This sounds like a bug. I will follow up.
Forfeits (the result you get when a teammate abandons the game) do not count towards the loss streak but is included in games played.
There is a hidden mechanic that after switching maps, the game auto-consumes bouncy chests down to 4 remaining. It’s a confusing oversight as the normal procedure is to finish a match and leave the map before opening all the boxes. The items and currencies are in your inventory and wallet.
Configs were wonky for the first 30 minutes of the season in case some people here played during that period.
There is a hot fix coming.
You get everything.
season 3 we get both
i.e.red – blue
8 – 8
8 – 9
9 – 8
8 – 9
9 – 8something like that maybe.
otherwise, one team gonna have slightly higher overall MMR.
Season 1 would have been closer:
6 – 7
6 – 5
5 – 5
5 – 4
4 – 4
Your season 2 example is accurate, though could be closer in some circumstances.
Season 3 will be like a sorted version of season 1:
4 – 5
4 – 5
4 – 6
5 – 6
5 – 7
You will also get achievement progress!
This should be fixed now.
Thanks for letting us know. We’re looking into it.
Interest in polls for PvP is noted.
1) 15 was a good number to use for all divisions such that you can’t matchmake on either side of an entire division. We have the ability to control where this number starts, and how long it takes to expand to a stopping point to ensure certain worst-case matchmaking times.
2) This is fair because there isn’t an MMR jump when you cross division boundaries.
3) We have not considered this. It’s also more complex that just losing divisions.
4) Player’s would get an mmr relative to their division that would all of a sudden be inaccurate when/if they cross divisions.
5) Yes
6) There will be matchmaking changes that strike a balance between season 1 and 2.
If we used a different mmr, we could start fresh (bad matches for a while) or copy over the current ranked mmr and let it deviate from there.
In all honesty…what do you think?
Ofcourse current MMR and let it deviate from there.
If players have inaccurate league mmr, then we’d copy a bad value. I personally prefer to have a single rating because the more ratings we have, the less accurate they all become because of split playtime. Ideally players should have relatively the same mmr on and off-season, but that is dependent on the styles of matchmaking.
I’d assume off-season ranked would use unranked/pre-league matchmaking. There we be no pips or division matchmaking at all.
If we used the same mmr, we would know for sure if people’s rating are borked if they change drastically during the off-season.
If we used a different mmr, we could start fresh (bad matches for a while) or copy over the current ranked mmr and let it deviate from there.If you’ll know for sure by using the same mmr. Please do it. I want to know if perception matches reality with firm numbers. Please.
I suppose what I said isn’t entirely true. We can compare split off-season mmr with on-season mmr just fine and probably much easier. It just may take longer to get another settled mmr that’s accurate opposed to letting a possible inaccurate mmr correct itself.
I’d assume off-season ranked would use unranked/pre-league matchmaking. There we be no pips or division matchmaking at all.
If we used the same mmr, we would know for sure if people’s rating are borked if they change drastically during the off-season.
If we used a different mmr, we could start fresh (bad matches for a while) or copy over the current ranked mmr and let it deviate from there.
This —>||<-- close to having this thread closed for going off topic.
The core desire behind wanting ranked back sounds like expected player behavior is different in the two arenas. If we enabled ranked in the off-season, would players expect to have a separate mmr from league seasons, or the same?
More… Llamas?
But seriously what would you like to see on that vendor?
Hi,
could we maybe get hotjoin in the equation too?
Currently hot join feels just wasted. I guess it was intended as a training spot but it cant taken serious for that. If hotjoin would allow to jump in a match and as soon as there are two 5vs5 players it starts. No option to constantly leave and jump in a match or to switch in spectator mode (not in the official servers in custom servers this should stay), no autobalance, so that it gets a place of unbalanced teams were you can just play for fun. Cause playing in hotjoin currently is most of the times no pvp if your team constantly is ripped apart or you have to fight outnumbered. Bring some of the structure arenas offer to hotjoin and players who want to play 5vs5 in teams but dont want to play super competitve can play hotjoin instead of unranked.
What you described for hotjoin is just Unranked without matchmaking. If you haven’t tried Unranked, I suggest you try it because it sounds like it will give you everything you want.
We’re looking into the wrong base thing, since the spawn detection is not team-specific.
As for noticing the match start, I was thinking about playing the horn sound from match-ready. This would also fix people who minimize waiting for ready ups.
We can create a new MMR that is used during off season, but it’d have the same problems as unranked in that it is dormant 8 weeks at a time. If we continued to use ranked MMR, would that be a problem for when the new season begins? Would people try to tank their MMR in the off-season to try and get easier matches?
I mean, consider it as 3 separate modes with separate MMRs independent of each other. Unranked, Ranked, and Leagues.
During League seasons, disabled Ranked and freeze everyone’s MMR and start using Leagues matchmaking system. Replaced the "Ranked’ button with “Leagues”. After Leagues, re-enable “normal” Ranked queues with the frozen MMR from before.
It’d also give you data to compare the MMR of players who play ranked regularly and the MMR from Leagues.
It’s a fine idea, I’m just cautioning that the volatility in matchmaking that happens during off-season will still be there with a third off-season ranked arena. It just maintains the barrier to entry and split queues.
Matchmaking will perform better with more people, and only having one arena helps that. Is there anything that could create a shift in perception with unranked that would solve these problems?
Evan, would it be possible to freeze everyone’s old ranked MMR from Pre-leagues and re-enable that along with the old ranked matchmaking after every league season?
I think that’s what most players are asking for.
It’s not just because unranked has bad matchups from decayed or volatile MMR. It’s also a human nature issue from player perceptions. Unranked games typically have a more casual mindset, and as such people don’t really take the games as seriously.
We can create a new MMR that is used during off season, but it’d have the same problems as unranked in that it is dormant 8 weeks at a time. If we continued to use ranked MMR, would that be a problem for when the new season begins? Would people try to tank their MMR in the off-season to try and get easier matches?
Matchmaking will be volatile at the beginning of every off-season because loads of players are switching to an arena they haven’t played in 4-8 weeks. Players who only play unranked will distribute outwards during the season, and then not be in the exact right position once everyone else returns during off season. The other factor is that everyone’s glicko rating deviation will increase as they don’t play in unranked which will create more MMR swings for the first handful of games. The only perfect solution to this is to only ever have 1 queue available at time.
As for skilled opponents, this is really just a perception problem as some players don’t feel comfortable playing in a ‘Ranked’ mode (Plus the rank 20 requirement). In a perfect world matchmaking would just handle people who don’t take unranked seriously by way of their MMR dropping, but I understand the barrier to entry of ranked acting as a sort of filter.
Because of the way division cutoffs work, I would not want to open ranked arena during the off-season and keep the league-style of matchmaking. We would need to switch it to the old unranked matchmaking which would just be pre-leagues ranked arena.
What about Ranked do you want?
Is it standard models?
The type of matchmaking?
Is it the map selection? Now that the maps are updated, is this still an issue?
Do you want to climb the ladder until the the season resets?The ladder and match making would be nice.
I feel like 24/7 ladder would create a lot of burnout. Plus there wouldn’t be time for big balance patches to settle before the season starts.
Regarding matchmaking, it seems that two camps are developing. What about ranked matchmaking do you prefer over unranked?
What about Ranked do you enjoy more than Unranked during off-season?
Is it that you prefer climbing a ladder all the time? Or are there other particular reasons.
(edited by Evan Lesh.3295)
Glad we could be fodder for you! I play near every day, I just don’t tag up.
The load sceeen makes sense. Players are connected before the game is actually playable, but we can tell the difference. I’ll check tomorrow.
Players must be disconnected for 2 minutes (total) for it to register as an abandon.
does “at character select” count towards this time? not disconnected, not in game, definitely ruining a match.
Anything outside of the match instance counts as disconnect time.
Players must be disconnected for 2 minutes (total) for it to register as an abandon.
This is a really great analysis. I appreciate all the work you put into this. We recognize the problems that the season 2 matchmaking is causing and are looking into solutions that will provide a good experience and satisfy our goals for the league system.
This is a great topic and I’d like to hear what other ideas people have that could incentive league play in a system where division matches skill level.
Im sorry Evan, but if this is supposed to be where the majority of players should be, then why are at least 70% of the matches totally frustrating to everybody?
And please, tell me, why did I get to ruby on one account and got stuck there, whereas on another Im now nearly through Diamond?
Where exactly am I supposed to be now… ruby hell or nearly legendary?
Matches should not be volatile when you are in your ‘correct’ division, ideally. I think that is a definite area to improve on. As to why your two accounts are different, I can’t say without digging into your account histories.
@ Evan Lesh
You are confusing elite with prestigious. The elite in this case being formed by pre made team groupies who are willing to stack specific classes and builds.
You are correct. Though I am curious to know what is bad about pre-made teams that perform well reaching the top of the ladder. When I play with friends, we perform no better than solos :P
In season 1 every match was trying to be even, but this allowed players to grind through the ladder. Season 2 is the opposite of this, but players are clearly experiencing matches that are too volatile. Once players reach a division relative to their skill, the only blowout matches that should be happening would be from people coming late to the season. I feel there may be balance between the two styles of matchmaking that maintain prestige, but avoid an abundance of blowouts.
Getting ‘stuck’ in ruby is a very important topic regarding how best league should operate. We changed matchmaking to make the ladder more prestigious and so far it has done that. Divisions are aligning with skill level much better than season 1. The product of this change is that the bulk of players who hover around the middle of the mmr curve should stay in sapphire and ruby. Win rate will level out at 50% because there are plentiful players of similar mmr in the same division.
Should average players be able to climb out of the middle divisions by grinding? This removes prestige and can make matchmaking worse within a division, but always allows a sense of progression.
Should average players stay in the middle divisions because that’s where they belong at their skill level? This retains prestige and only improving skill will allow climbing, but rewards and progression stop at some point through the season.
Is there an incentive that could be added to league games for players who have reached their appropriate division and can no longer climb?
What would make legendary players happy to keep playing the game? Is it just quicker queue times? What if you could do other things while waiting? What if there was something other than leagues all together like unranked arena that legendary players could go to until more players make it to legendary?
How about asking the question what would make all the ranked players happy to keep playing the game, cause right now I am disheartened and completely de-motivated by the system. Its making me hate spvp.
Why are you disheartened? Is it the inconsistency of match quality?
What would make legendary players happy to keep playing the game? Is it just quicker queue times? What if you could do other things while waiting? What if there was something other than leagues all together like unranked arena that legendary players could go to until more players make it to legendary?
I honestly just wish we would get more rewards from legendary. Adding more rewards would make players still want to gain pips even though they are at the highest they can go league wise. I know I would play more than a few games a day if it meant greater rewards
Adding more rewards is easy, but getting them will still be difficult with hour-long queue times.
Matchmaking doesn’t count pips past the end of legendary, so prestige count won’t affect queue times.
It was said already, but with an accurate or prestigious ladder you get people on each extreme with long queue times as the population to pull from is smaller. Queue times in unranked are never this bad because we expand the mmr search range quite far over time. We could do the equivalent expansion of the ladder search range, but there will be just as many (if not more) people then complaining about all the legendary players in their ruby matches.
To summarize the issues people have brought up:
An accurate ladder rewards skill at the cost of queue time.
Reducing queue time would require frustrating players with imbalanced matches (either by skill, or just visual ladder badge).
Making the ladder more about grind gets more players to legendary, but there is no prestige.
What would make legendary players happy to keep playing the game? Is it just quicker queue times? What if you could do other things while waiting? What if there was something other than leagues all together like unranked arena that legendary players could go to until more players make it to legendary?
What’s the display name of your friend?
I’m not sure how setting your contacts status to offline would affect matchmaking, but glad to hear it’s working!
Are you saying you are unable to queue when partied with another player? You could be in the the ‘stuck’ state.
Average queue time missing is a bug that we are investigating.
Queue times were greatly reduced across the board, but ranked arena can always have longer queues if you climb the ladder faster than other people.
Ray has pushed a fix that should get rid of this problem.
We’re tracking this down. Updates soon™!
Players have to be disconnected for two minutes before they get dishonor and the other players on the team get a forfeit instead of a defeat.
Entries in that list show for downs and stomps. Skill icons show when available, but finishers don’t have icons, so they show up as skulls.
I’ll explain the lopsided games.
“Beginning with Season 2, matchmaking for Ranked matches will use your placement in your current league division as your primary matchmaking consideration and pair you against players who are placed in the same point range as you, regardless of the skill level (MMR) of the other people in that point range."
This is what they said how the season 2 MM system will work.
So actually to clarify something and please correct me if I’m misreading. The way the system currently works is it only considers MMR on your own team and not the full 10 players. So let’s say there’s 10 people queuing within an acceptable division range, 5 players are around 800 MMR and the other 5 are around 1000 MMR. Due to the fact that the system only considers making a team of 5 of similar MMR players at a time, the 5 800 MMR players will be put on one team and the 5 1000 MMR players will be on the other team. So what you get is high skilled players on 1 team and less skilled players on the other. Of course the result is the 800 MMR team getting stomped.
The result is you will never get a balanced team vs. balanced team like a team of 2 1500 MMR players + 3 800 MMR players vs. 2 1500 MMR players + 3 800 MMR players.
But with all said, I prefer the balanced team vs balanced team setup more.
The thing is eventually the teams will end up balanced. Or atleast so close it won’t matter. As different teams will progress at different rates. The 800mmr people SHOULD start fighting other 800mmr (or close) becuase they will be the only ones in range.
Atleast thats how I have understood it.
Eventually it will work out yes you are correct. As the 800 MMR people will be the only ones in the suitable division range so 800 MMR vs 800 MMR games will happen. The question is how long will that take though and if it takes too long is this system worth it as you’ll be playing lopsided games for a while. Another thing I’m wondering about is the decreasing player population amplifying this as well.
These are all good explanations (and questions) :]
Was the teammate that left in your party?
Thanks for the reports everyone. I suspect this is still a latency issue. After seeing this behavior, can you try waiting ~5 minutes to see if your main league UI updates and the game shows up in your match history?
Is there no text above the ladder UI saying “You gained 1 point for your victory” ?
It could just be a latency issue. If a party is playing and some people see point gains and some don’t, then that would be quite interesting.
Not affiliated with ArenaNet or NCSOFT. No support is provided.
All assets, page layout, visual style belong to ArenaNet and are used solely to replicate the original design and preserve the original look and feel.
Contact /u/e-scrape-artist on reddit if you encounter a bug.