Guild Wars 2

1. Pretty sure it would do enough damage.
2. If the target is going down in the next 0.75 seconds, you may not get enough Spatial Surge damage. One or two ticks of SS + the Mantra will guarantee a tag.
3. There’s not really much else in terms of utilities that would help with mob tagging.

I mean what, Mirror Images? You will typically have more than enough clones from abilities + DE to blow full MWs on cooldown. Still, it’s an option but that leaves 2 utility slots left.

Feedback is theoretically an option for the combo field to get damage on random stuff, but the damage is so low on the confusion it likely won’t tag anyways.

nightfend.4072:

I never could figure out why ANet went to so much trouble to create a completely separate set of PvP gear, but then did not also use this gear for WvW.

1. Trying to WoW-ify the kittening game because copying Blizzard’s PvElolololol gameplay is good.

2. They have to so people pay $$ to buy gems for random PvE kitten so they can WvW on a reasonably even playing field.

Kaiyanwan.8521:

If you want to participate in DEs, the GS is a must.

Miscellaneous note: I also recommend Mantra of Pain for individual targets that get zerged that you need to land a spike of damage on.

ANet isn’t neglecting it. They’re actively eroding it with PvE gear creep.

I’d prefer if the audio for the ability were “MOVE ZIG MOVE ZIG TAKE OFF EVERY ZIG”.

Base – 50
Trait – 30
Amu – 5 [exq – 3]
Ring – 3 [exq – 3]
Ring – 3 [exq – 3]
Ear – 3 [exq – 3]
Ear – 3 [exq – 3]
Back – ? [exq – 3]
Armor slots – 2 5 2 2 3 2
Rune – ruby – 2*6
Food – 10 (power may be stronger, but this is just an example)
MH – 5 [ruby – 2]
OH – 5 [ruby – 2]

Total: 167% crit damage. I think a normal build would have closer to 150-160% and have other damage stats like more raw power or other runes.

kirito’s backstab damage result should be closer to 981 * 2500 * (2.405 * 1.15 * 2.6) / 2127 = 8.3k

Generally a DPS Thief should have a bit more raw dmg boosts (another 10-30 depending on approach), but whatever.

On a target that:

- Uses heavy exotic armor
- no +Toughness
- with no Vuln stacks (CND applies 3, so that’s usually the case)

Edit: Dropping to medium or light armor would easily break 10k. A few %dmg optimizations would also break 10. Any tier reduction below exotic would probably break 10k. Also, that’s not max power. Could go a little higher IIRC.

Parlourbeatflex.5970:

But wait! No other type of content in the game needs either; Ascended gear OR agony resistance.

If only that were true, I’d have no problems with whatever WoW-grind bullkitten ANet feeds PvEers.

Unfortunately, Ascended gear treadmill affects WvW. Hence, the game will die.

Pretty soon ANet will raise the level cap to 90 or 100, with addition gear. Next expansion will probably have Ascended+1, then Ascended+2 gear with 20% more stats each time. What a waste of a good game.

I prefer 20/30/0/0/20 for HB GS trolling. The quickness trait and immob breaking are too good.

Edit: but that’s for PvP.

If you think that confusion is literally all of a condition mesmers damage you either haven’t played the class or you play it very badly

Confusion? All?

No, but blowing Mind Wrack and Cry, 2 utilities, a phantasm, and a clone is about 75% of the damage output of the spec for a good 20 seconds.

Perhaps you should try to actually understand the combo and sequence of attacks you’re talking about so blithely.

I never said the class or spec was overpowered. I said the combo was out of line with other combos. Specifically because of how fast it comes out, which makes it more difficult to avoid and mitigate than is reasonable imo.

Hmmm. 3500 cleansed confusion tick. Hmm, player kittens up and takes 2 ticks for 7k. Hmm. Player kittens up even more and takes a total of 3 ticks for 10500 before conditions are removed.

Hmm, player gets crit by CND Mug BS for 24,000.

Hmm, player gets crit by RTL burst for 24k.

Maybe if the shatter combos (power or condition oriented) dealt >20k damage to a glass target, you’d be onto something. Maybe if the confusion were semi-reliable.

You’re mental if you think a memser requires 30+ seconds to get another full shatter off. FYI for most mesmers Mind Wrack is a 10s cd and Cry of Frustration is 20s.

You’re the one who’s using a Blink + Mirror Image combo. Don’t come crying to me because of your example. Once they recognize the Mesmer is condition centric, they can prep a light field (class depending). Shrug. If they don’t have a solution to conditions, then they’d get rolled just as easily by a P/D Thief.

Not to mention you’re acting like 3k is the most damage you’ll get when really there is the potential for so much more.

I could drop a Feedback on a player and watch them crit themselves for 14k direct damage and 7k confusion damage with a quickness volley chain. I believe I’ve witnessed that event exactly once.

I could also just use a direct damage combo on the target for 15k damage rather than hope they roll their face across the keyboard to deal half that much damage via confusions.

Is it too powerful? Possibly, by a small margin (simply because all shatters can be used to maintain minimal stacks). There’s a lot of kitten kitten that goes on WvW that would be resolved by mirroring the sPvP ruleset. Shrug.

Red Falcon.8257:

My opinion is that as long as treadmills effect PvE only they are not an issue.
PvE-only people need their time sinks, let them.

I just dont want +stats.
+stats affects WvW and forces WvW players like me to go grind PvE.

This.

I honestly don’t give a kitten what PvEers have to grind to do more kittenty PvE.

But forcing players to grind fractals for kittenty gear to maintain parity in WvW sucks balls.

Kaede.1267:

Maybe if the ascended items had like double the exotic stats, then it would be a gear treadmill, but as they are right now…they are not much more than mere AR holders, which is redundant if you don’t do Fractals to begin with.

Ascended gear has 14-25% more stats depending on the stat with 1 infusion. I don’t know if you can get a second infusion for another stat bump because I don’t know much about PvElore.

Red Falcon.8257:

Nope.
You can get ascended by just doing laurel dailies or one daily fractal.
Neither of these system require you to “grind” anything.

Both of those examples are the definition of grind.

They are both “go do stupid kitten PvE chores before you can go play WvW”. I’d rather not waste my time and go play some SNES emulator. At least then I can get to playing the game I want to play.

There’s absolutely no reason why ascended gear needs more raw stats. Just leave it with +agonyPvE_gate_stat that no one cares about and be done with it.

Fozzik.1742:

What do you think it is right now? Blowout week after week is exactly what we have, with no change in sight…no possibility of something new or different.

Er, not gonna scroll through the thread to look at what matchup you’re talking about in detail, but there is no blowout in T8. SF is winning by a pretty wide margin, but they only have 55% of the total score. A blowout is when they’re winning by a hell of a lot more than that, lmao.

You’re telling me that you don’t try to make your opponent waste their condition removals on more frivolous things like the 4 stacks of confusion from Mind Wrack?

So, the Mesmer has used a full Mind Wrack then used a combo to get 8 stacks of Confusion. That’s something like 75% of their damage output.

So what you’re telling me is that 2 condition removal events will basically neuter this overpowered opponent. Nerf!

I’m not even going to comment on the idea that Shrug It Off is something to be concerned about.

Off the top of my head there’s something like ~1-2 traits for almost every class that grant completely passive condition removal, as well as a ton of traits that grant it in tandem with another ability.

Though I would like to see an AoE ability that hits for over 3000 non-crit every 5 seconds.

Given that Confusion cannot crit, you’re not really in a position to demand that the AOE does not crit.

Generally speaking: Mirror Blade (2 targets), Whirlwind Attack, Hundred Blades, Mind Stab (crit), iBerserker, Cluster Bomb, Thief Dagger 4 (on 2 targets), Guardian GS whirl, half a dozen Elementalist AOEs (some require crit) all qualify. A few Ranger attacks do as well with the piercing trait and opponents in a line rather than a circle. Warr longbow cluster does. Warr rifle channel does with the same piercing / line conditions as the Ranger.

Zzzz. 3k is not a big deal.

Edit: Most of those are slightly over 5 seconds, but close enough. Glad they’re less than the 3x second Confusion stack example though, phew.

Focus is OP. I think I’ve used that as my offhand for 90% of my Mesmer playtime.

I think it’s acceptable to apply on both offensive and defensive skill use, as long as we’re talking about using skills. Proc’ing on other things like dodge and attunement swapping due to traits seems silly and should be adjusted.

Although it is funny.

Attic.1562:

‘Cause making someone (and all the guys near him) voluntarily stop fighting so your friends can wail on him with impunity isn’t worth anything at all is it?

Or they could just cleanse it. Autocleanses wouldn’t proc the Confusion effect. Ally cleanses wouldn’t proc it. Etcetera.

Using a generic cleanse would only inflict 1 tick, and 1 tick isn’t worth 2 utility cooldowns, an F2, and a dodge.

1 tick of 8stack Confusion is the same damage as when I press “2” on a 5 second cooldown. You’re saying the condition Mesmer had to press 7 8 E F2 on a 3x second cooldown. Shrug. You’re barking up the wrong tree here.

Try going back to the real arguments, or learn more about the Mesmer class to understand what is or is not overpowered about Confusion.

Attic.1562:

Using multiple skills to try to achieve one powerful effect is the whole bloody point of combos to begin with. It is something inherent in the system.

So mesmers use the same amount of effort and resources that other players use to execute their combos, but for some reason get one that is way harder to avoid because of how fast it happens.

Now if the utilities and cooldowns burned actually dealt 15k damage directly, without requiring that the target use 4 abilities into a Condition that they can witness on their bar …

Nevertheless, I wouldn’t mind if Confusion were nerfed in WvW — but I see that as an overarching “sPvP and WvW” ruleset discussion.

The “by the book” approach is to:

1. Use Into the Void / Sword4 daze / GS knockback / Chaos Storm daze / F4, etc to secure a stomp or to interrupt a rez.

2. Other tricks include using F3 to interrupt the knockdown/counter from the downed player (easiest on slow casts like Warrior knockdown, although plenty viable even on Rangers with good timing — the daze will prevent the cast rather than merely interrupting).

3. Brute force happy time is when you use extreme DPS to down the rezzer. I usually accomplish this via Mirror Blade (which loves two targets standing next to each other), iBerserker (even happier with 2 targets), iWarden (laughing my kitten off at a person standing in 1 spot to rez while hurhurhurhur Warden is going hurhurhurhur), with a happy time Mind Stab + Mind Wrack to finish things off. (Mind Stab is great on multiple targets standing next to each other doing the happy rez circle jerk).

Of course, this means you now have 2 people downed.

My record for chain-downing chain-rezzers is 5 players. Not that many I think, but it was still funny.

Foddzy.6291:

Also, if a confusion build is not using Staff, they are doing something wrong.

I am double facepalming, because one facepalm is simply not enough.

LOL, so much bad info in this thread You couldn’t be more wrong about the staff/confusion builds. facepalm indeed

Oh dear. Please explain to me how a confusion Mesmer, who needs a lot of condition damage to perform, would use anything else except Staff and x/Pistol (or x/Torch if they’re feeling frisky)?

Sidenote:

Any Mesmer that knows how the kitten to play the class is also getting a non-trivial amount of Confusion out of the Staff as well.

Let’s call this “triple facepalm”.

Attic.1562:

They could probably add confusion back onto the mesmer scepter 1 skill if they removed removed the ability to almost instantaneously crap out 8 stacks of confusion onto any group of people within 900-1220 range every 30 seconds.

Dunno, that’s half an endurance bar, 2 utility skills, and an F2 in order to apply a stack of conditions that doesn’t necessarily do any damage at all.

Seems like a big investment for unreliable payoff.

Last I recall, all the golems in HOTM have higher armor than glass cannon players by a decent margin. I always get higher numbers for every class on actual players.

As long as the matches are fair, and ALL 3 of us deserve to be there, as it stands SF DOESN’T belong here. They’re a Tier 6 population at least, all we want is for Anet to make some adjustment to the math that’s keeping them here for so long, they’ve clearly demonstrated they’re superior in numbers, so why do they have to remain here so long?

People need to check http://mos.millenium.org/matchups#NA.

It seems like the problem here is that SF is only getting like 2 rating for their win. it would take them over 40 weeks of winning T8 to make it into T7.

If you look at Ehmry Bay in T5 or w/e, they’re on track for +32 rating for their stomp. Now, I’m personally skeptical that SF “should be in T6”. To me, that sounds like T8 players that probably don’t really grasp higher pop servers and overrate SF.

However, that doesn’t change the fact that 40 weeks of SF in T8 is probably a bit lame at best, and SF should have the “opportunity” to get crushed (or to succeed) in T7 within … 10 weeks? 5 weeks? 3 weeks? Something significantly quicker than the 110 rating deficit at 2.3 rating per week.

Seems like the calculations for rating changes needs some sort of softcap upper and lower limits to ensure that rating DOES change a decent amount per week.

The main thing that needs to change immediately related to confusion is that “random kitten” like traited dodge rolls should not be proc’ing it. That’s silly.

Other than that, I can’t be in favor of Confusion nerfs in WvW unless all sPvP rulesets are mirrored to WvW (which they should be). This includes things like Thief CND damage nerfs, Berserker gear crit damage nerfs (by a huge amount), sPvP gear in general. This would automatically mean no ascended crap in WvW, which would be awesome.

Oh, I don’t have an Axe/WH build set up properly yet. I use GS//Sword/WH to run around the map fast (close to perma Swiftness with fast Leap/Rush/WW/Leap on top).

With Axe/WH I would go something like x/0/20+x/20/x. I personally like Stances, so I would go Axe/WH + stances. Not sure how the exact numbers would pan out. Or, could just go 30 Tactics for the Shout heal and go Shouts instead.

I’d use Warhorn because WH is boss, but it really depends on what exactly you plan on doing. Mace and Shield are also common. Mace is probably the best dueling OH, shield counters megaburstlolorz, Warhorn gets you from point A to point B, among other things.

Tbh there’s too much in the way of veiled trolling, mockery, whining, crying, accusations, and basically everything because the mods stamp hard when it’s done honestly.

I mean these things get resolved way more quickly when people can be honest. For example, if Kreen could simply say “you guys were kittening spying” without getting infracted, and covenn respond with “screenshots/audio or it didn’t happen kittenwad”, then that would end the discussion in 2 posts, rather than beating around the bush for most of a page for fear of infractions.

jportell.2197:

Kelo.4370:

Yes lets nerf the only source of condition damage Mesmer have. Seriously though if yer getting kitten by confusion then DONT ATTACK! Cleanse yourself or start using a skill/heal that does then go back to attacking. That or you know don’t fight a mesmer and someone else alone.

Too bad the subculture of staff mesmers aren’t confusion mesmers. The staff has no direct confusion attack! Just an FYI. Only two weapons the Mesmer has directly cause confusion that is Scepter #3 and torch #5. Nowhere in a confusion build is a staff mentioned. :P

I bolded the relevant part of the original quote. Please l2r.

Also, if a confusion build is not using Staff, they are doing something wrong.

I am double facepalming, because one facepalm is simply not enough.

Jayne.9251:

Tried to intro some of the stuff that helped in this thread, but only a few nibbled. Frankly it takes way more energy to be angry than it does to be happy. /shrug.

T1 is obviously full of tryhards.

Edit: T1 thread.

The way damage calculations work, if the target is actually missing armor slots (e.g. so upleveled that they are missing shoulders, or a helm or something), then the damage they take is amplified a lot.

If they are “just upleveled” but have all gear slots, the damage will be more ‘normal’ like an 8k Mug.

Edit:

Ok I just read Dee Jay’s comment and laughed my kitten off. “Outplayed”. Hahaha.

Orpheus.7284:

I appreciate your test. I think the tooltip usually only states the startup/casttime but neglects the animation that follows, I believe this applies to most skills tooltips in the game (and in many other MMOs as well!)

While taking a shower this morning I had the epiphany that the delay is probably related to the hit confirmation of chain abilities.

This was particularly notorious with the Mesmer Scepter1 chain — only chain in the game IIRC that uses ranged projectiles. The result is that the next step in the chain stalls until the prior step detects. This caused a huge slowdown for Scepter111 at max range (like 5 seconds to get a chain off). This effect is obviously much smaller for melee, but is probably adding 0.25s to every AA step from raw latency. Edit: Reminds me of morale ability delays in Warhammer until they eventually got that fixed.

Minor sidenote about other MMOs: MMOs that do not use animation-timed abilities (WoW, SWTOR, Rift) and use raw “GCD” instead, do not have these kinds of issues because the animations simply override each other. Technically the animations don’t really matter at all, since its usually coded such that the attacks will more or less always trigger.

MMOs like GW2/Aion/TERA which use animation-based timing will run into these issues (and animation cancelling, and others), but personally I don’t see what’s hard about it. Just make a 3.5s animation take exactly 3.5s. Kind of facepalm to me. Giving ANet the benefit of the doubt that they can measure “0.5 seconds” as well as a guy with a stopwatch, the issue probably lies with something else like latency rather than raw “fail animation timing”.

Oh, sword4 is affected properly now? Nifty.

So I just tested a few things in-game and the results are annoying. Basically all separate attacks have additional delay and the tooltips don’t work well. Not sure if it’s isolated to 1111 chains or what.

Axe1 takes just about 3s to chain together as Orpheus noted. However, HB – 1111 – HB has a similar delay. (Untraited) HB + 10x autoattacks + HB takes about 15.5-16.5 seconds, whereas the tooltips have an expected 3.5 + 10*.5 + 3.5 = 12 second time. So, you basically lose time when using more than 1 attack in sequence (which is basically all the time every time).

So, it would require more obnoxious testing to get any further data (e.g. where the delays are being inserted).

A traited HB (~6.5s cooldown) would get about 8 * GS1. Over 10 seconds (HB + cooldown), you’d get an average of around 430 DPS because the AA has the delay all over (similar to Axe1). This is based on an extrapolation of the AAs because the cause of the 60% inefficiency (sidenote: I don’t think the DPS would improve much if I assumed HB was partially responsible, probably to 440-450). Axe1 at a 3s time for the chain nets a DPS around 549 as noted previously.

Fixing the GS sequence would involve inserting more attacks (and using less AAs because the AAs have extra delay for no apparent reason). Could probably get the DPS up to 500 or so using WA and assuming you’re still in range after it, etc. The Vuln is also notable.

Either way, it seems like ANet may want to do a serious quality pass on all the animation timing if they are actually balancing by the tooltip animation times, because those are basically wrong. If they’re not balancing by those, then whatever.

Problem is that the cooldowns are shared for your mainhand between both swaps, so you’re not really helping yourself much. Making the Blade Training trait more pervasive hits the brick wall of Sword3 being bugged (and IIRC Sword4 is also still bugged) to ignore the traited cooldown.

Sword1 is nothing particularly special, so it seems to limit yourself with no benefit except aesthetics.

I’d want to see that tested with animation cancelling on the third step of the chain, though, since it’s a channeled ability. Almost time for me to head out so I’ll try to remember to try it out tonight.

At 3.0 seconds, Axe1 would be about 5% lower DPS than HB.

I’m glad we’ve wasted all these posts getting back to the fact that we’re correct (in addition to me being correct in 100% of comments directly relevant to the topic, and incorrect in 1 tangent started by frans trolling me).

I wouldn’t mind improving Mantras horizontally (so that they are more effective in other situations), but they don’t need to be more potent.

You simply can’t have an effective balance discussion when you discount the scenarios where Mantras are strong or Null Field overrated among other things, else you will tend to over-buff them.

Edit:

The AOE concept is interesting, but it would be more appropriate for a Trait. E.g.:

- Remove HM. Make all Mantras 3 charge baseline. Increase the cooldown of Mantras by 1/.8 = 25%.

- HM trait now makes Mantra effects a small AOE.

This would overpower Mantra of Recovery, though. People would also still complain about the base mechanic.

Edit2:

Ah, halfway between:

- Retain the 2 discharge baseline, but have HM use the effect in an AOE when you charge the Mantra. E.g. when you charge Mantra of Resolve you AOE cleanse 2 conditions.

This still wouldn’t change anything related to purely baseline Mantras, however.

Another partial solution:

- Mantras execute their effect in an AOE when charging but now only have 1 charge.
- HM increases charges to 2.
- MoD would need its base daze duration increased a tad to compensate
- MoC would need +1s on the boon.

Edit3: I suspect that if ANet made them all inherently AOE with no other changes, you’d have an immediate problem with MoRecovery in general, and MoResolve would remove too many conditions, so they’d nerf that to 1. It would be balanced for MoC though. MoD would be somewhere in the middle. AOE Daze too good canyouimagine.

For “all AOE”, I would say:

- MoRecovery = no AOE
- MoD = small AOE
- MoPain = moderate AOE size
- MoResolve = AOE component only removes 1 condition (maintain 2 on self), moderate AOE
- MoC = moderate-large AOE

Except they’re not lacking in oomph. MoResolve, for example, removes critical conditions many times more often than Null Field.

Null Field is a general tool for more situations. MoResolve is a more potent tool for fewer situations. Hence it has more “oomph”.

Definitely is.

Not many things better in a 20 v 20 than popping a Feedback every 10 seconds.

20 Insp because of Warden’s Feedback and Medic’s Feedback.

I remember that week because we rotated with ET and JQ blamed HOD for being “kingmakers” for second place in T1, trying to keep ET and JQ apart. That’s when we got Menaace on JQ, lols.

Good times.

Maugetarr.6823:

Occasionally with a 60% crit chance you might hit more than 3/5 attacks as crits, but you will also hit fewer than that too. In the long run, you should average about 60%.

And 60% is not 0%, thank you.

Delofakitten.4231:

The number of times you can use Resolve doesn’t outweigh the versatility of Null Field. Besides, Null Field removes around 5 Conditions, at most Resolve will get 8 in the same time frame, but remember you won’t have pulled any boons plucked off your enemy, nor any confusion/chaos armor from proccing the field, etc etc etc. Yes it’s usable about twice as often (20 sec CD 3 and 1/4th sec cast) as Null Field (45 sec CD, 1/4th sec cast), and does 1/4th of the effect.

Shrug. It depends.

I tend to only care about poison (because of heals) and immobilizes (because of instant death) in WvW. Sometimes I care about burning/weakness/chill, but those aren’t as significant. The rest are pretty irrelevant unless I’m seeing huge stacks of bleed/vuln.

Also, Null Field is simply not going to remove 5 conditions. Seems more like 3 is a usual number, although I suspect it can hit 4 if you’re actually standing in one spot that long. You’re also assuming that the enemy is standing in melee range and uses significant boons.

Furthermore, Null Field is a poor solution when you just got nailed with poison, weakness, immob, 3 stacks of bleed, and 15 enemies just tabbed to you in WvW. Not only does it take a second to drop, but then you have to wait for it to peel conditions off. You’ll probably be dead by the time you get the necessary conditions removed so you can run through the portal (or at least immob so you can dodge through it).

MoR occurs instantly, dodge, safe. You can hit a [mantra] heal mid-dodge (because it’s instant), with no poison reduction (because MoR is instant), etc.

No one’s disputing that one click of Null Field is significantly stronger than one click of MoR. But, Null Field is inferior for many specific applications and MoR can stand on its own.

So the light field effect remains after you use Into the Void?

Sounds nifty.

Inc nerf.

Message Body length must at least be 15.

rahuri.7048:

I’m sorry? I saw a 20 man SoR zerg running around

Lol 20 players = zerg.

Oh man.

bucthree.7301:

According to the MOS charts, Jade Quarry has been 1st 4 times, 2nd 10 times, and 3rd 3 times (we were also almost bumped to T2)

JQ was in T2 for what was it, 1 or 2 weeks?

Prezzy.2783:

And as for EasymodeX – axe can have perma fury and perma might now can it? No.

Uh ……… yes?

Orbs have more raw stat totals than runes x6 (except for divinity), so many players opt for that, although they lose whatever unique bonuses the runes provide.

Not entirely thief-y, but: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lnmeANrooC8

Gets my blood pumping.

skcamow.3527:

Can you elaborate on why taking runes of the pack or emerald orbs with this build doesn’t make sense? I’ve since gone a different route with the jewel buffs (though retained the runes).

Err, they use the same slots. Unless you’re using a mix like 4 and 2 or 2 and 4, in which case you probably want to specify the #.

Or if you were referring to the weapon slots, but you said ‘Armor Upgrades:’. You could have been referring to the accessory slots as ‘armor’, but you probably would have said Exquisite or ‘gem’ or ‘jewel’ and not Orbs, so that seems unlikely.

Prezzy.2783:

Please dude, just conceed this argument.

Basically what you are saying is that WITHOUT any traits the axe is better?

1. I’m saying that GS has a lot lower baseline DPS.

2. Better for what? Better for single targets? Can you maintain 25 Might stacks on a single target? Do bosses matter or trash? Which bosses?

3. You don’t even know what argument you beseech me to concede.

When traited, running perma fury and perma might axe will always be a warriors 2nd choice

Unless the Axe build has perma Might perma Fury. Or the GS can’t maintain perma Might due to the # of targets.

Etc etc.

My MoP crits for 4800 on upleveled glass. 3.5-4k on level 80 glass. /kitten.

The main [damage] portion of Mantra of Pain is not supposed to be used in place of your other attacks. If it were better DPS than Sword1, then you could virtually replace a weapon with a utility slot. That’s not the intent.

The point is to elevate your burst damage. For a short period, you can increase the DPS of your Spatial Surge from 780 to 1400 DPS.

The other benefit specific to this build is that you can rotate the charge / discharge sequences with MOR for moarhealz. I mean face it — you maintained a good fraction (most) of your autoattack DPS while AOE healing.