Guild Wars 2

its gonna be so sad to see this thread deleted but boy do i agree with you 100%

this needs to be stickied in all forums and included in the EULA when people install the game. the thief QQ has to stop, it’s just getting sad

it does show who are the casual players in the forums are though. . .

in any case, i’d like to see the anet devs stand up to this spamming/flooding going on in the forums(multiple sub forums). it’s bad enough that when i want to read the thief forums for useful information, i have to sort through the QQ. but i shouldn’t need to sort through it in WvW, other class forums, general, etc.

they’re spamming and flooding them because they feel that if they’re loud enough the devs will listen to them. the moderators and the devs need to punish them for ruining the forum experience for so many

Stiv.1820:

Let’s just admit it, you will be bad no matter what profession you choose.

amen and a hallelujah

Columba.9730:

maybe. we won’t know until they fix culling. they i will declare whether stealth is “fixed.”

hah! dont fool yourself kid. as soon as culling is fixed you will be right back here complaining about their burst or healing or mobility.

Sorry, but you’re just like all the other casual QQers that come and cry on the forums. Nothing changes

Kirbyprime.2645:

It would be very annoying if any nub can just pop onto PvP, grab gear then go to WvW and be fully armed but yes, I do think that a career PvP’er should be able to pop into WvW and be geared just like a career PvE’er.

But why? This game isn’t supposed to have gear progression is it? At least, that’s why 90% of you cry about ascended gear.

I should be able to roll a level 1 whatever and hop right into WvW(and doing more than 200 damage per hit with my auto attack).

I’m not saying give me exotic or legendary gear. But give me an entry level set of gear so I can customize for my specific build

ryan.3915:

Stealth is working fine, except for culling.

You’re just annoyed you can’t kill thieves easily when they should be hard to kill. Play a thief, and you’ll understand how easy it is to get killed playing thief.

my thoughts exactly. fix culling and we should be done with it. . .but we ALL know the casuals will continue to QQ about it

Shinji.2063:

Ordibble.3092:

Targeting aside, being smaller and more compact might make it harder for people to read animations in order to counter.

This, i dont think this matters much in wvw though.

not for zerging, but if you’re a solo roamer it could be helpful

JCWolf.1674:

Everyone can see thief’s do too much damage except players playing thiefs…mmm why is that?

did you not see how fast the TANK guardian took down that ranger? lol

Columba.9730:

the guy above me and my personal experience is all i need for proof. I don’t owe you anything more.

exactly. you dont have any proof to back up any of your claims. please go troll another class forum

YPC.6349:

Damage hitboxes are the same but targeting/selecting hitboxes are NOT. An Asura can “hide” behind a Char/Norn and reduce the chance being targeted, but a Char/Norn may get targeted even they are behind an Asura. Just go find Asura and Char/Norn in LA to try it out.

very true. my friend was talking about if i rolled a Norn Mesmer he could hide inside the clones on his Asura(n?) thief

small things like this have just made me start thinking about which race i pick since I WvW as much as possible

Columba.9730:

brunohstein.9038:

EvilSardine.9635:

reikken.4961:

as long as the thief doesn’t have the revealed debuff (lasts 3 seconds) and has stealth abilites off cooldown or has enough initiative to use the stealth abilities, he can stealth.

Revealed debuff doesn’t do anything because of the culling issue. He’ll remain invisible on your screen while that’s up anyways, then he can hit you with a cloak and dagger when it runs out and he’s invisible again.

That debuff doesn’t do a single thing at the moment because of the culling. In fact, they should increase it by double to compensate for culling.

This will only happen when there is a lot of players near you.

This is inaccurate as it’s been disproven several time.

where is the proof? i’ve seen videos proving its only around zergs. so ill wait for you to find your proof. dont worry, ill be right here waiting

Edeor.9720:

CreativeAnarchy.6324:

Glass cannon thieves are difficult to play because it is very easy to die.

Have you ever played a thief? I said this because, as a thief, I find really hilarious your statement. Maybe you have to pratice more with our class, because with the culling bug a glass cannon thief in WvWvW is just a god.

have YOU played the class? i’ve solo’d mobs with a necro, mesmer, elementalist, and thief so far and the thief is by far the weakest(unless fully geared out, then it is barely even. and i say barely because you really have to work to do the same sort of damage that other classes do)

purpleskies.3274:

FourTwenty.4268:

you can pretend it’s a faceroll class to make yourself feel better for losing to them, but it takes a LOT of skill to play the glass cannon backstab build. You and all the other QQers should watch the video and listen to them talk about how squishy the build is and how much finesse and how much coordination and timing you need in order to properly play this build.

I have a thief, it takes very little skill to use compared to my other classes. It is just (possibly basilisk venom), steal->C&D->Bs and drop most people, if they are a defense warrior or guard, they might not die but they don’t hurt much either so repeat C&D and Bs until they are dead. Or if I am p/d, steal->C&D->1, then caltrops, then continue to chain auto attack and C&D. Stealth if things go bad and run in a different direction, switch to short bow to cover distance if running from people. You don’t have to even have much knowledge of other classes or their abilities to win, usually just use the same strategy every time and you won.

Seriously after playing a thief, they are one of the easiest classes to use in my experience, which makes how OP they are worse.

dude, you can go through ANY CLASS in ANY MMO and say ‘its just this then this then that then one of these’ and explain a combo or rotation for every class.

you’re not clever and because you can explain a rotation doesn’t make them easy to play

i agree that i dont like pve gear in wvwvw. or at least give me a base set of gear that i can pick up when i zone into the borderland.

I want to level up via WvWvW, yet I have to PvE for the gear /firstworldproblems

Strang.8170:

Hitboxes are the same for every race.

Not what I’m asking, but keep playing!

MrMachine.7342:

The Hitboxes are the same, however i feel asuras are easier to get lost in the sea of people or even mobs… i mean its easier to spot a 10 ft char or norn than a 3 ft asura.
added with the cuteness of the asuras…its a win win.

This is what I’m curious about. I didn’t think much about it before, cause as previously said, hit boxes are the same. But then I saw Osicat running around with is mesmer and saw he was able to LoS behind a rock. It wasn’t a huge one, nor was it tiny, but a Human or Silvari couldn’t hide behind it without their nameplate showing up above it.

So it got me thinking about other ways they could get ‘lost in the sea’ of the zerg(or group or bushes/trees/etc) as you put it

Anyone exclusively run Asura as their characters for the potential LoS advantages? Is it worth it?

Anyone noticed Asura getting away a lot more than other races either due to them dropping down behind a small(er) rock or trees or whatever?

Guys, the devs have been playing this game for multiple years. You think they dont know how powerful the thief is? You think they never ran a glass cannon build for testing purposes?

Sorry, but I trust the balance decisions of the devs, who have played these classes for 2+ years as opposed to armchair gamers who have been playing it for a few months.

Keep the QQ going though, I can guarantee you the devs are laughing at the casual gamers who can’t counter a thief.

Modkip.7681:

Yeah, there have been a few balance patches since then, but you can still roll a thief and go straight derpmode and win a fair amount of the time, certainly more than anyone mashing 2 should. Sure, damage numbers are different now, but you still see some thief players that love their 2 key more than life itself and the sad/kinda funny thing is that a lot of the time they still walk away with a kill.
Point is that thief doesn’t have the highest of skill floors.

is that why here

http://www.gamebreaker.tv/video-game-shows/massive-dps/

Taugrim says

“This setup puts out MASSIVE amounts of DPS but takes a lot of skill execute properly.”

you can pretend it’s a faceroll class to make yourself feel better for losing to them, but it takes a LOT of skill to play the glass cannon backstab build. You and all the other QQers should watch the video and listen to them talk about how squishy the build is and how much finesse and how much coordination and timing you need in order to properly play this build.

maybe a faulty keyboard

Mechanix.5719:

also id like to add in the space of 3 seconds you took a ranger (sub 80) from 100%-0% hp in tank gear don’t you think that maybe thats pretty high burst considering what your running? ill just leave you with that thought

lawyered! i thought this humorous as well after i saw how quick the ranger dropped

muscarine.5136:

Well, today i got chased around the map by a guy who apparently disliked losing two duels against me, and when he eventually managed to catch me i can tell you i felt the pain, in the form of a 10k eviscerate.

Maybe i should start a qq thread in warrior forums ?

it’s been tried before. the moderators will delete your thread if you QQ for nerfs in other class forums. they let them run rampant on the thief forum though. . .

CrazyAce.3842:

Main problem is that other than the mesmer, no other class has a way to break targeting as early and often as the thief.

but they are balanced that way. . .so it’s not a problem

look, if they had heavy armor and as much base HP as a warrior and still do that kind of burst with stealth, then i agree. however it’s not like that and they are balanced with stealth in mind.

take away stealth and then be prepared for 20k+ heartseekers to make up for it

Pope.1469:

The thief is also the only class, when they fail to assassinate said target, that is able to (through stealth, multiple evades, and shadowsteps) instantly retreat, reset a fight, and try again with no repercussions. There is practically no risk for a thief in this regard.

You can pretend Thieves have unlimited initiative if you want, but that’s just not true. It costs SIX initiative for even 1 infiltrators arrow. That’s more than 50% of the your total allotted resource lol.

You can pretend we Thieves can stealth 24/7 but the more stealths/evades/shadowsteps(lol what? i guess you mean the 6 initiative arrow or maybe heartseeker) a thief uses for escape, they are unable to use for their initial burst attack

disclaimer, i do agree culling bug needs to be fixed

miringains.8653:

I made a nerfing thread about warriors. and it was deleted

funny how they delete them from other class forums, but they let people QQ, literally ALL DAY, about thieves

GG anet GG, at least you’ll have ‘proof’ that everyone hates the thief class right?

Columba.9730:

The culling bug makes stealth god mode in WvWvW. That’s why thieves are hated.

I will agree with this, delays on coming back from stealth has attributed to the hate. This should be fixed asap.

Red Falcon.8257:

People hate thieves and mesmers because they require a brain to be countered.

I agree here too, it also takes quick reflexes to not keep eating backstabs. Also a lot of people will panic/get flustered when they need to go on the offensive.

SecondtoNone.7549:

But basically, I should either go do dungeons or run with a guild that does WvWvW? And which dungeon should I run? And how do I buy this armor after doing dungeon runs? … Yeah, don’t know much about PvE stuff. I find it boring as kitten.

generally it’s pretty easy to find your server’s zerg. that’s what i do while leveling up with no guild

Turin.1024:

Anyone can pick up a thief and in a couple of hours be able to take on even the most experienced players using the weakest classes.

we know this is 100% completely false. And we know that anyone that claims something so outrageous knows absolutely nothing about the class other than ‘QQ this thief stabbed me a few times and i was too slow to react’

edit – here you go with some proof. i know you causal gamers love Taugrim. here he is, talking about the backstab build, and talking about how. . .

“This setup puts out MASSIVE amounts of DPS but takes a lot of skill execute properly”

http://www.gamebreaker.tv/video-game-shows/massive-dps/

Urrid.4593:

I couldn’t skip the “song” so I closed it. My brain is thanking me…

i came here to say exactly this lol, upload your videos to youtube with proper functionality and then ill watch the good parts

i wanna say it ends automatically when you get so far away from the mob you were in combat with

Nayru.3947:

Nothing to do with the fact that you can pay to win instead of actually playing.

you dont understand what ‘pay to win’ means

Sinergy.6374:

Anyways I’m having the most trouble with ranged. If for a second I let an uppity ranger or G/S mesmer get away from me or get the jump on me I’m usually doomed to be kited to death. On a plus note, all melee, and most ele that don’t run I have no problem with. I am still practicing my 2 vs 1. Thieves seem to be running in groups now days. I can down one no problem but am having a hard time with two thieves.

what are they doing after you blink to them?

NeryK.5301:

My 2 cents : I find thieves extremely frustrating to fight because stealth has no hard counter

and THIS is why people think they’re so OP lolol

they honestly feel there’s no way to counter the class/mechanic. it makes me laugh so hard when people say this.

pssst, you know you can kite people in the game right? you know you cant facetank everyone and mash 1, 2, 3, 4 in order to win right?

there’s dozens and dozens of tips on how to counter each and every class in the game. it’s not my fault, or the developers fault that you refuse to learn how to counter the mechanic

Atticus.7194:

then please don’t be the guy who thinks that telling everyone they need to l2p will hide the fact that there is an actual reason people are complaining about something no matter what their supposed skill level is.

“You’re prius got stuck accelerating no matter what you did? Noob l2drive and you wouldn’t have that problem!”

I agree, there is a reason people are complaining. they’re getting stomped by people that play the game better than they do and they can’t take it. they can’t face the fact that they suck at a game they spent 60+ dollars and potentially hundreds of hours of their time playing.

Go in the Warrior forums, there’s complaints that they’re OP. Go in the Elementalist forums there’s complaints that they’re OP.

Guess what? This game gives an advantage to people who know how to play their class, know how to counter their opponents, and have faster twitch skills. And it will happen no matter what class they play /thread

frans.8092:

Four months is nothing, seven and a half years of Guild Wars didn’t see that problem resolved, I wouldn’t expect a resolution to it for the next seven and a half years of Guild Wars 2

well that’s disheartening. . .

Atticus.7194:

Please don’t be that guy… don’t be the guy that tells us all we just need to l2p and that since you are apparently Jesus and have no problem killing thieves with a butter knife and turning water to wine we are all doing something wrong. No really believes you’re that amazing (especially when you just mention you CAN counter thieves on any profession at any time under any circumstances and not HOW you accomplish this) and even if you were no one likes that guy so just stop…

Like I said before thieves are hated because they can be incredibly cheesy, have too much control in combat and the margin for error in either getting killed or getting A kill to a relatively low skill thief is way WAY higher than any other class, so yea people have issue with thieves and rightfully so.

Also people don’t like that they have the best resource system, the highest burst, the easiest combos, the most oh kitten buttons and the most mobility in the game and they like to pretend they’re some sort of martyr because other players call for them to lose some of that and have to come down to earth with the rest of us.

then please dont be the guy that cries on the forums because you got beat 1v1 in the game.

Piriripak.8063:

Kinda hard for condition specs since there is no Cond/Vit/tough gear yet exept one ascended ring. Dont really imagine how its neccesary to have that much hp, toughness is still most important cos we already have quite a good base hp pool.

more hp/vitality will give you more total life force

lol what? did I just see a thread that said death blossom was OP? you casuals crack me up with your QQing all over the forums

thank you for the endless hours of entertainment, showing me just how whiny people really can be

Arkengel RaF.9672:

I personally think that the old cities were better looking and a lot more appealing than what we have now.

The grass is always greener on the other side. Whatever someone doesn’t have, they think it’s better than what they do have.

UberLander.8326:

In whatever game you play you will always get people that say they can beat any class and l2p lol for them I reply with 5 videos

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1SymCAw2pZI

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JugxS_w_aKY

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t4p7MO7mzz8

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H3mrVp1_c9g

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IovEPlAMr7g

as a bonus heres a super game breaking Ranger…
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=imPsk-Q5LqM

:)

Whats your point? that a thief can own some undergeared noobs that play on a low rank WvW server?

I guess you win that debate kid

Fred Fargone.3127:

You leave your spawn.
You have full exotics, balanced gear, (no glass cannon), you’re a squishy class.
Out of the blue you take around 100% your health in damage before you have time to say “what”, and after you’re dead from stealth finish, you finally see the attacker.
Tell me, how is that L2P issue? What were you supposed to do? Randomly dodge all the time after leaving your spawn? Hit thin air with AoE just because you’re not in your immunity zone anymore? Keep hitting 1 while moving?

If you can’t see a thief approaching you then you’re blind. It is a learn to play issue. Try opening your eyes and scouting what’s behind you as well as in front of you while you’re trying to find the zerg

Surbrus.6942:

Yes the Mystic Fountains in the JP give 5 minutes of stealth.

anyone wanna tell me what JP means so I can look this up. . .

Gord.8654:

I am not complaining because I got out played in PvP

but you are. you’re crying because you got killed in a pvp area. it doesn’t matter if they were playing for points or playing to deathmatch.

i dont think you should be zoning into WvWvW if you’re gonna react like this and call it grieving lololol

why is it grieving because they camp a spot? could it not be said that they are protecting the road and preventing any opposition from passing?

PvP and world vs world is not for you dude

I think the problem here is more about playing with people that suck at their class. . .and then the OP wants to blame the MF stat. Either that or he played with some people, asked why they die so much and they used the MF gear excuse.

Either way, forcing your playstyle on someone else is wrong. If I want to pug in all blue gear I’m gonna do it. Either dont let me join or kick me out of the group, but dont tell me what kind of gear I can and can not wear.

are they bad in 1-79 leveling too? or just end game?

I thought I saw someone mention in another thread that you can turn this off? Hrmm, maybe they were talking about the commander icon

I do agree with the OP if true, this is a HUGE disadvantage and not fair to the class at all. I’m very disappointed that something like this would go so long without getting fixed or without a moderator giving you the common courtesy to apologize for the issue and saying that they are aware of it and are or are not working on it right now

I just wanted to pop in and thank everyone who has contributed to the discussion. I’m soaking up all the information and reviewing the listed builds and seeing which one I want to try to build and and test first.

This is the type of theory-crafting/discussion about builds that keeps me playing MMOs.

Thanks again everyone!

I assume Mesmer is the best way to go about this(if not point me in the direction i should look). I’m thinking about using the Shattercat build listed in this forum for PvE, since I imagine confusion builds aren’t good in PvE(then again, maybe they are since they can attack the illusions).

I’m not really sure how to approach it. I am very new to this class, but a full blast Confusion build seems very fun to me. Can this be viable in WvW?

I’m looking for help with the gear as well as the traits/utilities/etc. So any thoughts, comments, discussions, or whatever else would be greatly appreciated.

http://www.guildhead.com/skill-calc#mcmMmc0zMMwrCmMwTCmx9MaxmsRMVsa

This is probably way too focused and easily shut down against smart players, so any suggestions on better builds is great.

What kind of gear should I be looking for this guy? Should it be more tanky Toughness/Vitality/Precision and focus crits or should it be more Toughness/Vitality/Power to pump out better raw damage?

I’m not familiar with which is better for condition builds. . .or if I should even be focusing so much in Toughness/Vitality. I assume so since it’s a confusion build(I should be able to take some hits right?). . .and I’m sure I could get by without as much vitality as long as I have uber twitch skills. But I am new to the game.

Dee Jay.2460:

I actually disagree,

Exploits and (uncommon) Bugs don’t need further exposure.

I agree here. Giving people details about how the game is exploited and how potential bugs crop up is only going to teach the community how to exploit and how to look for areas to exploit.

Standard bugs are one thing, but exploits and vital bugs should be kept internal.

Kewa.1649:

Osicat.4139:

Keybindings used by me:

WASD with A for strafe left D strafe right, I turn run with mouse.

V turn camera 180 degrees for time portals and blink behind enemy chasers

attack 12345 is
1:q
2:e
3:r
4:mouse4
5:shift+mouse4 (mouse 4 is on side of my mouse)

Utility heal 1 2 3 elite is:
heal:shift + space
u1:shift+q
u2:shift+e
u3:shift+r
elite:shift+f

Shatters is on 1 , 2, 3 and 4

This help me do most movment and camera with mouse, al actions is shortkeys.

Why don’t you just buy Razer Naga or Logitech g600? Either of them helps to avoid such complicated bindings (Though I recommend g600 as a Naga user).

whats complicated to you, is second nature to others

To all the people complaining about stealth. you know if they restrict stealth more, they’ll just bring out DPS higher(or our mobility). so you’ll just complain about one of those next

Levian.6742:

and if the dagger had any sort of AoE damage

why should a dagger, that is for single target damage, have any sort of AoE damage? lol

THIS is why the devs can not take these complaints seriously. you have not legitimate reasons to back up your wild, outlandish claims. theres /some/ aoe with the off hand dagger if you want. or switch to the staff which is all AoEs