Guild Wars 2

lorndarken.3702:

Drarnor Kunoram.5180:

lorndarken.3702:

Drarnor Kunoram.5180:

Aberrant.6749:

lorndarken.3702:

for all of you people who seem to be thinking necros are just fine they way they are , do yourself a favor for arguments sake please i beg of you before commenting on this topic

make a necro , it does not matter what race it is , your choice , go to pvp , and when you do game browse servers that are 1 vs 1 okay . and ask for a duel with someone with your necro . do this and have about 3 to 7 duels at least . and then come back with your response . okay . i guarantee you that you will not have the same opinion anymore about necros once after you have done this .

other wise please explain why you choose your class you play mostly over necro in the first place and please explain why you prefer that play style compared to necro .

1v1 in pvp is a poor way to judge if a class needs a change. I’m not against changing things, but that shouldn’t be the main criteria without many changes to all the classes.

Agreed. It needs to be 5v5’s, really. Necro is strongest in 1v1 scenarios due to how Death Shroud works.

where is your proof ? oh that’s right you have none !

Simple logic. Death Shroud does not scale at all with how many people are fighting you, which means as a defensive/sustain mechanic, it’s strongest in a 1v1 scenario and gets weaker with more opponents. Recall that there are only two methods for generating life force that get more effective with more opponents (Locust Swarm and Life Transfer). Since Death Shroud absorbs a finite amount of damage, the more foes attacking the necro means the faster it depletes.

On top of that, a necro’s most effective control and boon stripping abilities are single target, which are arguably its strongest skills. Yes, a necro does have a good amount of AoE, but what people are actually scared of are the single-target bombs like Corrupt Boon or Dark Pact (which may not be scary on its own, but a 3 second immobilize usually spells death).

Primarily, though, the reason why 1v1 is a terrible way to judge necro strength is the defense side. The typical Nightmare runes Terror build that people like to run is also strongest in 1v1 due to the rune proc also being single target in addition to everything else I mentioned.

you are bringing up one build out of how many different builds a necro could go with with , there are builds that use rockdog , builds that use undead for toughness for example, and everyone knows that in pvp in a 1 vs 1 fight a necro that when they jump into the pvp zone itself they all start off with zero life force , 1 vs 1 is a perfect way to measure how player skill / builds play a part of how large of a gap necros fit in terms of their own given abilities , taking a necro into a group setting you can never get a good grasp of how much the necro is lacking based on their own personal style of play . and i will mention another example , necro vs ele , necro is condi build vs a ele going diamond skin . you know what will happen in that duel , the necro will get crushed every time. in a group setting where a necro is condi and ele is going diamond skin , someone else on the team will do more damage where as the necro would be left clueless as to how it played a part in the defeat of that ele.

in wvw necros are great for their wells and that is about it . no one is asking them to bring spectral wall or minions or their death shroud because it serves no purpose ! but the moment you take that wellomancer into a 1 vs 1 fight they get destroyed !

I mentioned only 1 build specifically, and that was only mentioning the runes themselves. Everything else I said applies to literally every necro build out there because it revolves around the class mechanic and skills that can show up on multiple builds.

Death Shroud for non-MM builds effectively starts at 20% due to summoning and swapping Bone Fiend and Shadow Fiend. Even if you don’t do that, life force still builds some in combat and regardless depletes faster if you have more opponents.

And strangely, well-o-mancer is a pretty strong 1v1 spec as well, especially in PvP. Once they land some control on you (immobilize, fear, flesh golem charge), you are on a very short clock to respond before you’re dead. The burst on that build is nuts (so far as necro builds go).

lorndarken.3702:

Drarnor Kunoram.5180:

Aberrant.6749:

lorndarken.3702:

for all of you people who seem to be thinking necros are just fine they way they are , do yourself a favor for arguments sake please i beg of you before commenting on this topic

make a necro , it does not matter what race it is , your choice , go to pvp , and when you do game browse servers that are 1 vs 1 okay . and ask for a duel with someone with your necro . do this and have about 3 to 7 duels at least . and then come back with your response . okay . i guarantee you that you will not have the same opinion anymore about necros once after you have done this .

other wise please explain why you choose your class you play mostly over necro in the first place and please explain why you prefer that play style compared to necro .

1v1 in pvp is a poor way to judge if a class needs a change. I’m not against changing things, but that shouldn’t be the main criteria without many changes to all the classes.

Agreed. It needs to be 5v5’s, really. Necro is strongest in 1v1 scenarios due to how Death Shroud works.

where is your proof ? oh that’s right you have none !

Simple logic. Death Shroud does not scale at all with how many people are fighting you, which means as a defensive/sustain mechanic, it’s strongest in a 1v1 scenario and gets weaker with more opponents. Recall that there are only two methods for generating life force that get more effective with more opponents (Locust Swarm and Life Transfer). Since Death Shroud absorbs a finite amount of damage, the more foes attacking the necro means the faster it depletes.

On top of that, a necro’s most effective control and boon stripping abilities are single target, which are arguably its strongest skills. Yes, a necro does have a good amount of AoE, but what people are actually scared of are the single-target bombs like Corrupt Boon or Dark Pact (which may not be scary on its own, but a 3 second immobilize usually spells death).

Primarily, though, the reason why 1v1 is a terrible way to judge necro strength is the defense side. The typical Nightmare runes Terror build that people like to run is also strongest in 1v1 due to the rune proc also being single target in addition to everything else I mentioned.

Aberrant.6749:

lorndarken.3702:

for all of you people who seem to be thinking necros are just fine they way they are , do yourself a favor for arguments sake please i beg of you before commenting on this topic

make a necro , it does not matter what race it is , your choice , go to pvp , and when you do game browse servers that are 1 vs 1 okay . and ask for a duel with someone with your necro . do this and have about 3 to 7 duels at least . and then come back with your response . okay . i guarantee you that you will not have the same opinion anymore about necros once after you have done this .

other wise please explain why you choose your class you play mostly over necro in the first place and please explain why you prefer that play style compared to necro .

1v1 in pvp is a poor way to judge if a class needs a change. I’m not against changing things, but that shouldn’t be the main criteria without many changes to all the classes.

Agreed. It needs to be 5v5’s, really. Necro is strongest in 1v1 scenarios due to how Death Shroud works.

GoogleBrandon.5073:

CntrlAltDefeat.1465:

9)giving us combo fields. We have only one type.

We got four ._.

Light – Well of Blood
Dark – Well of Suffering – and all the others actually
Poison – Chillblains
Ethereal – Spectral Wall

CPC is a poison field as well.

coglin.1867:

Drarnor Kunoram.5180:

alchemyst.2165:

lorndarken.3702:

alchemyst.2165:

@ OP

The thing that makes a class balanced is that they have weaknesses. You’re saying that those weaknesses shouldn’t be there, therefore making the class OP.

There’s a reason you don’t have certain things like mobility. It’s because it would just overpower the class. There has to be strengths and weaknesses of a class.

play a necromancer , and when you do , go to pvp and compete in servers that are 1 vs 1 , enjoy lol

Actually I’ve done that before, I made a d/d necro and it’s so fun just to 3 shot people with Lich form and Death shroud.

And if I’m not doing that, I have good tankiness, damage even outside of Lich/DS, and leech. Heck, I even remember staying alive in a 1v2 or 1v3 in pvp with d/d at around 10-20% hp for around 1 or 2 minutes straight with no help from allies, and I even managed to kill one of them.

Were they all wearing Clerics amulet or something? D/D necro won’t survive a 1v3 for even 45 seconds against decent players. That’s not to say you have no hope of downing one, but you certianly didn’t last that long against players that were halfway decent.

I think it is a complete load to say you cannot survive in that situation with D/D. I love that weapon set on my necro. I find it exceptionally solid. I admit though, that I would love to see some type of 900 range gap closer on the off hand.

In a 1v3 in PvP? I highly doubt even Zombify could survive for more than a minute against decent (not even top tier) players in that situation.

D/D is a good set for survival, but it still has limits and realistically won’t hold up against 3 people beating on you for very long. 1v3 on any class any spec (other than evade-spam thief) is tough to survive for even 2 minutes, let alone 3.

alchemyst.2165:

lorndarken.3702:

alchemyst.2165:

@ OP

The thing that makes a class balanced is that they have weaknesses. You’re saying that those weaknesses shouldn’t be there, therefore making the class OP.

There’s a reason you don’t have certain things like mobility. It’s because it would just overpower the class. There has to be strengths and weaknesses of a class.

play a necromancer , and when you do , go to pvp and compete in servers that are 1 vs 1 , enjoy lol

Actually I’ve done that before, I made a d/d necro and it’s so fun just to 3 shot people with Lich form and Death shroud.

And if I’m not doing that, I have good tankiness, damage even outside of Lich/DS, and leech. Heck, I even remember staying alive in a 1v2 or 1v3 in pvp with d/d at around 10-20% hp for around 1 or 2 minutes straight with no help from allies, and I even managed to kill one of them.

Were they all wearing Clerics amulet or something? D/D necro won’t survive a 1v3 for even 45 seconds against decent players. That’s not to say you have no hope of downing one, but you certianly didn’t last that long against players that were halfway decent.

Good point. I would hope most people have figured out why necros and PvE don’t mix so well.

NeXeD.3042:

None of the things you complained about are why necros are lacking in pve…. condi applies to all classes, stab not really necessary in pve, knockbacks snares stuns etc not really useful in pve most of the time, not ranging very often in pve, necros are very capable of damage and even a noob could take a zerk necro through a dungeon. The things you complained about are issues in other gamemodes, but we are actually ok in tpvp, and great in wvw.

Yeah, but the issue is, while necro damage isn’t bad, you still don’t take a necro for damage because they aren’t even in the top 3. Factor in that they don’t have any useful support (boons are very few and far between, as are conditions and Defiant makes a mockery of debuffing and control) and that’s why necros are bottom tier PvE.

I agree we’re pretty good in WvW and all right (not really great) in PvP, though. PvE needs a redesign for necros to become wanted. Like a new dungeon infested with mordrem…

I’ll admit: when I want to screw around in WvW, I run Bone Minions and Battle Roar sometimes. 24% crit chance on Putrid Explosion with an additional 70 power backing it actually can pack a punch.

Also, if you pre-summon them and have hit your 2nd birthday, birthday blaster cake can be picked up by minions.

I in no way advocate this as an actual strategy, but 26% crit chance putrid explosions with 152% crit damage can make a dent. Just beware you have only one utility skill left, so I hope you don’t need them

Really, the issue with necros comes down to an inability to keep their actual health up. Every other profession has some method of playing it safe while they recuperate some health. This is not the case for Necros, as all of their non-6 sustain requires them to be actively fighting. Necros can’t “just heal themselves” outside of #6 because every other skill and trait that lets them regain health requires them to be hitting a foe (or getting hit in the case of Signet of Vampirism). This is even true for life force; every method to gain life force requires hitting or being hit by an opponent (aside from the painfully slow Signet of Undeath), so you can’t just back off to recuperate some.

This is probably fully intentional, since from a lore perspective, Necromancers are practitioners of Aggression magic. There is nothing inherently wrong with the idea either. However, it also means Necromancers are rather easily denied what little sustain they do have, and the values Necros currently have just aren’t enough when you take that into account. Also, because they cannot back off to get said sustain, it means Necros must not only build up, but must at least match incoming damage on each sustain skill or else they fall further behind.

This is still a tricky balance, though, because while you need necros to be able to stick in a fight for longer than their opponents, you don’t want to make them so strong that the “can’t back off to recuperate” becomes “has no need to back off.” Given the lack of avoidance mechanics, however, necros sustain, especially healing abilities (Consume Conditions is fine), need serious help.

spoj.9672:

glyph of elementals is better than flesh golem.

Depends. If Fleshie is behaving, he’s way better than Glyph of Elementals. If he’s not, well, Charge is still useful.

It already can. The minions just have a 4% crit chance.

Necros are by far the best profession for climbing and jumping.

I’m sure an abuse can come from that.

I woudn’t say necros have high attrition. They have high resiliance to burst, but the way the class is currently set up, attrition battles usually go in favor of the opponent the longer they go on.

And necros do not have 2 HP bars. Life Force has only one similarity to health in that it gets reduced when you take damage. Everything else is different.
1. Life Force drains naturally when using it. Health does not.
2. Life Force is generated in % of maximum, health is not.
3. Health regenerates out of combat, life force does not.
4. Health can be replenished by allies, life force cannot
5. Health can be filled extremely rapidly (especially with allied support), life force cannot
6. You always have health. Not true with life force.
7. Health is vital to survival. Life force is not technically.

I could go on, but you should get the picture. Death Shroud is a damage sponge, not a 2nd health bar.

Plexxing.2978:

1) Blood Fiends’ attack is not a siphon?
2) I am aware you can’t get all the traits to buff Blood Fiend with everything.
3) When traiting with VM, his small siphon along with the others actually makes the build a decent siphon build. All those minion attacks add up too.
4) All minions can get LoSed or killed, some easier than others, why be a minion mancer if you’re not willing to accept this as part of your weakness?

1. Nope. Despite being described as such, Bloodthirst does not affect it.
2. Good.
3. It’s not really that noticable of an increase, really.
4. Because no other minion is your heal

It needs scaling.

Ironically, Blood Fiend’s attacks actually scale quite well with Healing Power at 65%. The problem is that it is the minion’s healing power.

Healing Signet heals for ~375/sec with no healing power and cannot be denied (killed).

Part of it is also because Blood Fiend’s sustained healing is actually very poor compared to all other sustained healing skills and on top of that, it can be killed off to deny you healing. On top of that, no other profession can negate their own healing. Consume Conditions is considered a staple for four reasons:

1. Strong heal
2. Reasonable cooldown
3. Total condition clear (very important)
4. Does not ever get even partially wasted by death shroud.

insanemaniac.2456:

it used to be additive among several of the possible mods (ie.. iron hide + protection + frost aura + 1 other 10% modifier = take 0 damage from power attacks). when did it change?

Pre-beta weekends, probably. Having a Guardian potentially being totally immune to direct damage while using a flame ram (and having allies blast ice fields) is pretty broken.

As it is, I haven’t seen evidence of damage reduction sources being additive.

I might suggest that people not blow him off so readily. Blackmoa is quite familiar with the profession. That said, this does seem like a thread where he’s blowing off frustration right now.

To be clear, though, Toughness is not an “overall damage reduction” like that. 50% damage reduction is actually just 2 armor compared to 1 armor. What killahmayne is refrencing is more like how armor works in League of Legends (incoming damage *(100/(100+armor))) than how it works in GW2 (incoming damage/armor). Having 2k armor means you take .05% of the incoming damage.

First, remember that Weakness is not a standard damage reduction and its effectiveness actually varies with Precision and Ferocity (because if a crit becomes a glancing blow, damage dealt is half of a non-crit).

As for the rest, I’m not entirely sure. I believe each multiplies separately, though. Weakness definitely multiplies separately from the rest.

Solori.6025:

bobomb.5209:

@ Solori

Well for starters your question is a bit silly. If there was no way to get up to the Region where it is possible to shoot from 1500, that person wouldn’t be able to get up there anyways. Regardless I will attempt to address your points. Battle of Kyhlo, Forest of Niflhel, and Legacy of FoeFire all have regions where it would be nearly impossible to fight a well placed ranged character. But that’s exactly the problem with Conquest modes when it comes to this strategy. In this situation a person can sit up and take someone down before they have a chance to reach them. It doesn’t matter that they aren’t unreachable. But that they can kill someone before that person can even move towards the threat.

However, and I assume you forgot to read this part, I specifically stated that this kind of intelligent thinking about placement is not to be discouraged. It is simply too effective though, as there are not many counters to someone picking off individuals from a distance. If this was war, I would say get over it. But this is a video game, and everyone’s enjoyment is increased (and hence profits also increase) if the game is fairly balanced. Should the team that puts it’s teams placement into consideration get an advantage over a disorganized team? Absolutely, but not so strong of an advantage as some teams are getting just because they have one person able to attack from such a safe distance.

That was not only vague.
It didn’t answer my question.
Maybe i need to revise it?

Where are these placement’s that give you a 1500 range advantage,that has no counters? No way to reliably use terrain or close the distance.

Lets give a scenerio maybe this will help.

The ranger has a capture point.
You see the ranger is now sitting on this point.
What map is there where you cant get to this capture point?

Scenerio two-

You are capturing a capture point.
You see the ranger is coming towards you.

What map is there where you can not LoS or close the distance, before losing this capture point?

This is basically what I am asking

because I haven’t seen a map where anyone can sit 1500 units and keep a point contested.

I think his point is that the Ranger himself isn’t trying to contest a point, he’s trying to clear it so his teammate can capture it.

If you are standing on point, you don’t really have much in the way of options to deal with said ranger without leaving the point.

Stay on point? You eventually die. Leave the point to kill the Ranger? You lose the point to his buddy.

That said, I feel this is a wonderful new situation for PvP. Roaming is more important now so you can take out those long-range bunker-busters. It helps break PvP out of the bunker meta while still leaving a spot for traditional bunkers.

I had a friend play during the free trial weekend and I was there to help him out with stuff. The problem? I very rapidly ran out of things to show him, because it was all blocked off for low level characters.

I wanted to introduce him to a great game, but I just couldn’t. There wasn’t anything interesting I could show him because he was only level 2.

Esplen.3940:

@Drarnor, in the case of Andal in HotW, Mesmer is better not for removing the Might, but for stealing the Might and then giving the group 25 stacks of Permanent Might. Also with Mimic, Mesmers can now obtain 25 Might onto themselves instead of only holding 3.

Of course, then you have the idiot that shouts and gives everyone Might.

Unless they fixed it already…

Might is one boon. Even at 25 stacks, it’s still just one boon, so it’s well within the area where Mesmers do better (sustained, low quantity boon removal).

Necros do better where there are multiple boons to remove, but do so on a long cooldown.

And then, there are poor necros who don’t bring anything someone else doesn’t do better…

Of course, if mobs were more likely to use large numbers of high-duration (and longer recharge) boons, Necros would become much more attractive. As it is now, if you want boon stripping, bring a Mesmer. Mobs use low-quantity and/or constant boon application, which Mesmer is far more suited for removing.

I, too, listen to the podcasts. There’s good discussion that goes on. Heck, I’ve been part of that discussion in the past.

Anchoku.8142:

I like your ideas, Lilly. Vampiric aura could be chill instead if blind to address Drarnor’s concern but Necro could use more group support and spamming more might in game only worsens the might stack problems.

I think the idea was a Leap finisher that causes an effect similar to other “aura” abilities, namely a benefit when struck and a detriment to the striker. Vampiric Aura would be pretty straight forward as a “steal health when struck” effect.

My concern on that was simply that Thieves could very easily build up pretty sizable durations of such an effect. Adjusting numbers would keep that from being imbalanced easily enough.

On a more thematic concern, is that such an effect would be extremely fitting for a Necromancer who would have absolutely no method of triggering the effect.

This was a bug fix primarily. It is one that hurts us, sure, but it’s still a bug fix.

The idea of a Dark Aura has one factor that should be considered, though: Shadow Refuge is a dark field on a class with spammable leap finishers. Thieves could get extremely long durations of this aura.

It probably wouldn’t be that big a deal, but it should be considered. Of course, then I would really want some Leap finishers on necros as the iconic health-stealing class would ironically be the only one completely unable to take advantage of the new ability to steal health from attackers.

Ropechef.6192:

oxtred.7658:

Support is irrelevant? Where’s my 5 necros speedclear?

I know right.

Something to think about.

If the only thing that mattered in Dungeons, or Fractals, (organized group content), Was Dps.

then Necromancer would have a spot in the Dungeon Meta.

Here let me say that again so you can actually think about it.

IF the only thing that was important was damage. Necromancer would be In the dungeon Meta.

No it wouldn’t. Even the highest damage necro builds are out-classed in damage by moderate damage thief and ele builds. Necro DPS isn’t actually that good. It’s not terrible, but if the only important thing was damage…Necros still wouldn’t have a spot in the dungeon meta.

unlucky.9285:

skills do drain lf in deathshroud

I don’t know where this rumor started, but I assure you, they do not. The only drain you get from using skills in death shroud is the natural drain for being in death shroud long enough to cast the skill.

Reaper’s Mark I believe has somewhat different animation for each race. On Charr, it’s a thrust of the staff forward.

drtoszi.2967:

These warrior responses…is this what it’s like when Gods become mortal?/jk

I did make and try out a warrior for a bit and even as a Necro main who LOSES LIFE FORCE JUST BY BEING IN DEATH SHROUD AS WELL AS SKILLS DRAINING LIFE FORCE, the Adrenaline drain is horrible.

I have no idea how it was before (I assume from the forums that it was mainly permanent and basically never actually drained), but as it is now, it’s almost irrelevant in combat.

1. No skill use drains life force, only the natural degeneration and incoming damage reduce life force.

2. Adrenaline did drain, but it took like a minute of being out of combat for it to do so. You were usually back in combat well before then. This was a bit ridiculous, really. It needed to get nerfed, though this recent patch does seem to have gone overboard. Now Warriors effectively don’t get their class mechanic in PvE until ~level 15, when enemies might live long enough to let you build a full bar of adrenaline and still have an opportunity to use a burst skill.

Did anyone else notice the ruins that rose up from the clouds before the “golden artifact” appeared?

What architectural style does that remind you of?

A similar case is on Guardian trident 2: both Purify and Purifying Blast (the chain skill) function as Blast finishers. Rather handy for might stacking.

Archon.6480:

Gabelstabler.6905:

i guess the pic says everything…
gg anet 100/100 points for this update…

Answer me this: how does a pet with about 1700 power critical hit for 5.7k with brutal charge which normally hits for 1.4k?

50% more damage for pet critical: 2.1k
50% more damage for signet of the hunt: 3.1k
25% more for signet of wild 3.9k

In order to hit that hard in PvP, he must have been nearly fully might stacked, as well. Even then it seems fishy. Make sure to remember to equip a jewel and runes when playing PvP, or you won’t have any stats. You also need to equip your traits or you will be very weak.

Signet of the Beastmaster+Fortifying Bond? That alone gives 12 stacks of Might to the pet.

dagrdagaz.4913:

So, the gamebreaking news is we should pause playing GW2 cos were in awe and shock cos a Dev might actually be trying to fix the ‘Flesh of the Master’ trait bug ?!

This is probably it, really. Running around in a low-level zone with minions? Considering starter zones have very frequent level-changes, it seems like the best location to try and figure things out.

Only thing I could think of is what Esplen said: permenant foods. Kinda like the birthday blaster, but different foods that already exist.

It’s really not as big a deal as people make it out to be. Necros will not get accepted into any speed runs for a dungeon, but I’ve never had a problem getting a party when I wanted.

PvP, it’s a mixed bag. For tPvP, we’re in an odd spot. Our hardest of hard counters are less popular now, but we still have to effectively justify two spots on a team. Some teams find it worthwhile, others, not so much. sPvP, necros aren’t so popular, but there’s nothing wrong with it. In a bit of a rough spot when dealing with Longbow rangers, but otherwise, generally fine.

WvWvW: well, it’s called the *G*uardian *W*arrior *E*lementalist *N*ecromancer meta for a reason. Roaming is tough, but doable if you’re careful. Necros work really well in small-man havoc groups, though.

Renewing Blast, Transfusion, Deathly Invigoration, Mark of Blood, Well of Blood, and lucky Reaper’s Touch bounces are all ways to heal your minions. There are, of course, other ways (such as sigil of water), but those are all the ways built into the Necro profession.

GreyWraith.8394:

Plexxing.2978:

I used to run foot in the grave, stability never ended knockdowns or fears.

Probably because the game wouldn’t let you activate death shroud to get stability when knocked down or feared. The DS has been weird for some time, and the recent ‘fix’ for interactions in DS moved the problem instead of correcting it.

Death Shroud has always been usable regardless of you stunned/knocked down/feared status. What you’re mistaken on is Stability ending anything. It is quite possible to have both Fear and Stability on you simultaneously if the stability was applied post-Fear (such as by an allied “Stand Your Ground!”).

Tell you what. You can swap with dead clones when necros can port to dead wurms. Sound fair?

You aren’t quite right. Getting Stability does not break stun at all, it just means that further disables don’t work.

Shielded Mind is unique because it can break other people out of stun, something that literally no other ability can do. It’s also vastly more helpful when a stun pops up that you didn’t (or couldn’t, if it came from stealth) see coming, as by that point, you want to break the stun and doge follow-up, rather than prevent the hit that already occurred.

This isn’t a matter of one trait being better than another, it’s a matter of them both doing different things that are somewhat related.

Indomitable Courage is a preventative measure. Shielded Mind is a reactionary measure.

Honestly, the only way for us to see more diversity in desired PvE builds is to overhaul mobs to be much more like players. Rapid, moderate damage attacks alone are enough to make it so pure Zerker compositions are very tough to pull off because their active defense will no longer exceed their enemy’s offense. This is the primary reason why Zerker stats are not the be-all-end-all of PvP and WvW. If you do that, now an optimal team composition might include someone who does a good job of either taking the hits or keeping allies on their feet or keeping those hits from ever amounting to much in the first place.

Factor in enemies using conditions in varying amounts and intensities, using boons in more ways than just “spam on a 3 second cooldown,” and synergizing together, and you get a much, much more varied PvE environment. We already see this with the Mordrem, Toxic Alliance, and Aetherblades. Now the design needs to spread to more enemies in the game.

Oh, and Defiant needs a rework badly to encourage control setups as well.

Cynz.9437:

Carighan.6758:

Fair point actually, even if teamed versus two might stackers in Celestial, why not bring a friend who is good at removing boons?

because all boon strips are on relative long cd while might stacking spells not, besides stripping boons doesn’t necessary favors might over other boons

To expand on this, the only boon removal skill in the necro’s toolkit that reliably strips Might is Corrupt Boon. I don’t know about Mesmers or thieves, but Guardians only have one boon strip option (granted, it’s a good one).

Siva Mira.3546:

I think the design of Might boon is to help you do more damage but what about now?

Cele gives you 438 power and condition but 20+ Might give you 700+ Power and Condition.

As I said, Might should help you do more damage but as it is now it can multiply your damage 2 or 3 time greater.

Not quite. You forget that everyone has 916 Power baseline, so once you factor in the celestial amulet, even 25 stacks of Might are only a 64.6% Power increase without accounting for runes, sigils, or traits (which all drop the percentage).

However, the Might also get multiplied by the crits and stronger multiplier provided by Celestial and conditions also get boosted, so doubling your damage is well within the realm of possibility.

sorrychief.2563:

Drarnor Kunoram.5180:

“Shield” is a generic term. Frequently in games with health, it’s used to refer to something that absorbs a certain amount of damage before it starts affecting your actual health. Well known examples of games using this form of “shield” are Diablo 3, League of Legends, Smite, and Mass Effect.

so, a 2nd healthbar?

Extension of a health bar, and temporary. Not a health bar. If it were a real health bar, it would leave the necro with full access to his skills and be healable by others. These are not true of death shroud. It’s less a health bar and more an alternate mode where you can force the necro out by doing enough damage (but he’ll have to leave it anyway at some point).

My point is that it’s not a “second health bar” because it doesn’t behave like actual health. The only similarity between health and life force is that taking damage depletes them. Other than that, they behave very, very differntly.

Archon.6480:

You can also declare all out war on conditions with Melandru runes… They work better than they look because partial seconds of condition damage are completely negated.

Heck, I’d consider Melandru runes for the stun reduction. They’re a very, very solid rune set.

RyuDragnier.9476:

Drarnor Kunoram.5180:

Quick question here, but how is Spectral Wall or Signet of Spite supposed to help? Spectral Wall does nothing about projectiles and by the time you can land a Signet of Spite, you’ve already taken at least 8/10 shots. I know people keep talking like it’s an auto-win skill, but it is still a 3/4 second cast.

Throw Spectral Wall on top of the Ranger and they’re insta-feared, thus stopping the move. Signet of Spite I really suggest just because you can throw it on the Ranger and then instantly go into Death Shroud to soak up the rest of the hits.

Sometimes Spectral Wall will fear if you drop it on them. It’s rather unreliable on that front.

Quick question here, but how is Spectral Wall or Signet of Spite supposed to help? Spectral Wall does nothing about projectiles and by the time you can land a Signet of Spite, you’ve already taken at least 8/10 shots. I know people keep talking like it’s an auto-win skill, but it is still a 3/4 second cast.