Guild Wars 2

If you’re running all of those things, it is definitely a playstyle adjustment you need. Using your cleansing more effectively is certainly possible and you can get away with less than half of what you claim you are using. On my condition necro, I’ve had significant difficulty against theives only running Shadow’s Embrace and Hide in Shadows because they knew exactly when to use them. Of course, a lot of other theives I just melted rapidly because they used them improperly.

The very biggest piece of advice I can give you actually applies to all condition builds: You do not have to be totally condition free to win! In fact, letting some conditions tick is a smart move. However, you need to figure out when that’s okay on your own, because it shifts dramatically with the fight. In general, though, it’s not worth blowing removal on 7 or fewer stacks of bleeds, as that amounts to auto-attack damage. They’ll come back.

They can if they’re moving faster than their target. Flesh Golem is the best at sticking to his target, due to the cripple on attacks. Of course, ranged pets/minions don’t have an issue and are reliable anyway.

bigmonto.4215:

Drarnor Kunoram.5180:

bigmonto.4215:

I just want to point out that these are the same few guys on this forum to be against any measure on curbing condition builds. To say they are not biased, is a lie.

It is impossible to tell whether it is OPed if toughness affect conditions without knowing how much affect it is going to be.

With that said, conditional meta is not so much of an issue now, as Anet buffed some of power build to be even more OPed.

We’re not against the curbing of condition builds; we just don’t believe there is a problem with them that requires curbing. Many players (including all of them that compete in tourneys) deal with condition builds just fine. I’ve never had issues dealing with condition builds, and I’ll readily admit to not being that great. The fact you bring up “the condition meta” means you are probably one of those players who hasn’t figured this out, because the condition meta never existed.

I don’t know what game you are playing. But condition bunker meta exists, and I use one myself. Yes it is not much of meta in PvE, tPvP, or Wvw zerg, but any type of pvp solo play or roaming, it does exist, and it is very unbalanced.

Now you can argue that the game isn’t balanced on these modes, but some people only enjoying playing these modes, and condition meta is very game breaking. But these days most of the fotm players move to Power Ranger, you have fewer conditional users around, and the condition meta is less of an issue after the patch.

I contend that it does not exist. A number of reasons why:

1. In all game modes, I have observed condition builds to be in the small minority. This is much more easily seen in TPvP where the top end results are well documented, but even in solo-que and hotjoin, condition builds are not even present in about half of the games I’ve played, let alone being everywhere. This has been consistent since launch, save for a one-month period (Dhuumfire patch).

2. In any game mode where your team is essentially random (solo-que and hotjoins), a meta cannot truly exist. There may be things more common than others, but no meta can form due to no composition planning being possible. Metagames are the results of deliberate thought, not random assignment. It’s like talking about the ARAM meta in League of Legends. You don’t really have anything to go off of.

3. Even during the short period where condition builds were on the majority of teams, condition builds still always made up less than half of the organized teams. Most teams ran just one Necro (because when Dhuumfire came out, everything else was outclassed for conditions) and everyone else was Power spec.

4. WvW roaming is dominated primarily by thieves, warriors, and rangers right now with a decent helping of mesmers and eles. P/D thieves are far less common than Dagger/X thieves, Warriors are a huge mixed bag, but most run Greatsword (mobility) or Longbow (because CI+ Combustive Shot is still dumb) or both (in which case, they’re not the most effective). Rangers are almost all Power due to Longbow, Greatsword, and Sword being their best roaming weapons right now. Eles don’t have great condition builds, so most run celestial Might stacking. Mesmers are the only common roamers that are usually using condition builds. Note that the two most notorious condition classes; engineers and necros, are both nearly absent from the roaming scene.

You want us to do calculations? Okay. What’s the target? Ranger or Engineer would be best, as they have mid-tier armor and health. I’ll do the comparisons against Zerker, Clerics, and Knight’s Exotic gear to show the variance.

Now, which profession should I use for the Dire and Soldier’s builds? Same profession both times. Gear tier will be identical.

bigmonto.4215:

I just want to point out that these are the same few guys on this forum to be against any measure on curbing condition builds. To say they are not biased, is a lie.

It is impossible to tell whether it is OPed if toughness affect conditions without knowing how much affect it is going to be.

With that said, conditional meta is not so much of an issue now, as Anet buffed some of power build to be even more OPed.

We’re not against the curbing of condition builds; we just don’t believe there is a problem with them that requires curbing. Many players (including all of them that compete in tourneys) deal with condition builds just fine. I’ve never had issues dealing with condition builds, and I’ll readily admit to not being that great. The fact you bring up “the condition meta” means you are probably one of those players who hasn’t figured this out, because the condition meta never existed.

TheBandicoot.5294:

Wait what? What should i prove which is not already proven? look around! Why are so many people playing condition tanks when they´re so inferior according to your math? Its because the are not inferior. Its because they are effective vs bunkers and zerkers.

I dont need math to understand that. I invested about 3k hours into roaming and dueling. Math doesnt do kitten in such a volatile environment because its just theory, but the active combat throws way too many unknown variables into the mix. Just to be clear – i´d have to research it first. But after so long time playing i guess i can pretty much use my existing experience as an argument.

When you even see guardians (!) go condition damage, then you know somethign is seriously wrong in the balance of power vs conditions.

The system is flawed in its entirety. While Conditions are inferior to power in big group compositions and group PvE content, they get more and more effective the smaller the composition is. That needs to be changed. Smallscale conditions have to be nerfed while zerging conditioners need help. Making conditions rely on precision and critical damage won´t fix the latter. but it would balance them in 5v5 and below.

Are they? In the last 15 PvP matches I’ve played, there has been one, I repeat one condition build that I’ve run into out of all players on both teams. Out of 136 players, only one was running a condition build.

Roaming in WvW, I’ve run into maybe three condition builds out of 50+ roamers

They are very, very much in the minority. You do not have “condition tanks running everywhere.”

You see Guardians running conditions because they can, not because it’s good. People don’t know how to deal with a condition guardian because they never fight them. The success of that build relies on its opponents inexperience, not its own ability.

And it’s a computer program. Absolutely everything can be calculated (and is, that’s how the game works). What cannot happen is predictions.

Belzebu.3912:

Currently you have Vit to rise your HP and Tou to rise your armor, you have invulnerability/block/dodge to counter direct all damage, and cond cleanse for conditions.

If you changed Tou to not rise armor, how would you rise it? Heavy classes would have more advantage over the rest.

Fixed that for you

TheBandicoot.5294:

Toughness is fine as it is. Problem is the way people think stats do work. Going conditions allows you to be tanky and do lots of damage. And please, guys – its a matter of FACT they do too much damage in too short time for their tankyness. Keep equations out of the way, they simply dont reflect what happens in real environment. And thats what matters. There´s a reason why smallscale is dominated by conditions.

So Guyver is right in some part. Its not toughness which is in need of a change. Its condition damage. Reduce their damage, make them able to crit in order to force a conditioner to be squishy for the amount of damage he can dish out. Or introduce more frequently usable cleanses and update existing ones to account for the stupidly increased amount of conditions flying around including the new one.

Vitality itself ain´t a counter for conditions because vitality also has to cover direct damage. Also, if you stack vitality, you have to forgo damage output, which in turn means you won´t bring down any bunker or condition tank. The current system is flawed.

Just saying, but if the math doesn’t back you up, then it’s not a “matter of fact.” Math is literally as factual as you can possibly get.

“Shield” is a generic term. Frequently in games with health, it’s used to refer to something that absorbs a certain amount of damage before it starts affecting your actual health. Well known examples of games using this form of “shield” are Diablo 3, League of Legends, Smite, and Mass Effect. Never once did I say that death shroud was a block or anything close to it.

You yourself seem to fail to grasp what “sustain” means. Do champion mobs have great sustain? They have far more health than any player, after all. The answer is a resounding “no” because they don’t recover that health. They take a while to down, but their sustain is completely nonexistant in most cases. The same is true with necros: they take a bit more (though really, not a whole ton more) to bring down, but most of the health you take from them doesn’t get recovered. They’re resilient to burst due to high effective health, but since they lack recovery, they’re quite vulnerable to sustained damage.

If Toughness reduced condition damage, Knight’s becomes the best gear set in the game for PvP. Decent damage, but the highest damage reduction.

Conditions right now are the counter to armor-stacking builds. Make Toughness effective against them and you literally would have one build to rule them all.

Why Chilling Darkness? You only have one blind. Weakening Shroud or Reaper’s Precision would be a much better fit.

shimmerless.4560:

The notion that Nightmare will only interupt something worth interrupting once in a while is one of the worst arguments I’ve heard yet put forward in its favor, and GW2 is absolutely a game of escalating mistakes, what on earth are you talking about?

No, GW2 is not a game of escalating mistakes.

Here is the key difference between the two.

League of Legends is definitely a game of escalating mistakes. Each time you screw up, it gets harder to come back and win. This is because kills and objectives grant a resource, namely gold and XP. If you get killed or fail to take an objective, your opponents now have more resources to work with.

Compare to Guild Wars 2: if you die, sure, your opponents are closer to victory, but they didn’t gain a resource to make all future fights harder for you to win.

sorrychief.2563:

refreshing to see people complain about necro sustain when they have a 2nd health bar and spectral skills.

First off, Death Shroud is not a “2nd health bar.” It’s more akin to a shield that absorbs a certain amount of damage than a health bar, simply because every necro is capable of exactly the same things while in death shroud. You trade versatility for the ability to protect your health. If it were truly a “2nd health bar”, then necros would have access to all of their skills while in death shroud. They don’t.

Second, death shroud currently makes up nearly 95% of a necro’s sustain, and very few builds have the ability to build it up quickly. That rapid buildup is also on long cooldowns. The lack of healing in death shroud means that it’s not so much sustain as it is delay. In many cases, an attrition battle becomes a ticking clock for a necro, rather than being their greatest strength like is intended.

/rant

Pretty sure you have to equip them, which means you can’t sell them afterward.

That’s MethaneGas here on the forums. As far as roaming necros go, he’s one of the best.

That said, what necros “need” varies greatly with who you talk to. They do need some help, but how that help should come is a topic for debate.

dancingmonkey.4902:

No, it is not time. The WvW community is doing their best to keep the devs wrapped up in the WvW unofficial CDI and we have another official CDI under way at the moment. After those are finished though, it may be time.

Those are different teams of developers, though. Sure, there is (or at least, should be) communication between the them, but profession balance is a separate team from NPE which is a separate team from WvW development. Having multiple CDI’s going simultaneously should not be a problem if they each involve different people.

I am aware of your personal allegiances, but why, specifically, do you feel the necromancer needs the next CDI? They are extremely popular in WvW and almost every single team runs one in high end PvP right now. So I am curious why you feel they need one at the moment?

Generally speaking, I feel necros have a couple of design flaws (siphons not working in death shroud, for example) and also really need some love in the support deparment. If they aren’t to get boons (which I agree with!) make them better at applying the hindering conditions like Weakness and Chill. In PvE, this lack of support options is really noticeable. Give them something that they can contribute in PvE that nobody else really can.

It seems to me like the necro’s current design is so selfish that it just doesn’t play the same game as anyone else. Its buffing ability is limited to itself, it doesn’t get much combo field play, and on top of that, death shroud blocking healing makes them unable to recieve some allied help (granted, allowing all healing in death shroud would most likely be horribly OP with current environment).

Basically, I feel Necro needs the next CDI because how it plays is very much a “I’m going to take the ball and go play over there” profession. It just doesn’t interact like other professions do. It plays a game with all of the same rules as GW2, it can influence people playing GW2, but what necros are playing just doesn’t feel like the same game everyone else plays.

Of course, anyone who has a different opinion is welcome to voice it. This is a discussion thread, first and foremost.

Johje Holan.4607:

Tman.6349:

Yelloweyedemon.2860:

Prysin.8542:

B: Make spirits destructible but last until destroyed (like pets)

Chat: “Placed my spirit at the beginning of the dungeon, brb reloging to make it go away”…

Just change the spirit skill to a signet then back. Problem solved.

*got locked for spamming then Prysin covered this already. Though, if you use a signet instead of another spirit it will skip the CD.

@Solrik:why is killing off your own spirits a problem?

I don’t understand why you’d need to even bother switching utilities at all? I’ve never played spirits on my Ranger but I assumed they worked like the old Ritualist spirits in GW1 – creating a new one destroys the old one.

At least that’s how they’d have to make it work if they were permanent.

The problem there is because spirits are chain skills. Sure, it could be made to work like that if the active effects were removed, but the active skills are what make Spirit of Nature good and also really improve Spirit of Earth.

I realize this is opening a can of worms, but it has to get discussed some time.

After the last patch, it’s clear that Rangers did see results of their CDI. I’m confident that there are some things still on their way for them, although what those are, I have no clue. Regardless, it shows that the CDI works. Sure, some people are upset that their particular idea wasn’t implemented, but that happens regardless. A lot of the Ranger changes over the last few patches were things I saw get discussed in the CDI and related threads.

So, that brings up two questions:

1. Is it time for the next one?
2. Which profession should be next?

My personal opinions on both are “Yes” and “Necromancer,” since the original vote had Elementalist at #2 (ele shortly afterward got a number of buffs, upping its viability in all areas) and Necros at #3. That, and I main necro, which didn’t see much in the way of changes these last couple patches.

Tim.6450:

Drarnor Kunoram.5180:

and conditions transferred scaling with your condition damage.

May I know how you got this information? Because I get the distinct impression that is not sofor transferred conditions. The UI seems to indicate that the source remains the same ,I don’t get any floaters (both individual and combined, BiP doesn’t count since I am the original source) and traits don’t react to the conditions.

I got the information from experience. I always have gotten the floaters for transferred conditions.

EDIT: That is, to say, I used to get the floaters and have it scale with my condition damage. Now it doesn’t show up there or in combat log, so without being on the receiving end of a transfer, it’s impossible to say what’s really going on.

Norjena.5172:

These One Hit Wonder Bosses are just a fantasy. They actually don´t exist. Not even in fotm lvl 50. U can even tank Crushers smash with enough defense stacking.

A couple do. The most notable one is Kudu in CoE story mode. One of his attacks deals damage equal to your health * your armor, which, unless you have some special damage reduction effect (Protection, Frost Armor, Signet of Judgement, Inquest slaying-potion, or a Weakness proc on Kudu), means you are downed 100% of the time from being hit with it.

Xae.7204:

Bhawb.7408:

Staff isn’t at all hybrid, its a condi utility weapon. And for condi builds it is amazing.

If it is a Condi weapon why does most 4 of 5 abilities scale on power?

It is a hybrid weapon. And it fails at both.

Probably because every damage-dealing skill in the game scales on Power.

It’s a condition weapon for Mark of Blood and Chillblains, Terror making Reaper’s Mark hit hard, and conditions transferred scaling with your condition damage. Even without traits, 3/5 skills scale best with condition damage and with Terror, that’s 4/5. Meanwhile, only 2/5 skills even scale remotely well with Power (Putrid Mark scaling very well).

Lopez.7369:

I don’t have any math. But based on some testing on golems, the auto-attack DPS is still really, really bad. What’s worse, it’s actually hard to keep at 20 or more vulnerability stacks because you obviously still have to use the No. 2 attack for DPS, and it doesn’t stack vulnerability for a considerable time.

A single shot on Focus 4 will pump the vulnerability to max for several seconds. Vulnerability stacking on a single target is something necros do actually manage better than any other profession. Sure, others can get to 25 stacks briefly, but necros can actually maintain it.

That said, it’s kind of a not-very-helpful claim to fame, as a group will stack a fair bit of vuln anyway. My point was that you can actually take breaks for DPS without losing much in the way of vulnerability stacking, and easily make up for the lower stacks with higher damage.

Generally, yes, I do have an idea on certain passives.

For example, on a necro, you look at what weapon he’s wielding. If it’s a scepter, chances are pretty good he’s got Nightmare runes and Reaper’s protection, because right now, that’s probably the most effective build for conditions. You know he’s condition specced because he’s using a scepter. Or he’s bad, in which case holding something in reserve isn’t hurting you.

By holding the stunbreak in reserve, you’re ready for when he does use Doom or Reaper’s Mark, even if it turns out he’s not running Nightmare runes.

Of course, after the first fight, you should have a pretty good idea if he’s running those passives or not.

Daishi.6027:

Passives on the other hand replace the strong damage skills, and sometimes the healing, but especially the strong combos. They are not combos set up in combat, it is set up by gear/stat. This isn’t actually a bad thing But in the current there is no real distinct counter play, and I think we do need one for the health of the game.

If you suspect passive A, prepare for it. Every single passive effect in the game has some form of counterplay.

In the case of Nightmare runes, it’s popping stability/Zerker stance before hitting the person (in the case of necros, best to do that and lead with hard CC to proc both Nightmare runes and Reaper’s Protection simultaneously), or having a stunbreak/instant cleanse ready in case your suspicions are correct.

Quite fair in my view. Personally, I’d prefer that the ratio per-pulse gets increased by 83% and the pulse healing gets another 22% increase so that we have the same total healing as before, but in half the time. It can remain a light field, then, which I prefer personally due to more versatile combos.

That said, a water field does make more sense from the name perspective anyway.

Vanive.3804:

On a side note please put the nodes on sale again so I can buy them all. Thx :p

The nodes are always available…

Merlin Dyfed Avalon.5046:

i agree, the random proc is terrible.. so lets rework the proc like:

“Your minions now cause fear on death”
solved.. everyone happy because now you know when to expect a fear.. and you wont attack minions anyway.. why would you when you can burn trough the minion master with 2 control skills and a lot of pew pew..

bye now

I would use them on every MM build ever. Bone Minions become OP :p

shimmerless.4560:

A random fear proc is a hell of a lot more potent than random poison or passive crit chance, what planet do you live on? It’s a hard CC that can be traited by one class in particular to deal damage and last upwards of 4 seconds in sPvP (longer in WvW).

Please enlighten me how you can get a 2 second Fear, which obeys all of the normal rules of conditions, including the +100% duration cap, to longer than 4 seconds?

The reason these forums blow chunks for feedback is that you have people scrabbling away at theorycrafting and giving all these just-so answers to things they’ve never actually played nor played against.

Have you considered that maybe those of us saying the runes are fine both use and play against these and have figured out how to deal with them from both sides? I know I have. Even in PvP matches, you have multiple opportunities to fight someone using Nightmare runes, so you figure out the first time who has them and then engage them later prepared for the rune proc.

Oh, and the change regarding Mesmers wasn’t a rune change, it was a “clones don’t have runes anymore” change. Nightmare runes were just the most ubiquitous because they were found on a dungeon armor set naturally and the other dungeon sets don’t have as noticable of effects.

I broke down a likely scenario in my above post. Net result is that when you factor in some really common factors, a 5k life blast is actually on the low end of what you can take with 3k armor in WvW. A 7k hit is quite possible, and the highest end is probably 8k, and yes, that’s with 3,000 armor.

This is the result of WvW’s excessive buffs and the multiplicitive nature of direct damage, though.

First, I’d like to see where “anet admitted they nerfed warr because the many qq posts.”

Second, you are well within your rights to post these things, but that’s all you’re known for. People won’t take you seriously until you take a step back and really consider the options you have and the implications of changes before posting.

25 Bloodlust stacks, full Guard Leech stacks, Borderland’s Bloodlust, Sharpening Stone, food. Yeah, I can see a 5k hit when you’re below 50%. Especially if it followed a vulnerability burst.

I’ll even leave the food out right now.

25 stacks of Bloodlust and 10 stacks of Might (Blood is Power makes this easy) on Ascended Zerker gear (staff or traited axe as weapon) with Superior Sharpening Stone has Life Blast hitting for an average of 1236 on a non-crit against 2600 armor. Against 3k armor, this is 1071.2

Now, multiply that by 1.05 for Sigil of Force: 1124.76
Times 1.2 for Close to Death: 1349.712
Times 1.05 for Strength of Undeath (5% damage while above 50% life force): 1417.1976
Times 1.25 for Vulnerability (Necros can stack 25 vulnerability well): 1771.497
Times 2.2 for crit: 3897.2934

So, not quite there, but we’re missing a few things: Borderland’s Bloodlust (with Sharpening Stone, a total of 33 power and an additional 2% crit damage easy), Applied Fortitude + Sharpening Stone, and Guard Leech for an additional 143 Power and 2% crit damage. And then factor in food and runes, as well as the high possibility he had more than 10 Might stacks. (such as Reaper’s Might).

In fact, I factor in Boderland’s Bloodlust, Guard Leech, and Applied Fortitude and up the Might stacks to 25, the average Life Blast crit against 3k armor is 6,952.339. This is still without food, runes, or even a complete infusion set, so clearly, there is a lot of room to hit 5k life blasts against 3k armor.

But then again, when you add all of that in, why does any huge hit surprise you?

To Jonathan Sharp:

Could you perhaps give a bit of the rationale behind the decision to not touch the Necromancer’s Blood Magic traitline at all in this last patch? Given that a stated goal of the patch was to improve Necromancer sustain, it seems odd that the iconic “sustain” line was actually completely untouched.

Rosario.4518:

Neptune.2570:

Roaming: Mesmer and thief.
Spvp/tpvp: Necro and engi
PvE: Just…. don’t use condi….

What would the necro build look like?

Probably a 0/6/4/0/4 with Terror, Path of Corruption, Reaper’s Protection/Greater Marks, and Master of Terror. That’s the most popular trait setup right now.

It’s nicknamenick. He posts whine threads about every non-Warrior profession. Probably because he can’t run full Zerker with all damage utilities in PvP or WvW.

That said, if a necro is hitting that hard with Life Blast, he’s probably running full Zerker himself and has some Might stacks with decent vulnerability on his target. If you’re having a problem, try hitting him. Even with that damage per-shot, he’ll still take ~4 seconds to down even the glassiest ele.

Prysin.8542:

Dadnir – its been working this way since forever.

It activates once per F2, not per attack.

So spiders, depending on # venom uses could get from 1 to 3 applications of cripple. Devourers can get even more then that. HOWEVER, devourers are horrible pets, their F2 is weak and does little damage. There is 3-4 pets which fully utilizes this trait. Its the chill and AOE effect pets. That would be snow leopard, owl, krytan drakehound, alpine wolf, black bear, polar bear…. these pets are truly strong with that trait, because they apply 2x CC rather then just 1x cripple. Meaning an owl will give you maximum negative movement (i think the cap for max negative movement is -75 to -80%, Cripple + chill seem to slightly stack, but not all the way up to -116% as one may think)

Cripple’s effect is completely overridden by Chill. For both speed bonuses and speed penalties, only the highest applies.

06/4/6/0 Rangers with Moment of Clarity, Survival of the Fittest, and Off-hand or Martial training.

Prepare for the mega-Mauls.

Lifestealer.4910:

Drarnor Kunoram.5180:

Carighan.6758:

Lifestealer.4910:

Necros are pretty OP, they can destroy engineers with one press of a button, its sad really.

That button would be?

Condition transfer after the engie is dumb enough to give necros a ton of ammo.

Condition engies can beat condition necros, but they have to not spike the conditions like they do against everyone else.

You say this but in reality the necro won’t die at all if you don’t apply enough pressure, if you just focus on applying 2 condi at a time, the necro is simply gonna just end up condi bombing you with their own condition which engineers again, cannot counter.

Its a lose either way, you hold out all your skills and necro end up crushing you because you do not pressure enough or you end up condi bombing him in which case you just end up getting yourself killed.

Necro also has more than one button to counter engi, Corrupt boon after engi reach 75% health and its usually auto win. signet of spite and/or some random fear proc on top of spamming all your marks and necro wins

Its really disgusting how such a class is still not nerfed. You can faceroll your keyboard as necro, make all the mistakes in the world, where as i have to play flawlessly the entire way through.

You can even ask vee wee #1 engineer and she would agree that necro needs nerf.

Well, I figured I would mention the “don’t give the necro more ammo than you have to” approach than the “dodge the predictable transfers.” If you’re fighting a condition necro as a condition…well, basically anyone else, you are giving the necro an advantage over you. Necros are supposed to be the masters of conditions (about the only part of the design philosophy that is currently right) and going condi vs. condi against them is fighting in their domain.

When is playing to your opponent’s strengths ever a good idea?

Not sure why you would need to make another necro. It’s the same cost to re-gear as newly gear and you save on a character slot.

mikeew.8607:

rapthorne.7345:

I feel the weakness is PvE is 90% attributed to various boss buffs negating a large portion of what necro is designed to do

WTF are you talking about. I am going to get some recording software and make a vid of me pathing all of AC maybe a few other dungeons showing how a necro is just fine as long as it is not played but an idiot running a condition spec. That is all.

Because what you’re describing can be done by everyone else as well. And they also do more in the same builds.

Necro has builds where they do unique and valuable things, but enemy design renders it moot.

It’s not that necro is “weak” in PvE, but rather that everyone else is simply better.

Carighan.6758:

Lifestealer.4910:

Necros are pretty OP, they can destroy engineers with one press of a button, its sad really.

That button would be?

Condition transfer after the engie is dumb enough to give necros a ton of ammo.

Condition engies can beat condition necros, but they have to not spike the conditions like they do against everyone else.

Could it maybe be that Rangers are saying the shorter cast Rapid Fire is not OP because it’s actually fine?

Yeah, it’s a new threat. Guess what? You can’t counter everything in one build.

rapthorne.7345:

I feel the weakness is PvE is 90% attributed to various boss buffs negating a large portion of what necro is designed to do

Pretty much. That and the reliance on older bosses of super hard-hitting attacks that come juuuuuust too quickly to dodge them all with no vigor.

Considering perma-cripple is really easy to obtain as a Ranger anyway, I’d say it’s fine.

Zenos Osgorma.2936:

kiwituatara.6053:

LOL. You can quadruple the duration of these runes on a ranger.

2s Fear x Moment of Clarity x Condition Duration = 8s Fear.

Slap on a shortbow and bleed from flanking.

I’ve had my fun shutting down necros and engis completely with these runes. I don’t mind seeing it nerfed.

Moment of clarity is only . Daze and stun .

And Fear. Tooltip is incorrect.

Holl.3109:

You SHOULD NOT be posting if you DONT KNOW what you’re talking about.

NECROS DONT TAKE HALF DAMAGE IN DS. It seems like you NEVER PLAYED a necro because if you did you would know.

Actually necros do take half damage in death shroud. Numbers that pop up are the same, but we only lose 1 life force for every 2 damage taken. This is why, prior to having a visible value, necros had tested life force to be 120% of normal health, despite ANet stating that it was 60%. Now that we can see that value, we know ANet is correct, but the functionality hasn’t changed at all.

Narkodx.1472:

Corrosive Poison Cloud needs to reflect!

People would actually use it!

Not sure about reflect, but destroying projectiles would be awesome and thematically in line for a corrosive poison cloud.

Hero panel is bugged with transformations now and is not showing any bonus stats. I can guarantee the Toughness/Vitality boost is still on Plague. I’ve tested.

snow.8097:

Skittles idea seems legit.
I would prefer to just add a proc to gain retaliation and Regeneration.
Rangers have no access to retaliation and a GM would be okay to gain some seconds

Axe 5 gives Retaliation for its duration, so I wouldn’t say “no access”

To be clear, the Protection on Spectral Armor will persist into Lich Form, but the “gain life force when struck” does not.

As to the OP: Warhorn. Even with nothing else, it’s usually 20% of their stance duration that they aren’t using skills. If they pop Balanced Stance, then you successfully got them to use their two best stances simultaneously. Run away and come back in a few seconds.

SlimChance.6593:

Option 3
Change the 6th trait of the Rune to simply EXTEND Fear duration. Using Rune of the Mesmer as an example. “Increase Fear Duration by 33%”

Steps on the toes of Rune of the Necromancer, then, which has a 6-piece bonus of “+20% Fear duration.” And between the two, Nightmare would be sooooo much better because generic condition duration is much harder to get than vitality.

Note, however, that Runes of the Necromancer are almost never used. This could be a good time to argue that they need a buff, though.

vincecontix.1264:

Aomine.5012:

Team Q Leader-board EU:
#18 EU Chukree.1756 Wins: 2061 Lose:789 Win rate: 72.32

Think hard before you disagree with him, he clearly knows his stuffs as a top player.

Those are some nice stats. I agree with op about having to focus necro first. Necro is not the easist class to focus it actually takes some time. Its basically you have to focus them first due to the havoc there reek its left unchecked.

You also focus them first because they’re the easiest class to focus…

When faced with a S/F ele, a condition necro, and a Guardian, who gets focused?

Answer: the necro. Although the S/F ele can also wreak havoc if left unchecked, he can also respond to focus-fire and becomes more of a hassle to kill. You can say “only for as long as his defenses hold out”, sure, but that time is significantly longer than it takes to burn through a necro’s health and death shroud.