Guild Wars 2

TBH I haven’t even unlocked herald yet, and my jallis/shiro sword/axe build is more survivable than my guardian, while dealing more damage, wearing full zerkers compared to my guard’s 33% valk set.

UA let’s me have a channeled evade that chases my target and let’s me keep dps’ing. Axe 5 let’s me bunch up enemies and mess up break bars, 4 can be used as an evade if used properly. I’ll probably swap to herald when i unlock it since its utility is tough to pass up, but the problem is not Jallis being weak. I actually prefer Jallis to Shiro tbh, but on demand quickness and superspeed is too good to give up. The Jallis toggle pairs quite nicely with unrelenting assault as well. And the dwarf elite? SO GOOD.

But, at the end of the day, getting rid of IO is just not an option, its just THAT good. Here is what I am running atm:

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vlAQNAsXinvNWNS6JrJRZlBlsryfSYV5QJYscrkFNFhd852q12FsdQgGA-TRBPwAgWfUmBYDgQKN6q+zLlgBAOA88zP/8zP31/+8vP/bpAiYYF-e

Radiance, Zeal, DH.
Greatsword / Longbow.

In a group I use PoB, PF, and SYG and FMW. When soloing I run full traps (but keep shelter) and swap my first trait for the trap CD reduction.

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vVAQJATRnsABddiNDBuCBEEhl4BrKA0AqXyFw+3C0KEkveUA-TBCBABVq+zZKBxa9RZmEPCAc2AAgrAQWKNyTHQAgDgf/NA88zP/8zP31/+8vP/bpAiYYF-e

Landing a an aoe CC, weapon swapping to GS, leap of faith into the pack, drop my symbol, drop PoB, and then use WW…. SOOOO much burst. Love it.

So I pvp on rev and DH (initially considered by many to be among the worst elite), and I’m not pro, but I can tell you which one I think is stronger…

HINT: Its not the rev.

Greek.4396:

glaphen.5230:

You mean Revenant the class with the best abilities to counter traps and barriers can easily beat traps and barriers, who would of thought. You don’t play against DH for one match, you play with 3 out of 9 other players every match.

Lol yes at times 3 out of 9 players playing DH but you know what I mean <3

What? That has not been my experience at all. IDK, I don’t pvp that much only r20, but out of all the pvp matches I played yesterday, around 12, I only encountered ONE other player besides me running DH.

I also only encountered 2 other revenants when I was on my rev, which was surprising.

Tough call for me. I honestly like DH and core guardian both. Think I’m gonna have to say rev though tbh. Hammer hits like a truck when i want to go ranged, and gives me 2 blast finishers. Also hammer 4 is amazing. I like LB on DH, but tbh lb 5 is just too slow with too long of a CD.

Melee its a pretty even split for me. I honestly find melee a tad boring on the rev, but i like the stance swapping. I like the unrelenting assault and off hand sword/shield active defenses, kinda reminds me of my mace/shield/focus combo on guard, but with the dps of GS.

Gonna have to agree with Farzo. Still playing my guardian, but my ranger got dropped like a bad habit.

Hmm. I think the animations are the same.

What race are you? On sylvari i found the animations lackluster.

Pompeia.5483:

Hmm, based on what I see on the site, the burning duration is 4s (cooldown is 3s) and the extension only puts it up to 5.75. Regardless of which one I do (only looking at moving damage for torment) there is a ~500 damage increase (comparing one swing of mace #1 to mace #2). Thus, because I have one (traited two) items that apply burning and five skills (seven counting the other two mace swings) that apply torment, I want the extra 500 damage x5 (x7) instead of x2

Sadly, yes, burning does about 10% more damage than a moving target with torment, but there are just not enough applications of it to warrant the duration increases for it.

Ah yeah that makes alot of sense. Thanks for the reply. I think condi rev looks nice, and it brings a bit more aoe than the sword rev.

Pompeia.5483:

Joxer.6024:

“I am running a condi revenant and love it. It is a bit awkward in spots but otherwise handles things well and kills quickly. I, unlike the others, will be dropping invocation once I get Harald”

Do tell…what issues and whats the build? I tried Condi with my Necro but just didn’t like the feel but am keen to give it a go on my Rev if its decent enough.

Here is the build I am using:
http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vlEQRApX8nnvNeNS6JvJRZlLlsryjSYVZSJYssrkFNFhNc64tLC0ItToTA-TxRBABGcSAke/R9HqV+18DAQSlgAcEAcW/QAgDgdrbdrbw4jP+4jPeXv7u7u7uBA-e
Only the trinkets are actually ascended for me… rest is exotics.

My issue is with ranged fights, really (or fights where melee is less than optimal because of stomps and things). Hammer just does not work for me or condi. And condi is so insanely melee oriented you run into those problems of having to sit at range and only use axe #5 and, sometimes, mace #2 and #3 (being careful not to bounce into range but let the ripple carry to the enemy). I would have been fine with a long-ranged condi given, to my knowledge there are none (besides ele, maybe?) in game. So I guess it is just tough in that aspect.

I suppose I can shift my build around a bit but, until I have the heal from Herald that lets me stay in melee, I am stuck with less-than-favorable tactics to compensate.

I have a buddy that has been running this, seems good. I would think extending burning duration might be better though, right? You already have access to traits that extend your torment duration, and squeezing in a 25% burning duration makes the duration as long as the CD of the mace field. Condi builds aren’t really my thing so I’m just curious.

So I only have been doing some world events and finishing my LS season 2 so far, but here is what I have been running, minus the trap since I don’t have it yet. Honestly it feels pretty good to me.

http://de.gw2skills.net/editor/?vVAQNApeWn8cCFdi1CBuCBEEhFGi6qYbgAArCmgRQu4X+oH-TJBHwALLDA4RA0b/hBnBAA

To the people who actually like DH, what are you running in PVE?

Well one nice thing about the offhand axe, is you can kind of use it similarly to BB on the guard to better group up enemies.

My guildie is running a mace/axe mallyx build that seems pretty neat. Don’t know how its dps shakes out, but it looks pretty cool.

May or may not be a bug, but last night i couldn’t put any of my Jalis stuff on my underwater bar.

Make your own LFG or don’t pug. My pugging experience is infinitely better now that I only make my own LFGs.

For open world I run the standard dungeon gs/mace build, drop the virtues line for honor, grab the fall or revive trait, honorable staff, and writ of persistence. Drop the mace and equip staff. Gives me good mobility and event tagging, and I still have strong dps with GS. I also sometimes get bored of GS and run sword torch, so I can use sword 2 to get around.

Cat Has Ducks.1982:

Garimeth.8725:

Asmodal.6489:

we gonna do the raids in our guild for fun and the challenge itself until we make it work with whatever classes people want to bring. It will take time until the strategy guides are out but after that with a little practice I do not see it matter much.

An even if it is something not everyone is to complete with his favorite classe then so be it.

This will be us as well.

This thread is not really about that. You can do most content with a few members being dead weight.

This thread is about whether or not Guards still bring something worth while to the group, or do we become a burden if other classes are vastly superior to us in regards to what we usually bring to a group.

Run a full necro team for all we care, but the thread is about if Guard is still a staple or bench warmer.

False dichotomy. There is room for more gradation than Meta, or non-Meta. Which is what my attempt to reframe the convo was about. At the very least there is Meta, Acceptable, and Bad. If guardian is Acceptable, then cool – not every class is always going to be one of the best so whatever. Its when that same class is pushed into the Bad category that its a problem and I personally would consider rerolling. If I wanted even more gradation in that I would extend that to “how much of the raid is a numbers thing, and how much is it a skill thing?” Because a good player on an Acceptable, can outperform a bad player on a Meta build if there is enough skill involved as the determination of success. Not everybody in this thread cares about being the BEST, we just don’t want to be the WORST.

TL; DR: To suggest that if your class isn’t the best in role makes it completely useless is simply inaccurate.

Asmodal.6489:

we gonna do the raids in our guild for fun and the challenge itself until we make it work with whatever classes people want to bring. It will take time until the strategy guides are out but after that with a little practice I do not see it matter much.

An even if it is something not everyone is to complete with his favorite classe then so be it.

This will be us as well.

Black Box.9312:

Garimeth.8725:

Let me re-phrase the convo…

I agree there doesn’t seem to be anything we will be BEST at, my question is are we TERRIBLE at everything. Only way I will switch mains is if we SUCK, simply not being the best is not that important to me if I enjoy my character.

You’ll still very much be able to play a Guardian in PvE. It won’t be terrible at everything, but you’ll just end up being an aegis bot, for the most part.

Sorry I should have specified I mean the raid, obviously we will continue to be at least as proficient in any existing content as we are now – and right now I feel like I do fine comparatively speaking.

I’m not really a number cruncher – does our DPS suck? Does our ability to tank suck? I won’t ask about healing since I know that’s gonna go to druid anyway. I guess what I am saying, is if playing guardian is actually a hindrance to my guild, I’d probably play something else – but if I’m just a mediocre choice, I’ll be fine with that and make up for it by being a proficient player.

Let me re-phrase the convo…

I agree there doesn’t seem to be anything we will be BEST at, my question is are we TERRIBLE at everything. Only way I will switch mains is if we SUCK, simply not being the best is not that important to me if I enjoy my character.

SlyDevil.3952:

TheSwede.9512:

Can’t the Druid run Salamander/Ice Drakes for tanking? Loads of Toughness, Vitality and access to Burning Burst with the Salamander, and Chill from Ice Drake for bearing down the Defiance bar.

Your tank needs to move the boss in specific directions at specific times, using the AI might not be… recommended.

TheFrighteningFrenchFry.3275:

So my question is, in reality, how much damage is a sinister engi really doing?

As far as I understand, weapon skills + grenade kit is about on par with ranger condi atm. Bomb kit is icing on the cake. And engi is one of the most affected classes by alacrity/quickness off chronomancers because of all the cooldowns it uses and shrapnel procs in grenade kite.

Additionally, the engi can be further away and is less affected by the enemy moving around. Also, I agree on the comment about the AI tanking.

Amineo.8951:

Guardian, Ele and Thief are dead for raids or people think they are useless? I’m kinda offended because these are the 3 classes I play the most…

I main guardian, and you can bet I will be in my raid. I’m just still trying to decide where I fit in the roster best – I’m leaning towards a tanky spec.

So I’m pretty interested in hearing other more experinced guard’s responses to this, my only real condi experience is as a a/t ranger. I think this looks pretty interesting.

Kudos on thinking outside the box!

So I pug fairly frequently and have never had this problem, you know why?

LFG (made by myself):
“Chill run. P1, all welcome.”
“Chill run, teaching P2”
“Chill run. P3, first time – GUIDE APPRECIATED”

Never have issues, I make the LFG and when anyone joins my party I ask in /p to make sure they read my LFG. I instantly fill, and the people in my group run the gamut from exp to not, but they are all laid back.

@French Fry, I think you may be over estimating the amount of condi damage that druids can do. I think they are a solid second choice, but i think engineers are the first for sure. That said I do agree it looks like the base comp is something like:

1 chrono
1 PS War
1 herald
1 healer (druid)
6 dps (and this would be a split of sinister/zerker builds)

I also remember reading about people saying that you need a tank for moving the boss around. If that ends up being the case I’m going to try and do that with a mace or hammer guardian – and failing that probably a rev or scrapper.

@Skoigoth, lol, conversely my guild is all returning players that have come back in the last 2 months, many of whom either have no ascended at all or only have the things they can get from laurels.

TheFrighteningFrenchFry.3275:

2 Chronomancers ( alacrity + quickness + condition removal + reflects )
2 PS warriors ( might + banners + EA )
2 Heralds ( boon duration + might + additional projectile destruction if needed + additional condition removal if needed + perma protection if needed + stability + 150 ferocity )
4 Condition damage druids ( need condition damage + Glyph of Empowerment + Frost Spirit + Sun Spirit + Spotter )

EDIT: Does smokecloud from the smokescale blind? If not this comp will lack some blinds. Also this is all based off of what we have seen. As for alternative classes we will just have to wait and see how far away from optimal you can go.

EDIT 2: For the first fight I would actually take some condition damage engis for blinds

So you don’t think a tank is necessary?

Skoigoth.9238:

I don´t want to stifle discussion here, but I don´t think we can have a reasonable meta discussion yet considering that with HoT there will probably be another round of balance changes to both core and elite specs (e.g. Herold seemed pretty OP), maybe also condition damage (Burning is too strong when compared to other conditions) and because we´ve literally only seen the first boss of the first wing so far.

If you want to recruit people for your raid group right now, I´d say make sure they are decent at playing multiple classes, have their characters geared properly and are willing to spend the time and effort to change gear, builds and class if needed.

The rest can be figured out later =)

I definitely don’t disagree with you, but it helps to be a little forward thinking. My guild is very chill, and we’ll probably just try it with whatever classes we have. I also as a rule only invite players, not classes. That said… I do have guild members asking me about what class I want them to play, or what we’ll need. Helps to be a little ahead of those questions.

Hey guys, I was reading the Meta thread, and it wasn’t really adressing this too much except a little at the end, and I wanted to make a thread about the RAID, not speedrunning dungeons, because honestly – I just don’t think dungeons are worth the theorycrafting effort, maybe fractals.

THE MAIN GOAL: is to assist people who are creating raid rosters and doing recruiting! So as an EXAMPLE here is the format I’d like us to try to stick to:

1 Condi Dealer: Preferred: CLASS Alternate: CLASS
2 Physical dealers: Preferred: CLASS, CLASS (zerker/valk)

And so on. I’d like for people to mention which other classes than your favorite you think can accomplish the roles, that way those of us who don’t have 3 condi engies in our guilds have something to think about (Ranger? Necro? Sinister Guard?).

Lastly, unless you say otherwise most people will assume that the class you mentioned is bringing a build similar to the current meta. If you are including a new build or elite spec, please explain what significant differences about it you are expecting. Let’s Theory!

Agreed, but the more you take the things that make it unique and give them to other weapons the less valuable it becomes.

I am also in the minority that I don’t mind much, hell I don’t even dodge with it that often, I just use the 3 built in evades…

Evade on the leap would be awesome, but then nobody would use GS, and GS already needs some love imo.

Honestly I am very excited about making a block/aegis trait focused mace based DH. Kind of a battle cleric or war priest style of play.

I think some of you are not valuing the rangers execute ability enough tbh. When the ele that is dropping water fields for the enemy dies, or the necro corrupting your teams boons dies, or the mesmer dropping veil for the enemy push dies, or the enemy commander dies… the value of any of those is hard to over state, especially if they die in a position that makes it hard to res them. Granted the bigger the enemy zerg the hard to do, and a single death has a diffused penalty, but in some engagements that can change a battle.

Also, Sicarius while I agree that is somewhat of a position reversal for the OP, its not like that is an bad thing. On my Guardian in a pvp match, i’m usually the stomper because i got aegis/stability, and I’m a bunker – does that make my stomp less valuable? In WvW finishing that downed player is even more important, cause otherwise any DPS used to down him was wasted effort.

Shoe: I couldn’t agree more, I run my guard in wvw as a soldier’s AH frontliner, my ranger is full zerk lead the wind LB – his only job is to kill things from far away. Side note, easier to stay upright on the ranger than the guard purely because of positioning.

Soryuju, I personally already run a few pieces of valk so I can totally see this being a thing – though in a healing rich environment maybe toughness would be a better investment?

As far as the tanking and off healing, I have two methods I am considering going:

1. Mace/shield. Run writ of persistence, focus on aegis, healing, and toughness. Prolly running a combo of sets. Could “off tank and off heal” maybe main as either one depending on stats.

2. Run the PvP style AH hammer/shout build. Gives 100% prot uptime, and if you also stack AH and writ, lots of healing. Stack some toughness to help keep aggro.

As far as condi… I mean like I said I agree that we’re not the best choice, but my question is if you don’t have enough condi toons with your rangers and engies…who else would you bring?

We must have gotten a stealth Raise Dead skill in that last patch, because Wicked necroed the kitten out of this thread!

I’m surprised that this got so much cancer. The OP has a bit of hyperbole, and I indeed question some of his assertions, but the ranger in the back of the zerg can take on some important roles, even if they aren’t glamorous. I also don’t think that comparing the PUG zerg with GvG is particularly useful. Some things I think ranger does fairly well:

1. Killing downed players. Yeah someone else probably downed them, but this lets those guys keep moving rather than being a static target, and they can down more guys. Sexy kitten? No, but still valuable.

2. Sniping important targets. Not every player is going to be able to do this, but if you can pick out the enemy pin or other important targets like backliners or the frontline mesmer dropping veil, this is pretty useful.

3. Buffs. Yeah I know some people LOL’ed at that, but honestly every person in the zerg throwing out buffs helps, cause they gets stripped, corrupted, timed out, or not spread well. Rangers can throw out some decent buffs just by randomly doing things. Can other classes do it better? Yeah of course, but its still useful.

4. Healing spring. Honestly as a frontline guardian that alts a ranger, I love this move – and I cry every time I see a ranger in a zerg not using it. Super good skill.

That said, OP the superstar thing is probably what people re-acted to. Though I definitely challenge the assertion that rifle warrior is better than ranger in a zerg, or for that matter thief, or mesmer… hell mesmer’s only value in the zerg is the utilities they bring imo. Granted, those are a game changer, but not like you want mesmers like you want eles.

TL;DR: Ranger may not be GWEN, but it carries its weight – even if the stuff it does well may not be as glamorous.

You make a fair point about ranger requiring a more static target, but I don’t know what character you’d bring for that other than them or an engi – and IDK bout you guys, but I don’t run into many engis.

As far as our class, yeah I agreee zerker will probably be the best – but again I’m just wondering what other things acan work in the raid, not necessarily optimal. In my guild for example I’ll probably tank. I hear that scrapper and rev may be better at that, but because of my raid roster, it looks like I’ll probably be the one doing it.

Levelling that engie….

The one to Rule.2593:

Thaddeus.4891:

The one to Rule.2593:

If you are going for condi builds, guardian is not great and there are other professions that can do it much better. (Mesmer/engineer/necromancer, hell even ranger.) Guradians really only get access to burn, and while it’s a powerful condi, it’s not great if it’s the ONLY one we get.

Actually Guardian is the third best condition profession in PvE right now. Engineer and Ranger are best, but most other profession are below. It’s mostly because it’s the only three profession with enough burning. Bleeding profession like warrior, mesmer, necromancer, etc. They are all behind because of how much more powerful burning is versus bleeding. But in the end, the engineer is just too powerful compare to any other profession in condition and will probably the only one worth it in raid.

As for gear. Beserker is the only safe choice. We’ll need to see what the raids will look like and what will be the composition of your group to see if other gear will be necessary or if they give us new stats and new way to get older stats.

They don’t only get access to bleeds either. I can’t speak for mesmer or ranger, but necro’s get just about every condition imaginable.

Except for burning, confusion, torment (outside a bad uptime on a handful of stacks)…. you know the high damage dealing ones. Whereas on a guard I can self stack like 9 stacks of burning easily with no condi duration, and I don’t even mess around with burn guard.

Best condi user is engi, followed by ranger – but I think sinister guard is a solid 3rd. Now whether that 3rd place is good enough to clear the new content, I have no idea.

I sometimes run the standard GS+M/T zerker build with zeal-rad-virt, but I drop virtues line (GASP!) and use honor, and drop torch for shield – since I am not using torch I run the ret trait in radiance. I run the mace trait or res trait, the aegis or empowering might trait (depends on group comp) and then writ of persistence. It gives me almost constant uptime on the mace symbol if i want it. The new shield stuff is great. I swap my utilities around alot, but what i have in the link are what i use the most. I find the build is flexible and gives me alot of sustain, support, and still good pretty good dps. Give it a try if you are looking for something a little more supporty.

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vVAQNAR5elsAhehYzQwVIQQEHxDVNAag6F3D/3WY3g89RB-T5QGwAAOCAj2fAaZAA

yeah most of our condi toons will be rangers probably. I plan on trying to tank with my guard. Of course right now i’m mostly just doing a lot of guessing, since i only have half to 75% of my roster currently. Gotta get recruiting!

I personally also thought about zealot’s. I also am wondering how sinister guard would be for those groups that do not have condi engis. Lastly, I will probably be our “tank” and also have considered clerics while using either hammer or mace/shield traited for writ of persistence. I have been running a similar build in dungeons since the change to shield 4, and find it pretty good.

I don’t have the experience on guardian that some others do, came back after a 3 year absence, but I think I am more committed to finding a way for my small guild to do the raid than I am to simply modelling our roster based off of what other people are doing, and currently I only have one engineer.

I am curious though to see what others think.