Showing Posts For Exarthious.5792:
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BP is in the same demoralization spiral as DR. Will be interesting to see how this matchup plays out. It could be a pretty even match.
Once IoJ drops down next week, the winner of tier 6 each week will get to replace the loser of tier 5, and have the opportunity to get smashed by the higher population server that dropped from tier 4.
They really need to merge the lower tier servers.
Where were these AR zergs Against Kain is what i wanna know.
The same place yours were against Mag.
-K
We lost over 300 wvw players, we have no zergs.
That’s about what AR lost back when the first AR alliance broke up, but alas when you guys gained a large amount of players, you were rude week, after week, after week until you went up a tier, and experienced what many other servers have, that which is server transfers changing things so drastically, there is no way to compete with the numbers.
Kain right now has a queue on all four servers, while they trounced multiple tiers already, who barely could get a queue for a few seconds, on one map.
It’s night, and day difference brother.
Just do us all a favor and not make this into another BP troll fest like before.
Rangers aren’t bad…
Bad players are bad.
I command with my Ranger and always feel like I can play an important roll. This is true whether I’m running Solo, in a Gank group, or leading Zurg on Zurg open field.
MY ADVICE: Find a class that youre COMFORTABLE with, dont force a sparkly class to work for you and you will be GREAT.
But to directly answer your question, a well played Ranger can be absolutely LETHAL.
No need to insult the Ranger community brother. They’re free kills to any decent player, you and I both know it.
I could never lose to a Ranger as a Thief, ever.
Here, I’m going to give some great advice that will help you against Thieves. This will help you beat the average player, and give you a slight chance to beat players of equal skill.
Pay particular attention to your conditions, and those that matter most. Poison, Chill, and most importantly Weakness. Lucky for you, your Axe gives you both Chill, and Weakness all in one package. You want to be able to have the highest uptime on those three you can.
Once you find the most efficient ways to apply those three conditions in a couple seconds, you can move onto the other solutions. Your pets.
The Wolf is really the best pet to use against Thieves, one for its knock down, but most importantly its fear, when the Thief stealths. Your second pet should be the Alpine Wolf for its knockdown, and it’s Chilling Howl ability once you see a Thief stealth.
Finally, dodge. Do not blindly dodge, you need to time this. Even if that means taking a hit from a Thief in stealth so you can see them once they come out of stealth, allowing you to use your dodge when you see an attack animation, do so. Save your Lightning Reflexes for when a Thief goes into stealth, and use it after you tell your wolf to howl. This will put you out of range of backstab. This is the period of time you call your pet to you as well, afterwards.
Pay particular attention to your pet. If you’re out of range of the Thief to land Cloak and Dagger, call your pet to you as you’re opening the gap between you wider. That pet is the best source of Cloak and Dagger we have when fighting you. Don’t forget to send it in to attack as well, when you know the Thief is ready to stay visible, and fight.
(edited by Exarthious.5792)
I haven’t had much luck killing them in PvP or WvW. What I did find that works to end the fight is taking the trait that halves my fall damage, sticking to ledges and, if attacked, work on getting them between you and ledge (this usually requires lots of dodging). Then, knock them back w LB and jump down after them or continue on your way w/o finishing the fight. I run w traps most of the time and LB while making my way to a point in WvW. I will typically use Sword/Warhorn as 2nd. I frequently change my weapons while in WvW too.
In PvP, I just play what I’m most comfortable and tail my team around the map or jump on the Treb after laying down my traps to slow down anyone hoping to take out the treb.
In the end, I think it’s a LOT about environment awareness and playing what you’re comfortable with. I am always change up pets too in between battles depending on what I’m about to head into.
The devs made a post that handed us on a silver platter exactly how to beat thieves: AoE when they stealth, root them with Entangle, then unleash your pet, damage, and conditions on them. You can hit stealthed players…I only mention this because it sounds like you didn’t know based on the fact that you’re losing to thieves which really shouldn’t happen—assuming we have the typical cloaking thief build vs. a condition/defensive ranger build.
Honestly, though, you don’t even need that build though. As an example, I was testing glass cannon builds yesterday and a guy on sanctum of rall found me roaming and jumped me. I did not see him coming. He got a big hit off me (I think heartseeker) and I was down to half health with all my cooldowns popped since I had just finished a fight.
I managed to dodge some of his bigger attacks (2 seconds of protection on dodge), now that my cooldowns are back, I root him, burn, poison, and hit him with my cat. I was downed but he was almost too.
I downed him from the ground. I had my pet attack him. I’m getting close to death so I have my pet move 2 feet to me to lick my wounds. I struck the thief with lightning granted by Mother Nature, then close by throwing dirt. Thief died even after jumping me while my cooldowns were popped. I rallied and saluted my fallen foe for almost beating me. Thieves almost never beat me so I was pretty impressed.
Ranger beats cloak and dagger thief 1v1. The only thing a stealth thief can really do is continue evading such that it’s a stalemate and no one kills each other. But as soon as they try to stop blinking and instead damage me, it’s GG.
Quit giving bad information bro.
We can get out of entangle with abilities like Infiltrators Strike, Infiltrators Arrow, Shadow Step to name a few.
AoEs are only going to put them on cooldown, and your number “5” abilities which gives you your AoEs are easy to dodge out of, with minimal damage.
There is no possible way you could kill a good Thief. I’ve never died to a Ranger on my Thief, Elementalist, or Mesmer, and have killed two Rangers at once. I just don’t see how a good player could ever die to a Ranger, ever.
I’ve never seen worse information given on any forum, for any game ever.
(edited by Exarthious.5792)
stone. Still doesn’t feel like a bunker at all. Pardon? I have to get lightning reflexes, get a shortbow and greatsword and use protect me with a bear pet in order to counter thieves that turn you into stone?
I stopped reading after laughing out loud at that sentence. I don’t think I’ve ever lost to a thief 1v1 on ANY build I’ve used…maybe once or twice to very skilled players. Almost never does that happen and I cannot fathom how you lose to a glass cannon thief.
I’ll put up 1 gold per duel, and will duel you until you run out of gold from me killing you on my Thief.
My brother plays the Ranger, I the Thief, and there is no possible way a Ranger could ever beat a Thief of equal skill, or better. Once I get him off the Ranger, and playing another class he’ll realize how much time he has wasted.
The way your initial post reads, you’re not a Ranger, or not one who spends any amount of time in WvW. I havn’t seen a worse class since the EQ2 Conjy in a PvP setting, and they were really bad.
No, my money is on you actually being one of the following; Thief, D/D Elementalist, or maybe a Warrior.
As a Thief, I have to agree. Stop playing the class, and maybe they’ll help the class out.
Would be nice if they brought the Ranger, and Necromancer up to speed so they’re more competitive in WvW.
I have couple of em in T4 in few months I will start getting bunch.
Before, or after you drop down to tier 6 Friday?
I suggested ways around the change while opening up more avenues for WvW players to run their groups. That’s not being scared …. that’s being level headed and making suggestions for how to improve something as opposed to gutting it. Keep it coming though …
No, you’re coming across as a D/D Elementalist who is afraid of the changes, and screaming; “DON’T CHANGE US BRO”. That’s why you’re arguing with me because I’m ok with the changes, and I too have offered logical, and well thought out solutions to the problem.
But my solutions don’t support your; “no change to my class” solution so you’ll argue with me until one of us gives up.
So this is me giving up on discussing anything with you since you believe everything you’re doing is much better than what others you kill are doing, therefore you’re daBest, and everyone should realize this, and not balance the game. You’re no different than any other player in any other game who is trying to defend something that needs changed to balance the game.
When we destroy a Zerg in our AE group, none of us believe it is because of our skill, and we echo often in vent saying; “wow, that was kind of silly”, but that only shows a difference in maturity levels to be honest. We’ve lately been leveling a group of Rangers for a better challenge, and when we heard about this AE change, all five of us were happy to hear about it.
There, I’ve said my peace, and will discuss things with more reasonable people, who don’t feel they’re the best, and they only win because they’re the best.
(edited by Exarthious.5792)
You do know I can kill the Raven in less than 2 seconds, right? He might hit me once, while I teleport to avoid his damage, while running Omnom Pie to counter the damage you do from the Life Steals.
Running Sigil of Purity on my sword, and shortbow, with Sigil of Generosity on my dagger, I don’t ever notice conditions. Your traps are utterly worthless.
I lol so hard, of course, PvE, end of discussion xD.
PvE? I’ve leveled 7 toons to 80 in WvW alone, and the few times I’ve done sPvP, I had to hear how I was hacking when I wasn’t.
I have roughly 11k kills on my Thief account, with less than 100 deaths.
But I’m ok with you thinking I’m bad, even though you’re giving bad advice.
sorry, but WvW is not competitive gameplay >.< there is nothing competitive about killing scaled and under armored players or zergs for that matter. anet got it wrong including WvW as PvP. and hot join? were u have under r10 feast time?
Yeah because them having to nerf so many abilities, and disallowing racial abilities so you can cope with a watered down version of the game for sPvP is competitive? You do sPvP because you can’t be bothered to level a toon, and because they make the PvP for it easier for you to cope with.
I’m glad you’re having fun with a nerfed, weaker version of the game.
because it’s COMPETITIVE GAMEPLAY xD and do tournaments/paid tournaments (lol, wut, free gems xD)
No, they give you the illusion of balance, nothing more. There is a reason you’re not going to Vegas, to compete brother. I doubt GW2 will ever enter into the eSports arena remotely close to games like League of Legends, or Starcraft 2. Those are the game I play when I want REAL competitive play.
Was getting tired of WvW but if they nerf AoE it will put a coffin in the game for me.
As someone else said
Single target should be > AoE
however
AoE should not have a 5 cap limit. There shouldn’t be a limit on aoe at all. If you can’t move out of aoes that’s your own fault. If your group of 30 gets run over by 5 people using AoE then too bad. Should have payed more attention / played better. Hand-holding zergs will only make the game worse.
Seems like this game is going to end up like all the others. Giving in to making the game easier so more “casuals” can have their fun, when it ends up just ruining the game and dumbing it down even more.
I agree with you to a point. There does need to be a cap on number of players hit, but it needs to be something like 15-20 players hit by AEs.
If they do more than that, we’ll be back to having Bright Wizards, who when protected could kill massive zergs by themselves. It was utterly stupid how effective Bright Wizards were, and I played one, who was guarded 100% of the time by a Knight. <grins evily>
You can already use one Guardian to deny access to a ramp, backed by 4 AE classes, as long as two are Elementalists, and destroy massive zergs because those trying to attack “up the ramp” have limited sight, and will see their attacks obstructed, while those above the ramps, can rain down death.
Stability is the answer for any Guardian denial. You really can’t blame AoE for horrible zerg tactics.
Because Stability is never on cooldown, and they knew when going up the ramp to save it, amirite?
I mean seriously, you’re only hurting your argument.
I save stability for ramp/lord pushes. All Guardians should, Mesmer’s should save portals/Mass invis, I could go on here. Area denial in this game is only as strong as the players its used against.
What good is your stability if my Necromancer, or my Mesmer strips it from you? Are you a newer player to this game?
I hit my second ability with Stability on it? Or the next person in my group hits it, or perhaps we portal in, or invis. Or ANY OTHER ABILITY USED TO PREVENT AREA DENIAL.
Are YOU new to the game?
First the Mesmer has to get through to portal, you know this right? And if you pop a second Stability, which most classes don’t have easy access to, we toy with you, as you do nothing but die, or run back to your Zerg because you’re dying.
What other abilities to deny area prevention? Most teleportation abilities are bugged when you try to teleport UP, so they are not reliable.
I don’t think you understand how a Guardian prevents you from coming up the ramp, or you wouldn’t mention invis up, or have a Mesmer run up, and drop a portal. Here, this web page might help you out some.
Are you serious?
Every ramp in this game is large enough to walk around a Sanct/LoW/RoW. We do it every time we assault a tower/keep. In Hills keeps we pop stealth/stability and the mesmer saunters in for a portal drop. I MAIN a Guardian, the area denial is only as strong as the people you are using it against.People not using their heads in zergs doesn’t mean AoE is to strong.
lol… What server are you on? We would kill you countless times, even if you had the Zerg to back you up.
Devona’s Rest, there’s no reason for you to get bent out of shape. You’re incorrect and clearly pandering to the lowest common WvW player. Some of us actually run competitive groups and don’t lose our heads in WvW. Threatening to come kill me only demonstrates the futility of your arguement, heck I was even trying to be nice with you a bit ago while letting you explain some things.
/shrug — I should probably stop being nice to people.
If you’re as good as you believe you are, this change wouldn’t scare you, but instead give you hope that things will be made more challenging, rather than keep it in the easy mode it currently is in.
Don’t be afraid of the change, instead embrace it, and the challenges it brings.
You do know I can kill the Raven in less than 2 seconds, right? He might hit me once, while I teleport to avoid his damage, while running Omnom Pie to counter the damage you do from the Life Steals.
Running Sigil of Purity on my sword, and shortbow, with Sigil of Generosity on my dagger, I don’t ever notice conditions. Your traps are utterly worthless.
I lol so hard, of course, PvE, end of discussion xD.
PvE? I’ve leveled 7 toons to 80 in WvW alone, and the few times I’ve done sPvP, I had to hear how I was hacking when I wasn’t.
I have roughly 11k kills on my Thief account, with less than 100 deaths.
But I’m ok with you thinking I’m bad, even though you’re giving bad advice.
sorry, but WvW is not competitive gameplay >.< there is nothing competitive about killing scaled and under armored players or zergs for that matter. anet got it wrong including WvW as PvP. and hot join? were u have under r10 feast time?
Yeah because them having to nerf so many abilities, and disallowing racial abilities so you can cope with a watered down version of the game for sPvP is competitive? You do sPvP because you can’t be bothered to level a toon, and because they make the PvP for it easier for you to cope with.
I’m glad you’re having fun with a nerfed, weaker version of the game.
Was getting tired of WvW but if they nerf AoE it will put a coffin in the game for me.
As someone else said
Single target should be > AoE
however
AoE should not have a 5 cap limit. There shouldn’t be a limit on aoe at all. If you can’t move out of aoes that’s your own fault. If your group of 30 gets run over by 5 people using AoE then too bad. Should have payed more attention / played better. Hand-holding zergs will only make the game worse.
Seems like this game is going to end up like all the others. Giving in to making the game easier so more “casuals” can have their fun, when it ends up just ruining the game and dumbing it down even more.
I agree with you to a point. There does need to be a cap on number of players hit, but it needs to be something like 15-20 players hit by AEs.
If they do more than that, we’ll be back to having Bright Wizards, who when protected could kill massive zergs by themselves. It was utterly stupid how effective Bright Wizards were, and I played one, who was guarded 100% of the time by a Knight. <grins evily>
You can already use one Guardian to deny access to a ramp, backed by 4 AE classes, as long as two are Elementalists, and destroy massive zergs because those trying to attack “up the ramp” have limited sight, and will see their attacks obstructed, while those above the ramps, can rain down death.
Stability is the answer for any Guardian denial. You really can’t blame AoE for horrible zerg tactics.
Because Stability is never on cooldown, and they knew when going up the ramp to save it, amirite?
I mean seriously, you’re only hurting your argument.
I save stability for ramp/lord pushes. All Guardians should, Mesmer’s should save portals/Mass invis, I could go on here. Area denial in this game is only as strong as the players its used against.
What good is your stability if my Necromancer, or my Mesmer strips it from you? Are you a newer player to this game?
I hit my second ability with Stability on it? Or the next person in my group hits it, or perhaps we portal in, or invis. Or ANY OTHER ABILITY USED TO PREVENT AREA DENIAL.
Are YOU new to the game?
First the Mesmer has to get through to portal, you know this right? And if you pop a second Stability, which most classes don’t have easy access to, we toy with you, as you do nothing but die, or run back to your Zerg because you’re dying.
What other abilities to deny area prevention? Most teleportation abilities are bugged when you try to teleport UP, so they are not reliable.
I don’t think you understand how a Guardian prevents you from coming up the ramp, or you wouldn’t mention invis up, or have a Mesmer run up, and drop a portal. Here, this web page might help you out some.
Are you serious?
Every ramp in this game is large enough to walk around a Sanct/LoW/RoW. We do it every time we assault a tower/keep. In Hills keeps we pop stealth/stability and the mesmer saunters in for a portal drop. I MAIN a Guardian, the area denial is only as strong as the people you are using it against.People not using their heads in zergs doesn’t mean AoE is to strong.
lol… What server are you on? We would kill you countless times, even if you had the Zerg to back you up.
You do know I can kill the Raven in less than 2 seconds, right? He might hit me once, while I teleport to avoid his damage, while running Omnom Pie to counter the damage you do from the Life Steals.
Running Sigil of Purity on my sword, and shortbow, with Sigil of Generosity on my dagger, I don’t ever notice conditions. Your traps are utterly worthless.
I lol so hard, of course, PvE, end of discussion xD.
PvE? I’ve leveled 7 toons to 80 in WvW alone, and the few times I’ve done sPvP, I had to hear how I was hacking when I wasn’t.
I have roughly 11k kills on my Thief account, with less than 100 deaths.
But I’m ok with you thinking I’m bad, even though you’re giving bad advice.
Was getting tired of WvW but if they nerf AoE it will put a coffin in the game for me.
As someone else said
Single target should be > AoE
however
AoE should not have a 5 cap limit. There shouldn’t be a limit on aoe at all. If you can’t move out of aoes that’s your own fault. If your group of 30 gets run over by 5 people using AoE then too bad. Should have payed more attention / played better. Hand-holding zergs will only make the game worse.
Seems like this game is going to end up like all the others. Giving in to making the game easier so more “casuals” can have their fun, when it ends up just ruining the game and dumbing it down even more.
I agree with you to a point. There does need to be a cap on number of players hit, but it needs to be something like 15-20 players hit by AEs.
If they do more than that, we’ll be back to having Bright Wizards, who when protected could kill massive zergs by themselves. It was utterly stupid how effective Bright Wizards were, and I played one, who was guarded 100% of the time by a Knight. <grins evily>
You can already use one Guardian to deny access to a ramp, backed by 4 AE classes, as long as two are Elementalists, and destroy massive zergs because those trying to attack “up the ramp” have limited sight, and will see their attacks obstructed, while those above the ramps, can rain down death.
Stability is the answer for any Guardian denial. You really can’t blame AoE for horrible zerg tactics.
Because Stability is never on cooldown, and they knew when going up the ramp to save it, amirite?
I mean seriously, you’re only hurting your argument.
I save stability for ramp/lord pushes. All Guardians should, Mesmer’s should save portals/Mass invis, I could go on here. Area denial in this game is only as strong as the players its used against.
What good is your stability if my Necromancer, or my Mesmer strips it from you? Are you a newer player to this game?
I hit my second ability with Stability on it? Or the next person in my group hits it, or perhaps we portal in, or invis. Or ANY OTHER ABILITY USED TO PREVENT AREA DENIAL.
Are YOU new to the game?
First the Mesmer has to get through to portal, you know this right? And if you pop a second Stability, which most classes don’t have easy access to, we toy with you, as you do nothing but die, or run back to your Zerg because you’re dying.
What other abilities to deny area prevention? Most teleportation abilities are bugged when you try to teleport UP, so they are not reliable.
I don’t think you understand how a Guardian prevents you from coming up the ramp, or you wouldn’t mention invis up, or have a Mesmer run up, and drop a portal. Here, this web page might help you out some.
Was getting tired of WvW but if they nerf AoE it will put a coffin in the game for me.
As someone else said
Single target should be > AoE
however
AoE should not have a 5 cap limit. There shouldn’t be a limit on aoe at all. If you can’t move out of aoes that’s your own fault. If your group of 30 gets run over by 5 people using AoE then too bad. Should have payed more attention / played better. Hand-holding zergs will only make the game worse.
Seems like this game is going to end up like all the others. Giving in to making the game easier so more “casuals” can have their fun, when it ends up just ruining the game and dumbing it down even more.
I agree with you to a point. There does need to be a cap on number of players hit, but it needs to be something like 15-20 players hit by AEs.
If they do more than that, we’ll be back to having Bright Wizards, who when protected could kill massive zergs by themselves. It was utterly stupid how effective Bright Wizards were, and I played one, who was guarded 100% of the time by a Knight. <grins evily>
You can already use one Guardian to deny access to a ramp, backed by 4 AE classes, as long as two are Elementalists, and destroy massive zergs because those trying to attack “up the ramp” have limited sight, and will see their attacks obstructed, while those above the ramps, can rain down death.
Stability is the answer for any Guardian denial. You really can’t blame AoE for horrible zerg tactics.
Because Stability is never on cooldown, and they knew when going up the ramp to save it, amirite?
I mean seriously, you’re only hurting your argument.
I save stability for ramp/lord pushes. All Guardians should, Mesmer’s should save portals/Mass invis, I could go on here. Area denial in this game is only as strong as the players its used against.
What good is your stability if my groups Necromancer, or my Mesmer strips it from you? Are you a newer player to this game?
^^^^^
I would kill that guy 100 out of 100 times.
Traps are useless against us Thieves because we will just Cluster Bomb you if you plan on sitting inside it. If you move back, we will dodge through the trap, causing it to do zero to us. Your pet gives us the best possible target for CnD because he can not dodge it.
Rampage as one is nice, against other professions, but as a Thief, I am not trying to CC you, and I know bad thieves run Basilisk Venom, but good Thieves do not. Thieves guild is a MUCH better elite to be running.
Also something to know, Entangling Roots is worthless because Infiltrators Arrow, Shadow Step, and Infiltrators Strike allows us to teleport out of it with ease.
If you ever face a Sword/Dagger Thief who also uses Shortbow, you’ve faced a good Thief, and you will never win that fight.
this is why, u cover field with the traps, and u don’t stack them up, they can be dodge. another reason to place fire field before spike trap xD
another reason why i don’t use Rampage as one, i use spirit, bc Thief Guild is OP in 1v1, but self rez is even more op xD. no need for stability when lightning reflexes avoids stuns/damage that follows
i can mitigate roots as a ranger by just spamming the dodge abilities on the swords xD
and that is why I run shortbow with high crits/bleeds and ravens, bc theifs think that cluster is more powerful than a raven with 11k crit damage. xD i love that part.
You do know I can kill the Raven in less than 2 seconds, right? He might hit me once, while I teleport to avoid his damage, while running Omnom Pie to counter the damage you do from the Life Steals.
Running Sigil of Purity on my sword, and shortbow, with Sigil of Generosity on my dagger, I don’t ever notice conditions. Your traps are utterly worthless.
Was getting tired of WvW but if they nerf AoE it will put a coffin in the game for me.
As someone else said
Single target should be > AoE
however
AoE should not have a 5 cap limit. There shouldn’t be a limit on aoe at all. If you can’t move out of aoes that’s your own fault. If your group of 30 gets run over by 5 people using AoE then too bad. Should have payed more attention / played better. Hand-holding zergs will only make the game worse.
Seems like this game is going to end up like all the others. Giving in to making the game easier so more “casuals” can have their fun, when it ends up just ruining the game and dumbing it down even more.
I agree with you to a point. There does need to be a cap on number of players hit, but it needs to be something like 15-20 players hit by AEs.
If they do more than that, we’ll be back to having Bright Wizards, who when protected could kill massive zergs by themselves. It was utterly stupid how effective Bright Wizards were, and I played one, who was guarded 100% of the time by a Knight. <grins evily>
You can already use one Guardian to deny access to a ramp, backed by 4 AE classes, as long as two are Elementalists, and destroy massive zergs because those trying to attack “up the ramp” have limited sight, and will see their attacks obstructed, while those above the ramps, can rain down death.
Stability is the answer for any Guardian denial. You really can’t blame AoE for horrible zerg tactics.
Because Stability is never on cooldown, and they knew when going up the ramp to save it, amirite?
I mean seriously, you’re only hurting your argument.
This is why we run with a Necromancer AND a Mesmer, to strip boons.
…what…
Exarthious, you’re full of it. Please do provide proof of you killing ~55 players with your 1 group.
…what…
Exarthious, you’re full of it. Please do provide proof of you killing ~55 players with your 1 group.
Ya, I gotta kinda call BS on this one, too. I can see 1:3 odds, so if you had a group of like 15-20, you could take down a ball that big, if you and your team are so dang good or have mad siege up.
We don’t make videos, but we do fight against these guys once in awhile.
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/pvp/wuvwuv/Video-7vs50
AoEs in this game are stronger than single target damage, against a single target. That is absurd brother.
But if I have to, I’ll talk the gang into making videos, so you can see the full potential of AEs in this game.
That video is nothing like 7v50, much like his earlier video was nothing like 4v30. He’s a good player, but you’re still full of it.
And please, do “talk your gang” into that – until you do, stop spreading blatant misinformation.
How many were they fighting? There was at least 35 there, most likely 45. Even if it wasn’t 50, it still proves my point, and shows you the reason AEs need to be toned down.
Just becuase you’re not as good as groups like this, or mine doesn’t mean the issue doesn’t exist.
It doesn’t show anything, but good players with superior tactics beating terrible players with no battle plan whatsoever. His aoe was hitting for what 1.5-3k? I hit people for 2-4k with autoattack.
All reducing the aoe damage is going to do is promote zerg style play instead of tactical/strategic thinking.
Only way I would be for reduced aoe dmg is if they increased the number people affected within a radius of multiple aoe’s to make up for lost damage.
Your greatsword is also a AE attack, and it would be nice if Warriors were the only other class in the game, for which they are not.
This is probably the tenth time I’ve said it, but will say it again. No AE damage should ever hit a single target for more damage than a single target ability, ever, which includes ALL classes. Because there is a need to change AEs, they also need to increase the number of players hit by AEs to 15, or 20.
Was getting tired of WvW but if they nerf AoE it will put a coffin in the game for me.
As someone else said
Single target should be > AoE
however
AoE should not have a 5 cap limit. There shouldn’t be a limit on aoe at all. If you can’t move out of aoes that’s your own fault. If your group of 30 gets run over by 5 people using AoE then too bad. Should have payed more attention / played better. Hand-holding zergs will only make the game worse.
Seems like this game is going to end up like all the others. Giving in to making the game easier so more “casuals” can have their fun, when it ends up just ruining the game and dumbing it down even more.
I agree with you to a point. There does need to be a cap on number of players hit, but it needs to be something like 15-20 players hit by AEs.
If they do more than that, we’ll be back to having Bright Wizards, who when protected could kill massive zergs by themselves. It was utterly stupid how effective Bright Wizards were, and I played one, who was guarded 100% of the time by a Knight. <grins evily>
You can already use one Guardian to deny access to a ramp, backed by 4 AE classes, as long as two are Elementalists, and destroy massive zergs because those trying to attack “up the ramp” have limited sight, and will see their attacks obstructed, while those above the ramps, can rain down death.
^^^^^
I would kill that guy 100 out of 100 times.
Traps are useless against us Thieves because we will just Cluster Bomb you if you plan on sitting inside it. If you move back, we will dodge through the trap, causing it to do zero to us. Your pet gives us the best possible target for CnD because he can not dodge it.
Rampage as one is nice, against other professions, but as a Thief, I am not trying to CC you, and I know bad thieves run Basilisk Venom, but good Thieves do not. Thieves guild is a MUCH better elite to be running.
Also something to know, Entangling Roots is worthless because Infiltrators Arrow, Shadow Step, and Infiltrators Strike allows us to teleport out of it with ease.
If you ever face a Sword/Dagger Thief who also uses Shortbow, you’ve faced a good Thief, and you will never win that fight.
(edited by Exarthious.5792)
Could you explain what you mean by “defense is so useless in this game” , please?
3200 Armor isn’t much better than 2500 Armor. As a Thief, I tested this with a Guardian buddy of mine who changed servers to test it. With 2500 Armor, I killed him in 2.5 seconds, with 3200 Armor, I killed him in less than 3 seconds multiple times, so he went 100% into toughness, with toughness food, and such, putting his Armor to (if I remember correctly) to 3400, maybe 3500 Armor, and I killed him in just over 3 seconds.
Here is the kicker. I havn’t taken the time to upgrade my level 78 Exotic Beserker gear either.
The diminishing returns on Toughness, as it relates to Armor is drastic, not like the massive benefits we get from Power, and Precision, not to mention the extremely large pool of itemization you get from having a high critical hits, from food, and sigils.
You should take into consideration that Guards are one of the classes with the lowest scaling HP pool. You need BOTH vit AND tough to properly mitigate; especially on a guardian. Do this same test with a warrior.
I will have to get back to you on this. Though I would assume under the same conditions I’d kill in 5 seconds, which isn’t a lot honestly. Maxed out vitality/toughness Warrior will have what, 28k hit points by the end of a WvW week?
Could you explain what you mean by “defense is so useless in this game” , please?
3200 Armor isn’t much better than 2500 Armor. As a Thief, I tested this with a Guardian buddy of mine who changed servers to test it. With 2500 Armor, I killed him in 2.5 seconds, with 3200 Armor, I killed him in less than 3 seconds multiple times, so he went 100% into toughness, with toughness food, and such, putting his Armor to (if I remember correctly) to 3400, maybe 3500 Armor, and I killed him in just over 3 seconds.
Here is the kicker. I havn’t taken the time to upgrade my level 78 Exotic Beserker gear either.
The diminishing returns on Toughness, as it relates to Armor is drastic, not like the massive benefits we get from Power, and Precision, not to mention the extremely large pool of itemization you get from having a high critical hits, from food, and sigils.
I don’t disagree, I was curious which route you were going to take the statement though. DR’s , buggy mechanics or over indulgence in damaging stats.
I think it is a combination of all that you mentioned. The massive amount of “gain this on critical hits” items we have access to, with the lack of defensive items to counter them pretty much puts the ball in the hands of DPS builds, considering the diminishing returns for Power are minor in comparison to the diminishing returns for Toughness.
The issue is then compounded by the fact that groups can attain high stacks of Might, with sigils that give them additional Power through stacks, without a counter in defense for the extra damage.
…what…
Exarthious, you’re full of it. Please do provide proof of you killing ~55 players with your 1 group.
…what…
Exarthious, you’re full of it. Please do provide proof of you killing ~55 players with your 1 group.
Ya, I gotta kinda call BS on this one, too. I can see 1:3 odds, so if you had a group of like 15-20, you could take down a ball that big, if you and your team are so dang good or have mad siege up.
We don’t make videos, but we do fight against these guys once in awhile.
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/pvp/wuvwuv/Video-7vs50
AoEs in this game are stronger than single target damage, against a single target. That is absurd brother.
But if I have to, I’ll talk the gang into making videos, so you can see the full potential of AEs in this game.
Those people died to AOEs because they were being idiots, not because AOE is too strong.
Oh noes, you might not be able to blindly throw AEs and win, and might have to actually think, and put up a fight?
The horror. hah……..
When our AE group runs around it is like shooting fish in a barrel. There is no logical sense that any AE ability should ever do more damage to a single target, than a single target ability does.
AOE’s should have moderate damage compared to a single target skill so the upcoming update is correct but,
AOE’s shouldn’t be limited to 5,
That’s what i think.
Agreed.
There is no reason any AoE ability should do more to a single target, than a single target ability. You shouldn’t even argue that, ever.
What you should be trying to get them to do, is make it so that our AEs hit MORE targets, say 15, instead of 5.
But like all MMOs, the majority who play the classes who’re getting changed will fight tooth, and nail against the change, without offering up better alternatives, that are more reasonable.
My AoE’s do mediocore damage to max 5 targets, my single target abilities do sucky damage 1. The fix isn’t to give my AoEs sucky damage, but to give my single target abilities good damage.
The problem though is defense is so useless in this game, they just can’t up the damage to single target abilities, without really messing stuff up. So in my honest opinion, as someone who plays AE classes, among them the Elementalist, the AE Confusion Mesmer, and the Shortbow Thief, they need to lesson the damage our AEs do, and increase the number of targets hit.
I know I used the number 15, but the more I think about it, the more I believe the number of targets hit (depending on how much damage they remove) should be 20.
If they want to take the focus off AE damage in WvW and allow for melee trains/single target then they need to correct single target damage. Nerfing AoE’s in general isn’t the correct path to this “balance”. Some builds do need their AoE toned down, but again the path to “balance” for a melee train is to make that train worth while. Which would be a buff overall to survivable train builds and more pronounced a buff to CC in general.
This is an overreaction. They would have to cut AE damage by 75% to make it useless, and allow for these make believe melee trains you speak of, and I’m pretty sure that isn’t going to happen.
I’m not sure exactly what your arguing, so I’m just going to wait patiently for you to explain.
I’m arguing the change is needed, and people should not overreact to the change.
Could you explain what you mean by “defense is so useless in this game” , please?
3200 Armor isn’t much better than 2500 Armor. As a Thief, I tested this with a Guardian buddy of mine who changed servers to test it. With 2500 Armor, I killed him in 2.5 seconds, with 3200 Armor, I killed him in less than 3 seconds multiple times, so he went 100% into toughness, with toughness food, and such, putting his Armor to (if I remember correctly) to 3400, maybe 3500 Armor, and I killed him in just over 3 seconds.
Here is the kicker. I havn’t taken the time to upgrade my level 78 Exotic Beserker gear either.
The diminishing returns on Toughness, as it relates to Armor is drastic, not like the massive benefits we get from Power, and Precision, not to mention the extremely large pool of itemization you get from having a high critical hits, from food, and sigils.
There is no reason any AoE ability should do more to a single target, than a single target ability. You shouldn’t even argue that, ever.
What you should be trying to get them to do, is make it so that our AEs hit MORE targets, say 15, instead of 5.
But like all MMOs, the majority who play the classes who’re getting changed will fight tooth, and nail against the change, without offering up better alternatives, that are more reasonable.
My AoE’s do mediocore damage to max 5 targets, my single target abilities do sucky damage 1. The fix isn’t to give my AoEs sucky damage, but to give my single target abilities good damage.
The problem though is defense is so useless in this game, they just can’t up the damage to single target abilities, without really messing stuff up. So in my honest opinion, as someone who plays AE classes, among them the Elementalist, the AE Confusion Mesmer, and the Shortbow Thief, they need to lesson the damage our AEs do, and increase the number of targets hit.
I know I used the number 15, but the more I think about it, the more I believe the number of targets hit (depending on how much damage they remove) should be 20.
If they want to take the focus off AE damage in WvW and allow for melee trains/single target then they need to correct single target damage. Nerfing AoE’s in general isn’t the correct path to this “balance”. Some builds do need their AoE toned down, but again the path to “balance” for a melee train is to make that train worth while. Which would be a buff overall to survivable train builds and more pronounced a buff to CC in general.
This is an overreaction. They would have to cut AE damage by 75% to make it useless, and allow for these make believe melee trains you speak of, and I’m pretty sure that isn’t going to happen.
(edited by Exarthious.5792)
…. really annoying fight this thiefs… they just keep invisible all the time… how you guys kill them?
Traps, and more traps. With my thief in pvp against a trap ranger I find it much harder to accomplish anything with it. Sure I can shadowstep to them but unless I got some way to remove that cripple they can easily outrun me. Not to mention if they spec in cond dmg, I’m running at them slowly getting eaten away and walking into my own death. That or just barrage on yourself or the area they plant shadow refuge and laugh as they/we stumble away.
Sigil of Purity + Sigil of Generosity
Bowl of Orrian Truffle and Meat Stew + Feline Grace
Conditons won’t ever be an issue for you, and you’ll be able to dodge often enough that they can barely even hit you, with very little chance to ever kill you.
From one Thief to another, you are welcome.
There is no reason any AoE ability should do more to a single target, than a single target ability. You shouldn’t even argue that, ever.
What you should be trying to get them to do, is make it so that our AEs hit MORE targets, say 15, instead of 5.
But like all MMOs, the majority who play the classes who’re getting changed will fight tooth, and nail against the change, without offering up better alternatives, that are more reasonable.
…what…
Exarthious, you’re full of it. Please do provide proof of you killing ~55 players with your 1 group.
…what…
Exarthious, you’re full of it. Please do provide proof of you killing ~55 players with your 1 group.
Ya, I gotta kinda call BS on this one, too. I can see 1:3 odds, so if you had a group of like 15-20, you could take down a ball that big, if you and your team are so dang good or have mad siege up.
We don’t make videos, but we do fight against these guys once in awhile.
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/pvp/wuvwuv/Video-7vs50
AoEs in this game are stronger than single target damage, against a single target. That is absurd brother.
But if I have to, I’ll talk the gang into making videos, so you can see the full potential of AEs in this game.
That video is nothing like 7v50, much like his earlier video was nothing like 4v30. He’s a good player, but you’re still full of it.
And please, do “talk your gang” into that – until you do, stop spreading blatant misinformation.
How many were they fighting? There was at least 35 there, most likely 45. Even if it wasn’t 50, it still proves my point, and shows you the reason AEs need to be toned down.
Just becuase you’re not as good as groups like this, or mine doesn’t mean the issue doesn’t exist.
…what…
Exarthious, you’re full of it. Please do provide proof of you killing ~55 players with your 1 group.
…what…
Exarthious, you’re full of it. Please do provide proof of you killing ~55 players with your 1 group.
Ya, I gotta kinda call BS on this one, too. I can see 1:3 odds, so if you had a group of like 15-20, you could take down a ball that big, if you and your team are so dang good or have mad siege up.
We don’t make videos, but we do fight against these guys once in awhile.
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/pvp/wuvwuv/Video-7vs50
AoEs in this game are stronger than single target damage, against a single target. That is absurd brother.
But if I have to, I’ll talk the gang into making videos, so you can see the full potential of AEs in this game.
On the face of it this proposed change is just utterly ridiculous especially for specs like staff eles that are nothing but aoe. Like the poster above me stated the effect on WvW will just be greater zerging, as it is the restriction of damage to only 5 people leads to more zerging this will just make it worst.
Anet if this is a change for sPVP please do it for sPVP only and I’d want to see iron clad justifications for making the change in PvE and WvW.
This isn’t true, and you know it. When my group kills 35-55 players, because we’re made up primarily of Area Effect builds, all wrapped up in a single group of five, there is an issue. We usually run Elementalist, Elementalist, Necromancer, Confusion Mesmer, and me Thief (my primary roll is to finish people off, and make sure they’re not rezzed), while adding Cluster Bomb damage. We slaughter countless groups much larger than us, thanks to the AE damage we can put out.
I will give you one thing though, if they lower the damage, they need to increase the number of targets hit.
How is that an issue? Why shouldn’t a smaller group have the tools to kill a larger group if they outplay them?
It has nothing to do with us outplaying them, but more to do with most Zergs being made up with upleveled players, or 80s who havn’t got into Exotic gear yet, and/or havn’t figured their builds out yet. You can tell a difference in the damage you do.
Once people are fully geared, and have thier builds figured out, they begin venturing out solo, and in smaller groups, even taking towers in a single group.
I don’t, or I should say my group does not need to be able to prey on so many, and I would rather they be given a handicap, so I can face a greater oppostion, until we steamroll smaller groups we find.
Shooting fish in a barrel is boring to me. I’d rather have to stick my hand in a bucket of pirahnas, and grab one.
On the face of it this proposed change is just utterly ridiculous especially for specs like staff eles that are nothing but aoe. Like the poster above me stated the effect on WvW will just be greater zerging, as it is the restriction of damage to only 5 people leads to more zerging this will just make it worst.
Anet if this is a change for sPVP please do it for sPVP only and I’d want to see iron clad justifications for making the change in PvE and WvW.
This isn’t true, and you know it. When my group kills 35-55 players, because we’re made up primarily of Area Effect builds, all wrapped up in a single group of five, there is an issue. We usually run Elementalist, Elementalist, Necromancer, Confusion AE Mesmer, and me Thief (my primary roll is to finish people off, and make sure they’re not rezzed), while adding Cluster Bomb damage. We slaughter countless groups much larger than us, thanks to the AE damage we can put out.
I will give you one thing though, if they lower the damage, they need to increase the number of targets hit.
Keep in mind most AE abilities do far, far more damage to a single target, than most single target abilities.
(edited by Exarthious.5792)
People actually have issues killing others in WvW? O.O
I have never had any issues in any situation, be it 1v2, 1v3, Group vs Group, Zerg vs Zerg.
But then again, I’m a Thief, so maybe other professions havn’t found out how to effectively kill the other players yet? I’ll give some friendly advice, instead of wasting itme to stomp someone, just burn them down. While in the downed state, they take more damage than they would if they were up, and if anyone is trying to rez them, they become free kills to you as well.
Happy hunting.
I’m sorry, but due to culling, stealth lasts a lot longer than 4 seconds, and tab targeting doesn’t work.
Tabbing works, with one exception. You can’t be in a zerg. Then again if you aren’t in a zerg, culling doesn’t exist.
(Before you try to argue this, look up the definition of culling in relation to video games. You will see that “culling” is merely the result of a “cap” put on how many sprites can be displayed on screen at any point in time. If you are not trying to render more than that “cap” nothing is culled.)So, if someone is experiencing culling in relation to thieves, they are in a large group, ie. not alone. This means that no solo thief is a threat to them unless they, and all their allies much weaker players than the thief. In this case it’s quite purely a l2p issue.
With all due respect friend, culling will happen in small scale fights if there are more people on the map. As a Thief myself, I’ve tested this with other thieves, and there is in fact culling even in one on one situations.
Anet messed something up majorly in their coding, so quit busting peoples chops.
Here is something to add to the fire.
The Chill condition that lengthens the cooldown on those 30sec/40sec recast abilities the other classes have, does not effect us Thieves thanks to the way initiative works. We’re given for free, and immunity to the second half of Chill.
With love, from a local Thief near you.
Issue one:
Are you looking at making the Norn shapchanging a bit more “fluid”, as in once you shift, you’re not rooted in place for a split second, and fix the issue with attacks being very rigid, also rooting you in place?
Issue two:
Will you be reducing the cooldown on the animal forms? If not, will you be allowing for racial changes? I would love to have the 30 second cooldown Pain Inverter from Asura, that does 5,000 – 6,000 damage (if you opponent doesn’t stop attacking for the 5 sec).
Issue three:
Pet classes lose their pets once they shift, this includes Rangers, and Necromancers. Their pets should remain on the field in my opinion, but that really isn’t a judgement call I can make. <grins>
Thanks for your time.
(edited by Exarthious.5792)
A lot of bad advice here from people on how to deal with thieves. As a Thief there is no possible way a Ranger could kill me, ever. I still havn’t upgraded from my level 78 Exotic Beserker gear because there is no need to.
Quite honestly I’ve played a lot of overpowered classes in many MMOs, the Ranger in EQ2 during its worst, the Saboteur in Rift during its worse, among many, many others.
There has never been a class as powerful as the GW2 Thief that I’ve played, ever. It surprises me they allowed this to go through BETA honestly, but alas they have. My deepest concerns though is I can not get my brother to quit the Ranger, and like you guys, and him, you should.
They can’t fix the class for WvW, unless they do some major changes, and if Anet is anything like other companies, those changes could take years. Look at how long it took Sony to fix the Conjuror in EQ2, probably one of the worst PvP classes of all PvP games created.
Honestly the only way I bet they fix the Ranger is if everyone who has one just stops playing it, and plays something else, or doesn’t play for a month or two at all.
I just hope my brother decides to dump the Ranger, because the lack of feedback from developers on this broken, and worthless class is both daunting, and comical. We’ve had more developer participation on the Thief forum, asking us what they can do to make our stuff better. <amazed>
(edited by Exarthious.5792)
Was hoping to see more answers in this thread.
Roam solo, it is MUCH better than dueling. In duels most people won’t duel until all timers are up, but when you roam, chances are you’ll be caught with something on a timer, most importantly, your elite.
a minute at most? besides usually when one finishes dueling, another pair is ready to fight so you wait your cool-downs while you watch your friends go at it.
Must be nice not to have elites that are not on 240 second cooldowns. When I roam solo, I get in new fights every 20 seconds, most of them overwhelming, or be fighting one person, only to have more, and more filter in, and before you know it you’ve got a 8 on 6, or even better a three way where either side has fewer than 10 players.
You mention PvE, as you should since EQ has always been known predominately as a PvE game….. PvE is what the term “carebear” refers to. It denotes the “let’s all get along” attitude of the cartoon characters. No one is saying EQ1 didn’t have the most epic PvE content ever; but aside form the small populace in that game that actually played on the PvP servers, PvE is what it was about. DAoC on the other hand was about the PvP, even the PvE was simply a means to improve your PvP game.
Either way, this discussion is in the WVW forum therefore based on DAoC’s RvR as stated by devs pre-realease even. They wanted to capture the spirit of RvR but have missed the mark in a few places which is what these players are pointing out to them.
For the record, I have nothing against EQ1….. despised EQ2, though (another cna of worms there), it was a great game, but it’s main focus never was the PvP.
Being a PvE game is besides the point because EQ1 had the best PvP rules on two of its servers, Rallos Zek, and Sullon Zek, which had far better PvP than any game since. And it was real hardcore PvP, not the carebear stuff that has come since, which began with DAoC. It kills me that a PvE game got PvP right, but a PvP game can’t get it right.
I’m just an old PvP gamer who misses the good old days, of real hardcore, not this made up, fake belief system that running in a group in DAoC, or any other game since is hardcore, when it isn’t.
If they don’t add a major penalty for death, the reward system for this game, exactly like DAoC is nothing but a grind fest that rewards time played, above everything else.
Roam solo, it is MUCH better than dueling. In duels most people won’t duel until all timers are up, but when you roam, chances are you’ll be caught with something on a timer, most importantly, your elite.
I love the Ranger in WvW. It’s the “collect your badges” class for me. They’re even easier to kill than Necromancers.
EQ was the most carebear thing ever unless you rolled specifically on a PvP server, in which case you’re pretty much on the same turf as a PvP server was in DAoC……
lol……
Rallos Zek you could loot peoples coin, killing them ANYWHERE in the world, nothing was safe, and loot one piece of gear off their bodies.
DAoC gave you safe zones to PvE in, so you wouldn’t be ganked, and gave you objectives so you could zerg them.
Pretty much? You’ve got to be joking, right?
You’ve never experienced hardcore PvP until you’ve been perma blinded, perma rooted, perma snared, perma feared, and so on, or be on a raid boss, which were insanely hard to kill with smaller groups in EQ1, only to have another group come in, wipe you, and loot years worth of good gear.
<laughs> Pretty much the same?
You could LOSE LEVELS in EQ1 if someone, or a group of people killed you enough.
Heck, PvE was also MUCH harder brother. Anyone who remembers doing corpse runs long before they could be summoned knows this.
(edited by Exarthious.5792)
Dark Age of Camelot was the beginning of carebear systems for PvP, and was the first to bring us zergs, and players who were afraid to leave PvE without a solid group.
No, hardcore gaming was Everquest I, (Rallos Zek), and earlier. On Everquest you could be ganked visiting the bank, and lose all your coin, or when you killed someone you got the chance to loot an item off them. With all open world zones, including raid zones, and people fighting for those spots, it could take you up to a year to get a good piece of gear, only to lose it within a day.
Please quit equating real, hardcore PvP with games like Dark Age of Camelot.
I’m fine with you wanting a rank system you can grind out every day, and feel special, but don’t insult the real PvP games that came first by calling anything you do in the newer games, hardcore.
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