Guild Wars 2

STIHL.2489:

Feanor.2358:

STIHL.2489:

Feanor.2358:

STIHL.2489:

What can I say, I’m an honest guy, unlike the people that try to pass it off that they just want the challenge or whatever… really everyone in these discussions knew that its always been and only ever will be about the loot... nothing else maters.

Maybe now we can dispense with the facade that there is any other motive, and make the loot accessible so we can all stop talking about the raid.

If you’re after the loot, you should probably just chestfarm Silverwastes. It’s never only the loot.

So you would be fine if players could get Legendary Armor from doing a Chest Farm in Silverwastes, Didn’t think so… Its always only about the loot

Nice strawman. But still incorrect. The problem isn’t the loot, the problem is what you propose would kill raids.

If changing the loot would kill the raid, then it was always about the loot, it’s not about the fun, or the challenge, or any of the other snake oil reasons that get passed off, it all boils down to loot, That’s how they killed dungeons, by doing nothing but modifying the loot.

So can we all just admit to it now?

Nice strawman. And still incorrect. Obviously, if you remove the loot at all, pretty soon everyone will stop playing the content in question. Not because everyone only cares about the rewards. There are those who do, of course. They’ll leave immediately, which will make it harder for the remaining players to find teammates. Which will make some of them leave, making it even harder for those who don’t. Until you end up with something like dungeons, where you can find the occasional group but it’s mostly dead.

Rewards serve to sustain the playerbase. They aren’t the be-all and end-all. And in general, don’t assume everyone has the same tastes and the same drives as you do. People are different and players are people.

vesica tempestas.1563:

Totally agree with this ^^. making a change to ‘balance’ a class that only positively impacts a tiny part of the game, and negatively affects everywhere else is not smart. For me Mmorpg’s are at their best where there is a enough slack in the game that everyone is free to experiment with builds they enjoy. Ironically if you look at modern card games like Elder Scrolls Legends you get to see that freedom in action; massive variance, players embracing and actively seeking out new ideas and combos – the direct appositive of the normalization and sligthly oppressive process raiding goes through (simplify roles, find a tactic, rote it to death, do it faster)

But there’s nothing to balance when you can slack. I mean, everything works in the open world. What’s to balance? Taking care if skill A works “better” than skill B? How do you even define “better” when both let you faceroll the content? Let alone how you measure it.

Back on the topic, I’ll disagree. Elementalist is a extremely fragile class when built for full damage. But that’s fine. It means there’s more to learn about playing the class, and it also makes playing one all the more satisfying when you learn it. Knowing that pretty much everything can down you and dancing around that line – that’s what the glass cannon ele is about. And that’s why I rarely play any other class.

zoomborg.9462:

Admitting that u just want free loot without effort was u throwing your own credibility out of the window.

But it’s amusing to see it, isn’t it? The attempt to bring the opposite side down on the same level, too, while we’re on it.

STIHL.2489:

Feanor.2358:

STIHL.2489:

What can I say, I’m an honest guy, unlike the people that try to pass it off that they just want the challenge or whatever… really everyone in these discussions knew that its always been and only ever will be about the loot... nothing else maters.

Maybe now we can dispense with the facade that there is any other motive, and make the loot accessible so we can all stop talking about the raid.

If you’re after the loot, you should probably just chestfarm Silverwastes. It’s never only the loot.

So you would be fine if players could get Legendary Armor from doing a Chest Farm in Silverwastes, Didn’t think so… Its always only about the loot

Nice strawman. But still incorrect. The problem isn’t the loot, the problem is what you propose would kill raids. Tell you what, tweak the numbers so you don’t kill the raids and I’m fine with legendary armor being obtainable through SW chest farm. Say, add the precursor armor pieces as a rare drop, like 2-3 times rarer than a precursor. You wanna farm SW for legendary armor? Be my guest. But I don’t think you’d like that, would you?

Yep, D/D is nice for open world. It will also work in dungeons and low-level fractals.

Astralporing.1957:

Feanor.2358:

It doesn’t surprise me in the slightest to see the self-righteous stance of “raids are inaccessible” reduced to simple greed. But it does amuse me to see it admitted. It’s always fun to see someone undermine his own position in a debate.

Notice, how the same applies to the raiders as well. In the end every discussion ends up being about the rewards, because it’s something both sides care the most.

It’s not exactly the same. Every specific game mode needs its own rewards to keep the players interested for longer time. Raids have the Envoy armors, FotM have Ad Infinitum, PvP has The Ascension and so forth. It is only normal for the raiders to be concerned about devaluing the raid rewards. If that was to happen, it would affect their motivation to play raids.

In effect, raiders prefer to deny non-raiders the raid rewards in order to keep the raiding experience. Non-raiders prefer to deny raiders the raiding experience in order to get the rewards.

It might seem pretty much the same, however I think the raiders’ stance is objectively more valid, since the raiding experience is why this content is in the game in the first place.

STIHL.2489:

What can I say, I’m an honest guy, unlike the people that try to pass it off that they just want the challenge or whatever… really everyone in these discussions knew that its always been and only ever will be about the loot... nothing else maters.

Maybe now we can dispense with the facade that there is any other motive, and make the loot accessible so we can all stop talking about the raid.

If you’re after the loot, you should probably just chestfarm Silverwastes. It’s never only the loot.

STIHL.2489:

Feanor.2358:

STIHL.2489:

Feanor.2358:

STIHL.2489:

PvP is very accessible to you, in fact you can even have your very own arena. Care to try again?

Same for raids. Everyone can create a raid squad, invite people and enter instance.

PvP gives you full rewards just for trying.. raids don’t.

Ah, so it’s not raids that are inaccessible, it’s their rewards. Thanks for proving yet again you’re only after the shinies.

Umm, .. you were actually confused on that?

Did you honestly really think anyone would care about raids if they could have gotten the same rewards from doing living story?

It doesn’t surprise me in the slightest to see the self-righteous stance of “raids are inaccessible” reduced to simple greed. But it does amuse me to see it admitted. It’s always fun to see someone undermine his own position in a debate.

mygamingid.5816:

You’re undervaluing crit chance, particularly with big Ferocity numbers. Without raid boons, Berserker’s comes up short compared to Assassin’s. It’s as simple as that. Fresh Air Staff doesn’t generate Fury unless you make a bad choice in your utilities.

Think of it this way, 35% of the time in Fire (26.4% in Air, unless you don’t trait x-2-x, in which case it’s still 35% in Air), the Berserker’s build gives up critical damage and does base damage only. It doesn’t proc crit-based traits during that time or generate any sort of benefit. That’s vulnerability and burns (which proc Burning Rage for 10% damage) dropped.

That same Assassin’s build only gives up critical damage 9% of the time in Fire and always crits in Air. More vulns, more burns, and a LOT more critical damage. That Precision also increases Ferocity for harder crits.

If you go full Assassin’s (the build linked above used a mix), you can get over a 96% crit chance with over 230% crit damage with no other boons in effect. Trait 3-1-2 if you want, then. Otherwise, that extra 180 Precision is always worth it if you don’t have raid boons, even if you only get the bonus in Air.

Mate, what you explain only apples to solo play. This is a multiplayer game. In places where your damage output actually matters, you’ll have teammates. You’ll have boons and you’ll have profession-specific buffs as well. And guess what, in these places Assassin gear will waste stats because you’ll overcap your crit chance. If you’re planning to solo instanced content, then by all means, go for it. Unless it’s fractals, because stat conversion. But for generic PvE? It’s not worth having a second set of gear. It’s not even worth swapping stats on legendary gear, because it’s way too much clicking for way too little effect.

And the effect is too little. You’re giving up a lot of Power for that extra Precision (which, again, will be wasted where it actually matters). On-crit effects have ICDs, so you’ll get 100% uptime on these in full zerk, simply thanks to the large number of hits you’re getting.

mygamingid.5816:

I assume you want to trait 3-1-2 for Air? A 20% recharge cut on a medium recharge utility, plus a single stack of might? You’d take that over an effective doubling of the effect of Signet of Fire in Air, where you’ll be for at least half the time? 3-3-2 is great for PvP, but fairly useless in PvE.

3-3-x really. The 20% damage modifier on a broken defiance bar is a huge advantage against champs. But if you pick the heal glyph 3-1-x is a valid option. Using Fresh Air makes Aeromancer’s Training slightly better as you spend more time actually in Air. But it’s still not worth it.

mygamingid.5816:

If you’re fighting non-expansion trash mobs, sure. Anything will work. Go Cleric’s Scepter/Empty and you can survive well enough. If you’re fighting expansion mobs without raid boons – or even have a veteran show up – things survive quite a lot longer. They’ll survive longer still if you handicap yourself with a raid build and don’t bring raid boons.

I prefer to handicap myself slightly in the open world rather than handicap myself heavily in instanced content.

STIHL.2489:

Feanor.2358:

STIHL.2489:

PvP is very accessible to you, in fact you can even have your very own arena. Care to try again?

Same for raids. Everyone can create a raid squad, invite people and enter instance.

PvP gives you full rewards just for trying.. raids don’t.

Ah, so it’s not raids that are inaccessible, it’s their rewards. Thanks for proving yet again you’re only after the shinies.

mygamingid.5816:

Feanor.2358:

Doesn’t matter, unless you’re trying to raid with a composition that doesn’t supply said boons. And if you are, you’re either experienced enough to not need build advices or you shouldn’t do it. In open world/dungeons/fractals the difference will be minimal and it’s just not worth having a secondary set of gear with the same function or stat-swapping it all the time. Of course, if it doesn’t bother you to stat-swap (or have no intention to run high-end group content whatsoever), by all means, go for Assassin’s.

Based on what we’ve seen so far, I don’t believe the OP is seeking raid advice. Seems like straight build help, mostly for open world. That “minimal difference” is pretty huge when you’re talking about crit chance without raid buffs on a build that assumes critical hits to flow correctly.

Feanor.2358:

x-2-x Air is a waste on staff. You don’t spend enough time in Air to be worth it. Both other traits are much better. You either get glyph CD reduction (more Glyph of Storms) or a strong damage modifier against hard-cc’d targets.

You’ll be in Air for at least 9 seconds a pop. Five of those are waiting on Overload Air, four are casting Overload Air. You’ll have a Conjure in your hand for the first 5 seconds, but you’ll still be in Air. Even casting every Fire attack you can, you’ll be in Air plenty to take advantage of 3-2-2.

If you insist on wasting stats, that’s up to you. But at least be objective. There are no issues with playing Fresh Air solo using full zerk stats. It gives you 65% crit from stats + Signet of Fire + Sigil of Accuracy, which you should run anyway. 65% chance per hit and you hit multiple times every second when you stack on top of each other Overload Air, Glyph of Storms, Lava Font, Meteor Shower… And then there’s Fury.

Same goes for the trait. If you want to take a trait for half the effect for about a second on most fights not featuring a champ, that’s up to you. The trait is used on x/Warhorn builds because you spend the majority of your time there and because you also have a strong attack skill which benefits from the cooldown reduction. On staff, it’s still a waste. Because you start in Air, by casting Overload. In many cases, before you actually engage, to just leave the damage area and move to Fire. By the time you should go back to Air, the fight is over.

Astralporing.1957:

TheRandomGuy.7246:

Astralporing.1957:

Yes, the toxic behaviour existed in dungeons too, but it could be easily ignored, because it was not supported by game mechanics.

Honestly I can’t remember a single mechanic that requires people to be “toxic” to beat it.

Indeed, no mechanic requires people to be toxic. On the other hand, elitists find much more support for their behaviour in raids than in dungeons.

Wrong.

STIHL.2489:

PvP is very accessible to you, in fact you can even have your very own arena. Care to try again?

Same for raids. Everyone can create a raid squad, invite people and enter instance.
In exactly the same manner people have issues doing it I have issues doing PvP. So no, I don’t need to try again. The example is valid.

STIHL.2489:

TheRandomGuy.7246:

Astralporing.1957:

Yes, the toxic behaviour existed in dungeons too, but it could be easily ignored, because it was not supported by game mechanics.

Honestly I can’t remember a single mechanic that requires people to be “toxic” to beat it.

And yet.. so many of them chose that route, Wonder why that is?

Could it be… gasp… because of the people?

Astralporing.1957:

There are several points on which raids are different than dungeons. In most cases those differences are not binary but a question of scale. You have already mentioned greater dependence on builds and on gear tier. Another is utilization of partywipe mechanics – in dungeons there were practically no mechanics where a mistake of a single person could wipe a whole group, and almost no situations (barring total wipe) that you couldn’t recover from.

That’s just difficulty. And like it was said, dungeons fell short of providing an actual challenge, so a higher difficulty level was needed.

Astralporing.1957:

But the thing that pains me the most (and the thing that is directly tied to what this thread is about, maddoctor) is the fact that raids promote the elitist behaviour in ways dungeons never did. Yes, the toxic behaviour existed in dungeons too, but it could be easily ignored, because it was not supported by game mechanics.

That’s outright false. Elitism existed in dungeons long before raids were added to the game and it had very much the same properties. You still got judged by an arbitrary measure (LI/AP). You still got judged by your knowledge of specific mechanics (bosses/bosses+skips). In the end, you still got judged by your ability to complete the content in quick and efficient manner. There’s zero difference.

Astralporing.1957:

Which brings us to the last point: there’s also a difference in the attitudes of devs. The level of importance devs assign to raids (and to raiding community) is orders of magnitude greater that they’ve assigned to dungeons. It’s so great that it impacts other content as well (which never happened with dungeons). As such, it makes raid really hard to ignore if you happen to dislike them.

Like, we never had meta built around dungeons? And balance changes affecting that meta? Dude, get serious…

STIHL.2489:

Feanor.2358:

STIHL.2489:

Feanor.2358:

STIHL.2489:

Feanor.2358:

STIHL.2489:

Henry.5713:

And this, my friends, is why we can not have nice things.

I agree 100%, this game was really nice, till they put in something as out of place as raids into it.

“Nice” is subjective, which makes your whole statement more or less irrelevant. There are players who stay in the game because of raids. I bet they’d use different adjectives.

That was my entire point, that “nice” is entirely subjective. Good to see it did not go to waste. And no doubt that players quit over raids being put in, which again.. makes everything subjective, just because you like it, does not mean it was a net positive for the game or the games community.

Quitting over raids being put in the game is outright stupid. The game gets new content. You don’t like it? Then don’t play it. Simple. I don’t like pvp and I don’t play it. Do you see me quitting because the game features it? No, I stick to the content I like.

Quitting because raids don’t get put in would be considered equally as stupid.

But that is because everything is subjective, what you might think is stupid another may feel is valid.

No, it won’t. Quitting because you’ve exhausted content and have nothing more to do in the game is normal. Quitting because new content got added and you can’t possibly play a game featuring a content you don’t like – that is stupid.

Quitting because the new content is not accessible to you and thus you are stonewalled in your progression in the game, is a fully legitimate and very common reason most people stop playing a game.

Quitting because you can do all the content is a totally stupid reason to quit ,as for exhausting the content, to coin a phrase from a WoW dev “it great to hear how there is nothing to do from people who have only completed 25% of the expansions objectives”

Validity is all about perspective.

So I should quit because PvP is inaccessible to me and thus the rest of the content in the game (which is orders of magnitude more) is somehow irrelevant? Sorry, I don’t see it. It is still a stupid reason.

Axl.8924:

I think i get it.Overcharge fire gives 10 stacks of might, so if i do that first i would get a nice damage bonus, and if i combine that with say all the other fire attacks i do really good dmg.

In any case, much better than if you wait in Air, doing autos.

I should add, the above explanation concerns the standard staff build. The Fresh Air one plays a bit differently. There you swap to Air immediately after Overloading Fire, and wield a conjure (either Lightning Hammer or Fiery Greatsword). Both have a decent autoattack damage, and you supplement that with Overloading Air twice (using Fresh Air trait to recharge Air immediately after overload) until your Fire attunement comes off cooldown.

mygamingid.5816:

All of Quantify’s builds assume near-perfect raid boons from a Druid, PS Warrior, and Chronomancer. Their trait and gear choices are made knowing that they’ll make up for any deficiencies with the raid boons. If you have full raid boons, go with Quantify’s build and don’t bother reading any further. If you don’t have those boons, then your performance will drop off quickly from expectations without making some big changes.

Doesn’t matter, unless you’re trying to raid with a composition that doesn’t supply said boons. And if you are, you’re either experienced enough to not need build advices or you shouldn’t do it. In open world/dungeons/fractals the difference will be minimal and it’s just not worth having a secondary set of gear with the same function or stat-swapping it all the time. Of course, if it doesn’t bother you to stat-swap (or have no intention to run high-end group content whatsoever), by all means, go for Assassin’s.

mygamingid.5816:

Fire is typically traited 1-1-1, but that only makes sense if you’re dropping blast finishers. The Fresh Air build has no blast finishers. Since you’ll be in melee range anyway, I recommend 1-1-3 for the blindness. The combo of Burning Precision and Burning Ashes will provide decent protection. If you don’t care about that, trait Fire 2-1-2 for reduced recharge on Conjures and Might on everything cast in Fire.

1-1-2 could be acceptable for Fire traits, though I still prefer 1-1-1. The last grandmaster is pathetic for PvE. In the rare cases where you do need to blind foes, you have Sandstorm which is soooo much better.

mygamingid.5816:

Air should be traited 3-2-2 for Fresh Air to cap crit chance in Air. Quantify uses the Glyph recharge trait “Inscription”, but they also assume Spotter, Fury, and Banner of Discipline will max their Precision. You won’t have those, so you need more Precision of your own.

x-2-x Air is a waste on staff. You don’t spend enough time in Air to be worth it. Both other traits are much better. You either get glyph CD reduction (more Glyph of Storms) or a strong damage modifier against hard-cc’d targets.

mygamingid.5816:

Just keep in mind that what Quantify is presenting is very focused on raids and makes assumptions based on their own capabilities and needs. In that context, those builds are outstanding. Outside of that context, don’t be afraid to make adjustments.

That I agree with.

Axl.8924:

I got more to ask guys so bear with me:

Qtfy says that i should take summon fiery greatsword and according to what i saw the fresh air build is, it says:Go use overcharge use lightning then use lightningstorm then go fire throw meteor use lava font then go fiery greatsword and then back to air ele charge.Wouldn’t you have to constantly apply lava font for it to be useful? I am messing around with fresh air build and right now my luck is far too low at a whopping 17% critical hit chance.

First off, you might check the other sections of the build. It assumes gear with Berserker stats, so you should have high crit chance even on your own. Obviously Fresh Air isn’t going to work well if you can’t crit reliably. You should also take a look at the video showing the skill rotation.

FGS is used to fill a gap in your damage skills right after you switch to Air because of the weak damage skills staff has in this attunement. You only hold it until you Overload Air and switch back to Fire.

The Fire part of the rotation also doesn’t only feature Lava Font and Meteor Shower. At the very least you should Overload Fire, as it’s a solid damage skill, then immediately use Lava Font and either use your icebow or throw some autos until Lava Font is up again. The point of this part of the rotation is to minimize your time outside of Fire. You could likely switch to Air immediately, but then you’ll have the full cooldown of the just overloaded Fire attunement to wait before returning there. You just do part of the waiting while still in Fire to increase your damage output.

Kaleban.9834:

But my question is, and especially considering the upcoming expansion and elite specs, what exactly is the point of having 9 professions with 2 elite specs each if they all do the same thing?

Different gameplay. Finding better immersion, better match for your own fantasy. Specializing the elite lines takes that away, as it binds together function and specific playstyle. It always has some of this, of course. For instance Tempest doesn’t quite have the “attunement dancing” style of core ele. But you still get more choices than you would if it was solely specialized in a single role.

For generic PvE you can use whatever suits your fancy. Personally, I’m not sold on either condi or even hybrid weaver. I’m first going to try it as full power. But if you prefer otherwise – by all means, do so. It’s only going to matter in high-level fractals and raids.

Vindicus.2130:

Feanor.2358:

Flying mounts will make gliding obsolete. I doubt they will ever appear.

Cars made horse drawn buggies obsolete, but progress always finds a way.

Except that’s not the real world. It’s a videogame and it’s a business. There’s no “progress” because the development is driven by the designers, not the users. Gliding is one of the major selling points of HoT. Why would the developers make it obsolete? To undermine their own sales?

Arcane only works in group environments for the power staff build. It relies on Bountiful Power damage modifier, so unless you have a large number of different buffs on yourself it is strictly weaker than the Air variant.

The rotation is pretty much the same as before. You should still use both overloads (Air and Fire) as a part of it and you should still use Glyph of Storms while in Air attunement.

STIHL.2489:

Feanor.2358:

STIHL.2489:

Feanor.2358:

STIHL.2489:

Henry.5713:

And this, my friends, is why we can not have nice things.

I agree 100%, this game was really nice, till they put in something as out of place as raids into it.

“Nice” is subjective, which makes your whole statement more or less irrelevant. There are players who stay in the game because of raids. I bet they’d use different adjectives.

That was my entire point, that “nice” is entirely subjective. Good to see it did not go to waste. And no doubt that players quit over raids being put in, which again.. makes everything subjective, just because you like it, does not mean it was a net positive for the game or the games community.

Quitting over raids being put in the game is outright stupid. The game gets new content. You don’t like it? Then don’t play it. Simple. I don’t like pvp and I don’t play it. Do you see me quitting because the game features it? No, I stick to the content I like.

Quitting because raids don’t get put in would be considered equally as stupid.

But that is because everything is subjective, what you might think is stupid another may feel is valid.

No, it won’t. Quitting because you’ve exhausted content and have nothing more to do in the game is normal. Quitting because new content got added and you can’t possibly play a game featuring a content you don’t like – that is stupid.

Astralporing.1957:

maddoctor.2738:

Substatic.6958:

What the difficulties help do is give more casual players the experience and introduction to eventually do normal difficulty.

No they don’t. It’s like saying that doing T1 Observatory helps in any way or form in doing T4 CM Observatory, which is false.

Doing T1 Observatory helps with doing t2 Observatory, which in turn helps T3, which helps t4. And doing t4 does help in doing t4 cm, even if the CM doesn’t have quite the same mechanics.

Besides, i don’t even know why you are bringing up CMs when most people on both sides agree that completely redoing mechanics for easy mode is likely not the best idea. You should rather compare t1, t2, t3 and t4.

It really doesn’t. And bringing up CM is valid, because normal mode is too easy and can still be done by random groups of mostly random players doing random stuff. There’s only one thing that prepares you for 99/100 CM and that’s playing 99/100 CM. It doesn’t matter if you grind the normal mode for months or just play it once to unlock the CM. You’re still equally unprepared. Sure, you’ll know some basic mechanics. It doesn’t matter, you’ll still fail. Because the actual challenge mode has more mechanics which are tighter and more punishing. You’ll have to learn how to handle them from scratch in either case. Same applies to raids.

P2W? No thanks.

STIHL.2489:

Feanor.2358:

STIHL.2489:

Henry.5713:

And this, my friends, is why we can not have nice things.

I agree 100%, this game was really nice, till they put in something as out of place as raids into it.

“Nice” is subjective, which makes your whole statement more or less irrelevant. There are players who stay in the game because of raids. I bet they’d use different adjectives.

That was my entire point, that “nice” is entirely subjective. Good to see it did not go to waste. And no doubt that players quit over raids being put in, which again.. makes everything subjective, just because you like it, does not mean it was a net positive for the game or the games community.

Quitting over raids being put in the game is outright stupid. The game gets new content. You don’t like it? Then don’t play it. Simple. I don’t like pvp and I don’t play it. Do you see me quitting because the game features it? No, I stick to the content I like.

If mobs aren’t sitting in your aoes, you’re doing it wrong.

STIHL.2489:

Henry.5713:

And this, my friends, is why we can not have nice things.

I agree 100%, this game was really nice, till they put in something as out of place as raids into it.

“Nice” is subjective, which makes your whole statement more or less irrelevant. There are players who stay in the game because of raids. I bet they’d use different adjectives.

Vayne.8563:

I consider this to be one of the biggest issues with the game. I’ve spoken out about it before, but clearly the powers that be don’t care very much that people don’t have access to the story all the way through. It’s bad enough you can’t play Season 1, but the connecting stories that lead from HoT to Season 3 should have been playable by everyone.

I’m not saying everyone needs to have rewards for doing it. I’m saying we need to be able to experience that in game as our characters.

This genre is called mmoRPG. Seems like some people at Anet don’t really focus very much on the RPG part.

I know I like my characters to be motivated to do stuff. So much so that I’ve finished the personal story on 17 characters.

A raid story mode shouldn’t even have been a question. It should have been a given…in my opinion.

I don’t think many MMORPGs put that much effort in the RPG part. Let’s be honest, the writing in GW2 doesn’t live up to good RPG standards. Take joining the Shining Blade as an example. It was rushed and pretty illogical, even for my human noble character. Imagine what’s like for an asura or a charr. So… while I generally agree and would like more actual role-playing, I don’t think it’s happening in this particular game and I don’t see hypothetical “story mode raids” contributing at all to it.

Forget the bosses. What about all those trash mobs? Scores upon scores of (mostly, excluding the Orr campaign) living creatures. Many of them sentient. Have you considered, even for a second, while you were tearing mercilessly through their ranks that they might have had families?

Aldath.1275:

Can we stop blaming the community for content that Anet badly implemented?

Raids are completely fine, there was elitism even before they came. I’ve been using a Condi Rev using Carrion gear on T2/T3 Fracs since pretty much HoT came out and I’ve had no problem. Remember when Dungeon LFG was “Lvl 80 exp only”? What about those peeps that think an elementalist with Zerk gear or a Ranger with Viper is automatically better than a Reaper with Soldier that will end up dealing more damage than the ranger and ele because he will fall down less? Worse, more LFGs aren’t even speedrun groups.

The thing is, Raids didn’t turn the community into an elite festa out of the blues, this always existed.

Now, the implementation of Raids and how Anet manages them is bad, but well, what can I expect when they promised no geaer threadmill but they still introduce it in the form of new stat combos each expac? Raids in every other MMO I know, except maybe Wildstar, have an “easy” mode. FFXIV, WoW, Rift… This, being a mostly casual game, SHOULD have it, but Anet has been quite naive with the way they handle it to the public, their statements pretty much being “we can but we won’t because this is so pro”. To be honest, I understand why people feels so frustrated; we get recolored enemies and NPC models as bosses in fractals, Raids get so much better enemy and scenario design…

Has it occurred to you that maybe this game is different because it already features easier group content? Like fractals?

mygamingid.5816:

Axl.8924:

So wait:Condi Eles are kittened in pve outside raids? So what do you go for for pve solo? dagger focus? I said dagger focus because of onyx skin thing from earth which gives you protection.

Nope, they’re amazing everywhere. Feanor just loves power staff Ele. D/F in Fire gives three skills with AOE and you can get more with Arcane Brilliance and Conjure Fiery Greatsword.

I actually preferred Scepter/Warhorn, but now that its burst is nowhere near what it used to be the versatility of staff wins it for me.

And please be objective. The AOEs on d/f are nothing to brag about regarding cleave damage. Flamewall is tiny, and so is Burning Speed. Overload Fire is strong, but its radius is the same as your smallest AOE on staff (Lava Font). There’s also Drake’s Breath, but it’s a cone, which makes it less reliable against larger packs of enemies.

Compare this to Overload Air + Lava Font + Meteor Shower on top of each other. You create a larger kill zone in less time and the enemies inside die faster, due to virtually no ramp-up. The only cases where d/f can match its efficiency is when fighting against single strong opponent. To put it short, it lacks good cleave like I already said.

The rotation is irrelevant in the open world, you never actually need it because everything either dies too fast or gets zerged down by players and you can kill it by just pressing ‘1’.

Playing meta isn’t always about being optimal. I mean, nobody cares how optimal they are in the open world. It’s just about being too lazy to swap gear and build every time when you pop in some place where it does matter.

Tier 1 (easy) – Escort, Trio, Cairn, MO, Samarog, Gorseval
Tier 2 (mediocre, there’s some stuff which can go wrong) – Sloth, VG, KC, Sabetha
Tier 3 (in that order) – Xera, Deimos, Matthias

Marauder is fine for soloing, though it definitely isn’t better. It’s a decent stat to give you some hp buffer while you’re learning the class.

The thing about ele is, if you’re not in melee range you’re seriously limiting your dps output. So dagger 1 is fine, tho the 1 you want to use is the Air one, not Fire. In any case, you only use this if you don’t have a better damaging ability at your disposal, namely Overload Air.

Personally? Staff. Used to run Scepter/Warhorn, but since both OA and Phoenix got rekt it kinda lost it’s selling point (the really high burst). Of course, you can still run it, I just find staff to be a bit more versatile, mostly because of its utility in Water (two water fields, blast, pulsing cleanse and aoe chill). I don’t like Focus. It’s needlessly defensive for PvE. It has a single offensive skill, Flamewall. And it’s not really useful for a power setup, tho it is very strong for the condi one. Provided you can keep the target on it.

Swiftwynd.1685:

Feanor.2358:

Piercing Shards and Bolt to the Heart at the same time? Yeah right, seems legit.

You do realize you can already do this right? On base elementalist?

Wrong example. OK, BttH and Piercing Shards while casting Meteor Shower. Plus the damage modifiers from being attuned to Fire.

mygamingid.5816:

Axl.8924:

From what i’ve seen i’m starting to get a grudge playing a ele.Maybe having full condi gear but its beyond frustrating trying to survive and getting downed instantly and then using mist to move a few feet away and still die instantly.

This class just feels so squishy and weak that it becomes a chore to get Hero points. I’m not even sure how people can stand tangled depths with all the billions of adds and low dmg.

It’s difficult to talk about Eles, because many players think only in terms of raids and the Raid Meta, where damage is avoided mechanically, buffbots take your offensive performance to otherwise-impossible levels, and someone else provides your heals. The Raid Meta is “meta” only to the extent you raid or otherwise run with the buffbot trinity. In raids, a glass cannon Ele is the most efficient build. Outside of raids, it’s heavily dependent on your capabilities and preferences.

I would expect players to get frustrated playing a Raid Meta build in expansion content without Raid Meta support. GW2’s expansion content isn’t anything like raiding. It requires something closer to a WvW-style build. You have to damage your opponents AND sustain. The Raid Meta doesn’t care about any of that, because it isn’t relevant to raid content.

So the problem isn’t that the player is bad or the class is bad, it’s that the build is being used outside of the context it was built for. No buffbots = no Raid Meta. For example, Berserker’s gear and a crit-reliant build (Sigil of Air, Scholar Runes, High Ferocity) is great if you have Spotter, Banner of Discipline, and 100% Fury uptime. If you don’t have those boons, you’ve brutally nerfed yourself. So what do you do?

Ignoring the defensive side of things, a condi build removes reliance on critical hits. You don’t have to worry about Scholar rune uptime, either. Spec the Fire trait line for Might (1-1-2) and you gain a ton of self-sufficiency. I like vanilla Fire/Earth/Arcane, but am considering Fire/Earth/Weaver. Earth and Arcane both have some nice sustain traits that will keep you up longer than a Fire/Air/Tempest, too.

You like to raid on occasion? Good news! Condi Ele is meta there, too. The preferred build is Fire/Arcane/Tempest. It’s just a good choice to make right now.

The condi build is crap outside of raids. It only has single-target dps, and builds without good cleave are PITA to play in open world because it feels sluggish. And honestly, I don’t like it in raids either. Camp Fire, too boring.

You’re also wrong in saying open world “requires” WvW style build. It requires nothing of the sort. You can go full glass everywhere if you like, because open world is just that easy. It is designed to be that easy. The jungle can be deadly, sure. But only at your first contact. The attacks that can down you all have long telegraphs and you can easily avoid them.

The raid power meta in fact is extremely good for generic PvE. You have excellent cleave and the enemies have low enough hp so you can clear whole groups very efficiently. It doesn’t matter that you don’t have a chrono and a ps to support you offensively. Your damage is still high enough for the weak enemies you’re facing. It doesn’t matter there is no druid to heal you, you simply don’t get hit by anything big. Usually you don’t even need your heal skill – you simply clear the group and the passive out of combat regen tops you up before you reach the next one.

Of course, if you prefer to run a tankier build, by all means, do so. The thing about open world is, it’s so easy you can make everything work. That’s the intent. But it doesn’t require you to play in any specific way. Just because you see glass eles getting downed regularly it doesn’t mean you can’t play glass ele VERY successfully in the same situation.

mygamingid.5816:

I’m working on a D/D Fresh Air Auramancer build for general gameplay. It might be a good option for you.

It uses Air/Water/Tempest for auras and boons, Zealot’s gear, Leadership runes, and Accuracy & Concentration sigils. With Fresh Air, you’re constantly generating auras from Overload Air, granting you healing, regen, and boons.

It’s definitely not a raid meta spec, but it’s safe for soloists without completely sacrificing damage. Swap Soothing Power for Powerful Aura and you’ve got a great team support spec, so it’s versatile. I’m likely to work on this set after I get my condi gear settled.

Eh… I really wanted to make a Leadership rune build work, but it just felt like I’m gimping myself on purpose for no good reason. I ended up switching to the standard zerk/scholar fire/air/tempest Fresh Air. D/D has enough built-in heals and control to let you survive. I tried it solo against many champs in the open world and it generally fared really well.

Flying mounts will make gliding obsolete. I doubt they will ever appear.

Again, it’s not about the heal. It’s about the party dealing 20%+ more damage or not. Which is an amount that always matters. It will always make things noticeably easier and smoother. It’s not about the community, or the game, or the raids themselves. This is just how the balance is. If you think the players in WoW are so much different, you’re wrong. Players are the same everywhere. It’s the game that’s different and it’s the game which creates the different results. If you want the status quo to change, I already said what needs to happen: either the class-specific buffs of the Druid become available to other classes or they start affecting 10 people. Well, or they get nerfed into oblivion.

Swag.5483:

Hey guys,

I am a returning player, I’ve done one full play through (map competition and getting skill points) at launch of HoT with my necro but now I am trying with my ele and struggling a bit. I am only 55% unlocked on my tempest so I’m not using it and instead I’m playing fire/lightning and water with a dagger/focus. I am having a hard time with survivability which maybe is a l2p issue but I was curious if there was a spec or tip I could follow to help make the pve Hot experience easier, and keep me alive longer (I am in full exotic berserker gear).

P.S. I really enjoy the fantasy of daggers, so if at all possible can I keep using a dagger? I’m willing to try other weapons to make my life easier, but would prefer to use a dagger.

Thanks.

Ultimately it’s L2P. The tankier you get, the more survivable you’ll be, but also the more time it would take you to kill enemies, so the more damage you’ll need to soak. You’ll have to learn the enemies and their attacks, otherwise you will be dying a lot, no matter what build and gear you run. Of course, while you’re learning you might feel more comfortable with a bit higher defences. However, nobody can tell you what will be the good balance for you. Experiment. I have a friend who runs full cele d/d core ele in HoT and is fine. I run full glass staff. So… “find your way and have fun” is the best advice I can give.

ZeftheWicked.3076:

Druid is not getting replaced because of religious belief “he’s the best” without looking at the bigger picture. If we put emotions aside and focus on numbers the answer might be much less druid friendly then one thinks.

Or if you take a look at the facts you might realize the reason druid is meta isn’t because someone believes it is the best, but because it actually is. Don’t get me wrong, there are other classes which can heal just as well. But there is no other healer which increases the party dps this much. In order for even one druid to get replaced, all of its buffs should be either available through other classes or affecting 10 people. It is unrealistic to think of the third option, introduce a healer which can offset the group dps loss with his personal dps. The amount of personal dps required for that would make it flat out broken.

Piercing Shards and Bolt to the Heart at the same time? Yeah right, seems legit.

Makai.3429:

Doing this would make me quit the game. It’s already become a ridiculous APM fest since HoT.

Feanor.2358:

FogLeg.9354:

And now, the challenge for you to try. Remove all your legendary gear, and only use white rarity. Fight without weapon like proper hero. Make sure no traits are selected. This way, the enemies you find too easy will be more challenging to YOU while everyone else is not affected.

Not really, no. The enemies in this game aren’t easy because of your power level, they are easy because you learn their behavior, you know what to expect and how to counter it. Less power will just make them take more time to kill, while posing exactly the same level of threat: none. That’s not a challenge, that’s only grind.

That being said, I don’t mind open world to be the cakewalk it is. There’s enough instanced content for players who seek challenge.

P.S. In my opinion, HoT is still cakewalk, not “horrible disaster”.

Fixed that.

You forgot to fix in the same way the original claim which labelled it a horrible disaster.

maddoctor.2738:

The conversion rate of free to play players into paid players is low and that’s confirmed by NCsoft and Arenanet.

Here is a question:
Can it be that one of the reasons is because Core Tyria is boring? How big would that reason actually be?
Food for thought.

Technically it can, but I highly doubt it. Conversion rates like this are always low in the game business.

Depends how high is your personal bar for challenge. Not many people can solo a dungeon boss. Primarily because they won’t have the required patience and dedication to fail over and over again on it until they figure it out.

PookieDaWombat.6209:

Feanor.2358:

PookieDaWombat.6209:

Honestly, adding more/proper boons to enemies aren’t going to make them “zomg the insta death” to lower level players. In fact it might make them consider their choice of skills a little more, or traits, etc that allow for boon strip and condi cleanse, etc. OP does have a point that once you reach a certain level, the mobs do become a little easy to faceroll without much thought to gear or even personal skill. Sure it could take a while but most times when doing a map open or something, or even a HP in core tyria I find myself literally running in a circle around an enemy with my 1 set to auto while I drink my coffee. I only ever use the other skills if I want to practice a combo or something like that, but usually its just a kiting game.

There’s a problem with that. The game already has places where you need to think about your build. Instanced content, pvp modes, specific achievements. Open world serves as a kind of sandbox, which allows you to “play your way”. This is even true for HoT zones. All they require you to do is step away from the red circles or lines. Sometimes it might help you if you can break out of immob, but even without it you can generally play with anything you want. I don’t think that should change, tbh.

See, and there lies the rub. I’ve seen no shortage of DPS meter threads lately where someone inevitably brings up player skill levels. I’m all for play your way, but i should not be able to run a literal circle around a mob in a level 70-80 zone with letting my auto attack kill them. Sure I can kill them faster, but the point here is I don’t HAVE to. Might hit my heal on occasion if they manage to land a hit. Might hit a daze on them or a knockback if they get too close, but that does nothing for me as a player. I’m sorry, but what you simply say as “get out of the red circle” is over simplifying the fights in HoT maps. You have to do way more than that to survive there and there are a lot of players coming from core Tyria maps that have developed very bad habits, don’t do many instanced things because their skill level is too low and they get kicked by meter users and then go to a HoT map and get wrecked by pocket raptors and a few mordrem guards.

I’m not saying ramp up the enemies in QD, but if you’re in frostgorge or fireheart or even blazeridge, you should be more concerned about knowing your skills and build options and not just rolling over anything with some hodge podge of gear that makes no sense together while smashing 1 on your keyboard. It might even make trying to get level appropriate gear more more rewarding for the players as they level as opposed to “oh, this one has numbers that are a little bigger than what i’m wearing right now so sure I’ll wear it because ultimately it doesn’t matter”.

I’ve bolded the places where you went wrong.

First, these players got kicked long before dps meters became a thing. The truth is, it takes patience to teach new players stuff and more often than not veteran players don’t want to bother doing it, they just want a quick run. You just need to be persistent and to actually learn things. You had to be persistent back before dps meters, you have to be persistent now.

Second, amping up the mobs in high-level zones won’t make casual players care about their builds. It will scare them off the high-level zones. It won’t be healthy for the game.

By the way if you’re dying to pocket raptors in the jungle, I’m willing to bet you’re also dying in Cursed Shore.

Zodi.8932:

That map TD has basically died out now. No one enjoyed it much to begin with but now its rare to see the meta happening. That means the chances of that egg sac appearing are a million to one

Weird. I still enjoy it and if I only go for the meta I usually find lots of squads in LFG. And usually their maps are all full. Quite the definition you have for a dead map.

PookieDaWombat.6209:

Honestly, adding more/proper boons to enemies aren’t going to make them “zomg the insta death” to lower level players. In fact it might make them consider their choice of skills a little more, or traits, etc that allow for boon strip and condi cleanse, etc. OP does have a point that once you reach a certain level, the mobs do become a little easy to faceroll without much thought to gear or even personal skill. Sure it could take a while but most times when doing a map open or something, or even a HP in core tyria I find myself literally running in a circle around an enemy with my 1 set to auto while I drink my coffee. I only ever use the other skills if I want to practice a combo or something like that, but usually its just a kiting game.

There’s a problem with that. The game already has places where you need to think about your build. Instanced content, pvp modes, specific achievements. Open world serves as a kind of sandbox, which allows you to “play your way”. This is even true for HoT zones. All they require you to do is step away from the red circles or lines. Sometimes it might help you if you can break out of immob, but even without it you can generally play with anything you want. I don’t think that should change, tbh.

maddoctor.2738:

Faelun.7563:

I’ve recently returned from a year and a half hiatus from GW2 and every time I join a group now i’m told i’m not doing ‘max dps’ and then I get kicked.

This is interesting. How many groups did you join and ALL of them kicked you for not doing max dps?

Every single one, I imagine. Only Fennec and Contam are ever allowed in public groups now. Haven’t you noticed?
/s

FogLeg.9354:

And now, the challenge for you to try. Remove all your legendary gear, and only use white rarity. Fight without weapon like proper hero. Make sure no traits are selected. This way, the enemies you find too easy will be more challenging to YOU while everyone else is not affected.

Not really, no. The enemies in this game aren’t easy because of your power level, they are easy because you learn their behavior, you know what to expect and how to counter it. Less power will just make them take more time to kill, while posing exactly the same level of threat: none. That’s not a challenge, that’s only grind.

That being said, I don’t mind open world to be the cakewalk it is. There’s enough instanced content for players who seek challenge.

P.S. HoT is still cakewalk, not “horrible disaster”.