Guild Wars 2

This is how it was and will be working again once dishonor is fixed.

Not sure why people think this happened. What evidence is there?
The logs show MMR deltas on everyone.

The only changes we made last week is the search range for ladder position.

Aenaos.8160:

Evan Lesh.3295:

Mysticjedi.6053:

Evan Lesh.3295:

Before there was a ready check there wasn’t a problem because you’d just hop into the match once you finished loading. Of course this meant more AFK players.

The servers were completely rewritten at the end of 2014, and now there more sophisticated requirements to getting the PvP servers in sync with the game servers wanting to pause/destroy your roster when you hit load screens. The more people queuing outside the mists without fixing this, the more likely people will start seeing problems like ‘random’ dishonor.

That makes more sense to me.

So what about what another said just adding more to HotM. It would be nice to have a mystic forge back, maybe some crafting stations, or what about putting in some HoT type challenges.

I’m just a programmer :P I can’t speak to that unfortunately. But I would totally enjoy a jumping puzzle in HotM

And what would happen when you are few steps away from the end of the puzzle and the queue pops?Currently the server puts you at the start of the map every time you
log back in it.
How about a map that remembers your last position in it?

I remember this used to work, I need to go check that out…

Mysticjedi.6053:

Evan Lesh.3295:

Before there was a ready check there wasn’t a problem because you’d just hop into the match once you finished loading. Of course this meant more AFK players.

The servers were completely rewritten at the end of 2014, and now there more sophisticated requirements to getting the PvP servers in sync with the game servers wanting to pause/destroy your roster when you hit load screens. The more people queuing outside the mists without fixing this, the more likely people will start seeing problems like ‘random’ dishonor.

That makes more sense to me.

So what about what another said just adding more to HotM. It would be nice to have a mystic forge back, maybe some crafting stations, or what about putting in some HoT type challenges.

I’m just a programmer :P I can’t speak to that unfortunately. But I would totally enjoy a jumping puzzle in HotM

That player must be pretty dedicated to get to rank 20 and Ruby division in 2 days.

There is an upcoming change that will help with the problem described.

Before there was a ready check there wasn’t a problem because you’d just hop into the match once you finished loading. Of course this meant more AFK players.

The servers were completely rewritten at the end of 2014, and now there more sophisticated requirements to getting the PvP servers in sync with the game servers wanting to pause/destroy your roster when you hit load screens. The more people queuing outside the mists without fixing this, the more likely people will start seeing problems like ‘random’ dishonor.

While it may appear to work, there are certainly technical hurdles to deal with before this could be a feature. If lots of people were doing this right now, there would be a lot of people hitting load screens and getting dishonor. It’s mostly related to technical jargon, but you’ll have to trust me that people would have bad times unless we fix some complicated things on the back end.

Frenk.5917:

Evan Lesh.3295:

The algorithm is explained here:
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/PvP_Matchmaking_Algorithm#Match_Prediction

Translate please

The average ladder position, rank, mmr, and max party size from each team is compared. The further away these are, up to the maximum specified in the configuration, the more skewed the odds. Each component counts for a different amount of the prediction. For instance, ladder position counts for 5/8th the prediction.

The algorithm is explained here:
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/PvP_Matchmaking_Algorithm#Match_Prediction

The season is currently configured to end on the 26th at 00:00 UTC. This would be at the 4pm reset on the 25th PST. There will be a 1 hour grace period to allow matches to end before rewards for the guild team leader board are distributed.

Juba.8406:

Evan Lesh.3295:

Juba.8406:

Evan Lesh.3295:

Soon™

fixed

Thank you. Also the changes should be live.

Can i ask what the changes are ?

Because i am afraid to solo Q again and lose 17 pips in a row

Division range per-match should be much smaller.

Juba.8406:

Evan Lesh.3295:

Soon™

fixed

Thank you. Also the changes should be live.

Mr Godlike.6098:

Evan Lesh.3295:

Mr Godlike.6098:

Evan Lesh.3295:

We are still watching this thread to determine configuration changes for ladder search range.

I still insyst that that you need to repay players for makeing this change now. Whole idea of mmr change was great but you should’ve wait to the end of season. Right now we have kinda random system who can give to your team anybody in your divison. Now even if you are good player your blocked from reaching higher divisions, because new mmr needs to adjust (to start giving you fair matchups) and probably it might start working at very the end of season.

It would be great if you could give ppl some pins at the end of this season (as little sorry for this guys). For example one pin for every earned division.

There have been no changes to the way MMR matchmaking works. The two changes we made were: Parties use highest division and the division search range expands more to shorten queue times.

Sorry for misunderstanding:) My point is: Still you made a change that started this thread, change was to early and loads of ppl are loseing their hard earned pins because of this… right now…and it’s depresing me.

I see! We’re actively working on this issue as best we can and expect to see improvement soon!

Mr Godlike.6098:

Evan Lesh.3295:

We are still watching this thread to determine configuration changes for ladder search range.

I still insyst that that you need to repay players for makeing this change now. Whole idea of mmr change was great but you should’ve wait to the end of season. Right now we have kinda random system who can give to your team anybody in your divison. Now even if you are good player your blocked from reaching higher divisions, because new mmr needs to adjust (to start giving you fair matchups) and probably it might start working at very the end of season.

It would be great if you could give ppl some pins at the end of this season (as little sorry for this guys). For example one pin for every earned division.

There have been no changes to the way MMR matchmaking works. The two changes we made were: Parties use highest division and the division search range expands more to shorten queue times.

Thiefz.3695:

I have noticed a lot of changes to my matches as well. One side will be all ruby with maybe a diamond and the other side will be ruby, sap, emerald,amber mix. I get that you get placed based on the highest person in your group as per the most recent snap shot but it also seems like when that happens, it forms a team based on any range of ranks within that pairing. Almost like the group rating equals 1 or two tiers higher than the lowest rank. So basically, not only does the “party” get’s upleveled but the “team” get’s downleveled.

This is a product of the parties with high rank players waiting longer in queue because we’re not using the lower average rank anymore. The longer they sit in queue, the wider the ladder position search range becomes.

We are still watching this thread to determine configuration changes for ladder search range.

I looked into the match from the OP and we are making some configuration changes based on it that should improve matchmaking for unranked and ranked.

This is because forfeits (not losing points with teammate disconnects) are effectively disabled while we fix the dishonor false positives that were happening much more frequently than actual disconnects.

Configs have been updated. There should be less of a spread in ladder positions now.

Part of the reason this is happening is because this season matches on both MMR and ladder position. Someone could have a lower ladder position, but have a very high MMR. Since they have to sit around a long time waiting for close MMR players, their ladder search range is also increasing at the same time.

The change to long queue times went out last night, so this is the result of that. The search range is clearly expanding too much, so we’ll reconfigure it to be a tighter search again.

This has not been forgotten.

brz.1509:

Congrats! In general I’m really excited about these changes and I hope it’ll lessen the need for a separate solo Q (the thing I really want). That said…

Gaile Gray.6029:

While we’ll be using divisions to match you against your immediate opponents, we’ll still use your MMR to place you on teams with similarly skilled players (from your division point range) to help ensure that you’re not forced to play with individuals that are of a much higher or lower skill than you.

If match prediction is based on division/pip count within a division, this is going to create situations where low MMR players end up with extraordinarily long loss streaks based on the fact that the bad players in a match will end up on one team. This is especially true at the start of each division and it’ll be exacerbated in times of low player population.

This can be mitigated if match prediction uses MMR to prevent low MMR players from losing pips when facing a much better team. From the sounds of the above descriptions match prediction may be using division + pip counts instead, which would be a mistake.

You bring up very good points. And the answer is two-fold:

Low MMR players losing more often is the same high MMR players winning more often. This will help the ladder better represent skill.

Because of how matchmaking is changing, the prediction can now use MMR instead of ladder position. This will create a more accurate prediction, and is actually required for players to distribute properly over the season.

Another note: We’re making some changes to allow high division players to get matches faster to help combat the long queue times.

Krysard.1364:

Gaile Gray.6029:

While we’ll be using divisions to match you against your immediate opponents, we’ll still use your MMR to place you on teams with similarly skilled players (from your division point range) to help ensure that you’re not forced to play with individuals that are of a much higher or lower skill than you.

So this means you will be matched with and against same division players, but your teammates will have your same mmr?

Yep.

Galandil.9641:

SlayerSixx.5763:

This is all good and well, but what’s stopping a diamond tier group of friends from having one dude make an amber account? I’ll assume that you’re also changing the pip rewards then, making it so that it doesn’t matter if there’s a tier 1 amber with a clean MMR on the winning team.

Someone please clarify.

This is exactly the same thing that I was thinking while reading that paragraph.

If the pips loss/win depends on the higher div player of a team, than this change is good. If not, it will still not prevent some kind of abuse.

Match prediction is also based on the highest division player in the party.

Doon.2364:

That’s an excellent point. Gaile, will the pip rewards be same regardless of player’s division so that they don’t exploit the system with smurf accounts?

Pip rewards are based on team performance. The only reason the amber would get different points from a legendary is because the amber doesn’t have backwards progress. The amber won’t get more points because they’re beating legendary players because that is control by match prediction.

Forfeits (not losing pips when teammates desert) are currently disabled while we fix the dishonor false positives. There will be more info on this later.

The Ace.9105:

Snip

I’m not entirely following some of what you said, but I will say some things back to see if it helps:

Solo players each have a Glicko rating and a ladder position. Both are updated at the end of a match based on the results and values of the other team. The Glicko algorithm does not care about fair matches, it merely takes results of matches and updates ratings according the the outcome. As for Glicko vs Elo, they perform the exact same function for our purposes, but Glicko is more accurate.

Aside from this, we have our matchmaker. This is not part of the actual Glicko algorithm, but instead uses Glicko ratings along with ladder position and other metrics in a way that attempts to make fair matches. The way it does this can be seen on the wiki. While each team average is attempted to be balanced, we still don’t want the spread on each team to be large either.

The last part is the prediction. This is not actually part of matchmaking, but is part of our ladder formula. It is a very simplified approximation, meant for players to understand, that we use after the matchmaker has created a match with the most similar players it could find.

As for what changes would most improve leagues, you’ll have to wait for more info on that.

Edit: Snip, moving to the new, more appropriate thread.

To clarify, the player isn’t actually amber. It’s a UI bug. We do not make matches of players more than +/- 15 to 30 points away (depending on wait time).

I am fixing the UI bug right now.

Checked the logs and that player had relatively close ladder points, but the UI won’t show correctly if they NEVER connected to the match.

Melanion.4892:

It’s possible that they were in a party with one of the diamonds, then left the party via the chat command in order to not be told that he was abusing the mmr.

The scoreboard brackets avoid this as it pulls from the PvP roster made from the party, not the party itself.

That’s… interesting. Can you PM me an unedited screenshot so I can lookup the match?

Both of those tables are inaccurate. I just got my official wiki account, and I’ve slowly started to update the matchmaking page. I will try and update the ladder point tables today.

We are investigating this issue.

MMR updates immediately. Keep playing

This will be changed for an upcoming update so that disconnecting will not cause a desertion for party members if they win. The player who abandoned the match will still get a desertion.

Slyverine.7081:

Last game i played with a 4 man party, one Dc ,we won the game but we all lost 2 points. Is this intented;

This is getting fixed!

Deimos Tel Arin.7391:

what about someone who disconnected right before their team won?

for example,
evan was in blue team, leading at 490 team points, crushing red team at 100 team points.

the team score ticks 498 but evan was disconnected due to client crash etc.
evan gets a loss and branded as a deserter.

now tell me, how would evan feel?

If Evan disconnected right before he won, he wouldn’t have been gone longer than the grace period and he would still get a win and a pip (but no rank points or reward track).

You can progress them in all the seasons during the first year.

You have 2 minutes to reconnect before getting dishonor. This duration is a fine balance between load times, and how long someone can be gone without causing a loss.

Laodike.8640:

1. Why does the whole team get a loss, if someone disconnected and doesn’t make it back in time even if they win the match?

2. The dishonor of missing the queue and of being afk should be separated. I got one disconnect and missed after that the queue and had to wait 30 min is ridiculous. Basically i had to wait 30 min for missing the queue pop. And this with queue times over 5 min.

3. Your system punishes players who play your game, cause you implemented it the way that it crashes around 1-2 times a day. 2 min. are very short, since your login server lags after a crash.

4. I don’t see the sense in having a dishonor system for premade teams.

1. This currently only effects parties, not the whole team. This is being fixed for victories.

2. The system is designed to discourage players from doing bad thing regardless of what that bad thing is. Match accept might be something to separate though since it doesn’t effect a match that must be played. Something to think about.

3. Not exactly sure whats going on here, but if you’re consistently getting crashes, you may be having OOM problems and could benefit from the 64-bit client.

4. Dishonor should affect the game result of premades so that 1 person can’t prevent a loss from affecting their friends. Only the person who disconnects actually gets a dishonor timeout. Otherwise see #1.

kmark.8519:

I think to solve this issue, there should be an optional checkbox for players.
For lower levels, using the checkbox you accept that you can rolled in with higher lvl players (optionally, with higher rewards), and for high level players, the checkbox would let them allowed together with lower level players (with probably decrease their loss and gain by 30% if they do).

With this, players will have a free decision if they want to get rolled together with high/low league players with some consequences.

I personally kind of like the idea of this. I used this feature in Heroes of Newerth depending on my mood. You could select shorter queue times with worse quality matches or longer queue times for better quality matches.

Looked at your history and confirmed you got a point as expected. Your client may have not updated right away, but you have gotten at least 1 point for every victory.

It’s on the first tab of the PvP panel, just at the bottom. You need to scroll down to see it.

When teammates disconnect and you lose, the game counts as a forfeit which does not lower pips. This would not be the case, though, if they were in your party or reconnected within the grace period.

I took a look at your record and here is what I see:
You had a decently high MMR already in ranked. When the season started, you went on an amazing win streak which, paired with more volatile ratings, shot you up even higher. It now appears to be settling back down to where you were before leagues.

Remember that when playing in a party, your MMR is boosted. Also the population in ranked is much higher than before, so ratings will be shifting around as new and old players come into Ranked and establish their skill level.

Thanks for the feedback and I expect your streak to turn around soon!

I would wait longer than 3 days and at least until after we enable decay before making a judgement on how the team leaderboard will settle out. It is not our intention that a single team of players has the time to possibly keep that many entries at the top of the leaderboard.

This isn’t your MMR, but your ladder position. We could let matchmaking expand the ladder position cutoff, but then we’d have a lot of players complaining that they keep getting matched with people outside their division. We’d have to let this happen pretty slowly still.

How long would you be willing to wait before going significantly outside your division for matchmaking?

The restriction was removed from the conquest game mode for the purpose of mode preferences, not the entirety of ranked arena.