Guild Wars 2

Caran.3217:

heavyscythe.9780:

Seriously I don’t get why people are so angry about new content being released.

If this update came 3 months from now we would be celebrating but instead we are complaining. All Areanet has done is keep things fresh by giving us things to work towards.

I am a casual player with only 1 lvl 80 character and 2 alts below 30 yet I find the challenge appealing. I’m not the type of player who skips straight to end game I spend most of my time playing through each level range of the game.

Considering the number of lvl 80 players with exotic or legendary armors that already exist, this update only gives players more activities to spend time on rather than getting bored and leaving as soon as they get to 80 and get 100% map completion.

The only people who would really worry about this new tier level are those who spend a lot of time in PvP and all it does in that case is to give people a bit more variety in opponents, instead of several opponents with the exact same equipment sets.

It also makes it so you have to challenge yourself to keep up with the new tier. The reason games are fun is because they are challenging, what is the point of a game that gives you everything with little effort on your part.

A new tier level just keeps the game interesting, if you want to continue to get the legendary instead of the new tier that is fine. But if you want to keep up with the rest of the players you should work towards getting the new tier equipment.

Many (seemingly less MMORPG experienced players) have argued like you before in this thread. Many have refuted the false assumption you are repeating:

Stat Increase DOES NOT EQUAL Increase in difficulty of content!

A gear treadmill will in no way keep the game ‘interesting’, that is a massive misconception. It will only keep a certain demographic of players playing for a little more time, till the next tier grind is release.

It’s actually funny really, since stat increase can only possibly make things easier. People using the " you just want things easy" argument in favor of gear treadill really should be using the “you just want things to be too hard for me” argument

AcidicVision.5498:

Turtle Dragon.9241:

We are about to leave this extraordinary MMO that you took 5 years to create…and never come back or hear from you again.

Last night I went through this thread and just picked out a few posts (5) of people saying they felt betrayed, quit, and were never coming back. I added them to my friends list.

By 12am EST four out of those five had signed in and were wandering around in various areas I can only assume having a grand old time.

The thing about people that are fed up and leave is that most of them just do it. There is no compulsion to post some raging fit on the forums and then give your account away. Any emotional investment is gone and with it the urge to let everyone know their feelings are hurt.

Anyway, if you ever wonder why the droves of players declaring “I quit” on forums never causes a dev to shake in their boots…it’s because it’s a largely empty threat.

So rather than cry wolf in a thread hoping that it will change something, why not just play and enjoy the game and see how the content launch goes? In the end you look less silly because you never know how many people out of curiosity will want to call you on your BS and see if you stick to your convictions or were just blowing smoke.

2 possible reasons

1) They’re enjoying their last moments of GW2. You certainly aren’t locked out of the current content with ascended are you? But they will not be buying gems or getting expansions, or getting this ascended junk. If they have a free game, there’s no reason not to enjoy the free stuff they currently have. Personally, I do not fit here, since this whole thing disgusts me to the point of not even wanting to play.

2) Giving away items to guildees. This would be my reason. I’ve got a load of junk to give away now, and some of it’s tied up in large buy orders coming in from the tp, so it’ll take a while to fully get rid of.

Arkham Creed.7358:

Lord Moose.8234:

Arkham Creed.7358:

I think people, especially those arguing with me, are overlooking one detail; the whole point of infusion slots is to overcome the new Agony stat. Back in GW1 we had a similar system where in infused armor granted resistance to the Spectral Agony skill, so I fell confident in speculating that this will work in a similar fashion. A big point being brought up is the offensive and defensive infusion slots, as if this means they must be stat based. I say they don’t, and I’ll give some examples off the top of my head.

Defensive: Reduce agony duration by X, reduce agony damage by X, gain regeneration when under the effects of agony, ect.

Offensive: Deal X greater damage while under the effects of Agony, gain X crit chance while under the effects of Agony, gain might when under the effects of Agony, ect.

I’m going to go out on a limb and bet that the effects from infused gear will be conditional, dependent on being effected by the new Agony stat or at least fighting creature types that use said skill. If this is indeed the case than pretty much every argument about infusion slots equaling rune or sigil slots evaporates. Frankly it wouldn’t matter at all if every single upgrade in the game as an infusion equivalent if I’m right and those upgrades are themselves dependent on the Agony condition to trigger. And I remind you this condition is ONLY found in the new dungeon. In fact I’d say this is little different than the gear separation we already have; now we have PvE gear, sPvP gear, and endless dungeon gear.

I understand your concern but at this point we don’t have enough information to go on, so you shouldn’t just assume the worse. This community has embarrassed itself before doing that.

https://www.guildwars2.com/en/news/linsey-murdock-unveils-new-high-end-ascended-gear/?utm_source=client

The screenshot of ascended gear compared with an exotic clearly shows better stats on the ascended item even without the infusion slot being filled.

And did you miss the fact that said ascended gear doesn’t have an upgrade slot? I talked about that in my last post. Assuming these “infusions” are not standard stat upgrades and instead deal only with the Agony condition then it makes sense for their slightly higher base stats to be better. Overall you’re actually getting LOWER stats from ascended gear. That’s the theory anyway, and given the amount of information we have it’s just as valid as yours.

You’re going to have to show the math you’re using, so we can show the faults in it. Because quite literally anyone who’s run the numbers on this who can explain it is getting ~+8% regardless of the slot, same with me. This shouldn’t even be up for debate.

Arkham Creed.7358:

I think people, especially those arguing with me, are overlooking one detail; the whole point of infusion slots is to overcome the new Agony stat. Back in GW1 we had a similar system where in infused armor granted resistance to the Spectral Agony skill, so I fell confident in speculating that this will work in a similar fashion. A big point being brought up is the offensive and defensive infusion slots, as if this means they must be stat based. I say they don’t, and I’ll give some examples off the top of my head.

Defensive: Reduce agony duration by X, reduce agony damage by X, gain regeneration when under the effects of agony, ect.

Offensive: Deal X greater damage while under the effects of Agony, gain X crit chance while under the effects of Agony, gain might when under the effects of Agony, ect.

I’m going to go out on a limb and bet that the effects from infused gear will be conditional, dependent on being effected by the new Agony stat or at least fighting creature types that use said skill. If this is indeed the case than pretty much every argument about infusion slots equaling rune or sigil slots evaporates. Frankly it wouldn’t matter at all if every single upgrade in the game as an infusion equivalent if I’m right and those upgrades are themselves dependent on the Agony condition to trigger. And I remind you this condition is ONLY found in the new dungeon. In fact I’d say this is little different than the gear separation we already have; now we have PvE gear, sPvP gear, and endless dungeon gear.

I understand your concern but at this point we don’t have enough information to go on, so you shouldn’t just assume the worse. This community has embarrassed itself before doing that.

What? I think you’re missing the whole thing everyone is pissed off about. It’s about the next tier of 8+% extra stats, which will only get worse over time.

Lalabu.2097:

Lets stop all this madness of nearly 6000 posts in 2 days and hear this:
Ascended gear might well be the only new tier to be introduced by ArenaNet in Guild Wars 2, ever. The infusion slot upgrades will be the answer for new content. New mob conditions requiring new infusions… all you will need to change (not upgrade) will be these infusions, depending on the dungeon you want to be running.
The extra stats will of course be wanted by all of the players in the game, but since Exotics are so easy to attain by level 80s, Ascended will be that little mountain players have to climb to truly be end-game.

TL;DR There won’t be a gear treadmill, only a one-time climb to reach true end-game with infusions used as specific attunements for specific dungeons. Want to go back to old content? Back to old infusions it is.

No. Very obviously it is a gear treadmill. They said they added it because they heard people were frustrated that they weren’t getting legendaries or didn’t want them because they were too costly and had nothing to work towards after exotics,

Which is a pile of steaming crap, because the obvious course of action then would have been to add more skins again of varying costs like they always do.

No they’re trying to appease the MMO locusts (A VERY accurate term whoever coined that btw!). And I think they’ll be rudely confronted with the fact that it’ll turn out more people will leave then the dorks they’re trying to retain.

tetsuo.7318:

I still fail to see whats wrong with having RPG mechanics like item progression (which the game allready has by the way) in an RPG if you guys dont like RPGs why not play MOBAs or FPS or almost any other genre which diesnt have RPG mechanics?

Maybe because they specifically said there would not add ite progression and because their past actions generally supported this would hold for GW2 before a bunch of kitten decided they wanted to deliberately join a game they don’t like, whine about it, and force the devs to react to people they never made the game for? Most of the people pissed off at this DON"T play other MMOs PRECISELY for the reason you stated. Sorry for being pissed off, this is just venting at this point.

camoflaugz.5031:

Greep.6394:

Guys this is all very simple. They figure if they add a gear treadill they’ll piss off 80% of the population to retain the 20% that are going to leave if they don’t add it, and they figure only a small a very small percentage of the 80% will actually get pissed off enough to leave, so they make the most money this way . Sad thing is it’ll prolly work, even though people bought the game solely because it had no gear treadmill they’ll probably keep playing. I sure as heck am not, though.

Why would you leave? aren’t you wearing exotics? I know you didn’t get that on accident. Also I thought the new content was designed to be for both casual and hardcore.

Because if they add a gear grind to keep people occupied just 2 friggin months into the game, it doesn’t take a rocket scientist to wonder what happens when the next 2 months are over with. I got exotics because I thought that was the end of it and then I could actually have some friggin’ fun for the rest of GW2, just like GW1 with it’s lack of gear treadmill was like.

Tega.6813:

Greep.6394:

More like most people support not having psychologically damaging levels of OCD required to enjoy running a dungeon way beyond you’re done having fun with it to play more content, for no reason I might add. That’s what a gear treadmill is.

Barbie land doesnt require OCD, go try it out mate!

You nailed it on the head. Barbie land > this crap now.

Tega.6813:

Because most people support a communist idealogy in this thread.

More like most people support not having psychologically damaging levels of OCD required to enjoy running a dungeon way beyond you’re done having fun with it to play more content, for no reason I might add. That’s what a gear treadmill is.

Guys this is all very simple. They figure if they add a gear treadill they’ll piss off 80% of the population to retain the 20% that are going to leave if they don’t add it, and they figure only a small a very small percentage of the 80% will actually get pissed off enough to leave, so they make the most money this way . Sad thing is it’ll prolly work, even though people bought the game solely because it had no gear treadmill they’ll probably keep playing. I sure as heck am not, though.

sonicwylde.2906:

hmmm Is there someplace that actually lists any of the Ascended stuff? or did I miss a dev post on it? Or are people just speculating?

There’s a blog post somewhere. Long story short, it’s basically an 8% increase in stats it seems, although they’ve used magic find in the stats to deliberately confuse people who are poor at math into think it’s only 1%

Twoflower.7031:

tjockis.3798:

ohhh myyy gooood! time to get over this crying, allready? This is starting to get ridiculous. Grow up, to start with! You all whiners sound like cry-babies. Wisiting these forums makes me feel ashamed over the so called community. Be happy they add something at all – for free. Seriously you kittens.

(on a more personally opinion i look forward to this since i find it cool with new things and im not so uptight and a demanding prick)

sry if i might have some strong words, but come on… dont worry, be happy, for kitten sake!

So your argument is “I like this change, therefore anyone who disagrees is just whining and has invalid opinions!”

I think most of those people are actually just trolls. Literally. Like not oh he’s stupid, he must be a troll, but literally someone just trying to piss people off. It is incredibly easy to troll this topic if people wanted to.

This is lovely.. I get new build finally available, and now I get connection errors XD

glenyeo.6038:

I think every server has a healthy population of oceanic players. If not, please tell me the server with the least of them so I can actually have a window of opportunity to farm Cursed Shore without a zerg size of people.

That’s actually pretty easy. just look at the bottom ranking servers. There you go, servers with low amounts of oceanic players.

Copypasted from guru:

(TL;DR Pile on Yaks borderland, never go anywhere else unless a queue. Don’t bother with score)

So we were fighting well for hours when every map had a queue. Then after a few hours one map lost its queue for us SFers and splatted, then another. Then night rolled and the map looks like this:

http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/502/gw091k.jpg

Map dead in 24 hours.

So Arenanet can’t figure out how to make WvW fun for us, but we can. For the sake of everyone wanting a good and balanced match, every GoM and SF player, let’s move to exactly one borderland so we can have this match have a good competitive feel to it.

All players should move to yaks borderland, and stay there for the rest of the match (if it has a queue, I guess you can do camp runs on SF borderland, its all yaks anyways so I doubt anyone cares). It’s clear nigthcapping will reset the match each night so let’s not worry about score, let’s just try and have a fun time on one map.

Edit: @ lightsbane:

Only zergers spawn camp i.e. people who don’t read the forums :P You’re talkin to yourself hehe.

Nox Aeterna.2965:

Just no…

It is already hell to Anet to get us balanced with the 20 weapon skills , you want to make that 40?

Say good bye to any chance of ele balance in the next 2 years.

Out of combat.

Carthias.7486:

nysta.6713:

Conner.4702:

Konrad Curze.5130:

Sky.9347:

The root of this problem is thus:
WvWvW is and should be a 24/7 game mode; servers are not designed for 24/7 player loads.

wholeheartly agree with the philosophy

Sky.9347:

I think the best possible solution to this problem is threefold:
1) Eliminate NA and EU designations. (language designations would be fine)
2) Announce a finite time remaining for free transfers. (at least 2 full matches)
3) Continue focusing developer attention on bugs/exploits/hacks.

disagree
that wouldnt solve much, if anything. I think that is impossible to achieve balance just by letting the playerbase self control itself, it will never work. human nature, specially on the internet, equals egoism.

24/7 balanced servers is an utopia. it will never happen. lets come into terms with that.

my solution is simple.
abandon the idea of 24/7

1) IP Ban/ Lock NA and EU regions
2) create new Asian/SEA region
3) Announce a finite time remaining for free transfers. (at least 2 full matches)

anyone that doesnt take advantage of that free transfers to go to a region that fits him will see that chars locked.

These two while seeming similar are light years apart. One is about opening things up and the other about closing things off. The latter is counter to what Anet has been trying to do. That is create a game where it doesn’t matter where you live.

and good on them for doing so, too.

i fight as hard as any of you on your own timezone. i don’t see why my “efforts” should be considered less than “yours”. we’re all even, despite the zone shifts. and it’s kind of amusing that only one “shift” is actually complaining. everyone else in the world is okay.

Because the problem is this
Server A has 100 NA players who play from let’s say 12-8 pm
Server B has 100 NA players who play from 12-8 pm
Server A has 20 players who play from 9pm-11 am
Server B has 100 oceanic/EU players who play from 9pm-11am
The problem is that YOUR efforts are now being defended by an equal number of players in the day-time as the other server has which makes it almost impossible to deal with because thanks to your superior night numbers, guess what, you took every fort+keep+orb and everything is fortified and already defended with tons of siege weapons.

Everyone’s’ contribution in WvWvW is currently NOT equal as a result. That’s what is so hilarious about A-net’s response “well you all be good community members and make sure to spread your population out evenly ok? We’re gonna be over here making sure people are buying gems. Oh, P.S. we’re gonna leave server transfers free and open so you know, if you’re getting crushed feel free to transfer to a winning server.” absolutely NO ONE is going to say to their guild “hey guys I know we’re winning and currently enjoying tons of bonuses to our server and we’re 150k points ahead of the enemy team but let’s go ahead and transfer to that other server.”

Pretty much sums up the thread. I don’t see anyone seriously debating this.

Heh, well as damage control there is a quite easy temporary solution, that by deduction we know Anet must be capable of. I think they’ve gathered enough info to know how much it sucks by now, so having fun should be a priority. So…

12 hour WvW resets, half tower upgrade costs across the board.

Hux.8739:

You realize you don’t have to play an aspect you don’t like right?

We don’t anymore?

Btw, pictures will probably make off server hour capping a bit more enlightening. Most of our server, that is 3 people, were defending this tower with me at night. This is what it looks like

http://imageshack.us/a/img31/4522/gw082l.jpg

We did actually stall them for 5 minutes with a door-aimed cata, a guy on a arrow cart, and someone running supplies to the gate. In fact, there were so many enemies, I believe they finally dropped the gate just from pounding on it with no siege.

This is roughly how every borderland was like.

People who dismiss the idea outright just aren’t thinking it through. We still have free transfers, use them if needed. This would even out the population considerably, there would only be queue for people who “want” queues for the sake of winning, just as there is now. Agreed of course that they essentially need “guild transfers” atm.

The only downside is the unofficial oceanic server would get utterly screwed. They would have to completely disband. I’m honestly not sure if this is necessarily a bad thing at this point, though, as staying all in one server is only making their matches boring for themselves. I know for darned certain if I was australian I wouldn’t be on that server.

I’m gonna go with no… So say a zerg of 30 comes, and they drop a catapult at a tower, with say 6 defenders.

If there were points by player kills… the 6 defenders should basically just call it a day and just run away. If there were not, then they should actively try to find a way to get out there and hit that catapult. I think I find the latter more interesting.

Not to mention this has got to be the easiest possible way to grief.

Strip naked. run to legendary defenders. repeat. You might say this sounds rediculous, but I remember people actually doing this in alliance battles in GW1. Yay saccers.

@Errant, you realize Nexon owns a large share of NCsoft, the producers of Guild Wars 2, right? XD

@ Disen: I just think that’s unnecessarily complicated. It can also be abused and is not very dynamic compared to just how outnumbered you are. E.g., if the solution is an outmanned fix, this is really more what I’d want, a topic I made on guru:

http://www.guildwars2guru.com/topic/65782-outmanned-needs-a-massive-fix/

Or heck I’ll just cop/paste it:

Outmanned, for those who don’t know, is a buff that triggers when you are extremely outnumbered in WvWvW. You get some mild PvE buffs (20% Magic find, 33% karma, 33% exp) . The reward is so poor it does not even cover the loss in event wins fro being so outmanned. It even does the opposite: when people see outmanned, they log out because they just don’t see a point.

I play on Sorrow’s Furnace, and people are stopping upgrades on towers and keeps because it is becoming accepted fact that once we go to bed, when we wake up, everything will be “green” (owned by Fort Aspenwood). Literally. On borderlands, during the early morning, we’re outnumbered 30 to about 4, and even the most intelligent, experienced, players in a heavily fortified keep cannot hold anything, and cannot even take a camp.

People don’t go to WvWvW for in game monetary rewards, because even with +100% magic find, +100% karma, + 100% exp, you’re still better off doing dynamic events, more so if you’re the one footing the bill for siege weapons.

Suggestion:

Outmanned should ideally be balanced such that numbers will always be more advantageous, but that players who are outmanned should at least have a decent chance of playing defense. So I suggest outmanned give some effects to that end, and be tiered to be more accurate.

Tier 1: Server has 80% of the population of the most populous server on this map.
Buffs: Just another 5% max health, like an orb of power

Tier 2: Server has 60% of the population of the most populous server on this map.
Buffs: +10% max health, + 5% damage, Camp/Tower/keep upgrades -50% cost (in gold, same supply)

Tier 3: Server has 40% of the population of the most populous server on this map.
Buffs: +15% max health, +10% Damage, Camp/Tower/keep upgrades -75% cost, +50% damage vs NPCs, no damaged armor on death

Tier 4: Server has 25% of the population of the most populous server on this map.
Buffs: +20% max health, +25% Damage, Camp/Tower/keep upgrades free, +100% damage vs NPCs, no damaged armor on death

With this suggestion, even in the aforementioned scenario of 30 to 4, the 4 would still lose, but maybe in something a little less skewed they would have a fighting chance.

And while WvWvW is a gold sink, I think you’ll find people will spend more with the upgrade cost reductions simply because they have a chance of holding.

A proper outmanned will solve some of the current mismatches, as well as some of the horribly skewed stuff going on like unofficial oceanic servers getting screwed.

Kelthos Doombringer.9032:

Greep.6394:

Thanks for being more polite

Have you read what people have been talking about as possible solutions, though? Usually the solution is something involving outmanned, i.e., if you outnmuber your opponents, you should either get less points or they should get massive buffs.

This means that while your contribution is less while you fight sleeping opponents, they have the exact same thing when your server goes to sleep. It should balance out, correct? I.E. for any oceanic filled server vs NA, vs NA, the point system/outmanned buff system would pretty much be level.

That isn’t a fix though, because when one server wakes up, the other goes to sleep, so the points will still be going up at the same rate.

I’m a little confused here. What do you mean?

Edit: Oh I see, that’s not what we mean. We mean like if you outnumber your opponent 2:1 they should get 2+ times the points you get for doing stuff.

But as I said in previous posts, I don’t actually think scoring will change anything, it will just make people feel a bit better. We need either buffs or pitted against servers with equal opponent on at given times, and maybe some changes to how servers are composed to allow this to happen more.

Thanks for being more polite

Have you read what people have been talking about as possible solutions, though? Usually the solution is something involving outmanned, i.e., if you outnmuber your opponents, you should either get less points or they should get massive buffs.

This means that while your contribution is less while you fight sleeping opponents, they have the exact same thing when your server goes to sleep. It should balance out, correct? I.E. for any oceanic filled server vs NA, vs NA, the point system/outmanned buff system would pretty much be level.

Bleagh, quotes not showing up >.>

Brynna: First of all, it’s regrettable that you wish to insult people rather than actually talk about the problem or your view on it. Hopefully when replying to me, I will not get some tirade but an actual response.

Your situation, that of servers nightcapping you and you nightcapping them, is actually not that much of a problem. It is a design problem, though, and I can’t think that you would believe it is enjoyable for either you or your enemy to have to retake stuff and not consider upgrades worthwhile. Think about what the other players on your server are going through, instead of getting all tough internet guy and saying it sucks but deal with it.

Second, your server match is literally not what people are complaining about at all. Really. What people are complaining about is group compositions that look like this:

Night: medium/lots Day: lots vs <——- the problem
Night: little Day: lots vs
Night: little Day: lots

Not comppsitions that look like this:

Night: lots Day: little vs
Night: little Day: lots vs
Night: little Day: lots

So again this is just another example of someone just looking at one small aspect of the problem and insulting others because it doesn’t apply to them. And if you actually worked with us, perhaps we could come up with a solution that helps both situations, yours and ours, and makes WvWvW something actually fun. Obviously there exist solutions that would make your SoS battles more fun for all the servers, in fact most of these talked about are just that.

And lastly, it is literally bad enough that it is not a whine anymore. It is a simply matter of not playing anymore and possibly moving to a different game it’s too bad. I do not play WvWvW anymore except to give my guild the occasional run to pretend like I care anymore.

lollie.5816:

Greep.6394:

We’ve had how many matchups? 20?30? This is not a problem that will be solved by matchups. And in the case of SoS detailed by gorge, while the matchup is “fair”… again.. it is not fun. Having their server nightcap you and knock them out completely and then again and again ad nauseam is not the way WvW is meant to be played. And then when you get in the next bad matchup, it gets very bad.

The matching system isn’t working yet then. You can’t tell me every matchup you’ve gone against has a 24/7 population, except for your server which is empty during those hours…

Your server also might need to encourage your existing nightshift workers etc to play for the server, because people will be there, they’re just not queuing.

I’ve never played on an empty NA server during my hours, even the most quiet ones…there’s always people around.

I just can’t argue anymore. 20 matchups is more than enough to get us around our level of opponents, and yes we do face nightcappers that take the entire maps. You can either accept this or just think we;re lying, your choice.

We’ve had how many matchups? 20?30? This is not a problem that will be solved by matchups. And in the case of SoS detailed by gorge, while the matchup is “fair”… again.. it is not fun. Having their server nightcap you and knock them out completely and then again and again ad nauseam is not the way WvW is meant to be played. And then when you get in the next bad matchup, it gets very bad.

Again, you are just arguing for the sake of arguing. I don’t find this very amusing really, you have no idea what’s going on. Of course I don’t mean we take them over entirely, but if you look at what happens, we usually do take a decent chunk back almost imediately when we get back on. But generally these servers with decent sized night guilds who nightcap everything also have decent prime time populations and don’t get completely destroyed, not to mention the completely upgraded holdings from the nightcapping make it a grueling fight and make getting back everything a little difficult.

But really, if you’re going to make an argument you should be knowing these things. Arguing with half the information just makes us get into repeating arguments because you are denying what we are saying. And when we do talk, you are just imagining the worst and best cases of what we say that fit your argment. If you actually knew anything about what was going on, you’d see how frustrating it is.

This thread isn’t some battle to win. We should be working out solutions like Jon Peters is trying to do, and not even knowing the specifics doesn’t help.

lollie.5816:

The main issue is luring out the existing population onto the field, because it seems NA people won’t play unless they’re in a zerg and also currently winning.

After going to sleep once and waking up they all take fright because other people have actually played while they weren’t around, and they seem to give up.

I’m sorry lollie, but I’ve read all this thread and you don’t have the foggiest idea of what is going on at our hours, and statements like this, which is quite the opposite of what happens (we tend to get pretty annoyed and wipe the floor after a nightcap) really show you shouldn’t be talking on the subject, and you’ve made them repeatedly. Making guesses does not help, and detracts from the real arguments.

Really fixing the scoring system isn’t going to fix anything. Not even a little. The problem with WvW currently is not that it’s unfair and people that are winning shouldn’t, it’s that it’s simply not fun with the mismatches. Additionally, people just aren’t playing the way they should, and it’s all because of gold.

Take this scenario for example (I’m in Sorrow’s furnace if that somehow changes anything):

I decided to get a small party to try and ninja some stuff on a map that went entirely another color due to night capping. With only 4 people, we managed to quickittenake both a camp and even a tower before the enemy got it’s oceanic horde back on the map. The situation then got a little stupid trying to hold the tower with 4 versus about 25. We stopped all the rams via catapults at the door and meteor showers but the enemy started building a catapult.

What exactly could we do? I started suiciding on the catapult several times to ensure it wouldn’t be built but… nobody else did the same. We could;‘ve stopped them, but repair costs simply stopped the other players from helping. And it fell quickly because nobody bothered upgrading the tower to begin with since it was doomed at this hour. When the situation became clear this would only continue happening now that they know we’re on the map, I logged off for the night.

Exactly how does changing score change repair costs? Exactly how does changing score affect choosing not to upgrade? Exactly how does changing score even make any of this fun even if you fixed the other two?

I made a suggestion on guru here, that might solve some of this here:

http://www.guildwars2guru.com/topic/65782-outmanned-needs-a-massive-fix/#entry1945544

But it still just wouldn’t fix these extremely skewed battles, the 25 vs 4 ones really, without some pretty stupidly powerful buffs. I also tried another suggestion here:

http://www.guildwars2guru.com/topic/68028-servers-by-time-making-every-server-in-wvw-competitive-and-fun/#entry1978216

But I’m going to guess it is impossible to implement at this point. i reall hope someone coes up with a real solution to this because at the moment WvWvW is increasingly becoming not fun.

But the scoring system changes, while nice, will not change a thing. The only people who honestly care about score at the moment I think is titan alliance, and they’re quickly becoming a laughingstock, having actively worked to destroy WvW by getting all the night players onto one place for a little tin foil badge nobody cares about. And after that little “The elite” tirade, I doubt anyone will take them seriously from now on.