Guild Wars 2

Silavor.6257:

Dragons being awake or asleep has no standing on how their minions act.

In EotN both Drakkar and the Great Destroyer continued to do their masters’ work, even though Primordus and Jormag wouldn’t wake up for another 50-100 years.

If the Pale Tree is a dragon champion, why is it capable of choosing to be “good,” tablet or no tablet? How are Malyck and Malyck’s tree capable of choosing to be “good”? Glint couldn’t. Glint had free thought, but not free will, until the Forgotten specifically removed Kralkatorrik’s influence on her. If Ventari wrote down some words on a tablet and left them with pre-cleansed Glint, they wouldn’t have had any effect. She still would have been an instrument of Kralkatorrik’s will. They’re just words. How exactly are a bunch of words carved on a stone altering the dream, or changing the way a supposed minion acts?

And you’re still not really answering the question: why would Mordremoth create non-minion ‘minions’ in the first place, only to corrupt them later? What is the point? What does it accomplish? Why is it better than creating ACTUAL minions, bound to you right from birth and a part of your collective hive mind?

Primordus has spawned numerous humanoid beings, for what it’s worth. All of them are just as loyal to their master as the non-humanoids.

There could be two reasons:
1) Mordremoth wants the Sylvari to spread out, unaware of their origin to have a greater impact once he awakens and takes control.
2) The Pale Tree has grown unintentionally. the Trees aren’t meant to grow until Mordremoth is awake to take control of the Dream.
The relationship between the Tree and Mordremoth is like a Father teaching his unknowing child what’s wrong and what’s right. But Mordremoth was asleep and so, the Tree had to find another source of knowledge and he found it: Ventari’s Tablet.

Either way: The Tree oughtn’t find Ventari’s Tablet. Ventari’s teachings have influenced the Tree and the Dream in a way Mordremoth hasn’t inteded.

The Nightmare was the intended way to go. Sylvari can’t set themselves free from the Nightmare and it drives them to attack other races and Sylvari who haven’t fallen for the Nightmare yet.

Silavor.6257:

HHR LostProphet.4801:

Silavor.6257:

Your theory doesn’t make any sense. You’re saying the Pale Tree is a dragon champion and the sylvari are dragon minions, but they aren’t actually corrupted yet until they fall to Nightmare. That… makes absolutely no sense. Either they’re minions or they’re not.

That would be like a Destroyer spawning pool creating free-thinking rock monsters that then have to be forcefully subdued and twisted into a real Destroyer.

Mordremoth spawns his seeds to create an army. He gave them his resistances and the tools to be corrupted. They aren’t corrupted in the first place but it would be very easy for him to corrupt them through the Dream. Why should that not make sence? Are the elder dragons not allowed to create their own minions? Do they have to be corrupted, once free beings?

Of course elder dragons can create their own minions, that’s why I mentioned Primordus and the Destroyers in the first place.
My point is that you’re saying Mordremoth creates the sylvari as free-thinking beings, THEN corrupts them. That is what does not make sense. Why is a dragon purposely creating non-minion ‘minions’ only to corrupt them and turn them into real minions later? That’s not how ANY of the other dragons work. At all.

Primordus is awake, Mordremoth is not. As I have suggested earlier, the Dream is being influenced by the Pale Tree, which used Ventari’s teachings as guideline for the new race. That’s the reason why the Dream is “good”. However, the Nightmare has also a source. The source of the “light” side is Ventari’s Tablet, the source of the “dark” side is… Well, it could be Mordremoth. Furthermore, the Sylvari are created to be like humans; and humans have a free will. If Primordus would spawn humanoid beings and not actively control them, they could have a free will aswell.

Horst Hortensie.5420:

We don’t know what the Nightmare really is. We haven’t tested to free a Sylvari from the Nightmare. You can’t just say it’s impossible just because some say it’s impossible.
Noone believed humans could be on the moon until we’ve sent people to the moon.
Just because noone has successfully freed a Sylvari from the Nightmare yet, doesn’t mean it’s impossible. And still, it fits into the corruption theme. They are just corrupted, their “backdoor” is opened. Mordremoth has just not taken control over the nightmare because he was asleep.

Silavor.6257:

Your theory doesn’t make any sense. You’re saying the Pale Tree is a dragon champion and the sylvari are dragon minions, but they aren’t actually corrupted yet until they fall to Nightmare. That… makes absolutely no sense. Either they’re minions or they’re not.

That would be like a Destroyer spawning pool creating free-thinking rock monsters that then have to be forcefully subdued and twisted into a real Destroyer.

Mordremoth spawns his seeds to create an army. He gave them his resistances and the tools to be corrupted. They aren’t corrupted in the first place but it would be very easy for him to corrupt them through the Dream. Why should that not make sence? Are the elder dragons not allowed to create their own minions? Do they have to be corrupted, once free beings?

Mist.6217:

1. Are you kidding? The Sylvari are plants, Mordremoth is a plant dragon.
2. http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Fighting_the_Nightmare
3. Please read the post from Tamias again. There are two different sets of dragonminions fighting each other and there are no hybrids.
4. The seeds must have a strong magical origin. They are not natural and they are not the source of the Dream, which is a part of all Sylvari.
   Emotions can’t corrupt you. The Nightmare can. It is using the negative emotions but the emotions are not the origin of the Nightmare.
5. Same as above.
6. The Nightmare Court has fallen for the Nightmare. They can’t escape, even if the would want to. They are both influenced and influencing the Nightmare, and through that, the Dream. All other Sylvari are influenced by the Dream same as they are influenced through emotions.
7. And the Sylvari are too since they are connected to the Dream and they can’t chose to be not connected withit until they “unplug” themselves.
8. Or he is jst not connected with the Dream of the other Tree.
   The Dream isn’t established by the Tree, the Dream has to have a greater source. This source has to be more powerful than the Tree to maintain the Dream and keep the connection to all Sylvari.

[/quote]

Horst Hortensie.5420:

1)

• Sylvari = Wood People, Mordremoth = Wood Dragon Sounds like you put every tree and flower into the list of his minions, does this also work for underwater plants?

To be precise: The Sylvari are the fruit of a seed of unknown source. The only thing we can say is that this source is most likely not natural. And do we know a unnatural plant-like creature? Oh yes, as far as I can remember, we know a dragon matching all those criteria.

Horst Hortensie.5420:

2)

• In the Sylvari story prologue, you have to fight the nightmare, in the form of a dragon on the argue that the dream is controlled from even that dragon why should he contract you to kill himself?

The Dream is a tool to corrupt the Sylvari, it is not the corruption itself. The Pale Tree on the other hand wants to retain the Dream in it’s current form, so it’s sending us out to protect the Dream.

Horst Hortensie.5420:

3)

• Sylvari can’t be corrupted. So they are either immune or already a dragonminion They die to corruption. It’s different.

They don’t die to corruption, they die because they’re killed. They can’t be corrupted afterwards. There are no undead Sylvari because once they’re dead, they stay dead.
And even if they die to corruption, that deosn’t prove my point being invalid.

Horst Hortensie.5420:

4)

• The Dream is like the Matrix: All Sylvari are connected to it but noone knows the source or the reason for existence of the Dream The pale tree is the vein between ventari’s tablet and the sleeping new sylvari. The dream is the first thing you experience and it’s not natural for sylvari. side notice: the dream of dreams might be the description for the entity behind

I don’t really know what you want to tell me with that so I can’t respond to that.

Horst Hortensie.5420:

5)

• The Pale Tree has no natural source: We don’t know where the seeds are comming from but it has to be a strong (magical) source to being able to create a whole new species Is there anything known about dragons create races with society structures?

The Pale Tree is just creating the Sylvari and protecting and influencing the Dream.
Ventari’s Tablet is the reason of the society structure the Sylvari have.

Horst Hortensie.5420:

6)

• The Nightmare behaves like the corruption does: Once you’ve fallen to the Nightmare, you can’t escape Corruption could be cured, nightmare has no cure.

We’ve never tried it so we can’t say for sure, can we? The corruption can be cured only with the ritual used in Arah P3. We have to test it with the Nightmare Court, so we could say if it is a dragonmade corruption.

Horst Hortensie.5420:

7)

• The Nightmare is a part of the Dream, so it’s most likely that the Nightmare was it’s actual appointment. To clearify: The reason for the Pale Tree to fight the Dragons it has sensed is Ventari’s Tablet. If Ventari’s teachings are the reason for the Dream behaving like it does right now, what is the reason for the Nightmare to exist? Nightmare is no dragon corruption, it’s shield cracking.

Either way, once a Sylvari has fallen to the Nightmare, it can’t be saved. And if the dragon can now take control over the Nightmare, those Sylvari would turn to the dragonminions we all know already from other dragons.

Horst Hortensie.5420:

8)

• The Dream is neither established nor controlled by the Pale Tree; something more powerful has to be the source. And what is more powerful than the hive? The master of the hive. Probably an elder dragon named Mordremoth. look #4

The “souls” of the Sylvari are created within the Dream. So whoever has control over the Dream has control over the Sylvari.

Horst Hortensie.5420:

9)

• Simply the evolution: The Dream isn’t necessary for the Sylvari to survive. So why does it exist?
  And why are all Sylvari connected to the Dream by default? Probably to control them. Your answer matches.

Nothing to add here.

Horst Hortensie.5420:

10)

• Why would Scarlet wake the elder dragons? The only reason is that Ceara was commanded to wake the dragon. Ceara = Scarlet Briar and she decided it herself to wake the dragon if it’s part of her plan.

I know that Ceara and Scarlet are the same person. However something broke her mind and this “thing” was already inside her. So if Mordremoth created the Sylvari, he probably has a “backdoor”. Yet this backdoor is normally closed. And let me ask this: Who would benefit from the awakineng of an elder dragon? Probably just the elder dragon itself.

Horst Hortensie.5420:

Direksone.3867:

Ah alright. Yea I can see why you’re speculating who this entity is, but it probably is Mordremoth as that would be the most obvious and ANet is not known for very strong story thusfar with this game. It’s probably not as deep as people want it to be.

Might be the major reason people doing speculations, because everything is clear. No it’s not!

Death-picture-entity (dpe) might have influenced her with speaking to her, but the Pale Tree did either. She wanted to set both against each other (which probably wasn’t the case or balanced).

If we define dpe as Mordremoth, then she didn’t work for him and if you want to set two enemies against each other without having too much trouble, then you care for equal power (easier for yourself if you are against both).

Mord is the most obvious, because he is put into your sight like E while having a vote between E(llen Kiel) and E(von Gnashblade). I try to figure out the function of the dragons between 3 possibilities, but still need some informations.

I stay at my position saying a) Mordremoth maybe was in her mind, but didn’t corrupt her b) the Pale Tree lies intentionally (might be a good reason, but he lies) and c) she was her own master (and there are not many in Tyria). Everything gets a little bit reduced with the point that all in Tyria are heavily underpowered (even ED) and need support to get things changed. She worked together with some groups and maybe there is a leader, but even this one is underpowered in regards towards the other two fighting sides.

The story is great, but the representation makes problem and a lot things that are theoretical written, but probably not implemented.

Well, Scarlet did awake a dragon and she knew she was going to wake one. So the question has to be asked: Who would benefit from the awakening of a dragon?
The only possible answer I know is that the dragon (probably Mordremoth) was the one who forced her to disturb the Ley Lines. I don’t think the Pale Tree was lying simply because that wouldn’t fit into the (not thrilling) storywriting of ANet.

Mist.6217:

Responded to the ones I knew in Bold and considering I am not as knowledgeable as some here in the Lore Forum, your points don’t hold in a debate on the issues. Now some of what I wrote could be wrong but it is based on what I have read and seen of the lore.

1. Other words for the same meaning.
2. It was the Nightmare who compromised the Dream and the Nightmare has chosen to appear in the form of a dragon. You are right that it’s the sign for our character to fight the dragons but that doesn’t imply that it’s not Mordremoth’s influence who is controlling the Nightmare.
3. As Tamias already pointed out: Under normal circumstances no being will be corrupted twice.
4. —
5. —
6. That’s why I’ve said multiple times now that we should take an obsessed Sylvari to the altar to test it. However, in my mind, the Sylvari are created by the Pale Tree, who is created by the dragon. So, the Sylvari are dragonminions. The Dream is a tool to corrupt and control the Sylvari and the Nightmare is the corruption.
7. The Nightmare Court is using those “bad” feelings to drive Sylvari into the Nightmare, yet it is not the origin of the Nightmare. If a Sylvari has once fallen for the Nightmare he can’t escape. That’s not how emotions work.
8. The Sylvari can’t re-access the Dream and they aren’t meant to do so. However, all the things they’ve experienced are getting “uploaded”. They don’t have any control over the information shared with the Dream. Their only way to cut this connection is to “unplug” themselves, which requires alot of fortitude. They aren’t meant to leave the Dream and they aren’t meant to control the Dream, yet they can be influenced through the Dream. A perfect tool to control someones actions, don’t you think so?
9. Havrouns are blessed by the spirits to accommodate the wishes of the spirits. So why are Sylvari “blessed” with their forced connection to the Dream?
10. Malyck is from another Tree and it is very little known about him. Also, there are many inconsistencies with his person, such as, why he looks like any other Sylvari if it’s stated that the Pale Tree created the Sylvari by the design of humans.

Oidmetala.8426:

i dont like the idea much about make the spirits to a pet aura.
sometimes they are not bad to bodyblock some projectiles!

Not only that: What if your pet is melee attacking a mob while you’re sitting on your LB?
You would probably be out of range to get the buff. What if your pet dies and you have to switch it?
They wouldn’t be spirits anymore, they just would be some sort of status effect.

I wonder why ANet doesn’t change the way armors and weapons are crafted.
Let’s say there is one ingerdient for each stat and the normal statcombo is 3-2-2 (major-minor1-minor2). That would be 7 ingerdients you need for one armor or weapon. Now you could just change up the mixing (like 6-1 instead of 3-2-2). The only requirement is that you need exactly 7 ingredients. As example, celestial gear would be 1-1-1-1-1-1-1.

Tamias.7059:

Question: how do you think this theory, about sylvari being dragon minions came about? Why do you think so many people believe it.

Why do I think that Sylvari are dragonminions?

1. Sylvari = Wood People, Mordremoth = Wood Dragon
2. In the Sylvari story prologue, you have to fight the nightmare, in the form of a dragon
3. Sylvari can’t be corrupted. So they are either immune or already a dragonminion
4. The Dream is like the Matrix: All Sylvari are connected to it but noone knows the source or the reason for existence of the Dream
5. The Pale Tree has no natural source: We don’t know where the seeds are comming from but it has to be a strong (magical) source to being able to create a whole new species
6. The Nightmare behaves like the corruption does: Once you’ve fallen to the Nightmare, you can’t escape
7. The Nightmare is a part of the Dream, so it’s most likely that the Nightmare was it’s actual appointment. To clearify: The reason for the Pale Tree to fight the Dragons it has sensed is Ventari’s Tablet. If Ventari’s teachings are the reason for the Dream behaving like it does right now, what is the reason for the Nightmare to exist?
8. The Dream is neither established nor controlled by the Pale Tree; something more powerful has to be the source. And what is more powerful than the hive? The master of the hive. Probably an elder dragon named Mordremoth.
9. Simply the evolution: The Dream isn’t necessary for the Sylvari to survive. So why does it exist?
   And why are all Sylvari connected to the Dream by default? Probably to control them.
10. Why would Scarlet wake the elder dragons? The only reason is that Ceara was commanded to wake the dragon.

Konig Des Todes.2086:

When we perform this ritual, Illyra stands directly next to the Risen Chicken used as a guinea pig. There is a noticeable change in the chicken as denoted by Illyra, but Illyra’s personality is fully unchanged.

She isn’t part of the Nightmare Court, so your argumentation is obsolete.

Konig Des Todes.2086:

Nothing proves sylvari are minions of Mordremoth. Stop saying it is a fact when it is not.

And if he were the source of sylvari, then awake or asleep his minions would have remained loyal and fanatic for him, just like others (e.g., the Great Destroyer and Drakkar).

Ît’s not a fact but there are many points which count for this theory and, as far as I know, none against it.
And who said that dragonminions are fanatic for their master? They are mindcontrolled. Mordremoth is asleep, so he is unable to control anyone and the Sylvari are unaware of their origin.

Wanderer.3248:

It still makes no sense for the Nightmare court to have been founded to fight the Dragons (Caderyn’s own words) if they were dragon minions.

And, as others have pointed out, Dragons don’t just corrupt one species. Jormag doesn’t just corrupt Norn, he also corrupts elementals and Quaggan. Why would they nightmare be specific to Sylvari if it was dragon corruption?

Because the Sylvari are the minions of Mordremoth. He could be the source of the mysterious seeds the Pale Tree has grown out of. Furthermore, Mordermoth was asleep the whole time, so he wasn’t able to actively corrupt anyone.

Syndic.6198:

Well, this was funny…

Now I’d like to play without that huge head getting in my way… >_>

Sure, maybe it’s in the april fools spirit to annoy people, but do you really have to annoy them for hours with the SAME joke?

Why don’t you just take a step back and enjoy it for one day? Do you lose so much?

never noticed the norn were squinting while dancing

Ceridwen.6703:

HHR LostProphet.4801:

Is this NA only? Doesn’t work for me and I’m EU.

I’m EU and did a quick log in to check. No bobbleheads. Do we have to be in any particular place for this to hit?

I’m disappointed…
EDIT: Now it works, after several relogs.

Is this NA only? Doesn’t work for me and I’m on an EU server.

runeblade.7514:

I suggest the Ranger Longbow role should play like a pikeman.

• As you use the Longbow correctly, Enemies can never get close to you.

That might be a little bit too much. We should however be able to negate 2-3 gapclosers.

The problem with the current meta is that you get too much at once. If you would merge those stats, you would get even more at once. It would be only a power creep at best.

Prysin.8542:

HHR LostProphet.4801:

I don’t like the direction this is heading. A nerf shouldn’t be the outcome of making the LB “viable”. Also, lots of people complaining about the flanking penalty on the SB. It would be even worse with a longrange weapon. At last, I would still use melee weapons for melee range. There is, and there should be, absolutely no point of picking the LB over a melee weapon in melee range. I want a viable long range weapon. So Anet has to find a way of making long range combat more desireable than melee or mid range combat.

actually, the longer the distance, the more likely you are to get the flanking, because the more likely it is that your enemy is not aware of you/running away from you. If you consider a +10% chance to crit during flanking in a sniping role of hte outskirts of a zerg, then you realize you got a massive DPS boost. It would also help increase sustained damage by loads.

If you make the longbow AA even weaker, there is no point in running away from a LB ranger. So you’ll never utilize the damagebonus if you’re not already winning. It would also interfere with the common stacking tactic. If you force the mob against a wall, he will probably stand with his back towards the wall all the time.

Atherakhia.4086:

jcbroe.4329:

Substance E.4852:

HHR LostProphet.4801:

Substance E.4852:

HHR LostProphet.4801:

I just want to recap the design philosophy behind the longbow, so we’re all on the same table again:
The longbow is meant to deal damage at range. Noone ever said it should deal high damage.
However, there is the major flaw that we aren’t able to utilize the range we’ve been given. This applies both to WvW, where we aren’t able to maintain our range to justify the longbow, and PvE, where is simply no need to bring in a ranged weapon.
So there are two things we could do to fix the flaw.
1) Scrap the definition. The longbow can’t maintain it’s range and it wouldn’t need to if we would say that the longbow is meant to deal high damage on any range.
2) Fix the definition. The longbow can’t maintain it’s range. Therefore we have to add cripples and immobilizes to effectively maintain our range. This would be fairly easy to do for WvW, but maintaining the range in PvE isn’t the problem. The problem is, that there is no need to range anything. You can melee all day long in PvE. So ANet has either to deliver content tailored to using long range weapons or they have to buff the longbow to a certain extent, so it’s more desireable to use longrange weapons than melee weapons. Either way, they probably have to buff the damage atleast a bit.

It’d be far easier to simply remove the range penalty on the auto attack. It doesn’t need a bonus effect if it’s already the hardest hitting ranged attack in the game, that’s enough on it’s own. It then becomes useful in pve because you can stack in melee range and it’s still plenty balanced in pvp because melee will still hit for more and the bow lacks survival skills beyond a short stealth so you’re toast when they inevitably close the gap.

Then, if any balance issues do crop up, they can shave off damage from the auto till it works without having to drastically retool the skills.

Looks like a band-aid solution to me. Melee weapons should be more effective in melee range than ranged weapons. It is stupid to stand directly in front of the enemie and “snipe” him. It may be the easiest fix but it’s also the most silly fix I can think of.
They can, however, decrease the minimum range for the maximum damage required.

It still wouldn’t do more than the 1H sword. And as I said, they can then shave down the damage if it starts to break the “melee > ranged dps” rule.

It may be a band-aid fix, but that’s how Anet rolls with Ranger fixes anyway…

The damage would probably be “normalized.” AKA, the new damage value would be the current mid range damage value.

Which is fine if you ask me. The mid range value for the Longbow is about the same DPS as the shortbow. The shortbow pulls ahead if you can flank the target just 25% of the time. 100% of the time, even with 0 condi and a straight up power build, the sbow wins by a sizable margin.

I say normalize the damage and give the Longbow something else at the extended range and/or flanking to make it more of a unique weapon to set it apart from the shortbow.

For example:
Middle range damage regardless of range, 10% chance to crit when flanking, +10% crit dmg for 900 range.

I also agree with the other main discussion above… that the kiting advantages of the class simply don’t compete with the anti-kiting tools given to other classes. I’m still convinced that if this class were given a ‘fast hands’ trait like Warriors got so they could quickly swap between melee and range things would be fine though.

I don’t like the direction this is heading. A nerf shouldn’t be the outcome of making the LB “viable”. Also, lots of people complaining about the flanking penalty on the SB. It would be even worse with a longrange weapon. At last, I would still use melee weapons for melee range. There is, and there should be, absolutely no point of picking the LB over a melee weapon in melee range. I want a viable long range weapon. So Anet has to find a way of making long range combat more desireable than melee or mid range combat.

Substance E.4852:

HHR LostProphet.4801:

I just want to recap the design philosophy behind the longbow, so we’re all on the same table again:
The longbow is meant to deal damage at range. Noone ever said it should deal high damage.
However, there is the major flaw that we aren’t able to utilize the range we’ve been given. This applies both to WvW, where we aren’t able to maintain our range to justify the longbow, and PvE, where is simply no need to bring in a ranged weapon.
So there are two things we could do to fix the flaw.
1) Scrap the definition. The longbow can’t maintain it’s range and it wouldn’t need to if we would say that the longbow is meant to deal high damage on any range.
2) Fix the definition. The longbow can’t maintain it’s range. Therefore we have to add cripples and immobilizes to effectively maintain our range. This would be fairly easy to do for WvW, but maintaining the range in PvE isn’t the problem. The problem is, that there is no need to range anything. You can melee all day long in PvE. So ANet has either to deliver content tailored to using long range weapons or they have to buff the longbow to a certain extent, so it’s more desireable to use longrange weapons than melee weapons. Either way, they probably have to buff the damage atleast a bit.

It’d be far easier to simply remove the range penalty on the auto attack. It doesn’t need a bonus effect if it’s already the hardest hitting ranged attack in the game, that’s enough on it’s own. It then becomes useful in pve because you can stack in melee range and it’s still plenty balanced in pvp because melee will still hit for more and the bow lacks survival skills beyond a short stealth so you’re toast when they inevitably close the gap.

Then, if any balance issues do crop up, they can shave off damage from the auto till it works without having to drastically retool the skills.

Looks like a band-aid solution to me. Melee weapons should be more effective in melee range than ranged weapons. It is stupid to stand directly in front of the enemie and “snipe” him. It may be the easiest fix but it’s also the most silly fix I can think of.
They can, however, decrease the minimum range for the maximum damage required.

I just want to recap the design philosophy behind the longbow, so we’re all on the same table again:
The longbow is meant to deal damage at range. Noone ever said it should deal high damage.
However, there is the major flaw that we aren’t able to utilize the range we’ve been given. This applies both to WvW, where we aren’t able to maintain our range to justify the longbow, and PvE, where is simply no need to bring in a ranged weapon.
So there are two things we could do to fix the flaw.
1) Scrap the definition. The longbow can’t maintain it’s range and it wouldn’t need to if we would say that the longbow is meant to deal high damage on any range.
2) Fix the definition. The longbow can’t maintain it’s range. Therefore we have to add cripples and immobilizes to effectively maintain our range. This would be fairly easy to do for WvW, but maintaining the range in PvE isn’t the problem. The problem is, that there is no need to range anything. You can melee all day long in PvE. So ANet has either to deliver content tailored to using long range weapons or they have to buff the longbow to a certain extent, so it’s more desireable to use longrange weapons than melee weapons. Either way, they probably have to buff the damage atleast a bit.

BurrTheKing.8571:

HHR LostProphet.4801:

Deimos Tel Arin.7391:

Burnfall.9573:

• A Warrior is not a Ranger*

A warrior should not replace a ranger

My vision for bows is for ranger class only.

your argument is invalid as warriors are proficient in almost all martial weapons save a few puny ones.

No, it just means that they can use all weapons. What’s the deal of a class who can use almost al weapons and being the best in using them? It would be simply stupid.

What would be the point of having access to the LB on Warrior if it wasn’t good? The problem lies with Ranger LB being too weak, not Warrior LB being too strong.

It does mean that you can adapt to every situation you will encounter. However, a Ranger wielding a LB would be more effective than a Warrior using LB.

Windu The Forbidden One.6045:

Maybe she’s an old hag and her young look is just an illusion. She is a mesmer after all.

Same with Queen Jennah, she’s also a mesmer and I can remind myself of reading something about “Queen Jennah never shows her true look”.

silentnight warrior.2714:

I believe the devs know that warriors need the sustain they have (lack of ways to have active sustain), but they feel that a bunker warrior does to much damage with that skill.
My biggest problem with that nerf is the damage i will do with my full zerker warrior with no sustain at all. After all the nerfs will i still do enough damage to kill? Dont forget that a full zerker warrior does not have the sustain that a full zerker thief or full zerker mesmer have and they still do bigger damage.

I’m also worried because without sustain i could use pin down when i predict a very powerfull move im my direction. Now that wont be possible anymore. Warrior will be even more limited against good players.

So warriors are non-sustainable… Did you ever tried the new heal in a zerg fight? It’s hilarious.

Deimos Tel Arin.7391:

Burnfall.9573:

• A Warrior is not a Ranger*

A warrior should not replace a ranger

My vision for bows is for ranger class only.

your argument is invalid as warriors are proficient in almost all martial weapons save a few puny ones.

No, it just means that they can use all weapons. What’s the deal of a class who can use almost al weapons and being the best in using them? It would be simply stupid.

jcbroe.4329:

Chrispy.5641:

jcbroe.4329:

…snip…

you know that people can get a 9k longbow auto attack in WvW right now, right? add 25% to that, it becomes 11.25K, for an auto attack, with no active tell telling someone they are about to die, unlike killshot.

Those numbers are taken from a target that would have around 2600 armor is the reason why my numbers don’t match yours. Just a heads up for the information sharing. I’m more than well aware that damage is higher against squishier targets, but that was a generic calculation.

It will also just hit you that high if you let the ranger building vulnstacks on you. If you know he tries that. you should either cleanse it or move within the 1000 range.
I’m personally all for this more damage on vuln stacks idea and I also like the hunter’s shot idea (imob+vuln).
What I also would like to see is a cripple attached to the weapon. Either on LB #4 or on LB #1. ANet could turn the AA into a 3-hit chain. The first shot could have low damage but low cast/aftercast animation to get an AA between the other skills of. The second shot could be a long casting, high damaging shot, who would benefit the most from 1hit steroids like Signet of the Hunt. The third AA would be a fast firing (harder to dodge), crippling shot to maintain distance.

(Note: I’m not suggestion that the overall flat damage of the AA should be increased.)

CureForLiving.5360:

Konig Des Todes.2086:

The idea was more that plants take in CO2 and give out breathable air – the reverse of animals. So theoretically (we don’t know if sylvari function this way!), a human and a sylvari could breath into each other without issue.

Stumbled on a conversation between two Asura in Brisban where one mentions that Sylvari do photosynthesis, and the other mentioned that no one has any idea how Sylvari work. So I guess that’s a maybe.

From a scientific point of view, some might be able but definitely all of them. A crutial part of photosynthesis is the chlorophyll. It’s also responsible for the green color. So since we are able to paint our Sylvari in different colors, it’s most likely that the don’t use photosynthesis. Furthermore, photosynthesis does provide enough energy for a tree to grow but it’s definitely not enough energy to provide a humanoid being.

And I don’t know which dragon would be the strongest, each dragon seems to represent a special type of magic. I don’t even know if they’re fighting or ignoring each other. But I could think of them fighting each other once the magic they can harvest runs low.

draxynnic.3719:

But to take this in a different direction, the other flaw in your conclusions – the assumption that if the dragon is corrupting the dream through the nightmare, it must be doing so specifically because it’s after the sylvari, and that it’s targeting the sylvari specifically because they’re dragon minions connected to that dragon that have gained their independence. As opposed to the much simpler explanation that the dragon has sensed the magic of the Dream and wants it for itself.

The nightmare is a part of the dream, it was created with the dream and represents, among other things, the bad emotions. So why isn’t it just the bad feelings who’ve created the nightmare? Because once a Sylvari fell for the nightmare, he can’t escape.
This is the very difference between emotions and corruption. Emotions can be changed, corruption can’t. So the nightmare, the corruption was always a part of the dream and it’s neither fed by the Sylvari or the Pale Tree. Chances are, that’s Mordremoth. And come on, Elder Dragon made of wood and a new race only few years old also made of wood? Too much accordance.

We also have an example of a dragon (Jormag, to be precise) looking to access and corrupt the Mists. The Spirits of the Wild dwell partly in the Mists, and the gods had their realms there. Is Jormag attacking the Mists specifically because it’s after the spirits and the gods? Does it then follow that the spirits and gods are also dragon minions? Does this, by extension, mean that norn and humans are dragon minions?

If you mean the snow fractal as evidence of Jormag trying to infiltrate the mists, that’s pretty much a flawed assumption. Do the charr try to take over the mists because we can fight with them? Or the dredge, or the grawl? Does Scarlet try to infiltrate the mists because we can fight against her minions? No, it’s just a random place in a (for the most part) unknown time. More like memories we have to fight through than real happenings.

draxynnic.3719:

If you’re going to link, link to the primary source (or, rather, the direct quotation of the primary source). The general wiki articles are riddled with people’s interpretations being posted as fact.

Speaking of which, an example of a landmark that is linked to the Dream.

And that proves …?
I can think of my house. Do I have created my house a second time somewhere physically? No, I haven’t.
There is no problem if the Dream is copying Tyria 1:1, because that doesn’t have to mean that’s physically real.

draxynnic.3719:

HHR LostProphet.4801:

Furthermore, only the Sylvari and the Tree have a connection to the Dream

This part is factually incorrect, and with that, your entire set of claims collapse. There is at least one creature – the White Stag – that is not a sylvari and is connected to the Dream. There are also places of power that are connected to the Dream, and such places are obviously not sylvari.

That is one creature. And we know nothing about this creature. All we do know is that it’s been fed by the hope of the Sylvari. It’s a manifestation of the faith and joy of the sylvari race. So it’s probably from the Dream and would’ve never existed without the Dream or the Sylvari.
It’s no reason, it’s a result of the Dream.

draxynnic.3719:

I’d be hesitant to say the orb is connected to the DSD until we learn more about it – the water aspect of it may simply be coincidence. It could, for instance, have been something that the forgotten created to block Zhaitan, and Zhaitan’s rise was in fact triggered by krait looting it from the ruins of Orr in the first place.

In any respect, it’s not a case of mixing draconic energy into creatures to create a race that is protected against corruption. It’s an artifact that fights against corruption.

HHR LostProphet.4801:

So let’s recap:
The nightmare is a part of the dream, it’s being established with the creation of the dream itself and it’s influencing the sylvari all the time. Conclusion: The very exsistance of the sylvari is the reason for the nighmare to exsist. It’s always been a part of them.
So, if the ritual is able to free a sylvari from the nightmare, that shows that the nightmare is a dragonmade obsession, like the brand is from Kralkatorrik. It also shows that the sylvari are dragonminions, since the nightmare and the dream are connected, if not even the same.

Everything you have said after ‘conclusion’ is flawed. We’ve seen that animals and objects can also be connected to the Dream, so it isn’t specific to sylvari or even plants in general. Thus, the Nightmare does not have to be aimed at the sylvari in particular. If the Nightmare is draconic in origin, it could easily just have been cast as a broad net into a magical realm to see what it can catch, rather than specifically aimed at the sylvari.

Furthermore, even if the Nightmare is specifically aimed at the sylvari by a dragon, it does not mean that they had any prior connection to that or any other dragon – just that the dragon, or one of its champions, recognised that corrupting the Dream might be a way to get at the sylvari.

The nightmare is a part of the Dream, the Pale Tree itself says that. Furthermore, only the Sylvari and the Tree have a connection to the Dream, yet both are not the source of the Dream. The Dream isn’t bound to a certain area, it behaves like a mind.
On top of that, the Sylvari can’t choose to be not connected to the Dream, only a strong mind can set itself free from the dream. This all are evidences for that the Sylvari are meant to be influenced by the Dream, such as dragon minions are influenced by their dragons.

Horst Hortensie.5420:

The dream is the matrix while the nightmare is reality. You are talking about the dream of dreams and that is not bound to Mordremoth (neither is the dream).

The dream of dreams is more the vision of the future from another enitity (a plan). And the portal could be just a symbolic gate for your mind, which you open for the dream (a powerful mesmer magic) for an easier entrance to your mind.

If you meet the Pale Tree for the first time and it asks: “Would you mind if I explore your brain?” do you say yes?

The Dream of Dreams and the Dream are the same. And the Dream is not “dreamt” by the Pale Tree or the Sylvary but by an unknown source. The Sylvari and the Pale Tree are only connected to the Dream and have limited access.
Think of it this way: Every Sylvari has access to the Dream comparable to the Guest account of windows. The Pale tree would be the Administrator. Yet, the System account is unknown.

Vox Hollow.2736:

I thought you were on fire in that thread.
kitten shame much didn’t seem to come of it.

The CDI thread was all over the place. The devs didn’t direct it whatsoever. The only things they’ve said where mediocre at its best. The Pet = Brick in a house example still hurts though…

Nike.2631:

Devs have specifically mentioned working on it.

No ETA. No announcement. No false hopes.

Hopes… We have come a long, hard way, only to be reminded to not use the words “hope” and “GuildWars 2” in one sentence.

Nike.2631:

You know what ArenaNet needs to do?

They need to STOP DRESTORYING EXISTING CONTENT.

Everything described in this thread would be really neat… for a new boss, preferably in a new zone.

Well, they could atleast make the Shatterer more challenging. If I fight the Shatterer I want to have the “Yeah, I’m fighting the most powerful dragonminion right now” feeling
without the need to bring atleast 150 players to defeat him. But still, those fights should’ve been something special. Yet I’m not very pleased. It’s easy, yeah, but I would like to have some sort of crazy 10-stages fight with epic loot at the end rather than this afk zerging.

Erukk.1408:

HHR LostProphet.4801:

I think this portal got implemented due to the engine they used rather than a gameplay aspect. Furthermore, how should this work out? The Pale Tree can see the future, atleast at some part. So there has to be a second Tyria somewhere if the Dream should be a physical place.

It doesn’t matter, because it’s lore now. The Pale Tree has the ability to open portals where people can physically enter the Dream.

I wouldn’t say she has the ability to see the future. She can only see possible future. As for how the dialogue words it, Trahearne says she cannot maintain this “shard” of the Dream for long. So I would think it works similarly to how the Fractals do.

You can physically enter the dream, but the dream is still no physical place.
It’s more like in Tron, where the actor got physically teleported into the computer. Still it’s not a physical place.

MonMalthias.4763:

Obviously the points I delineated on my other post about implementing cross-mob type combos and CC and Condition and Boon output can and should be a long term goal to strive for, but increased attack speed and decreased spike damage output would already do a lot to alter the DPS DPS DPS paradigm that is so dominant right now.

While I think increasing the attackspeed would solve some problems, I highly doubt that it could break the “zerk and stack” meta in dungeons. We would need an AI overhaul, so that the mobs punish the player for stacking and putting only zerker into a group.
Tl;dr: Mobs have to behave more like real players.

But I can think of a way to stop stacking in general, I’ll leave a link if someone is interested.

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/gw2/How2-solve-Stacking-and-Zerging-without-nerfs/first#post3823415

Erukk.1408:

HHR LostProphet.4801:

No? The Dream is like the Internet and the Nightmare like the Darknet.

Somewhat, but The Dream is also a physical place. The Pale Tree sends the player and Trahearne there during the PS.

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/A_Light_in_the_Darkness

Avatar of the Tree: You must soon enter the vision, and gain a glimpse of what may be.
Player:What do you mean, “vision”?
Avatar of the Tree: The portal before you is a passage into the Dream. There, you will see glimpses of the past, the present, and the future.
Player:What is the Dream? I don’t understand.
Avatar of the Tree: The Dream is the sylvari unconscious, the wellspring from which we flow. It holds our memories, as well as our hopes and fears. I am its keeper.

The Pale Tree didn’t put the player to sleep and transport them there mentally. She literally opened up a portal to the location of a “shard” that contained a possibly future within the Dream.

I think this portal got implemented due to the engine they used rather than a gameplay aspect. Furthermore, how should this work out? The Pale Tree can see the future, atleast at some part. So there has to be a second Tyria somewhere if the Dream should be a physical place.

Darkbattlemage.9612:

HHR LostProphet.4801:

Conclusion: The very exsistance of the sylvari is the reason for the nighmare to exsist. It’s always been a part of them.

Through this logic there exist another possible explanation. The nightmare isn’t dragon corruption or dragon influence upon the Sylvari but rather the darker aspects of the Sylvari made manifest within the Dream. If this is the case than for the Sylvari to “fall to nightmare” is for a Sylvari to succumb to any number of negative emotions. Essentially the Sylvari are Guild Wars 2 equivalent of Jedi if one were to look at this hypothesis in a particular way. To follow the Light path one must adhere to the teachings of the tablet while to follow dark is to give oneself into their darker emotions aka the Nightmare.

But I doubt this is and the “its dragon corruption/nightmare thus Sylvari are Dragon minions” are correct.

Yeah, but there is one point working agianst your statement: If a Sylvari has fallen for the nightmare, they can’t escape anymore. The only other “corruption” I know you are unable to cast off on your own is the dragon corruption. We would know more if we could take a corrupted Sylvari to the saltar of Arah P3.

Simon.3794:

HHR LostProphet.4801:

glaphen.5230:

HHR LostProphet.4801:

Harper.4173:

Orpheal.8263:

So basicalyl Thieves are from all classes in regard of moveability, just the 3rd place, when they are supposed to be the 1st place, because moveability is a thieve’s core concept and not that of a warrior or elemetalist, whose core concepts lie alot more on damage dealing and support, but not moveability >.>

You’re so dead wrong.
Stealth is your core concept. STEALTH.

Experts at stealth and surprise, thieves can move through the shadows, vanish into thin air, or steal items from their opponents and use them as weapons. Thieves practice an agile, acrobatic fighting style, which can make them very hard to hit.

Source : https://www.guildwars2.com/en/the-game/professions/thief/

You know who is supposed to be the fastest class in game? It’s the ranger, the skirmisher. By definition, the ranger has no burst but sustained damage.
Now this is very bad if the ranger gets outrunned by other classes. They can get bursted down easily because everyone is able to catch up to them. On the same note, ranger can’t kill anyone because they can run away.
So, following this logic, all classes should have less mobility than the ranger.

They are the fastest.

Errr, no? Warrior has more mobility with shorter cooldowns and a 100% swiftness uptime. The ranger reaches non of those.

i love how you are arguing with a thief who probably has more thief experience then you will ever have, please learn to read.

fastest, most thieves mobilities are instant cast 900 range, while warriors single mobility need atleast 1 second of cast time. shorter cd only means he can long run, eventually surpass thieves in a long period of running time, like running for more then 1 mins non stop, only if he gear for mobility too.

while most meta thieves build have almost the same speed and mobile range. No matter how “fast” warriors are at long duration running, it’s useless, in pvp setup, a thief will always get to any point from home point way faster then warrior. Sure if you are just a wvwer “pro” who uses a fighting build and want to chase a “no good fighting” “good for long duration running” only war. please tell me a way to stop a thief from resetting “run away or stealth” in wvw, lets not mention these builds are also “good for fighting”. i know, cool story.

Please, I’ve never argued about the thief. Just read my statement. I’m talking about the ranger, and as you should know, the ranger isn’t the thief.

Konig Des Todes.2086:

The Dream of Dreams is an actual place. Not just some figment of someone’s imagination. The name “dream” (just like the name “nightmare”) are merely metaphorical.

No? The Dream is like the Internet and the Nightmare like the Darknet.

Harper.4173:

HHR LostProphet.4801:

Doctor Orderly MD PhD DDS.7625:

Do you even Spectral Walk, bro?

also even with D/D’s -300 range on RtL and increased cooldown, ele is still fastest. Dat Fiery GS.
I also disagree that warriors ‘arent mean to’. That’s too subjective. After all don’t warriors have the strongest muscles and the strongest legs? :P

I also find your skill as a ranger dubious. Surely after 1.5k hrs you have mastered sword #2 to equally rival warriors sword #2? Only (!!) if the warrior equips bulls charge can he solidly outrun ranger.

So you use FGS to run away? Good joke. Also the warrior is meant to be the fastest class in game? Ontop of his survivability, toughness, damage, buff and debuff potential? Really, get your facts straight.

Warriors are masters of weaponry who rely on speed, strength, toughness, and heavy armor to survive in battle. Adrenaline fuels their offensive power—the longer warriors stay in a fight, the more dangerous they become.

You do realize that’s exactly the case right?
https://www.guildwars2.com/en/the-game/professions/warrior/

…

Also regarding the warrior design philosophy. That’s what it was. Given the changes they’ve made to warrior it’s obvious that that philosophy has changed.
Dev statements have been thrown around the forum a lot – and a lot of them no longer stand true.

Nice try.

No way they will remove Sylvari as playable race. I don’t even think that Sylvari will be affected by Morfremoth simply because ANet is too lazy to pull this twist off. But if Sylvari are the minions of Mordremoth, I think it would be this way:
Something happened what wasn’t meant to happen: The Paly Tree grew and gave birth to the Sylvari. But the dreamer of the Dream of Dreams, Mordremoth was still asleep and had no control over the dream. If he would be awake, all Sylvari would behave like any other dragonminions: Braindead creatures, only meant to serve their master. But not only was Mordremoth not awake but also the Pale Tree assimilated Ventari’s teachings. Those teaching taught the tree to respect the life of all creatuse and to fight the “bad guys”. So the Tree, the only one who could actively influence the dream, taught the Sylvari to fight the evil. Mordremoth however, despite being asleep, had still some influence on the dream, represented by the nightmare. All Sylvari who have fallen for the nightmare can’t escape, same as no other dragonminion can. Yet they have no real clue what to do other than infecting the whole dream, because Mordremoth has not yet taken control over the nightmare. If he awakes and takes control, the Pale Tree will have a much harder time resisting the nightmare, but as the Tree has said himself: The Tree and the Dream can’t control each other. So it will be a fight for the Dream between the Pale Tree and Mordremoth. Many Sylvari will probably fall for the nightmare but not all and they can be cured with the ritual which once has cured Glint. The interesting question is if the Pale Tree is able to cut the nightmare off the Dream if Mordremoth tries to take control, so no Sylvari runs into the danger of getting obsessed by the nightmare.

Konig Des Todes.2086:

HHR LostProphet.4801:

Well, the only thing we, as players, have to do is capturing someone from the nightmare court and bring him to the end of Arah P3, where warden Illyra has freed the risen chicken, to free the sylvari. If the sylvari isn’t obsessed by the nightmare after the ritual, we’ve proven that the nightmare is an incarnation of Mordremoth’s influence and that the sylvari are indeed dragonminions. The pure luck is accountable for the finding of Ventari’s Tablet by the Pale Tree, which has turned the sylvari as race into a “good one”. We have to see how Mordremoth’s awakening will influence the dream, if the Pale Tree is able to resist the influence of Mordremoth.

I fail to see how a sylvari turning normal if it was a Nightmare Courtier and underwent a mentality cleansing ritual means all sylvari are dragon minions and the Ventari’s Tablet is what freed them.

Even if that ritual cleans Nightmare Courtiers, all that means is that 1) the ritual cleans any mental alterations and not just dragon corruption, or 2) the Nightmare is tied to the Elder Dragons (not necessarily Mordremoth!). Doesn’t prove sylvari on a whole as cleansed dragon minions – let alone non-cleasned ones (given no change in Illyra, that seems like if they are dragon minions, then they were cleansed already somehow – and the Ventari Tablet holds no magic to do such a feat).

The ritual is meant to free dragonminions from their obsession. It has freed Glint and it has freed the risen chicken.
The nightmare is a part of the dream and I think it’s the influence of Mordremoth.
All who are obsessed by the nightmare can’t be saved, so the nightmare is behaving like any other dragon obsession. Yet Mordremoth is sleeping so he has no power to control the dream, he is, however, already influencing the dream and drives the nightmare court to attack the Pale Tree and other races.
The sylvari are being born by the Pale Tree, a seed of unknown source. It could be Mordremoth’s way to create minions.
Ventari’s Tablet however gave a destiny to the Pale Tree, the Tree was able to understand the world before he was even grown. If the sylvari would have no clue what so ever why they were created, they would fall much more easily to Mordremoth’s influence.
So let’s recap:
The nightmare is a part of the dream, it’s being established with the creation of the dream itself and it’s influencing the sylvari all the time. Conclusion: The very exsistance of the sylvari is the reason for the nighmare to exsist. It’s always been a part of them.
So, if the ritual is able to free a sylvari from the nightmare, that shows that the nightmare is a dragonmade obsession, like the brand is from Kralkatorrik. It also shows that the sylvari are dragonminions, since the nightmare and the dream are connected, if not even the same.

Doctor Orderly MD PhD DDS.7625:

Do you even Spectral Walk, bro?

also even with D/D’s -300 range on RtL and increased cooldown, ele is still fastest. Dat Fiery GS.
I also disagree that warriors ‘arent mean to’. That’s too subjective. After all don’t warriors have the strongest muscles and the strongest legs? :P

I also find your skill as a ranger dubious. Surely after 1.5k hrs you have mastered sword #2 to equally rival warriors sword #2? Only (!!) if the warrior equips bulls charge can he solidly outrun ranger.

So you use FGS to run away? Good joke. Also the warrior is meant to be the fastest class in game? Ontop of his survivability, toughness, damage, buff and debuff potential? Really, get your facts straight.

Doctor Orderly MD PhD DDS.7625:

killahmayne.9518:

I find it highly contradictory that people complain about gap closing and opening yet Warrior is the only class that they complain about as if they are the only class that can do this.

This is very, very true. Warriors don’t have the best mobility, they just have great mobility, great offenses and good defenses. Singling out just the mobility doesn’t make sense. The real problem, even in this thread, appears to be Healing Signet. Warrior’s mobility hasnt been touched since launch, but buff HS and suddenly everything is good about warriors. Mind you, for a long time warriors were bottom tier, and the most important differences between then and now are healing signet and stance buffs.

I reckon the best mobility is as follows:
Ele has the best, due to Fiery GS, D/D skills and lightning flash
Then warrior, if gs+s/wh + bulls charge (decent, yet not great setup for actual combat)
Then ranger (also gs+s/wh. Hornet sting and monarch leap both in the right direction isnt hard lol) and thief.

I’m fine with these rankings.

Also necro has the best vertical mobility. Can fall as long and from as high as he wants without dying

You’re a little out of date. Necros can’t fall infinite distances anymore, it got changed months ago. D/D Eles got also nerfed. Also, while I agree that a bunnyhopping thief can be as anoying as a running warrior, this is sort of what thiefs do. A warrior on the other hand is not meant to run away as he pleases.

glaphen.5230:

HHR LostProphet.4801:

glaphen.5230:

glaphen.5230:

So a Ranger with sword/X and greatsword uses Swoop and swaps to sword to use Hornet Stingx3 and back to Swoop and goes 5200 in 12 seconds of cooldowns.

A Warrior also with sword/X and greatsword uses Whirlwind Attack-Rush-Savage Leapx2-Whirlwind Attack-Savage Leap-Whirlwind Attack-Rush and goes 5550 in 20 seconds of cooldowns.

An Elementalist with D/D uses Burning Speed-Ride the Lightning-Conjure Fiery Greatsword-Fiery Whirl-Fiery Rush-Fiery Whirlx2-Fiery Rush and goes 5700 in 10 seconds of cooldowns.

A Thief with a dagger uses Heartseekerx6 over 18 seconds and goes 2700 in 18 seconds of initiative when starting at 0 and doesn’t care since he was stealthed and still managed to escape with every skill on cooldown.

So how do Warriors have good mobility again? They have the 4th best and only if they use a weapon set that can’t kill on its own.

Ranger wins over anything in sustained while a Thief would win in burst if built for it.

Lol, stop theorycrafting dude, that doesn’t apply to the game, not by a long shot.
But if you don’t believe me, we can do a race. I bet my warrior wins. If you’re on EU servers, just say it, I’m up for a race.

Please explain to me how this doesn’t apply? I’m on NA servers.

You can add all the leapdistances and cooldowns together and say “Yeah, the ranger should be faster”, but this simply does not work out. I’ve played my ranger for over 1,5k hours now and my warrior for 800 hours. And the warrior is faster in simply everything. In killing mobs as in running.

glaphen.5230:

glaphen.5230:

So a Ranger with sword/X and greatsword uses Swoop and swaps to sword to use Hornet Stingx3 and back to Swoop and goes 5200 in 12 seconds of cooldowns.

A Warrior also with sword/X and greatsword uses Whirlwind Attack-Rush-Savage Leapx2-Whirlwind Attack-Savage Leap-Whirlwind Attack-Rush and goes 5550 in 20 seconds of cooldowns.

An Elementalist with D/D uses Burning Speed-Ride the Lightning-Conjure Fiery Greatsword-Fiery Whirl-Fiery Rush-Fiery Whirlx2-Fiery Rush and goes 5700 in 10 seconds of cooldowns.

A Thief with a dagger uses Heartseekerx6 over 18 seconds and goes 2700 in 18 seconds of initiative when starting at 0 and doesn’t care since he was stealthed and still managed to escape with every skill on cooldown.

So how do Warriors have good mobility again? They have the 4th best and only if they use a weapon set that can’t kill on its own.

Ranger wins over anything in sustained while a Thief would win in burst if built for it.

Lol, stop theorycrafting dude, that doesn’t apply to the game, not by a long shot.
But if you don’t believe me, we can do a race. I bet my warrior wins. If you’re on EU servers, just say it, I’m up for a race.