Guild Wars 2

You must have misunderstood me. Thief should definitely be able to stomp with this technique and it’s not fair that it’s being removed.

evilapprentice.6379:

Honestly, everyone talking about the opportunist changes don’t really appear to be taking into account the new base init regen bump.

Even if you aren’t a huge fan of the opportunist change, its hard to argue that its as detrimental as the infiltrators return change – one potentially slows down the init regen of Cs specs a bit, and the Other reduces our tpvp viable weapon sets by 50%, down to one weapon set. Does everyone want to run the same exact weaponset with nigh identical trait setups for the next 3 months?

Quoted for truth. I already run d/p almost exclusively in spvp but I absolutely hate the idea of having no alternative when I want a change of pace.

Do any of you guys even play s/d? A good sword thief will almost always have the return on sword #2 available. If you down someone you’ll have that return available 80%+ of the time. Start the stomp, return, wait till the last second to avoid that daze/knockback and use your 24 second cooldown inf signet to secure it. This is extremely common and you can even do it through walls. So really it only costs 2 initiative and infiltrator signet (but since you’re traiting into signets giving +2 init it’s really only at the cost of a 24 sec cooldown).

If anyone cares to know my opinion, I’m betting the devs didn’t even realize they’d be eliminating this mechanic. They wanted to stop the return from working while stunned and they didn’t see this as an impact until people on these forums alerted them to it.

Thanks for this thread Jon. We don’t get a lot of dev feedback in this forum and we really do appreciate your input. I don’t think I or anyone else here will be able to persuade the balance team to cancel the sword #2 change. Rather, I ask that you all closely watch your internal metrics. If s/d and s/p become largely underplayed ( I predict this will happen) can we please get some changes to make them more viable again?

Currently, s/d needs all the survivability it has to fight successfully. Adding a cast time to the return will reduce the survivability against skilled opponents to a very high degree. The kit’s dps will not be enough to down the opponent before the s/d thief is stomped and forgotten about. If this change goes through s/d thief will need more damage or more survivability through other methods. I’ve been secretly holding out hope that 25/30/0/15/0 might be successful post patch but I still expect s/d to be worse off.

Finally, I currently telestomp all over the place. Sword return + steal/inf sig and porting away and back with the shadowstep utility are both insanely fun and they give a squishy thief a sense of purpose on the battlefield. Please don’t marginalize the impact of losing a mechanic that is just straight up fun to use (I know I said I didn’t think I could convince you but hey I had to try right?).

All in all I think this coming patch is going in the right direction but thief might be taking it in the chops this go around (spvp perspective).

Dude, dude, DUDE! No one is going to respond well to this. Sword/dagger is getting nerfed (it is viewed as superior to dagger mainhand). S/D is accused as being faceroll easy while people are finally realizing that to be a great dagger thief you have to be quite skilled. I like other people’s advice of trying 5v5 hotjoin and speccing very defensively till you start learning how to defend and extend fights against thieves. You won’t learn anything if you build glassy enough to die in a few hits. Thieves are just an easy target to complain about, there are much worse things to be concerned with. I hope you don’t meet one of these soon to be buffed dps guards anytime soon!

Can someone from Anet answer this question: do you plan for sword thieves to be tourney viable after this patch?

If the answer is no then please just come out and say it.

Chicago Jack.5647:

Hype.8032:

spam.

If a person mindlessly spams anything in d/p trickery, they’re bad and they will die or be forced to peel against another good player. There is no direct initiative management beyond trickery 5, infiltrator signet, and crit strikes 15.

Hype.8032:

S/D needs a higher skill ceiling and this isn’t helping it.

Yes it is. Limiting the amount of evades capable is not a new concept. Even people like gutz and supcutie suggest it.

I’d like to educate you on the subject further but I simply don’t have the time unfortunately. The blinds and much higher damage on d/p easily makes up for having less evades. Try playing s/d for the few weeks before the nerf and you might finally understand. Maybe you’ll even make it on the leaderboard with it That’d be pretty sweet!

Yeah I don’t look anymore. I have a 5 button mouse and I’m only really lacking a key for dodge. I have to double tap directional keys to dodge but it’s worked fine so far. I don’t hit any of the F1-4 keys, they’re all remapped closer to home.

Mrbig.8019:

jmatb.6307:

I don’t think S/D is gonna be taken out entirely.

Lyssa, Sig of Agility, and Feline grace still give you plenty of dodges, it’s just that you can’t engage/disengage whenever you want with no consequence with Sword 2.

It’ll still be a tough fight vs. a good S/D player

You don’t understand it seems.

S/D thieves were NOT OP.

A perfectly played S/D thief always had fair match up against engies ( without elixir R ress), NEVER had a chance against hambow wars, fair match up against necros and low chance to win against a spirit ranger.

Obviously at the skill cap.

There’re videos of Ventari (necro) completely owning Sizer ( one of the current top S/D thief both in solo and team queue) and this just to show that even with Inf strike current iteration, the S/D set was barely enough to face current meta builds.

S/D fault was to completely shut down eles, since GS-Staff mesmers can easily win against S/D thieves too ( while common Sword/* was just dead meat, and infact it was a combination of both S/D thieves and condi pressure keeping mesmers out of the meta) and being unfun to play against.

Now at the second stun we will be dead, because even with S/D we’re squishy and get dropped with a single burst.

When i play my necro i already eat alive thieves ( simply because thief is my main and i know its animations/timing) and a single fear is enough to put so much condi pressure on him to eat half his life bar, and thieves are currently able to port away at will.

On 10th december patch, sword thieves will just die at blink, due to the massive condi spam-AoE spam-Stun spam the meta is currently filled of.

+1….. Ele is the only thing that s/d seemed overpowered against and I’ll claim that removing the 2nd boon stolen from LS was enough to fix that issue. That’s ignoring the fact that removing that 2nd boon made fights against guardians impossible. It seems like anet doesn’t know how to balance the sword on thief so they’re just removing it completely.

Chicago Jack.5647:

Hype.8032:

How is that possible if s/d is so faceroll OP/easy? They both reward good play and punish bad.

This really is not hard to understand. One has perma-evade, the other does not. In one you have to be as unpredictable as possible, you have to land your interrupts on important skills and land your steals, you have to use cross-weapon combinations to pull things off effectively, you have to count dodges, you have to know when to go on the offensive and when to go on the defensive. In the other, you have to press 3 for dayz with a few 1+dodge thrown in with a 2 setup if something goes wrong. It is not hard to play s/d for similar reasons why it’s not hard to play a Warrior who doesn’t have to worry about activating his heal skill. Only Warrior is even worse of a cheese offender because he has a higher health pool, more armor, and a potential 3 condition condi clear on burst.

There is NO differentiation between a bad S/D player and a good one. Hopefully these changes WILL introduce some type of differentiation between a good S/D player and a bad one. Hopefully the bad ones will have to peel more often, reducing dps pressure. There are reasons why upper-level players left the game, and S/D theefs are part of that reason.

And d/p has blind/interrupt spam. I got within the top 200 in solo queue using d/p, I know it very well. I also find it a lot easier to fight against warriors with d/p than s/d. It’s not that hard to hit #5 and fight around that small circle. This change won’t make bad thieves peel more (they won’t be able to peel not having the pseudo-stunbreak). Also, you won’t see a difference between good and bad s/d thieves because no one will be playing it. Don’t believe me? I guess we’ll see soon enough.

S/D needs a higher skill ceiling and this isn’t helping it. Making tactical strike and dancing dagger worth using would achieve that though. But hell… that’d be a buff now wouldn’kitten

Josh Davis.6015:

It’s definitely a possibility. We can try to nudge the meta in certain directions with changes, but ultimately it comes down on the players to establish it.

Guards, for example, have less access to condition removal than they did in the previous ‘bunker meta’ because of the fix to Pure of Voice. That said, with the proposed changes in the Dec 10th patch, I think we may see even more teams opt for bunker support outside of guardian. Not because guardian is sub-optimal, but because other professions will be able to fill that roll with varying flavor. (Engineer might be able to debunk points easier than other bunkers, but provides little AoE stability. Engineer support is seeing a buff so we could see some interesting things there as well…)

Also, S/D thief is taking a hit, which was the main build keeping mesmer and elementalist out of the meta for a long time. It’s hard to predict, but I’d like to personally see a more power-orientated meta surface.

/Grouch rambles on a Sunday morning…

Just call it like it is, S/D thief is being taken out of the meta completely.

Chicago Jack.5647:

Excalibur.9748:

Reasons don’t matter

Yes they do matter.

Excalibur.9748:

[The] results indicate D/P + shortbow is now subpar and barely viable for tournament play.

This is SO not true.

Excalibur.9748:

Most of it is because other meta professions are just plain stronger though. Hambow, spirit ranger, condi necro.

Which is being addressed in the patch.

Bottom Line: S/D is boringly easy to play. It’s getting nerfed – hopefully to a state where the good players will be able to sustain pressure and the bad players will have to peel more frequently. On the other hand, d/p shortbow actually takes some skill. It’s not getting touched (other than opportunist). In fact, some say it’s getting a buff.

You’re being elitist. I do better with d/p+sb than s/d+sb in spvp, how is that possible if s/d is so faceroll OP/easy? They both reward good play and punish bad. I’m all for raising the skill ceiling but even the best s/d users will be worse than they were before this coming patch. But then again, where are they? They already re-rolled before this nerf even hit….

Peow peow.2189:

imo infi strike needed this change. It was just to easy to stay alive unless you the player decided to over commit. WIth the change coming to PW S/D could be back in action

This change prevents a thief from securing a safestomp on guardians/rangers/warriors/engineers by using sword 2 to port back then finishing with steal or inf signet. Forget balance for a second and realize that doing that is incredibly fun and losing it makes the game more stale. Even mesmer can do that with staff 2 and it’s port.

This gave me an idea I’d like to see. When stunned, give the player a target-able shadow step on f2, 900 range. Something like a 5-10 second timer before it is no longer available. It is still RNG with the HtC icd but it’s better than the crap they gave us right now.

p/d and d/d got a bit of a buff, d/p got buffed other than perma-stealth abusers. S/D and s/p got absolutely destroyed. Without the sword #2 cast time I’d just be mildly upset with the patch notes. Where are the cool new traits that make more builds viable?

Instead, one of the two builds I’m comfortable playing in solo queue is ruined and I don’t see a new one being created. I won’t re-roll though. I’m either playing thief or I’m not playing at all.

Nah, d/d’s rotation is cnd, wait 3 sec, backstab, 1 autochain, repeat. The opportunist nerf won’t hurt it nearly as much as constant dps builds like anything with swords and blind based d/p builds. D/D is seemingly getting buffed but I think it needs something else like a faster cnd animation.

Dropping from 1.0/s to 0.75/s is a 25% drop
Increasing from 0.75/s to 1.0/s is a 33% increase

O_o

Neoheart.2750:

Lol in all seriousness in its current state I will never use hard to catch which is wat seems to be getting forced on us. Should be called hard to justify.

Hahahaha, this is something I can get behind! I won’t be traiting hard to justify in my s/d build after this patch… I’ll just be shelving it completely.

Viking Jorun.5413:

swinsk.6410:

Assassins reward will only help condi d/d thieves IMO.

How many condi d/d thieves do you see destroying people? Not many because they are terrible at every except farming noobs who can’t dodge or walk out of caltrops.

Hah. Yet you have sPvP in your signature. Let me know what build you use for point bunkering at Bear rank please

D/D condition builds are underrated. People seem to have this snobby attitude towards them because it’s “easy”, which it really isn’t outside of PvE. It takes a lot of skill to master a d/d bleed build, and even more to outperform other skilled players. You can continue acting like only noobs play the build, and I’ll keep playing it, bleeding you to death while your entire team attempts to kill me to take mid the entire match.

I played against a unicorn d/d while playing a tanky s/p build and it was a stalemate. It felt trollish but honestly he played it really well and just bunkered the point effectively. I don’t like bunkers so I haven’t spent much time playing that style. If they ever change d/d into a brawler style build like s/d I’d pick it up.

Do whatever you think is fun Don’t worry about everyone else.

Nerf the OP! Those suggestions are OP!

Narcarsis.5739:

They’re buffing thieves, not nerfing them. Possibly too much.

Mind sharing why you think that way? I’m starting to wonder if 25/30/0/0/15 might be worth taking over 10/30/0/0/30 now.

You know you can go into melee range and spam clusterbomb right? The whole subject is pretty off topic though. Sword will be nerfed to the ground with this change.

Good stuff… it does seem like opportunist is being over nerfed here.

Combo-ing skills with a cast time with instant cast skills has always been something I enjoyed. Thief probably has the most, which is one reason I main it. I don’t really want this profession to spend months in purgatory before anet realizes it needs buffed (and subsequently buffs it way too much).

I think with all the changes my d/p build is getting stronger but I really liked having s/d available for when I was bored and needed a change for a while. I can’t see myself queuing with s/d anymore.

Anet seems to start with an idea, “people don’t like playing against thieves that can continually port away only to come back a second later”. Then, they figure out a way to fix it – add a cast time on sword return. Finally, they wipe their hands off and pat themselves on the back for a job well done.

Nowhere in there is any thought to viability before and after the change. S/D and S/P thieves aren’t even chosen for teams anymore it seems like (I know the last car crash video I saw blu cast had the thief dropped for an extra warrior). They need buffs but they keep getting dropped to lower and lower tiers. Where’s the compensation for the cast time? Does the sword AA chain do 30% more damage now? I bet they really think making hard to catch more available fixes it.

Am I understanding this correctly? With a cast time on sword return we can no longer port away during stomps/finishers and return with another skill like steal. Also pre-casting basi venom before porting out and then back in won’t work either. I hadn’t even considered these things and I was still mad at this change (strictly from the loss of sword’s pseudo-stunbreak).

Anet, please put more thought into changes!

Please remove the cast time on thief sword #2. I don’t think you realize what makes this build viable. Hard to catch is not a good trait, making it easier to get isn’t fixing it. Doing things like fixing sundering strikes and other useless traits is what you should focus on, not removing S/X from spvp.

Zerbo.5381:

Which s/d spec are you referring too exactly? There are a couple and not all of them use just dual s/d. In fact, the dual s/d lost popularity a while ago. I personally use s/d and d/p on my main build, and many others do indeed use shortbow as their OH set. These sets take a lot more skill to be good at than I think you realize. At least that’s the way it has been for me and I’ve tried almost all possible thief builds I’ve seen or could think of. Because of thief’s squishiness, he always has to be dodging if not in stealth with the current meta of aoe ai, condition, stun spamming everywhere. The only exception is black powder, which is only effective in melee range.
How do you use d/p if you don’t rely on blackpowder?
D/p is barely viable (many say it isn’t), and you’re the first I’ve seen in a while saying shortbow is so great as a main weapon. I’m curious why this is, so please share your sb build/tacs. Theoretically, even if you have some amazing build that no one else has been able to make successful yet, why should we then be limited to just that one viable weapon? S/d was the only thing that could effectively keep up with the current meta, and now it’s getting nerfed again. Maybe with other professions’ changes the nerfs won’t have a major effect, but I highly doubt that.

I think he’s just talking about 10/30/0/0/30 d/p + sb. Watch caed play for examples. There are a lot of 1v1’s where she stays in sb the whole time (like against mesmers). New or low skilled thieves don’t realize how strong shortbow can be.

S/D is stupid good right now? Is that why all the s/d thieves in tpvp play warrior? I play d/p trickery based most the time but s/d won’t have the dps to compensate for the nerfs it has received lately. Anet is turning it into more of an arms race build rather than sustain and it doesn’t have the dps to win in that situation. The change to sword #2 is my only real complaint about the changes. There are obvious other complaints like them doing nothing to make other builds viable. Pistol main hand is viable in tpvp now? no? why?

If you look at the amount each weapon set is used then 10/30/0/0/30 thieves really should be described as sbow with d/p backup. Sbow rocks and it’s so much more defensive than d/p in most situations.

So…. is the sword return not a pseudo-stunbreak anymore? I’ll have to see if Mesmer staff #2 got the same treatment.

Try a trickery d/p+sb build, you don’t stealth very often. Blinds and clusterbombs everywhere!

I figure the huge crying masses are doing enough to get warrior nerfed that I don’t need to add my input in very often.

I intentionally avoid Lion’s Arch because it brings my machine to a crawl rather than culling things like it used to. My client also seems to crash if I join a spvp match from the world rather than the mists. The mists is a pretty small area, wouldn’t this just bog it down like LA?

I’m laughing at how this thread is currently directly above the “Warriors are so ridiculously OP” thread hahahaha. I agree with you though, people scream bloody murder over the smallest things.

Now personally, I believe warriors are a bit OP because all the popular specs dish too much damage for how survivable they are. I don’t know the trait layouts for them but I know the mechanics very well (after all, there’s always several of them on each team so I get a lot of practice against them ). As a specific example though, I don’t think it is right that a thief cannot lower a FoTM warrior’s health with shortbow autoattack. Same with the downed autoattack. If a player has a very close fight and gets a warrior down to 5% health he won’t be able to down the warrior while he goes for a stomp. Pretty lame IMO.

evilapprentice.6379:

No, he’s pointing out the myriad flaws in your poor argument full of exaggeration, hyperbole, and outright lies. You don’t like it because it challenges the firmly anchored notions you have, which are incorrect on almost every level. Labeling him a troll if your only escape from having to actually try some of the things he’s suggested and see how very wrong you are. He’s been very calm and polite in tasking you to actually perform the things you’ve claimed are so commonplace that they’re ruining the game and you can’t deliver (because it can’t be done, not because of you specifically).

Your position on thieves in analogous to claiming thieves can fly – it’s not a discussion unless the basic premise is plausible, and yours just isn’t.

Wow, that was fantastic evilapprentice. Nail – Hammer -> BOOM. Needing to exaggerating numbers to make an argument simply proves the argument isn’t valid. I was trying to catch him saying he was exaggerating but he held firm in stating that 99 times out of 100, a thief will get the jump (and this is the spvp forums so that’s the context for that comment). I can only dream of initiating 99% of my encounters with a backstab to an unaware opponent!

EDIT: I don’t really like being called a troll but I’ll gladly accept being called sir, thank you very much and you’re very welcome as well!

Fortus.6175:

Thanks sir

Fortus.6175:

Hype.8032:

snip

WHo would have guess, a person playing more than one class, one build, right? Have you thought that maybe, just maybe, I dont play tanky guardian all the time? Is it even justifiable to hit 9-10k on a class with 11k hp, even if you are an assassin? No.

I dont care if the thief blows in about 2-3 hits, most of the time they stealth too quickly to be able to do anything about it anyways. I dont want more rock/scissor/paper gameplay. I want interactions! I dont want a game where the first one to jump on the other wins, and right now, given the lack of counters to stealth, a thief will have the jump on you 99% of the time.

No sir, this is not healthy for any game, I wont name any more games, but I can guarantee you that any non-FPS game where battle is decided by whoever gets the first jump or by rock/paper/scissor will get as much esport attentions as hello kitty.

And like I said, once again, you only want to take into consideration “top” players, which might not even represent the “skilled” bunch, nor the majority. Should we ignore the people in a democracy and let a selected few have the saying? No, it is called dictatorship, because I can assure you (been born in a dictatorship myself) they dont know whats best!

A 1000 ranked person has a much say in the matter as a non-1000, learn to accept that, or live to see that you will only see 1000 players in sPvP, which is [sadly] becoming a reality already.

Wow you played the dictatorship card! That’s awesome! That’s an auto-win move in my book.

The numbers you’re basing your argument on are wrong so I find fault with it. Fix them and we can have a deeper conversation. Annnnddddd….. since you asked, I think it is VERY JUSTIFIABLE AND DESIRED for an extreme glass cannon to be able to VERY QUICKLY dispatch of another extreme glass cannon. It is extremely fun knowing you have to be so aware of your surroundings to stay alive. It is very rewarding when you do it right. For people that don’t like living on the edge there are more balanced and even bunker builds available to them. This game is fast paced and it is awesome because of it.

Cheers!

P.S. I don’t think you understand what 99% means. That means 99 times out of a 100 fyi. You just claimed that out of 100 engagements the thief will have the jump 99 times. Four horned unicorn this time?

Fortus.6175:

Nope, guardian here, 15k hp, 2.7k toughness almost 2.8k, dont have screenshot but I have definitely been hit for 8-9k BS, and 5-6k HS, on my ele 9-10k in valkiry (ele in valkiri has 11k hp) and 10-11k BS on zerker are normal sightings too.

So the highest HS you’ve seen on your guard is 6k? Were you not claiming a guaranteed 7-8k crit in an earlier post? A 9k BS on a guardian in spvp is like seeing a 3 horned unicorn (think about that for a second). A trickery based d/p thief in spvp (this is one very small step away from being maxed thief dps) will hit that guardian for 5-6k BS assuming it crits and hits from behind. Finally, why are you talking about the low ele health pool? My thief has that same health pool with that gear. Are you claiming ele burst isn’t as high as a thief? O_o I sure hope you’re not.

Fortus.6175:

No, I wont bother to climb a ladder to prove my point, so either take my word

I don’t take your word for it. Why would I when you’re spreading misinformation around? Most people know better but newer people might actually believe you!

When you construct your arguments on a solid foundation based on fact they carry a lot more weight.

That’s some fast talking! It was fun to watch.

Fortus.6175:

Hype.8032:

The great thing about these forums is that everyone can voice their opinion as long as it’s not breaking the forum’s rules. What I challenge people to do is to look up the stats on the people making suggestions on balance. Try something like gwshack to see a person’s history on the leader board. Then, decide of you trust someone’s opinion about spvp balance by knowing their rank. Finally, if they’re not ranked it means they have not completed 11 games of tpvp and/or solo queue. Knowledge is power

FYI, in case anyone cares, thieves don’t have guaranteed 7-8k HS in spvp.

Cheers!

Disregarding the opinion of non-top-100 players is another thing that kills many games. Just because person has decided not to invest time into grinding for a leaderscore place doesnt mean they dont know what they are doing. Personally i find that the game is so unbalanced that it boils down to whoever has the strongest specc rather than skills. The fact that there was no ele in the last MLG and there was only 1 ele in the other pro scene (which costed them the game) , coupled with the fact that there was around 3x% zoo pet ranger (more than the combined ratio of 3 classes) tells you a whole lot about this! The more you know

Yes, certainly they dont hit 7-8k everytime, sometimes it doesnt crit and it hits for about 2-3k, but lets be honest, do you REALLY think it takes all that much skill to take a 15k hp class with 2.8k toughness down to 0hp in less than (not exaggerating here) 1.5 seconds? 9k BS followed by 3k HS and a 5k HS (which is overkill) for which you cant see at all or use Aegis nor any other block, and even if you dodge one the next HS will come shortly after. Do you really believe so? Cmon! Lets get real. Sure is fun for the thief, but as an observer if I see this the first thing Im going to do is mouse over the [x] button on the tab. If I enter a match and see a ranger using #1 skill and running, see the poor ele blow in a sec without any notice, after said ele stunlocked the ranger the entire time but still the ele dies a horrific death, yes, i (and many others) will hit the [x].

You really have to take those things into considerations. Fights that last too long are boring, but fights that last less than 1 seconds are even more boring.

I didn’t say ignore all opinions of those not in top 100. What I did say is that you can tell a lot about someone’s skill by their place on the leaderboard. I question the spvp knowledge of anyone not even ranked. It only takes 11 games to be ranked and many people get into the top 1000 with those first 11 games. It is not a grind at all and it’s quite exciting.

Fortus.6175:

Yes, certainly they dont hit 7-8k everytime, sometimes it doesnt crit and it hits for about 2-3k, but lets be honest, do you REALLY think it takes all that much skill to take a 15k hp class with 2.8k toughness down to 0hp in less than (not exaggerating here) 1.5 seconds? 9k BS followed by 3k HS and a 5k HS (which is overkill)

I’m sorry but you are in fact exaggerating there. On an opponent with 2.8k toughness that thief will be hitting a BS for ~5k, which might not crit or hits in the front so average is closer to 3k. Following that BS with a HS is a very bad decision but if you chose to do it you’d hit for 3k if you crit, another one would be another 3k probably. So, an opponent (2.8k toughness) that stood perfectly still for a period of time that is well over a reasonable reaction time, would have been hit for 9-11k. Their heal should then be enough to take them nearly back to full health. In reality, that opponent would have dodged or pop’d a defensive skill after the BS and avoided most the damage. You are flat out wrong about this but I don’t want to discourage you to keep learning and improve your knowledge.

If you still disagree with me then I’d like to issue this friendly challenge. I think it takes a lot of skill to play thief well enough to get to the top 1000. However, your post seems to indicate thief is easy to be successful with. So here it is: make a thief if you haven’t yet and play enough solo queue games to get ranked. Then we can review the results and discuss further how hard or difficult it was.

Thanks for the discussion!

I really don’t think the strongest profession needs more buffs to an extremely useful and very powerful elite skill. Other people said it already, it has such a huge impact in a fight that it has to have some skill in its use, even with a long CD. Let’s instead talk about making basilisk venom more than just a way to proc lyssa.

The nerf threads will continue until the nerf comes. Look at thieves, they got a full year worth of nerfs and the threads still come up. I’d make my own nerf warrior thread if every aspect of it hadn’t already been covered in other posts. They have too much sustain on 1v1 sidepoint fights.

So this thread is really about warrior and not the title? O_o you tricked meeeeeeee.

Every 5v5 I go into has at least 4 warriors. I’d like more variety please. When was the last time you had a 5v5 with 4+ ele’s?

The great thing about these forums is that everyone can voice their opinion as long as it’s not breaking the forum’s rules. What I challenge people to do is to look up the stats on the people making suggestions on balance. Try something like gwshack to see a person’s history on the leader board. Then, decide of you trust someone’s opinion about spvp balance by knowing their rank. Finally, if they’re not ranked it means they have not completed 11 games of tpvp and/or solo queue. Knowledge is power

FYI, in case anyone cares, thieves don’t have guaranteed 7-8k HS in spvp.

Cheers!

I think the loss of the extra boon stolen from LS along with warriors/necros being scaled back will be enough to get ele back into the meta. I’m not familiar enough with ele to say that for certain but do you think ele is really that far away from being viable?

Like others said, warriors are OP but not grossly OP. I don’t mind them too much but I hate having 4+ in a solo queue match and 6+ in hotjoin. I know it’s because it’s FoTM, but the overwhelming number of warriors in spvp right now should be statement enough to how strong they are.

You made some pretty good points. I don’t like one-shot mechanics but I also think that every build should be able to be beaten 1v1 (given enough time). The idea that a bunker should need more than 1 person to take down really annoys me, I just don’t find that type of gameplay fun. If you increase time to kill then I agree with you that you have to put extra objectives to keep the meta from being a very static/boring thing, but I’d hope instead that we bring in the extremes (burst to bunker) a bit. I want a roamer to be able to take down a bunker, even if it takes several minutes.

My point was that those 30 points into CS are MANDATORY. It limits potential builds by giving 40 effective points to be used. I agree ele isn’t in a good spot. I worry about how Anet is planning to fix it though. D/D ele already destroys dagger main hand thieves and the only reason it hasn’t been a problem lately is because S/D thieves kept them out of the meta. I’m betting the ‘fix’ for one profession will just push another out of the meta. It might have already begun with LS only stealing one boon.

sorrow.2364:

Veteran Oakheart.4035:

Since GW1, Anet want people to use their “special trait line”, the one that impact more the playstyle of your profession (Attunement recharge for elementalists), this was quite the same before in almost all the GW1 templates you had to a decent amount of attribute points to fit the meta.

But i don’t think this is a shame at all, because it’s meant to be this way, if you have a specific class mechanic, which make your strengh most of the time, you want to improve it.

BTW i used my brain a bit lately and what is a real shame is that sigil of Battle work on attunement swapping, but not rune of the Warrior.

Well, then what’s the point of giving players choices while you implicitly force them to spend 30 points into Arcana?

Also, it isn’t the same in every profession. Thief, for instance, isn’t forced to pick Trickery at all.

Be honest now sorrow, when was the last time you saw a competitive thief in spvp not using 30 points into critical strikes? Thieves can’t be tanky even with defensive traits and without 30 into CS they do pathetic damage, so they’re forced into that traitline. It’s the same with most professions….