Guild Wars 2

messiah.1908:

Hype.8032:

No offense intended, but I’m pretty sure a necro will put out more condi pressure while still being able to support the group better. I didn’t really see anything that a power based thief couldn’t do better. It’s people like you that will find the next hot build so props for trying new things.

thanks
condition necro can put conditions pressure on certain point on the field.
why group dont like so much condition player? because smart group will cleanse them fast with null fields etc. condition SB thief can spam fields which enable him to counter the cleanse fast
condition necro can do poison field every 20 seconds with chilblains at certain area while thief can spam 2-3 areas which are also larger (if i am not mistaken)
also the same goes for bleeding (necro can do short “burst” but with larger cooldown only to 5 ppl as thief will do 1-3 stacks but with larger area and ppl (more than 5)
i dont say thief can replace necro (necro place in group is more important) but venom thief can add so much if already in a 20 men group has 3 necos than a 4th necro

as i mention a power base thief can do great job taking out fast the backline. what i was trying to fill is the time between bursting the backline and supporting your group
as power thief need to burst->stealth->regen health/initiative for his next burst or run if he feels pressured, while venom thief can do the same putting target down/low on health for other to finish and go back to share his venom with his group and dont need to run if he feels pressured
so while power thief can take lets say 4 backline, venom share thief can do the same and give something else to his group. while fighting i know its important to neutralize your enemy fast but also getting them to run away or disengage the fight can accomplish the same. and with venoms your enemy will run away and wont concentrate on attacking your group

thanks for the feedback

Good points messiah, I guess I’m just programmed to think of a group kitten people, not 20 like you said. WvW crashes on my PC too much for me to spend much time there anymore so I think about smaller teams now

No offense intended, but I’m pretty sure a necro will put out more condi pressure while still being able to support the group better. I didn’t really see anything that a power based thief couldn’t do better. It’s people like you that will find the next hot build so props for trying new things.

If initiative management is good enough then maybe s/d can re-roll to 25/30/0/15/0. Taking practiced tolerance will get your hp to about the same level as before and you’ll have ~12% higher dps with that setup. If it doesn’t work then you’re back to a less effective 10/30/0/30/0. I still think s/d needs 15 into acro… going 30 into trickery is more of a s/p or d/p build. Utilities will probably be inf signet, shadow step, shadow refuge. I already play with 2 stunbreaks…. might have to replace SR with a 3rd.

woutterr.5974:

Steal warriors axe skill, immobilize them, turn them into stone, pop their own axe skill bam, 10-15k damage.

Then see how the warrior responds to that.

This discussion is not about Anet, this discussion is how I am going to adapt to the change, since I still want to play my sword dagger thief. Please get back on topic.

Huh? If I land the whole warrior stolen skill on the warrior in spvp it’ll top out at about 5k…. WTB 10k-15k plz. That whirl skill is good to force them out of bow (for a whopping 5 seconds) or to punish the stupid ones that keep on attacking into you. Using it without blinding powder beneath you or a quick stunbreak ready is asking for trouble.

I had to go look up signet of spite to see what it did. That alone shows how often it lands successfully on me. I’m probably 50% win rate vs necros on d/p and above that with the current s/d spec (all spvp). So post patch I guess I’ll be at 50% thanks to s/d going bye bye.

I’m all for nerfing warriors, we all know they need it. However, this test only proves that you wasted your time. Sorry…

Incurafy.6329:

Nema Tode.5637:

That being said, I shall begin by saying we’re getting MORE initiative overtime.
Also, in these “many traits” that increase initiative, only 3 are getting nerfed, which are signet use, quick recovery, and kleptomaniac, none of which are involved in the mainstream builds.

Uhh, actually Signet Use is featured in both of our currently viable tPvP builds, Quick Recovery in one, and Kleptomaniac in the other. Please don’t talk about things that you don’t know anything about.

I take extra health over signet use on d/p but you’re right that between the 2 builds, all those traits are taken typically.

Sons.5493:

I actually look forward to 10th, my build is pretty much untouched and only buffed

That’s a pretty weak mindset. They aren’t nerfing my build so screw everyone else.

Asuka Shikinami.5462:

oZii.2864:

Zenith.7301:

Phent.9350:

PU build is good only for WvW roaming, in pvp it is troll build nothing more

Not even for roaming. Roaming classes need to be able to kill quickly before someone else interferes or the zerg arrives. PU mesmers kill slowly.

The spec is just a bunker survival spec. It’s hard for you to die, but you also won’t be killing much if the opponent wants to retreat.

PU mesmer can’t chase at all.

Dueling build fits better I think. We probably all seen it in WvW you know the lone mesmer sitting around ruins like he is afk waiting for people to engage him.

I just ignore them and chuckles when they are chasing you spamming winds of chaos like it’s gonna hit anybody moving.

I hate you Sin.

Hype.8032:

Funny how chaining 5+ stealth abilities in quick succession isn’t considered spamming stealth

Utility:
Decoy (40s CD)
Viel (90s CD)
Mass Invis (elite) (90s CD)

Weapon
Torch 4 (30/24s CD)

At most Mesmers have 4 stealth skills, which using all 4 means you blew your elite, two utility skill and have to have a torch equipped – which means the phantasm you take is pathetically weak. Also those utility skills won’t be back up for a long time. As this isn’t likely in phantasm builds, I can’t see people doing this unless they need to escape (which other classes can do without having to blow so much, hi GS warriors) or if they have 3 staff clones up and are trolling, which is easy to deal with.

The only addition is a trait which makes you stealth on 25% health, but taking that means your giving up something actually useful, also it suffers from the same problem as thieves Last Refuge (ie you can’t control it and can accidentally proc revealed).

Right, and with all those abilities to stealth you’re essentially making a phantasm, dodging once or twice, stealthing, and repeating. It is spamming stealth.. the whole point is to stay visible as little as possible. I’m not passing judgement on it being OP or UP but it’s a incredibly lame way to play. No worse than MM necros , stealth spam thieves, and spirit rangers but is it really much of a consolation to say you’re no worse than that garbage?

Divinity.8041:

This is what soloq is right now. I prefer the old way. I hate starting a match seeing 3 of my teammates in STARTER gear.

What happens at the end?

A lvl 1 who scored 5 points the whole match (?)
A lvl 3 who scored 10 points
A lvl 9 who scored 20 points

Can you stop this? Please make the entry to PVP much lower for newer players, or put a rank limit on it.

Less than 15-20 cannot enter?

Try queuing during the busy hours. Also, are you ranked pretty high? I’ve heard some bad things from people in the lower rungs of the ladder but I haven’t seen it up at the top. For example, I think I was the lowest level/rank at 37 in my last match.

Vanthian.9267:

People who complain about things such as this will be this games downfall. How many different threads are there claiming that Warriors are OP?

It is a true tell-tell sign of a games fall when a class finally gets balanced into some form of mediocrity in comparison to the other profession then having the lowest common denominator decide that it is now OP.

The Warrior is fine in its current state. You just need to learn to dodge, use stun breakers and stop just auto attacking. You will not be able to auto attack a Warrior to death anymore and for that you should be grateful. It actually takes skill to beat a skillful Warrior, imagine that!

If you are going to complain about something, complain about the things that need to be changed to get the game in a position to actually be considered a PvP game.

Address your AI issues, Stealth issues, Spamming issues, Perma Vigor issues, different forms of PvP instead of all conquest,… etc, etc…

The list goes on and on, but you are stuck on something that needs no change.

A decent Mesmer will still wreck any Warrior (sadly, I haven’t seen a decent Mesmer in this game since December). Same for Ranger, Guardian and Engineer.

It is sad and pathetic to see this thread in the Spvp section and clearly shows how low the skill level has fallen in this game. I would have expected something like this in the PvE section (for example: calling hundred blades absurd… seriously?).

I was getting a chuckle at your satire until I realized you were being serious.

Funny how chaining 5+ stealth abilities in quick succession isn’t considered spamming stealth

Short bow works with condition builds because as a thief you’re either in a fight or you’re out. If you suddenly decide you need to be out then there is no better weapon than short bow to take you out.

Feeding trolls just makes them come back for more. In Alaska the same saying goes for moose. It appears trolls and moose have more in common than I originally thought. I hope this post is helpful in some way.

Cheers!

Oghier.7419:

Thieves will remain viable for many things, even if they’re not optimal for any.

In the context of balance (spvp), if a profession can’t fill any roll better than others then it isn’t viable. Viable means that a top team would be willing to take someone running that build. At least that’s my definition of viable in this game

kbenton.4915:

No really. Thank you. I see a lot of you in wvw and this helps me realize you know what you are doing in your choices to balance classes. I’ve played a thief since launch, and it is still my only level 80. I absolutely love how it plays.

Thank you for nerfing the cheesy builds, since, well, they all deserved it during their time. D/p perma stealth build is by far the worst of them and you guys decided to finally change it which will cause people to think thieves are bad now (not just thief players). This is incredible because the ceiling to play a thief well has just been raised, and a lot of the people that play d/p will realize their “skill” wasn’t too great after all. Since a lot of people will still undoubtedly see these players still running around on their thieves, and start doing much better against them I thank you. You have opened up my build and people will underestimate the better played thieves., thus creating more victories for them.

To d/p players. All is not lost. Thief is a great class with many more viable specs than you might think. We are not a face roll glass cannon class but more a war of attrition class now, especially with initiative as our source, and not cool downs. We should be able to out last opponents with grace, positioning, and spending unitive wisely. I look forward to the patch, and hope everyone else does too.

Did p/d just call d/p faceroll? Sorry but that’s kittening funny. P/D is the ultimate in cheesy-trollness and I’ll still be able to smash that build easily post patch. Maybe someday p/d will have a high skill ceiling but Dec 10th won’t be that day.

Dagger mainhand builds will still work fine post patch but all the other builds aren’t really worth using. 10/30/30/0/0, 10/30/0/0/30, 0/30/30/10/0, 25/30/0/0/15 are all fine. People will be dropping stuns left and right on sword users…. I’m not confident we can adapt on s/d and s/p. Maybe we can all trolololol with 10/0/0/30/30 double d/d db spam… we might be able to get infinite db’s now…. maybe Anet wants us to be unicorn trolls? They must want that!

Shadowscamp.8065:

I’d say D/P to compliment P/D for the escape power, but that’s getting nerfed, so I’d say Shortbow. The poison field’s nice since you don’t have that much poison uptime, which is important for condi pressure. Also, decent escape with #5.

In regards to armor, I’d stick with Dire. I tried Rabid, but you lose too much health for mediocre crits, and I personally don’t like Carrion because of the lack of toughness. The idea is attrition, not killing power. I think that’s what P/D excels at, because it doesn’t do much direct damage at all.

Condi thief already kills too slowly for my liking so I’ll never recommend dire. If you like being more tanky and can accept that more fights will be stalemates then it’s a reasonable choice however. Carrion > rabid for thieves if you’re debating those.

I still think carrion is the best. You only want to be in melee range when you’re trying to cnd, otherwise you’re staying at mid range and dodging the big attacks coming to you. If you’re building something close to 0/0/30/20/20 then you’ll have perma vigor infinite dodges so use them early and often. Condi thief doesn’t have much damage but it is really tanky to compensate. Whenever you stealth wait until the last second to use sneak attack so you can get the full heal/condi cleanse.

Use d/d or shortbow to compliment p/d. If you use d/d you can still get cnd’s to help with stomps, you can use heartseeker to run away, and #3 deathblossom is good against clumped enemies. If you use shortbow you’ll have #5 to run away and increase your roaming speed. You can use the poison #4 while stealthed and not lose stealth. You can also detonate clusterbomb (#2) midair to get 3 bleed stacks on opponents. Both are good, it’s just personal preference.

When running p/d just get the routine down of auto attacking twice, cnd, sneak shot, 2 auto attacks, cnd, sneak shot, repeat repeat repeat. You can get 2 auto attacks in wvw and pve before revealed is gone. If you want to get more fancy after you master that rotation then stay close after cnd, use sneak attack point blank then #3 to apply torment and back off. Follow that with 2 autos and go for another cnd.

I’ll still play thief. I’m almost going to make it a personal mission to see if I can make a new s/d build that’s viable in solo queue. The initiative changes will at least make it so we can roam faster using shortbow or heartseeker. In combat init regen isn’t getting improved but out of combat is seeing a nice increase.

I absolutely hate how strong bunkers are in this game. I was with another thief attacking an engi on an outer point and we couldn’t kill him. I was rank 40 solo queue last week and I couldn’t take a bunker down with another person helping. I’ll let Anet decide if any particular build is OP or not but after that fight I was feeling frustration and disbelief.

Oghier.7419:

Lifeson.4352:

Step 1: get 2 berserker daggers and a berserker shortbow. Get some standard sigils like force and air or whatever.
Step 2: go to the mists and practice hitting number 5 with the dagger on moving golems
Step 3: get some semi tanky gear like cavalier and valkyrie, giving you high crit dmg while maintaining some survivability, get superior runes of speed
Step 4: spec x/30/30/x/x with hidden killer, 2 ini back on stealth, condi removal in stealth, heal in stealth
Step 5: equip shadowstep, shadow refuge, blinding powder

And that’s about it. You’re now an unkillable roaming machine, atleast untill the december patch.

That’s not a bad summary The bit about learning how to time Cloak and Dagger on a moving target is particularly important. When I started a thief, that was a huge difference-maker once I got it down. Timing it with Steal is the next step after that.

As for the December patch, doesn’t that build get buffed a bit? It’s how I run, and when I think through a typical attack pattern, the buff to base initiative should outweigh the nerf to opportunist.

D/D is one of the few viable thief builds that does not get squashed on 12/10.

D/D is probably seeing a small buff. Everyone can feel free to disagree with me but d/d is not a good 1v1 set against a skilled opponent. It shines when fighting 1vx against bad opponents. That’s why yishi uses it in his videos. Having a lot of clueless people to CnD off of is what d/d really needs to be effective. A good opponent will dodge cnd and you’ll need a better gap closer than heartseeker as well. D/P doesn’t suffer from either of those flaws but you won’t see it being as effective 1v3.

Thedenofsin.7340:

Nice match. Good example of how hard a counter thieves are to mesmers.

Lucky for you that s/d is getting gutted then eh? Misha won about half the engagements against sizer anyways.

I wonder if my asura will look all awkward being full size haha. The low hanging fruit they should really be focusing on is just tweaking numbers till each weapon set is viable in spvp. A lot of skill need total revision but get the sets working first off. For example, thief is dropping from 2 to 1 viable build post patch; this is not the right direction Anet.

Chokolata.1870:

Stealth is overpowered . Too many benefits at no cost . Too much of it . Thieves depend on stealth so much that it makes them an eccentric class . Either very OP or useless , it is a fine line . I personally hate how they can reset fights , especially in WvW

I’m not a fan of stealth either but I’ve got to point out misinformation when I see it. Which stealth skill has no cost? Weapon based skills cost initiative and the heal/utilities have cooldowns. Stealth is a liability in spvp. This is a spvp forum, not wvw. Being built around stealth and not being able to use it while fighting on a point is bad design.

Thedenofsin.7340:

Hype.8032:

I’m sure other people posted it already but you know the initiative changes for thief is pretty much a wash if not a slight nerf don’t you? Sorry but not knowing this shows you’re unqualified to pass judgement on this subject. Mesmer is getting buffed and thief is only seeing nerfs, what are you complaining about again?

This is untrue. Initiative buff is across the board, meaning all thief builds will see the benefit. Only certain builds are getting slightly nerfed.

Also, you assert you know thieves are getting nerfed overall as though it was a fact. However, you do not know this: you are speculating. I don’t believe you are qualified to pass judgement in this matter if you are not sufficiently qualified to differentiate between speculation and fact.

The only builds that are viable now and will be viable after the patch put 30 points into CS. THEREFOR there is no buff to initiative regen due to the big nerf to opportunist. Anyone talking about the initiative changes to thief should know that. There are further nerfs such as the trait that gives 2 initiative on signet use going to 1 and 2 per 10 sec going to 1/10. I am not speculating, you are just not thinking critically.

EDIT: Let’s continue this a bit further. S/D is widely viewed as the most viable thief spec in spvp. S/D is getting nerfed from several different angles: IR cast time, nerf to acro vigor traits, losing trait effectiveness that add initiative (more than makes up for the 33% passive init gain). Ready to follow logic? If S/D is currently the best spec and it is getting nerfed, then thief as a whole is becoming less viable unless another build is coming to replace it. If you can think up a new top thief build I’d be happy to listen to you talk about it.

Fortus.6175:

Scarlett.1549:

Backstabs hit glass mesmers for 10k+, add cloak dagger 4k, steal and lightning proc, on a mesmer using berserker ammy, mesmer is down INSTANTLY. That mean’s no time to blink away, no time to even wipe your butt! And it is the backstab builds which are getting buffed.

What mesmers can do is NOTHING in comparison to the burst dps a thief does.

It is without a doubt the theif is the apex predator for our roll.

Pretty much this. I have been saying it for ages, and it will become even clearer as time goes on and the thieves get this 33% initiative buff; prepare for massive bursts (they already have it with those 8k-10k backstabs followed by 4-5k HS or other spells every 4 seconds) and easy disengages. As we move away from condition builds and bunkers (which both use tanky stats since traits and amulets have toughness and vitality) we will see the raise of these “not-so-hidden” overpowered Power-Burst-disengage-at-will-and-engage-at-will thieves.

I can see it coming miles away, we are power-creeping too much, specially these classes which may appear as “unpopular” to some. Thieves are not as bad as bad players make it seem, they have one of the highest survavility in the game if they can press more than to fingers due two easy access to the highest amount of untargetted teleports and uncounterable stealth, which is only getting buffed next patch.

Like I said previously, backstab needs to be toned down, HS needs to be toned down, thieves need other ways of survival that do not involve grieving matches with stealth. Power creep needs to stop.

What power-creep? what thief skills do more damage than they did at launch? Backstab? Heartseeker? Mug? Autoattack? Thieves are getting less initiative gain than they used to, how is getting nerfed considered power creep? Learn about the class you’re bashing so hard and people will take you more seriously.

Thedenofsin.7340:

Jonathan Sharp said:

Oh, also, the reason we can’t give Necro’s too much disengage has to do with the point of “purity of purpose”.
In this game, we want to allow classes the ability to deal with all situations but in
different ways. But, if we give all classes all TOOLS (which is a different thing), then
players get confused as to which classes fill which roles, and in what way they fill those roles.
Example: In PvP, the Necro and Engi both vie for the position of condition pressure. The engineer has more physical alternatives, the Necro has more boon/condition manipulation, the Engi has more escapability, and the Necro is a little squishier. If we gave the Necro too much mobility or escapability, then all of a sudden their “tools” start to line up exactly. If this is the case, one of them will simply be better than the other, as far as efficacy goes, and thus, one will push the other out of the meta for that “role” on the team. This class would then be the “apex” predator for that role. So, in order to prevent this, we try to make it so that the classes don’t have all their tools overlap perfectly.

I assert thieves are the current Apex predator for their role.

Mesmers and thieves (and elementalists) all vie for the role of support/burst DPS and roamer. That role requires quick burst damage, high mobility both in and out of combat, and good escape mechanisms. When looking at these roles:
* thieves have the better burst
* thieves have the better mobility both in and out of combat
* thieves have the better escape mechanisms

There are other factors which play into selecting which profession to bring, including: group healing, group buffs, group utility, survivability/tankiness. Neither bring anything substantial to the table in terms of group healing. Mesmers can bring aoe stability, but the range is so limited (240m) it’s hardly useful to the team. Mesmers bring Time Warp which is very useful. The ability for a thief to access stealth so easily gives thieves far better survivability than a mesmer can achieve. In terms of group utility, thieves get Shadow Refuge, which they can use both offensively to zerg strike and defensively to heal. This single thief utility is the functional equivalent of the Mesmer’s Veil, Mass Invisibility, and Illusion of Life, rolled into a single ability, and on a far shorter cooldown…and it’s an AoE heal and a dark combo field.

And, on top of this, thieves are a hard counter for Mesmers.

Many months ago, one could argue that Time Warp and Portal were the big differentiators in bringing mesmers instead of thieves. However, Time Warp lost 50% of its effectiveness and thieves were given their own, personal, invisible Portal, on a much shorter cooldown. Then mesmers were nerfed (Blurred Frenzy, Temporal Curtain, Chaos Armor, etc.).

The upcoming December 10 patches are providing some modest buffs to the Mesmer profession, a huge buff to the thief profession (substantial initiative regen), and a slight nerf to thief vigor. In terms of the ‘viable’ professions listed by the developers (shatter, Mantra and Phantasm), I don’t see any changes substantial enough to differentiate thieves from mesmers.

As of today it appears that the only thing Mesmers uniquely bring is Time Warp.

Perhaps I am missing something. How has ArenaNet not buffed thieves to the point of being the Apex Predator profession that they have been so worried about creating?

I’m sure other people posted it already but you know the initiative changes for thief is pretty much a wash if not a slight nerf don’t you? Sorry but not knowing this shows you’re unqualified to pass judgement on this subject. Mesmer is getting buffed and thief is only seeing nerfs, what are you complaining about again?

Good comments Jumper. I’ve always supported LS doing less damage but keeping the 2 boons stolen. I think IR could be changed in several different ways rather than this absurd cast time. One way is how you suggested. Another is to reduce the return range or reduce the time that it remains available. Your suggestion is probably the best though… just make it a larger investment to use it so more thought is put into when to press 2.

I don’t play sword very often but I have enjoyed it on occasion. Even though I rarely play it I fought pretty hard when the patch notes were released because it was pretty obvious it was limiting build diversity. One viable build here we come!

Dekk.3459:

You all do realize they were only taking suggestions for a week right?

This post should have been locked over a week ago.

Read more closely friend, they intentionally left all these threads open

Why the hell would you want to nerf burst further?

D/P works great now and it’ll still be great after the patch. Sword builds are going to be quite a bit worse, mainhand pistol is still crap for everything besides trolling imo.

Qaelyn.7612:

After having just really tried my thief out in PvP for the first time, I’ll tell you what the thief meta is…

kitten ed good players.

I mean, I was absolutely useless even against a very new player on a warrior. He smoked me. And I know it is 99% because of my own lack of skill and experience.

When I see those videos of thieves in WvW killing 1v3s, I am now in awe.

Thief used to be considered a faceroll class (plenty bads still think it is). I hate nerfs but they’ve allowed people finally giving credit to good thieves.

sierras.6297:

You are not bad by any means. Why you didn’t scratch him is curious to me, but it was probably the fact he had rejuvenation signet in and you got killed before you could land 3 solid attacks. You just turned 80 so it is not a surprise you died to a warrior, and if you face a guardian, well, those are harder IMO.

I’m sure it is different for everyone but I find guardians easier than warriors. I’ll either kill a guardian or I won’t but I’m never in much danger. A warrior can be unkillable and still have massive dps that is fairly easy to land.

EDIT: except for the trolololol dps guards that 1 hit KO you when you’re not expecting it

It’ll take a long while but eventually warrior will be nerfed down hard enough to be level with everyone else. They all seem to be running some form of the healing signet godmode build. Can’t dent their health 1v1… but it’s fair right anet?

Narcarsis.5739:

Use Ogre runes. Rock dog will keep the other player in combat. If you do it properly you can stealth out, reset, and reenter before they get ooc as well. Sneaky sneaky.

Caed start streaming again!

Did no one read the original post? The idea was to allow stealthed characters to contest at a reduced effectiveness. All the talk about a perma stealth thief contesting indefinitely would be completely impossible. It’d only add a few seconds that thieves and mesmers could hold on to a cap before letting it neutralize. I even said ‘partially’ in the title of the thread.

Deathspike.1870:

knbBlackTemplar.3059:

0/30/30/10/0, and i don’t see how 1k more hp can save me. Only way to survive i see – is do not take damage at all

Because it opens the possibility to recover from mistakes. Everyone will make mistakes, but the difference between other professions and a thief is that a thief is punished brutally for it (usually resulting in death). I mix Berserker/Valkyrie/Soldier to attain 50% critical rate, 102% critical damage, 16K HP and 2.5K armor. It works well for me.

Check your stats OP. This guy has great offense and enough defensive stats to stay in a fight long enough to win. Thieves in spvp don’t have the luxury of having both but in WvW you can have it all! In WvW I used to shoot for at least 15k hp and 2.4k armor but more is exponentially stronger when you’re new. Lately I’ve been running with around 14k hp and 2.1 armor 10/30/0/0/30 but it’s not a novice setup by any stretch.

Bsgapollo.5364:

So they recently nerfed that invulnerability wouldn’t provide anything to the capture point contribution. Yet here you are asking that stealth should have some what an effect on what’s 10 times stronger and more spammable then invul will ever be. Okay, seems reasonable..

This is probably the first well reasoned argument against so +1

Zenith.7301:

A class worse than thief at contesting points? Are you serious? You have tons of great 1v1 match ups. If anything you’re one of the classes that can force the diversion of manpower.

Yes, I am serious. Take a thief defending a point against say a far point assaulter… an engi or warrior perhaps. What class would hold the point for less time than a thief in that scenario?

Deimos Tel Arin.7391:

Hype.8032:

It’s no wonder thieves get nerfed every patch.

other professions besides thieves get nerfed too, in every patch. not just thieves. the universe does not rotates around thieves.

The blatant hate for this profession is astounding.

not true. most people are hating warriors are the moment.

Not a single person has said a single thing to show how this would be unfair or overpowered.

characters in stealth cannot be targeted directly and one would need to use area attacks to attempt to attack them. this in itself is unfair and overpowered, even if your suggested methods is implemented.

People just want thieves to be free kills or not played at all. I still welcome any well reasoned arguments either for or against something like this.

not really. good thieves are not free kills and are still actively played.

Warriors are hated because they are overpowered and too easy to play well. Thieves are hated because people don’t enjoy fighting against stealth and high evades. Personally, I play thief with a lot of blinds and interrupts but I know that’s just as hated as everything else.

You misread the last quoted item. I said people want thieves to be free kills, I didn’t say they currently are. You were probably right in a previous post though. I doubt something like this will be implemented, but I think it would be balanced and fair so I’m suggesting it regardless.

Zanryu.3417:

Acandis.3250:

You are either ignorant or plain stupid. Thieves already have more evades than most other classes and, NEWSFLASH, when you’re in evade frames you’re contesting.

You can actually keep a dodging thief targeted. You aren’t wasting things HOPING they hit, you can let them finish their dodge and go for the attack or bait their dodges. When in stealth you can’t bait anything.

There’s a massive difference between stealth and dodge. Oh, and every class has access to dodges. Granted they don’t have access to dodge skills, but they can all dodge.

Hype.8032:

Any other class can completely contest a point, why can’t thieves? Slowing down a cap isn’t stopping it from happening, it just lets a profession use a function and whole traitline that it was designed around.

Since when can thieves not contest points?

This could be good to discuss. In your estimation, is there any class that is worse than thief at contesting a point? I’m interested in your opinion.

At worse something like this would just slightly delay a point turnover but I think it’d make things more fair and give time for re-enforcements to arrive. I know stealth is a generally hated mechanic but this would make balance better even if it isn’t popular.

It’s no wonder thieves get nerfed every patch. The blatant hate for this profession is astounding. Not a single person has said a single thing to show how this would be unfair or overpowered. People just want thieves to be free kills or not played at all. I still welcome any well reasoned arguments either for or against something like this.

Zanryu.3417:

Hype.8032:

He didn’t even read the original post Forz. My suggestion is to offer LIMITED capability to contest while stealthed. Maybe this should only apply for the small outer points? I could see this being too easily cheesed at the extra large points.

Some logic, I disagree so I didn’t read it. Not everyone will agree with your post, and I fall into that category. Being able to contribute to a point while being un-targetable and passively able to resist a fair amount of damage due to being unable to be seen seems a tad much. Just imagine a thief or two pressuring one or two people on point while slowing down their cap progress.

Any other class can completely contest a point, why can’t thieves? Slowing down a cap isn’t stopping it from happening, it just lets a profession use a function and whole traitline that it was designed around.

brannigan.9810:

One of the dumbest ideas ever.

Read the OP dude

Deimos Tel Arin.7391:

you wanna contest a point, you fight like a man, not stealth like a kitten.

You don’t understand how thieves work do you? 2/10 for the troll friend.

Alissah.9281:

Hype.8032:

Alissah.9281:

Cynz.9437:

i am a thief…what is stability?

You know, that thing you get for 5 seconds when you apply Basilisk Venom or Consume Ectoplasm from a Mesmer?

You realize that requires a specific set of runes to get stability from BV right? Why don’t you mention breaking dagger storm early as well? None of these are viable/reliable methods.

As far as I can tell, 80% of the thieves I meet use lyssa runes :/.

And I didnt really think of dagger storm, but its rarely used anyway.

Lyssa doesn’t really work well with dagger mainhand builds and S/D is pretty much going away next patch. I assume you don’t think it viable to require an enemy mesmer to get stability

Zero Day.2594:

Travlane.5948:

salty. if you think regen is better than init traits/skills than you really should think a lil harder. even if you had 1.5 init per second its not as useful as having initiative gain skills/traits bc u need them on command to finish enemies or escape or to go stealthed. having initiative on command is a NECCESSITY for thief. not a luxury.

Isn’t that one of their reasons for nerfing, the fact that it’s a “necessity” to be using skills/traits that give init. You know if they nerf them so much that it’s relatively useless to take those skills/traits… then we don’t have to, and that promotes build diversity! So, if any of our skills/trait’s become another necessity, that’s when they become targets for a nerf (buffing/fixing other skills/traits? lol good one)…

Giving on-demand init gain increases the skill ceiling though. Nearly all builds have it in some way or another already. They need to work on making all our weapon sets viable rather than dinking with lackluster trait changes.

Alissah.9281:

Cynz.9437:

i am a thief…what is stability?

You know, that thing you get for 5 seconds when you apply Basilisk Venom or Consume Ectoplasm from a Mesmer?

You realize that requires a specific set of runes to get stability from BV right? Why don’t you mention breaking dagger storm early as well? None of these are viable/reliable methods.