Warriors also take 50% more damage while frenzy is up btw and lose a utility slot.
Thats hardly a disadvantage, since your enemy takes 100% more damage and you’ll double the use of every damage modifier you have.
Now should there be no burst in the game…
I didn’t say there shouldn’t be burst in the game, not even once. 100% more damage is just too much. 33% haste would suffice to be considered burst.
Let me show you the two suggestions I made in the thread I pointed to:
Burst mechanics are fun and removing mechanics outrages players. So I think Quickness should stay but be changed. The Sigil of Rage and Critical Haste need to go.
Hand Quickness out to all classes but put it into the healing slot
Reduce Quickness from +100% to +33% haste and remove its drawbacks, this would put it in line with defensive cooldowns
The problem with quickness is that it has the potential to turn otherwise balanced abilities, such as pistol whip, into gimics. Currently though, the skills it interacts with to create issues is fairly short, and the draw backs of using any quickness skill turn it into “use this skill, skilled players now pop burst”.
On a side note, you don’t need frenzy to land 100 blades, hell you don’t even need 100 blades to kill people on great-sword warrior.
If you have either invul abilities or Quickness yourself, yeah it can be a fair battle. Unless your enemy happens to gain Quickness through its secondary sources:
I know some of you are enjoying being overpowered by Quickness and easy kills a lot but believe me, it’ll get old very fast and its bad for developing skill.
Like Quickness Thiefs complaining about Retaliation. I bet they don’t even know about http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Superior_Sigil_of_Purity or that conditions are ignored by Retaliation.
Updating post. Will add the minion damage as soon as I can confirm it working that way (I know it for the Bone Fiend but don’t have the numbers at this time).
You talk like 100B is the only ability a Warrior has. Thats plain wrong:
Warriors have other weapons
100B pressures the enemy, move or eat a lot of damage, if it isn’t damaging its CC by forcing your enemy to move
there are abilites besides Frenzy that allow you to get 100B through
Don’t be so narrow minded, Frenzy is NOT necessary, its cheap. You are even so used to its cheap gameplay that you became unable to play without it. There are 4 classes without Quickness (not counting the elite skills of Guardian and Mesmer) and they are far from unplayable, although they are at a disadvantage due to their quicknessless.
Axe genrates the most Life Force.
You gain 4% Life Force per hit on 8 hits with http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Ghastly_Claws
Thats 32% Life Force. Assuming you use it every time its available and get it through thats 32%/8seconds = 4%/s.
In both cases its a daring assumption to actually get the whole attack/chain through.
Another big advantage of Axe is, that you don’t have to use its first attack to actually reach the Life Force generation. In between Axe 2 you have 6,75 seconds (8 second cooldown minus channel time) to do something else without lowering your Life Force per second.
Que? Per your own thread (and I’m assuming you’re talking single target here, as you have a separate line for aoe), shouldn’t it be Dagger > Axe > Staff?
Whoops… You’re right. Was thinking a bit multitarget there…
When did this “we need progression for gaming to be meaningful” start?
Yes, its a good motivator to have some progression. But I never ever saw someone quit Counter-Strike saying “LOL i got a deagle and AWM already, endgame sucks, im out!!!111”
Its so refreshing to have MMO style PvP without power progression. Although I agree the bragging rights from sPvP should carry over to the open world (not WvWvW though).
The real issue is Quickness, with Thiefs, Warriors, Rangers and Engineers. Without quickness all of those are fine.
Only once Quickness has been dealth with, one will be able to determine if the escape abilities of Thief and Mesmer are too much.
If they were to remove quickness from a warrior they would have to severely up the weapon damage to compensate. Especially for the greatsword as it would gut the effectiveness of HB.
That or make HB a mobile cast. That I could live with.
Its not about Quickness on Warriors its about Quickness in general. Although I wouldn’t mind it being removed, I’d rather see it changed.
By the way your reliance on Quickness to pull of 100B is just another hint how broken Quickness is and how it dumbs down gameplay. If you can build your playstyle around a single ability, there is something wrong with it.
If I may be completely honest, you sound like a 12 year old who is upset because everything in your life isnt being handed to you. Welcome to the real world, sometimes things take a little effort.
I like most others I play games to be entertained, to take a break of the hardships of real life.
One thing the current most succesful games have in common, regardless of genre, is how conviently accessible content is. Which especially applies to succesful MMOs.
By having content not being available by simply pressing a button a developer blocks off a huge part of his player base of the content. (20% of the players have 80% of the playtime in WoW Source http://www.google.de/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=5&ved=0CEwQFjAE&url=http%3A%2F%2Fcs.hiram.edu%2F~walkerel%2Fcs363%2FWowGameHoursPresentation.ppt&ei=1Ux4UKWtM4zHsga49IHYCw&usg=AFQjCNEYjXUaceQVfxXH7yy2HrHhmBOEhg&sig2=lYKQNC5YVtRbwkmmrooxWQ&cad=rja )
Those that don’t have much time to invest in a game are also those guys that consume content the slowest and the customers with highest buying power.
Due to not having much time, for whatever reason, they are also impatient and will quickly abandon a game if it fails to deliver fun. The same kind of guy that wouldn’t bother to read a forum.
The game wouldn’t be damaged by an LFG tool, it would only gain by it.
OP talks like a guy who has never even tried to get into a dungeon, let alone play one.
Those issues are all negligible or avoidable.
I didn’t try to get into a dungeon so far. There are fresh memories of how annoying manual grouping is from my time in SWTOR. Won’t even try to group manually unless 4 guildmates where asking and I were confident to have the time to finish the dungeon.
EDIT: Whats with the hostility? Don’t get me wrong, I love Guild Wars 2! The PvP part alone will keep me with the game for month, one more reason to be sad about the yesterdayish stance towards PvE and automated grouping.
I’m not antisocial nor am I exceptionally lazy. Its rather a mix of being spoiled and not that interested into PvE.
I’ve got a few friends that stoped playing GW2 one of the reasons is the lack of a dungeon finder.
Searching for groups brings people together. The automated dungeon grouping, and the lack of commitment to the group, makes the MMO feel like a single player game. You could just as well be playing with bots. It’s horrible.
It doesn’t have to be that way. It would be the simplest thing to priorize players from your servers to form a group, before taking people from other servers.
Unless I end up with a horrible group, I stay to finish the dungeon. Though it has been 8 years since 2004, my live changed. Sometimes I have to get up and stop playing if real life calls. If that happens I don’t want to have a bad consciousness for forsaking the players I started the dungeon with. If they’d get a new guy within seconds, it would be a whole different story.
Of course everyone is entitled to his opinion but I consider the lack of a dungeon finder a flaw, a big one.
youre a baddie as well since you got no experience doing dungeons.so you dont want to be grouped with other baddies but you want others to be grouped with you.thats some nice logic there
Quite a daring assumption. I’ve been a succesful raidleader in several MMOs, know all 8 Professions and their abilities and I’m a baddie for not knowing the dungeons yet? I don’t think so.
Its just that I can’t be bothered to look for groups like its the MMO stoneage.
…
Just a small addition, SWTOR’s dungeon finder was added 6 months after release, WoW – WotLK expansion, no idea about DC universe. If those releases are the examples, then having dungeon finder on release is not the standart, as you’re trying to say.
You can expect a game released in 2012 to meet the standards of other MMOs that are out now. It doesn’t matter what WoW was like in 2004, its 2012. It matters whats out there today.
SWTOR paid deerly for this 6 month delay. They lost the majority of the PvE crowd to waiting too long with implementing a dungeon finder.
In general content has to be just one button away. GW2’s developers seem to know that, having their travel (instant travel without cooldown to every waypoint) and PvP (again instant travel without cooldown, automated grouping) systems in mind. I can’t wrap my head around why they wouldn’t approach instanced PvE content in the same manner.
Don’t get me wrong, there should be content you won’t be able to just faceroll your way through with a PuG but it should be at least possible to try.
Non condition damage is reduced by armor/toughness, Protection
Condition damage is only reduced by http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Signet_of_Judgment and similar skills (not by Protection and armor/toughness)
Removing Bleeding, regardless of how many stacks bleed has, counts as ONE conidition removal
Applying another stack of Bleeding doesn’t influence duration of existing Bleeds
The Bleeding container is limited to 25 stacks
Condition duration only increases damage if it adds a full second to the duration. Fractions of seconds don’t grant another tick of damage. There is one exception: with the trait http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Lingering_Curse the condition duration of scepter conditions are rounded up.
Scepter bleeds can have a maximum duration of 13 seconds
the power of conditions transfered by you changes from what they were to match the condition being applied by your stats. For example a thief applies 8 seconds of 43 bleed, if you send it back with regards it will tick for 100 if you are condition-geared
Minions
Minion attributes are only affected by traits. Your equip/stats doesn’t apply any effects/benefits to minions.
I use the crit chance mainly to proc the sigils and bleeds. By using Sigil of Earth on my Axe all three weapon sets apply bleeds, so the condition damage is used with every weapon set.
Another reason to choose the crit chance is the secondary stat bonus of Soul Reaping: critical damage. As a minmaxer it bothers me to have a stat bonus unused.
I choose Axe over Dagger for its range and superior Life Force generation
The power based damage of Death Shroud gets low but thats rather a constant. Even with high power, Life Blast pales in comparison to autto attacks, especially from MH-dagger.
Regarding the tankyness: with Protection reducing damage in leech state and the high Life Force generation I spend most of my time in Death Shroud. The Life Force bar fills up in no time with this build in addition conditions are almost no problem due to the way the build removes conditions. On top of that it has 3 stun breakes with one automatic Spectral Armor, one active Spectral Armor and one active Spectral Walk. Which all recharge 20% faster and last longer.
Regarding damage: conditions are send back by this build and add to your damage rather than theirs, in addition every condition on your enemy increases your damage by 2%. Together with Rune of Infiltration and http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Strength_of_Undeath you deal +20% damage while your enemy is below 50% health
Anyway, would you mind showing me your damage Death Shroud build?
Call me spoiled but I’m used to not having to put any effort into playing a dungeon, which makes me unwilling to do so.
I’m not alone with my stance towards “manual grouping”, its quite a flaw.
If I were to start Diablo 3, Battlefield 3, World of Warcraft or Star Wars the Old Republic (just to name a few) I could choose what content I want to play and instantly do so. Any obstacles between me and content are bad for the game, especially if other games don’t have them.
Everyone will bail at the first sign of trouble. It’ll just make things worse.
Can’t confirm this claim. It worked fine in World of Warcraft, DC Universe Online and Star Wars the Old Republic. In all three games you could leave the dungeon until you got a new guy and play other content during the wait. Thats exactly how it should be.
I’ve tried every single weapon spec with a warrior. Lots of trait combinations. I always end up having to spec frenzy, no matter if it’s with hammer, sword, greatsword or axe.
The reason is a warrior is completely kitable. He suffers from knockbacks, snares, immobilises and out of every class suffers the biggest dps drop if he isn’t next to his target.
Warrior frenzy is 4 seconds of haste + 50 percent increase damage TAKEN…(did you read that properly?) every 60 seconds.
Without haste the HB attack is pretty much useless, unless the person stands there for the entire 4 seconds (never).
So you want to negate any dps a warrior has in its entirety.
I never have issues with other players having haste, that’s why i carry a shield in the 2nd set + escape abilities. Are you really having issues avoiding people for 4 seconds?
Whenever I see an anti haste post all I can see is ‘I don’t want to spec my character with any sort of defence/escape abilities, I just want to go all out attack and because the only time I die is to haste thieves or warriors so could you nerf those please because then i’d dominate everything…’
So you’re saying a broken mechanic should stay because its fine on your Warrior?
Besides:
Even when taking 50% increased damage you’re dealing 100% more damage during Frenzy, putting you 50% ahead. In addition you will death blow and heal a lot faster
You could use ranged weapons, as can all professions, to counter kiting
You could actually use your abilities to counter kiting like:
And yes, http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Shield_Stance like all invul abilities counters Quickness best. But not all Professions have invul abilities and certainly won’t have them available as often as an attacker has Quickness available.
I never once did a dungeon in Guild Wars 2. My highest character is level 80 since weeks.
Its not that I’m not interested into Guild Wars 2 dungeons or not intereste into dungeons at all. The single reason I’m not doing dungeons is the lack of automatized grouping since:
Building a group is too much of a chore considering its automatized in other games
Once I’m in the dungeon I’m comitted and people depend on me continuing to play opposed to getting a new guy in no time
Someone could leave anytime bringing the group back to the searching phase
I could become stuck with a bad group, effectively wasting all my invested time
For me thats just unacceptable and makes Dungeons unbearable content until grouping becomes automatized. Once grouping is automatized:
I don’t have to spend time searching a group but can play the game instead
I’m not as commited to the group if the real life happens to get in the way, the system will get them a new guy in no time
Bad groups aren’t much of a loss since I didn’t invest time into searching for them anyway
Although I’m getting enough fun out of PvP to continue playing, it bugs me to have paid for content I won’t see. I’m aware that its quite a casual approach towards dungeon but thats where the money comes from: casuals.
Its important to know that minion damage (and stats overall) is independent from your characters stats. So you can choose what weapon you want to use with your minions.
Is the inconsistency with Life Force storage intended?
Currently an sPvP match is started at 0% Life Force. Later into the match a Necromancer carrys over any leftover Life Force after death.
’m not super familiar with Necros, although this build seems awfully tempting.
Why do you suggest leaving DS at roughly 60%? Can you only gain ~40% before the cooldown’s off again, or is that to take advantage of all of DS’s cooldowns being blown and to maximize DPS outside DS?
Because
You’ll want to have leftover Life Force for emergency situations
Life Blasts damage shrinks with your Life Force
Even at full Life Force you deall less damage in Death Shroud
You currently can’t see boons and conditions on yourself in Death Shroud
Tried that build weeks ago, you won’t be able to kill anything and with 1k Toughness any well balanced DPS will kill you in seconds DS or not.
Can’t confirm either of your claims. The only time I’m having real issues using that build is at the beginning of the match with 0% Life Force.
Its crucial to have the Runes and Sigils I mentioned to make this build work. You’ll be too vulnerable to conditions in Death Shroud otherwise.
In addition to CC, invulnerability/duration blocking, invisibility as counters, there is also confusion, reflection and retaliation (granted retaliation is a weak counter) which can seriously harm the player using quickness.
Confusion and retaliation both don’t counter but rather mitigate Quickness. Reflection, if duration based and Quickness being used for projectile attacks does counter Quickness.
Confusion, to my knowledge, has to be frontloaded, so it can’t be used reactionary to counter Quickness.
Stealth does somewhat counter Quickness if you’re mobile. You can attack thin air with almost all attacks, if you happen to be stealthed within that thin air…
You oversee the fact that most builds have at least one disable/knockback/stun. Save that for when you see the quickness buff on your enemy and his burst is practically nullified. Plus most of these bursty builds that center around quickness have their burstcombo using a few CDs (i.e. 100b usually uses 2-3 utilityskills) which is why these builds are really weak right after they used their burst. And by the way, the drawbacks are what makes quickness somewhat balanced, at least for someone who knows what exactly the quickness skills do.
I find stealthstoping thieves far more annoying than quickness tbh.
No, I didn’t.
Reaction time and lag will give you at least 1 second of free damaging, which Quickness turns into 2 seconds.
Current destealth lag adds another seconds
Its possible to use stability in conjunction with Quickness. Quickness nature doesn’t allow you to take the time looking through your opponents boons for stability.
Quickness lasts longer than most CC abilities
Quickness can and will be applied more than once a fight by its secondary sources (Sigil of Rage, Critical Haste)
Having no CC ready while being jumped with Quickness turns it into an “I win”-button
The only real counters to quickness are invulnerability skills, which again not all professions have access to. Even if they did it would make for quite a boring metagame.
Physical training applies to slot skills only. Yet 100% seem way too much. I’d guess physical abilities are underwhelming damagewise without it – can a warrior experienced player please comment on this
Downed damage increase is fine. The only situation I can imagine this to be really helpful is in a downed duel. Which is a rather rare occurence. Still thats something to be looked at. 50% is still too much of a percentage. It either has to be lackluster before the increase or be too powerful after the increase.
the single highest modifier of all other damage modifiers of the entire game is Merciless Hammer which increases the damage to disabled targets by 25% http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Merciless_Hammer . This like all other damage modifiers in the game is situational and most (>80%) don’t apply to all damage a player deals
Which leaves Quickness to stand out as the by far most powerful damage modifier in the game.
Burst mechanics are fun and removing mechanics outrages players. So I think Quickness should stay but be changed. The Sigil of Rage and Critical Haste need to go.
Hand Quickness out to all classes but put it into the healing slot
Reduce Quickness from +100% to +33% haste and remove its drawbacks, this would put it in line with defensive cooldowns
(NB0001) Rune of Svanir “Become a block of ice” will trigger after entering DS and receive foe damage. (Ignores %HP trigger)
(NB0002) Rune of Vampirism “You become mist” will trigger after entering DS and receive foe damage. (Ignores %HP trigger)
(NB0106) Siphones Power “Gain might” will trigger after entering DS and receive foe damage. (Ignores %HP trigger)
(NB0003) Decaying Swarm will trigger after entering DS and receive foe damage. (Ignores %HP trigger)
Can’t say. Currently I’m doing my week of abscene regarding playing computer games. Though feel free to test, interesting question for sure!
Got another bug regarding Death Shroud and Moa Bird.
If you get transformed into a Moa Bird you can’t leave Death Shroud. Easyly reproducible since it happens 100% of the time.
Spectral Armor is quite powerful. Protection, stun break and +3% Life Force per getting hit. You’ll be at full Life Force in no time.
Although I agree a 60 second cooldown, like the automatic trait version http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Last_Gasp would be more appropiate.
Life Force leech
If you have any conditions on yourself use Consume Conditions, staff 4 and dagger 1 in that order to get rid of them.
If you have any of them up use Spectral Armor and Spectral Wall offensively to gain Life Force while having protetcion up. Try to lure your enemy into crossing the Spectral Wall to apply vulnerability. Save Spectral Walk as an emergency Life Force generator and stun breaker.
If you don’t have those up avoid damage and use Spectral Wall, Axe 2 and Staff skills in that order to Leech Life force. Once you reach 90-100% Life Force switch to… Death Shroud and fire away until 80% Life Force use Life Transfer to prolong your Death Shroud. Save Doom (Death Shroud 3) for burst attacks, interrupting heal skills and interrupting finishers on downed allies. At 50% Life Force switch back to life leech.
Example fight
You are engaging an enemy with 0% Life Force and your Axe/Dagger. Use Spectral Armor and Spectral Wall offensively to gain Life Force while having protetcion up. Try to lure your enemy into crossing the Spectral Wall to apply vulnerability.
Use Axe 2 to gain 32% additional Life Force then switch to Staff and use all marks except Reaper’s Mark and Putrid Mark.
Heal yourself with Consume Conditions, unless you are on full health that is, and switch into Death Shroud. Immediately start auto attacking (autoattack turns off when switching into Death Shroud) apply Death Shroud 2 and dodge away from your enemy after the teleport.
Use Life Transfer at 80% Life Force and leave Death Shroud at 60% Life Force, remove stuns with Spectral Wall if necessary.
If CCed during the life leech phase use Spectral Walk to break it and kite or switch into Death Shroud to soak the damage regardless of how much Life Force you gathered yet. There is no reason to unneccessary lose your real health during CC.
Priorize sending conditions to your foe over attacking conventionally. Use Consume Conditions, Putrid Mark (staff 3) and Deathly Swarm (offhand dagger 1) to do so.
similar builds
One could switch out the amulet to Soldiers amulet to get more toughness at the cost of condition damage without losing the high critical chance. Still offensive but with weaker bleeds.
One could swith out the Sigil on Axe to http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Sigil_of_Superior_Earth to utilize the builds high critical chance for applying bleeds with Axe. NOTE: you need to have the staff equiped in Death Shroud or you’ll be unable to counter conditions while in Death Shroud.
One could swap Spectral Wall with Spectral Grasp for one extra knockdown.
“Keep in mind that some professions are harder to master than others. I believe Necro is the hardest, opinions may vary, but just keep this in mind. No we arent ignoring Necro, but once people start mastering DS, I’m afraid of how strong Necro will be. Give it some time for the average player to learn these things. For example early on in LOL master yi was dominant until people learned how to counter him. "
5% extra damage if Life Force is above 50% (will happen a lot)
66% chance for 1 second bleeding on critical hits
87% crit chance in Death Shroud for 5 seconds
67% crit chance
180% extra damage on crit
high condition damage
medium direct damage
1 second ground targeted fear (staff 4), 1 second singletarget fear (Death Shroud 3) and a knockdown (Flesh Golem)
2 sources of Chill (Death Shroud 2 and staff 3)
2 sources of Cripple (axe 3 and Flesh Golem)
1 source of Retaliation that scales with number of enemys (axe 3)
666 DPS Flesh Golem
2 sources of vulnerabilty (axe 1 and Spectral Wall)
3 sources of bleed (staff 2, Death Shroud 2, 66% chance for a 1 second bleed on critical hit)
Strength defense
130% of health as Life Force
You gain almost 230% out of vitality, health + 130% health as Life Force
Toughness worth is doubled since its applied to your Life Force and Health Pool
highest Life Force generation (Staff Life Force per second 1,304 on all attacks, 4 Life Force per second on Axe 2, 5% Life Force on Spectral Skill use)
3 ways of actively removing conditions (offhand dagger 1, staff 4 and Consume Conditions)
2 stun breakers (Spectral Armor and Spectral Walk)
1 passive stun breaker every 60 seconds at 50% health (Spectral Armor)
20% faster Spectral skill recharge
2 sources of protection (Spectral Armor and Spectral Wall)
5 second Death Shroud cooldown
33% chance to gain 1% Life Force on critical hits
very strong heal if used while having conditions on yourself
medium AoE regeneration from Staff 2
emergency stealth at 10% life
Weakness offense
no burst spikes, damage is rather consistent
no boon removal
Jagged Horrors can be used to rally (or did they fix that?)
Weakness defense
prone to CC in Death Shroud (although you can shift out of it and use one of your stunbreakers)
prone to conditions in Death Shroud, condition removal is on chance rather than active
Cast times are now in the tooltip. Will update this thread soon…
Tooltip data is off. There is a small pause in between attacks that belong to an attack. For example Necrotic Grasp is listed as 0,75seconds. While it actually is the cast time, the time lost in between attacks is missing. So it takes 1,3 seconds to cast and pause or until the next attack.
Also OP I think for bone minions you should be dividing the explosions damage by how often you actually can do it (cooldown+cast time of bone minions so around 20) to get more accurate picture of their dps.
You probably won’t be able to use Bone Minions twice in a sPvP fight, which is what I’m really interested in. So I’m rather calculating the damage of using it once than using it several times during a long drawn out fight.
1) Necro does NOT have blink and stun breaks don’t remove immobilize
2) I have 2500 toughness, which is 360 toughness short of whats maximally possible. The damage and Death Shroudh traits I’d have to sacrifice for that last 360 toughnes aren’t woth it.
3) Necros have Death Shroud fear, Staff fear, flesh golem knockback and warhorn daze. Only Death Shroud fear is instant and lasts merely a second, if not broken by the quickness user, lost in a blind or due to stability and you need to have 25% life force to shift into Death Shroud at all. In other words that rarely work
4) wrong again. Lich Form has a cast time and doesn’t add toughness, Plague form is instant but both aren’t available frequently enough with their 3 minute cooldown. Which leaves Death Shroud, that doesn’t increase mitigation but rather adds another life bar IF you have it available
If stated all of the above already, please read what I wrote before replying hastely like you did so far…
@Terrahero
If quickness takes a brokenly out of place weapon set (sword with slow swing speed and self root on a MOBILITY class) to the extreme then wouldn’t that blatantly state that the broken out of place weapon set needs to be fixed/buffed and the quickness needs to be nerfed/removed?
So you just would have 2 out of 3 viable mainhand weapons without Quickness?! Thats unbearable! Here, have the Necro mainhand dagger, our ONLY viable mainhand
Jokes aside, two wrongs don’t make a right and if removing Quickness would break sword thiefs, which I’m not convinced it would, there are still issues between ALL professions due to Quickness that justify changing it.
Quickness is just too powerful. 100% increase in DPS is too much.
PvP currently boils down to avoiding and when to use quickness and above all decides the outcome of PvP.
Let me get this straight. Because all you kitten spec “Glass Cannon” you want to nerf Quickness?
Spec more defensive build which any PVP er knows you have to spec for PVP NOT PVE (Glass Cannon).
DONT ruin the game because you havent learned how to counter classes. Practice. OR go back to WOW.
Those are quite big assumptions you are making. I don’t have a glass cannon build and I’m not spending much time on the forums either.
Its just like Yukishiro.8792 said above, this all or nothing, split second gameplay is what I’d expect from a firstpersonshooter not an MMO. The strategic meta game gets destroyed by Quickness, which is what makes MMO PvP more compelling than fps-gameplay.
Its not like I mind fps-gameplay but I’d play an fps if I wanted to fight other players in such a shortlived fashion. I expect longer more strategic fights out of an MMO.
If there would be tanky skills as powerful as quickness and similarly generous handed out to professions, for example those without an quickness utility skill… nah… would make it even worse.
Offense scales way better than defense. Even as a Necromancer, where vitality and toughness counts twice, I get downed in seconds by Quickness-burst-builds.
Considering that 30k HP is max as a Necromancer and Hundred Blades being able to hit for 18k, its not really surprising.
This scaling problem just becomes more apparent by builds based around Quickness and critical hits.
It would be too kind, if you actually would reply to my case instead of being polemic
As an Engineer you have a vast arsenal of CC spells other classes don’t have such a luxuary. Same goes for instant retaliation.
By the way worse than stun is immobilize, since you can’t break it convienently with instant stun breakers. Now if you combine stability, immobilize, a stun and quickness, its a done fight…
The downsides of Quickness are far outweighed by its benefits.
Thiefs can’t regenarte endurance and dodge, so what? The Thief wasn’t planing on dodging anyway, Quickness is used offensively. Pistols don’t need to be used in melee range, Daggers are always in melee range with Heart Strike and a Sword conviently CCs with Pistol Whip, in addition no sword Thief uses quickness without Devouring Venom…
Rangers can’t heal, so what? The Ranger fired up quickness to deal damage anyway…
Warriors take 50% more damage, so what? Your enemy will take 100% more damage and your healing skill will cast twice as fast…
And thats just the skill based sources of Quickness. There are the dreadful secondary sources for Quickness:
Especially the synergy between skill quickness and the sigil is sickening. During the skill based quickness the attacker doubles his chances per second to gain sigil quickness.
If Quickness were to stay as it is, it should make invulnerability, stability and evading impossible while its up.
Have you taken into consideration bleeding duration for condition damage and critical strike chance and critical strike damage for bursting type/direct damage type abilities ?
My tests were all untraited. I am about to correct the DPS for Scepter although its very tricky to calculate, since the number of conditions and the number of bleed stacks change it constantly, in addition with +20% bleed and +33% scepter condition duration the bleeds tick 8 times instead of 5. In addition condition damage can be removed before its fully applied, which happens rather frequently especially for Blood is Power, 30 seconds is an eternetiy in PvP.
Critical damage can be easyly added with the following formula:
There are far more powerful factors in this game than quickness. To refer to it as a singularly broken mechanic above all others is just inaccurate. It is dangerous, but it is meant to be as such.
Reflection/Retaliation, Cripple, Stun, Fear, Stealth for goodness stakes any class with a duration-based block ALL hard counters to quickness and its uses.
Relfection/Retaliation somewhat works but not every class is equiped with instant retaliation and reactions to Quickness have to be instant.
Cripple never saved me from Quickness, swapping to a ranged weapon makes cripple meaningless and getting into melee range isn’t really difficult for Thiefs and Warriors.
Fear is a problem, how? At least the Necromancer fear is the weakest CC in the game, durationwise. Even the stolen Thief fear is longer than Necromancer fears (1s)
Duration based blocks work, once. Quickness can be gained several times during a fight, while duration based blocks have rather long cooldowns
100% increase in dps is too much. If it would at least increase damage by 100% instead of increasing the frequency of attacks, that would leave some more time to react. Quickness is plain wrong.
I wonder how Quickness came through while other powerful boons are at reasonable 33% (which would still be powerful enough for meaningful damage) like the healing decrease from poision and the damage decrease from protection.
Its a fun build against mediocre players.
I’ve been playing Minionmancer for quite some time, even before the fix to +50% health siphon ( http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Bloodthirst ).
The problem is, you can’t kill something with it. Your damage is almost outhealed by competent players. In addition you are very prone to CC and dependant on your minions.
With the exception of Bone Minions and Blood Fiend you can’t de- and resummon damaged minions (in combat), which can lead to quite difficult situations, entering combat and having all your minions wiped. Without them you are basically defenseless since your condition removal relies on http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Fetid_Consumption .
Another problem is how dps and “effective health” scale. Once you drop below 50% health a lot of damage increasing traits kick in like: http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Executioner .
Additionally there is Quickness which increases dps by 100%, handed out generously to Thief, Warrior, Engineer and Ranger, additionally some traits and sigils can proc Quickness, which happens rather frequent. There is nothing even close to the power of Quickness in the Necromancers tool box for tanking.
In short: you can’t tank and kill without Retaliation, which you can’t really get as a Necromancer.
Would a moderator mind making this thread a sticky? I’d consider it valuable information for every Necromancer. At least there should be a sticky with links to such valuable information as this thread.
Keep in mind that some professions are harder to master than others. I believe Necro is the hardest, opinions may vary, but just keep this in mind. No we arent ignoring Necro, but once people start mastering DS, I’m afraid of how strong Necro will be. Give it some time for the average player to learn these things. For example early on in LOL master yi was dominant until people learned how to counter him.
I guess its fine to demand Necromancers using Death Shroud.
Though I wonder why Life Force generation is varying so much between Necromancer weapon skills?:
Axe #2
4 Life Force per second (assuming 100% uninterrupted useage)
Dagger #1
2,77 Life Force per second (assuming 100% uninterrupted useage)
Scepter #3
1,66 Life Force per second (assuming 3 conditions on target and 100% useage)
With the Soul Marks trait ( http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Soul_Marks ) Staff becomes the clear winner in terms of Life Force generation, since every Staff attack generates Life Force.
I’d rather see Life Force generation be normalized accross weapons, maybe with dagger being somewhat ahead, since its the most dangerous weapon to use.
If something is balanced and increased by 100% its vastly overpowered. If something is fine while increased by 100% its vastly underpowered when not increased.
Its that simple. Quickness is bad.
Quickness is too powerful to just be available to half the Professions (Thief, Warrior, Engineer, Ranger). I’m not counting Mesmer and Guardian because its only avalaible through a really long cooldown to them. While it is possible to predict and avoid the first 4 seconds of quickness (in a 1vs1), the bigger problem are the secondary sources for quickness
Especially Thieves can get a long buff of Quickness with some luck, which turns a duel into a dice roll.
I don’t consider it fun to have combat be determined by a single buff and dice rolls. Reducing Quickness to +50% attack speed seems to be the most obvious choice, although I wouldn’t mind to see it removed at all.
To clarify things, I’m talking about the buff Quickness and not about the Thiev skill: http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Quickness
Quickness is just too powerful. 100% increase in DPS is too much.
PvP currently boils down to avoiding and when to use quickness and above all decides the outcome of PvP.
