Poison Master would be far better if it would also apply Weakness for the duration of the Poison. And it would match the “Poison Master” idea, since the most poisons tend to paralyze the victim. Or even apply Cripple for the duration of the Poison. This would honestly be the only reason to gear towards this trait.
I’m really pis… unpleased right now, because this 6. trait looks like a mistake to me, one person alone would do. The next personwould notice this misery and fixes it. But there are 300 ppl over there, and atleast 30 should have looked at the traits. And noone of them realized that 6 traits you would want to use in one traitline as LB ranger are a little bit too much.
This isn’t a mistake. It forces you to choose certain trade-offs when planning your build. This allows for more variation in builds you see in the game, which is something all MMO designers strive for. Not only that, but it’s significantly easier to balance within the profession and against other professions. For example, it’s easier to estimate a balance between range increase and additional precision than it is to estimate a balance between range increase PLUS precision and something else. Along with this, it’s easier to balance against other classes if they know you are always limited to 2 of the 6 longbow skills instead of being able to grab all 6 and superpower your 1.5k range arrows.
As you may have read already, the new trait has very little impact on the longbow and 3 of the 5 other traits are highly more desireable as LB ranger.
Furthermore, the fact that this weapon misses more often than it hits looks like a bug to me and not like a design decision.
Yeah, easy easy easy to see these were all made with PVP/WVW in mind. There’s no way these incredibly underthought grandmaster traits were even considered with anything having to with PVE or dungeons. More I read information from the Devs the more I am convinced they do not want me to play a Ranger.
Skirmishing: Strider’s Defense – You have a 15% chance to block ranged attacks while in melee.
Again, Who is going to use this trait? Trappers won’t use it because they’re already investing points into making traps better, Interrupt Builds grab MoC, Berserker Rangers won’t use it because no one sane runs a bloody melee weapon with berserker gear
I assume you meant this towards WVW and PVP? Because I used to zerker melee on my Ranger all the time in PVE/Dungeons.
Yes i’m meaning towards PvP in general, because you can be successful being completely traitless in PvE in this game.
Not in Dungeons. Not to mention this pvp bullchit is effing up my PVE/Dungeon game.
As long as the dungeon isn’t arah, you’ll probably be able run the dungeon naked.
We can rant about the devs all day long but in the end they really have to answer the question if they ever have looked into the traits. That’s the 6. trait you want to use as LB ranger. They can’t be serious about that.
I’m really pis… unpleased right now, because this 6. trait looks like a mistake to me, one person alone would do. The next personwould notice this misery and fixes it. But there are 300 ppl over there, and atleast 30 should have looked at the traits. And noone of them realized that 6 traits you would want to use in one traitline as LB ranger are a little bit too much.
It’s just like they never even looked at the traits.
There are 5 (Grand)Master Traits in Marksmanship you would want to take as Bow-Ranger: Remorseless, Eagle Eye, Piercing Arrows, Spotter and Signet of the Beastmaster if you want to squeeze all damage out of the bows.
Many of them are too weak:
Eagle Eye: Why does it only apply to the LB?
Remorseless: Simply too weak to be picked over the other skills
Singet of the Beastmaster: Why do I have to use this to get the effects from my signets?
Why are they adding a 6. trait you’re supposed to use as Bow-Ranger?
Why does this not apply to the shortbow?
This got brought up in the Ranger CDI already. Seems like they haven’t read the posts mentioning this.
Berserker Rangers won’t use it because no one sane runs a bloody melee weapon with berserker gear
Actually I do it all the time, and I’m sure I’m not alone. Particularly in PvE.
But if I run into someone’s face and start meleeing them, why would they continue to range me? For that reason, I’ll never use this trait. It doesn’t make sense to me. It’d make more sense if I was ranging and being protected from range weapons, or meleeing and being protected from melee weapons, but I don’t get this combo.
Other than that, I absolutely agree. Can we have the new warrior or ele GM traits instead?
Also, this would be another RNG gamble. Do you dodge next big attack or you don’t?
Furthermore, RNG evades have been always bad. Just look at the old Jax skills (from League of Legends) and why they have changed it. It’s absolute toxic both to play with and to play against, simply because you’ll never know which of your attacks will be dodged.
I mentioned I’m talking high level pve/pvp both of those builds will get you kicked in less than 5 seconds from a group in pve, and make your teammates cry in pvp.
And? Warriors are expected to bring a zerker build and banners. Eles are expected to bring LH, FGS and Icebow. You can’t just get a weird shout-condition warrior in a “high-lvl” group. That applies to all classes. Just be glad you have a important role with your guard in organized PvE. Rangers are still waiting for a niche to fill.
Now just because you’re running with the theory of ‘well so long as they have one viable spec, the class is fine and we should move onto something else’ is certainly a valid way to look at overall game balance. It’s not something people who actually play that class are willing to accept.
I think the rest of your post has merit, Atherakhia, but I wanted to pull this out really quick.
Regarding the bolded portion, maybe people who play a class in an MMO should be willing to accept that. Maybe part of the problem with MMOs is that everyone is demanding everything be viable such that you can’t have more semblance of true competitive balance in the game.
As a Necro, I accept that I’m going to have shortcomings when roaming in WvW because I choose to roam Power with Dagger+Focus/Staff. I accept it isn’t the Condi build that I think excels more, but I’m OK with that. I’ve made it work well enough to gain a lot of enjoyment out of it.
Back when I mained Warrior for about 8 months, I rolled around Hammer/GS when everyone said Hammer was an awful weapon (can you even believe that people used to think that?). I don’t know that Warriors even had a “main” build back then because everyone seemed to think they were mostly garbage, but I made my chosen playstyle work at least for the most part. Some classes, like Mesmers, were intensely difficult to fight, but that was part of the deal.
Acceptance that there is going to be an “ideal” should be Step 1 in the Coping With An MMO program. Step 2 should be “Feel free to experiment and play how you want, but don’t forget #1 exists”.
There’s a Ranger build that’s tremendously difficult to kill that I literally never see, and I don’t understand it in the slightest.
What you simply don’t understand is that the best builds the ranger has are workarounds. They exclude the main purpose of the pet, dealing damage, to be successful. They are tanky and sustained. No build in PvP will go for raw damage simply because the damage isn’t worth investing in. The only thing you can do in PvP is outsustaining your enemy. The only builds viable in PvE are centered around the sword since the sword AA is the only skill who deals acceptable damage. So there are some builds out there who are used, but not because they’re so good but because the other skills, including the pet, are so tremendoulsy bad.
Oh yeah, definitely. The zerker-thing isn’t surprising – after all, in any raid-based MMO you squeeze as many healers and tanks out of the raid as humanly possible – but it still needs work on.
I don’t think you can truly make it so that pure direct damage isn’t the best option for PvE, but the margin should be rather small. Though right now the bigger issue is “condition stacking in general”, in regards to limited slots and confusion not working properly and chill’s lacking effect on CDs and all those things. After those are fixed, can take a look at the real balance.
Well, you could start with implementing very strong, unique buffs to the game, so you probably want to pick a support who is capable of providing those other than bringing a second dps-class. You could also make bosses hard-hitting and kiteable, so you could choose specs who provide superior control abilities.
But what does “unusable under a competitive aspect” mean?
Again to compare raid DPS in WoW, if you’re #26 of 26 DPS Specs, this doesn’t at all imply that you’re bad. Still, competitively thinking no one would bring you. But at the same time if you’re say, only 1% behind the top end, why would a dev bother to waste time on the issue.
On a different scale, this is how I see GW2 balance issues right now. Every class has plenty of them. But until we’ve solved bigger issues affecting all classes, none of these issues are large enough to warrant individual attention.
From the given post about traits, it seems that the devs are jumping into the game-wide issues, so hey, might soon see some proper movement. But right now I don’t see any individual classes’ problems be that big. And I say that as someone who would love to play a condition mesmer in PvE, conceptually. Which makes a pet-only ranger seem a very viable source of DPS, btw. :P
You can look up the Ranger CDI if you want. Me and a lot of others have often enough, with a lot of examples, stated, that the current pet is a hindrance. The reason why condition builds are pretty solid on the ranger is the fact that the condition damage gets not diminished by the pet. However the direct damage does. And it’s not 1% you lose, it’s 30%. And I still can’t understand the decision to cut the rangers’ damage in order to give the pet some damage. And it’s competitive everytime when the ranger gets compared to other classes. Do I want to put a ranger into my 5-man group or a 3rd ele? You’d probably pick the ele.
You can play everything anytime you want. You can play Riven on full AP (If you know LoL), you can do it, but it’s worthless.
Same with this statement. If it’s worthless, it’s just an empty phrase.
And I hope you are wrong because this would mean that they promoted their game with flawed facts.
But in turn, think about how many things in GW2 fit many many definitions of “play however you want”.
Yes, their slogan gets reflected in many aspects of the game. Yet the classbalance does not reflect that. The zerker-meta is too dominant. And while this meta got established by players, it’s ANet’s job to enable other builds to be as desireable as the zerker build in PvE or the tanky builds in PvP.
You know, from my perspective of having a Mesmer, an Engineer, a Necro, an Elementalist and my GF being quite happy with her Ranger, I know a few dozen things I’d fix much sooner. Especially because there’s enough game-wide issues left to fill the next year, and most of those affect class balance on all sides (so actual class balance is kinda meaningless until they’re dealt with).
So does your GF play WvW? Or PvP? Or does she do dungeons with zerker groups? I bet no. I was happy with my ranger too, until I tried to be effective in one of the named scenarios. The ranger is not completely unusable. But he’s unusable under a competitive aspect. And there’s simply no point of playing a ranger other than the fun you have with it. Because the ranger sucks on a competitive level.
I think the statement means that you can play how you want and still serve a purpose with it.
Crucial part underlined.
The whole point was that if you do something like that Manifesto, the community will keep annoying you with turning every single word on it’s head. For years.
Do you really think the devs will ever do something like that again? Every MMO dev team learns at some point to simply not engage with the community, they’re way too toxic and way too abrasive. The whole idea of this balance-forum seems to be to serve as /b/ for the forums, making the rest of it a little bit nicer.
Oh, yeah, I forgot. I’m god you know. I’m supposed to know everything.
So let’s assume they said: “Guild Wars 2 is a game where the player can truly play how they want.” What does that mean, exactly? Does it mean you can build however you want and be successful in your chosen game mode? Does it mean you can adapt any style you want on any class you want to play?
If they meant this the way you understand the statement, the statement becomes simply worthless. You can play everything anytime you want. You can play Riven on full AP (If you know LoL), you can do it, but it’s worthless.
Same with this statement. If it’s worthless, it’s just an empty phrase.
And I hope you are wrong because this would mean that they promoted their game with flawed facts.
What it means for the game is that players cannot truly “play how they want” as espoused in their Manifesto video given the established superiority of “meta” specs. Sadly, it seems that the pattern has been for Arenanet to only alter “off meta” traits and skills in their “overhaul” patches – and this pattern has problems of its own.
When I mention that a community never forgets and will always link old comments, this is what I mean. I think you have great ideas, MonMalthias, but I’ve listened to the Manifesto video 3+ times now, and I don’t hear them ever even say you can “play how you want”.
And even if they did, do you really think they meant “play how you want competitively” or “play how you want and the community will accept it”?
I think the statement means that you can play how you want and still serve a purpose with it. If you play banner warrior, you want deal high damage, but you have great grouppsupport. Yet there are too many things which are simply bad and serve no function or not good enough (like ranger pets).
What it means for the game is that players cannot truly “play how they want” as espoused in their Manifesto video given the established superiority of “meta” specs. Sadly, it seems that the pattern has been for Arenanet to only alter “off meta” traits and skills in their “overhaul” patches – and this pattern has problems of its own.
The funniest part about this video is the “non-grindy” demand at 1:28.
So GW2 is not grindy at all huh? But I wont elucidate that, it would derail too quickly.
Nothing says a broken class more than a community screaming at the devs.
No actually, that says it’s ~fine. I’m serious, check other MMO forums. The best indicator of balance is that your community is mad.
The pet isn’t fine. It’s like a car where you have removed the tyres so it can drive on rails…
Works, but nowhere perfect. During the development they thought they could hold the pet accountable for dealing damage, which it can’t. Period. Why give the pet damage the ranger was supposed to deal, if the ranger is better in dealing damage?
So does the pet deal damage at all? Yes. Can it be helpful in certain situations, such as as tank? Yes again.
But can it deal competitve damage? Not even close. And the really sad part about this is that the pet could be far more helpful if it hadn’t to deal damage.
It could provide far more utility or unique buffs/debuffs. Yet all this potential is lost because the primary goal of the pet is to deal damage. Which it can’t do effectively. Period.
The reason I say this is because the content requires far to many people are far to much coordination for normal pugs.
So your request would simply make this boss another teq which is ignored most spawn times.
How does this improve anything?
Also, The Champ train is what some people enjoy. Just because you do not does not mean there is a problem with it.
Well, I don’t think Tequatl is a failure, it’s another approach to PvE content. I think all dragon encounters should be designed that way. Yet, it oughtn’t applied to any other world bosses.
I politely request that Anet make a new Ranger CDI thread. To start the thread, Anet should summarize the previous thread (yes, all 67 pages please), including the ideas that are feasible, liked, and possible. This would help guide discussion into fruitful territory. Next, I would ask that Anet allocate an appropriate amount of staff to respond and collaborate with posters. Looking at the size of the previous thread, likely 3 staff members would be needed. This would go a great deal in making that 67 post thread not feel like a waste of time.
Anet likes: This skill gets buffed 100x more.
Anet finds out that buffing this 100x more will make it overpowered. So Anet doesn’t buff it. Community finds that it isn’t buffed and whines.
Anet just can’t win. If they talk more, people will quote them as a promise and will blame Anet for not doing their promise. So Anet tries not to talk as much, and players will still blame them for not talking much.
see what happens over the next 3-6 months before you go saying they dont listen. it takes at least that long to get all your spam implemented.
inb4 trashcan.
Meanwhile, those of us who have been here from the beginning know how this song and dance actually ends because we’ve seen it played out before. #Aquaman2012
just lower your kittening expectations.
Well, this CDI was the first thread about a serious problem in GW2, you could call it their debut. And they could’ve done better. Way better. I, for myself, will hinge my faith in ArenaNet on the outcome of this CDI.
no. world population and pvp game modes are both more important. they affect overall game health much more significantly than a single class’s balance. game modes have nothin as of yet, population imbalance is in its infancy.
That’s your opinion. For me the balance is the most obvious and important part of a game.
see what happens over the next 3-6 months before you go saying they dont listen. it takes at least that long to get all your spam implemented.
inb4 trashcan.
Meanwhile, those of us who have been here from the beginning know how this song and dance actually ends because we’ve seen it played out before. #Aquaman2012
just lower your kittening expectations.
Well, this CDI was the first thread about a serious problem in GW2, you could call it their debut. And they could’ve done better. Way better. I, for myself, will hinge my faith in ArenaNet on the outcome of this CDI.
I fear that they never get their stuff together, so this game would stay unfinished till it fades away. TBH, what kept me playing was either the achievement-hunt, which isn’t really satisfying on along term, and the story, which is also kinda meh… The balance on the other hand is awful.
I don’t blame Allie. It was just she did not have the time to discuss ideas and build a proposal for the important issues of the Ranger (like perma-stowing, pet AI, traps, no burst damage, etc), which is clearly what the Ranger CDI needed.
Of course, if we get a redo, and I sincerely hope we do, I would be overjoyed to have a dev who can more quickly discuss what is viable and liked.
She wasn’t a Dev though. She is a Community Coordinator which I can only assume is a type of PR role. Any discussion she had with us had to mostly use her to transmit dev ideas to us and vice versa. It didn’t help when she threw out things like we aren’t a burst class while not being in a position to be able to explain why we don’t have burst in a game that seems to be built around burst for power builds. Things like that only breed frustration. If we came away with more questions than answers at the end of the CDI then it failed horribly.
Things would have been a lot more constructive if the actual devs had taken a break from fawning over the Fractal CDI to talk to us as well.
This is why I think the CDI was (atleast partly) a failure. The devs screwed once with the ranger, yet they want to fix it, but they don’t want to talk directly to the people who have the most experience with the class, the players.
So Scarlet has been defeated, we’ve celebrated an awkward party, all her minions are magically gone, so why the heck are there still spore events out there?
In a cell in Vigil Keep. Haven’t you paid attention? :P
Oh, so he is. My mistake.
I know it’s fun to be snide, gosh knows I enjoy it, but if the feedback you have to offer can be truncated to “LOL WHY DON’T YOU JUST QUIT?” then please go back to the drawing board.
It was also stated later on this epilogue would take place in the Death End bar (forgot where) What did you expect?
Wrapping up of loose ends. I can think of at least five.
Mai Trin- Where is she?
Aetherblades- What happens to them?
Molten Alliance- What happens to them?
Toxic Alliance- What happens to them?
Caithe’s secret- What was it and how did Scarlet learn it? Did I miss it or is something actually going on? Come to think of it, since Scarlet’s dead, will the Aetherblade Path in TA change?
Mai Trin is in the Edge of the Mists. She appears in hologram in the central hub, presumably transmitted from the airship directly over the location.
This was really some of the most awkward moments in GW2 for me.
but the most unsatisfying thing is that they have a pretty harsh cliffhanger now with lots of unfinished storylines. Now they (hopefully) start fixing things like the balancing, but this is for me the worst possible moment to do so.
I want to rebuild Lion’s arch. Now! And I want to search for the dragon. Now!
Thanks for taking the time to share your thoughts, MonMalthias.4763! This post is exactly what we talk about when we mention formatting and concise feedback. Even though it’s a lot to take in, you do a great job of separating the ideas and making it easy to navigate.
I will be passing this on to the team to think about!
This post shows me once more how much faith I’ve lost in ArenaNet. Your post should make me happy and convince me that ArenaNet can learn from their mistakes. However, I just heard this sentence “Great post, I will pass this on to the devs” way too often to be convinced. Please Allie, prove me wrong!
meh.. its kinda allies job to liaise between the devs and the community
In a 21 day old thread it’s still fishy or really Allie is the only employe at Arena net who reads the Profession balance sub forum.
However they really can’t say much more to don’t get themselves in more trouble with promises-
Maybe they should start keeping promises so they don’t have to worry that much about spoilers…
Thanks for taking the time to share your thoughts, MonMalthias.4763! This post is exactly what we talk about when we mention formatting and concise feedback. Even though it’s a lot to take in, you do a great job of separating the ideas and making it easy to navigate.
I will be passing this on to the team to think about!
This post shows me once more how much faith I’ve lost in ArenaNet. Your post should make me happy and convince me that ArenaNet can learn from their mistakes. However, I just heard this sentence “Great post, I will pass this on to the devs” way too often to be convinced. Please Allie, prove me wrong!
meh.. its kinda allies job to liaise between the devs and the community
Wow, thats… scarry. So Allie is the only one in the company who is responsible for the thread? I don’t demand Allie to read all the posts alone, much less understanding all those. I actually expected a team to handle the thread, so no suggestion gests lost or misinterpreted. But if it’s just Allie, I have just little hopes to see good changes.
I mean, ArenaNet has the data but we, the players, have the experience. So I think, if you want to fix something broken, ask those guys who deal with it every day…
Thanks for taking the time to share your thoughts, MonMalthias.4763! This post is exactly what we talk about when we mention formatting and concise feedback. Even though it’s a lot to take in, you do a great job of separating the ideas and making it easy to navigate.
I will be passing this on to the team to think about!
This post shows me once more how much faith I’ve lost in ArenaNet. Your post should make me happy and convince me that ArenaNet can learn from their mistakes. However, I just heard this sentence “Great post, I will pass this on to the devs” way too often to be convinced. Please Allie, prove me wrong!
It’s simple – remove pet, or at least make that, we can choose to have it with us or not.
If the pet is active – split dmg, if it isnt – give back that dmg to the character.
A lot of players chose to play a ranger, because of the pet. That is one of the things a lot of MMO players enjoy: Having an animal companion follow you around. It’s cute, I get it. So removing said pet is not the solution.
And alot haven’t. Point still stands. The pet is both the only enforced aspect of the ranger class and the worst one.
What people tend to forget is that the ranger is not just the guys with the pet but an archer, a trapper, a beastmaster and a skirmisher/druid/spirit summoning thing. You could build a class around each one of those. Yet ArenaNet decided to unify them all within the ranger. The archer is is the specification who has suffered the most under this decision.
I’ve heard many friends of mine often complain, that Search and Rescue is a bit unreliable. That the pet doesn’t always help people up. Is it still unreliable?
Yes. Grawl fractal is one of the places where this skill bugs alot.
Just a note of interest.
I’m playing around with a Nature’s Voice build and I noticed something rather odd. Why does Guard have a 1 sec cast time? Really, I want to know.
I can’t make heads or tails of it, that a skill type which has always been defined by having instant cast times, doesn’t.
Not that the rest of their functionality has anything to do with shouts either.
It’s just a really weird design choice.
Can’t remember the name, but he will make an appearance telling you that it needs a 1 sec cast time or else it would be overpowered. That a shout isn’t always a shout
And he makes an appearance! But, Its getting pointless to keep arguing this against you guys. I mean, yeah, sure, it gives your pet 10 seconds of Stealth and Guard to start with, and that balancing considerations were made, (and had to be), when thinking of traits like Nature’s Voice and Shout Mastery (plus the 30% boon duration in nature magic to get nature’s voice), and I would have to say that its a pretty balanced skill because it keeps your pet alive even through boss fights, and it gives you a source of regen and swiftness if you don’t have any. Not all skills need to deal damage, and not all skills need to affect allies by default, even if they are shouts. It could benefit the Ranger a little more by default, so it would be a useful skill without needing to waste 40 trait points, but the skill isn’t terrible in its current form.
Oh wait, I forgot! you guys don’t care about all that! I could explain all day why Guard works the way it works, but, Just like the “Stealth, Cool!!!” people on the longbow, there are the “Its supposed to be instant, nothing else matters!!” people when it comes to shouts.
Dude, just let it go. None of us with your “logic” and you aren’t going to convince us with fairy tails of how “borderline OP” Guard is.
I never said it was OP, just that its fine the way it is, and that its not a terrible skill. I’ll let it go when you can give me a single reason why the skill is worthlessly underpowered, and saying that its supposed to be a insta cast shout skill isn’t good enough of a reason beyond “Shouts are supposed to be instant!”
Th reason is that all classes who have shouts can use shoutbuilds and be somewhat effective with it, except the ranger.
There’s that ‘Our skills should be the exact same as all the other professions’ argument again (Our shouts should give allies buffs, just like our great and powerful overlords the Guardian and Warrior).
Do you have any other reason that doesn’t involve invoking other professions?
I don’t have to buff other ppl to make use of shouts. I’m running a condition-shout build on my warrior as example. I don’t reach those high numbers you may be familiar with but its very funny to play. I heal myself, cure conditions and stack adrenaline when I use a shout. Furthermore, they’re on ~18 seconds cooldown.
If you’re running the ranger shouts, you get nearly no advantage at all in PvE or vs. normal mobs in general.
Chris one thing you never replied to…
Are you going to do something about the necessity of a guardian for fractals?
Even if its true you can play without, it becomes 10 times harder…
Having 2 makes a fractal 50 easier than a 20 with 0 guardians….
This is possibly the worst issue of fractal..99,9% parties will wait for a guardian to start (you can check i think).
The problem is neither the fractal nor the guardian. The problem is that the guardian is the only class who can offer all defensive buffs, most offensive buffs, reflections and conditionremove. Because of that he is the perfect addition to a head-on offensive party.
Just a note of interest.
I’m playing around with a Nature’s Voice build and I noticed something rather odd. Why does Guard have a 1 sec cast time? Really, I want to know.
I can’t make heads or tails of it, that a skill type which has always been defined by having instant cast times, doesn’t.
Not that the rest of their functionality has anything to do with shouts either.
It’s just a really weird design choice.
Can’t remember the name, but he will make an appearance telling you that it needs a 1 sec cast time or else it would be overpowered. That a shout isn’t always a shout
And he makes an appearance! But, Its getting pointless to keep arguing this against you guys. I mean, yeah, sure, it gives your pet 10 seconds of Stealth and Guard to start with, and that balancing considerations were made, (and had to be), when thinking of traits like Nature’s Voice and Shout Mastery (plus the 30% boon duration in nature magic to get nature’s voice), and I would have to say that its a pretty balanced skill because it keeps your pet alive even through boss fights, and it gives you a source of regen and swiftness if you don’t have any. Not all skills need to deal damage, and not all skills need to affect allies by default, even if they are shouts. It could benefit the Ranger a little more by default, so it would be a useful skill without needing to waste 40 trait points, but the skill isn’t terrible in its current form.
Oh wait, I forgot! you guys don’t care about all that! I could explain all day why Guard works the way it works, but, Just like the “Stealth, Cool!!!” people on the longbow, there are the “Its supposed to be instant, nothing else matters!!” people when it comes to shouts.
Dude, just let it go. None of us with your “logic” and you aren’t going to convince us with fairy tails of how “borderline OP” Guard is.
I never said it was OP, just that its fine the way it is, and that its not a terrible skill. I’ll let it go when you can give me a single reason why the skill is worthlessly underpowered, and saying that its supposed to be a insta cast shout skill isn’t good enough of a reason beyond “Shouts are supposed to be instant!”
Th reason is that all classes who have shouts can use shoutbuilds and be somewhat effective with it, except the ranger.
Just a note of interest.
I’m playing around with a Nature’s Voice build and I noticed something rather odd.
Why does Guard have a 1 sec cast time? Really, I want to know.
I can’t make heads or tails of it, that a skill type which has always been defined by having instant cast times, doesn’t.
Not that the rest of their functionality has anything to do with shouts either.
It’s just a really weird design choice.
You’re not the first one criticizing this.
I can think of atleast 3 other posts mentioning the casttime being odd. Maybe it’s getting changed in the process of buffing the ranger.
Wow, that’s some fantastic grammar.
Now I’m convinced. That was a wonderful argument.
Sorry if my grammar is not that perfect. You could rewrite it if you would feel better afterwards. He thought I want to remove the pet, which I don’t want to do. But I don’t want to be dependent on the pet dealing the damage if I could deal the damage more reliable. But thanks for your constructive criticism, helped a lot…
I want to be useful, not just reviving downed people. I want to be the “I got this” guy.
And please stop this “I don’t want to be a second …” nonsense.
I’ll stop it when people stop saying we need to be as good as X class at Y. No, what we need is for our class to work better at what it does or what it theoretically does.
I wont stop stating that the ranger has to be competitive in PvE. I wont say “Oh, ele FGS so OP, ranger needs that too” but other classes can deal way more damage, or to keep it more general, other classes are way more effective in what they do than we are able to do and that has to be changed.
Though, if you don’t want to bend over backwards when it comes to dealing a large amount of damage like that video,…the first step would be to nerf what makes us that strong (signets). The second step would be to nerf what is making the pet that strong (signets and Companion’s Might). The third step would be to finally increase the damage that weapons do, but, you’re foolish if you think that anything’s going to get more than a 10% damage increase from those nerfs.
Yeaah, you have an uptime of 6 seconds and a cooldown of 40 seconds minimum.
Also it’s just spamming sword autoattack again. Ah yeah, and Maul.
I never said it wasn’t a boring way to play. The fact that we can do that at all though, is the reason why the damage split exists between us and our pets, why our weapons deal so little damage compared to other professions, and why everyone thinks we can’t play as well as other professions. The video proves we can. Now what would you suggest we change about it so we don’t have to use 1 trick ponies just to compete with other professions?
And the suggest buff cannot come without the suggested nerfs as well.
No, this video just shows how we could do. If the pet would hit all the time, never dies, with just one enemy who isn’t moving. That’s not how this works. It will never work that way if you aren’t playing vs. dummies.
And there is a 100% chance of that buff still, coming with a nerf. We will no longer have that split focus between us and our pets, and you can definitely kiss signets goodbye. And removing pet damage will not automatically mean a 30% damage buff either, since many of our pets can’t even deal that much damage. That’s not the bad thing in this whole discussion. The bad thing through all of this hase been the refusal to accept that fact by people such as yourself.
It’s ok if they have to tone some things down. They could as example lower the damage we get through sigils and buff the damage the pet gains, so that beastmaster still stays viable.
As for the damagebuff: We would get 30% of our damage back. It takes away some versatility (no more tank pet + zerker ranger or tank ranger + zerker pet), but still, we get back the damage that has been cut off in order to justify the pet. And if I’m not mistaken, it must be around 30%.
Or, they could just buff our pets with Sigils, Runes, Potions, and food to start with.
No matter what the actual damage split is between Ranger and Pet (even if its 99%/1%), we benefit the least from the stat increases from all of these items.
For example, a Sigil of force. 5% damage increase right?….WRONG!
Ranger ::: 70% + 5% = 73.5%
Pet ::: 30% + 0% = 30%
Total = 103.5% instead of 105% damage. And if the pet is dead, our damage is even worse.
Stuff like that needs to be addressed too.
That’s an issue that has to be addressed, yes. But I don’t want to be dependent on an AI if I haven’t chosen to. That’s why I like Orca’s idea of reverting the damage to the ranger with the optional ability to shift some power back to the pet. While his post is pretty rough, I think it’s the right way to go.
I want to be useful, not just reviving downed people. I want to be the “I got this” guy.
And please stop this “I don’t want to be a second …” nonsense.
I’ll stop it when people stop saying we need to be as good as X class at Y. No, what we need is for our class to work better at what it does or what it theoretically does.
I wont stop stating that the ranger has to be competitive in PvE. I wont say “Oh, ele FGS so OP, ranger needs that too” but other classes can deal way more damage, or to keep it more general, other classes are way more effective in what they do than we are able to do and that has to be changed.
Though, if you don’t want to bend over backwards when it comes to dealing a large amount of damage like that video,…the first step would be to nerf what makes us that strong (signets). The second step would be to nerf what is making the pet that strong (signets and Companion’s Might). The third step would be to finally increase the damage that weapons do, but, you’re foolish if you think that anything’s going to get more than a 10% damage increase from those nerfs.
Yeaah, you have an uptime of 6 seconds and a cooldown of 40 seconds minimum.
Also it’s just spamming sword autoattack again. Ah yeah, and Maul.
I never said it wasn’t a boring way to play. The fact that we can do that at all though, is the reason why the damage split exists between us and our pets, why our weapons deal so little damage compared to other professions, and why everyone thinks we can’t play as well as other professions. The video proves we can. Now what would you suggest we change about it so we don’t have to use 1 trick ponies just to compete with other professions?
And the suggest buff cannot come without the suggested nerfs as well.
No, this video just shows how we could do. If the pet would hit all the time, never dies, with just one enemy who isn’t moving. That’s not how this works. It will never work that way if you aren’t playing vs. dummies.
And there is a 100% chance of that buff still, coming with a nerf. We will no longer have that split focus between us and our pets, and you can definitely kiss signets goodbye. And removing pet damage will not automatically mean a 30% damage buff either, since many of our pets can’t even deal that much damage. That’s not the bad thing in this whole discussion. The bad thing through all of this hase been the refusal to accept that fact by people such as yourself.
It’s ok if they have to tone some things down. They could as example lower the damage we get through sigils and buff the damage the pet gains, so that beastmaster still stays viable.
As for the damagebuff: We would get 30% of our damage back. It takes away some versatility (no more tank pet + zerker ranger or tank ranger + zerker pet), but still, we get back the damage that has been cut off in order to justify the pet. And if I’m not mistaken, it must be around 30%.
But to be honest, I can’t see how thw ranger sigils should be OP in PvE if the ele can hit for 8k with his LH autoattack.
I want to be useful, not just reviving downed people. I want to be the “I got this” guy.
And please stop this “I don’t want to be a second …” nonsense.
I’ll stop it when people stop saying we need to be as good as X class at Y. No, what we need is for our class to work better at what it does or what it theoretically does.
I wont stop stating that the ranger has to be competitive in PvE. I wont say “Oh, ele FGS so OP, ranger needs that too” but other classes can deal way more damage, or to keep it more general, other classes are way more effective in what they do than we are able to do and that has to be changed.
Though, if you don’t want to bend over backwards when it comes to dealing a large amount of damage like that video,…the first step would be to nerf what makes us that strong (signets). The second step would be to nerf what is making the pet that strong (signets and Companion’s Might). The third step would be to finally increase the damage that weapons do, but, you’re foolish if you think that anything’s going to get more than a 10% damage increase from those nerfs.
Yeaah, you have an uptime of 6 seconds and a cooldown of 40 seconds minimum.
Also it’s just spamming sword autoattack again. Ah yeah, and Maul.
I never said it wasn’t a boring way to play. The fact that we can do that at all though, is the reason why the damage split exists between us and our pets, why our weapons deal so little damage compared to other professions, and why everyone thinks we can’t play as well as other professions. The video proves we can. Now what would you suggest we change about it so we don’t have to use 1 trick ponies just to compete with other professions?
And the suggest buff cannot come without the suggested nerfs as well.
No, this video just shows how we could do. If the pet would hit all the time, never dies, with just one enemy who isn’t moving. That’s not how this works. It will never work that way if you aren’t playing vs. dummies.
I want to be useful, not just reviving downed people. I want to be the “I got this” guy.
And please stop this “I don’t want to be a second …” nonsense.
I’ll stop it when people stop saying we need to be as good as X class at Y. No, what we need is for our class to work better at what it does or what it theoretically does.
I wont stop stating that the ranger has to be competitive in PvE. I wont say “Oh, ele FGS so OP, ranger needs that too” but other classes can deal way more damage, or to keep it more general, other classes are way more effective in what they do than we are able to do and that has to be changed.
Though, if you don’t want to bend over backwards when it comes to dealing a large amount of damage like that video,…the first step would be to nerf what makes us that strong (signets). The second step would be to nerf what is making the pet that strong (signets and Companion’s Might). The third step would be to finally increase the damage that weapons do, but, you’re foolish if you think that anything’s going to get more than a 10% damage increase from those nerfs.
Yeaah, you have an uptime of 6 seconds and a cooldown of 40 seconds minimum.
Also it’s just spamming sword autoattack again. Ah yeah, and Maul.
I want to be useful, not just reviving downed people. I want to be the “I got this” guy.
And please stop this “I don’t want to be a second …” nonsense.
I’ll stop it when people stop saying we need to be as good as X class at Y. No, what we need is for our class to work better at what it does or what it theoretically does.
I wont stop stating that the ranger has to be competitive in PvE. I wont say “Oh, ele FGS so OP, ranger needs that too” but other classes can deal way more damage, or to keep it more general, other classes are way more effective in what they do than we are able to do and that has to be changed.
This game is not all about dungeons. Heck, PvE is not even all about dungeons.
Dungeons are a part of PvE and not a minor one. And if you would open your LFG-Tool just one time you would quickly realize that the ranger is no competitor for the current meta-classes.
It’s not the desire as much as the direction. What would I lose if I deal more damage? What is wrong with wanting to be able to stand up with a warrior and deal the same kind of damage? Nothing, and everything.
Ranger needs to be a ranger. If we’re supposed to be stable and sustainable damage as opposed to dropping spikes like raindrops, then let’s be that and be better at it. Start by looking at our weapons and fixing where the damage isn’t getting there (Rapid Fire, most notably), fix the pet so it’s more useful than it is now, and give us some utility where we can have some use other than “pew pew, Imma DPS ya”.
This game doesn’t have to be just about your DPS figure or Boon Dispensing capability to mean you’re of use to a group.
But what defines the ranger? Is it the pet? The AI is broken and it will stay broken. I don’t want want to rely on something broken. The pet can tank for me and it can offer additional stuff, but I don’t want to be limited by the pet. Removing the mandatory damagecomponent from the pet will be a first huge step in the right direction.
Basically this: Awesome Suggestion
If they have done something in this direction, we could look at the weapons again if they would still be bad or not.
I want to be a ranger. And I want rangers to be desired or at least a valuable asset on their own, not because they’re almost as good at something as another class.
Yes, I know I’m repeating myself because this keeps being brought up in this conversation. Make the ranger better at what it does, or make what it does well work better.
So what does the ranger offer? 2 Neglectible buffs for your team? A pet who can tank a boss? Incredilbe sustain/kite ability? Hell all that doesn’t matter in dungeons. I want to be useful, not just reviving downed people. I want to be the “I got this” guy.
And please stop this “I don’t want to be a second …” nonsense. Why shouldn’t be there a second class who can stack protection? Why shouldn’t be there another class sharing mass conditionremove and other defensive boons? Noone said “Oh lets just copy the guard/war/thief one-to-one, so the ranger gets useful again”.
Why should I be competing in damage when I still get XP/loot/Event credit so long as I push over a threshold? I don’t need to outpower the warrior or thief, or outperform the guardian, elementalist, or engineer. I only need to do what I do well enough to not die. Bonus points if I can spend time picking up people off the ground so they can go back to being glass cannons, and still not die.
Maybe you are ok with the current state of the ranger but I’m not. I want to be as effective as other classes are. To put it simple: What would you lose if you would deal more damage? Wouldn’t you be able to revive other people? Wouldn’t your pet be able of tanking enemies? What is wrong about the desire to be at least as good as other classes?
