skilled play and player reward (measured in any number of metrics, including gold/hr and time to complete content). To reduce or eliminate that correlation by lowering the skillcap would be a significant mistake, in my opinion.
This doesn’t make sense really. With zerker runs you bypass and negate enemy mechanics through active defenses. So you do not have to deal with what the mob ai may do. With a more defensive build you are responding accordingly to enemy attacks. That is the mob actually has a opportunity to react to you.
So how is it possible to have a higher skill cap when in most cases mobs do not have a chance to fully carry out their attacks against zerker builds? To quote the OP:
“Active defense: Enemies need to make so many moves before they get through active defense. The faster an enemy dies, the less moves they make. The less moves they make, the less likely they are to go through your active defense. With this in mind, it is very easy to do so much damage that an enemy dies before they can go through your active defense.”
In essence zerker builds would have a lower skill cap since the mobs aren’t even fighting back. Its more so player vs a target that doesn’t get a chance to damage you.
…
If you truly believe that Zerk is the ‘lesser’ skilled between the two types, then we can’t really have a discussion. That is so far removed from reality that I cannot even comprehend how someone could think that.
You have hopefully seen the video of the tank specs doing Arah, without ever evade rolling? This is somehow more skillful than Zerk specs clever use of evades, and other defenses to avoid damage?
Facetanking is more skillful now than timing evasion?
I dont’ even….
I’m willing to bet a majority of the “skilled berserker” players wouldn’t survive long at all in PvP or WvW. There are legitimately skilled players that use Berserker gear, that I won’t deny. The majority of them, though, aren’t as good as they claim they are. Dodging well-telegraphed, infrequent attacks is downright simple compared to facing opponents that actually can put out pressure, may bait your active defenses, and will likewise actually avoid your own big attacks.
Again, the gear isn’t the problem. Enemy design is, as there simply is not enough risk in PvE for the reward you get from pure Zerker.
The envisioned scenario is a combination of players geared for DPS, Control, and Support being the optimal group for clearing dungeons.
I’ve quoted your mistake for you. This is not the scenario anet envisioned when designing a no trinity game. This is not the scenario I envisioned when I was told this is a no trinity game.
The “no trinity” was in refrence to tank/healer/DPS classes that plagues every other MMO. ANet has actually stated several times that they want a “new” trinity of “support, control, and damage.” The difference is that, unlike in other MMO’s, these roles are not restricted to particular classes. Any character can fulfill any of these roles, or even combine them (though specialization yields better results). That is how the game was intended and where the whole “play how you want” philosophy comes from. Given that the Berserker meta (basically everyone DPS with maybe some support, generally lacking Control) doesn’t exist anywhere but PvE, it is clearly not an issue with the gear itself, but the challenges faced.
Building up enough lf to just get into DS for a cheap ‘block’ was a matter of three hits with autoattack.
When arguing for changes like that, please don’t focus solely on one format of the game, unless you want to see split mechanics for PvE and PvP. The proposed revert was arguably more broken in PvP than useful in PvE, so to weight it this way, and achieving some sort of middle ground would require either a PvP/PvE split people do not like or a revamp of some mechanics rather than going back to something that was bad at its core.
Requires a minimum of 4 hits from Staff, 7 hits from dagger to build up the 10% life force you need to enter death shroud. Scepter and Axe can’t build life force at all on the auto, and Scepter has the hardest time generating life force of any weapon (one skill, 3% per condition on the target, completely worthless if they cleanse at the right time).
As for it being “broken” in PvP, no. It really wasn’t. So it could absorb an Eviscerate, big whoop. Every other class has another button they can press for the same effect, ours just happens to be our class mechanic and doesn’t prevent CC, conditions, or other debuffs (or on-hit triggers). If it was actually broken, a lot more people would have been complaining about it.
When DS absorbed all direct damage from a single hit, it drastically raised the skill cap for fights involving a necro. Is the Necro in Death Shroud/has he not been in it for a while? Don’t use your massive hits. Wait until he leaves it, then immedietly strike. Bait it out, perhaps by doing something to draw his Fear. If you are the necro, do you want to use death shroud to absorb pressure, absorb spikes, or use its skills? Since the overflow introduction (which is buggy), necros can’t use it to block damage (and only damage) from a big hit (relevant in both PvE and PvP) and a necro’s opponent has no reason to worry about the necro negating his big hit. The play/counterplay level dropped significantly.
I wouldn’t say stealth being a replacement for evade. But last time I checked s/d thief has an evade skill. A heal that also gives evade. I dunno others evade/invul/vigor/block skills as I’m still leveling my thief but I know there are at least 2 evades.
S/D, D/D, and Shortbow all have evades on weapon skills. Withdraw and Roll for Initiative also are evade skills. Factor in Feline Grace (base 3 dodges instead of 2) and pretty easy access to perma-vigor and it’s not difficult to see where the perma-dodge thief came from. Still, this thread isn’t about thief defenses. It’s about the fact that, other than the two base dodges, Necros have no means of negating a boss’s one-shot attack (since Blind is worthless against them 90% of the time).
When on bucket duty, I just run ground targeted wells and Well of Blood. Works very well, in my experience.
That and Battle Roar (I’m Charr) let me directly support my party while I’m running up top.
If you cannot damage an Elementalist 1k – 2k damage, you deserve to lose.
Please note, if the Elementalist goes 30 in Earth to get this, they sacrifice all damage, healing power and/or evasive arcana.
This.
As an Elementalist, trust me, it doesn’t take long for this immunity to ware down. After the first few attacks most Elementalists will be below threshold and susceptible to conditions again. As Otaur said above, if you can’t do 1k – 2k damage, chances are you won’t be winning anyway.
Dealing that much damage isn’t difficult, even in a condition build. Keeping them from healing it all back as fast or faster than you can deal it is, especially since they can’t be poisoned for that healing debuff.
If that ele has enough heals and +healing power to quickly heal to over 90% again then he won’t do any damage, especially because he already wasted 30 traits in earth. And if he didn’t spec for healing besides diamond skin he won’t do any noteworthy damage either and won’t be able to heal up quickly after falling below the threshold.
Correct, which makes it a static situation that goes absolutely nowhere because neither party can actually do anything to the other. What’s even worse is that it is limited solely to only working against one or two builds and is a wasted trait for all other opponents. The trait is hugely binary and is horrid design. At least AR, the engineer can’t out-heal the incoming damage if he wants to keep the immunity, which makes it slightly better designed (still not a good solution, though).
BTW, the 200 healing power from 20 points in water magic is enough with Signet of Restoration (and auto-attacking) and the water attunement regen to out-heal a Carrion condition necro’s direct damage. It really doesn’t take much.
I suggest Mace for an additional mainhand option. Fitting, since it’s somewhat similar to a hammer used for a tool (by the way ANet, new skin idea too!)
If you cannot damage an Elementalist 1k – 2k damage, you deserve to lose.
Please note, if the Elementalist goes 30 in Earth to get this, they sacrifice all damage, healing power and/or evasive arcana.
This.
As an Elementalist, trust me, it doesn’t take long for this immunity to ware down. After the first few attacks most Elementalists will be below threshold and susceptible to conditions again. As Otaur said above, if you can’t do 1k – 2k damage, chances are you won’t be winning anyway.
Dealing that much damage isn’t difficult, even in a condition build. Keeping them from healing it all back as fast or faster than you can deal it is, especially since they can’t be poisoned for that healing debuff.
Thread necro!
But I am a Necromancer :P
Anyway just wanted to point out that we’ve started a thread in the balance forum and it would be worthwhile posting the best points from this comprehensive thread if we want changes made.
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/balance/PvX-Necromancer-Signet-of-Vampirism
The Necro forums, where Thread Necromancy is actually expected :p
But thanks for calling attention to that thread. Hopefully, discussing it there will at least get our concerns noticed by the devs.
Death Nova + Bone Minions gives pretty good poison (and weakness) uptime, but most power builds don’t want 30 in death magic.
How are you getting weakness from Death Nova+ Bone Minions?
If there is no pre-existing field where the Bone Minion detonates, the natural blast finisher combos with the Death Nova poison field for AoE weakness.
1 – All classes have a way to avoid insta-kills apart from their dodges, such as stealth, evasion, invulnerability, blocking. The necro is the only class that does not have access to a way to survive a huge damage spike.
Yes indeed. It’s well known that a stealthed thief is invulnerable and I routinely use C&D to soak up the dungeon bosses instant kill attacks.
Given that most of the instant-kill attacks are targetted, stealthing stops the boss from charging it if you were its target. Even for those that are AoE, thieves have a large number of Evade skills. Necros have 0.
I find it pretty unfair that half the proffesions can benefit from both precision + crit damage in one trait line while the other 4 can’t. I know nobody’s is same as the others but maybe it should.
The reason I did not incluse speed of shadows is because it is used in heavy DS builds quite a lot and QT pretty much the same, heavy burst dagger builds can benefit from it a lot, maybe it should be an adept.
Really? Speed of Shadows is highly outclassed by both Grandmasters, Near to Death, Unyielding Blast, and Vital Persistance for death shroud builds. It really is terrible.
Quickening Thirst is sometimes useful, but it’s still weak. Perhaps if they merged it with Dagger Mastery it would be a good minor (since most builds just use one dagger).
1. Isn’t anywhere close to Zerker damage output due to the multiplicitive nature of direct damage. Also, needs to be reasonably durable so that they can survive long enough for the conditions to actually work.
2. How is this relevant in 1v1 which is where the complaints are all based on?
3. Feasible, but reducing the rune duration bonus is silly.
lol? Do you have any idea?
Do you? My guess is that you haven’t actually run the math.
In PvE, using Exotic Dire armor, Runes of the Scavenger, rabid dagger off-hand, Ascended raibd scepter and all jewelry (trinkets are Dire/Rabid) + back piece, adding in Rare Veggie Pizza and a Grandmaster Tuning Crystal, 25 stacks of Sigil of Corruption and a Sigil of Bursting in a 30/30/0/10/0 build (running both Hemophilia and Lingering Curse) on my necro, the auto attack does about 1.2k damage over 8 seconds. These are numbers that are impossible to achieve in PvP.
Compare to any number of Berserker auto attacks that average 2-4k (and usually hit faster!).
But doing the same damage if not more over 10 seconds with unmitigated (via stats) damage, that are easily reapplied and stacked up from things like auto attacks AND relatively short cool downs with incredibly long durations.
So, what’s the cooldown on a berserker auto-attack? Mitigated by stats, perhaps, but they still hit harder, and, unlike conditions, you can’t cleanse them early to reduce it. When it takes me 2 attacks and another 9 seconds afterward to deal the same damage a berserker does in 1 attack instantly…
The 30-50 multiplier doesn’t even compare.
Up to +25% from vulnerability, likely +103% on a crit, various +5% and +10% boosts from traits and occasional runes, and that’s the PvP sutff (PvE/WvW goes higher). Yeah, it compares. It compares really, really well.
Then consider these condi power builds all spec into a defensive stats? Lol I’d agree that the tankyness would be valid IF it didn’t hit like a long lasting truck from the get go.
The tankyness is necessary. One, there is no Brserker equivalent for condition damage, so it’s literally not even an option. Two, the condition damage build has to be able to survive long enough for their conditions to work and get a kill. In a hypothetical “glass cannon condition” set, the condition user would be dead long before he would ever get a kill unless he outplayed his opponent to such a degree that he literally could win with anything.
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The thing that really needs to be changed in the necromancer traits is the fact that the Power line has Condition Duration, and the Condition Damage line has Precision… The Precision should be in the Power line and the Condition Duration should be in the Condition Damage line.
Won’t happen. Every trait line is one major stat (Power, Precision, Vitality, Toughness, plus the class mechanic one) and one secondary stat (condition duration, condition damage, boon duration, healing power, crit damage). I feel the stat distribution on necro trait lines is just fine anyway.
As for weak traits, I am sad to not see Speed of Shadows or Quickening Thirst on your list.
Can’t do that, Mad Queen. I unlocked it so I could create the Facts thread on it.
Now, I still want those skill points back, but…
sPvp:
1. Should not be as powerful as zerker while being tanky. – Solution: changes to Amulets and runes.
2. Less cleave/AoE Spam. – Solution: More Single target and disabling effects. (not immobilize)
3. shorter durations. – Solution: Nerf base duration, reduce rune bonus.
1. Isn’t anywhere close to Zerker damage output due to the multiplicitive nature of direct damage. Also, needs to be reasonably durable so that they can survive long enough for the conditions to actually work.
2. How is this relevant in 1v1 which is where the complaints are all based on?
3. Feasible, but reducing the rune duration bonus is silly.
Edit: and removing the icd doesn’t matter the heal comes after the damage how would a 8k spike be negated by that heal?
The 8k spike wouldn’t be negated, but if you survive, the effective damage was reduced. That is perfectly fine, in my book.
True, however right now, Berserker-geared people don’t ever need to back off. Thus, their DPS is high all the time. If they did have to back off, then the killing time goes up, bringing Zerker gear more in line with other gear sets.
So what would be the point of going full offense if you have similar kill times with other gear set? Rewarding passive play? Have you seen the amount of QQs about that in pvp forums?
Full offense would have shorter kill times, but it would actually be high-risk to get those kill times. Right now, the risk/reward ratio is too low (very little risk, extreme reward). This is what needs to change and the best way to do it is increasing the risk, preferably in a way that does not severely punish other specs.
@thefantasticg: That is still lowering the dominance of Berserker gear. You have to mix things up, then
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If I had to back off occasionally it’ll make it all the more important that I do as much damage as I can as fast as I can. It doesn’t lessen that because I don’t want encounters to last longer. I mean really. After the 10,000th Frozen Maw fight I want it to go as fast as possible.
True, however right now, Berserker-geared people don’t ever need to back off. Thus, their DPS is high all the time. If they did have to back off, then the killing time goes up, bringing Zerker gear more in line with other gear sets.
There is a differnce in nerfing a set of gear (which they won’t do, that throws off the stat calculations) and making the play environments less favorable to said gear setup. This is apparent in PvP where Zerker amulet is nowhere close to dominant (though it does get used). The difference in the attack frequency and comparative unpredictablility of players is the main cause for this.
Which is down to the combat mechanics. If they are going to promote diversity by altering the combat mechanics, then they have a chance of making it work… but it is a hell of an overhaul.
Wrong. Combat mechanics would remain the same. All that would change is NPC attack routines. Frequent, low damage attacks could not all be avoided (the current NPC attack style of slow, big attacks can), and the damage would add up, forcing Zerker players to back off occasionally.
Well no, it’s not wrong at all really. NPC attack routines are all part of the pve combat mechanics. Hence I have mentioned telegraphed spike attacks from npcs in the past.
Perhaps you didn’t see those posts or perhaps I hadn’t explained it well enough.
The way the npcs actually engage in combat falls under the jurisdiction of pve combat mechanics as far as I am concerned. You need to alter that if you are going to promote build diversity, simply reducing the damage output on zerk will do fk all to promote build diversity.
Which is why we see such a marked difference in gear set ups between pve and w3/pvp.
In that case, we agree on everything but the definition of “combat mechanics”. To me, “Combat mechanics” is the rules that combat actually follows. NPC behavior does not fall under this as it is not the rules themselves, but how they operate under said rules. NPC behavior is more closely related to a “playstyle” than a “mechanic”.
There is a differnce in nerfing a set of gear (which they won’t do, that throws off the stat calculations) and making the play environments less favorable to said gear setup. This is apparent in PvP where Zerker amulet is nowhere close to dominant (though it does get used). The difference in the attack frequency and comparative unpredictablility of players is the main cause for this.
Which is down to the combat mechanics. If they are going to promote diversity by altering the combat mechanics, then they have a chance of making it work… but it is a hell of an overhaul.
Wrong. Combat mechanics would remain the same. All that would change is NPC attack routines. Frequent, low damage attacks could not all be avoided (the current NPC attack style of slow, big attacks can), and the damage would add up, forcing Zerker players to back off occasionally.
The reason Zerker is not the be-all-end-all of WvW and PvP is the constant, sustained damage. PvE lacks this.
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There is a differnce in nerfing a set of gear (which they won’t do, that throws off the stat calculations) and making the play environments less favorable to said gear setup. This is apparent in PvP where Zerker amulet is nowhere close to dominant (though it does get used). The difference in the attack frequency and comparative unpredictablility of players is the main cause for this.
Tow line is the only skill that self-CCs the user for no apparent reason and does nothing good to the enemy to compensate.
Necro Spear 5 is the same deal. 5 bleeds is not going to ever be a reaonable tradeoff for a self-stun.
All it would take to bring Zerker gear in line with other gear is adding frequent, low-damage attacks to PvE enemies. That way, the Zerker characters simply cannot dodge/block absolutely everything like they can now. Cooldowns will become much more important and defensive stats will make more of a difference. Zerker geared players would have to occasionally back off of their target, heal up, and in general play more catiously than they do now.
Or they’ll get more Thieves with offhand pistol smoke field.
That’s another possibility, though then the Thief is using quite a bit of initiative for melee range avoidance that doesn’t work on bosses or Dredge.
All it would take to bring Zerker gear in line with other gear is adding frequent, low-damage attacks to PvE enemies. That way, the Zerker characters simply cannot dodge/block absolutely everything like they can now. Cooldowns will become much more important and defensive stats will make more of a difference. Zerker geared players would have to occasionally back off of their target, heal up, and in general play more catiously than they do now.
As a side-effect, it would also boost the effectiveness of Confusion and Retaliation, which most people agree are terribly weak in PvE.
Actually removing the icd of the passive could make bunker necros impossble to kill, if you keep those numbers ofc. And Anet fears an unkillable Necro so i doubt they will do it.
Hardly unkillable. Harder, perhaps, but definitely not unkillable. Poison wrecks it, just like all healing, and the average hit you take is still doing more than twice what this negates.
Even so, I wouldn’t mind a small reduction to the numbers if the ICD was removed. At least then it would actually have use instead of being balanced around a situation that cannot happen due to how the skill itself works.
(edited by Drarnor Kunoram.5180)
Removing the ICD’s would increase the possible healing you can get, so that should be addressed first. The numbers honestly are probably fine. Without the ICD, the Necro could potentially have very hefty damage reduction passively. Actively, there are setups to allow for a very large, but very high risk, heal (which it really should be).
Consider if you got healed for just the base value every time you were hit. 325 health may not seem like much, but that’s 10.8% of a 3k hit. Hundred Blades would have its damage reduced by 2,925 if you ate the whole thing. This is just at base value with 0 healing power (the passive scales at 10% of healing power). It’s some pretty handy (but not overpowering) damage reduction, if only the ICD weren’t there.
On the active, I’m not sure if the necro even could use all 25 stacks on his own. Best I can see is Locust Swarm running (5 hits), activate signet, flash Weakening Shroud (1 hit), drop WoS (4 hits) and WoC (3, possibly 4), then using dagger 2 (9 hits). 23 hits is the highest you could possibly get in a complete bomb, which would be 9016 health siphoned (base values), plus 3960 base heal for a total of 12,976.
That said, to pull this off, your opponent must sit in the well for the full duration, not evade, blind, block, or go invulnerable, and you must be able to hit them that entire time in essentially melee range. Also, to pull it off, you must blow two utilities, your heal, class mechanic, and a 24 second (30 untraited) cooldown weapon skill. Sizeable burst, both in damage and healing, but a lot of dedication to that burst that can easily be avoided.
Simply removing the ICD’s would be enough, I feel, to make the heal viable. The numbers may need some tweaks after that, but with the ICD’s, the skill just isn’t good in any situation.
(edited by Drarnor Kunoram.5180)
Anyone else thinks that these are nearly exclusively bad and block trait slots that could actually increase build variety?
There is just one really good one that comes to my mind (and actually makes sense by itself) which is the guardian bubble on revive. I also guess some people take the fall damage traits for WvW because you can actually survive some of the cliffs there.
But again 90% seem uselss.
Don’t forget the Mesmer one that creates a Feedback bubble. I’d say that’s even better.
The Necro “Well of Blood on-revive” is decent as well, but that’s about it for good ones.
Healing Signet does not have an ICD, it is just a 1/second pulse. ICD’s are only on things that get triggered, which Healing Signet’s passive does not. Even so, the passive per-second heal (base values) on Healing Signet is a higher value and reliably heals at max efficiency without fail. Signet of Vampirism does not heal as frequently due to any delay after 1 second at all reducing your healing/second.
I think this is a pretty good idea. I’d love for the skill to be placed on yourself if you have no target.
Wow. I didn’t noticed that you had. Still, a bit more elaboration on the biggest offender of the skill (The ICD’s) and why those are bad may help to get the issue resolved.
Then again, 3 hours is not enough time to realistically expect a red response.