Guild Wars 2

Burn.5401:

So I don’t remember “if” and “when” there was a reset and that is somehow contradictory? lol

Um, is english your first language? Cause that’s exactly what you were implying using “If” then switching to “when”.

Burn.5401:

I can tell you I’m currently Plat 2 with about 20 games played, but feel free to call me a lier now and come up with some other made up thing for no reason.

Let’s see if you’re still there at the end of the season or if you could even get there with a hard reset first.

(Hint: you’re better off this way)

There is definitely something fishy going on when I see people post screenshots of each member of the match’s mmr and there’s a wild imbalance between the two, esp. if there are 2 duo queues on one team and just moving one of the duos over would result in a better balance.

I remember one time (a few years ago) someone posted a similar problem with the match maker and how it distributed ratings unevenly which ANet denied at first then went back again to look and said “Yep it actually does do that, sorry we’ll fix it”

Maybe it’s the same sort of problem.

megilandil.7506:

Honest John.4673:

Win/loss has no correlation on how good of a player you are. You heard it here first folks! This is the type of person you’ve attracted to your game Anet, are you proud?

another what are clueless of how the mm system for a ladder rank sistem should go.
a competitive ladder system works with you climbing defeating your “ladder companions” (not farming low ladders) until you are better than your “ladder companions” you will have an high win/loss ratio when you will be among your truly equals an fighting versus them your win/loss ratio will be of 50% AND YOU WILL BE IN YOUR TRUE POSITION IN THE LADDER.

The faults of this sistem is more clearly observed viewing the top ones, they had reached their positions and conserve and enormous win/loss ratio that is not correct for anyone having hit his site, in others ranks you cant observe this , you dont know if players are climbing or they reached theyr TRUE PLACE
3) the

I don’t think you understand how a bellcurve system works. Or what an outlier is.

fluidmonolith.3584:

I certainly agree that 10 matches for placement is not nearly enough. What if everyone started at the same rank? Everyone starts at a rating of zero in bronze, for example. Yes, it means that pros will play against new players for the first few games, but it won’t be long before they move up.

If everyone starts at bronze that’s the new average, literally…. by definition. Every game that uses a rating starts you out in the middle, in this case it’s 1200.

Burn.5401:

Honest John.4673:

Burn.5401:

Honest John.4673:

Blackdagger.9670:

Well, to be honest I actually expect Anet to say “Ok… we screwed that up” in this situation about matchmaking of this season.

Hard MMR reset for all accounts is the only way out of this hell. I am sorry but it is more than an option at the moment. It’s more like a mandatory action. Every day from now on that Anet spends with not considering to initiate Hard MMR reset, is just another day with full of depressing, exhausting and pointless time to be wasted for players. Because this will eventually leads to death of pvp and losing tons of loyal players in gw2 pvp community.

Mark my words.

Thing is they have done a hard MMR reset before and from their own admission it was terrible.

How will a hard reset NOT make even worse match ups for months?

There hasn’t been a single hard reset during ANY of the league seasons. Hell I don’t even remember if they have done one before that. The problem is that they have been changing their system DRASTICALLY throughout the last year so that past MMR values impact the new ratings in a negative way. Players that got very high MMR during previous installments might not be suited for that rating in the current one and vice versa. We are already burdened with bad matchups due to volatile ratings, placements having too much of an impact and no restriction for the top spots of the leaderboard, so why not have a fresh start without the leftover discrepancies of the mess which is the hidden MMR?

Just because they didn’t tell you at the time didn’t mean it didn’t happen. If you want to call Evan a liar straight to his face after he admitted MMR was hard reset (and that it was a terrible experience) then go right ahead, that’s your prerogative. But a hard reset would take months to correct itself while things are already being corrected.

I know you probably are too fuming to see your MMR be not quite as high as you thought it was but if you record your gameplay and have people you know are better than you review it then you can still improve. :^)

This is some next level strawman you have going there. First, I never said the hidden MMR was never reset, I simply admitted that I’m not sure when that happened because I’m certain it was not during the past two years. Second, I don’t see myself talking about my experience and my rating anywhere in my previous post so good job on that one.

First, you say “I don’t even remember if they have done one before that” admitting to not knowing if they have, then try to turn that around to mean “I’m not sure when that happened” like you knew it did happen you just didn’t know when.

And if you have to advocate for a hard reset then I can kind of gauge where your skill set is at, that or you’re woefully misinformed.

Burn.5401:

Honest John.4673:

Blackdagger.9670:

Well, to be honest I actually expect Anet to say “Ok… we screwed that up” in this situation about matchmaking of this season.

Hard MMR reset for all accounts is the only way out of this hell. I am sorry but it is more than an option at the moment. It’s more like a mandatory action. Every day from now on that Anet spends with not considering to initiate Hard MMR reset, is just another day with full of depressing, exhausting and pointless time to be wasted for players. Because this will eventually leads to death of pvp and losing tons of loyal players in gw2 pvp community.

Mark my words.

Thing is they have done a hard MMR reset before and from their own admission it was terrible.

How will a hard reset NOT make even worse match ups for months?

There hasn’t been a single hard reset during ANY of the league seasons. Hell I don’t even remember if they have done one before that. The problem is that they have been changing their system DRASTICALLY throughout the last year so that past MMR values impact the new ratings in a negative way. Players that got very high MMR during previous installments might not be suited for that rating in the current one and vice versa. We are already burdened with bad matchups due to volatile ratings, placements having too much of an impact and no restriction for the top spots of the leaderboard, so why not have a fresh start without the leftover discrepancies of the mess which is the hidden MMR?

Just because they didn’t tell you at the time didn’t mean it didn’t happen. If you want to call Evan a liar straight to his face after he admitted MMR was hard reset (and that it was a terrible experience) then go right ahead, that’s your prerogative. But a hard reset would take months to correct itself while things are already being corrected.

I know you probably are too fuming to see your MMR be not quite as high as you thought it was but if you record your gameplay and have people you know are better than you review it then you can still improve. :^)

Win/loss has no correlation on how good of a player you are. You heard it here first folks! This is the type of person you’ve attracted to your game Anet, are you proud?

Reaper Alim.4176:

OnizukaBR.8537:

Doesnt matter, if you played badly your placement you will climb if you belong higher. If you cant climb you dont belong. There always be a bunch of players that will cry “I dont belong in bronze/silver i got unlucky” even there always a lot of players that climb to higher ranks. Its the same with any other game ( lol, dota, overwatch, cs go) all have posts like these of players trapped in their own illusion of greatness.

Ok fine then you drop down to bronze solo and work your way back up. Since you are soo much more of a elite PvPers then these players. I bet you won’t. You know why? Because even you know you are doing nothing but spewing forth crap that not even worth one cent. If you are able to climb from bronze 2 where you are at now, then I’ll shut my mouth. Till you are willing to do that I think it is you who is the one who just needs to shut his month and be quite and continue hiding… I mean riding on that freelo train. Oh and video or screenshots with time stamps or it didn’t happened.

Funny the nerve of some people talking down on to others just because they got a unfair advantage going on outside of their own influence. But hey that’s just about right for a make believe competition. That’s I main other Real competitive PvP games where these issues are either not a issue or just flat out dealt with. Oh and the Bi-Monthly balancing patches and other game modes then 5v5 conquests are pro status. I’ve taking a liking to 3v3 Joust.

If you really were any good Reaper, then you’d climb out. You take up a slot on your team. That means there’s a 4 chances a sub-par player gets on your team and 5 chances he gets on the other. The odds are already stacked in your favor if you’re as good as you say you are. That’s just how the math works out.

And I’ve told you before, Helseth is streaming from a bronze alt all the way to legend. Just watch his stream.

JTGuevara.9018:

I can’t wait until some of you guys start tumbling down and getting a taste of the bronze life. Let’s see if you protect the system then.

Some of us aren’t as bad as you. I’ve seen people climb 400 MMR. The cognitive dissonance of people who thought they were legend tier but really bronze is almost palpable. Can’t be you so blame the system. Pretty much every one I know who placed low has climbed out already.

kdaddy.5431:

The person wrote staff ele, guess what he had placement matches just like everyone else.

Also at low levels you will see every type of build not work. If your going to argue disconnect lets argue the facts.

In silver and bronze alot of players can play what ever they want because the skill level is all over the place. At high skill levels build diversity becomes less and less. You will not see as many DH/ele/thieves/mesmer on one team since its better for team comps. You see it in mid-low area skill sets.

So if your going to argue people using staff eles are being bad, literally name every build in the game because anyone can mess up anything in this game when you dont know how to play it.

OF COURSE bad players in the lower divisions are going to be bad even in the best builds, or any build. Of course they are. But they’re not going to be any better if they’re playing staff ele. That’s the whole point of pointing it out in the first place is to see some nuance.

If I can’t hit the target with a 9mm then going straight to a .50 cal isn’t going to make me better.

If you can’t win or be effective with something low skill floor then why even bother with something that requires a high skill floor? I think this is the angle you’re missing. Every time I see someone I know is bad trying something that requires a lot more experience/skill than they have I think “Yeah right, bud…” That’s all we’re trying to point out.

Blackdagger.9670:

Well, to be honest I actually expect Anet to say “Ok… we screwed that up” in this situation about matchmaking of this season.

Hard MMR reset for all accounts is the only way out of this hell. I am sorry but it is more than an option at the moment. It’s more like a mandatory action. Every day from now on that Anet spends with not considering to initiate Hard MMR reset, is just another day with full of depressing, exhausting and pointless time to be wasted for players. Because this will eventually leads to death of pvp and losing tons of loyal players in gw2 pvp community.

Mark my words.

Thing is they have done a hard MMR reset before and from their own admission it was terrible.

How will a hard reset NOT make even worse match ups for months?

Burtnik.5218:

Spartacus.3192:

lol sure lets go back to the Old Skool holy trinity which ANET specifically said they wanted to get AWAY from. HAHA

What selfheal has to do with holy trinity? I dont get it.

Nothing, did you not read his post? ANet made it so every class has a heal as an attempt to MOVE AWAY from the Holy Trinity. That’s the entire point.

Reaper Alim.4176:

So far none of the ESL players have even bother to try to prove us wrong. By anonymously making another account and start in Bronze solo queue and work their way up. Then show us the recording of this climb. Until such footage shows up,

Are you gonna shut up? Cause Helseth is doing this right now. He made an alt in bronze and is currently working his way up.

The people who belong at the top are going to get there anyway. Maybe more matches to appear on the leaderboards but I don’t even know how possible it’ll be to snipe it on the last day without cheating and paying paying people to throw.

kdaddy.5431:

Honest John.4673:

kdaddy.5431:

you should take staff ele off your list.

I wont name him but a former number 1 solo que player mained staff ele back then and is in the top 60 i believe and is still playing staff ele with a record of like 20-2.

So one single extremely rare (probably the only one) edge case disproves the multitudes of bad staff eles in bronze/silver who know nothing and contribute nothing with staff and random builds? Makes sense.

Thats on the PvP players them selves. If you have 1 player who literally can carry players on staff ele into legendary division then it says that it can be done.

Ive seen players who ran the meta druid/ele/ etc etc build and simply didnt play there role right.

I lost a game because a menders shout ele went to try and kill the beast instead of holding the home point. They got ganked by a thief so home was decapped and the beast stolen. We lost by 20 points and had they just sat on the point we would of won.

Another match i had a necro sit on cap points we owned and literally ran from the ele at times.

I had a necro from a ESL team/Guild go into reaper form every time i went into my water overload. That necro is not in legendary and is constantly duo queing.

This staff ele might be the exception but i think the same rules apply. You write staff ele if there is a staff ele better then you.

Like let me just ask you, lets just say this former number 1# ranked solo que player former top 150# team ranked que player and now top 60 ranked player for the new system is in a match with you. Do you want him on your team or against you? If you want him on your team you cant really say staff ele or will you?

A pro level player being able to play in no armor with one had tied behind their back is not what we’re talking about here. We’re talking about lower division players using staff ele and being terrible at it. You wanted it off the list because a pro level player can be good at it. There is clearly a disconnect here.

Glael.7643:

Honest John.4673:

Glael.7643:

what I encountered today : keeping 3 people busy on close while playing my thief, the others didn’t manage to cap mid in the meantime. gg

If you can keep 3 people busy that probably means they are really terrible, meaning that your teammates are probably pretty terrible as well (to be matched with each other), and seeing as how they couldn’t cap mid, that’s the case.

This is a tell tale sign that you should probably be helping your incompetent team mates. It’s also the extremely tired cry of every bronze/silver (and even lower gold) ranked players who think they’re doing awesome and their team mates are bad but they’re really making bad decisions themselves and can’t see the bigger picture.

This is why you’re in bronze.

So then tell me how I can help a team which won’t even listen to the slightest advices?
One person can’t carry an entire team, if said team just doesn’t wanna listen etc.

I’d really love to see your footage. Record a few of your matches and let’s see you doing nothing wrong and making none of the listed mistakes yourself.

When will people learn that casual and competitive don’t mix? Gw2 supposedly being “casual friendly” (when they only really ever said you don’t have to do runescape-like grind) is such a sorry tired excuse.

kdaddy.5431:

you should take staff ele off your list.

I wont name him but a former number 1 solo que player mained staff ele back then and is in the top 60 i believe and is still playing staff ele with a record of like 20-2.

So one single extremely rare (probably the only one) edge case disproves the multitudes of bad staff eles in bronze/silver who know nothing and contribute nothing with staff and random builds? Makes sense.

Glael.7643:

what I encountered today : keeping 3 people busy on close while playing my thief, the others didn’t manage to cap mid in the meantime. gg

If you can keep 3 people busy that probably means they are really terrible, meaning that your teammates are probably pretty terrible as well (to be matched with each other), and seeing as how they couldn’t cap mid, that’s the case.

This is a tell tale sign that you should probably be helping your incompetent team mates. It’s also the extremely tired cry of every bronze/silver (and even lower gold) ranked players who think they’re doing awesome and their team mates are bad but they’re really making bad decisions themselves and can’t see the bigger picture.

This is why you’re in bronze.

How was ele designed for cele stats when cele stats were put into the game after release?

The quitters and afkers have an equal chance to be on the other side as well you know. In fact, I’ve been on the receiving end of it less often.

Tiefsee.3647:

Honest John.4673:

It just uses wins/losses and by how better/worse the other team was you won/lost against. It doesn’t factor in your tops stats at all, if it’s not immediately obvious to out why that’s not a good idea then you’ll have a very hard time trying to understand it.

In case that’s true, you will never beat the system, since i always lost/gained the same amount of points

What do you mean, “in case”? It literally is true, that’s how the glicko algorithm works. Read up on it if you don’t know how it works. And on how to improve if you want a higher rating. I’d feel you have a much better time if you didn’t blame the system and looked to yourself.

It just uses wins/losses and by how better/worse the other team was you won/lost against. It doesn’t factor in your tops stats at all, if it’s not immediately obvious to out why that’s not a good idea then you’ll have a very hard time trying to understand it.

Reaper Alim.4176:

1.) Your skill just don’t matter what so ever, it’s you team’s skill as a whole that does.

2.) ANet allows players with less then 5 hours of total PvP experience into Ranked matches.

3.) ANet allows PvE players to troll Rank and if you just so happened to get caught up in this well, then you just belong in bronze division.

4.) The trust fund babies cough cough sorry I mean the community at the top who was blessed by ANet’s MM during the placement matches was able to achieve their comfortable spots with decent team mates in the higher divison tells other that if they can’t carry a 5 man team match on their backs then they deserved to be rated lower.

5.) There is no PvP balance what so ever. Most matches in the lower tier are dominated by who has to most DHs on their team. Because of the less then 5 hour PvP players on your ranked team that just keeps running to the DHs traps like potatoes just and instantly die like 4 or 6 times in a row. Because they don’t know any better. They don’t care because all they are after are PvE rewards in a PvP mode.

6.) Ranked League rules follows different rules then the ESL games rules.

1. Your skill does matter, the skill of all of your teammates matter in winning the game. It’s a team based game after all. But your so selfish and can only think of yourself that you can’t comprehend that the world doesn’t revolve around you.

2. Didn’t know it took 5 hours to get pvp rank 20 before you could queue ranked. More ignorance on your part, guess I should’t be surprised though.

3. Guess what, those trolls have an equal chance to be on the other team as well. But again, thinking bad things happen only happen to you is another sign of being self-centered.

4. Blessed by ANet? Or the fact that they had the highest MMR to begin with so they got placed higher: (Old rating + 1200)*0.5. But it looks like you’re ignorant of that. Also, plenty of them have jobs or go to school, which is out btw and guess how you’re going to get better, practice and tons of it.

5. Whining about “more DHs win” like it’s a """"rule"""" is yet another sign that you suck. I’ve played on my alt in the lower divisions against teams with more DHs on teams without a support and beat them. I’ve even played against teams that had FIVE Dhs and they could not play their builds, they could not rotate, they could not teamfight, they could not recap their home, they could not couldn’t do anything. All classes have at least one or two working builds that can be fine tuned in various ways. But you can have the best build and still be horrendous at it. If you were actually good you’d know how to beat them and then do so, but you’re not.

6. ESL matches do not use the match maker. Your comparison doesn’t work.

Reaper Alim.4176:

You know what I wish a ANet dev come in here and clear the waters. Because with the amount of kitten ing arguments here. Their silence of these issues speaks volumes to me, and maybe many others.

Evan did come here in the first few days and answered plenty of questions people had, people have been re-asking the same ones and complaining about the same dumb useless things since (basically outing the fact that they’re bad). There’s no need to repeat yourself. But since you seem to have an inability to actually search for the answers yourself I guess you missed all that. You don’t have to have other people insult your intelligence, you do that just fine yourself. Should’ve guessed from your signature you’d be one of the very forum trolls you complain about.

shagwell.1349:

Why are you posting this? Want someone to applaud you or something?

He keeps posting things like this, bragging and humblebragging. Just likes the attention I guess.

You forgot to add that you’re in bronze and there should be more mmr gain for top stats.

Also if you admit that you’re far from the best yet still shouldn’t be placed with “bad teamates” you’d be golden.

Cowboy.5982:

I am to silver 3 ^^

Okay, now try that against the people in the top 25, see how you do

Congrats on stomping pubs in bronze or silver or wherever you are…

It works itself out. If you’ve got people placed in Gold 3 with for real no skill they’ll probably tend to lose their matches against players with real Gold 3 level skill, right? If they continually lose those matches, what do you know, their MMR goes down and they drop lower.

I mean, what did you expect from the pugs on HoD? lol

Cowboy.5982:

When do you think ?

Usually in the shower.

qqmore.net is continually linked when these questions come up.

shion.2084:

I’ve explained why the Gliko is not appropriate to make reasonable matches in a situation where players can play classes that are not the ones they were rated for. I don’t think that anyone would argue the prediction is at all reliably accurate in these circumstances.

I guess I just don’t understand why (apart from the AP example) anyone would swap to a class they are horrible at in. the. first. place.

First you say it should be based off class.

match making should be based on the class their playing to have more accurate results.

Then I tell you they aren’t even using it in the calculation. And for good reason, cause it’s a stupid thing to do. Then you somehow thought that proved your point from the start that they shouldn’t be using glicko in the first place. Then you say it shouldn’t be based off class using the exact same example I gave to you why they don’t use it in the calculation.

You’re a weird one, I’ll give you that.

shion.2084:

Honest John.4673:

shion.2084:

Faux Play.6104:

shion.2084:

Honest John.4673:

shion.2084:

Honest John.4673:

shion.2084:

The problem with algorithms that seem logically reasonable but don’t account for practical reality failings.

If you want to design, code and implement a better algorithm be my guest. But judging from your complete lack of awareness of even the most simple key concepts of ratings and matchmaking you’d get nowhere. ANet didn’t come up with these algorithms, they’ve been industry standard for years, been adapted to multiple team sports and have been improved upon and updated over the years.

But I’m so glad that we have people like you, through your unmatched genius to point out flaws in these systems that the Ph.D’s and statisticians somehow failed to spot. I’m sure Mark Glickman would love to hear your analysis.

I’m sure the Glickman algorithm is fine if you are running all 5 members of your team. I don’t think he’d support it in this instance. I mean just think about it.

Like I literally just said, it can and has been used and adapted to other team based games/sports like LoL, CS:GO, the NFL, etc.

EDIT: Please don’t attack the tone of my argument, use the fallacy fallacy and then do the thing you literally just said didn’t want to happen to you.

And I argue with the adaption. I maintain its reasonable for its intended original purpose of Chess or Go. If the team composition remains mostly consistent such as an NFL team, then you could treat that as one “person” as well. However to apply it to an ever changing grouping of 5 folks whom need not play the class their rating was based on etc. is obviously going to be fraught with problems. Then you add in class stacking. then, then…. you’ll see that these derivations from the original purpose although minor seeming will result in well…. unpredictability.

The fallacy fallacy would be to argue you were wrong in your assertion because you made an ad hominem. I simply indicated that you argued against the wrong point (straw man) and that your ad hominem is not relevant.

So are you arguing that if someone can be competitive at multiple classes they don’t deserver to be ranked higher than someone that is one dimensional?

I’m actually arguing that their skill will likely be different in each of those classes, and the match making should be based on the class their playing to have more accurate results.

I just switched to Rev at the end of blow out games to get the achievements. So I have like a 95% winrate on it with whatever MMR came from that. The system probably thinks I’m a god at rev, it has no other way to tell at the moment. Let’s just say thank god it doesn’t.

I’m not sure that helps the argument that Gliko is a good choice when these player variables exist

They exist, did you miss the part where I said it’s separate? It’s not used in the calculation at all, they just track it.

shion.2084:

Faux Play.6104:

shion.2084:

Honest John.4673:

shion.2084:

Honest John.4673:

shion.2084:

The problem with algorithms that seem logically reasonable but don’t account for practical reality failings.

If you want to design, code and implement a better algorithm be my guest. But judging from your complete lack of awareness of even the most simple key concepts of ratings and matchmaking you’d get nowhere. ANet didn’t come up with these algorithms, they’ve been industry standard for years, been adapted to multiple team sports and have been improved upon and updated over the years.

But I’m so glad that we have people like you, through your unmatched genius to point out flaws in these systems that the Ph.D’s and statisticians somehow failed to spot. I’m sure Mark Glickman would love to hear your analysis.

I’m sure the Glickman algorithm is fine if you are running all 5 members of your team. I don’t think he’d support it in this instance. I mean just think about it.

Like I literally just said, it can and has been used and adapted to other team based games/sports like LoL, CS:GO, the NFL, etc.

EDIT: Please don’t attack the tone of my argument, use the fallacy fallacy and then do the thing you literally just said didn’t want to happen to you.

And I argue with the adaption. I maintain its reasonable for its intended original purpose of Chess or Go. If the team composition remains mostly consistent such as an NFL team, then you could treat that as one “person” as well. However to apply it to an ever changing grouping of 5 folks whom need not play the class their rating was based on etc. is obviously going to be fraught with problems. Then you add in class stacking. then, then…. you’ll see that these derivations from the original purpose although minor seeming will result in well…. unpredictability.

The fallacy fallacy would be to argue you were wrong in your assertion because you made an ad hominem. I simply indicated that you argued against the wrong point (straw man) and that your ad hominem is not relevant.

So are you arguing that if someone can be competitive at multiple classes they don’t deserver to be ranked higher than someone that is one dimensional?

I’m actually arguing that their skill will likely be different in each of those classes, and the match making should be based on the class their playing to have more accurate results.

I just switched to Rev at the end of blow out games to get the achievements. So I have like a 95% winrate on it with whatever MMR came from that. The system probably thinks I’m a god at rev, it has no other way to tell at the moment. Let’s just say thank god it doesn’t.

Now, if you want to argue they should keep track of which class you spent most of the time in the match on then you could reasonably die 8 times and switch classes after every death and that adds too much more unpredictability which we don’t want.

shion.2084:

Honest John.4673:

shion.2084:

Honest John.4673:

shion.2084:

The problem with algorithms that seem logically reasonable but don’t account for practical reality failings.

If you want to design, code and implement a better algorithm be my guest. But judging from your complete lack of awareness of even the most simple key concepts of ratings and matchmaking you’d get nowhere. ANet didn’t come up with these algorithms, they’ve been industry standard for years, been adapted to multiple team sports and have been improved upon and updated over the years.

But I’m so glad that we have people like you, through your unmatched genius to point out flaws in these systems that the Ph.D’s and statisticians somehow failed to spot. I’m sure Mark Glickman would love to hear your analysis.

I’m sure the Glickman algorithm is fine if you are running all 5 members of your team. I don’t think he’d support it in this instance. I mean just think about it.

Like I literally just said, it can and has been used and adapted to other team based games/sports like LoL, CS:GO, the NFL, etc.

EDIT: Please don’t attack the tone of my argument, use the fallacy fallacy and then do the thing you literally just said didn’t want to happen to you.

And I argue with the adaption. I maintain its reasonable for its intended original purpose of Chess or Go. If the team composition remains mostly consistent such as an NFL team, then you could treat that as one “person” as well. However to apply it to an ever changing grouping of 5 folks whom need not play the class their rating was based on etc. is obviously going to be fraught with problems. Then you add in class stacking. then, then…. you’ll see that these derivations from the original purpose although minor seeming will result in well…. unpredictability.

Starting NFL lineups change all the time through injuries, trades, and throughout the game as you give non-starters snaps.

CS:GO is a team game as well. As is League.

If people don’t adapt before match start to get a better comp, they’re likely not doing everything in their power to win anyway, and you can see how that plays out. At the higher levels people switch all the time. Class MMR has been separate for a long time as well. Maybe you multi classed for your overall MMR.

You still haven’t come up with a better system.

shion.2084:

Honest John.4673:

shion.2084:

The problem with algorithms that seem logically reasonable but don’t account for practical reality failings.

If you want to design, code and implement a better algorithm be my guest. But judging from your complete lack of awareness of even the most simple key concepts of ratings and matchmaking you’d get nowhere. ANet didn’t come up with these algorithms, they’ve been industry standard for years, been adapted to multiple team sports and have been improved upon and updated over the years.

But I’m so glad that we have people like you, through your unmatched genius to point out flaws in these systems that the Ph.D’s and statisticians somehow failed to spot. I’m sure Mark Glickman would love to hear your analysis.

I’m sure the Glickman algorithm is fine if you are running all 5 members of your team. I don’t think he’d support it in this instance. I mean just think about it.

Like I literally just said, it can and has been used and adapted to other team based games/sports like LoL, CS:GO, the NFL, etc.

EDIT: Please don’t attack the tone of my argument, use the fallacy fallacy and then do the thing you literally just said didn’t want to happen to you.

shion.2084:

The problem with algorithms that seem logically reasonable but don’t account for practical reality failings.

If you want to design, code and implement a better algorithm be my guest. But judging from your complete lack of awareness of even the most simple key concepts of ratings and matchmaking you’d get nowhere. ANet didn’t come up with these algorithms, they’ve been industry standard for years, been adapted to multiple team sports and have been improved upon and updated over the years.

But I’m so glad that we have people like you, through your unmatched genius to point out flaws in these systems that the Ph.D’s and statisticians somehow failed to spot. I’m sure Mark Glickman would love to hear your analysis.

Ruru.1302:

95%? you like pulling stats out of nowhere?

she has access to special insider information, dontcha know

that or asked 2 friends and saw 2 people complaining in mapchat and got confirmation bias

Israel.7056:

The problem here seems to be that they don’t have a proper system for analyzing the individual worth of each player on each team on a game by game basis.

Because that changes literally on a game by game basis. Sometimes I play worse and mess up a few times one game then the next make almost no mistakes. One game you could be thought of as a god the next ridiculed as if you just entered pvp. There’s no way to reliably tell.

Israel.7056:

Neither do they have a good system for recognizing the key factors for victory or loss for any given game.

This is different for literally every game as well. It could be a condition tick on Chieftain or a CC skill shoving someone off a point to decap at the last second. It starts getting really hairy really fast.

Israel.7056:

So they’re basically just tallying wins and losses and assuming that a win meant everyone on the winning team was better than everyone on the losing team and that’s it. This is leading to erroneous rankings which is leading to terrible matches.

It’s like no one here understands the concept of Occam’s Razor and wants to add a truck load of statistics and factors that they think will work and be useful, on the surface, but do they ever wonder how well it’d work out in practice?

I’d just love to see all your faces when you get wildly erratic matches and mmr gains/losses with a system that uses a million variables that try to do it all and keep track of everything at once. Guess what, ANet has admitted to doing that, and guess what, they admitted it doesn’t work.

These armchair mathematicians get so tiresome.

Code me an algortithm that objectively quantifies skill as it pertains to winning matches and post it on github or wherever then you can taken seriously.

Force sigil is better damage over time as in it averages out to more. But what you really want is burst damage and Air is better for that, unless you’re going for sustained teamfights which you shouldn’t be cause you’re… you know, a thief.

We’re basically trying to teach math/algorithms to people who hate math.

Gwaihir.1745:

Evans remarks are getting unprofessional. It’s fine for us but when it’s your job it’s not ok.

Yeah, technically we’re his customers but in the end we’re both players of the game. And I would much rather be treated like a fellow player than a customer.

The fact that your previous MMR is factored into the soft reset, which we know to be:

(Previous MMR + 1200) * 0.5 = New MMR. From there on you do your placement matches and then you get to see it.

You have to have amazing MMR before hand.

You have to win every one of your 10 placement matches.

If you’re doing this with another pro player (and since you had pro-level mmr before) you’ll likely be placed in matchups against other pro-level players which means it’ll be much harder.

Xca.9721:

I just had a game where a druid was standing the whole game on temple mid on an upper position and pressing those longbow skills.. He didnt even move once. I am pretty sick of losing games like that, just cause some pve plebs want that ascended gear. I mean its nice that we got more players in pvp but this isnt the kittening jungle wurm where u have to stand still and press random buttons..

Why can people who never played pvp before instantly hop into ranked? Wouldnt it be better if they had to play a certain amount of unranked games so they get some experience?

You already have to be pvp rank 20 to even queue for ranked. It being higher could be a way to weed out these types of players, though they do seem to be the type of players who would also farm custom arenas for dailies and get it there albeit very slowly.

Khisanth.2948:

Gaile Gray.6029:

Honest John.4673:

I have the feeling Evan has a lot of job security right about now. This is a good thing, he’s like the anti-Gaile Gray

Hey! Wait a minute — what does that even mean!?

~engages in rage typing~

It means you didn’t just write some very badly mangled code that nobody else in the company could decipher. At least that is the typical meaning of “job security” that I’ve encountered …

No it just means we’re free to have a lively back and forth discussion without worrying we’re gonna offend each other. One with transparency that fosters trust instead of turning our nose-in-the air and squelching discussion that isn’t carebear and makes everyone feel special. Basically, never seen a dev throw so many sick burns and get away with it

Malediktus.3740:

Evan Lesh.3295:

Soft reset: (Previous Rating + 1200) * 0.5
However, everyone’s deviation got reset, so your still move up and down a lot from this new rating.

Why even include the old rating? Since higher MMR was detrimental (higher queue times, harder to earn pips) a lot of people did not care if MMR was low.

So that the esl players would have less of a chance to match up against people who bought the game last month. It would have been much more chaotic with that approach.

Ithilwen.1529:

I didn’t say grind. What I said was that playing a minimal number of games doesn’t risk dropping anywhere near as much as a person playing regularly. It’s an exploit.

The leader board should consider win percentage AND number of games played.

An exploit is the misuse of a software feature or bug in a way that allows a player to generate in-game benefits without the risk or time expected by the game’s designers.

There is no loophole in the design of decay or with the way leader boards are set up that anyone is taking advantage of.

They still have to play games to remain there, at minimum 1 every 3 days and unless they win (the majority of) those games they’ll drop.

Your skill rating is based off your previous MMR. If you’re good enough to get that high a skill rating after going 9-1 you likely had a pretty kitten good MMR to begin with plus you were likely going up against the same competition you played previously. This person has to play a bare minimum of 18 more games throughout the remainder of the season (52 days) to stave off decay. See if they drop, with more games played.