Guild Wars 2

Just a reminder that Stronger Bowstrings (increased longbow range) is still bugged and reduces the damage of the #1 attack.

There are a variety of longbow builds, but you usually want to go with either 30 in Arms or 30 in Discipline to increase your adrenaline throughput (extra adrenaline on crit or reduced burst ability cost). You want to be spamming your burst ability (F1 ability) as much as possible in WvW battles. And always at least 15 in Discipline for Fast Hands. Additionally, it works best with high power and precision.

For weapon swap, sword and axe mainhand are both popular, as they give you burst. Sword gives you more mobility whereas axe is more damage for finishing off someone. Off-hand can be warhorn (you should trait 20 in Tactics for Quick Breathing if you use it) or shield. You can also play around with off-hand sword since Riposte no longer ends if it blocks a ranged attack.

These problems are mostly from perception and an underdeveloped meta-game. The conquest system is fine as it is.

Gameplay
The simplest strategy is to take your close point and then toss everyone at the center point and hold it. Going after the far point is perfectly valid, but it takes some strategy and coordination. If teams don’t go for the far point, is that really a fault of the game itself? I can only fault the game for one reason: some maps spread out the side nodes too far apart from each other. That makes it unreasonable to be able to defend both. The strategy in that case would be to take the far node temporarily and then trade it back for the middle (or feint that move). But that’s a lot to expect from PUGs and casual teams.

As long as players and teams go for the next closest point, you’ll see “stale” games between evenly match teams and snowball matches when one team is weaker and can’t win the mid fight.

Bunker vs. Not Bunker
Before the June 25th patch, full bunker builds were already losing popularity. Having an outside bunker hurts you in a team fight versus a team that doesn’t. A bunker not on a point you control is also lost value. The main reason bunker is so popular is because it’s relatively easy to do compared to 5 mobile players. With a full mobile team, all players need to have a good knowledge of who to group up and what to hit and when. Again, that’s a lot to expect from PUGs and casual teams.

Another reason why you see a lot of bunker or burst is because there’s no way for most professions to gets stats for something in between with a power-based build. The Knight’s amulet is pretty bad so that means either no precision (soldier or valkyrie) or minimal defenses (berserker). The best way to address this is would be to split the stats on the amulet and its jewel into two rings, each with a jewel slot, in order to allow more stat customization.

There could be a few tweaks made to some remaining bunker builds to allow them to be pushed off points more easily. An example would be the guardian’s multiple sources of stability. If the point is neutral, keeping forces there isn’t hurting your team nearly as much.

So few people understand conditions and the problems in sPvP. Shortbow for ranger is fine. Traps for ranger are the issue, but compared to engi and necro, they’re not that bad. Engineer and Necromancer are a problem because they constantly re-apply a wide variety of damaging conditions to an area. Necromancer even more so because they can stack Fear on top it, requiring stun breaks in addition to condition removal. The area part is important in sPvP. They also can do this from range. It’s just one too many advantages.

The issue with conditions being weak because of condition removal is from professions that don’t cover you constantly in 5-6 conditions. For example, warrior has bleeds, but once you start stacking them, it’s easy to wipe it out and difficult for them to reapply a lot of stacks quickly. Other professions have key defensive or offensive conditions that don’t deal damage. You don’t want to buff condition removal across the board because it hurts everything but full condition spam builds.

I wouldn’t focus on the condition issue too much right now. Certain professions can apply them way too often in an area, which really hurts melee. Everyone, not just warriors are struggling with it.

Ranged damage (longbow) and heavy CC builds (hammer) seem to be doing relatively well right now in PvP. That tells me the issue is with the melee weapons that lack a lot of control. There’s no long-term survivability/sustainability when you engage in melee. If you don’t stop your enemy from doing damage, then you either need to be able to kill them quickly or live for a while against them. The sustain was supposed to be added in this patch, but I haven’t seen any of it.

I wouldn’t worry too much about it right now. Heavy condition damage builds, especially necromancer, are out of control. Necromancer, engineer, and trap ranger will all apply conditions much faster than you can remove them. And they do it to an entire area. That is mostly like the next thing to be nerfed.

Your choices are to go for a defensive spec with heavy condition removal and you might be able to last for a little bit, or just go heavy damage with light condi removal and burst them before they can stack it really high.

Just wasn’t sure if it changed in the big balance patch.

So the next question – is there any way to take advantage of that in a real PvP setting?

You used to be able to remove multiple conditions with it by moving in and out of the circle. I don’t know if that still works.

It’s not a bad trait, but it’s in a bad location. The builds that want condition damage are going to be using fast-hitting weapons like sword. And if that’s the case, they’re going to spec into radiance. If you’re deep into that tree, then you have a choice of no room for any support traits and get Kindled Zeal or not take it and get the support traits. Most would choose the latter.

I like the fact that Zealous Blade opens up alternatives to using 30 in Valor. It’s not as powerful as Monk’s Focus while solo or Altruistic Healing with a party, but you only spend 20 points for it (compared to 30) and pick up a considerable damage boost.

Agree on the multiple admins option.

I don’t really care much about rank progress. If you play sPvP a lot, you’ll get enough through tournaments and hot join.

Try /gameend

I’d also like to know how to add other people as admins (if that’s possible).

Veritas.6071:

– “Burst Mastery” has been changed to: Burst skills deal more damage and cost less.

^^^I don’t want to get too excited, but this could definitely be a change to set up getting rid of Brawn in favor of CD reduction for our class stat.

I was thinking that too. Have to wait until tomorrow…

The leaked notes were most likely from an internal build. Developers often try out some things during internal builds that don’t make the final cut either because they’re not useful or too powerful.

Also, without weapon and skill changes, it’s hard to get the full picture.

I actually agree with the direction that ANet is taking with warriors. However, it will require a second patch a month or two from now to polish things.

The main goal appears to be moving global damage bonuses deeper into trait lines so that every warrior can’t have them all. That move then allows for improvements to situational damage bonuses and improvements to utility, including increasing its availability. So warriors can no longer have a huge global damage boost and lots of utility.

Also, don’t judge it based on the first week. These changes will break most of the popular builds and it will take a few weeks for players to figure out what new builds work. And these changes won’t be perfect either. With changes this substantial, you can only get it in the ballpark with a couple months of internal testing. There will need to be another pass over the changes once players re-adjust.

I love how theory crafting forgets that dead people do no DPS. Keeping yourself and your group alive at the cost of some DPS is a good trade-off.

The rank token is based on your sPvP rank. Rank 1-9 is Rabbit, Rank 10-19 is Deer, etc. Both free and paid tournament tokens come from tournament reward chests.

The item token is purchased from the rank vendors and determines the type of item (sword, greatsword, light chest, etc).

Andenhelm.2681:

In PvE, if you consider GS to be the primary dps weapon… you haven’t tried sword/focus.

The big problem with sword in PvE is the third attack in the #1 chain. Instead of being a wide cone, it’s a tight longer-ranged cone. That really cuts into its damage in multi-mob fights.

Buff siege in an anti-personnel role, particularly in the open field. Change rules for rallying on an enemy kill to limit how many can rally.

WvW is the domain of zergs. You can’t stop a zerg except with your own zerg. On borderlands, the zerg can counter any keep attack no matter where it currently is. Making maps bigger isn’t an option due to technical limits. The same is true for an increase in the AoE cap for players. Smaller organized groups needs options to take on a larger group in the open field and win. The game needs tactics and not numbers.

Off. In addition to that, it allows you to attack closer and not suddenly find yourself outside of the 130 melee range because of delayed reaction or client-server delays.

I believe point ticks are based off when the point was fully capped, not on a universal timer. So assuming that I’d guess that the blue point tick was actually a few milliseconds ahead of the red point tick, giving them the win. However, in order to save bandwidth, the clients don’t get updates that fast. Let’s say the client gets a score update from the server every half second or so, and then the client updates the score that you see. Because of the reduced resolution for the client, it looks like the tick is at the exact same time.

GS is a balanced weapon that does everything decently, but nothing extremely well. Against players, it can be avoided easily if you try to use its burst and CC right off the bat. And being melee, it’s not that good for big WvW fights.

Staff is good for group support and can achieve okay damage. Use #1 for groups and a healthy dose of #2 against a single target to boost its damage. Very good for big WvW fights and group fights in general.

Agree with CptAurellian. AH is great if your build doesn’t have a focus on anything in particular. When you bring in more specialized builds, a lot of them don’t take AH and perform perfectly well. Zeal is currently the only guardian trait line that doesn’t see more than 10 points used in common builds. All the others commonly see 30 points invested.

Guardian downed state is pretty good. I could see a slight buff to #1 damage, but the rest of it works well and fits guardian.

@Jax/Silven:
You always show how you can do a lot of burst, but these builds have to be super squishy. What do you do if your burst fails or is on cooldown and how do you survive or escape?

“For Great Justice!” is 3 stacks of might each time for its full cooldown. 3 warriors makes that 9 stacks for the entire group. Then warriors have another 5 from popping their signet and can accumulate a few more from their own greatsword trait. So all the warriors in the group will have perma-fury and ~20 stacks of might for every trash pull and good chunks of boss fights, many of which have burst periods. The rest of the group has almost perma-fury and at least 9 stacks of might just from the warriors. Throw a couple banners in (since you really only need 2 for DPS) for trash or “On My Mark!” for bosses with burst windows. The fact that warriors bring so much damage gain to the group as well as themselves is partly why they’re so popular compared to other professions. Compare that to a full DPS guardian or Engi and the group benefit of them is far less even if their individual contribution may be slightly higher.

I would also note that the multi-warrior mentality is mostly from CoF path 1 and other easy dungeon paths where you can go all-out damage and not be in danger. In a more difficult dungeon, you would want a more balanced group. But that same aspect also limits DPS variants of other professions that are too much of a liability or bring little group support.

On top of that, you have the condition stacking issue that limits some professions. Warriors rely mostly on raw damage with some bleeds (stacks intensity) and vulnerability (stacks intensity). Even guardian burning does less than maximum DPS because it’s a duration stacking condition. Poison is similar and heavy condition builds can near the bleed cap on their own.

- Drop Two-Handed Mastery, replace it with Pure of Voice. Two-Handed Mastery isn’t that great except with Hammer. It may seem like it makes the weapons more powerful, but if you’re smart about when you use the abilities, the extra few seconds on utilities doesn’t do much.
- Drop Unscathed Contender and replace it with Vengeful or drop those 5 points and pick up Justice is Blind instead. Unless you’re standing at the back with staff for a long time, Aegis will be removed within a few seconds. And DPS’ing with a staff for an extend period of time is not your best option.
- Use “Stand Your Ground!” because it’s just that good.
- In WvW, “Save Yourselves!” will kill you in a large group. Be careful about when you use it.
- I would drop “Retreat!” and pick up a different utility. It doesn’t do a lot in PvE and in WvW, you have staff for swiftness and Leap of Faith for getting around quickly.

The Zeal line is pretty bad. No matter how hard people have tried, there’s no good build with 20 or 30 points in Zeal. The greatsword healing may seem good, but Altruistic Healing does just as much or more and doesn’t depend on a single weapon. The minor traits don’t come into play enough to make a significant impact, and you can offset the extra power with more offensive gear.

Obtena.7952:

That fact that I don’t need to be pigeon-holed to a ‘damage’ traitline to actually GET good damage on my Guardian is exactly what appeals to me and what makes this class so versatile.

That’s also what makes it almost overpowered.

In an ideal world, all trait lines give damage and utility/survivability to varying to degrees. Then, to supplement heavier investment in more damage-oriented traits, you offset with defensive stats on gear. And vice-versa. Sometimes the defensive or offensive part is just too good and needs toned down a little.

Changing rewards to favor smaller groups won’t stop zerging. It’s still the best way to do things because without numbers, you don’t win. Any increase in reward for less people is offset by the momentum of the zerg. If you want to stop zerging, you have to make it a less effective strategy or make it so that after a certain size, there is little benefit to more bodies.

The two main points to address about zergs are:
1. Inability for most smaller groups to stop it. Although a smaller group inside a fort can delay a large zerg, the zerg can change targets temporarily or simply starve out the defenders. In the open field, there are few ways for a smaller force to stop an opposing zerg.
2. It’s mobile enough to react to any keep attack. A giant ball can wipe a group in one location and then run across the entire borderlands map in order to wipe another group. This is especially true once waypoints are upgraded. If you can just do that, why split up?

Guanglai Kangyi.4318:

Have you ever actually used or fought an engineer? They are super overpowered.

Ya. You train them and they die in seconds like most glass cannons. I’d rather fight an engineer than a mesmer. Engineer has much less burst and their damage is heavily telegraphed. The only time I’d consider an engineer overpowered is when they can get on a high ledge.

Not every single way. Just most of the important ones. Warriors have been slowly improving with each patch, but the big roadblock for them is their ability to sustain themselves in a long fight. They just don’t have the HP regen.

ANet is working on addressing solo vs. team queues. It’s one of their higher priorities for sPvP changes.

Zeal will definitely see some attention in the patch. The end of June patch is addressing under-used traits and trait lines, and Zeal definitely fits that description. If guardians become too good at damage, then expect to see some of the +10% damage minor traits (Raidant Power, Elusive Power) nerfed and possibly Fiery Wrath as well. I think that’s an okay tradeoff for making the Zeal and Radiance trait lines more open.

As a slight change of direction, I would expect to see a lot of Vigor-granting traits nerfed in the future or a nerf to the boon itself. Probably not this patch, but at some point. Near 100% Vigor uptime for minimal investment is a little too good.

Sol.8341:

Buffs and Penalties are actually the same thing depending on which side you are on.

Mechanically, yes. Perceptually, no. People respond better to incentives than disincentives.

There are many issues with WvW and why the top servers have such a high population. Even if you limited the top WvW population servers through some kind of tax, guilds wouldn’t move because they want the fights provided by being a top server, whether it be wiping PUGs and smaller servers or lots of big guild fights.

The trait isn’t terrible. The trait line bonuses, mostly Brawn, not giving a decent return is the problem.

Any idea revolving around where you place (first, second, third) at the end of the week. The problem with WvW is that in many matchups, it’s decided who is first and second in the 24 hours. After that, few people have incentive to come out for the rest of the week. Even if there was a reward for first, the top server would only show up if threatened. And even then, a third place server will in most cases only play for second or not care.

You want a reward system that encourages players from the second and third place server to play throughout the week and to target the first place server. Maybe improving the world XP chest rewards and making the first place server’s players and forts worth extra world XP.

Guanglai Kangyi.4318:

Stop using AH. You will notice the best guardians don’t use the trait, or much of any investment in Valor at all.

This is only conditionally true.

Depending on what part of the game you’re playing and in what role, Altruistic Healing may or may not be a good trait choice. For heavy PvP/WvW team support guardians, they often go with Honor and Virtues for the full defensive stats and lots of team-support traits for condition removal. For an offensive build, you often see investment into Valor for the heal on meditations. For PvE, Altruistic Healing is a mainstay.

Altruistic Healing is very good for generalized play. If you’re not sure what you want to do, or you do a little of everything, then it works very well. When you move to more specialized roles, then that generalization is no longer as good.

As for thoughts on trait buffs, I’d like to see a conditional (such as on cripple/chill/immobilize) self-applied symbol of swiftness trait. I’d also like to see “Symbols are Larger” be the 5 point minor trait in Zeal.

If a skill evades, it will have evade in its tooltip.

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Evade

There’s some research on the wiki:
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/%22Hold_the_Line%22

Some of them make absolutely no sense.

What profession are you testing it with? Energy also has an internal cooldown.

And all proc-based sigils, whether it’s on critical or on weapon swap are mutually exclusive. It’s better that way. Otherwise, any profession that swaps weapons with two one-handed weapons (like a d/d ele) a lot would receive a much larger benefit than anyone else.

Playing around with a slight variant of the roaming pressure GS + mace/fc build:
http://intothemists.com/calc/?build=-7g-Bx;0NFF3093RG-90;9;6TJJ;404A29-28-L-V45;1PcW5PcW55kJ

In the current meta, I found that Pure of Voice without soldier runes just wasn’t cutting it. Absolute Resolution does a much better job against condi spam and has better passive healing too. That allowed me to drop the second shout and I replaced it with Purging Flames (faster-casting ground-target with traits) for group condition removal and a bit more burst damage and area denial. Also, if you go back and forth across the edge of Purging Flames it keeps removing conditions.

I like shield over focus for the knockback, though I do lose some damage. The off-hand is not integral to the setup though. Runeset and amulet I’m not 100% sure. Depending on how well I can use Purging Flames, it may allow me to change even more things.

Resilience was an absolutely terrible idea with the intended goal of countering stat inflation (which is negligible in GW2). It failed miserably at that goal. It didn’t do well in other MMOs that used the same idea. Don’t bring it here.

If you’re dying horribly to glass cannons, then most likely you’re also a glass cannon. Toughness does counter direct damage burst and crit damge is already low in sPvP because of available stat combos. The main issue with mesmers is that few people understand how they work, so they don’t know how to counter them. In WvW/PvE, they could tone down the crit damage stat on jewelry a little (it’s over-budget compared to other items).

Danicco.3568:

Exedore.6320:

Zealous Blade is not good. With the greatsword, Altruistic Healing can out-perform it. Greatsword #1 chain 3 applies one stack of might for every enemy you hit. That means AH is doing more healing than Zealous Blade on the auto-attack. Zealous Blade really only benefits from Whirling Wrath, but AH beats it hands-down for general use. Note: the target cap for all attacks in the #1 chain is 3. Other attacks cap at 5.

Not true, it takes 3 attacks from the Greatsword to proc 1 Might to grant 75~ healing.
The same 3 attacks, against a single opponent, trigger Zealous Blade 3 times which also equals to 75 healing.
Multiple enemies, multiple procs as well (up to 3).

Do the math again. You get might for each enemy hit with the third ability in the chain, so 3×75 at maximum. Zealous Blade does 3×25 maximum with each attack, and there are 3 attacks in the chain. It pretty much even in terms of the healing it does. Against 5 enemies, whirling wrath and Symbol of Wrath can heal you for quite a bit with Zealous Blade, but you’ll only see that in PvE.

Swiftpaw covered the PvE angle. High level fractals are the only difficult PvE right now. As you go up in levels, there are more and more mobs and agony resist is only effective at just barely preventing you from dying. In some places you don’t want to be in melee and are against bosses that do lots of area damage. AH scales with the number of allies, whereas Zealous Blade scales with enemies. It makes Zealous Blade decent on most trash, but awful on bosses, and you really want the additional healing on bosses. If you have to use a ranged weapon primarily, then you’ve lost all that sustain from Zealous Blade.

Exedore.6320:

Your PvP logic makes little sense. Even with the larger symbols trait, you still can’t cover an entire cap point. You’ll never get off the entire damage of the symbol unless your opponent is being CC’ed from an outside source.

Symbol’s increased area doesn’t need to cover the entire cap point. It covers an area huge enough to make the enemy either run from the cap point, giving you the advantage for capping, or forcing him to maneuver closer to it between the areas your Symbol is not but still inside the cap point, which is probably still within your melee range.

Guardians are monsters when it comes to damage/defense, and our supposed weaknesses, mobility and ranged, are compensated by forcing opponents stay in our melee range because of the cap point mechanic.

You don’t play tPvP much, do you?

You aren’t going to bunker a point well with a Zeal build, but let’s say you tried. You’re going to be up against ranged DPS that will stand off the point and whittle you down or use CC to knock you off just long enough to neutralize. Once neutral, they can leave the cap point during your symbol and return afterwards and you still won’t cap for a very long time.

Symbols are much better in an offensive role to force other bunkers off their points or take lots of damage, including mid fights. But if you’re full zeal, your only sustain mechanic requires you to hit your opponent often in melee. And in sPvP, everyone is going to avoid that as much as possible. I’d rather bring a necro or engi, since they can do the same things, but better.

I remember the 10 second base cooldown, 8 traited.
And really, it was totally overpowered. With Zealous Blade and Writ of the Merciful, I had 5 seconds of awesome healing every 8 seconds plus awesome AoE damage and Retaliation.

They nerfed it only because of the retaliation up-time, not because of the healing. They’ve nerfed retalation afterwards in other ways, so it would be nice if they lowered the cooldown a bit.

Also, isn’t it funny that the best two traits for a symbol build, larger symbols and symbols heal allies, are not in the Zeal line, which has a heavy focus on symbols?

The developers stated that in the patch at the end of June, every trait line of every profession will see at least one change, with some seeing as many kitten at current count.

I wouldn’t expect to see a slew of guardian changes in the next few months. Guardians are pretty good compared to most other professions in terms of useable weapons, traits and trait lines, and utility skills. All the weapons are seeing use – even torch, all the shouts are good, most of the consecrations and meditations are good. Virtues and Zeal trait lines need improvements, but at least 30 points in Virtues sees play in PvP.

Zeal still is terrible past 10 points. Guardians just have so many other options which took a little longer to surface, that it doesn’t bug us as much as it used to. Zeal at first glance seems like the greatsword DPS tree and players that wanted to go that route were frustrated. But once people found that they could get just as much from other trees along with survivability, it wasn’t as big of a problem.

5% greatsword damage is not good. It’s not bad, but the +% weapon damage traits are ignored for practically every profession unless the other choices are worse. And if you’re comparing against other professions, such a limited trait is usually +10%.

Zealous Blade is not good. With the greatsword, Altruistic Healing can out-perform it. Greatsword #1 chain 3 applies one stack of might for every enemy you hit. That means AH is doing more healing than Zealous Blade on the auto-attack. Zealous Blade really only benefits from Whirling Wrath, but AH beats it hands-down for general use. Note: the target cap for all attacks in the #1 chain is 3. Other attacks cap at 5.

Your PvP logic makes little sense. Even with the larger symbols trait, you still can’t cover an entire cap point. You’ll never get off the entire damage of the symbol unless your opponent is being CC’ed from an outside source.

Spirit weapons need improvements. They’re far too restricted by poor AI and being kill-able to justify traiting for them. When they were invulnerable, spirit hammer saw some use in PvP, but the knockback completely defeated Zeal’s focus on close-in sustained damage. Now they just die to AoE damage.

Yes, you always want some form of survivability. Downed and dead people both detract from DPS.

I forgot to mention that Symbol of Wrath was on a much shorter cooldown when the Zeal traits were designed. That further hurts the trait line that was designed heavily around the greatsword and symbols.

Beat your head against the Zeal trait line as much as you want. But it currently has no potential beyond niche builds. The reason AH builds are so prevalent is because they work with everything.

You see GS so much because:
- It’s really good in PvE, so casual PvPers continue to use it.
- The GS burst combo is easy to learn and execute against bad opponents (and there are lots in hot join).
- GS has a balance of mobility, burst, CC, and even some survivability with the evade on whirlwind.
- There aren’t good control or bunker options for warriors, or at least not one that’s been discovered. Hammer is great for control, but gets shut down by stability and blinds or blocks. With guardians being so common, there’s a lot of stability. Warrior healing is currently insufficient in comparison to their health pool, which is particularly evident if you try for a bunker build. You eventually lose the sustained battle.
- Warriors bring nothing unique to to the current tPvP meta when compared with other professions, so there isn’t much incentive to experiment. Thieves pick off people better, guardians have much better utility, etc. Necromancers (the second worst tPvP profession) at least see some play because they can overwhelm the popular bunker professions when they aren’t being trained.

Another issue is that there’s little incentive for the 2nd place server to fight the first place server over the third place server. And there’s little incentive for third place to fight first place. If there was an incentive for both to go after the first place team, it would help even up the scores within tiers.

From the responses, it seems that few people want to engage the team aspect, just like in WvW. Just attack, attack, attack and gloat while you’re back-capped. No one wants to defend.

- Zeal’s minor traits only take effect if your targets stand still.
- Zeal’s minor traits only work with 4 of the weapons.
- Zeal’s master and grandmaster trait selections offer very little in the way of increased damage.
- You always need some survivability, and Valor and Honor traits are great for that. You can make up the extra power with gear.

Battletorn.4102:

Sorry, I forgot to put something about waypoints in there. They absolutely need to change. Originally, waypointing into a keep was considered a bug/exploit and now it is a sloppy feature. It definitely needs a second look by devs.

They’ll fix it, but first they have to figure out how to prevent a lone player(s) that smacks the gate from contesting it. There are many variables to consider. Also, the 30sec window before swords pop up needs to be factored in.

ANet is on the right track. People that promote GW1 GvG are basking in nostalgia. Just watch any GW1 GvG video to see what it was really like.

Don’t expect GW2 to magically turn into a popular eSport overnight. If it’s a good game and it’s enjoyable to watch, it will grow over time. For the players, there needs to be a reason to compete and it needs to be balanced and diverse. Balance and diversity will come as ANet fixes bad traits and tweaks good ones. Getting people to play isn’t as cut-and-dry.

For the viewers, there needs to be a way to tell who’s ahead with the possibility of that changing throughout the course of the game. Conquest does an excellent job of that with the score system and point control. In addition, there needs to be insight each play. That’s currently a problem due to spell effects, characters jumping around, and camera usage.

WoW arena did poorly as an esport because it was hard to tell what was happening, nothing consequential happened until someone suddenly died and the match was effectively over, and there was terrible downtime between matches.